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[Seraphim]

I definitely agree. I don't want a PGO out there and the Bus Driver will just be messy.

Mod: Can we choose the same ability twice? Or can each ability only be chosen once?

[Seraphim]

Read, dumbass =__=

You are extremely helpful. Goat's post seems to imply that we could choose one action twice.

Anyway.

Vote: Tracker

[Seraphim]

Wait, aha, I've got this figured out. Yeah, then I definitely agree with Goat. Double Tracker + Roleblocker.

[Seraphim]

Read, dumbass =__=

You are extremely helpful. Goat's post seems to imply that we could choose one action twice.

Anyway.

Vote: Tracker

^^; i try to be. Mafia has made me bitchy as of late so I apologize in advance.

Vote: Tracker

Bah, it's partially my fault for not reading carefully. I just woke up so, yeah.

[Seraphim]

Yes. I think we just clarified that.

[Seraphim]

Also, if any one wants to debate the choice of abilities, do it relatively soon...we have a month to finish the entire day so we shouldn't tary terribly long especially when the choice is this obvious. Even with all this ability choosing, scumhunting is still the primary focus of this time and we should dedicate as much time as possible to hunting scum.

[Seraphim]

There is a risk of giving PGO to scum. My choice is basically random at the moment, and I am not interested in seeing PGO be given to scum.

Why is in the world is your choice random?

[Seraphim]

Unvote

I think I want to hear from the other members of our team before we get a "hammer".

[Seraphim]

Ren: If you were in his position, what criteria would you use to dish out the abilities on day 1?

Unless there was a major reason to avoid a group, I wish dish out abilities based on my meta of each player in each group. For example, if there was a Empking-zwet pairing, you would probably be more likely to give a better ability to the Adel-SensFan pairing.

There is no such thing is random...I agree with Ren that is looks like Scot is trying to avoid scrunity for his decisions as Creative Director.

[Seraphim]

You guys confuse me with someone who can catch scum with the slightest slip. I am in no way trying to avoid scrutiny.

We're not asking you to catch scum "with the slightest slip." That has nothing to do with avoiding scrutiny which has nothing to do with what you're being accused of.

Like I said, there are no random decisions. And lying about this and stating that your choices are random is simply avoiding scrunity.

[Seraphim]

In other words, you are avoiding accountibility for your decisions as Creative Director.

[Seraphim]

Yeah, I never said I can't catch scum. I never said I wasn't going to try and see if any of the people of the creative department act scummy during this stage. It's HIGHLY unlikely that any scum is going to let something slip during this phase, so my choice, barring anything extreme, is going to be basically random for today. Stop trying to stretch what I said into something that looks bad.

*sigh* There is no stretching of the truth. You are avoiding accountibility. And now you're contradicting yourself.

You guys confuse me with someone who can catch scum with the slightest slip.

What does this mean then?

[Seraphim]

You are a pivotal power role, scotty. Expect your decisions to be looked over deeply. Especially as the game continues and more players end up dead. You need to be able to say "this is why I chose this person..."

If it turns out you chose a bunch of scum...it will be very easy for you to yell, it was "random, random I say!" thus avoiding accountibility for your actions. You should choose players based on your reads of them and suggestions of other players, not RANDOM.

[Seraphim]

I think the word you are looking for is "gut".

[Seraphim]

If scot is scum then we should replace him right now.

[Seraphim]

If scot is scum then we should replace him right now.

I highly doubt he is. But this is not our choice, this is the CEO's

I know. I am merely stating that Ren's choice doesn't exist. If we know he is scum, we lynch him and then replace him. We don't let him hand out powers.

[Seraphim]

Seraphim's first post in the QT stated that one player on the team was scum.

The thought hadn't occurred to me, I hadn't read the rules yet. Now I read the rules, but I'm still somewhat unclear on the concept.

Seraphim knew right off the bat that there was scum in our group.

