Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[hiphop]

To me it was random. To me, the vote had a reason, without having a reason. If that makes sense to you.

[Toro]

Mmkay.

[dank]

The majority of RC's posts were not about me, so I didn't really notice the case he made, which I don't think is really all that strong. The case centers around the post I made, which both goes after hiphop's odd certainty by using "scum number 1", but more importantly, the fact that he was afraid to vote someone who was afraid to bandwagon, because then he'd be bandwagoning. That's all it was.

Toro's continuing his more or less useless play; i'm not sure if a noob factor is also present or not (even if it is, he should be at least trying to make some sort of case for someone, even if its noob-bad). He's already made excuses that he's not good at scumhunting, but that doesnt mean he should forego it completely, like he seems to be doing.

[Shrinehme]

@shrine The inexperience part was not the unvoting, I unvoted because, as I explained before, it was just a random vote. The inexperience part was not revoting.

I think you added an extra "not" somewhere in here... can you reword this? P:

[hiphop]

I meant what I said. I didn't revote did I? I believe I should of revoted then, or not unvoted until I was ready to revote.

[jasonT1981]

To me it was random. To me, the vote had a reason, without having a reason. If that makes sense to you.

I am not surer if it makes sense or not... let me think about this.

It was random

It had a reason without having a reason....

please explain as it does not make any sense to me.. are you saying the fact that it was random is the reason without having any actual meaning behind the vote? that is the only reason I can think off for what you said.

[hiphop]

Think of it this way. Your first vote

vote:Idiotking

I laughed so much at the name I am voting him

It had a reason, but technically that doesn't mean that idiotking was scum. So really your post had no reason for a vote of idiotking. Mine was the same way.

[DeathRowKitty]

Toro's continuing his more or less useless play; i'm not sure if a noob factor is also present or not (even if it is, he should be at least trying to make some sort of case for someone, even if its noob-bad). He's already made excuses that he's not good at scumhunting, but that doesnt mean he should forego it completely, like he seems to be doing.

I disagree. Based on what I've seen of Toro's play so far, I currently believe that was an earnest attempt at scumhunting. He pointed out something he thought was contradictory and hiphop explained it to him. He then let it die. What I'm more concerned about right now is two groups of people:
1) people who are trying to force the hiphop issue.
2) people who are trying to not to appear to be hiphop-hunting.

Hiphop is an easy target right now. Scum would want to force the hiphop issue to get an easy lynch (assuming of course hiphop is town). At the same time, they wouldn't want to look like they were pushing the wagon or they could come under suspicion Day 2. This points me to Jason. Originally, he made a few posts against hiphop without ever giving an FoS, voting, or even saying whether or not he found hiphop scummy. This is even more suspicious since most of his posts have been about hiphop. Now, looking at a couple of selected lines from his posts:

Point 2 - So if he is your No1 choice of scum... you basically are saying he is scum right? why say he is your no1 suspect if you dont think him of scum.. that point you made makes no sense to me really.

To me it was random. To me, the vote had a reason, without having a reason. If that makes sense to you.

I am not surer if it makes sense or not... let me think about this.

In the first quote, Jason brought up a point that I personally think hiphop had just settled (and that hiphop had already explained). Arguably, hiphop's statement from the second quote seemed a bit contradictory, but it's pretty clear to me what hiphop meant. He practically gave the definition of a random vote (just worded oddly). It looks to me like Jason could very easily be trying to fan the flames without committing himself to either side.

Right now, I find Jason more suspicious than hiphop and more suspicious than dank (who I'm more suspicious of than hiphop).

Vote: Jason

.

[Paradoxombie]

I'm really not liking the way toro unvoted after getting a couple of votes. Toro, I didn't vote you for voting, I voted you for having suspicions that did not strike me as genuine. You were wishywashy when you got on the wagon, but after you'd actually voted it seemed nothing could change your mind. When hiphop tries to reason with you, you essentially shrug him off, like you're not even interested in the possibility that he's town. It's quite different from a few posts before, when you weren't even sure whether to vote him. Then when a couple of people vote you, you hastily unvote. You're all over the place.

