DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[J-Scope]

There were 3 trackers in alpha. Why not multiple roles here?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

There were 3 trackers in alpha. Why not multiple roles here?

I forgot about that.

[Frog Dodging]

Getting about halfway through this has so far reinforced my positions. In particular, I am p. certain that Ojando is town, and fairly certain that ZB is town. I am therefore looking for scum from the Ortohoops/PTA/J-Scope/nyballs.

In my partial reread Jscope and nyballs predecessor stuck out as /notgood on the very early wagons.

[Frog Dodging]

I get the distinct feeling that people aren't caring as much about this game as they ought to be. I think this game needs someone to get riled up or pissed off. How much do you all care about winning this game? Do you want to win?

[ortolan]

/me throws chair at Frog Dodging

there was clearly a roleblock or doctor protect contributing to the no kill, if it was a roleblocker someone knows who da scum is (actually I would be very suspicious if someone claimed roleblocker now having missed the opportunity to do so earlier)

therefore I'm more inclined to believe it resulted from a doctor protect. There are two scum left among 7 players. If the doctor claims now we get them confirmed and another townie confirmed (I'm highly skeptical a mafia doctor would protect against their own kill)- the scum can kill one but not the other, unless they counter-claim in which case we still have time to lynch each claimant to prevent fake-claiming. If we wait until LYOL before they claim, we're more than likely going to be drawn into a 50/50 if the mafia counter-claims them.

Therefore I advocate...mass claim! Any disagreements?

[ortolan]

Actually there is a flaw in that in that if the scum kill goes through today and we mislynch, if they kill again tomorrow then that brings it down to 4 players and they end-game. Which means we are *probably* going to be in MyoL now. No lynching seems advisable, and it may be better to leave the massclaim till tomorrow.

[Frog Dodging]

Yeah, I'm just a little bit worried that players (and this includes myself) seem to be doing the bare minimum, probably as a result of the fact that no one is really psyched up about this game, and aren't particularly fussed whether we win or lose. No one will be screaming with anguish if we lose this game because no one has put a massive amount of effort in, apart from possibly one or two of the dead. That's a problem as that attitude massively favours scum, especially if our status quo is not hitting the scumbags: they can skate by. Posts like the one by nyballs last page should stick out like a sore thumb, but in the midst of all these people wading around looking lost it doesn't look any worse than some of the other posts, including some of my own. The complaints about ojando looking passive seem bizarre as everyone in this game is looking passive atm.

Furthermore, this setup discussion stuff, useful as it is (and I will be weighing in in a bit) is a distraction from the nitty gritty of scumhunting. Ortohoops hasn't made an attack on anyone today, or given us any thoughts about who he is feeling as scum.

My reread was partly meant to try and address some of this stuff by inputting a spark into the game but I'm not really feeling it at the moment. I did notice some interesting things but what I really want to look at is the evolution of the wagons, and I haven't got to the interesting wagons as of this instant. Today or tomorrow I will get there.

[Frog Dodging]

As for the setup speculation stuff:

If there is a roleblocker he should without a doubt come forwards now, and the fact that no one has makes me doubt there is one. Like a cop with a guilty, we're approaching the point where that sort of stuff really shouldn't be hidden.

As for a doc, I don't see a massive advantage in him coming forwards today over coming forwards tomorrow. I mean, a 50/50 is still better odds than we would normally get when trying to lynch scum, even slightly better than having the two confirmed innocents, especially when you consider that the claimed doc would instantly die. However, since any doc would have interesting information to share with the town, he really ought to be breadcrumbing yesterdays protection target.

[J-Scope]

It does sound like we are in potential mylo by what Orto wrote out. A RB claim would give us some good odds since I doubt scum didn’t send in any kill.

A no lynch might be good but we should do some scumhunting today because we have the time.

As for a doc, I don't see a massive advantage in him coming forwards today over coming forwards tomorrow. I mean, a 50/50 is still better odds than we would normally get when trying to lynch scum, even slightly better than having the two confirmed innocents, especially when you consider that the claimed doc would instantly die. However, since any doc would have interesting information to share with the town, he really ought to be breadcrumbing yesterdays protection target.

