DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Raging Wishbone]

@Mod Can we please prod ortohoops, Zaphod, Trostsky, frog Dodge, nyballs, ojanda, polkaa and yos/nuw...

I keep trying to think of things to motivate people to post, living things up for this game up (sorry I am flat) and it all come back to this TOWN (and to a lesser degree scum) are refraining from poting to save precious pages.... and you KNOW I would just rather mass claim, or spam or whatever to get this game moving more... and yone else wannna help... (of those who don't want me lynched? lol)

[Raging Wishbone]

...and woot PAGE 12.... well if this makes anyone feel any better me WW (who has made the last 20 or so RW posts is on vla) and the esteemed and very profound MR. RR will be doing our posting for a bit.

Meh, although I have no doubt he knows who the scum is already!

[Ortohoops]

Posting to avoid prod

@ Yoswen (263): you speculate about a possible link between me and shaft.ed but you seem to agree there was no indication his motivations were scummy until he died. This is contradictory. If he was using pro-town logic and happened to be scum and I have also used pro-town logic, this does not entail a link between us.

The post seemed like an emotional over-reaction to my post, except I don't understand why my attack on RW would make you emotional or angry. One possible expliation could be a link between you and RW.

Do scum typically act aggressively and emotionally to you voting their scumbuddies? Not in my experience. Also I'm not aware of where I/we acted emotionally from memory.

@ RW as far as I can see your vote on J-Scope is weak. Please change to Trotsky

Dude is tht your pic you looks like a wanna be band member for Modern English or the Cure... gah try harder there too. Wink

Uh...that's Matt Damon

If anybody else has figured out the mechanic of this game please enlighten us all. Smile

Figured out the mechanic? What?

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Here is your problem and here is something EVERY OTHER TOWNIE HAS DONE and needs to ask themself? Isn't the first thing you do when returning from VLA to ask your PARTNERS opinion on the game?

I don't think Kaleidoscope is very invested in the game, and from what Jahudo said, it doesn't seem like he intends to change that. Why would he feel obligated to ask about his opinions if he doesn't even intend on playing?

Dude, you stated YOU contacted him and HE did NOT contact you

He posted that on June first at 12:34 eastern. The timestamp in the response is on June first at 15:50 eastern. Where's the contradiction?

I dont think Hoops has been back since Alpha and since you made it perfectly clear Screencaps can be faked...why bother posting one? Perhaps cause your scum buddy SexEd told you (or in other words rewarded your comment with praise) it was the way to denegrate and subsequently win any conversatiosn regarding im/qts/pm, ect...?

You asked him to post the conversations, and yet you are attacking him for abiding?

Unvote

Vote: Trotsky

Not entirely opposed to this wagon. Useless tunneling on Zaphod and general lack of depth in his posts. We also are running low on posts. I'd still prefer a Raging Wishbone lynch, but I do not believe it will happen.

[Raging Wishbone]

@ RW as far as I can see your vote on J-Scope is weak. Please change to Trotsky

Huh....

Spam, spam the magical fruit the more we eat the more WHAT...... FINALLY page 12, so we get an sk kill and 1 of 2 Scum killers (Trostsky, Zaphod and or Jscope)......

Uh...that's Matt Damon

See, I KNEW it all along...Bourne aka Matt although sanctioned by the Government is a Serial Killer! lol

Figured out the mechanic? What?

Figured out the mechanic of the game to make it move just a tad quicker...at this pace we don't finish this game until 2010, lol

Meh, ok, fine

VOTE: TROTSKY

Still WW here, RR takes over soon.

[Raging Wishbone]

ROFL VOTE: TROTSKY

*hands NYBAlls and Ortohoops long Island Ice teas.

[Ojando]

My partner has been VLA and I’ve wanted to give her as much chance to chat to me prior to posting, especially given the lack of new content from anyone other than RW.

Please reread my last five or six comments and the subsequent replies which I wrote above.. if you dont want to lynch him, then please nevermind and lynch who ever you want. Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.

No, if you wish to make a fresh accusation like that, you need to state pretty clearly why. Not doing this strikes me as scummy, as when questioned you still don’t provide it, merely point me towards some vague posts, none of which answer my question. If I'm being an idiot and missing something, then quote what I've missed rather than just saying 'hey go back and read'.

