Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[hiphop]

Don't know anybody here, so to start something:

vote:dank

for being at the top of the list, nothing personal.
We will see what this will do.

[hiphop]

vote:idiotking

for having the second vote on someone after he just said the reason he is voting for dank is because dank had the second vote.

[hiphop]

I didn't put anyone at L-4. I put someone at L-5. Seven to lynch.

unvote

@Zachrulez
I don't like hiphop music, I just like the username, should I vote for myself? And, no I won't vote for myself, so don't answer the question that way.

[hiphop]

I am sorry, I was looking at the wrong part of the post. You are right. Anyways I unvoted, so it doesn't matter right now. I thought I was only the second.

[hiphop]

Bye bye RVS. You died in record time.

Actually when looking at Idiot King's post:

Holy bandwagon, Batman!

unvote

What's with the rapid dogpile on jason?

I'm confused. Normally you would unvote when you see a bandwagon forming if you were part of that bandwagon. You voted for danks first though not jason.

@ idiotking it is almost like you don't want to be voting for someone else, if the bandwagon ends in lynch. This looks scummy to me. However there are some people who haven't posted yet, Ryan2754 and Redcoyote, so conclusions should not be drawn yet.
Since Ryan already has a vote on him I will

vote:redcoyote

at least until he makes his first post.

[hiphop]

@DeathRowKitty Actually I don't think they are scummier. I believe they are just lurkers, and I despise lurkers. They make the game less fun for everybody else, and they hurt the side that they are with. Their posts no matter how small can give us more activity and more discussion. I am waiting for them to post, but that does not mean I won't be active in trying to locate the rest of the scum.
As for idiotking, right now I believe he is scum number 1, but that is my opinion, and I would rather have him give him time to give us his opinion on why he unvoted and did not vote for someone else.

[hiphop]

First of all, my case for idiotking being scum number 1, well he unvoted for someone, and his reason was that people were bw another person. What little evidence that is nobody else has more, so that makes him scum number 1. I didn't see this at first until dtm pointed it out.

As for why I am not voting for him, it is because he already has two votes on him, and I don't want scum to pounce on him without giving himself a chance to defend for himself. As I already explained I didn't know he had three votes on him.

Why I am voting for someone else, because he should at least have as long as someone else

who hasn't posted yet

. As far as I am concerned they haven't done anything yet to prove they are scum or town, and they are not giving me the fair chance of deciding whether they are scum or town.

The reason I voted for him in the first place was because of an abstract reason, the same as what everybody else was doing at that time.

Any questions I didn't answer yet?

[hiphop]

unvote
vote ryan

No, I unvoted, because than I too thought it was just a random vote that needed more thinking.

@deathrowkitty what do you think would of happened to me if I hadn't even posted yet? I wouldn't have any suspicious drawn on to me. Which is why I don't like lurkers. They think they can float under the radar.

@ dank I never said he was scum. When I said he was scum number 1, I meant that he was the guy that I was most suspicious of.

@everyone. FYI there are more than one scum in the game, so keep looking. At least I am staying active.

@zach. It has only been a couple of days, not even half our required time. And that lurker is as suspicious as anyone else. I would of kept my vote on idiotking, but I dislike lurkers more.

[hiphop]

I would most likely say 3 or 4 scum members.

As for activity proving that one is not scum, I don't believe it either. Scum would no doubt act like town. All I meant by activity, is that it makes the game more fun for everybody else.

[hiphop]

I would most likely say 3 or 4 scum members.

As for activity proving that one is not scum, I don't believe it either. Scum would no doubt act like town. All I meant by activity, is that it makes the game more fun for everybody else.

While I do agree, more posts make for a fun game... but looking at people who have not posted yet would have been inpossible as we only have to go on what is posted in game if you understand what I mean.

Yes, it is annoying.. but I cant equate not posting to being scummy. However I can see how it is Anti-town. Just not scummy.

Even though it isn't scummy, it is still hurts the town, because it is anti-town.

[hiphop]

3 games, all theme based, so not much. I am learning as I go. So please critique me anyway you can.

[hiphop]

That's 5. All I have to say right now is that I am town, that is just my style of play.

[hiphop]

the first unvoting was inexperience.

[hiphop]

the first unvoting was inexperience.

Y'know, by your third game I think you'd start to know what's a good move and what's a bad move.

except that this is the first game I played without a cc.

@ toro even if I was pulling a fast one, it didn't work, because nobody unvoted me. Live and learn I guess.

I must be scums greatest dream. I would think that if I was scum, my buddies would of defended of me, before this got out of hand.

By the way Ryan still hasn't posted yet, and there is a little more than 12 hours left, I believe.

[hiphop]

Congrats to dtm, and shrine for looking elsewhere, besides me.

