Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[Zachrulez]

How far away is the deadline? I just looked at the time of the deadline, and am translating it to 8am. If that is the case, I might actually have to change my vote, because I'm not sure if I will have the chance tomorrow morning.

I had the impression that it was tomorrow evening...

[Paradoxombie]

Don you don't know the whole game, therefore I say the town should not be taking your advice.

[don_johnson]

its not about this particular game. its about intelligent strategy. stop being so egotistical that you think someone else isn't smart enough to make good decisions on limited information.

in the rules post it says deadline is 8/24 which is today.

[Zachrulez]

Paradox, please respond to 573.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Zach
I can see why you would find vote-hopping suspicious, but is it really unwarranted here, given what I've said?

Also, I think gut feelings can be very useful, even if you don't know where they come from. For example, let's say for example you feel like proving Fermat's Little Theorem (the following is actually something that happened to me) and you need somewhere to start and the following theorem you happen to remember comes to mind: pCk is divisible by p for k=0, 1, ..., p-1. Why? I don't know, but it has to do with prime numbers. Gut feeling number 1. Next, induction pops into mind. Why? Why not. Gut feeling number two. Presumably, you're going to induct on a, since inducting over the primes isn't particularly feasible. At this point, the proof is very straightforward. Induction using the binomial theorem. QED. Going on gut feelings, the proof took about a minute to find.

Of course, that situation isn't an exact analogue to the current one, but hopefully it had some relevance. I don't know what exactly makes my gut tell me Jason's scum, but something about his posts does. Even if I can't see a clear path through his posts that say he's scum (though his posts do look scummy), like I couldn't see a clear route through the proof (though I could see the outlines of it), my gut (hopefully) shows me more clearly that he is scum.

Sorry for the math examples, but for some reason they're the first things that come to mind >.<

[Zachrulez]

@Zach
I can see why you would find vote-hopping suspicious, but is it really unwarranted here, given what I've said?

Also, I think gut feelings can be very useful, even if you don't know where they come from. For example, let's say for example you feel like proving Fermat's Little Theorem (the following is actually something that happened to me) and you need somewhere to start and the following theorem you happen to remember comes to mind: pCk is divisible by p for k=0, 1, ..., p-1. Why? I don't know, but it has to do with prime numbers. Gut feeling number 1. Next, induction pops into mind. Why? Why not. Gut feeling number two. Presumably, you're going to induct on a, since inducting over the primes isn't particularly feasible. At this point, the proof is very straightforward. Induction using the binomial theorem. QED. Going on gut feelings, the proof took about a minute to find.

Of course, that situation isn't an exact analogue to the current one, but hopefully it had some relevance. I don't know what exactly makes my gut tell me Jason's scum, but something about his posts does. Even if I can't see a clear path through his posts that say he's scum (though his posts do look scummy), like I couldn't see a clear route through the proof (though I could see the outlines of it), my gut (hopefully) shows me more clearly that he is scum.

Sorry for the math examples, but for some reason they're the first things that come to mind >.<

A gut feeling in this situation isn't going to help the town very much given the fact that you've chosen to put pressure on Jason in a deadline situation without much of a substantial case beyond your gut feeling, in a situation where he will not have the chance to claim before being lynched.

In fact that whole not have a chance to claim thing really makes me weary about lynching anyone but IK at this point. Deadlines suck.

Unvote Vote: IK

[Paradoxombie]

Deadline is 9:00 am Eastern Time tomorrow if I'm not mistaken.

MOD

Could you clarify how many hours to deadline? And is there any chance we could get a deadline extension because of all this activity?

unvote, vote:Toro

in case there will be no extension.

[alexhans]

I may grant you a 48 hs extension if at least half the players in the game require it.

it's 17:27 here so the deadline would be in 16º33' hours from now.

[don_johnson]

mod: i approve a deadline extension.

^^ this does not change the fact that i think it is poor form to run someone else to a claim. discuss away, but ik should be our lynch barring unforeseen obvscum behavior. my sceond choice, if i have to see another player run up would be jason. i don't see the case on toro. if someone would care to paraphrase it that would be great.

[ryan2754]

48 hours would be fantastic.

A vote count would be nice, Alex.

* I'm on it... Got distracted by the phone.

Currently have my vote on Toro, but depending on if we get an extension or not, I would be willing to put my vote back on IK, because I do understand the concept of someone not getting to claim at this point before deadline.

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #21:

Idiotking (4)

-

don_johnson, Toro, jasonT1981, Zachrulez

toro (4)

-

Shrinehme, ryan2754, Idiotking, Paradoxombie

jasonT1981 (3)

-

hiphop, DeathRowKitty, RedCoyote

Not Voting (1)

-

DTMaster

Happiness with Posting Level:

HAPPY

Deadline:

Tuesday 25th - 1000 hs (GMT - 3)

Votes for a 48 hs Day extension (6 needed):

Yes (3)

: Paradoxombie, don_johnson, ryan2754

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[Idiotking]

ik: if you are town you definitely need to consider the possibility of the self hammer.

Unless it's 5 minutes till the deadline and I'm at L-1, I'm not self-hammering. That's just ridiculous. You're actually advocating for me to self-hammer?

[DeathRowKitty]

]Vote: Deadline Extension

@Zach
I gave the case for Jason earlier when ryan asked for it.

[Zachrulez]

I would like to see a deadline extension. I'd also like to see everyone actually take advantage of the extension to get as much as we can in the way of reactions as possible.

