Mini 844 - P-p-plain! - Over

[Pomegranate]

/confirmatory!

[Pomegranate]

That's everyone, isn't it?

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Vote: AlmasterGM

.

Obvscum.

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Pom, why no Keelie vote?

Because her name is too long to type.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, you could shorten it.

Alm, what does Plum have to do with Pom not voting Keelie?

Kay then,

Unvote, Vote: Keelie

for having a name that's too long.

Same question directed at Alm.

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Pom, why no Keelie vote?

Because plum is obviously scum. The rhyme is just so catchy!

Alm, you referenced me here.

[Pomegranate]

In this post I'm going to dissect Kmd's post against me bit by bit, and refute each section.

Pom. Here's where things get interesting. She random votes. Someone who hasn't done a thing yet. No comment on my request for a Keelie wagon. No comment on Rosso's statement that Plum is obvscum. Nothing on CoCo's vote. Pom is looking to avoid attention

Whenever I start a game, during RVS I vote for someone that hasn't been voted for yet.

Here are some examples:
Newbie 818
Mafia #100
Open 165- for this game I repled in during RVS.

I generally like to see how everyone responds to random votes on them, and the only way to see more responses is to vote for someone that hasn't been voted for yet. I unvoted Almaster when he didn't respond to my vote. Then I joined your bandwagon on Keelie. Again responses. The reason for why I originally used the excuse that her name was too long to type. was to see how much you were going to try to convince me to vote for her.

Newer player, but intelligent individual. She seems a bit nervous by avoiding the first few posts and with her post before that.

Thanks for the complement. I don't understand what your second sentence is referring to. Could you please clarify?

"That's everyone, isn't it?". Comes off as a "let's start this, but I don't want to be the one to do it."

That was me saying "Tyfo, is that everyone? Can we start D1?" Generally I wait for the mod to say that confimations are over before I start random voting.

Then after I ask why she didn't vote Keelie, she says the name is too long. I doubt that's actually why she didn't vote Keelie. I suggested shortening it, and she gave in and voted. But not for wagon's sake, but for having a long name! Which is why she wouldn't vote in the first place.

I think I explained earlier why I gave an excuse not to vote for Keelie right away. And the reason I voted for Keelie wasn't because her name is too long. (Where'd I say that?)

So, on Pom:
-Anxious to start, yet nervous to draw attention
-Random votes instead of commenting on previous posts
-Bad reason on not voting Keelie
-Contradiction on the Keelie-long-name thing.
-Gave in to my pressure a bit too easily.
-Gave the "long name" reason, probably to avoid calling it a wagon vote.

Vote Pomegranate

I thing I rebuffed all your points well.

Also, FTR CoCo, I believe in rules. I won't communicate illegally with Keelie about the game, and if she does so to me (unintentionally of course. She wouldn't do so intentionally), I'll request that I be replaced.

If anyone's unaware, Plum is my older sister. We are being very careful not to communicate illegally with each other about the game. If one of us (unintentionally) does, then one/both of us will replace out.

Also, Konowa, do you have anything to say about me other than "I agree with whatever Kmd said."

[Pomegranate]

First of all,

Unvote

. Keelie's OMGUS response is exactly what I'd expect from Keelie as town. As scum, I'd expect more of a "Wait, how'd I slip up" kind of response.

Thus making it an optimal scum play?

Rosso is town. His post is obviously for reactions, but using a different player. I'd see this as a little bit suspicious if Keelie were scum, but even then, it would be weak considering my wagon request was the first post of the game, so a scumbuddy wouldn't be too worried. I simply can't find a strong scum motivation for his post. Therefore, Rosso is town.

Why do all posts have to have a motivation? What if the internal motivation is just to appear as though there is no motivation so that you get a town read?

CoCo is town. There were two posts at the time he posted. Both requested wagons. One included a vote. Another didn't. The logical thing to do is to vote for the one who didn't vote. CoCo did that. Town.