I understand the part about clearing innocents while the doc is alive, but I don’t understand the breadcrumbing before the doc claims outright. Scum might pick up on the breadcrumb and kill the doc before we know who they targeted.

Ojanen has done most of the posting since then, and is naturally more passive than I am.

Really? She just chewed me out in the recently ended chosen game.

I don’t think you necessarily have to start being confident with your next target for me to think you’re playing like town, but I have noticed a drop in your enthusiasm to question someone one on one. It’s a drop that FD pointed out most of us are doing, but some people weren’t that active to begin with (nyballs and zaphod in particular).

It's interesting that you apparently agree with some of his rankings even though he has you as top 2/equal first in his suspects. You need to explain why you could both be town and he could have a similar mentality to you about finding the scum, but place you so highly in his suspects.

I wouldn’t change my prior suspicions just because he came out with a similar list. Especially not after he flipped town, just because he’s wrong about me and I think he’s wrong about nyballs.

I think we had different reasons for suspecting Zaphod, and I can’t tell his complete reason for suspecting either Ojando or Ortohoops. Reasons for placing FD and PtA looks pretty similar. I’ll only post comparative reads from ZMD and myself if some people think it’s worthwhile.

If you re-read my subsequent posts you'll see you're entirely re-treading old ground. I made that post because I was in a rush to beat the prod, if you read my next post I addressed this point after Yos brought it up.

Right, but my concern is that while you claimed to have noticed shaft.ed death and didn’t take into account its implications, you didn’t make any acknowledgement of his death in that post. You didn’t have to consider implications or respond to other people’s ideas on the scum flip, but I am don’t know why you left it completely alone until the next post.

When you say your bad feeling "starts" at that point- is there any more substance to it, or are you just re-treading the points Yos and PTA already made?

There’s also your periods of inactivity. Can you say that any are V/LA or something else? If not I think it shows too much complacency for town that still need to find a couple of scum.

But that’s all for now. I don’t know who you suspect now but I have that question about many people.

[Shanba]

It does sound like we are in potential mylo by what Orto wrote out. A RB claim would give us some good odds since I doubt scum didn’t send in any kill.

A no lynch might be good but we should do some scumhunting today because we have the time.

As for a doc, I don't see a massive advantage in him coming forwards today over coming forwards tomorrow. I mean, a 50/50 is still better odds than we would normally get when trying to lynch scum, even slightly better than having the two confirmed innocents, especially when you consider that the claimed doc would instantly die. However, since any doc would have interesting information to share with the town, he really ought to be breadcrumbing yesterdays protection target.

I understand the part about clearing innocents while the doc is alive, but I don’t understand the breadcrumbing before the doc claims outright. Scum might pick up on the breadcrumb and kill the doc before we know who they targeted.

I've never seen scum pick up on a breadcrumb. Doc should breadcrumb in case doc dies - most breadcrumbs are obvious in retrospect. Also, townies should start engaging in beadcrumb-esque behaviour.

Worst case scenario would be that the doc died and we don't know who they targeted.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

If no one has information about foiling the NK, I'm going to assume that the scum failed on their own.

[PoketheAlpaca]

If you re-read my subsequent posts you'll see you're entirely re-treading old ground. I made that post because I was in a rush to beat the prod, if you read my next post I addressed this point after Yos brought it up. When you say your bad feeling "starts" at that point- is there any more substance to it, or are you just re-treading the points Yos and PTA already made?

Just because you responded does not mean I buy your response or that it defeats my case. Even Yosarian said he still suspected you after you made your response to him. The best kinda of scum hunting I do is finding connections between players. I pointed out 3 out of 4 scum in the F&E&E game and the Cowboy bebop game early on and I plan on sticking to my suspicions firmly here. I think you are likly scum with SWSWC.

Rules state mafia got 3 members so I think I'll search for the the other scum now too.

@Nyballosulgniirkps,

1.

At various times earlier in the game you state you don't see the case on zaphod from trotsky or others. Judging your recent reads post it would appear you have changed your mind about them. Are their back and forth reads on ZMD your only reason? How does this relate to your early game read of Zaphod?