Misrepping at its finest. I never stated I knew there were scum. I asked, and I quote "Are any of you scum?" This was a JOKE to get discussion started. I never stated that and your blanant misrepping is FAR more scummy than anything I have done. I know exactly who to vote once we get to the voting phase.

@Nuwen

How is my "oppurtunism" any more oppurtunistic than Ren's? Ren, in our quick topic and here, has accused three different players of being scum.

Also, what makes you "certain" I am scum?

[Seraphim]

You stated that I stated that I knew that there was scum in our group. I can't find that either.

[Seraphim]

You asked if any of us were scum.

I had no idea what sort of masonry I was in, the PM doesn't name or most importantly enumerate the other members.

I strutted into the QT without a clue.

The last thing on my mind would be to barge in and ask who is scum, not knowing how many others there were, what we were doing, etc.

It was YOUR first thought.

I do tend to wonder who is scum, yes. I always figured that hunting scum was one of the points of mafia. So, I thought I would ask if anyone in our group was scum. It may be the last thing on your mind but I fail to understand how this implicates me as scum.

You have still failed to prove that I KNOW there is scum in Accounting. I'll get to Nuwen's post later.

[Seraphim]

I can already say with certainty that Seraphim is scum. Our interaction in the QT makes it obvious:

Ren seizes Scot's "mostly random" bit.
Seraphim parrots "Exactly my thoughts. We definitely need to pursue this."

Wait, hold on. I "parroted" Ren? Where did I "parrot" Ren? If I recall, in the game and the quick topic, I was not only the first to notice it but the first to start attacking Scot for it. Reading is tech.

Seraphim asks "Do you think we've caught scum in Scot?"
Cay says both are overreacting.
Ren asks if she's explaining well enough, clarifies mounting case
Seraphim: Overreacting is fun! And we can replace him anyway
Cay continues to call Ren's case a stretch.
Ren implies Cay's only reason to attack the case so hard is that Cay is scum with Scot.
Seraphim calls Ren's newer accusations against Cay a reach and is now game for lynching either Ren or Scot, Ren preferred.

Opportunism at its finest.

I still fail to understand how I am somehow scummier from this exchange than Ren. And do you agree that Ren's case against Cayke is reaching?

[Seraphim]

BTW, you yourself implied that *I* must have KNOWN that you're scum, after I suggested that you just confessed scum.

I think you're bullshitting.

And if you know I'm scum, clearly, judging by your previous arguments, YOU must be scum therefore.

[Seraphim]

Allow me to restate that. If you knew that I was scum, you must be scum.

[Seraphim]

I think the CEO is also privy to the quicktopic. But yes, I'm willing to comment on the task at hand.

That's a gutsy plan. If you were the Creative Director, who would get which abilities?

[Seraphim]

That's a gutsy plan. If you were the Creative Director, who would get which abilities?

Answers to this question would be gold for the scum, if they assume that a significant proportion of these answers would be carried out.

I suggest that it be left unanswered, in the tradition of "don't direct the vig."

I think Adel is perfectly capable of deciding for himself if he wants to answer that question or not.

And you know what they say...assume makes an ass out of you and me.

[Seraphim]

Earlier in the thread, the "safe" bet was to take two trackers and a roleblock. You are suggesting something radically different.

[Seraphim]

Earlier in the thread, the "safe" bet was to take two trackers and a roleblock. You are suggesting something radically different.

why were you happy to go along with that consensus?

I thought it to be a solid opening plan for the first day.

[Seraphim]

why? which alternatives did you consider and why did you reject them?

No alternatives were considered at that time, or at least not in any of the channels I saw.

I did consider, briefly, a roleblocker, tracker, and Bus Driver combo but thought the double trackers provided a better option. Chances are, at least one of the trackers would end up in town hands.

[Seraphim]

so you posted this within two hours of the roles being introduced

Unvote

I think I want to hear from the other members of our team before we get a "hammer".

and you totally failed to do any further independent analysis, failed to collaborate with your accounting colleagues to examine other options, and failed to pressure other members of your accounting team to weigh in?