So ... scum don't act logically? If the person who didn't vote is town and CoCo is scum, why would CoCo have any problem smacking a vote on them?

KScope is town. After some non-game threads I've seen, it makes sense that he'd follow Rosso the way he did. And the "slow game" comment is consistent with Drawn Together, where Scope was town.

All of your town reads seem to be of the opinion that "making sense" is an exclusively town trait and "not making sense" is a scumtell. This is false. Scum make sense all the time - it's their job. Also, in this case specifically, considering your metric for evaluating what "makes sense" isn't even from a legitimate game, I find this argument dubious at best.

Lew is my third suspect. Jumps on the wagon I started. Seems to want it to go all the way to a lynch. Then wants to set up tomorrow's lynch on the player who started it. Terrible logic. Hypocracy as well. Calls the wagon "pointless" in next post (nobody else had even posted yet!), but then says Keeluie hasn't defended herself. Wishy washy stance, especially considering he voted Keelie. Then he changes his mind when nobody else has even posted again! Unvotes and votes CoCo. Lew, what made you switch? I personally suspect that you were worried about how you'd be looked at for voting Keelie.

So, my case on Lew:
-Wagon jump with intent to lynch

Uh, I'm missing the intent to lynch part. As far as I read it, he just cast a normal random vote.

-Setting up a chain lynch
-Says to suspect the player who started the wagon, which
----is bad logic
----is hypocritical

Another misquote. He clearly states that he doesn't like day-start games because it's possible to accidentally lynch a pro-town power role. He then says (with a simile) that if that happens, the person who started the wagon should come under suspect. This makes perfect sense - if someone starts a wagon on the cop, don't you suspect them? Minimally, even if not, I fail to see the scumtell you are calling here. I also fail to see how it is hypocritical. You need more explanation.

-Calls the wagon pointless while still being on it AND making a point against Keelie

He gets off it right afterwards.

-Switches to CoCo for no good reason.

Actually, he does give a reason, and given all the random voting, it's not a bad one at that.

So, you're welcome guys. I've given you the scum team on Page 3. Pom, Lew, and Raiv. (That line sounds too much like Mastin for my comfort. Actually, so does that one. I'll stop now. Damn, Mastin would say that too!)

No. What you have done is cleared a lot of people based on nonsense and made a few bad cases. For someone with, like, six thousand posts, I'm not impressed at all.

Vote: Kmd4390

I agree that it's a mostly pointless case, but why are you answering for lewarcher? I'm sure he can explain himself fine. You could be scum defending your scumbuddy for all I know. Let people answer cases( and questions) directed at them by themselves.

[Pomegranate]

I agree that it's a mostly pointless case, but why are you answering for lewarcher? I'm sure he can explain himself fine.

You could be scum defending your scumbuddy for all I know

. Let people answer cases( and questions) directed at them by themselves.

Why?

The bolded, and also that I would've liked to see how lewarcher would've defended himself from Kmd's accusations. The different ways that people react are useful to notice and analyze.

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Pom, to your meta points:
Newbie 818- Had nothing but pointless random votes at the time you voted. Nothing to really look at like the votes that myself, Rosso, and CoCo gave.

Mafia 100- Is ongoing and I refuse to discuss this any further.

165- Ongoing as well.

So. None of your meta points have anything to do with what you've done here. There was real stuff to comment on. Three posts that actually said something that you could have responded to. Instead, you make a completely random vote and don't say a word about the posts before yours.

What did Rosso's vote, Coco's vote, and your own vote have to look at, as opposed to mine?

You say you voted Alm to get a response from him. Well, he ignored your vote. First of all, what kind of response were you looking for from a random vote? Second, why not question him? Why let him off and join my wagon on Keelie? What did you learn from my push for you to vote Keelie?

I wasn't expecting a response. He didn't respond, so I joined your wagon on Keelie.

The nervousness I saw was a feel I got from your posts. You seemed to be trying to post without really saying anything that would grab anyone's attention.

Like what? Some examples?