At least they are trying to start an activity, because this discussion has stalled, is it because you guys are waiting for everybody to vote me? It may happen or it may not. Keep your votes on me if that makes you satisfied, at least point your finger of suspicion at some other scum activities as well. Could it possibly be because there are no other suspicious actions that have not been pointed out? As Dtm pointed out, the rvs ended in record time, perhaps that needs to be started again. By the way Zach, why did you put the third random vote on Jason?

@Dtm Toro said he was agreeing to #24, as in Jason, not his points. His avatar has a 24 on the helmet.

I will take my vote off of Ryan, because he is either going to be replaced, and I want to give the person who replaces him a chance, or he eventually will post anyways, and I will probably unvote then anyways.

unvote

vote:Toro

just a hunch right now may come back with reasons later.

[hiphop]

One must realize that I am scum or town. I can’t be both. If I am scum then there might be suspicion on shrine, deathrow, dtm, for unvoting me, if I am lynched.

I am not scum, and because I am not scum, the scum would realize I would be an easy lynch. Nobody, and I mean nobody would of questioned anybody if they put votes enough to get a lynch of me. I was at L-2, and if there were two scum members left they would have voted for me and I would of been a townie that was lynched. Therefore there could be a max of only one

active

scum member left that didn’t vote for me. So I thought that most of the scum must be already voting for me. The reason I have a suspicion of Toro is he was the fifth vote on me. He is following the bandwagon, and reiterating points already made against me. He seems to be over anxious to have me lynched. One can say the same thing of Jason, but at least his points are points that he thought of.

As for Ryan’s post if he makes posts that long, that is enough for ten posts, and he can wait that long to make another post if he wants to. At least now we have a post from everybody.

@redcoyote I will try to calm down to the best of my ability.

[hiphop]

He is the 5th vote not the seventh, that is close to the middle is it not?

Another mistake on my part, I guess, about you voting.

[hiphop]

@ryan Everything you said on me is the truth how can I defend against it. I unvoted without reason, I did not revote, claimed inexperience about unvoting, I voted lurkers, without voting most suspicious, and I voted Toro, called it a hunch then, and later gave a reason. This last part I didn't have time to give a reason at that moment to explain why, because I had to go.

You didn't ask a question, so I don't know what you want me to respond about.

[hiphop]

@ paradoxombie They are not even at this site they are at http://forums.utopiatemple.com/forumdisplay.php?f=26
Pip squeek says Mafia, that game never finished, Final Fantasy VI Mafia, replacement at the end, and currently playing World of Warcraft Mafia.
On this site I am playing http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0 as a replacement in a beginner’s mafia

@shrine The inexperience part was not the unvoting, I unvoted because, as I explained before, it was just a random vote. The inexperience part was not revoting.

[hiphop]

To me it was random. To me, the vote had a reason, without having a reason. If that makes sense to you.

[hiphop]

I meant what I said. I didn't revote did I? I believe I should of revoted then, or not unvoted until I was ready to revote.

[hiphop]

Think of it this way. Your first vote

vote:Idiotking

I laughed so much at the name I am voting him

It had a reason, but technically that doesn't mean that idiotking was scum. So really your post had no reason for a vote of idiotking. Mine was the same way.

[hiphop]

What I'm more concerned about right now is two groups of people:
1) people who are trying to force the hiphop issue.
2) people who are trying to not to appear to be hiphop-hunting.

I believe you just hit the nail on the head.

[hiphop]

Edit: Death RowKitty wrote that quote not Dank.

[hiphop]

Honestly, I believe there could be 1... if not 2 opertunistic scum who got onto that wagon off hiphops.

Can you speculate who of that group sticks out to you?

[hiphop]

Hey mod unless I missed something, Toro did not vote for himself. You posted this on the last two vote counts. By the way mod I am loving this game. It kind of fits the title.

[hiphop]

@dtm concerning 123, At the point I wasn't sure if the rvs was even over. The only reason I knew to random vote in the first place was because I looked at the beginning of the other mini games. I didn’t know how far you carried it. So I believe I should have revoted again.

About the 125, the idiotking vote was a random vote. I said in 51 it was random, but everybody kept questioning me about it, so I tried to explain it a different way.

@ryan As it says in the newbie guide, “Generally, players will vote for someone they think is Mafia” if you think, based on what I said, I am the most likely candidate to be the mafia, then so be it. I have tried explaining, but I can only go so far. Don’t you believe that sometimes a town can act scummy?

[hiphop]

@dank let me put it another way. If I were to make a list of most likely to be scum, I would make a list, with most suspicious on the top to probably not on the bottom. I would than number them from 1 to how many people are in the game. Therefore when I said scum number 1, I meant the top of my list.

I understand what you might think it meant, but that is not how I intended it to mean. There is no way that anyone can be that certain of scum, the way you thought it means, on day one, until the scum are dead.

[hiphop]

@Toro You at the moment, for that is the reason I am voting for you, but that may change. A lot of things have happened for day 1, and most likely many more.

