Advertising Mafia - Over, see 1183

[curiouskarmadog]

WTF?....have only skimmed...will try to comment later.

[Korts]

Adel will be replaced as per his request.

Note the change to Rule (4):

⁽⁴⁾ I don't mind profanity, but respect your fellow players. As a mod, I will only take action if the offended party PMs me with their objections; I request that any such PMs include the list of offending posts, so that I can make a decision.

As such, if I don't get any PM, I will go with the assumption that there has been no offense. Since this present issue seems to have been resolved with Adel's replacement, I will take no further action unless you PM me with specific complaints.

[Korts]

(3) Adel- Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog

(3) SensFan- Budja, scotmany12, Adel

not voting:

vollkan, Ojanen, TDC, Goatrevolt, SensFan, Yosarian2

7 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST August 22.

[Korts]

Ojanen has been prodded.

[Ren Hoek]

Drama, wow. Adel referring to me as

a %#*

er was over the top, his leaving the site is sad and surprising.

Either Adel was a frustrated townie, or a frustrated scum.

Adel is very proud of his recent winning record, and ability to avoid being lynched. If he felt he was about to be lynched, he'd be disappointed, but not to this extent. However, if his team was losing, and bickering internally, if he felt his scumbuddies were incompetent (which might mean we are on the right track with our suspicions), he might take his ball and go home.

Railing against me, then voting SensFan looks like desperate "trying to mix things up with wild signs" that we'll interpret later. I would be surprised if Adel took pains to bus a buddy before leaving, therefore, should Adel flip scum, I should think that SensFan is indeed town.

If Adel flips scum, I hope the bickering was not about bussing, which is often a source of sour feelings in scum teams, because that's going to make our lives more difficult. It could very well be, and that worries me.

I read the outburst and looked for clues of townie outrage, such as, "I'm doing all the work here," "how could you be stupid enough to want to lynch me," and the classic: "the SCUM is trying to lynch me, town, wake up!" The lack of signs of TOWN frustration is glaring.

The outburst points to (to put numbers on my gut feelings) 80% scum, 20% town.

We should still lynch Adel. I pity the replacement.

[Korts]

From: budja@genericads-mis.com
To: All Departments
CC: -
Subject: Uh

Guys, we're another man down. I was about to go consult T.D.C. about an idea I had for Thugs'R'Us, but, well, he's not in a creative mood. Like, there's a paper spike sticking out of his forehead. The sight's completely ruined my trip.

Muah muah
Budja

---

Morning Subphase is over 48 hours late.

TDC, Copywriter, killed Day 2

[TDC]

blergh.

[Korts]

(3) Adel- Ren Hoek, OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog

(3) SensFan- Budja, scotmany12, Adel

not voting:

vollkan, Ojanen, Goatrevolt, SensFan, Yosarian2

6 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST August 22.

[scotmany12]

I agree that Adel's outburst is pretty much a nulltell. However, his vote on Sens bothers me, and yes Goat, there is a lot of WIFOM in the way you are thinking. At this point i'm leaing towards lynching Adel, but Sens needs to say something. Preferable soon.

[Ojanen]

I got prodded.
I'm on page 15. I'll use tonight to get through the rest.
Said I would be ready on Wed., sorry for needing this long.

[Ren Hoek]

An outburst is a null-tell. However the manner and content of said outburst is a scum-tell in my opinion, though I realize most players won't agree.

TDC is an odd choice, but I'm glad he's gone since he wasn't participating much, and as such, was suspiciously hard to read. Thank you scum.

TDC wasn't much of a threat on anyone. Why would scum kill such an inconspicuous white bread player? This suggests that (1) the scum might like challenges, Adel comes to mind, or (2) the better, more aggressive players are scum, as in, why wasn't Adel killed? or (3) there's a better explanation that I haven't considered.

[Korts]

MichelSableheart replaces Adel effective immediately.

[MichelSableheart]

Hello everyone, reporting in.

I have quite a bit of reading to do, a relevant post will follow when I've read everything. I hope to have read (not studied) all relevant threads tomorrow evening. In the meantime, if there are any questions you want me to answer, actions you want me to take, or if there's anything else I should be aware of, feel free to post so.

[Yosarian2]

Adel is very proud of his recent winning record, and ability to avoid being lynched. If he felt he was about to be lynched, he'd be disappointed, but not to this extent. However, if his team was losing, and bickering internally, if he felt his scumbuddies were incompetent (which might mean we are on the right track with our suspicions), he might take his ball and go home.

I don't believe Adel would do that. Getting replaced out because you think you're going to lose is an incredibly wimpy move.

Railing against me, then voting SensFan looks like desperate "trying to mix things up with wild signs" that we'll interpret later.

Really? Because both votes made perfect sense to me.

[scotmany12]

Adel is very proud of his recent winning record, and ability to avoid being lynched. If he felt he was about to be lynched, he'd be disappointed, but not to this extent. However, if his team was losing, and bickering internally, if he felt his scumbuddies were incompetent (which might mean we are on the right track with our suspicions), he might take his ball and go home.

I don't believe Adel would do that. Getting replaced out because you think you're going to lose is an incredibly wimpy move.

Railing against me, then voting SensFan looks like desperate "trying to mix things up with wild signs" that we'll interpret later.

Really? Because both votes made perfect sense to me.

...How exactly does the Sens vote make sense to you Yos? This is the same person that said on several occasions that he believes Sens to be town. I don't really see how Sens not posting for about a day would make him change his mind. His Sens vote is bad, and I don't know how you can view it a sensical.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, now that someoen has been killed, I can finally discuss my other suspects.