MOST, Excellent comment, why did Jscope not send his partner a run down of post as it is what YOU stated you would do?

As stated, I would send it to my partner, but I could understand people just posting it in the thread. My main point was that I would not seek my partners advice prior to rereading. As to why you’re attacking someone for posting in the thread when you’re seemingly hellbent on getting people prodded, this makes no sense, you’re playing on both sides of the fence. It takes time to coordinate conversation within a hydra, especially if you're in my boat and in vastly different timezones.

@Ojanda...sorry genius in the future I will not expect you to read and repost every important screencap of the game! Err, then again please dont ak me to POST something YOU already have or SHOULD have read!

If you wish to make a linkage case against someone, state it clearly, otherwise you’re just throwing the accusation out there with nothing to back it up. I stated very clearly that I'd reread, and I have, more than once, I still can't see a direct accusation of this, or even an indirect one. If it's there, please quote it or give me a post number. Obviously given your vehemence you must know where you or someone else has said it, shouldn't be hard for you to tell me where.

Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.

Our vote is on Zaphod and I think we’ve made clear why. As to the SK, I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking for to differentiate between scum and SK, but my best guess is you, RW, if there is one (do we know if there is?). Someone pointed out earlier that constant posting of private chats runs a large risk of outing power-roles. To me, there’s no greater risk for scum in this, they don’t really care if they’re outed as scum or as scum power-roles, either way they’re outed. Scum would obviously be faking these logs anyway, and are unlikely to out themselves as power-roles in faked logs. For town, this would be pretty bad. So while I think it could help scum role-hunt, I also think that an SK possibly has the most to gain from this, get rid of power-roles with ease.

I have the same gut reaction to your mass-claim request, but I haven’t had a chance to think about or talk to my partner about the implications at this stage. While I'm not against it, and I think it'd help town, I think it would also be a good play by an SK to get a good idea of the power-roles out there.

Would love a vote-count.

[Raging Wishbone]

My partner has been VLA and I’ve wanted to give her as much chance to chat to me prior to posting, especially given the lack of new content from anyone other than RW.

Please reread my last five or six comments and the subsequent replies which I wrote above.. if you dont want to lynch him, then please nevermind and lynch who ever you want. Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.

No, if you wish to make a fresh accusation like that, you need to state pretty clearly why. Not doing this strikes me as scummy, as when questioned you still don’t provide it, merely point me towards some vague posts, none of which answer my question. If I'm being an idiot and missing something, then quote what I've missed rather than just saying 'hey go back and read'.

MOST, Excellent comment, why did Jscope not send his partner a run down of post as it is what YOU stated you would do?

As stated, I would send it to my partner, but I could understand people just posting it in the thread. My main point was that I would not seek my partners advice prior to rereading. As to why you’re attacking someone for posting in the thread when you’re seemingly hellbent on getting people prodded, this makes no sense, you’re playing on both sides of the fence. It takes time to coordinate conversation within a hydra, especially if you're in my boat and in vastly different timezones.

@Ojanda...sorry genius in the future I will not expect you to read and repost every important screencap of the game! Err, then again please dont ak me to POST something YOU already have or SHOULD have read!

If you wish to make a linkage case against someone, state it clearly, otherwise you’re just throwing the accusation out there with nothing to back it up. I stated very clearly that I'd reread, and I have, more than once, I still can't see a direct accusation of this, or even an indirect one. If it's there, please quote it or give me a post number. Obviously given your vehemence you must know where you or someone else has said it, shouldn't be hard for you to tell me where.

Just tell me you are certain who the scum or sk is and I may follow you but at this point I see no better lynch.

Our vote is on Zaphod and I think we’ve made clear why. As to the SK, I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking for to differentiate between scum and SK, but my best guess is you, RW, if there is one (do we know if there is?). Someone pointed out earlier that constant posting of private chats runs a large risk of outing power-roles. To me, there’s no greater risk for scum in this, they don’t really care if they’re outed as scum or as scum power-roles, either way they’re outed. Scum would obviously be faking these logs anyway, and are unlikely to out themselves as power-roles in faked logs. For town, this would be pretty bad. So while I think it could help scum role-hunt, I also think that an SK possibly has the most to gain from this, get rid of power-roles with ease.