2.

in this post
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 35#1707635
You get off RW's wagon and vote trotsky as trotsky's wagon is picking up before page 12. You were the 4th vote on RW and the 4th vote on Trotsky at that point. Is there any great reason you can give for thinking a wagon on Trotsky would go through over your wagon on RW? Why didn't you continue to try to push for an RW lynch when you clearly perfered it and needed the same number of votes?

3.

In that post You don't mention any strong suspicions on trotsky. The only time you mention an actual case for suspecting trotsky before that post is a month earlier here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54#1662254

I think this post is scum:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 35#1655435

It reeks of scum glee at having found vig/sk:
a) shows less than passing concern for AB's alignment
b) the way he ask for Zaphod's kill looks like scum seeing a great opportunity at augmenting the bodies count

To this I add that I don't see the case on Zaphod and don't like the way trostky has been pushing it. Plus, I don't think DGB is cynical enough to use emotional blackmail as scum to get out of trouble, so my read of her is town at the moment.

Vote trotsky

Did you think that alone was reason enough to lynch trotsky?

4.

Me and you had a discussion earlier. You said RW's unvote of A&B was a town tell. If I recall correctly you said it had something to do with RW wanting to utilize A&B's kill. How does this relate to your read of trotsky being scum for wanting to use the kill?

5.

Your main reasons for going after RW and ZMD were you believed the attack both had made on Frogdodging was a great misrepresentation. You sad earlier you believed RW was more guilty of the attack than ZMD because RW had done direct quoting of the post where frogdodge dealt with their mortality. When RW flipped Town it didn't seem to effect your main standing reasons.

@nyballs: Is ZMD still your top suspect? How much of it is this reason:

Top two candidates on my list right now are Raging Wishbone and ZMD. Both made the ridiculous attempt of painting Frog Dodging as possessing confidence that they wouldn't die by taking their post out of content.

Yes. I still find the attack on Frog Dodging to be incredibly scummy, regardless of the fact that Raging Wishbone, in their deranged state of mind, clung to it despite being town. There are other things, though, the main point which comes to mind being his complete detachment from the game earlier on, though that point on its own doesn't hold as much weight in my opinion because of the mechanic that previously governed the game.

Vote: Zmd

You aslo mention you had other things and then undermine that logic by saying it doesn't hold that much weight. I don't think you really had any other strong reasons for going after them. Can you explain why you were willing to continue going after ZMD for the same main reasons you went after RW when you said ZMD was less guilty of it? Can you also state if there were truly other things that you actually felt strongly about?

_________________

Something I've noticed is that with the exception of Yosariwen, you were a supporter of every 3 or so listing here:

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (1) Ojando
3. Zmd (2) Ojando, Ortohoops, nybaloosulgniirkps
4. Trotsky(4): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ortohoops
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps(?)
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (2): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando, nyballosulgniirkps
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

I'm thinking Nyball might be scum that has been trying to skate bye, by agreeing with everyone else's suspicions. Many have mentioned Zaphod's back and forth reads. nyball doesn't seem to have covered any new reason. Does nyballs new suspicions factor in nyball originally not liking Trotsky's case on zaphod because nyball didn't believe DGB to be that cynical? How much did they really suspect trotsky and or push the RW and ZMD wagons further than diliking the attacks on FD? These are the reasons I have made the 5 comments above.

Also I am not sure I follow why some people are considering no lynching today. Not really sure how its going to benefit us. Unless I figure that out or get an explaination on it I think I'm up for voting/lynching ortohoops or Nyball.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Gawd.

PoketheAlpaca is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO town.

I'm also against a no-lynch.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

HEY GUYS I JUST NOTICED

THIS IS IMPORTANT

Look at the number of SKs, mafia; look at the number of kills.

If SKs don't submit a kill, someone is chosen randomly by the mod.

This mechanism doesn't appear to apply to mafia.

[J-Scope]

HEY GUYS I JUST NOTICED

THIS IS IMPORTANT

Look at the number of SKs, mafia; look at the number of kills.

If SKs don't submit a kill, someone is chosen randomly by the mod.

This mechanism doesn't appear to apply to mafia.

So unless wishbone stopped kills, or scum tried to kill the same people at the same time, its possible that a massclaim will answer why there were no kills in previous days?

Still we don't know which kills were from which scum. This looks like further reason for a RB claim at the least now.

But who does everyone think is scum without speculating on kills?

