Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[alexhans]

I am unsure if a tracker would count as "visiting" someone

Mod Note:

While this may seem strange to some, a track doesn't count as a visit. Inspections, protections, blocks, kills, all involve being close to the target. Tracking can be done from a distance.

[don_johnson]

i am confirmed.

yours and zach's results conflict

. if you are town and don't want to be lynched then you should be focusing on proving to me that zach is the final scum, not giving me lip. got it?

weak.

no. not weak.

I did recently notice the point you make about zach and my results, but I am unsure if a tracker would count as "visiting" someone.

if you are unsure that's fine, but it surprises me that the results conflicting doesn't raise your suspicion of zach. mod has now confirmed for us, so yeah, scratch that.

Also, why would scum fakeclaim watcher like Zach did?

why not? this is hardcore wifom. perhaps zach is scum watcher. i refer you to mini 737 hack poetry mafia. i was scum watcher, claimed town watcher and won. scum fakeclaim. why? so they have cover until endgame. same reason you might have fakeclaimed "tracker".

i do have suspicions of zach, but i am not going to post them for you to see, yet. if you think i'm scum then you are either scum or you are not paying attention. you know i've made visits, you know my targets didn't die. what's my role if its not two shot doc? why would i have protected ryan as scum? that alone makes no sense.

make your case on zach. i'm willing to listen, but pushing suspicion on me is out of touch at this point.

why would you track ryan? what information did you hope to gain when the plan was for him to kill you? if you were suspicious of either zach or i, why didn't you track one of us to see if we were lieing?

sorry paradox, but you are coming off the worst in all of this, so tell me why zach is scum.

mod: does "watching" count as a visit?

[don_johnson]

rereading zach's claim and it seems way more believable than yours. i want zach's opinion here.

zach: i am fairly convinced here that paradox is scum. yours and my targets make the most sense from town perspective and the fact that paradox is casting suspicion today without any logic whatsoever give me the inclination that he is scum.

paradox: how do you explain the night 1 kill not going through given that mafia had a ninja? i guess what i'm saying is that given the evidence, it seems like you should be more suspicious of zach than of me(if jason attempted the nk then he targeted you, and i protected you.) so your attack on me just seems forced and oppurtunistic. the fact that that kill didn't go through is the piece that doesn't really fit in the case against you, and it surprises me that you aren't really addressing that.

[alexhans]

mod: does "watching" count as a visit?

Yes it does. If there's a watcher that watches another watcher he will see who that watcher watched...

You can totally sig that.

[Zachrulez]

See, Don did visit Ryan on night 2.

If his action was not a doc protect, what was it?

I really can't see Don as scum.

[don_johnson]

^^ yes.

paradox: the only way this could be untrue is if zach is lieing. the only reason zach would have to lie is if zach was scum. if i and zach were both scum then the game would be over, so logically, between zach and i, only zach has the potential to be scum here. does that make sense? from your pov could i be something like a rolecop? sure, but why would a mafia rolecop investigate a claimed vig? i guess a mafia watcher would have reason to watch the claimed power role in order to hunt a doc or cop, but then why would i watch you on night one(which you have confirmed as having been the case)? its all wifomic, but i think it makes the most sense for me to be obvtown here. also, if zach was scum all he would have to do is agree with you, which he doesn't. that doesn't mean he's necessarily town as he could just be playing well as scum.

my main issue with townzach is this: mafia had a ninja on night one. town roleblocker blocked the goon. why would mafia have the goon carry out a kill over a potentially untrackable/unwatchable nightkiller? it makes more sense to think that jason did indeed make the nk and that he targeted paradox, whom i protected. that would implicate paradoxombie as town which is the main reason paradox has remained low on my scum list all game. this is a tough one.

if you could both post exactly what you think the set-up is that would be helpful. if you believe the other to be scum, then what type of scum role would they possess and how do you explain their targets. if you still think i am scum then do the same for me. i need to think a bit more on this, but i will post my set-up speculation as well.

[Paradoxombie]

You can't simultaneously attack me and say you blocked the kill N1. You can't have it both ways. You would be voting zach if you were sure of that yourself. I also agreed to your plan expecting to be killed.


I am unsure what the setup is, but I'm very suspicious of the fact that you rapidly changed your mind about ryan and saw zach as clear for little reason yesterday. You also claimed a powerrole and weren't killed.

