Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[DeathRowKitty]

There was only one player looking to lynch you. Any reason you couldn't have waited until Day 2 to claim?

[Toro]

I don't see the difference why it would matter.

[DeathRowKitty]

It doesn't help the town to know you're a roleblocker (or only to a small extent). It does help the scum. For example, scum often have to choose who performs a kill. Knowing that you're a roleblocker, the scum know who you suspect and they can avoid having that person perform the kill.

[ryan2754]

[RedCoyote]

It's better to have people decide who's scummy based on their own feelings, not how many votes people have. By taking votes off, it would force others to make their own opinions. Of course, my unvote probably didn't help this much since no one else unvoted.

I understand this, but have your "feelings" on jason changed any at all?

---

i'll lynch jason to avoid a no-lynch. but if he's scum he'll be here tomorrow. if we have a vig they might take him out tonight. we need information to have a productive day 2 and pushing someone else closer to lynch this close to deadline can be extremely detrimental to town.

This is more than a little pessimistic. Additionally, it seems a little silly to me that you would advocate lynching Ik and shooting jason. I mean, if jason dies 2 days earlier, what's the difference? None that I can tell, except jason has a chance to claim and the vig still has a shot.

Believe me, I understand discretion. I definitely don't want the whole town to start claiming.

---

It seems more like a neutral tell to me since a player(me) had already asked about a deadline extension and the mod just explained how we could have one with a majority vote.

You're right. I missed this, but Paradox was the one who asked for the extension first and should, therefore, necessarily be given some townie credit for it. The reasoning behind that is obviously because the scum was likely trying to get the day overwith (assuming Ik is town, if he's scum it may actually be reversed).


---

I am actually intrigued as to why I am third on your scumlist. I feel you haven't really addressed me that much, but that's just me. Why is it that you waited until deadline to provide a case against me?

I'm not really "providing" a case against you per se. Paradox asked what my pulse on the game was, and I consented. Incidentally, I have no qualms with ever explaining what I thinkt he makeup of the town is and think it can always be a spark to conversations to get people to give concrete town/scum predictions.

I've addressed you enough to know I am not a fan of your play thus far.

May I ask why you consider it nonsense?

Because it didn't make logical sense. You said you were locked on hiphop, and a few days later you took your vote off. I don't blame you for unvoting hiphop of course, I blame you for erroneously "confiming" your vote before a claim and, if I recall correctly, before a deadline had even been set. There were only two votes, including your own, at that time on hiphop. I know I had expressed much disinterest in lynching him, I think DRK and DTM both felt the same way, but I don't want to put words in their mouths.

The point is, it was a showy tactic to try and win support. Your "confirm votes" will forever be slightly tainted because, well, they're not really confirmed at all.

You think I am being a non-factor? I condier Toro a non-factor, not myself.
What do you mean by not-seeing-the-forest-for-the-trees?

Even Toro has, for better or worse, fended off pressure and showed us some defense and offense. I don't know, you and Shrine almost seem completely in the background of this game. Zach was guilty of this for a time, but I think he's brought himself out.

Not seeing the forest for the trees is an idiom. I mean like you are not seeing the bigger picture because you are stuck on relatively minor details. Your confirm vote is a perfect example of this. You've got this strong intent to lynch hiphop, and that's fine, but you're only looking at one dimension of the game. When you "confirm" your vote especially, that's like saying you are done listening to anything else and you are ready for the day to end. That's just not the message I think a town player would want to convey at that time.

So, having 3 suspects (toro, Jason, hiphop) is considered scummy/fencesitting if I do it, yet you have your scum list above which pretty much equates to three people? I mean, in 611, Zach calls 4 people suspicious. Is he fencesitting?

Apples to oranges. I'm providing more context than just, you know, "Zach's post seems a little sketchy. I'm suspicious". Additionally I am giving my players who I think sound good; I am showing my evolution throughout the game. Some of your earlier posts were more complete in this sense, but this post (550) is basically following the crowd. I appreciate you telling us that you agree with the greater town sentiment that Toro/jason should probably be given more scrutiny, but you can't lynch two people. What about Toro's breadcrumb? Does jason seem connected to anything? Expand, explain, and get deeper.

And yes, Zach's surely even more guilty of this than you are (and he's also further down my scale than you are).

What the hell is this supposed to mean?

That I'm missing your unique interpretation of the game.

---

I don't understand why my partial pushing of Jason makes me somewhat suspicious. If you read my posts I focused more on a Toro case until the soft claim, where I dropped it like with my thoughts on don.

You misunderstand. Your (earlier) pushing of jason means nothing at the immediate moment (it may or may not mean something after we see a flip). My perception of you outside of your votes is what I am talking about. I am not as comfortable with you as I am with, say, don. So if don voted A and you voted B, leaving everything else out of the equation, I'd be more inclined to think A is scum simply because I am more comfortable with don as a town-sided player than I am that you are.

I don't know how I was secretive about my dislike about Jason's posts but at least I made an effort to scum hunt him. You can also tack on the current town arguments against him but I'd prefer to not repeat and rehash the same things over and over when I post something.

