DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Raging Wishbone]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

Our protection was submitted before the game started. We picked some of the most well know names because we felt that is who scum would target with the nk. I will have to go back and read the exchange, but whether or not it was I or Rr who made that vote doesnt matter because a Doctors protection does not stop a lynch. In otherowrds, we have Poke protected right now, if he does soemthing scummy, I will have no problem voting for him.

[Zmd]

Not even close to addressing my point.

[PoketheAlpaca]

@Ortohoops,

please respond to this:

Freaking huge post wrote:

1) Hoops "fluff posts" weren't fluff in the same way.
2) Hers didn't have the same frequency.

I'll admit there was some level of difference in terms of frequency and what the posts were about but I still saw that as somewhat fluff.

4) It was Hoops that did it, not me.

Ortolan and hoops have the same role and are the same player. This point is mute. You could just talk to your partner about it and see what they may be thinking. Have you spoken with them recently or are you pretty much playing the game all by yourself now, kinda what Jahudo is doing in terms of J-scope?

Re-reading Hoops early posts I think they were a

bit deliberately abrasive

and maybe not well thought-out because of the attacks they could leave us open to. I don't see how they could have a scum agenda behind them though, she is drawing a lot of attention to us by both her comments and by the way she is posting in light of the rules.

Is this in cocern to what could be seen as fluff or is this in regards to how she thought scum might avoid posting fluff at all costs? I'm not sure which of those you perscieve as diliberatly abrasive nor do I understand why you think it was dileberately without a context clarification.

Assuming you are discussing how she thought scum would avoid fluff earlier on, the only scum agenda I could percieve there is that by getting townies to attack in the direction of non-fluff posters constantly, players may feel encouraged to post often as a result to avoid attack. This would length the thread/game and help the scum. It is a bit of a complicated agenda though so if she is town she unlikly considered this as a possibility. The alternative to this possible agenda is that she truly thought A&B was scum for avoiding of fluff and pretty much the entire wagon on A&B didn't see it as that from the cases laid out. This line of thought brings 2 possibilities:

1.

Hooplas suspicions of A&B weren't genuine. Her case was crap opposite of why A&B was attacked. She wanted to attack and get rid of A&B without going against her own already outlined views because of how that may draw suspicion

or 2.

She really didn't think things well through enough as you suggest.
hmm... I guess I can see how B/your defense is a viable answer there then since I believe Tajo was not thinking or paying attention to either game when he made identical posts in both games in the same timeframes as I ponted out earlier.

Check the time stamp and words of these posts from our game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1642063
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1645208
and compare them to these posts from the alpha game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1642065
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1645206
Tajo was clearly under the wrong impression that these games were the same. He has to treat and learn from both of them and he should now have learned from these mistakes with recent postings not being of the same manner.

So I guess I will accept your defense for ONLY that part.

_________________

3) You were actually attacking other people strongly for doing it while doing it yourself.

Rewind, you are the one I am accusing of doing this. You attacked me first for the fluff and I responded saying that you had done a type of fluff aswell and thus you were not blameless.

My response to this
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1669295
I wasn't attacking ortohoops for lack of content but attacking them primarily for their logic.

They said our wagon was oportunistic and that scum wouldn't post fluff; they helped lynch A&B with that attitude. They said my wagon was originally oportunistic and scum would avoid fluff; now they are on our wagon and say scum would do fluff. They said we fluff posted; Hoops did some too.

Basically they are going back on some key points of their logic as well as commiting things they once deemed wrong. I see that as hypocracy.

odd, I'm just now realizing that the given link there was something said by SWSWC and I said that in response to how they percieved I was attacking you.

PtA attacking Ortohoops for lack of content was amusing. Pot meet kettle.

<snip>

PtA is self contradicting with his long post saying they think Zaphod is scum, rather strongly, but landing a vote elsewhere. Also interesting that PtA's attacking Ortohoops for being hypocritical is itself hypocritical. Would you mind self voting?

What is said here by SWSC is an attack of us(PtA) on the grounds of our ortohoops suspicions. This can be consider an awkward response or bad defense of ortohoops in the terms of how SWSWC later looked at ortohoops in that same post.

Not really liking Orto's defense that "my hydra partner did it!" in regards to the three fluff posts PtA pointed out.

You and your hydra are the same player in this game. That's a BS defense. I do agree however that some of those "fluff posts" were direct replies to questions asked by other players.