[hiphop]

I look back and find what I accused him of is not what you said I accused him of.

First of all, my case for idiotking being scum number 1, well he unvoted for someone, and his reason was that people were bw another person.

Compared to what you said in the next post.

So, you are fairly certain that Idiotking is "scum number 1" because he unvoted when a bandwagon was forming, yet don't want to vote him, the guy you confidently say is scum, because that'll build a bandwagon?

First, the way you make it sound, it sounds like he unvoted when he was in a bandwagon. I didn’t accuse him of that, I accused him of unvoting because a different bandwagon was forming.

Second I wouldn’t mind voting for someone who is at the top of my list, even if it is in a bandwagon. I asked him a question and I was expecting an answer, just like ryan did, before I was going to vote for him. I found his explanation satisfied me, to the point that he no longer was “scum number 1.”

[hiphop]

Is it just me or do Toro, Jason, and idiotking, seem to be connected in a way? Jason get bw right off the bat. Idiotking notices the bw and draws attention to it with this post:

Holy bandwagon, Batman!

unvote

What's with the rapid dogpile on jason?

To me it seems that he wants to call attention to it, so that people realize that it is a bw and they will unvote. In post 53, Jason comments on my 4 points, explaining why I am scum. Post 54 Toro agrees with Jason and says something is fishy, so that in his next post (post 61) he votes for me. None of these people have even attacked each other once. The only time they did attack each other was in the rvs, and they did it with a smile. It is the same thing that ryan said idiotking and I were doing in the rvs.

I can't quite put into words what I mean. It seems like hiphop attacking IK without really attacking him. Sort of a buddying proposition that later he can say: "look, I found him suspicious earlier" type thing. I had no trouble understanding IK's vote reasoning about him being the FIRST one to place a second vote, but it seems hiphop misses it, possibly on purpose, and then IK gives a fairly level-headed response, with a smiley. It just comes off as an early form of buddying. Nothing too intense, agains just a vibe.

If he said I and idk were doing it, than those three were definitely doing it more.

Hiphop: Unvotes when called out; revotes a lurker right after Paradoxombie asks why he unvoted and subsequently didn't place another vote somewhere else; attempts to go back to RVS (a form of deflection); claims inexperience, which can only take you so far; worrying about L-3/L-4; Hypocritical on IK's unvote, where he did the same thing; deflecting onto lurkers on PAGE 3; would rather vote lurkers than scum number 1; after voting a "lurker", takes his vote off before allowing said lurker to post, which goes against his strategy to lurker hunt; votes toro without reasons, and says its a hunch.

@Ryan I didn’t unvote when called out. You can have your own opinion, because I already explained mine. You do have to explain why I am hypocritical on Ik’s unvote, because I don’t believe I am. The only reason I unvoted you, because apparently you were not going to post just because I was voting for you. You said yourself once someone knows that someone is targeting them, because they haven’t posted, they are less likely to post, if they have nothing to hide. I am a very impatient guy, as you can see by my many posts, and want to see some activity. So I gave up on targeting you and went against Toro. I also gave a reason for voting toro, which I didn’t have time to do that night.

Right now, I'm leaning toward VI over scum (sorry hiphop)

@ DRK if that is the way you feel, so be it.

[hiphop]

By the way Jason, you still haven't told us who could be scum on that bw. Here I will put down names:
Dtmaster, Dank, Zachrulez, DeathRowKitty, and Toro.
If there is at least one scum on this bw you have at least a 20% chace of picking the correct person.

[hiphop]

Oh, I have been trying to be cautious and be sure with my vote because I thought not being 100% sure on my vote would actually be hurtful and dangerous to the town.

If the deadline were to be coming up in a couple of hours, what would you do? Who would you vote for? That is probably a good question for anyone who hasn't voted yet.

[hiphop]

Trying too, but I believe idk is criticizing every comment against him. He blowing things out of proportion. I don't think Shrine even wants to.

[hiphop]

Probably. To me being anti-town and being scum mean the same thing. If you hurt the town, you deserve to be suspected. If you hurt the town and then lie about it, you deserve to be lynched.

What you did with the quotewar is absolutely anti-town. DRK might as well as post the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. If you wanted to say a point say it and be done with it. So if anti-town and scum are the same thing than:

vote:idiotking

[hiphop]

I believe that quote wars blow everything out of proportion. They begin to argue about the argument, and not about what the original post is about. It is anti-town. Shrine has complained about wall-to-wall posts, and asked to only summarize the argument, and only expand in dire need. I saw no dire need here. It also will make it harder for don_Johnson to catch up. In being that I believe that it was anti-town, drk commented on anti-town being scummy and not scum. Idk said anti-town was scum. I was using his argument against him for a reason for my vote.

As for blowing it out of proportion drk was willing to stop the argument, while idk would of continued to his grave.

[hiphop]

mod: does my vote count even though you spelled my name wrong?

