Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Kmd4390

for being the first person to get lynched in the first game.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: StrangerCoug

in the hopes I'm right this time.

Well, you're going to be wrong. Again.

[StrangerCoug]

No real read on SC. Maybe slightly scum for attempting to recreate an easy lynch, but it's probably the weakest read I've ever had.

Good, because I'd be on you if you seriously pursued me on that, especially considering nobody other than the mod had posted in thread yet.

[StrangerCoug]

Everyone, what do you think of Gorrad?

Nothing seems off. Some players dislike random voting and will use other means to generate discussion (for example, The Fonz asks everybody questions).

Why wouldn't you read through the other posts before just voting?

I did read some, but usually the RVS isn't meant to be taken seriously. Hence the term random votes.

I've been playing here for awhile. I know what RVS is for and what it potentially starts. So you don't need to talk down at me. I'd greatly appreciate it.

Then don't vote me for something as petty as voting for the same reason you did, when it had nothing to do with you.

Unvote: Kmd4390

and

vote: MonkeyMan576

. This is coming off as a hissy fit over something that doesn't matter very much.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Why is Monkey more deserving of a vote than Starbuck? It looks like they were both equally throwing a "hissy fit." And how does throwing a hissy fit = scummy?

MonkeyMan's post comes off to me as telling Starbuck how to random vote. Heck, if the mod let me, I'd vote God as my random vote as I do not consider myself religious. But God is not in this game (well, He kind of is, but He is not playing) and this is not a religion-based game, so I have to find something else that'll make me happy during the RVS.

Starbuck didn't come off to me as doing anything necessarily wrong, but I do see what you mean upon reread of her. If there were a point to their argument, I would not refer to it as a hissy fit. There isn't, so to answer your second question, they're engaging in a distraction from scumhunting, which is scummy.

@SC: Starbuck is the one causing the hissy fit. All I asked was for her to admit her vote wasn't serious, but she refuses. She's pressing hard for a reaction, without regard to the logic of what she's saying or doing.

Trying to get reactions is

GOOD

There are times where scum is more likely to respond one way and town another.

[StrangerCoug]

Okay, this is just getting stupid. Let me know when you guys want to move on.

And you can't do this yourself because?

[StrangerCoug]

Nothing seems off. Some players dislike random voting and will use other means to generate discussion (for example, The Fonz asks everybody questions).

What did Gorrad do to start discussion?

He waited awhile with his vote until he saw a use for it. Fairly simple.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Could you fix my quote tag please?

quote tags fixed

[StrangerCoug]

SC, he'd have to bank on being called on it. I don't see it as an intentional discussion starter.

I beg to differ. Some people think something's up with not random voting, others don't see a problem. Current site meta seems to be against a refusal to random vote, but I don't think not random voting is scummy. It

DID

generate some discussion, which you and I are actually engaging in.

Monkey has not been back to the thread since all of this started, even to defend himself. I've played with him before and normally he at least stands up for himself. As someone as seasoned in mafia as Monkey is, it is odd that he'd give up over something so small.

Has he posted elsewhere on site since?

[StrangerCoug]

Well,

I

certainly don't think Gorrad's scummy at this point, Kmd4390. You were the first person to post something that pays any attention to it, and nobody said anything toward you regarding the matter until you asked us for our opinions. The scummy/not scummy discussion bit is something you started, not Gorrad.

[StrangerCoug]

Well,

I

certainly don't think Gorrad's scummy at this point, Kmd4390. You were the first person to post something that pays any attention to it, and nobody said anything toward you regarding the matter until you asked us for our opinions. The scummy/not scummy discussion bit is something you started, not Gorrad.

Then WHAT discussion was he starting? You are saying he didn't vote because he wanted to start discussion. I don't see anything.

Hint: They're called reactions.

I am here. I am choosing not to respond in protest, which is what I originally said.

How does protesting by not posting help the town? Anyone with sense knows that doing that is anti-information.

I am here. I am choosing not to respond in protest, which is what I originally said.

If you don't like the wagon on you, then do something about it. "Protesting" is asinine and doesn't do anything to help the town. If you really feel that we are somehow being "unfair" then realize that this is a game, and sometimes "unfair" things happen. Sitting out and pouting until things go your way is something that a petulant child would do.

I think it's pretty clear Starbuck is tunneling and taking a something silly(me voting for the same reason she did) out of proportion. It was totally a coincedence. The only thing I'm guilty of is not reading every post. A lot of people seem willing to lynch someone over that, and it's quite disturbing.