Because they actually give credit to some of our(PtA's) suspicions on Ortohoops. I am greatly considering the possibility you(ortohoops) are scum with SWSWC because they seemed to defend you from some logic and then imediatly attack you with it. I think they may have been confused on whether to defend or distance from their scum buddy there pending how other players may view the case on you. By being in between like that they could defend or bus you without reprecussion as they would have the option to be on either side.

The same Back and forth attitude of SWSWC not knowing how to act around orto scum can also be seen here:

SWSWC's view of you here:

Orto

Your back and forth with Yos is stifling game conversation. While I feel your points are valid, you're sidetracking discussion which is antitown. I also don't like that you feel the need to reply to every single point against you. Do you still find PtA most likely scum? If so is Yos a likely buddy or a misguided townie?

Orto scummy here.

SWSSC agress that he has valid points but also he is called antitown.

The last two questions feel fabricated.

doesn't sit well we me or tajo

That's great. Why?

All that I've said above is pretty much the why. SWSWC was fairly back and forth with their view of you. One moment they agree and defend you, the next they attack you and call you antitown. Its practically wishy-washy and I can see SWSWC-scum being that way about a possible scum buddy like you.

<snip>

I disagree with the conclusion because I disagree with the premise that "there wasn't much of a case". FYI I have played several games with rofl as town previously- Lynch All Lurkers, Hunchback of Notre Dame and RealTime Mafia - in all he was extremely aggressive. I also saw a bit of a game where he was an SK which he got nominated for a scummy for, perhaps won it but I can't recall how he played that game. Anyways, in this and Alpha he played totally different (granted it's only one half of the hydra); which is why he got vigged in that and lynched in this. I have also seen him comment that he finds it harder to play as scum. Essentially it's very hard to fake such aggressiveness which is a stalwart of his town play, when scum. I don't actually think you're scummy for pushing this argument because it's counterintuitive anyway (and it's the same thing PTA attacked you for on A&B) and you're drawing attention to yourself by brazenly saying "I wish I was on this wagon, I did have a gut read on rofl but the people who did vote him are opportunistic scum". I do however think a position on the wagon is a null-tell if anything.

What you say here seems confusing to me. Are you saying you believe my case on Zaphod trying to come off like everyone else is weak? That you think Plum was not faking or gloating?

I have seen Roflcopter be fairly agressive as town many times. And I actually read the game where he was SK and nommed for a scummy. He did not win a scummy but I did support his nomination. He was actually fairly agressive as SK in that game.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8269
I would guess because he still needed to find and eliminate the other scum group. Why such agression did not carry over to this game where he was also SK, I'm not sure. Other than that game and Alpha/Beta, I have not seen Rofl-scum. I voted rofl over his failure to claim and submissive give up additude. I thought he was scum with SWSWC and that he had given up so I was happy to drop the hammer on that. What do you think of this reasoning? What do you recall of the main reasoning given by Frog Dodge, nyballs, RW? Basically does anyone other than ZMD come off as scummy to you?

I'm feeling I bit better about plum's analization of A&B now. Only thing that still bothers me a little is the phrase "excellent news". An SK being dead is good for the town but taking the time to say it exclusivly can be a minor scum tell. I say minor mostly because that classic tell is based on the assumption scum would want to fake being happy. Since trotsky as well as A&B were SK's, town and mafia would both be happy about the death of an sk. Her comment there isn't fake but just feels like she is emphasizing it a bit much. Since she was clarifying things perhaps I'm looking too much into it. I'll talk to tajo and get his take and if he thinks its nothing then I won't bring it up again. Zaph has looked alright otherwise as of late.

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

I mentioned I found RW scummy in my more recent posts and I agree that claim is crap with an attack on FD means theres got to be a lie in there. I am up for taking this to L-1 and or hammering. Anyone want to stop me?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

Sweet catch, Zmd. RW's question dodge is dodgy. If you protected him you sure as hell would have seen why FrogDodge was alive despite A&B's claimed kill and wouldn't have attacked and voted him on suspicion of being a kill-immune SK.

[quote="raging wishbone" Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive.

I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

The vote sure seemed like an attack; it definitely served as one. Nice try, fail lie, scum.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

DGB at the helm here.

If I ever say: "

why is so and so still alive

" it NEVER, EVER is a hint that I doc-protected this player. It means that I believe the player is scum and I am growing impatient with the speed of the lynch. Especially when it comes accompanied with a vote.

Besides, a Night 0 choice for a player likely to be killed would hardly be FD.

Ortohoops can hammer.

Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat as he is, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.

[Zmd]

Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat as

she

is, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.