I have the same gut reaction to your mass-claim request, but I haven’t had a chance to think about or talk to my partner about the implications at this stage. While I'm not against it, and I think it'd help town, I think it would also be a good play by an SK to get a good idea of the power-roles out there.

Would love a vote-count.

You just cracked this game Ojanda...I was born scum or accorded scum for this game...one of the two... I will let you figure out which...

But I am gonna give ya a little hint (Sarcasm aside)...we have until page 23 until our next action period! That won't happen until 2010, the way this game is moving! Do you care I am trying to pick up the pace...go pick on somone else, lol...

I have no linkage case Bro... I am gonna vote for Trotsky (casue it aint the Rofl I played with in Heveans gate)....

I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?

If I had my dithers I would vote jscope...but yaeah he puts up a good defense...agreed....

At this point I am sticking with a Trotsky Vote!

[Yosariwen]

Posting to avoid prod

@ Yoswen (263): you speculate about a possible link between me and shaft.ed but you seem to agree there was no indication his motivations were scummy until he died. This is contradictory. If he was using pro-town logic and happened to be scum and I have also used pro-town logic, this does not entail a link between us.

It's not contradictory. One common pattern amoung scum is that they both try to push the town in the same direction, but they try to do so without directly interacting with each other or quoting each other much. You and shaft.ed fit that pattern.

I'm not claiming it's 100% conclusive or anything on it's own, but it is a type of behavior that increases the chances of you being scum with him.

The post seemed like an emotional over-reaction to my post, except I don't understand why my attack on RW would make you emotional or angry. One possible expliation could be a link between you and RW.

Do scum typically act aggressively and emotionally to you voting their scumbuddies? Not in my experience. Also I'm not aware of where I/we acted emotionally from memory.

(shrug) Anyone can get agressive and emotional if they thought things were smoothly going their way, and then suddenly there's a bump in the road. In this case, if you and your scumbuddy seemed to be on the way to easily lynching a townie, then all of a sudden I came out of nowhere and went after your scumbuddy instead, then sure, if you're scum from RW that could make you frustrated, and agressive towards me.

And that was the vibe I got from your (ortolan's) post 191.

[J-Scope]

I am very sure Trotsky is at L-1 (with votes from ZMD, Ortohoops, Frog Dodge, nyballs, and RW). That and page 12, and no other wagon being near L-1 (RW is L-3 I think) tells me it’s probably time for Trots to claim in his next post.

I don’t understand this:

a cursory glance up the page after this shaft.elvis death gives me a warm fuzzy about zaphod's chances of being a scumpartner.

Was this answered somewhere that I can't find?

Me and Ojanda agreed on the first thing we would do when we returned from vla with our partner.

I’m just speculating here but K-Scope probably hadn’t read anything when he thought he was going to return, and when he saw the walls of text he knew this game wasn’t his style, and he didn’t have time to read up, so he quit again. Maybe someone can confirm K-Scope's attitude towards walls of text.

Dude is tht your pic you looks like a wanna be band member for Modern English or the Cure... gah try harder there too.

It’s Kevin Bacon. My Jahudo avatar shows Kevin Bacon holding up a plate of crispy bacon. What can I say, I do what the GD memes tell me.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Just checking in to say that I'm pleased with the Trotsky wagon. Furthermore, Trotsky's lukewarm reaction doesn't sit well for a townie, increasing my confidence that he's scum.

[Trotsky]

whatever happens here doesn't change the fact that dgb went on some stupid cross-game whiny rampage at me lasting months because she can't handle when someone is suspicious of her in more than one game at a time. i hope you don't act like a petulant child in your day to day life too.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

whatever happens here doesn't change the fact that dgb went on some stupid cross-game whiny rampage at me lasting months because she can't handle when someone is suspicious of her in more than one game at a time. i hope you don't act like a petulant child in your day to day life too.

I see this as a confession of guilt.

This is action phase - 10 post.

Hammer please.

[Trotsky]

thats all right maybe someone here will have the brains to lynch zaphod after us

[Frog Dodging]

I gotta be honest here, this post will be mostly filler. I don't have anything to say, other than the fact that trotsky has used their opportunity to claim and should now be lynched. But I have no desire to be prodded, despite the fact that for various reasons neitehr me nor my partner are fully able to pay attention to this game atm. Please be patient with us.