I love OMGUS...

NOT!

Where's the nearest rope?

I'm definitely not tunneling. I have focused on others as well, but you are acting immature and rude to everyone else in this game. And your appeals to emotion really aren't helping your case with me which is why my vote hasn't moved.


And I'm not taking what you did out of proportion. It's how you reacted to the situation. You straight up left the game and said that you weren't coming back until the lynch was off you. Now, in my eyes, that means I just caught scum.

This is bullshit. If stuff like this was constantly being directed at me I wouldn't feel much like playing either.

I think you misinterpreted Starbuck as talking to you instead of MonkeyMan576.

[StrangerCoug]

You clearly have no interest in discussion, just pointing fingers and making accusations. That's why I left the game. You can think whatever you want.

This is beyond hypocritical coming from the person who refuses to engage in discussion. YOU clearly have no interest in discussion if you are just going to disappear and wait for other to change the subject for you.

If you had an interest in discussion, then you could have taken the discussion somewhere else instead of siting by idly and doing nothing except complain.

Quoted for truth. I know it's only page five, but the more talk I see about MonkeyMan576 being scum for disappearing until the wagon on him goes away, the more I think we've hit the jackpot on scum.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: You do know that Gorrad already said that the ONLY reason he DID NOT RANDOM VOTE, was because he just "didn't feel like it." Correct? Regardless of what resulted from his non-vote, he did not have any specific intentions.

That seems to be why Kmd4390 is not satisfied by what I'm giving him...

Also I did post a semi-lengthy post at the end of page 4 right before the mod did a vote count, in case anyone missed it or got distracted because of the discussion on this page.

I saw that post of yours, and I do find it well-reasoned. I have yet to see Gorrad do much.

I don't like his actions but 1: I don't think they justify the personal attacks hes getting directed at him and 2: I don't think its very indicative of his alignment.

Minor FoS: chamber

. 1 is understandable, but 2 comes off a little as buddying him.

Well,

I

certainly don't think Gorrad's scummy at this point, Kmd4390. You were the first person to post something that pays any attention to it, and nobody said anything toward you regarding the matter until you asked us for our opinions. The scummy/not scummy discussion bit is something you started, not Gorrad.

Then WHAT discussion was he starting? You are saying he didn't vote because he wanted to start discussion. I don't see anything.

Hint: They're called reactions.

WHAT reactions? I still don't see anything that came from this?

What do you expect me to give you, a 25-page report on him? I am not Gorrad; therefore, I cannot tell you his thought processes other than what he has said already about them. I can make educated guesses, but even those are wrong. If there were no reactions to what he did, this conversation would not be happening.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote:
Vote: Semioldguy

He's attacked my posting, yet he's only posted like four times so far, and it's all pretty much been related to me(ie following Starbuck). He's been doing no scumhunting on his own.

This is OMGUS, not to mention that you've pretty much made yourself the topic of discussion through your actions.

Nothing seems off. Some players dislike random voting and will use other means to generate discussion (for example, The Fonz asks everybody questions).

What do you expect me to give you, a 25-page report on him? I am not Gorrad; therefore, I cannot tell you his thought processes other than what he has said already about them. I can make educated guesses, but even those are wrong. If there were no reactions to what he did, this conversation would not be happening.

Thanks for conceding your original point.

You're quite welcome, sir.

O_o

Um. Scum knows who the town is... they don't need to *guess* to hit town. And how exactly does your opinion on who is town make them "confirmed" ?

I seriously doubt any scum in ANY game would ever use other players opinions of who's townie or not to direct their kills. That is just senseless.

That's not necessarily true that scum know who every town is...
you're more suspicious at this point than semioldguy, so...

Unvote:
Vote: Brandi

Scene 117: MonkeyMan576 commits OMGUS, take 2.

[StrangerCoug]

First you vote semioldguy for attacking you, then Brandi gets on your case and you switch your vote to her for a reason I can't figure out. Tell me those are townie things to be doing.

[StrangerCoug]

semioldguy is not scumhunting? *scoffs*

Also, you're misrepresenting Brandi. She asked for who you

THINK

is town, not who

DEFINITIVELY

is town. She wants your opinion, and you're not giving it to her.

[StrangerCoug]

semioldguy is not scumhunting? *scoffs*

Also, you're misrepresenting Brandi. She asked for who you

THINK

is town, not who

DEFINITIVELY

is town. She wants your opinion, and you're not giving it to her.