Fixed. I thought you <3 me, yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their vote

[Raging Wishbone]

Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat as

she

is, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.

Fixed. I thought you <3 me, yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their vote

I just really can't explain this any better than I have. I can't speak for RR and you are asking me about things that happened close to four months ago. I just don't see what you see...

I have to believe scum is looking for free kill here and there is scum on this wagon. I am now an obv kill for scum, if I get lynched they get a freebie. Once again ZMD and Zaphod take center stage, so they should be Towns next kill when I flip Town.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Once again ZMD and Zaphod take center stage, so they should be Towns next kill when I flip Town.

You're sounding like Trotsky, haha.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

...yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their vote

No? Did I read too quickly and miss something?

[Zmd]

...yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their vote

No? Did I read too quickly and miss something?

You're misreading what she said. I did the same thing the first time I read it. She meant that you originally gave me (Kmd) the credit with the pronoun "he", but it was strictly her catch.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Love ya, Zaz .

I just really can't explain this any better than I have.

Didn't think so, but the extremely scummy internal contradiction still stands.

[J-Scope]

Nice catch ZMD. I agree with them and Zaphod in saying that RW's claim of doctor does not add up.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you were protecting Frog Dodge, that would be a good reason to guess why he wasn't scum killed by A&B, but you vote anyway to paint him as a SK. Why go so far as to vote and speculate that he's an SK?

------------------------------------

This is not emotional, I find very little within this game that could provoke a response such as you described. It is exaggerated to illustrate the importance of my reply.

I think adding swears in ALL CAPS to your attack draws the other players attentions to your case through emotion. They might subconsciously find your case more serious and obvious because of an unnecessary exaggeration. That's just how I saw it.

I'll concede that my lack of communication with my partner and his popping in and out throughout the game is anti-town on both counts. I only wonder if his flaking had more to do with the posting requirements of the game and not anything else. K-Scope likes the short 1-2 sentence posts after all.

@J-Scope - You may find my comments regarding Sex W/Shaft as a double standard, however I disagree. I find their comments regarding your "townie" alignment musch more proactive then those they made regarding us.

What is more proactive about it? That he said the words "townie points"? That sounds close enough to what you got: "townish read", so I think both of us could be tied to SWSWC in that way.

[PoketheAlpaca]

I am off work now and it looks like RW still can't explain his FD SK accusation coupled with the protection claim.

Rule Changes:
1. I will no longer prod or replace players. Nor will I modkill players for inactivity. You are all mature players: it is required by "the spirit of the game" that all players participate and post.

2. Each action phase will correspond with a period of day. Day 3 will equal Action Phase 2, Day 4 will be Action Phase 3, ect.

3. Twilight will last as long as I like, but I will not accept submissions for actions during periods of twilight.
4. Each day will have a deadline. At deadline the largest minority (or "first past the pole" in the event of a tie) will lynch.

Note that this totally lifts the "posting restriction" that the game has been under. Standby for a post explosion!

Unless I am mistaken Adel's new rules say a phase ends with each day. When RW is lynched day 3 and phase 2 will end. Power roles get to send their actions once during each phase. Any player that really is a power role should send their action asap so that they get it in before the lynching and end of phase. RW is currently at L-2. Meaning a kill of a player off the wagon won't cause an auto lynch and phase end. So now is probably best time to send stuff in. There are still some players that have not even posted today. How long you think we should wait before we move RW from L-2 and to the gallows?

[Ojando]

Catching up. Ugh, RW's claim is teeerribad, it does not correlate to the JD attack at all.
Also, I'm wondering, what is the point of saying now you supposedly protected PtA for this phase? Like, if you were a doctor, wouldn't you still want that scum would try to target PtA and would fail?

[Ojando]

It's probably a good idea to wait a bit for the possible powerroles before we lynch RW although I have little doubt they should be lynched.
Frog seems to have posted he's not gonna be here for the weekend - maybe we should wait until he comes back just to make sure everyone has a chance?

@mod

: is rule 13 (the spam rule) still being applied to this game?

[Saunt Adelaus]

@mod

: is rule 13 (the spam rule) still being applied to this game?

I hadn't thought about it, actually. I'll retract it now -- no point now that the action phase mechanic was changed.

[Ortohoops]

PTA: I (ortolan) am playing this game solely at present, Hoops left us open to attacks at the beginning of the game (albeit ones which aren't warranted); because they could be spun as similar to fluff posts

Yes, I think your case on Zaphod trying to come across like everyone else was weak.