[hiphop]

What I'm more concerned about right now is two groups of people:
1) people who are trying to force the hiphop issue.
2) people who are trying to not to appear to be hiphop-hunting.

I believe you just hit the nail on the head.

[Paradoxombie]

What I'm more concerned about right now is two groups of people:
1) people who are trying to force the hiphop issue.
2) people who are trying to not to appear to be hiphop-hunting.

That seems like a very wide net to cast. Who would you put in each group? Jason seems to fit in both I'd say, so I can see why you'd vote him.

[hiphop]

Edit: Death RowKitty wrote that quote not Dank.

[DeathRowKitty]

What I'm more concerned about right now is two groups of people:
1) people who are trying to force the hiphop issue.
2) people who are trying to not to appear to be hiphop-hunting.

That seems like a very wide net to cast. Who would you put in each group? Jason seems to fit in both I'd say, so I can see why you'd vote him.

The second group is pretty clear-cut. Most people thus far have given a decent amount of opinion on hiphop. Jason clearly stood out in this group as our biggest fencesitter.

The first group is trickier. Up until recently, hiphop's been giving scum more than enough to use against him. The fact that at times he did look so suspicious makes it very plausible that townies would be picking on the little things he did and not just scum. When I re-read, Jason stood out in this group too as trying to fan the flames and not just trying to scumhunt.

@Jason
Explain to me why I'm wrong and give your opinions on hiphop.

[Paradoxombie]

The second group is pretty clear-cut. Most people thus far have given a decent amount of opinion on hiphop. Jason clearly stood out in this group as our biggest fencesitter.

The first group is trickier. Up until recently, hiphop's been giving scum more than enough to use against him. The fact that at times he did look so suspicious makes it very plausible that townies would be picking on the little things he did and not just scum. When I re-read, Jason stood out in this group too as trying to fan the flames and not just trying to scumhunt.

If the second group is so clear cut, can you give more specific names in your opinion?

[jasonT1981]

OK

The reason I didn't vote earlier is because I was pointing out what was wrong with Hiphops postings... I was not building a case.

after that however the misrep on me was bad yes when he stated I was anxious for his lynch and started me thinking more, and one of the reasons I did not vote then was because it would have put him at L-1 I believe at the time.

As well as that I was not fully convinced he was scum... so non comittal yea, I guess that is in a way.. But when I place a vote (aside from RVS) I am 100% sure I feel that person is scum.

@DeathRowKitty the reason I asked him to clarify was because I was unsure of what he was saying... I posted what I thought he maybe saying and asked him to clarify if I was right or not. And he has.

Honestly, I believe there could be 1... if not 2 opertunistic scum who got onto that wagon off hiphops.

Anyway, it is now nearly 4am as I post this (3.50am) Yikes... far tooo many energy drinks lol.

[hiphop]

Honestly, I believe there could be 1... if not 2 opertunistic scum who got onto that wagon off hiphops.

Can you speculate who of that group sticks out to you?

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #5:

dank (1)

-

RedCoyote

hiphop (1)

-

Zachrulez

Idiotking (1)

-

jasonT1981

jasonT1981 (1)

-

DeathRowKitty

RedCoyote (1)

-

DTMaster

toro (3)

-

hihop, Paradoxombie, dank

Not Voting (4)

-

Idiotking, ryan2754, Shrinehme, Toro

Happiness with Posting Level:

HAPPY!

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

If the second group is so clear cut, can you give more specific names in your opinion?