I was too busy defending myself from bullshit attacks by the rest of my team to pressure them unfortuantely.

Also, I never said that gutsy was a bad thing. As I already stated, it is a completely different plan than what has been stated in the past.

scot should assign PGO+Tracker to the same creative team, and busdriver to another.

The busdriver should target any two players who aren't a member of the other creative teams. The busdriver should not tell his creative team partner who he targeted until the next day when a full disclosure of all movements is made.

The scum will be limited to targeting a player who isn't on a creative team (for fear of hitting the PGO, or outing that they knew who the PGO was) and either the CEO or the CD will be a likely target for the busdriver.

Essentially, this plan will tie the scum hands to killing a member of the accounting team, the most vanilla members of this game.

So, here's the plan. Let's create three theoretical groups, Group A, Group B, and Group C.

Group A recieves the PGO and the tracker.
Group B recieves the bus driver.
Group C recieves nothing.

Group A targets a random player, perhaps the CEO or someone equally important with the PGO.

Group B switches someone who is CD and CEO with someone who is NOT CD and CEO, probably someone in accouting.

Group A tracks a random player and does not say who this player is.

One problem is the part where you talk about the member of Group A deciding who to bus drive without telling partner. Both partners know who is targeted.

---

IF GROUP A HAS SCUM,
-Scum will be able to avoid the tracker.
-Scum will be able to avoid the PGO.


IF GROUP B HAS SCUM,
-Scum will know who is getting bus driven...if it's someone they want to target, they can target the other person instead. Basically, they beat the bus driver by targeting the person who they are not targeting.

One problem I can forsee is the Bus Driver and PGO somehow interacting or the tracker targeting the PGO. However, these problems are minimal.

This plan seems fairly sound but if both teams have scum they might be able to manipulate events in their favor.

[Seraphim]

Hmmm. Reading is tech.

If the PGO can only target one of their own, that runs a whole fuckload of WIFOM. So one creative team is safe.

I like this plan better now.

[Seraphim]

Mod: Will the creative teams be able to privately PM you their decisions without their partner's knowledge or do both members need to reach a consensus?

[Seraphim]

Honestly, if I had to make a choice between the two, I think Ren is more suspcious. I'm not going to state this in the thread yet though as I still want pressure on Scot. It is CRUCIAL that we make sure he is not scum.

...?

Yep, this definitely looks like disinterest in information to me.

[Seraphim]

Congratulations, Nuwen, you've stumbled onto one of my major weaknesses as a Mafia player. Scum, town, third-party, I am way too excited for the game to progress and for lynches to happen. Every game I've been seen as "oppurtunistic" because I'm simply eager to see people dead and the game to progress. There is no greater euphoria than a player's reveal after death when I finally get to see whether or not I was correct in my read of them. It's been my downfall many many times.

[Seraphim]

How do you think WIHII reflected your "major weaknesses?" Your strengths?

War in Heaven 2 was probably the first game where I started to notice this weakness. I was constantly jumping from target to target, hoping to replicate the success of our first hit, the death of Shinnen who flipped scum.

My one strength is finding game balance, something I didn't have a chance to show in WIH2. In endgames, I am usually able to detirmine who is fake-claiming and who is telling the truth.

@Ren

That comes from my excitement for the night phas, for the lynch, for just seeing people die and the game progress.

[Seraphim]

It's just who I am. I'm trying to fix it.

*sigh*

I am seriously considering replacing out. I'm not sure if I'm in a right state of mind to play this game effectively.

[Seraphim]

Should I hammer?

[Seraphim]

Vote: PGO

[Seraphim]

Sorry. That last part of the game didn't interest me a terrible lot.

So, anyway, I still think Ren Hoek os the scummiest player for his reaching and misrepping of my opening posts in the quick topic.

[Seraphim]

Oh yeah. I forgot we could vote now. I thought we had to wait until after the morning phase.

Vote: Ren Hoek

[Seraphim]

Whoa, I go V/LA and get killed. I was looking forward to this game too.

Ah well.

BAH GO TOWN