Right. Again, it's not that you are scummy for going after jason, I don't mean to imply that at all. I just mean that the wagon against jason gets more creditability with DRK + don + DTM than with just DTM. This could come into play later, this could mean nothing at all, it just is that way based on my perception of the game right now.


---

I don't see the difference why it would matter.

Why didn't you just claim as soon as the game started then?

Well Mr. Roleblocker I hope you're better at roleblocking than you are at keeping secrets, because you "saved" yourself from a D1 lynch and bought yourself a N1 kill unless you block the right person.

[don_johnson]

I really am uncomfortable with this comment, just like I have a few of Dons posts. He will lynch just to avoid a no lynch... yet admits to not reading the game in full nor will he read the game.

a) it is day 1. i will absolutely lynch just to avoid a no-lynch. however, that is not what i am doing. i have laid my suspicions out and been as clear as possible with my reasoning. of what significance is my "reading the game"? i am reading it now. i am staying current. if there is something you think is of tremendous importance dwelling in the areas of the game that i have not read, why don't you point them out for me?

He is only going on what has been posted since he came into the game and

latched onto everyone elses suspicions

.

please explain the bolded. perhaps show some evidence. i believe i was the first to call disingenuity on that original waffling bullshit sandwich of words you called a post where you talked yourself into oh, what were they again? oh yeah, everyone elses suspicions.

Just seems he wants a lynch, any lynch without doing the work... he has already admitted he does not want to do the work (reading the game and forming his own opinions)

i didn't realize my opinions were not my own. how can you say i want "any lynch" when i have specifically and repeatedly been calling for ik's lynch above anyone elses?

[alexhans]

Shrinehme has requested to be replaced.

icemanE replaces Shrinehme.

Everyone give icemanE a big applause!

--------------------------------

Those in danger of suppression #23:

Idiotking (4)

-

don_johnson, Toro, jasonT1981, Zachrulez

toro (2)

-

icemanE, Idiotking

jasonT1981 (4)

-

hiphop, RedCoyote, ryan2754, DTMaster

Zachrulez (1)

-

Paradoxombie

Not Voting (1)

-

DeathRowKitty

Happiness with Posting Level:

HAPPY

Deadline:

Thursday 27th - 1000 hs (GMT - 3) (~=25 hs from now)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[jasonT1981]

I can answer all 3 with one statement in your own words...

not sure what the second part there means,

but no. i have not read the entire game, nor do i plan to.

if i get the chance, i will, but at this point i think I have plenty to go on and it is time consuming enough to stay current.

Every one of your assumptions, votes... 'cases' has been based on what you have read from you came into the game and to do that you would have had to have picked up on others suspicions without knowing the full games events.

your opinions can not fully be your own if you have not read the entire game and you would simply be latching onto others suspicions.. I already have pointed out something of dwelling importance... your refusal to read the game, and only go on what has happened since you replaced in.

[DeathRowKitty]

I understand this, but have your "feelings" on jason changed any at all?

No. Nothing's happened that could change them.

Now that we have less than a day until deadline,

vote: jason

Everyone give icemanE a big applause!

*applause*

[jasonT1981]

You really love vote hoping don't you DRK

what does it matter that it is a day to the deadline? If you believed me to be scum you would have kept your vote on me instead of taking it off and only voting me again because its close to deadline.

You really are desperate for any lynch you can grasp onto aint you?

[icemanE]

hey everybody, i'm replacing shrine and reading now

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm vote-hopping now because I unvoted and then revoted you? I've made a case against you, so no, I'm not just desperate for a lynch I can "grasp onto". In case you haven't been reading my posts from the past few pages, I already explained why I took my vote off. Nice try (actually it wasn't a nice try), but you fail to discredit me.

You're at L-2. Looking at who's voting who right now, IK probably isn't getting any more votes. That makes you the obvious lynch right now. (Unless someone else objects), claim or die.

[don_johnson]

wow. post 632: huge deflection.

though i would rather be lynching ik i am getting more and more comfortable with scumjason with each of his posts. i ask you for evidence of my behavior and you produce a blanket statement that doesn't address even the core of your accusations against me and vice versa. so again:

1) if there is something you think is of tremendous importance dwelling in the areas of the game that i have not read, why don't you point them out for me?

2) how can you say i want "any lynch" when i have specifically and repeatedly been calling for ik's lynch above anyone elses?

[DTMaster]

@IcemanE

WEEELLLLCOME! :3 I expect a good summary post on day two since today is deadline day.

@Toro
Awesome, you just full claimed. /sarcasm.

It doesn't change the fact that you are one of 2 prime NK targets if you are a PR, but it does almost confirm your township since there hasn't been a CC yet. You still deserve a

IGMIOY: Toro

simply because of your play, but I wouldn't heavily enforce it.