Yes, not only Zmd comes across as scummy but RW now.

Because they've claimed to doctor someone they tried to paint with suspicion for not being night-killed. I also see little basis for their claimed protect on PTA. Thus I am ready to lynch, simply waiting PR resolution a la PTA's 362.

[Ojando]

I'm particularly non-plussed about the doctor claim and his attack on FD. Not only is it dodgy as hell, as pointed out, but it's another instance of RW putting people in impossible situations. There is absolutely nothing that FD could have done to defend himself from that attack, through no fault of his own.

I think RW has been fairly consistently role-hunting I feel. Has constantly asked for screencaps of hydra communication, something pointed out as running the risk of power-roles outing themselves, not just scum.

His attack on FD now seems fairly obviously attempting to get a doc to point out why FD didn't die, he basically seems to have said that by saying he 'planted some seeds'.

Nothing RW has done seems to be consistent with a doc.

The question from my other head regarding why a doc would reveal who they are protecting needs attention I feel as well.

[Raging Wishbone]

Well with Poke and Ojanda's votes, that will be a lynch, so I will make my final post now in case I am not around to see it. I will flip town Doctor, and again I do not feel my lynch is the worst thing in the world. I think once you see me flip town, the suspicion has to go right onto J-Scope, Zmd, and Zaphod. I think once you reread my exchange with ZMD, you will see how he framed the discussion to serve his purpose. Having written that, I am not sure he is doing it because he is scum or if he did it to keep from being lynched himself. Regardless, the subsequent discussion between Zaphod and ZMD contain scum. It is one or the other and I am certain their partner is J-Scope now. He orchestrated my lynch and did so by manipulating the context of a case I had dropped against him. Yet the more he explained himself, the scummier and more defensive (as if he has something to hide) he looked. I still can't get over the fact his partner K-Scope did not post in his quick topic thread before posting in the game. His interaction with Sex Ed is extremely suspicous and the "GodFather" of the mafia certainley did his/her best to confirm J-Scope as town. The meta I did on J-Scope; considering the Alpha game makes it pretty apparant he is playing as he did as scum.

I am a tad suspicious of Ojanda and Poke for trying to get people to role claim before the lynch, however I am going to stick with my read that the remaining scum is J-Scope with either ZMD or Zaphod as their partner. As far as who I protected and why I would reveal such information... umm, I could have lied? I could be mistaken? RR could have done something whilst I was away and as I explained I have not talked to him. Regardless it is a good thing... For instance, now scum wont NK Poke (who I think is town), and if I did protect someone else, then they will waist an NK. There are many reason I could have replied to J-Scope, the way I did and it is up to you all to figure them out. I won't reveal who I really protected until the end of the game.

Unvote: ZMD/Vote J-Scope

There shouldn't be any doubt either me or J-Scope are scum, so if I flip town he should be your next lynch. Also, in my opinion you should not have a mass role claim before lynching me. Just pull the trigger. Good Luck Town.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I won't reveal who I really protected until the end of the game.

What? I don't get this.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 369:

Raging Wishbone:

4

:Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope, Zmd, nyballosulgniirkps
Zmd:

2

:Frog Dodging, Ortohoops,
J-Scope:

1

:Raging Wishbone


not voting:

3

:Ojando, PoketheAlpaca, Yosariwen,

while 10 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

[PoketheAlpaca]

I have no desire to see anyone else claim today. The time being spent now is on the possibility someone who has power has not sent. The time is not being given for people to claim. I don't see any reason those people should claim. They should just send actions if they haven't. Only thing they should post about in thread is, Die Scum Die. I don't get why people are even asking about your second protect when your first protect paints you as scum and an obv liar with your earlier play in relation to FD.

I think your case on J-scope is crap, RW. You asked for screen caps of a pm from k-scope and then yelled at him when you got them. Called an entire case OMGUS when I believe J-scope started voting/going after you a long time ago for stuff. Like I said before K-scope is the type of player that just acts and deals with the results later. He wagons and votes oftenly asking for hammers. That's how K-scope got a hammer for a sig. He rarely scum hunts and when he does its usually about stuff he feels he has learned from a wagon. He is highly lurkish otherwise. If you check his account the last time K-scope posted on the site was in GD on June 19th and before that it was in mishmash on June 1st. So I believe the story J-scope gave here about why K-scope hasn't be doing anything

@RW: I did get a response from him and it's a good enough excuse for me to believe it.

Why do you want a screencap of this? Why not just a bit o' text? I'll screencap, of course, but I'd much rather lynch you.