[ortolan]

in terms of viable pairings you and nyb look good I must say

I like your prompt for them to post more in 139 having as far as I'm aware not mentioned them previously:

nyballs: Have you finished reading? Where are you?

Interestingly in nyb's re-read in 166 you're one of the few players they ignore.

Then in your next post you strangely don't mention them having prompted them to speak up- no reply to their catch up post (Post 172)

nyb doesn't mention you in 205 either,

or

in 209. When you post 210 that's not the first time you two have had adjacent posts (presumably after having had a nice little day-talk) WHERE YOU TOTALLY IGNORE ONE ANOTHER.

217 you make the whole song and dance routine about not thinking PTA is scum by virtue of SWSWC's flip (yes, I agree with this, FYI- doesn't make you town though). Again in your suspects or cleared players list you don't mention nyb at all.

You are right, shaft.ed’s killer would have to be a second SK and not a Vig. I can get on board with prioritizing the search for shaft.ed’s scumbuddies.

How much of SWSWC was Shaft.ed and how much was elvis_knits? I couldn't tell if e_k was contributing but I also don't know how either play. Does anyone know e_k enough to know if she would bus early on or maybe try to ignore scumbuddies?

This just reads like a caricature of hunting your buddies' partners.

PokeTheAlpaca - Well, wasn't really fond of the wagon by the last time I posted, and I think Shaft.ed's death, overall, doesn't say a lot. While it lowers the probability he was scum with them, it doesn't really speak much in terms of whether or not he's the 2nd serial killer.

This is the same point your buddy's been making even though you're yet to mention him.

But yer, for everyone else, just count the number of times they mention one another in subsequent posts. It's completely zilch, the only context J-Scope mentions nyb in is:

I am very sure Trotsky is at L-1 (with votes from ZMD, Ortohoops, Frog Dodge, nyballs, and RW)

Now that the second SK is gone I'm having trouble finding room for Alpacascum; I still don't think he is mafia with shaft.ed.

Not the first time you've distanced post-mortem like this. I find it amusing you've been so on my case over ignoring SWSWC's flip to begin with (which was a thread you stole from PTA anyhow).

J-Scope is still going to hyper-length to analyse SWSWC's scumbuddies in 317 and still totally ignoring nyb.

@ZMD: Is the voting analysis the only reason RW is on your suspect list? Why is RW higher than nyballs?

Can nyballs tell us where they stand?

(nyb votes in the very next post, again)

These are the only mentions they make of one another until post 382, where J-Scope's opinion of nyb is ambiguous- "please post more" pretty much.

Again nyb's response is adjacent to J-Scope's in 423. The language used to address J-Scope's questions in this post I find formal and neutral (distancing), in contrast to the answers to Zaphod and Zmd featuring more emotion and aggression respectively.

ZMD is scummy looking, but I think Zaphod is just plain scum.

Textbook distancing from the mislynch.

And nyballs needs to show some life before this day is over. (Hint: this day is almost over)

Why do they need to show more life, it's not like you ever find them scummy (or even mention them) even though you've hinted that they're lurking throughout the game.

ZMD has given very weak, subjective reasons for suspecting nyballs. The fact that he is promoting them so highly makes me worry he’s trying to bus (that's speculation for tomorrow and doesn't increase my suspicion on ZMD today), or that he’s not trying to analyze posts, but either way ZMD looks bad.

"I'm not gonna get on the townie wagon, but if his lynch falls through and my buddy gets lynched instead, I'll blame it on him"

note nyb and J-Scope both apparently have Zaphod as their scummiest, but nyb is not yet game to put a vote down.

nyb's list is particularly scummy because the two lowest down players are Zaphod and Ojanen and I see no feasible link between the two. It looks like the scum are set to lynch Zaphod and end-game us if their kill goes through today and tomorrow.

[J-Scope]

Some of orto's pbpa looks like spin because he doesn't always explain why a particular thing points to greater chance of jahudo-nyballs partnership and not another option. I also don't think it's a good idea to be looking for scum partnership in case you're only half-right. I think that hurts individual cases.

I like your prompt for them to post more in 139 having as far as I'm aware not mentioned them previously:

Does this actually mean anything?