@RC
Ah I see, well that would me my fault of misinterpreting your statement. I agree that alone my case on Jason isn't sufficient towards a Jason lynch, but it's still part of the whole town case on him. That is the power of the township, discussions in thread lead us to expand and build on top of each other's cases/posts to hopefully catch scum :3

Also it's understandable that you are not as comfortable with my alignment since some of my actions/posts have a scummy interpretation. The game wouldn't be interesting if everyone had a black and white (town/scum) play wouldn't it?

For now all I can ask is just keep your eye on me and make your own judgment.

@Jason
You ignored my posts for a while, I questioned you a while back now... >>;;

@Town
I won't have computer access for most of the day so I might not be here if any new development happens. It's a bad time since it's deadline day but I'll try and get to a place with computer access soon. So consider my vote psudo-locked :<

[hiphop]

I believed [DRK] would of cast the hammer vote eventually if my vote remained. I don’t think you would be lynched without my vote.

You're kidding, right? I had the opportunity to hammer and I specifically said that no one should hammer until we were closer to the deadline. I seem to recall even suggesting that someone unvote. If we got close to the deadline (probably several hours) and IK was still alive, I would have hammered him, but no sooner. Read the thread before you make comments like this.

Apparently you didn't see the word

eventually

. Why don't you follow your own advice and read the thread?

Toro and dj are now safe from lynch due to claims, leaving IK and jason, my two top suspects. Having extra votes out just gives scum something to latch onto and a way to blend in with a wagon near a deadline.

So you are saying that being that you are not lynching scum, the scum will help get the lynch. Smooth?!

I've voiced my opinions throughout the thread.

They're there for you to read.

It's time for players who have been less vocal to commit to a lynch.

The part that I bolded tells me that you want people to follow your logic to vote for Jason. Either way people will vote for Jason. You still could of put your vote on him and it wouldn't have mattered. No doubt if Toro or Idk, instead of Jason, ended up getting a push for them you would of put your vote with the rest of the Bw. That was probably your real reason why you unvoted.

[jasonT1981]

@Jason
You ignored my posts for a while, I questioned you a while back now... >>;;

Oh sorry, I had thought I had answered everything put at me, If not I apologize could you tell me what post or re-ask them to me and I will have no problem answering them.

DRK - Claim or Die? big words from you... Maybe trying to fish for a night target?

[jasonT1981]

Basically DRK I will not claim just because of your demands of 'claim or die' if it is the general consensus of the town then I shall, but not just because one person is threatening me with 'claim or die'

[hiphop]

I think it would be best if you claimed Jason.

[jasonT1981]

OK fair enough.

I am town aligned Lie detector who gets to choose one persons post a night and I will get a report back from the Mod saying if they are telling the truth or not in what they said in that post.

[DeathRowKitty]

Apparently you didn't see the word eventually. Why don't you follow your own advice and read the thread?

I said no one should hammer. Why would I suddenly decide to hammer after saying that, even if I were scum? I suppose you're right that I would have hammered

eventually

given the opportunity, but the way you phrased it before, you seemed to be implying I was going to hammer out of the blue.

So you are saying that being that you are not lynching scum, the scum will help get the lynch. Smooth?!

Not what I meant. If bandwagons are already built up and we approach a deadline, scum can just put another vote on someone and blend in, including bussing their scummates. Having fewer votes on possible lynch candidates means that scum have to give their own two cents on the people they vote for. Also, I didn't want to put it in my previous response since it would have ruined the point of forcing scum to choose someone, but at the time of my unvote, I would give greater than a 90% chance of jason being lynched, so there really wasn't a risk (especially since the other 10% was IK). Seeing where the votes fall, especially since IK still had the most votes, can be very revealing.

No doubt if Toro or Idk, instead of Jason, ended up getting a push for them you would of put your vote with the rest of the Bw. That was probably your real reason why you unvoted.

I would have given support to an IK lynch, but I wouldn't have supported the lynch of a claimed town PR (toro).

[jasonT1981]

@ DRK Any reason why you are asking me to in your own words

, claim or die.

Then when I do (643) you make a post (644) aimed completely at IK & Hiphop ignoring my claim completely and not even a mention of me?

[hiphop]

I never said that you were going to hammer out of the blue, but I knew you would of not hesitated to cast the hammer vote eventually.

Seeing where your vote eventually falls and where it has been can be very revealing.

What about Jason? He claimed a town PR. Do you still support the lynch or will you change your vote again?

[jasonT1981]

Sorry, aimed completely at Hiphop without mention of my claim.

I could have sworn one of your quotes was an IK quote... I see it was just you mentioning IK

[DeathRowKitty]

Didn't notice the claim before I made that last post.

That claim definitely makes things more interesting. It's not the kind of standard claim you would expect from scum (doctor, cop, etc.), yet I have to wonder why he would ask for a second request to claim when he's the clear lynch candidate. I'm going to do an iso-read on jason and decide whether or not I believe the claim.

[jasonT1981]

I am not going to give in to just one person asking for a claim, for all I know it could be sum fishing for a NK target or outing a role.

If more than one ask then I have no problem claiming however I refuse to give in to a threat of

claim or die.

from one person, regardless if they are leading my lynch or not.