*It won't if you keep complaining, hihop...

[hiphop]

@idk When I am at school, I like to keep the window open, so that I can peek in when the teacher isn’t looking, I don’t have time to make a substantial post.

What do you want to hear my thoughts on? You? Your most recent post? Alignment? First day activity?

My opinion on you is that you are willing to be lynched, just to prove your point. You believe that rc should be lynched, since you believe he lied. With your recent posts it is like you are telling the town, nobody, but rc should be lynched, because he lied. People call me a hypocrite, in this thread, which is calling me a liar. Why didn’t you push on me as much as you have pushed on rc? The only time you have commented to me is when I have made a comment against you. You could have made your case against rc in your first post, as soon as it came to your attention. The idea is to look for scum, not clutter the thread with unimportant information. Make your case and be done with it. Did you believe that you could have changed rc’s mind with all of those quotes? I will tell you one thing people will decide on which side of the case to choose, because you both can’t be scum.

I believe that the idea of day one is to show alignment. If someone with ties is lynched alignment will show more clearly who scum is and who is town, based on support. There is no way to be 100% sure someone is scum, until that person is killed. I saw drk’s top three you, Jason, and me. The person on the bottom of his list(not known) can easily be scum, so obviously this is just who he thinks is scummy. As an example of alignment, with the recent argument, I can clearly say that if you are scum, I doubt that drk and rc are scum as well, unless you are a Sk. If you want to know who are the top three of my list:
1. Idk
2. Drk, the only reason he is not 1 is because you believe that anti-town is scum, while he doesn’t. Otherwise you both would be at the top.
3. Jason, still hasn’t given his opinion on who he thinks is scum on the bw.
I gave my three who are yours?

Even scum can make a solid case nothing on day one is foolproof. Nobody but you thinks that somebody deserves to be lynched on day 1. The only reason that somebody should be lynched can only be based on the gut feeling of the town. All one can do is speculate. Posts have been made. Day 1 is the day that alignments are made. By the way Idk, can you also tell who you think might be town?

I do believe that the mod is only getting sadder because there are a few lurkers lately. Certainly not because of idk, and drk.

[hiphop]

@idk You said that you didn’t push on me because I already built a case on me, then why are you pushing on me now? Is it because I am looking more innocent and you want to put me back on the defensive, or is it because you are that bored?

You said that the only reason that you didn’t state your case in the beginning is because you didn’t have a case then. You also complained that rc didn’t state his case in a timely manner. Can’t it be said that rc was building his case as you were building your case, except that his took longer?

You also said that in your first post against rc you were posing a question and wanting a response, can’t this be said about rc’s vote for dank, posing a vote and wanting a response?

Since DRK, RC, and I are your top three, if Drk is lynched, and it is known that he is town, would you still push for rc’s and my lynch? What about me? RC? What if two of us are lynched and they are both town, would you still push for the third?

@ryan Due to the recent events am I still the most suspicious to you?

@Drk Why did you go that far into the quote wars, before calling it quits, couldn’t you see it wasn’t going anywhere?

@Shrine I asked in an earlier post to be critiqued. Idk is doing me a favor if anything.

@idk again, Have fun.

mod: Dank is no longer in the game. His vote for toro should be dons

Noted. Thought I had done it. I seriously need to eliminate the unhealthy personalities before I go totally crazy...

[hiphop]

Pushing for a lynch of someone, because of info is very scummy indeed. You migh as well as lynch someone with the most ties, because he will give the most info.

[hiphop]

So you'd rather the town have no info on D2?

I never said that. You believe that I am scum, yet you don't vote for me? When do you plan on pushing for my lynch? You said that I have no ties. So no matter who you lynch your opinion that I am scum will not change. If I am the most suspicious will it really matter if I am lynched day 1 and your next suspicious lynched day 2? I don't think so. I still am sticking with the person who I believe is scum. That is where your logic is wrong.

[hiphop]

@Jason You said before that there was someone on that bw on page three you thought could be scum, do you still feel this way or have you changed your mind? If you do feel that someone is most likely scum on that wagon, could you specify who? Toro? Zach? He was the only one who never left that wagon. Anyone else strikes your mind?

@Drk I know that idk ask you a question concerning whether rc is angelic, or a “scumbag”. You responded “If I had to pick, I would say RC is town.” I want to know, do you find rc suspicious in any way? Do you believe that there is a possibility that rc could be scum? Based on the info now, where is he on your list, near the top, middle, or near the bottom? If the deadline were coming up in a few hours, and there were six votes for him, would you vote for him or let the deadline pass?

[hiphop]

It is really slow, without an idk post, and with some players V/La.

When do you think don should be able to make his first substantial post?

We still have at least a week to point as many fingers as necessary.

What bothers me about IDK is that he doesn’t seem to have any major ties. If he is scum he should have some ties. Anyone want to comment on this?