Then in your next post you strangely don't mention them having prompted them to speak up- no reply to their catch up post (Post 172)

I didn't find anything interesting to comment on from their posts. I prompted them to speak because they hadn't posted at all. They weren't the only one I asked to be more active.

nyb doesn't mention you in 205 either,

or

in 209. When you post 210 that's not the first time you two have had adjacent posts (presumably after having had a nice little day-talk) WHERE YOU TOTALLY IGNORE ONE ANOTHER.

I don't think its funny that you threw in that little day-talk joke. Is it strange that I ignored nyballs only because I had prodded them to post?

This just reads like a caricature of hunting your buddies' partners.

How so? As it stands your statement looks like spin, because it doesn't explain why and why not the other option.

But yer, for everyone else, just count the number of times they mention one another in subsequent posts. It's completely zilch, the only context J-Scope mentions nyb in is:

Valid observation. I don't have a defense other than what I write is what I think is worthy of being written at the time. Nyballs hasn't said much that I find interesting either way. For most of the game I did the same with you, Orto, and Ojando. I mostly ignored both of you.

I find it amusing you've been so on my case over ignoring SWSWC's flip to begin with (which was a thread you stole from PTA anyhow).

You are overreacting. I have not been so on your case. I haven't called you scummy once. I'm not trying to find ways to call you scum.

J-Scope is still going to hyper-length to analyse SWSWC's scumbuddies in 317 and still totally ignoring nyb.

Shaft.ed didn't mention nyballs.

Again nyb's response is adjacent to J-Scope's in 423. The language used to address J-Scope's questions in this post I find formal and neutral (distancing), in contrast to the answers to Zaphod and Zmd featuring more emotion and aggression respectively.

Are you trying to make a point with our posts being adjacent? I think nyballs' tone can be explained by the fact he was taking the entire post to suspect ZMD, so naturally he'd agree with my points to further his position and disagree with ZMD to further his position. This could be a valid point against nyballs actually.

Textbook distancing from the mislynch.

Because I found Zaphod scummier than ZMD? I had held that position at the start of that day.

Why do they need to show more life, it's not like you ever find them scummy (or even mention them) even though you've hinted that they're lurking throughout the game.

It's always bad when players are lurky. Was my hint the one saying they had a dozen posts over the course of 2 months? I find that bad even if they're posts are chock full of content.

nyb's list is particularly scummy because the two lowest down players are Zaphod and Ojanen and I see no feasible link between the two. It looks like the scum are set to lynch Zaphod and end-game us if their kill goes through today and tomorrow.

I'm not looking for both scum at the same time in case one is wrong. I'm still looking for people individually.

EVERYONE: Is it a good or bad strategy to be looking for both scum right through connections now?

[Ojando]

Gah, summer. I'm apt to being V/LAish currently but I'm trying to get a substantive post up later today or latest tomorrow. Traveling isn't friendly to mafia.

Guys, what do you mean by this?

Look at the number of SKs, mafia; look at the number of kills.
If SKs don't submit a kill, someone is chosen randomly by the mod.
This mechanism doesn't appear to apply to mafia.

So unless wishbone stopped kills, or scum tried to kill the same people at the same time, its possible that a massclaim will answer why there were no kills in previous days?
Still we don't know which kills were from which scum. This looks like further reason for a RB claim at the least now.

I'd think the situation would be pretty obvious regarding the kills that happened:
Mafia killed Incamnito, Trotsky killed SWSWC and A&B tried to kill Frog Dodging but hit RW's protection. Second time mafia killed Yosariwen, sk's were lynched already. Yesterday mafia failed to kill: either they hit a protection or a block (though I'd think a RB would have claimed already) or then suffered from general organizational inaptitude, I'd think.

I'll get back to you soon.

[J-Scope]

Oh yeah, I'm stupid. It's been so long I forgot the original rules about action phases not being related to lynches.

So I don't have any idea what Zaphod's talking about.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

It's no arcane matter that I am not very into this game. No fault to this game in particular; I <3 Adel and think he's done great. Excessively long posts don't help, but the fire inside for Mafia is slowly getting doused, and a quick look at my activity on the site will make this evident. But I'm not scum, and my disdain for being lynched as town has helped me avoid it for 19 months now, for a total of 3, and I have no intention of changing that for this game. I also have never been replaced and refuse to go out by tainting that. So, I'm here to ride this out, but realize my lack of heavy involvement doesn't nail me down as scum.