To you saying you never said you voted Keelie for having a long name: See your vote post. It's the reason you gave.

I said it wasn't any real reason. I can't make a post like "I'm going to join Kmd's bandwagon to see how Keelie responds." You don't get responses that way.

Plum should say something too.

She's in school right now. She'll be home later.

[Pomegranate]

Rosso called Plum obvscum. You could have:
A) Agreed and voted Plum.
B) Called out Rosso.

I called Alm obvscum too, IIRC.

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Why not respond to my other points?

Gotta go now. Will be back on later.

[Pomegranate]

Pom is actually right, Alm. If you answer for people, you make things too easy for them. This is especially bad if you are town answering for scum, because we don't get their reaction to pressure. You make it easier for them, and they can coast to victory.

Unfortunately, I don't think lew is scum, so I don't think this is an issue.

Personally I don't find Lew to be very scummy, but that's beside the point. you should've let him answer for himself.

[Pomegranate]

Why not respond to my other points?

Gotta go now. Will be back on later.

Pom is actually right, Alm. If you answer for people, you make things too easy for them. This is especially bad if you are town answering for scum, because we don't get their reaction to pressure. You make it easier for them, and they can coast to victory.

Unfortunately, I don't think lew is scum, so I don't think this is an issue.

Personally I don't find Lew to be very scummy, but that's beside the point. you should've let him answer for himself.

So you're back and can respond now?

I had time for a quick post. Like right now. Will hopefully answer questions by later tomorrow afternoon.

[Pomegranate]

My vote requested a bandwagon. You could have:
A) Wagoned by voting Keelie
B) Called me out for requesting a wagon.

Rosso called Plum obvscum. You could have:
A) Agreed and voted Plum.
B) Called out Rosso.

^Both Rosso and myself made a vote/statement that was obviously not backed by anything and appeared more confident than we could have been. It's a good place to start.

CoCo made a decent point on Rosso. You could have:
A) Agreed with the point.
B) Disagreed with the point.

Also note that CoCo

did

choose option B regarding Rosso.

When I start a game, I always vote for someone who doesn't have any votes on them. I always just do that, unless there is some reason why not too. Kmd, I think that you're carrying on with this point for too long.

What happened:
During random voting stage I voted for somone. That person didn't have any votes on him. You criticize me for not commenting on other posts/votes, which I didn't see as necessary, considering that it was RVS.

Wait, so you voted Alm for a response, but didn't expect to get one? That seems... off.

I've never played with many of the players in this game, so I chose one randomly (Alm )and voted for him. I didn't have any specific expectations, considering that I've never played with him before. Therefore I didn't know how he'd respond, and not commenting was as good of a response as any, in my opinion.

But making your Keelie vote look random doesn't get a response from her either.

A second vote is more pressure than a first. It's not my fault she didn't respond. Come to think of it, I'd like to hear more from her, as well as other people who haven't posted much content.

I had time for a quick post. Like right now. Will hopefully answer questions by later tomorrow afternoon.

Do you need time to make up scum answers?

I actually (*gasp*) have a life that requires tending to once in a while.

/sarcasm

I had school today, and work to do last night.

[Pomegranate]

You stress that it was the RVS, but none of the posts before yours were random votes. Mine was a reactionary vote. Rosso made a reactionary statement. CoCo voted with an actual reason. Commenting on any of these things is much more productive than a random vote.

Also, you need to clarify. You said your vote was a random vote for someone with no votes. You've also said you were looking for reactions from Alm (but were satisfied with no reaction???). Which is it?

I chose randomly (from people who didn't have votes on them) one person, who I voted. I wanted to see if there was going to be an interesting reaction, but I didn't really see one coming.

kmd, youre an idiot, stop writing books on the level of War and Peace for your posts

QFT

Also, Kmd, you seem extremely obsessed with getting me lynched. I would ask why, but I don't see the point. Just wanted to point that out.

[Pomegranate]

Doesn't really sound like you were looking for reactions then. Why bring that up?