[hiphop]

@drk You said martyr for his cause. There are two ways he can martyr for. His cause could be for the scum. How do not know that, if he is mafia, he is willing to die to throw suspicion away from his buddies? You said that I am the the only possibillity, right now. If he is lynched and he turns out scum, no doubt more suspcion would be thrown my way. Then again that is all WIFOM. I lose no matter what happens. I still think he is scum, so my vote remains.

[hiphop]

@DTM My vote is for idk based on my gut, you can tell everybody that is my vote. You think I slipped it in the quote wars just to hide it. I did not mean to hide it, if that is what you are referring to. However, I am having second thoughts on it though. Idk is willing to be a martyr fo his cause. This does not make sense to me, because once he dies, he automtically loses no matter whether he is scum or not(unless like drk said he is a jester). Than again he could be saying he wants to be lynch so that he is not lynched. All WIFOM. So I say we should still lynch him. He wants to be lynched to prove his cause, so why not vote for him?

@DRK It is your vote not mine. It is your decision to do with whatever you want to do with it. I will list the three most suspicious groups if the is ok with you. Just think about who belongs to each group.

idk group, rc group, and zach group.

If you want me to explain a group ask.
Think about that.

@Don Please hurry.

[hiphop]

Hiphop, your scumnet seems cast almost too wide. But I must admit I feel weird narrowing my suspects down based on the info we have. It may be 14 pages but I feel like I have almost nothing because so much of that is the same players. But this may just be experience talking, as I often feel like day one is practically a shot in the dark.

That is the whole concept. I believe that I can cast anyone in one of these groups. Though some may be half way in both. Everybody has a chance to being scum, so everybody is included. The head of these groups, though zach is a bit iffy, imo if lynched, and information would be shed about the others. Lynching day one

is

a shot in the dark.

[hiphop]

Hiphop. Why didn't you say it was a gut, but repeated all the same arguments before your IK vote. I find it a bad attempt to appear pro-town with just repeatition, and I find it scummy since it looks like you have nothing to contribute. (I'll quote when I get home)

But those arguments contribute to my gut.

[hiphop]

Am I the only one who is irritated by how far Idiot King has taken this random vote accusation with Red Coyote?

@Zach What do you think we have been talking about since the quote wars ended? The weather?

I think Hiphop still deserves scrutiny.

What is stopping you?

@RC
Why did you put ryan closer to scum? The only thing I can get on him, is his relations to idk. He asks both idk, and me to defend ourselves, than he focuses directly on me(which he had a good reason for), but he doesn’t attack idk, after that. Almost like if idk is scum, he could say I suspected him from the beginning. This is all WIFOM. So, what is your opinion on him?

[hiphop]

@Jason
Let me get this straight, you said you don’t vote unless you are 100% sure someone is scum. So how do you feel on that vote on idk? 100%? There is no way you can be 100%, however I think it would be best to lynch idk. He wants to be lynched, so why not?

[hiphop]

@ryan I don't think gut votes are stupid at all. You can't prove anyone is scum on day one, no exceptions. What is your vote based on? My posts? Nobody here can say that the person they are voting for on day one is guaranteed scum. I see no proof at all; in fact, the odds of someone saying someone is scum and that person being scum is very slim. They have a better chance of saying someone is town.

You are saying that my posts are showing scum tells. That is only a matter of opinion, so basically your vote is based on gut. If this is so, I don’t know how you can say your vote isn’t stupid, since you said gut votes are stupid. Your opinion is your own. If you are stubborn, I can’t change that.

[hiphop]

@Zach perhaps you should look at post 354.

@RC I have become a scrapegoat, not almost. There is nothing I can do or say that will get me out of that situation. People are going to suspect me until I die or a cop gets an innocent on me.

@idk So far, who can say you are lurking?

Current post count:
IDK:65
DRK:60
Hiphop:50
DTMaster:45
Paradoxombie:31
Toro:28
Alexhans:27
Jason:21
Rc:15
Zach:14
Don/Dank:13
Shrine:12
Ryan:10

You have more posts than anyone.

[hiphop]

Hiphop I believe went off earlier just randomly going with his gut, and just throwing votes around without much real backing on it. He's doing the same here with his vote on IdiotKing.

I have got to use the FOS more.

[hiphop]

One scumtell (my FOS) does not warrant someone being a member of my suspect list. It is an accumulation of scumtells that make me suspicious of someone.

No wonder you have a losing record as a townie. You always are waiting for scum to make a “scum tell”(which is a matter of opinion), when sometimes are not anymore scummy than the town.

I have laid my case. No one has followed. Thus, it is fully obvious you are not the scapegoat as nobody seems to be blaming you.

You are wrong there, did you read what idk said in 385.