A (very) brief run-down on activity in the hiphop situation

dank-voted hiphop
DRK-voted hiphop
DTM-voted hiphop (random vote, but he kept it on after the RVS)
hiphop-got wagoned
IK-says hiphop's "exploded in scumminess" but never votes for him
Jason-already explained
Paradoxombie (Can I call you Paradox or something similar?)-gone for the two days containing the bulk of the hiphop wagon; thought the case on hiphop was "a bit overblown"
RC-more concerned with dank and with defending himself from DTM; his clearest thought on the matter="I think there was/is scum riding his bandwagon earlier in hopes that they would be able to take advantage of hiphop's emotion."
ryan-didn't vote but specifically said, "Seems I find hiphop and IK fairly strong lynches at this point" (also said he's careful with his vote)
Shrine-gave a "Major FOS" to hiphop but never voted
Toro-voted hiphop
Zach-voted hiphop

In order of suspicion stemming from this analysis:
Jason
IK
Paradoxombie
RC

Jason was the one I was most concerned with because he seemed considerably more dedicated to the hiphop wagon than the other possible fencesitters and was also in the other group. Make of this what you want.

[hiphop]

Hey mod unless I missed something, Toro did not vote for himself. You posted this on the last two vote counts. By the way mod I am loving this game. It kind of fits the title.

[dank]

Mod: Where did toro vote himeslf? I don't remember him doing that.

*Ohh... Check again... Mind tricks... Mind tricks...

[dank]

erm, yes. What he said.

[DeathRowKitty]

But when I place a vote (aside from RVS) I am 100% sure I feel that person is scum.

Seems like a strategy sure to get you accused of fencesitting. Besides, the only way to be 100% sure is to either be a cop assured of your sanity or scum (If you're scum, it would be helpful if you claimed right now )

You also didn't explain your opinions on hiphop (at least not very clearly). Please explain them more clearly.

[jasonT1981]

Honestly, I believe there could be 1... if not 2 opertunistic scum who got onto that wagon off hiphops.

Can you speculate who of that group sticks out to you?

Give me until tomorrow afternoon to go over things again... I am not saying that anyones vote in itself is suspicious but just saying it would not surprise me to see at least one, if not 2 scum..I will look back over the wagon when I get up.. its now 4.35am here in Northern Ireland. And I am going to bed

In my experience in games elsewhere and not on MS scum usually hit the bandwagon early or middle.. maybe votes 3 and 4.

But when I place a vote (aside from RVS) I am 100% sure I feel that person is scum.

Seems like a strategy sure to get you accused of fencesitting. Besides, the only way to be 100% sure is to either be a cop assured of your sanity or scum (If you're scum, it would be helpful if you claimed right now )

You also didn't explain your opinions on hiphop (at least not very clearly). Please explain them more clearly.

I thought I did express my opinions on Hiphop and those opinions where how he was wrong in what he said.... i made a post replying to his numbered points and also replied to his saying wrongly i was anxious for his lynch.

If you want to call it fence sitting, so be it... when there are others who have not even voted though i find it a weird comment especially since I never have fully suspected him of being scum, I just think he has had bad logic and misrepped me (I do think this was a tad scummy yes, but I believe he acknowledged he was wrong on)

... infact my vote is still actually on Idiotking lol.

unvote

it was my RVS Vote

Will do a proper read over when I get out of bed, which now seems more and more likely will be the afternoon.

[jasonT1981]

Oh and no, I wont be claiming anything... nice role fishing i must point out though

[ryan2754]

Unfortunately, at this point there's so little actual logic and almost no fact, and as such, it's hard for me to do my job correctly...

@ryan Everything you said on me is the truth how can I defend against it.

Hiphop, yes they are facts, but they are facts that make you scummy, and thus, a good thing to build a case around.

Look at the above two quotes. One person says there is no actual logic, thus no fact. The other says everything is fact.

Interesting dilemma here.

What does everyone else think about the cases so far this game? Actual logic/fact or not?

In my opinion, I think we have a fairly large portion of good logic, contrary to what IK thinks.

Toro is currently self-voting?

Post 116 looks like an AtE about his scumhunting abilities. Not to mention a softclaim as town when it is completely unnecessary.

IK and Hiphop have both responded to the arguments against them. It was obvious who had a legitimate response.

Vote:hiphop