Oh! I have been reminded to say that RW asked for a screenshot from J-scope, then attacked him for posting a screenshot - though honestly, that's just as likely to be sheer stupidity.

We have a low level suspicion of nyballs due to his suspicion list - he picked two of the top four suspets and his partner picked the other two, so all in all he's willing to lynch any of them. He blames poor communication for the discrepancy in his suspicions, but this is not a good excuse: it really isn't hard to find

some

to communicate. Use PMs if you must. Besides which, Kison is p. technically literate, he ought to be able to set up a quicktopic or something. We're much more suspicious of zmd, and below that trotsky. Worth noting but nothing more.

Waiting for a hammer/reveal.

[Ortohoops]

I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?

That is not a reason to not vote her at all. I equally dislike being viewed as scum when I'm town but I'm not going to use that as leverage or expect anyone else to go easy on me because of it, and I wouldn't treat someone lighter as a result. That is not to say I think Zaphod is scum.

Why has Trotsky not claimed yet? As per my count he is on L-2 not L-1 but I

might

be wrong. More votes on the rabbit of the non-raging variety please.

[Trotsky]

i missed this little nugget the first time around i guess

I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?

lynch all lurkers mafia

amnesia mafia

these are just some of the games i assume dgb was actually referring to as her "reason to leave mafiascum forever." dgb being the classy and sportsmanlike lady she is would not refer to ongoing games in a rant about leaving the site.

[PoketheAlpaca]

I'm back from V/la. Time to get a fresh look on this game and then see what tajo's got.

@ortohoops

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54#1691354
In post 254
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 46#1695746
I responded to each of your points on why you believed PtA to be independantly scummy. Why have you not directly responded to that post? I also kinda like yos's points about your interactions with SWSWC.

SWSWC's view of you here:

Orto

Your back and forth with Yos is stifling game conversation. While I feel your points are valid, you're sidetracking discussion which is antitown. I also don't like that you feel the need to reply to every single point against you. Do you still find PtA most likely scum? If so is Yos a likely buddy or a misguided townie?

Orto scummy here. SWSSC agress that he has valid points but also he is called antitown. The last two questions feel fabricated.

doesn't sit well we me or tajo

_________________

I'm also really not liking ZMD and RW atm. I can see how protections and blocks sent pregame can muddy the water but their insistance on Frogdodge being SK solely for a sentence taken way out of context is bad. I don't see that part as a valid case on FD worth pushing.

Posts 274-276 by RW really bother me aswell. Each one doesn't seem to individually add much to the game. I think they should have waited and combined those 3 posts at the very least.

I don't like the idea of modkills because I can see how any player can feel encouraged to lurk with the game mechanics. Also, from a moral standpoint, I'd rather eliminate scum the normal way then try to get the mod's actions to work toward our side like RW outlined earlier. I'm pretty sure Adel would put a stop to something like that.

_________________

Who has played with Kaleidoscope before and can tell me if he’s the time of player to leave for a month then come back and post without telling me?

I have played with k-scope numerous times, mostly on IRC. K-scope's playstyle is that of a lurkish wagon hopper. He does this as any alignment, jumps on a big wagon and sees reactions that come out of it. He once had a sig that said something like "I am capable of bringing the worst out of people, not to actually play mafia". His playstyle is generally that of watch what happens and He rarely scumhunts or brings up big cases on players otherwise. He isn't the verbose type. During alpha k-scope posted without hammering ortohoops at one point. K-scope could have won that game for scum right then but didn't so he was obv not paying attention or following anything.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 20#1671020
Considering his general low activity sitewide I don't think he's paying much attention to anything right now so I'm willing to believe he is busy real life wise. And I got no problem just playing with jahudo.

_________________

Our vote is on Zaphod and I think we’ve made clear why. As to the SK, I’m not entirely sure what I’m looking for to differentiate between scum and SK, but my best guess is you, RW, if there is one

(do we know if there is?).

Yep. Somebody killed SWSWC. And there can't be any vigs since there already was one SK. Rules pretty much gaurantee there is another SK and they're the one that took out SWSWC.

_________________

I took a look at some of the views SWSWC had on Trotsky.