The conviction in Ortolan's latest post is unsettling. None of what he said would lead me to see a positive link with such a degree of certainty. Particularly unsettling is his last bit about my placement of Zaphod & Ojanen because

_he_

doesn't see a link between the two. It was very obviously implied in my post that I didn't have a solid hold on Ojanen, and that it was more of a singular, gut-based feeling I had.

He is correct that many of my opinions have mirrored those of J-Scope's. However, this is merely coincidence and began around the time I started to attack Raging Wishbone over his Frog Dodging nonsense. I disliked the same thing about ZMD, and had been gunning for them both since then. If I recall correctly, J-Scope had several other reasons for attacking those two. Any lack of mention of J-Scope on my part is because I don't find him to be particularly scummy. There are several other players who I have mentioned very minimally. Bonus points if you can name them.

At various times earlier in the game you state you don't see the case on zaphod from trotsky or others. Judging your recent reads post it would appear you have changed your mind about them. Are their back and forth reads on ZMD your only reason? How does this relate to your early game read of Zaphod?

No, I said that I didn't think Zaphod's interaction with and reaction to Trotsky made them scum, and this was more or less in response to someone bringing it up.

You get off RW's wagon and vote trotsky as trotsky's wagon is picking up before page 12. You were the 4th vote on RW and the 4th vote on Trotsky at that point. Is there any great reason you can give for thinking a wagon on Trotsky would go through over your wagon on RW? Why didn't you continue to try to push for an RW lynch when you clearly perfered it and needed the same number of votes?

This has been explained already. We were under the post constraint at that point, and closing in on the limit. I was pushing for a lynch to go through, and did not mind seeing Trotsky go. This was back when people were posting absurdly long posts. I didn't accurately count the votes, but things seemed to be moving towards Trotsky. And as such, I placed my vote where I felt it would most likely lead to a lynch I was not opposed to. It worked.

In that post You don't mention any strong suspicions on trotsky. The only time you mention an actual case for suspecting trotsky before that post is a month earlier here:

<Snip>

Did you think that alone was reason enough to lynch trotsky?

This was made by Springlullaby and, because of what I have said about there being virtually no communication between us, I don't know any more of why she placed that vote than what is in written in the post.

My

reason was more gut-based; I recall not liking Trotsky's complete detachment from the game, and unwillingness to fight the grim situation he was in. Not something I would have expected from roflcopter. But I didn't feel like spending hours sifting through posts just so I could match the intensity of this game and justify my vote to everyone else. Call that scummy if you please, but I don't have the fire inside to do it anymore.

Me and you had a discussion earlier. You said RW's unvote of A&B was a town tell. If I recall correctly you said it had something to do with RW wanting to utilize A&B's kill. How does this relate to your read of trotsky being scum for wanting to use the kill?

The point I attempted to make was that scum would be more likely, in a knee-jerk reaction, to get rid of a claimed vigilante. But I later agreed with you here.

Your main reasons for going after RW and ZMD were you believed the attack both had made on Frogdodging was a great misrepresentation. You sad earlier you believed RW was more guilty of the attack than ZMD because RW had done direct quoting of the post where frogdodge dealt with their mortality. When RW flipped Town it didn't seem to effect your main standing reasons.

No, it didn't, because Raging Wishbone's entire game-play had been messier than an interstate pileup. Looking back, just about every move he made was illogical, particularly his complete reversal of appropriate response to Frog Dodging after he was almost certainly a contributing factor in them not biting the big one. So, just because

he

bought into idiocy didn't excuse ZMD from the same.

You aslo mention you had other things and then undermine that logic by saying it doesn't hold that much weight. I don't think you really had any other strong reasons for going after them. Can you explain why you were willing to continue going after ZMD for the same main reasons you went after RW when you said ZMD was less guilty of it? Can you also state if there were truly other things that you actually felt strongly about?

Again, "other things" is referring to general vibes that I did not feel like pursuing or justifying in the eyes of others. "Less guilty" also does not mean "not guilty." It means Raging Wishbone is of higher priority. With him out of the picture, ZMD raised rank in the queue of scumbaggedness.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I know it's working backwards, but I see no compelling reason to let nyballs live one more day.