I've been suspicious of zach before. And I've been in a situation like this before where one guy was quiet and two guys were super active arguing with each other, and the two of us ended up distracted and lost because of it. I am also starting to think zach because his post today looks the most like an attempt to float through. If Don was scum he could easily go after me and win, but that seems more like what zach is doing. Backing the guy who backed him yesterday. Don you look more paranoid like me.

[don_johnson]

I am unsure what the setup is, but I'm very suspicious of the fact that you rapidly changed your mind about ryan and saw zach as clear for little reason yesterday. You also claimed a powerrole and weren't killed.

ryan survived quite a while with a vig claim. zak has also claimed power and not been killed. if you recall, i didn't full claim and did my best to not alert players to the fact that i was, in fact, a protective role. when playing doc it is tricky because you don't want to come off as too pro town early and draw the nightkill. you, yourself, have stated you were suspicious enough of me on day 1 to "track" me. your suspicions are as "wishy-washy" as mine in that regard.

I've been suspicious of zach before. And I've been in a situation like this before where one guy was quiet and two guys were super active arguing with each other, and the two of us ended up distracted and lost because of it.

I am also starting to think zach because his post today looks the most like an attempt to float through.

If Don was scum he could easily go after me and win, but that seems more like what zach is doing. Backing the guy who backed him yesterday. Don you look more paranoid like me.

agreed here. one thing i noticed in zach iso is the lack of "effort". not sure if that's the right wording here, but he seems to have been coasting through much of this game and relying on his roleclaim. additionally, until i can reconcile what happened to the mafia kill on night one it is difficult to suspect you enough to vote you(paradox). i don't know if i successfully stopped the kill. jason could have gotten paranoid and sent a goon in his place seeing as how he claimed town power on day 1. by doing so he may have been paranoid of being "watched" or "tracked" and thusly sent his goon to do the killing which would support the idea that toro stopped the kill. that would make you more likely scum.

i am in quite a pickle but i am still surprised that you harbor suspicion of me based on the evidence at hand. if you think i am scum i would like you to speculate on what my role would be and why i would have chosen you night 1 and ryan night 2. i am going to reread the timing around zach's claim(again) and see if anything seems off.

zach: i suggest you participate a bit more here as i am going to need much more convincing either way before i cast my vote.

i really thought we had this one and am now wondering if mafia no-killed and ryan self-vigged.

mod: if player a targets player b and player b targets player a, both with a nightkill, does submission order reflect upon who dies, or would both players bite the dust?

[don_johnson]

to clarify:

You can't simultaneously attack me and say you blocked the kill N1.

i am not trying to have it both ways. if i stopped the kill by protecting you then you are town. what i amstruggling with is whether or not id did, in fact, stop the kill or a different scenario played out.

I am unsure what the setup is, but I'm very suspicious of the fact that you rapidly changed your mind about ryan and saw zach as clear for little reason yesterday.

i "cleared" zach because of his watcher results and claim. not only did it seem genuine(it still does upon reread), but his results matched up with mine. that doesn't mean he can't be mafia watcher, but i seemed more sure that scum was between hiphop/dtm, etc. and i was almost positive that ryan was sk when his kill was the only one that came up.

as for the change of heart with ryan, as i said earlier, i was two shot doc. i have been bluffing protection the last two nights. with four of us going to night phase last night i was worried about skryan making a "rogue" maneuver, such as targeting zach or myself. he probably wouldn't have targeted zach because he would think the kill would fail, however, then there would just be a no-kill, so it might have been worth a shot. targeting me, however, may have been a good shot for an sk because he could then have started today with "well i thought don was scum so i took him out".

perhaps a long shot, but in my experience, it is just never a good idea to carry a nightkiller into lylo. in fact, had he hypothetically targeted a townie last night he would have been auto lynched today, so you can actually see the benefit now that he didn't survive the night.

oh goodness. it doesn't make much sense for scum to have killed ryan either. in fact, scum zach would most likely have no-killed which is why i need an answer from the mod on my rules question. maybe i can dig it up myself here.

post 53 iso of alexhans suggests natural resolution meaning ryan either nokilled or self vigged. hmm.

scum zach knew he would not be a target and so most certainly would have triggered ryan thinking that with two kills he would win then and there. scum paradox would have aticipated being targeted by ryan and so would have either no-killed in hopes that ryan did the same(unlikely) or shot ryan or a different townie. sorry, i thought this might help but i think i've talked myself into a dead end. ugh.