The Trotsky/ A&B interactions are a bit off as Kinglullaby pointed out. I'm not sure I'm buying Trotsky's defense that he thought A&B was mafia protecting a scumbuddy. Why would mafia claim vig/SK outing themselves to a killing role?

<snip>

At this point I'm not liking Trotsky or PtA. I'd like more pressure on the former, but have a clearer read on the latter. So let's do both, we've got all they lynches we want.

Trotsky

Your answer to my querry is lacking.

the vig claim would obviously be stupid as mafia, it was from zaphod's initial ignorance of the a+b wagon that we suspected her, and the sudden switch and hard push on it implied hard bussing--which we would expect dgbscum to do in such a case.

This still doesn't address why you would then ask A&B to kill Zaphod. At that point in time you knew A&B was very unlikely mafia, you just admitted as such.

If you don't see you're name in bold tags here you aren't posting enough. Get off your ass and post.

I don't know if Tajo's view of them has changed but I believe there is evidence of a possible connection between Trot and SWSWC like some other players have pointed out. More importantly we are also at page 12 and Trotsky has given up his right to claim 3 times while at L-1 (ZMD, orto, FD, kinglulliby, RW = 5 so the next vote is a lynch with 6). Refusal to claim when given the oportunity is scummy as hell. A couple of the Last posts feel like scum accepting the guilt.



I'll drop it like its hot!

Unvote, Vote: Trotsky

We can lynch ortohoops and any other suspicions Tajo agrees with me on later.

[Ortohoops]

PTA: I largely stopped discussing you because of the implications of SSWC's flip. He was tunneling on you ergo you can't be scum with him therefore you are not mafia. Therefore you also cannot be Yoswen's partner. If you are scum you are an SK.

In reference to 254,

From memory the argument over Zaphod was a fairly minor point anyway, I can see Plum commenting on something just as it occurred to her during her re-read anyway.

Not sure what your last sentence refers to since J-dodge was not scum in Alpha.

I meant J-Scope, sorry.

This point is also in relation to how some of hoopla's post could be seen as fluff while you went on the accuse others of fluff.

I really, really have already dealt with this. I said some of what she said might be construed as fluff, and she should have been more careful. However you're comparing apples with oranges. She asked various meta/pregame questions, never did she post anything with no content. The people I attacked posted absolutely no content and did it on more than one occasion. And, again, it was two different people- she made the posts which might wrongly be construed as fluff, I attacked other people for doing so. Additionally in your case not only were you posting fluff but you were hypocritically attacking other people for doing so. The differences were:

1) Hoops "fluff posts" weren't fluff in the same way.
2) Hers didn't have the same frequency.
3) You were actually attacking other people strongly for doing it while doing it yourself.
4) It was Hoops that did it, not me.

Re-reading Hoops early posts I think they were a bit deliberately abrasive and maybe not well thought-out because of the attacks they could leave us open to. I don't see how they could have a scum agenda behind them though, she is drawing a lot of attention to us by both her comments and by the way she is posting in light of the rules.

SWSWC's view of you here:

Orto

Your back and forth with Yos is stifling game conversation. While I feel your points are valid, you're sidetracking discussion which is antitown. I also don't like that you feel the need to reply to every single point against you. Do you still find PtA most likely scum? If so is Yos a likely buddy or a misguided townie?

Orto scummy here. SWSSC agress that he has valid points but also he is called antitown. The last two questions feel fabricated.

doesn't sit well we me or tajo

That's great. Why?

[Sando]

But I am gonna give ya a little hint (Sarcasm aside)...we have until page 23 until our next action period! That won't happen until 2010, the way this game is moving! Do you care I am trying to pick up the pace...go pick on somone else, lol...

I’m not attacking you for the prods singularly, I’m attacking you for your stance on hydra communication combined with your prods. You seem to want people to take their time and discuss things within their hydra, yet are prodding people every chance you get. I think you’re setting up a lose/lose situation for people, where if they post too quick they get attacked (see your attack on J-scope), and if they don’t post quick enough they get prodded (and you’ve stated you want them mod-killed).

I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?