That's right, I think it's scummy to ask for someone's opinion on who is town. I don't want to help scum, so I'm not answering the question. Do you think all questions should be answered weather they are pro-town questions or not?

There are some that probably shouldn't be, but that does not give you the right to withhold your thoughts. Yes, if you're not careful with stating your town reads, you start painting NK targets. However, a scum group's agenda is to kill off people until they are the only ones around. If they kill somebody from another scum group, they're still a step closer to winning. Do you remember Mafia 91, where you were Sicilian Mafia and there was also a Japanese Mafia?

[StrangerCoug]

In my opinion, giving town reads is similar to claiming, and you don't want to give the mafia that kind of info unless you have to.

Please enlighten me on the first part of this sentence.

[StrangerCoug]

Will you stop being so darn secretive, MonkeyMan576!?

[StrangerCoug]

Quit twisting my words. I never said that attacking lurkers is scummy. You've made it sound like I have been lurking when I have not. It has been the weekend where most people normally have plans. I think your tactic of accusing people for having a life on their weekend is scummy. Now, if someone goes from last Weds until tomorrow or tonight for that matter without posting, then I consider that to be scummy.

Well, I think claiming you were busy when you were posting in other games is scummy. :shrug:

Coming from you, Mr. "I'm not gonna post in here because everyone's being mean to me, but I'll post in all the rest of my games just not this one because I'm throwing a temper tantrum" doesn't really fly.

So pretty much because I caught up on my other games first, you are trying to say that I'm scummy? How about not using outside the game influences? I've been here and I've been active. I think you are just bitter.

So which was it, were you busy IRL or busy catching up in games? Mock me all you want, but you're the one that's been caught in a lie.

Thanks for convincing me that you're throwing crap at Starbuck to see what sticks. Nowhere on MS.net is there a rule that says you can't catch up on games before or after being busy with things in real life. Granted, she can't go to, for example, a pool parlor and check on her games there unless said parlor has a computer she's allowed to use, but this is a ridiculous thing to be attacking for.

[StrangerCoug]

Can someone sum up the Monkey case for me?

Can that someone be semioldguy specifically.

Why, chamber?

[StrangerCoug]

Can you explain how he is not being anti-town?

I'm waiting on the semioldguy case. It may turn out that I find semioldguys case against monkey to be telling. Yours, however, is full of holes. Its not like I have a town read on monkey, I just think he's getting way too much flak for what I've seen him do up to this point.

So you're going to defend someone who had been anti-information by being anti-information yourself? Gotta love it. (You also don't explain how Starbuck's case is full of holes.)

FoS: chamber

Also,

FoS: Gorrad

for being too quiet for my liking.

[StrangerCoug]

I find Starbuck's and SC's cases on him horrible. They mainly just add up to "He's defending Monkey."

chamber does not have a good reason to be defending MonkeyMan576. It is impossible for him at this stage to be cop with an innocent on him, and there have been legitimate cases made against MonkeyMan576.

And SC's post right before mine is one of the biggest strawmans I've ever seen.

There are other things MonkeyMan576 is guilty of too, but I pointed that particular one out for ironic effect.

Mod: Please note sig.

[StrangerCoug]

I find Starbuck's and SC's cases on him horrible. They mainly just add up to "He's defending Monkey."

chamber does not have a good reason to be defending MonkeyMan576. It is impossible for him at this stage to be cop with an innocent on him, and there have been legitimate cases made against MonkeyMan576.

And SC's post right before mine is one of the biggest strawmans I've ever seen.

There are other things MonkeyMan576 is guilty of too, but I pointed that particular one out for ironic effect.

Mod: Please note sig.

You don't have any reason to be riding me so hard. So I posted the same reason as Starbuck and admitted to not reading that particular post. Then I left an argument because it was crap. That makes me scum?

You've also attacked Starbuck over something that's pretty much pointless (was she busy IRL, or was she playing catch-up?).

I don't give a darn about your RVS actions, but as for leaving an argument for it being crap, that's not how you handle such a situation. You explain why it is crap. If you're good at doing that, then the tide changes in your favor.

BUT NO.

You had to go cry in a corner. So that bit, yes, makes you scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I find Starbuck's and SC's cases on him horrible. They mainly just add up to "He's defending Monkey."

chamber does not have a good reason to be defending MonkeyMan576. It is impossible for him at this stage to be cop with an innocent on him, and there have been legitimate cases made against MonkeyMan576.