Yes, I feel townies, if they are town, should defend themselves, at all costs, in order to avoid a mislynch. I was expecting him to defend himself adequately, and explain what happened, not just keel over and die. No no theory discussion. Yes, I think people should defend themselves, even when they make mistakes in this game. Sure, they can address the mistake they made (as hiphop did), but there should still be some level of defense to their actions, not just a keel over and die mentality, which is anti-town.

Why should I try to defend myself to you? So that we can have another quotewar, basically saying that I made mistakes in the beginning, and should consent to the fact. I made it easy for you. I wasn’t going to argue my point to someone as stubborn as you. You wouldn’t change your mind anyways, especially concerning me.

[hiphop]

@don They are not trying to say the rvs isn't important, they are saying that you should not use the rvs as your only source of information. You seem to me as if you think the rvs is the most important part of the game. After I have read the entire game, I don't think that idk in the rvs is suspicious. If you read it you wouldn't think so either. You argue that the RVS is black and white. Well it isn't. Dtm did not say the rvs is unimportant, he said your vote is stupid.

You vote for dtm, because he argues that the rvs is not as important as you say it is, you might as well as vote for everybody who has posted after your random vote for idk. We all have done the same thing in one way or another.

The only good thing from your vote is you have generated activity.

@Drk I can claim as a PR too, does that mean I am one.

[hiphop]

You are wrong there, did you read what idk said in 385.

What does IK's 385 have to do with you being scapegoat and me laying my case. I am not seeing the connection.

I said you were wrong with me not being a scrapegoat, not about you laying your case.
Post 388 is where the scrapegoat term started from. You and zach keep it going over the same arguments, and now idk is going back. Even DRk is going back now.

Because you don't want to get lynched? No, you can easily defend yourself without spurring a quotewar. I am not actually that stubborn of a person. Yes, I would, but you seem to think defending yourself would be futile because you think I'm being stubborn.

First of all your first accusations were answered before you even commented on them, thus you are stubborn. So I didn’t bother answering them. If you read what other people has asked me you would have seen that they were answered. Thus you are that stubborn for bringing up old questions.

I would be supportive of an IK, Toro, or hiphop lynch.

Why the Toro lynch, I thought you said you didn’t understand the case?

*sigh*

Looks like everybody's suspicious of me. Why don't you just get this damn thing over with and lynch me already?

Then Don's vote will be

proven

to be a bullshit vote, DRK and RC will be shown to be tunneling me (I admit I'm tunneling them, but that doesn't mean I don't still see them as scum), and a whole lot of info will be gained for the town.

Is this OK with everyone? I'm tired of going around and around with this.

Roleclaim: Vanilla Townie

I won't even be missed. Just end this stupidity, please.

@Idk I would rather have it last to the last moment. You don’t have to play if you don’t want to. Ask for a replacement, or stick it out.

[hiphop]

Zach I think you need to unvote before you vote again.

[hiphop]

*sigh*

Looks like everybody's suspicious of me.

Why don't you just get this damn thing over with and lynch me already?

Then Don's vote will be

proven

to be a bullshit vote, DRK and RC will be shown to be tunneling me (I admit I'm tunneling them, but that doesn't mean I don't still see them as scum), and a whole lot of info will be gained for the town.

Is this OK with everyone? I'm tired of going around and around with this.

Roleclaim: Vanilla Townie

I won't even be missed. Just end this stupidity, please.

Fine.

Vote: Idiot King

I won't even get into the stupidity of claiming with only 2 votes on you.

I'm with Zach, it was a weird time to bring it up.

Vote: Idiotking

And our two active lurkers show up, when votes are needed.

[hiphop]

*sigh*

Looks like everybody's suspicious of me. Why don't you just get this damn thing over with and lynch me already?

Then Don's vote will be

proven

to be a bullshit vote, DRK and RC will be shown to be tunneling me (I admit I'm tunneling them, but that doesn't mean I don't still see them as scum), and a whole lot of info will be gained for the town.

Is this OK with everyone? I'm tired of going around and around with this.

Roleclaim: Vanilla Townie

I won't even be missed. Just end this stupidity, please.

Ever since this post, I have a feeling that he is more and more town. I think it would be better to keep him around for now.

My only problem is how will he play in the second day. Will he continue to scum hunt or will he keep repeating you guys should just lynch me? To me if he flips town, he can say in later games, “I told you. Maybe next time you will listen to me.” I still think he should ask for a replacement if he doesn’t try to scum hunt. For breathing room, before a lynch happens I will

unvote

If he is at L-1 when it is closer to the deadline, I would rather lynch him, than nobody.

Now I would rather concentrate on lynching Toro or Jason. Preferably Jason, he is the one that has been fence sitting, and has the most ties. He also is trying to break the tie between himself and Toro with the FOS.
For now,

Vote: Jason

.

@Zach we have 4 days, there is still plenty of time for votes. Why not place your vote and vote him in 508?

[hiphop]

And a Toro bandwagon is definitely not going to help this town get anywhere, trust me.