Ok, so all a scum has to do to convince you they’re town is to say so… Or was it the emotional appeal (a lovely scum trait) that convinced you she was town?

thats all right maybe someone here will have the brains to lynch zaphod after us

I understand why Trotsky’s posts look like a scum giving up, I had the same reaction initially. But it doesn’t really make sense given this statement. If he’s scum, he knows we’ll ignore his ‘lynch zaphod’, if he flips town, we’re wrong thinking his post is scum giving up. Only way both of these works is if he’s scum and distancing himself from his scumbuddy. I guess we’ll find out now that he’s been hammered.

Oh! I have been reminded to say that RW asked for a screenshot from J-scope, then attacked him for posting a screenshot - though honestly, that's just as likely to be sheer stupidity.

Personally I think he’s been creating setups where you can’t help but fail all the way through, see my first point.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Trotsky was a SK.

It is now Twilight.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

i missed this little nugget the first time around i guess

I CANT vote ZAPHOD (Although my oarner wanted too)...maybe you can but I wont because she WROTE in this BETA game the "reason she was leaving mafiascum forever was because of being accussed of being scum when she was TOWN?"... I mean don't that mean nothing to you?

lynch all lurkers mafia

amnesia mafia

these are just some of the games i assume dgb was actually referring to as her "reason to leave mafiascum forever." dgb being the classy and sportsmanlike lady she is would not refer to ongoing games in a rant about leaving the site.

FTR, I believe I complained about certain players thinking I'm "scum in every game." I don't recall commenting on my actual alignment in any of these games.

In any event - my read was correct. Unfortunately, it'll be difficult to search for linkages with a SK.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of scum on Trotsky's wagon, because beyond gut reads, there wasn't much of a case, roflcopter's habit of lurking as scum gave him away.

Trotsky wagon: ZMD, Ortohoops, Frog Dodge, nyballs, RW, Pokethe Alpaca

I'm very sad not to be on that list, but paradoxically I'd be delighted to vote any player that is on it. How 'bout that.

[J-Scope]

Now that the second SK is gone I'm having trouble finding room for Alpacascum; I still don't think he is mafia with shaft.ed.

RW is my top suspect and I'll re-present a case on him.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of scum on Trotsky's wagon, because beyond gut reads, there wasn't much of a case, roflcopter's habit of lurking as scum gave him away.

Do you think the mafia went for the trotsky lynch because they believed in rofl's habit of lurking as scum? Why could that be more of a scum motive than a town one? Also, how many is a lot of scum?

paradoxically I'd be delighted to vote any player that is on it. How 'bout that.

I think you could be a little pickier. What about the 3 people not on the wagon, would you vote for any of them?

[Ortohoops]

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of scum on Trotsky's wagon, because beyond gut reads, there wasn't much of a case, roflcopter's habit of lurking as scum gave him away.

I disagree with the conclusion because I disagree with the premise that "there wasn't much of a case". FYI I have played several games with rofl as town previously- Lynch All Lurkers, Hunchback of Notre Dame and RealTime Mafia - in all he was extremely aggressive. I also saw a bit of a game where he was an SK which he got nominated for a scummy for, perhaps won it but I can't recall how he played that game. Anyways, in this and Alpha he played totally different (granted it's only one half of the hydra); which is why he got vigged in that and lynched in this. I have also seen him comment that he finds it harder to play as scum. Essentially it's very hard to fake such aggressiveness which is a stalwart of his town play, when scum. I don't actually think you're scummy for pushing this argument because it's counterintuitive anyway (and it's the same thing PTA attacked you for on A&B) and you're drawing attention to yourself by brazenly saying "I wish I was on this wagon, I did have a gut read on rofl but the people who did vote him are opportunistic scum". I do however think a position on the wagon is a null-tell if anything.

Although, to be fair, Zmd is a fantastic lynch and he was on the wagon. His main behaviour this game has been lurking, taking issue with semantics, lurking; with a side of active-lurking. Also stuff like insisting Death the Hogfather is still one of his suspects in 224 even though he had long been replaced. Lazy scum. Read his replies, they're all pretty much contentless or bad OMGUSes on Frog Dodging.

Vote: Zmd

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

@ Jscope: I only said I'd be "delighted" to vote an opportunistic player on the Trotsky wagon. I said nothing about the players off the wagon. Is that a problem for you? Are your scumpals on the wagon?

@ Ortohoops: yes, the meta read was quite unambiguous. However, not all players on the wagon had this meta read, did they? Those may be opportunistic scum.

Let's see where this goes:

vote: Zmd