[Ojando]

I know it's working backwards, but I see no compelling reason to let nyballs live one more day.

This is pretty extreme considering we're pretty near to lylo and you've never really mentioned suspecting nyball before as far as an iso skim told me.

What did you mean by the THIS IS IMPORTANT thing?

This has been explained already. We were under the post constraint at that point, and closing in on the limit. I was pushing for a lynch to go through, and did not mind seeing Trotsky go. This was back when people were posting absurdly long posts. I didn't accurately count the votes, but things seemed to be moving towards Trotsky. And as such, I placed my vote where I felt it would most likely lead to a lynch I was not opposed to. It worked.

The thing is, the 13 page limit was a line people wanted to draw but in a way an arbitrary one game mechanically. You said you're not "entirely opposed" to a Trotsky lynch although preferred RW, you didn't count the votes carefully, you acted on impression that things were moving towards Trotsky. It just seems like eagerness at getting any lynch (mislynch at that from mafia pov).

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I know it's working backwards, but I see no compelling reason to let nyballs live one more day.

This is pretty extreme considering we're pretty near to lylo and you've never really mentioned suspecting nyball before as far as an iso skim told me.

It is extreme. I think PoketheAlpaca is town. Everything else is a blur. Nyballs in particular seems disenganged. Maybe to the point of forgetting to send in a kill?

You said you're not "entirely opposed" to a Trotsky lynch although preferred RW, you didn't count the votes carefully, you acted on impression that things were moving towards Trotsky. It just seems like eagerness at getting any lynch (mislynch at that from mafia pov).

That was a divergence of opinion between my hydra heads. Plum wasn't so keen on Trotsky begin scum and I (DGB) was as convinced as humanly possible. Our disagreement was such that Plum unvoted without me realizing it.

[Ojando]

I know it's working backwards, but I see no compelling reason to let nyballs live one more day.

It is extreme. I think PoketheAlpaca is town. Everything else is a blur. Nyballs in particular seems disenganged. Maybe to the point of forgetting to send in a kill?

PtA seems townish to me too, but you seem to be jumping to supporting a lynch in mylo on someone you previously didn't express suspicion of because ýou think the case comes from town.
The "maybe forgetful" argument seems a little funny: if there's a doctor, it seems you would want to draw him out now instead of tomorrow or then not be interested in seeing if there's a claim at all. I'm not sure you even checked nyball's activity, cause looks like he posted when Zmd was L-1.

The second part of your post is a misunderstanding: the quote is from me and directed towards nyball.

[Ojando]

At various times earlier in the game you state you don't see the case on zaphod from trotsky or others. Judging your recent reads post it would appear you have changed your mind about them. Are their back and forth reads on ZMD your only reason? How does this relate to your early game read of Zaphod?

No, I said that I didn't think Zaphod's interaction with and reaction to Trotsky made them scum, and this was more or less in response to someone bringing it up.

Actually I think PtA's point is valid and your description isn't accurate.

To this I add that I don't see the case on Zaphod and don't like the way trostky has been pushing it. Plus, I don't think DGB is cynical enough to use emotional blackmail as scum to get out of trouble, so my read of her is town at the moment.

Iso 2 you call PtA's case on Zaphod weak and state a specific point that is weak.

Korts' vote for Zaphod in post 183 does not look sincere, as it is one of few things he comments on despite the massive amount of content in the game up to that point.

On Zaphod Beeblebrox, I see the case being pushed against them as wobbly. I could see town do the 'gloating' at the sk lynch too.

Iso 8 half the reason of voting Trotsky is "useless tunneling on Zaphod".
Then iso 12 you say

While it's legitimate for you to believe this, I have seen, in other games(from town DGB at least) this apparent outspoken ignorance to what seems obvious occurrences in the game. That's not a point in their favor but rather a lack of a point against. That said, the inconsistency in Zaphod's attacks leave me unsettled. I don't really think their interaction with Trotsky is very telling.

with the inconsistency as the only thing against Zaphod after a pro-Zaphod history.
And iso 14 zaphod has landed as "scum" on your read list.