[don_johnson]

^^ apologies for the train of thought mess here. the nk is not helpful at all. i initially thought scumzach would simply no-kill, but that wouldn't make any sense, unless he believed ryan to be sk and was worried about an unightkillable effect(that some sk's have) and stayed home to avoid being tracked?

on the other hand, scum paradox would have known he(or his victim) was not going to be watched and so would have not hesitated with taking out the suspected vig/sk.

again, i apologize here, but this game is tieing my brain in knots. i may step away for a bit here.

[alexhans]

mod: if player a targets player b and player b targets player a, both with a nightkill, does submission order reflect upon who dies, or would both players bite the dust?

In the event of a cross kill (with no other interactions) both players die.

[don_johnson]

just reread the entire game. i am going with my gut on this one. zach's actions and targets are way more plausible as town than as scum and if he is scum then he's done a great job.

i hate the fact that he seems to be coasting here, but:

vote: paradoxombie

scum zach wouldn't have killed ryan last night for fear of being tracked. i think jason got paranoid on night one and had the goon call in the kill. my stomach is in knots over this one. i think paradox painted himself into a corner with his claim. his suspicions seem illogical. also, if zach is scum watcher then i should have been the target night 2 as zach would have probably guessed that i wasn't protected.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[Zachrulez]

Vote: paradoxombie

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #37:

DTMaster (2) -

don_johnson, Zachrulez

Not Voting (1)

-

Paradoxombie

With 3 alive it took 2 to lynch.

Muffled screams

OUTCOME SOON.... Please wait. Please avoid pming each other.

[alexhans]

A triangle is not in equilibrium when the forces don't receive the same push from each side.

This triangle is about to break.

The one and the opposite match their strenght .

The second one observes and waits.

"Come on..." - The first one pleads - "Help me destroy him... I can't do it on my own..."

He finally strikes.

The second one acts.

They use their combined forces to produce a blinding ray that eliminates the the anomaly, forever.

The one looks at the second one in relief.

"We did it! We should be able to become one and wake up soon"

He waits.

He keeps waiting.

Preocupation.

He looks around.

He is alone.

"What?! NO! Wait!!!"

A sudden explosion swipes the entire space leaving the last echo of a frigthened scream as the only remainder of what has just happened

Paradoxombie, Tracker, has been lynched Day 5

don_johnson, 2 shot doctor, has been eliminated in Endgame

Meanwhile, in an individual room of a psychiatric institution, located in a big city, part of a thriving world two former doctors lie in a pool of mixed blood. Syringes all over their bodies and a deep cut in their throats.

The bed is empty.

The world should be afraid.

Mafia wins

Congratulations to Zachrulez, jasonT1981 and DeathRowKitty

[alexhans]

Great Game Everyone!!! It was really enjoyable!

(although I'm a bit sad for the looney guy)

Quicktopic:

Scum Quicktopic

Highlights:

Intro
Votecounts
Day 1 Lynch

Idiotking, Vanilla Townie, Lynched.

Night 1 Outcome

DeathRowKitty, Mafia Goon, Eliminated.

Day 2 Lynch

Toro, Roleblocker, Lynched.

Night 2 Outcome

jasonT1981 , mafia ninja, Eliminated.

AND

RedCoyote, Vanilla Townie, Eliminated.

Day 3 Lynch

hiphop, Townie, lynched.

Night 3 Outcome

IcemanE

Shrinehme

, Vanilla Townie, Eliminated.

Day 4 Lynch

DTMaster, Vanilla Townie, Lynched.

Night 4 Outcome

Paradoxombie, Tracker, Lynched.

]Day 5 Lynch

don_johnson

dank

, 2 shot doctor, Eliminated.

Roles:

Mafia:

DeathRowKitty: Mafia Goon
jasonT1981 , mafia ninja
Zachrulez, mafia watcher.

Town:

Idiotking: Vanilla Townie.
IcemanE

Shrinehme

: Vanilla Townie
Toro: Town Roleblocker
RedCoyote: Vanilla Townie
hiphop: Townie.
DTMaster: Vanilla Townie
ryan2754: Vigilante
Paradoxombie: Tracker
don_johnson

dank

2 shot doctor.

Night Actions:

Nigth 1:

Toro blocks DeathRowKitty
ryan2754 kills DeathRowKitty
don_johnson protects Paradoxombie
Zachrulez watches don_johnson
jasonT1981 kills Paradoxombie (fails)
Paradoxombie tracks don_Johnson

Nigth 2:

don_johnson protects ryan2754
ryan2754 kills jasonT1981
jasonT1981 kills RedCoyote
Zachrulez Watches ryan2754
Paradoxombie Tracks Zachrulez

Nigth 3:

ryan2754 Kills IcemanE.
Zachrulez doesn't kill.
Zachrulez Watches don_johnson.
Paradoxombie doesn't submit an action.

