DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Ojanen]

I haven't really talked to my other head (coordinating dialogue in opposite timezones is slow) but I'll go ahead and post a few of my thoughts.

I’m not very gung-ho about a ZMD lynch. He brought up a valid point against RW when it already looked like RW was going to be lynched, which tells me ZMD was trying to make the best choice and not just save his skin in that instance.

I'm not so sure I agree with that conclusion.
Zmd had voted RW already earlier, because

Vote Raging Wishbone. It's me or them. That suits me fine because they are my top suspect anyway.

And they hadn't really voiced arguments against RW except that voting analysis where everyone in a lynching wagon except 2 first and hammer get scumpoints.
The point they brought up was very valid imo. But I would expect them to remember RW's invalid Frog attack quite vividly since they got a decent amount of flak for mirroring it without checking the context, and I don't see how using that as further justification for their vote would make them seem less self-preserving.
Kmd, when did Zazie get in the game? I had thought it was only you because of the meta defence and perspective of the posts.

We originally found the interaction between Zaphod and Trotsky extremely strange, scummy and didn't consider Zaphod's fuming extended meta argument as valid for hydras. Thing is, Trotsky flipping SK and Zaphod being right kind of forced us to acknowledge there might have been a clearer bigger picture than we thought/knew of. At the very least the argument was bloody eccentric.

After just rereading nyballs in iso, I'd like to see some arguments why they are being deemed a top suspect.
The posting has been sparse even in the standards of this game and there was a strange FoS on Yosariwen because of walls of text. But other than that I didn't really see fishy content and the thought processes seemed plausible.

J-scope and ortohoops are rereads to finish for tomorrow, getting too sleepy and slow.

[Ojanen]

We actually haven't talked much about the game. She is way too far behind to know what is going on. V__V

Then she catches up at some point? But doesn't share her views or stance on the game/agrees with you on everything? All your posts between the RW contradictory attack question from ZazieR and the previous statement are explanations of what you meant before or meta defence of Kmd or similar material seemingly derived from Kmd's earlier thoughts in thread.

It took forever for the scum kill to go through.

Zaphod, your wording and lurking theory implies you would expect the scum to kill earlier rather than later in the day. Can you explain why? Considering that the rules say pending kills resolve after a lynch anyway, I don't really see the incentive.

[Ojanen]

Yay!
Sure, no objections to posting our quicktopic.
I echo the sentiment of being interested in the Latvian one too.

Good game everyone. I had fun, and this game had a lot of strong players. Especially memorable general holy shit moments were half the game claiming doc after me and SWSWC flip revealing another faction. Both moments ended up also being lucky for us Bulgarians.
We started out the game by bussing because I assumed not being able to kill means it would be very hard to reliably get rid of strong PtA wagoners by any other means than being more townish ourselves. But it was great that it ended up being such a team effort on the Bulgarians' part.

I also got some elementary practice in using Photoshop for the doc screenshots (Jahudo helped me with four of the six needed modifications though). I've got to say, it was fun faking them once but I wouldn't have patience or time to regularly play in games with such liberal quoting rules. Was there some general game philosophical backround thought that led you to write that free speech rule, Adel? It does make a fake-claimer's life rather hard.

Jdodge, thank you for the compliment. I was actually pretty baffled during the game regards to why you found us townish. I'd be intensely curious still to hear if there was some specific reason to that or if it was just a vibe.

[Ojanen]

Oh and thanks a million for modding to Adel and Claus.

[Ojanen]

arguments in MD about two years ago where the consensus was that letting players quote the mod breaks games. I disagreed with that consensus, and started I using the free speech clause for my games. Now it is a design feature. In Beta is was expected to make the mafia Doc's life more difficult. and fakeclaiming difficult in general, however if a person really put time and effort into preparing a fake claim, the screenshots and time/date stamps would help convince.
The philosophy that all of this reflects is that "the last resort to fixing a problem should be a new law or rule" -- the "problem" in this case being players quoting mod communication or role PMs, and the slippery slope of

almost

quoting mod communication or role PMs, like grammar lynchings and such. I think the more elegant solution is to just allow everything, and try to compensate for the likely consequences in the game design.

The thing is, free screenshoting puts weight to an irrelevant factor to the actual game, access to Photoshop or something similar (faking skills also, I guess, although it seemed to me those were relatively quickly learnable - I had never opened Photoshop in my life before nyball's request but managed to do the role pm). It also punishes a playerslot for acting as a hydra. Quick requests for intra-hydra communication proof would have been uncomfortable to live with. We actually had a fake townie quicktopic going on for quite a while with Sando. But it was a little tedious, and we gradually fell out of updating it at all. Had we wanted to be really foolproof and go through minimal effort of image forgery, there would have had to be several for different fakeclaims.
I guess I see, based on this game, the screenshot rule as giving potentially a lot of non-skill-related busywork to mafia. I understand the "elegant solution" point when it comes to direct quoting, but including screenshoting to this seems more a philosophical tangent.
I found it pretty funny though that consistence within the claim (dates, targets etc.) was a scumtell among the four doc claimers.
Also, contrasting with what I just wrote, faking the screenshots and getting help from our buddies in the Bulgarian topic was actually one of the funnest times in the game for me, because it was intense, time-pressured and new for me, plus the situation with the claims was so interesting. I think we collectively made almost a third of our posts in the quicktopic during those late-game hectic times.
I just know I wouldn't normally have the time to do the same thing, or access to Photoshop, and it would get tedious after a while.

Playing as a hydra was a cool experience. I liked the anonymity of merging to be one of the heads, I liked the almost-metaless space it secured us in. Sando has a much better ability to act/scumhunt aggressively than I do. It was cool to have that side in us. I got the feeling that playing as a hydra would be easier as town than as scum - as scum you need to arrange more things together, town can just double-scumhunt pretty freely.