I wasn't looking because that's what I meant by it. I should have clarified.

Also, Kmd, you seem extremely obsessed with getting me lynched. I would ask why, but I don't see the point. Just wanted to point that out.

Well, of course. You are my top suspect, so I want you lynched. That's how I play.

Sorry, I never played with you before. Now I know.

[Pomegranate]

Quote failure. Blah.

[Pomegranate]

Kmd, am I still your #1 suspect? Why or why not? Would you still like to see me lynched?


Aside from that, I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on answering questions directed at another person/other people. Do you think it's scummy or not? Why?

I think I've expressed my views on this already.

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I forgot in my previous post: Raivann just keeps getting scummier... he doesn't explain himself. How did you come to the conclusion that the scumteam is Kmd, Plum, and Kscope? Why is Alm town? Why is CoCo scum? What happened to your previous scum view? Why did it change? Did something specific invalidate it, or did you just have a change of mind? If you just changed your mind, then why?

Lotsa Whys.

[Pomegranate]

I think it's alot scummier to sit back and lurk and try to blend in than it is to post your suspicions and ruffle feathers.

I didn't think I was doing that, being that I was at school today. But if you'd like it, here's what I got:

-Kmd

At first when he started making a case on me, I just answered, not really thinking that much of it. But he keeps going at me, and presenting the same accusations (,each of which I refuted many times). Raiv could be a possible scumbuddy, and they could be distancing themselves. Plum could also be, considering the way she mentioned Kmd, but I don't know. I'd like to see what she has to say. She didn't really seem bothered by the way Kmd was tunneling me, nor did she comment much on Kmd or me (,like she said she would in post 75. I know she's rushed as she keeps saying it, as in in the thread, but she only posted once since then).

I think that seemed slightly more suspicious of Plum than I am, but you get my point. She's acting a different. Well that was a lot about Plum. Considering it was supposed to be my paragraph on Kmd, I guess this is the place to

Fos: Kmd

-Raiv

One thing that's bugging me: Why does CoCo voting for Alm make him scummy? Why must Alm be town? Even if he is, does that automatically make him scum?

Wanna get a few things straight.

With that I'm done for now. I'll post more later.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry I haven't been on since yesterday. I was somewhat surprised to come on and see that Kmd had been lynched.

I've never played with Kmd before so I don't know his playstyle, but he was sure acting scummy. Today when I was in school I was contemplating whether or not to vote for him; I concluded that I should have, but he was lynched before I got home. His cop claim made me flinch, but I still get scummy vibes from him. Shouldn't he have explained why he played the way he did when he claimed? I don't know how he acts as cop, but in general, cop shouldn't be played that way. I found his case on me, especially early game far too aggressive. I think some of his other cases were too (like his one on lewarcher).

I feel somewhat confident with today's lynch. Waiting for Tyfo.

[Pomegranate]

xofelf, I don't play any roles differently. There is one exception and that didn't work out so well (beloved princess).

According to the rules, I don't think you're allowed to talk.

[Pomegranate]

Kmd. You bugged me D1, even though I understood your plan.

(Just so everyone knows, we weren't allowed to talk pregame. Take a close look at the rules.)

At the end of D1 I thought we had a fine chance, but once I was killed it didn't seem like we were in a good position.

I guess I didn't plat that well D1, but I was happy that Plum said she saw me as town at the end of D1.Considering she probably knows my meta better than anyone else on the site.

This was my first game as scum; if anyone has suggestions as to how I can improve it for the future than I'd be happy.

GG Town.

[Pomegranate]

Pom, distancing keeps us both active and if one of us dies, the other looks town. Our vig saw through it though, apparently...

You did a great job defending yourself though.

I thought someone might see through it. Also, thanks for the complement! I wondered about my defense too...

[Pomegranate]

pom you played just fine. your scum buddies played bad. It wasnt by any of your actions that i realized you were scum, but becasue of kmd

Thought so. Thanks.