Sensfan is still high on the list, mostly for reasons I explained yesterday. Other people who seem likely scum to me:

Ojanen: Lurker replacing a lurker. Always a bad sign, especally since crywolf didn't look especally town back when she was in the game. I hope to hear from him soon.

I had previously thought Budja looked town. However, I really don't like the way that, once other people started to say they suspected me, he suddenly and oppertunistically flipped and made a case on me; and then when I pointed out that his case against me was completly untrue, he vanished, and is now lurking. He's moved down to the scummy side of the list.

As for the current factional combat going on here; I think it's fairly likely that OGML and Adel are both town butting heads; Adel seems pretty obviously pro-town to me, and while I'm not quite so confident on OGML, I'm going to take the very agressivly scumhunting way he came charging into the game as a (moderate) town tell coming from him, even though I think he's wrong in many of his assumptions. If that's the case, then I would expect scum to be falling in line behind one of the two of them and trying to keep the conflict going; probably either Ren or CKD are the two who look worst as far as that goes.

[Yosarian2]

...How exactly does the Sens vote make sense to you Yos? This is the same person that said on several occasions that he believes Sens to be town.

Consistancy is a scum tell.

Town can and should always be willing to change their minds 180 degrees in the blink of an eye when given new information, or just when re-assesing old information. In fact, it's generally better if they do; makes it harder for scum to manipulate town using the nightkill to keep those alive who trust them and kill those who don't. The only people who should be worried about consistancy are scum, because they're more worried about being lynched then about how they look.

In this case, I think Adel's sudden flip on Sensfan makes sense, and I also think it was a very pro-town thing to do. For one thing, if Sens does flip scum, then the way people reacted to Adel's sudden change of heart will give us lots of information, I think.

[scotmany12]

...How exactly does the Sens vote make sense to you Yos? This is the same person that said on several occasions that he believes Sens to be town.

Consistancy is a scum tell.

Town can and should always be willing to change their minds 180 degrees in the blink of an eye when given new information, or just when re-assesing old information. In fact, it's generally better if they do; makes it harder for scum to manipulate town using the nightkill to keep those alive who trust them and kill those who don't. The only people who should be worried about consistancy are scum, because they're more worried about being lynched then about how they look.

In this case, I think Adel's sudden flip on Sensfan makes sense, and I also think it was a very pro-town thing to do. For one thing, if Sens does flip scum, then the way people reacted to Adel's sudden change of heart will give us lots of information, I think.

It would make sense if he gave a legit reason for his change of heart. He didn't. All Sens had did was not post in like a day, something he has done previously in this game. Sens didn't do anything new that was scummy. Adel had no reason for the change of heart on Sens. There was no new information to change Adel's mind. His vote on Sens, someone he has been adamant in defending and stating he was town, makes no sense.

[scotmany12]

Railing against me, then voting SensFan looks like desperate "trying to mix things up with wild signs" that we'll interpret later.

Really? Because both votes made perfect sense to me.[/quote]
Also, the Ren vote was ridiculous and scummy. The constant attempt to discredit Ren by both Adel and you, Yos, is scummy and not protown.

[Yosarian2]

Also, the Ren vote was ridiculous and scummy. The constant attempt to discredit Ren by both Adel and you, Yos, is scummy and not protown.

Scot...if town "confirms" a scum, if town decides that a specific person MUST be town, and is wrong, then town basically always loses because of it.

You are pretty close to confirmed. Goat is pretty close to confirmed. Ren is not. It always makes me nervous when people start declaring someone to be 100% confirmed town when they're not, because that can be a devistatingly effective scum tactic if the town buys into it.

I realize that attacking Ren will make people suspect me more here, at least unless and until Ren flips scum, but I don't care; I am going to continue to say what I think. And I think that the "ren is 100% confirmed town now and anyone who dares to doubt him must be scum" argument is garbage.

I would also say that the reasons Adel gave for his Ren vote are much, much more convicing and logical to me then any reasons anyone has thus far given for voting Adel.

[Yosarian2]

Also, this post

I don't have much time but

The more they try to discredit Ren, the more they look like scum.

vote: Ren Hoek

is fucking awesome.

[scotmany12]

Also, this post

I don't have much time but

The more they try to discredit Ren, the more they look like scum.

vote: Ren Hoek

is fucking awesome.

No it's not. And I'm now convinced that you are now scum with Adel yos. There is no way someone of your caliber Yos would look at the points against Adel and say they aren't logical or convicining. Also, I missed this earlier, but the fact that you said CKD looks the worst (I'm ignoring the Ren statement, it is irrelevant at this point) when CKD actually made a decent case on Adel is condemning. You are no way playing how I would expect you too as town.

Unvote, Vote: Adel

[Yosarian2]

There is no way someone of your caliber Yos would look at the points against Adel and say they aren't logical or convicining.

I'm looking at the posts Adel made and I can see that he's looking at the game the exact same way that I am, and he's making more sense to me then anyone else in the game is, which means he probably has the same alignment I do.

Also, I missed this earlier, but the fact that you said CKD looks the worst (I'm ignoring the Ren statement, it is irrelevant at this point) when CKD actually made a decent case on Adel is condemning. You are no way playing how I would expect you too as town.

Hah.

There are 3 people really attacking Adel here; OGML, Ren, and CKD. I think OGML's actions, his agressivness and scumhunting, seem townish to me, and in line with his meta. However, this Adel wagon is so clearly terrible that I would have trouble beliving it's not pushed by scum right now.

I'm not at all convicned by CKD's case against Adel; more to the point, if I'm right and Adel is town, the timing of CKD's case, coming after OGML got the wagon moving, makes me think he's likely scum here.

[scotmany12]

Yos, TDC dying is a major point against you.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, TDC dying is a major point against you.

?

How is that?