Mod: Can we get a vote count?

I don't like the modkill idea. This game shouldn't be too hard to catch up in if we can find good replacements.

Frog Dodge and Pokey Alpaca should add to the list of lynch candidates just to make it semi-official, and we should wrap up this lynch before the clock strikes 12.

Your last post RW looks like a worthless attempt to sling mud at other players. I think you are just clawing at any straw that will keep you alive at the moment. You didn't say much about ZMD when you voted him at first

during day 3

.

I have read the case against ZMD and although I do not feel it is as strong as J-Scope or Zaphod, I feel he is the best lynch at this point of the game.

I don't think we have heard nearly enough from NYBalls and Ojando who seem to be actively lurking and I would like to hear more from Orthohoops.

You basically just said you had read over things and figured it was best lynch to go through now. Looks like you were just trying to rappidly sneak onto ZMD's wagon as though you didn't suspect them as much today, at least as not as much as others. BUT weren't you voting ZMD earlier, you aren't going to mention what you thought of them then to support your vote? Truth is you didn't really think much at all. Your suspicions have been wavering some.

Here's what I mean. At one point yesterday you asked for reasons not to derail ZMD's wagon.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 68#1722468

Although just to clarify, you can not win as scum yeah or no? Can you based on your statement?

That is a theoritical question for mafiascum games... would it be an Ethics violation = for you to win as scum after that statment?

YOU are the one who went out of you way to clarify your alignemnt had nothing to do with you leaving mafiascum! So please explain why?

Also, let me know why I should not derail the ZMD wagon?

And the post you made before that one was where you voted for ZMD.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1722465
So you were considering derailing that soon? Those 2 posts were back to back in the thread, they folow each other. Guess you didn't have much on ZMD even then. Also you seem to flop back and forth on Zaphod a couple of times. You vote them in this post
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1655207
and then 2 posts from you later you say they are town and are giving them a free pass
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 13#1660013
I also think the timing of your last vote on Zaphod was somewhat omgus since Zaphod was suspecting of being scum saved by the trotsky lynch
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#1720405
I'll admit you did indeed talk about zaphod some earlier but it was not recent in terms of when you made that vote. RW posts before that vote were all about trotsky and j-scope. You said your partner wanted to vote but gave no reason why.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 41#1707641
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1707671
You basically took pity on DGB for her site departure in the future. Then comes the vote on zaphod already cited and then you eventually end up agreeing with Zaphod and going after ZMD. The vote/post I speak of now were already given here, they were followed by those derail comments I pointed out. Why would you agree with someone you suspected so quickly like zaphod to jump on ZMD? And then you ask about derailing? If you were asking about derailing you clearly weren't in the mood to support your own vote on ZMD. You've been doing some wierd voting practically floping around on zaphod and ZMD. Make up your mind about your convictions and stick to them.


Shanba comes off V/la monday. If jdodge hasn't posted in a month here he probably won't before then. I know Jdodge's personality well enough to agree with Shanba there. Yos is at his beach bash til wednesday. Nuwen doesn't seem to be V/la and has been around the site so she should be seeing things even if yos isn't.

We got more than enough time to wait for both if people want me too. I got a job in computers in real life during week days. When at work, I don't like making big posts in any game since i am always more focused on my job. I'll only make big posts when I'm on break or at home as a result. BUT since I'll likly just jumping in to vote, something short and sweet, I will have absolutly no trouble logging in to do that. I don't see how RW could be town with their play and that claim has some already well noticed holes so there isn't much to say other than, Die Scum Die. I am fine with waiting til monday afternoon. I am in Eastern USA and Shanba is from brittain so he should be good. Unless you guys think I should wait til wednesday or until both of them (Yos and FD) post "RW needs to die", I'll be putting RW at L-1 monday afternoon. Whoever wants to and logs on after that can drop the hammer.

If you think or want me to wait more say how long you think I should or I'll be voting monday afternoon.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Yosariwen, Tracker, has been killed.

Votecount as of post 371:

Raging Wishbone:

4

:Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope, Zmd, nyballosulgniirkps
Zmd:

2

:Frog Dodging, Ortohoops,
J-Scope:

1

:Raging Wishbone


not voting:

2

:Ojando, PoketheAlpaca,

while 9 players are alive, 5 votes will lynch

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

All right,

now

can we get a lynch on the scumbag?

[Ojando]

Vote: Raging Wishbone

Me and my other head have outlined why above in detail, don't need to say it again.