Why should we trust you? What have you done that actually helps the town?

@Paradoxombie You got it right, no need to clarify. This is my first game on this site.

i think you are most likely town, but i still think you are a good day 1 lynch. i'll move to jason, but i would rather be sure about you first so as to help qualify my suspicions of everyone now involved. anyone have a better idea?

dj- How can you think that lynching someone who most likely is town a good day? In fact how can you even keep your vote on someone who you think is most likely town? There are plenty of more options than to lynch someone whom you think is more likely scum. You sound as if you are pushing for his lynch purely for information. As I said in post 307, pushing for a lynch of someone purely for information is scummy.

Fos: don_Johnson

[hiphop]

@idk this is my first game on this site.

[hiphop]

But I also don't know how to act. You've been nothing but scummy. Toro has been nothing but scummy. Toro is on his second game on this site, you're on your first. You have more scumtells than Toro, but that could easily be because Toro hasn't said as much.

It seems to me that you have it narrowed down between me and Toro. Are Toro and I the two most likely candidates that you will push a lynch for? Or are there others?

[hiphop]

@idk I must follow up on the question that para asked you, because you didn’t answer it. I was thinking the same thing that he asked you when I read post 543. How is my vote opportunism? I unvoted because I was getting a town read from you. It would opportunism to stay because easily you would have been lynched. Drk would have without a doubt cast the hammer vote. I find it better to lynch Jason instead of you. You are looking too hard for a reason for my every post.

just because some of ik's recent actions make him look town, it shouldn't excuse his earlier play.

It is about time somebody told you happened on page 2,3,and 4 since you will not read them. I look the most suspicious on those pages, should I not be excused earlier play like IK?

[hiphop]

Should I have flipped town, you wouldn't have

anything

going for you. It's very possible for you to have unvoted simply to not show up on the final bandwagon. Given my opinion of your play/experience level, that wouldn't be hard to believe at all.

It wouldn't of mattered what you flipped. I could always of said I honestly had believed you were scum. I don't now, so I unvoted. There was only one person who openly said you were most likely scum and wasn’t voting for you, and that was Drk. I believed he would of cast the hammer vote eventually if my vote remained. I don’t think you would be lynched without my vote.

It's better to have people decide who's scummy based on their own feelings, not how many votes people have. By taking votes off, it would force others to make their own opinions. Of course, my unvote probably didn't help this much since no one else unvoted.

Drk your recent unvote bothers me. Why not push for the person who you think is the most scummiest, if there is a chance that they might lynch? If others follow you wouldn’t it be better for you because you got your number one suspect of being lynched. Instead you seem to be voting and unvoting and not making any real votes. The town shifts this way and you vote. The town shifts the other way and you unvote. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Follow your own advice and push for the person who is on the top of your list that has a good chance to be lynched. You decide who is most scummy based on your decision not what the town in leaning toward.

[hiphop]

I believed [DRK] would of cast the hammer vote eventually if my vote remained. I don’t think you would be lynched without my vote.

You're kidding, right? I had the opportunity to hammer and I specifically said that no one should hammer until we were closer to the deadline. I seem to recall even suggesting that someone unvote. If we got close to the deadline (probably several hours) and IK was still alive, I would have hammered him, but no sooner. Read the thread before you make comments like this.

Apparently you didn't see the word

eventually

. Why don't you follow your own advice and read the thread?

Toro and dj are now safe from lynch due to claims, leaving IK and jason, my two top suspects. Having extra votes out just gives scum something to latch onto and a way to blend in with a wagon near a deadline.

So you are saying that being that you are not lynching scum, the scum will help get the lynch. Smooth?!

I've voiced my opinions throughout the thread.

They're there for you to read.

It's time for players who have been less vocal to commit to a lynch.

The part that I bolded tells me that you want people to follow your logic to vote for Jason. Either way people will vote for Jason. You still could of put your vote on him and it wouldn't have mattered. No doubt if Toro or Idk, instead of Jason, ended up getting a push for them you would of put your vote with the rest of the Bw. That was probably your real reason why you unvoted.

[hiphop]

I think it would be best if you claimed Jason.

[hiphop]

I never said that you were going to hammer out of the blue, but I knew you would of not hesitated to cast the hammer vote eventually.

Seeing where your vote eventually falls and where it has been can be very revealing.

What about Jason? He claimed a town PR. Do you still support the lynch or will you change your vote again?

[hiphop]

i am town aligned.

Don this is stupid. How could everybody fall for this? If Jason is scum each day all he has to say is yes this person is town-aligned. Mix a couple of scum in there and nobody knows which way is up and which way is down. No, I will not say what I am aligned to. I prefer Jason find some other information to ask about me if he is town-aligned. Something that I might just say he is lying to. What an easy scum claim. And you guys fell for it? ha. You guys made it easy on him.

The worst part is that no scum( even an Sk) will come out and say Jason is lying that he really isn't town aligned, because otherwise they would be lynching themselves.