Nigth 4:

Zachrulez kills ryan2754
Zachrulez Watches don_johnson
ryan2754 Doesnt kill
Paradoxombie Tracks Ryan

Role PMs:

Zachrulez

You are a

mafia watcher

Your partners are

DeathRowKitty

and

jasonT1981

, You may target a player to be watched, thus discovering who targeted that player. You will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing [Name(s)] or [None].

The scum Quicktopic is here

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

"You've got the cunning and the sneaky ways. Destroy any threat that may stand against total domination. All soon will be yours!"

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

DeathRowKitty

, you are a

mafia goon

, Your partners are

Zachrulez

and

jasonT1981

.

The scum Quicktopic is here

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

"Eat, kill, never rest, drive him crazy, control what's left."

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

jasonT1981

, you are a

mafia ninja

, Your partners are

Zachrulez

and

DeathRowKitty

, You can't be watched or tracked by any watching or tracking role.

The scum Quicktopic is here

You win if at least one member of your group is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

"Destroy, you can spread alzheimer in your path... There will be no punishment for you. You're invincible!"

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

dank

, you're a

2 shot doctor

, twice in a game you may target a player to be protected, this will protect them from one kill for one night. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

"You've got an amazing healing power. you've got faith. But the problem is... You have to ration you energy because everyday, with the overall demise, you get weaker."

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

Paradoxombie

, you're a

Tracker

, you may target a player to be tracked, thus discovering who that player targeted in the same night phase. You will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing [Name(s)] or [None].

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

"You've always been an analytical personality. Use that smarts of yours to find what you're against before they find you."

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

Toro

, you're a

roleblocker

, you may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions will fail for the current night phase. The targeted player will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing [Blocked].

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

"You have a very powerful containing ability. You may be able to limit the damage in a forceful approach. Use it wisely."

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia

---------------------------------------------------------------

ryan2754

, you're a

Vigilante

, you may, each night, target to kill a player.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

"With great power comes great responsability... You don't want to destroy your own mind, don't you?"

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

Shrinehme

, you're a

Vanilla Townie

, you've got no other powers than your skills and presence of mind.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

Idiotking

, you're a

Vanilla Townie

, you've got no other powers than your skills and presence of mind.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

DTMaster

, you're a

Vanilla Townie

, you've got no other powers than your skills and presence of mind.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

hiphop

, you're a

Vanilla Townie

, you've got no other powers than your skills and presence of mind.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia
---------------------------------------------------------------

RedCoyote

, you're a

Vanilla Townie

, you've got no other powers than your skills and presence of mind.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm in the thread: Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia

[don_johnson]

damnit. sorry guys. can we see roles, night actions, and the qt thread?

[jasonT1981]

YESSSSSSSS! I never thought we could pull it off but well done Zach

[DTMaster]

Noooo. Well I would have voted Paradox because of the whole:

1. Late claim which reads as too convienient.
2. The whole did not chose on night 3 when scum withheld their NK.
3. You didn't announced who you tracked.

[DeathRowKitty]

Zach rulez

I think that sums things up quite nicely.

Also, ryan

[DTMaster]

<3 Ryan and his vig play here. <3

[don_johnson]

Noooo. Well I would have voted Paradox because of the whole:

1. Late claim which reads as too convienient.
2. The whole did not chose on night 3 when scum withheld their NK.
3. You didn't announced who you tracked.

^^ yeah. i still feel bad though. i pretty much organized the town into a slaughterhouse. unfortunately i do feel bad about ruining ryan's game. best vig performance i ever saw.

[Shrinehme]

Darn. Before I replaced out, I did an iso read on Zachrulez, and I placed him as town. Blech.

GG's guys. Thanks, IcemanE.

[Zachrulez]

It took way too long for Ryan to meet his end.

My plan was for him to be lynched after the no kill, but after that didn't work out I decided not to push my luck plus I was a bit concerned about a tie going to the SK (Which is what I thought Ryan was likely to be.)

[Zachrulez]

To that end I'm not sure why I wasn't lynched on day 3. I thought my efforts to try to save Talbot on day 1 were pretty transparent, but maybe that's just because I knew who the scum were.