And SC's post right before mine is one of the biggest strawmans I've ever seen.

There are other things MonkeyMan576 is guilty of too, but I pointed that particular one out for ironic effect.

Mod: Please note sig.

You don't have any reason to be riding me so hard. So I posted the same reason as Starbuck and admitted to not reading that particular post. Then I left an argument because it was crap. That makes me scum?

You've also attacked Starbuck over something that's pretty much pointless (was she busy IRL, or was she playing catch-up?).

I don't give a darn about your RVS actions, but as for leaving an argument for it being crap, that's not how you handle such a situation. You explain why it is crap. If you're good at doing that, then the tide changes in your favor.

BUT NO.

You had to go cry in a corner. So that bit, yes, makes you scum.

Why should I, when people like you won't be persueded by reason?

Reason? What reason?

Please, for all our sakes, read the first game if you think my D1 lurking is suspect. It's generally what I do.

Lurking D1 is not something I do on purpose. It's not a "plan" or "strategy". It's a side-effect. The way I play is by waiting for someone to do something I don't like, then pouncing on them for it. So far, the only person who's done something I really haven't liked is Brandi.

I'd have called these posts together logical fail, but the fourth sentence of the second quote is keeping me from jumping. Wait and pounce... That seems to fit what you're doing.

So far, I don't see the case on Monkeyman as being better than my Brandi read. If what Semioldguy said is the only strikes against him, he's not worth lynching yet.

Please, for all our sakes, read the first game if you think my D1 lurking is suspect. It's generally what I do.

Scumtells are scumtells regardless of it's just what a player "does." No free passes for you.

This is 100% incorrect. Actions are independently(of person) pro or anti town but still dependent on setup. However a scumtell is something that indicates someone is scum. Therefore if its something someone does as either alignment then its not a scum tell.

Your best post so far in this game.

I don't give a darn about your RVS actions, but as for leaving an argument for it being crap, that's not how you handle such a situation. You explain why it is crap. If you're good at doing that, then the tide changes in your favor. BUT NO. You had to go cry in a corner. So that bit, yes, makes you scum.

I really don't like stuff like this, either. SC is basically saying, "This is what you should have done. You didn't do it. Thus, you are scum."

You're overgeneralizing my attack. There

ARE

things that are scummy if you don't do them. I think you're also focusing on the wrong part of my statement. That he got up and left is scummier to me than if he had merely ignored it.

[StrangerCoug]

Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.

While I think Crazy's attack on me is ill-founded, I am more inclined to believe that Crazy is misguided town than scum as of right now. He hasn't done anything else of note, and he said he needed to look at me again.

I have a slight gut town read on Brandi, Kmd4390 is pretty close to neutral, Gorrad's dislikable, chamber stands a good chance of being scum, and MonkeyMan576 is the scummiest player in the game. No reads on anybody else.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug
Why do you have such a strong town read on me?

Basically the solidity of your MonkeyMan576 case.

Right now I think the towniest player is Starbuck with her very sensible scumhunting, and semioldguy is a good candidate for second place.

Starbuck's scum-hunting isn't even remotely sensible. My scumdar screams at her nearly as much as it screams at Monkey.

I'll be back later; I got homework to do.

What's not sensible about my scumhunting?

You're attacking Monkey for his over-reaction and his appeal to emotion, mainly, which are two of the worst "scum-tells" ever.

Whether overreacting is a scumtell I'll leave up to debate, but appealing to

___(fill in the blank)___

, as far as I am aware, has never been pro-town. You're basically saying "But I'm this!" or "But this is going on!" to get people to listen to you. People will listen to scumhunting and common sense.

You also attack chamber merely for depending Monkey, although isn't it plausible he just disagrees with you?

Uhh... Starbuck has accused chamber of white knighting MonkeyMan576, which is more than merely defending him—he's defending him

FOR

him.

Have you been following the game at all to see the other reasons why I haven't moved my vote from Monkey? It's quite apparent that you have not.

I'm a little behind, and for the past day or two I've only been answering questions that have been asked of me.

And even if you added reasons later on, that still would be mostly irrelevant, since your original case on Monkey was stuffed full of crap.

FoS: Crazy

for this post being tantamount to chainsaw defending MonkeyMan576.

[StrangerCoug]

FoS: Crazy for this post being tantamount to chainsaw defending MonkeyMan576.