Yes I believed we should of lynched Jason.

This deserves a

FOS Don

for starting this nonsense and for threatening everybody if they didn't follow you.

[hiphop]

I find two things plausible from the discussion of what actually happened.
Mafia got RB and SK/vig killed, or Mafia Traitor. I like the first best.

I don't find bus drivers or redirectors believable for the mafia kill, because the odds would have been greater for them. They would have to of chosen a mafia member twice in order for a mafia member to die.

Toro- Why DRK? Don't say it was coincidence, because I don't believe that. You had 28 pages to have based an opinion, if you were town (or even scum) there had to of been a reason. What is it?

[hiphop]

I read this as you believe Toro is telling the truth. What's your take on the night actions, hiphop?

I don’t believe anyone at the moment, especially not Toro. Who says DRK tried to make the kill? His scum buddies could have tried to make the kill and someone RB him or someone saved the person they were targeting. I am also willing to believe that the SK made that kill. A RB is also something easy for a scum to claim as, if they are the mafia RB.

I don't believe the no NK. There would be no reason why Toro, if he were scum, would RB his buddy. If this happened and Toro came out and said he RB someone and there was no NK, what do you think everybody would believe? They would probably believed that the person who he RB was scum, or they wouldn't believe Toro. I do believe that his scum buddies could of told Toro to give the name of somebody who had died night 1.
This way the action can't be checked.

i have to disagree here. i also asked for a claim as i think a vig claim would be helpful. the problem with vig is that it is easy cover for sk. without a claim we run the risk of carrying a nightkiller into lylo type situations. this is not a good idea. i believe vigilantes should shoot early and claim early. taking a nightkill is better than scum targeting someone else who may have a more important role like cop or doc.

I will have to disagree with you. If there is a vig, and I am saying if, than the vig is our only shot of killing mafia at night, otherwise we will always need to rely on the lynch for the mafia to die. If the vig dies than is means once it hits night the only person killed will be town. Besides the vig hitting scum, should be more likely than the mafia hitting our doctor or Cop. Scum always has the chance of targeting a less important role like a vanilla.

Also the day has just begun, referring to 725. Let us see what it brings us, before we decide on who to lynch, though I too would be willing to lynch Toro right now. I would rather have a full day activity before lynching anyone.

Protection will come.

I want this explained as well.

@Toro you still have not explained my question. Please do.
As for the above post, I think we all will have that idea until Paradoxombie explains. I saw it and had an idea of what it meant before Zach called it out. If I saw it, I am sure the more experienced players, scum included, would of seen it too.

[hiphop]

Toro how come you are not answering questions? If you do not want to play, than why are you still posting?

[hiphop]

Do you guys think that night is more important than day? If you don't, why such a quick lynch?

[hiphop]

@Ryan How? Two scum in a row, yet we (as in the town) can't get a scum lynched.

[hiphop]

The how did not mean how did you do it. I believed you did the NK. My question is how did you manage to pick two scum out of all the players here, especially in the first two nights? And you answered that in your above post.

Interesting how if Toro was scum, the town would of attacked me, but because Toro is not scum, Ryan attacks me.

@Ryan-What about Don, do you believe he is a PR?

[hiphop]

Thanks to Ryan we are not in lylo. I am convinced and have been for a long time that Ryan is town, but Don I wasn't sure until Zach posted his post of Don targeting Ryan. Now I believe that IcemanE is our missing scum. If someone does an iso read of Shrine they will understand. He never mentions Jason, and he only writes Drk’s name twice. He agrees with him once, and asks idk why he suspects drk. This is his one accusation of DRK.

@IK
Explain how stupid you think I am that I would buddy so obviously. Be as detailed as you can.

Keyword: "would". Isn't going into conditional like this [i.e. would a given player

would

do if he were x alignment] what falls under WIFOM?

Is this the only defense you have for his buddying accusation?

Wait, is this the same accusation that you used "I'm inexperienced, therefore obviously I'd [Shrine aside: there's that "would" again...] be stupid enough to buddy to this extent." to defend yourself with?!

which he doesn’t follow up. It is almost a hint rather than an accusation. For that I

vote: IcemanE

as one of the last scum.

[hiphop]

What is it with people wanting to be lynched? One after the other. We have Idk, than Toro and now icemanE. Who's next? Though icemanE could be saying he would self-vote to lead people astray that he is town. Actually if icemanE is the last scum, it makes sense that he would target RC, being it might of taken time for him to read through the thread and he wasn't sure of what was happening.

We have Para wanting Ryan to hold his kill, because this would show that he could be a vig, while don encourages him to use it. I think it would be better if Ryan did not make a kill. An Sk would always want to make a kill being that is one less person that he must deal with, while a vig always wants to help the town.

By the way, I am vanilla.

[hiphop]

I guess I am lynched. Go town.