[alexhans]

Votes for a 48 hs Day extension (6 needed):

Yes (5)

: Paradoxombie, don_johnson, ryan2754, DeathRowKitty, Zachrulez

[DTMaster]

I'm at work so I'll just say

MOD: EXTENSTION PLEASE

I'll catch up later since its a 15 minute break. :3

[DTMaster]

Also question

@MOD

Are you using the new vote mechanic where you need half the required numbers to lynch on deadline day if the day runs out? I think that is the new vote mechanic...

[DeathRowKitty]

Now that we have enough players voting for an extension,

unvote: jason

. We have 48 extra hours and there's no use letting them go to waste

[Paradoxombie]

I agree with you that we should look for people with BS reasons to drop IK and I think you have the worst. ]Your case on DRK is seems weak when he openly admits that he is hopping to the more popular wagon and considering that they are both ones he already preferred. Your sudden interest in toro and disinterest in IK is just as opportunistic as your original vote on IK. Overall I think you look worst from IK Wagon II.

unvote, vote:ZachRulez

DRK openly admitting to hopping to the more popular wagon doesn't make it any less scummy in my eyes.

Think what you want about my sudden interest in Toro. The way he followed me onto that wagon was just horrible.

You saying I look the worst on the IK wagon while previously scrutinizing Don with a major FOS is hilarious though. Even more interesting than that is that you hadn't really mentioned me as a suspect prior to the above post. (At least not since your previous vote of me which you cast while I was V/LA.)

We just had a new bandwagon collapse and you admit we should be scrutinizing those who dropped. Don't pretend you're exempt. You admit I did vote you and I think your recent series of opportunistic moves looks like scum trying to dance through a chaotic deadline.

Plus, it would be stupid to vote a claimed power role at this point.

Who said I'm exempt?

And who dropped from that bandwagon? How likely is DRK to actually be lynched? What about Red Coyote? Toro?, HipHop?

You criticized the fact that I haven't mentioned you as a previous suspect when you just said you were looking at people coming off the wagon. But you are one of those people jumping off the wagon so I think it makes sense I'd be starting to look at you. You jumped to a case on DRK while leaving yourself open to all the popular wagons including jason, ik and toro.

[Paradoxombie]

unvote, vote:Zachrulez

[don_johnson]

ik: if you are town you definitely need to consider the possibility of the self hammer.

Unless it's 5 minutes till the deadline and I'm at L-1, I'm not self-hammering. That's just ridiculous. You're actually advocating for me to self-hammer?

yes, but only in the situation you are describing. a no lynch would be bad, and lynching someone without a claim, for instance, could be equally as damaging. no offense, but you have claimed vanilla, your actions have been questionable as well as those around you. i find you to be a perfectly acceptable day 1 lynch. if you flip town then i think you will have helped town tremendously as it would confirm many of the suspicions currently being discussed.

[Toro]

I'll approve of a deadline extension, as long as I'm not being offed.

[alexhans]

@MOD

Are you using the new vote mechanic where you need half the required numbers to lynch on deadline day if the day runs out? I think that is the new vote mechanic...

I think that if at least half the players in the game want an extension then it is fair to give them one, provided that their activity levels are good.

Anyway, it's a ONE time extension. I won't be giving more extensions to the current day.

[Zachrulez]

I agree with you that we should look for people with BS reasons to drop IK and I think you have the worst. ]Your case on DRK is seems weak when he openly admits that he is hopping to the more popular wagon and considering that they are both ones he already preferred. Your sudden interest in toro and disinterest in IK is just as opportunistic as your original vote on IK. Overall I think you look worst from IK Wagon II.

unvote, vote:ZachRulez

DRK openly admitting to hopping to the more popular wagon doesn't make it any less scummy in my eyes.

Think what you want about my sudden interest in Toro. The way he followed me onto that wagon was just horrible.

You saying I look the worst on the IK wagon while previously scrutinizing Don with a major FOS is hilarious though. Even more interesting than that is that you hadn't really mentioned me as a suspect prior to the above post. (At least not since your previous vote of me which you cast while I was V/LA.)

We just had a new bandwagon collapse and you admit we should be scrutinizing those who dropped. Don't pretend you're exempt. You admit I did vote you and I think your recent series of opportunistic moves looks like scum trying to dance through a chaotic deadline.

Plus, it would be stupid to vote a claimed power role at this point.

Who said I'm exempt?

And who dropped from that bandwagon? How likely is DRK to actually be lynched? What about Red Coyote? Toro?, HipHop?

You criticized the fact that I haven't mentioned you as a previous suspect when you just said you were looking at people coming off the wagon. But you are one of those people jumping off the wagon so I think it makes sense I'd be starting to look at you. You jumped to a case on DRK while leaving yourself open to all the popular wagons including jason, ik and toro.

Well we are/were in a deadline situation. Any lynch is better than none is it not?

[DTMaster]

@RC

I was just questioning the modkill mechanic which Alex responded in 560 to confirm it. I don't see anything scummy or not to evaluate what would have happened in both scum-DTM and town-DTM scenarios. Don stated it would have worked as a day-vig scenario, I saw differently.

There is nothing up my sleeve other then I was very objective about the situation. You can interpret my statement as me trying to look town rather then knowing that I am town, I can see your POV, but you might be looking too hard into it.

Also can you outline the connections that you see right now, this could be important for the coming days.