I'm voting Monkey. In my mind, they're about equal scumminess at this point. They're probably not

both

scum (unless if one's from another faction, or something), but I'm pretty sure one of them is. I agree with Starbuck that Monkey is scummy; I just don't agree on the reasons that he's scummy. Personally, I find Monkey's votes on Brandi and SOG scummier than anything Starbuck mentioned about him.

And I realized you said "tantamount," but I could pin the chainsaw defense thing on you regarding Starbuck.

What about Starbuck's reasoning do you disagree with?

As for my chainsaw defending Starbuck, I clearly think I've attacked MonkeyMan576 more than I've defended Starbuck, and the former predates the latter if I'm not mistaken.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: MonkeyMan576
Vote: chamber

See post #242 for my reasoning. I'm not lynching a claimed PR on Day 1.

[StrangerCoug]

Could somebody enlighten me on the Starbuck case with examples of her scummy posts please?

[StrangerCoug]

Could somebody enlighten me on the Starbuck case with examples of her scummy posts please?

I posted one on page 13 Post 318.

OK, I can make sense out of that.

Oh dammit, we need 7 to lynch not 5.

I'm retarded.

Paying attention does wonders.

Could the mafia be pixar characters? Hmmm...

It's too early to be speculating on what types of characters could be what alignment. Scumhunting is our best weapon right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Forgot something:

Mod: About to be out of my unofficial V/LA. The computer I was building to replace my dead one anyway is now operational, and I just need to get an OS on there.

(And a USB mouse, but I'll see what I can do without it.)

[StrangerCoug]

I think you both just did.

Quoted for truth. How else does Crazy know that Starbuck's claim is fake?

Unvote: chamber
Vote: Starbuck
Major HoS: Crazy

He's initially a bit of an antagonist (spelling?), so why not make him scum?

The spelling looks right to me, and Firefox isn't complaining that it's misspelled either.

[StrangerCoug]

If anything, I would think Buzz would NOT be a candidate for a vanilla.

Didn't I just tell Crazy it's too early to speculate on what name could be what role? We have absolutely nothing solid.

Saying Starbuck is scum is saying that she...

1. Claimed Vanilla as scum, which is a very risky gambit.

Faking vanilla is a very risky gambit? While the site meta is that claiming vanilla signs your death warrant if you're close to a lynch, I think there are

MUCH

more riskier roles to fakeclaim than that.

(This from the person who'd rather fake a power role than VT...)

[StrangerCoug]

Didn't I just tell Crazy it's too early to speculate on what name could be what role? We have absolutely nothing solid.

Have you looked at the roles from the last game, dude?

Bolt - Vanilla Townie
-Bolt is a TV superhero that believes he has powers but really doesn't.

Violet - Cop
-Violet has the power to turn invisible, which would make a very good cop.

Kenai - Jailkeeper
-A man that turned into a bear and who ends up taking care of a young bear cub.

Kronk - Vanilla Townie
-He appears strong, but he's pretty dumb, so he doesn't end up helping do anything in the film.

Diego - Vigilante
-Diego is totally a rebel, all the way.

Lightning McQueen - Bus Driver
-He is a car, and he drives pretty fast. XD

Stitch - Traitor
-He appears as a dog to Lilo, but all he really likes to do is cause destruction.

Remy - Weak Tracker
-Still don't quite get this, although Remy

is

a rat.

RJ - Theif
-One of the most obvious; he's a raccoon that's stealing a collection of food to ward off a hungry bear.

Po - Vanilla Townie
-Po is very incapable compared to the rest of the martial arts characters.

Dory - Vanilla Townie
-Has short-term memory loss and she never really initiated anything by herself.

Morph - Some kind of redirector or something
-I'm actually not familiar with Treasure Planet, but the character and role both involves morphing.

And all of this information helps me in this particular game how? I find it easier and more effective to scumhunt than to concentrate on claims and potentially get caught in a mod-WIFOM game. If you want to give me a lesson on Good Claims and Bad Claims 101, you can, but I'd rather it be in Mafia Discussion, and it's probably safest to do that when the game is over.

Morph was actually a framer in the last game, not a redirector.

StrangerCoug is becoming suspicious to me, and maybe you’ll just be one of those players who I always find suspicious, but I really don’t understand your strong town read on me earlier. No one else had a town read on me then, and if I’m being perfectly honest, I would have a somewhere in the neutral read on myself.

Perhaps I like thinking of everybody as innocent until proven guilty. I don't think I help anybody by trying to explain the subconscious, but people who make good cases look town to me.

And I'm not the towniest player around, hence why I call myself a village idiot.

StrangerCoug is becoming suspicious to me, and maybe you’ll just be one of those players who I always find suspicious, but I really don’t understand your strong town read on me earlier. No one else had a town read on me then, and if I’m being perfectly honest,

I would have a somewhere in the neutral read on myself.

Are you admitting to not playing pro-town?

This comes off a bit jumpy.

i agree with all of the star buck case and with that

Vote: Starbuck

Would you like to give your own input?

[StrangerCoug]

Wow Neopi, you could have at least posted some sort of assessment on the game so far? Why are you voting for starbuck other than you agree with the wagon? What points do you agree with? You do know that you put her at L-1?

I do notice that Neopi has only 6 posts on the entire site. Either he's really noob town or really noob scum... but seriously, is this your first mafia game Neopi?

Doing a search of his posts gives me a seventh one in Mish Mash, but that doesn't invalidate a very good point you made.

[StrangerCoug]

Perhaps I like thinking of everybody as innocent until proven guilty. I don't think I help anybody by trying to explain the subconscious, but people who make good cases look town to me.

And I'm not the towniest player around, hence why I call myself a village idiot.

This is an extremely scummy statement. Western law should not be a model applied to mafia. Mafia is about mob justice, not courtroom justice. No one is innocent until proven guilty, it is guilty until proven innocent. This just sounds like a ploy to muddy the waters.

And the "village idiot" stamtment is bogus too, I know SC to be intelligent. This just sounds like an attempt to explain future scummy behavior.

FOS: StrangerCoug

You are reading too much into my post. The "innocent until proven guilty" bit was a conjecture about my play, not a definitive statement about it. I play as I go and often pay very little attention to myself. If I notice something about my play, it is often well after the fact. I am not asking semioldguy to accept that I think that players are innocent until proven guilty à la court justice. If he knows my playstyle to be otherwise, then he knows my playstyle to be otherwise. That simple.

As for the village idiot statement, I am not questioning my own intelligence; I am questioning my own play. Of course I am intelligent. I used to be on the Academic Decathlon, have played awhile in a quiz bowl, and own a Jeopardy! board game that I've won a couple times. Mafia is by no means anything like AcaDec or trivia games. It doesn't matter who ruled France when; if you can't make convincing statements and closely monitor your play, you will not be a good Mafia player.

[StrangerCoug]

And all of this information helps me in this particular game how? I find it easier and more effective to scumhunt than to concentrate on claims and potentially get caught in a mod-WIFOM game. If you want to give me a lesson on Good Claims and Bad Claims 101, you can, but I'd rather it be in Mafia Discussion, and it's probably safest to do that when the game is over.

Scum-hunting is used mainly to determine who we want to claim. The claim will result in a lynch (if the claim sucks), a refusal to lynch (if the claim is good), or more scum-hunting (if it's neither). If we're going to pick "more scum-hunting" every time, regardless of what the claim is, then there's really no point in claiming.

OK, I can see where you are coming from here.

[StrangerCoug]

FOS:brandi, kmd
for voting gorrad for not rving

This rubs me the wrong way. Granted, I don't think Gorrad not random voting warrants a vote, but you could be more productive with that FoS.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: Starbuck

Neopi, you need to come to your senses ASAP. Stop playing the newbie card.

[StrangerCoug]

I take it you don't want to be ninja'd, do you, mod?

[StrangerCoug]

If the classic/non-classic argument is not a waste of time, then I'm siding with Starbuck's #512. There's really different definitions of a "classic". Granted, something out for only a month or so isn't likely to be considered so, but where do we put the benchmark? I figured where LlamaFluff put the benchmark to be between when the movies were traditionally animated and when Disney's using CGI, but if MonkeyMan576 is right, then I am wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

I find it a little disturbing that Starbuck is overreacting so much to everything I do(my RVS vote reason being the same, my classics idea). I've never played in a game where she was scum, so I can't say if it's a scum tell or not, but usually overreacting is a scum tell. Townies know if they are lynched it doesn't hurt their team as much as a scum being lynched hurts theirs, especially since Starbuck is claiming vanilla.

I don't think overreaction is as reliable a scumtell as you think. It's something that should be looked at, yes, but I don't know if it's a good idea to automatically label it scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Neopi

Post, damn it!

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Did you just modkill Kmd4390?

kmd was not modkilled

[StrangerCoug]

The kill method was 'erased', not 'modkilled'. We have a daykiller, though it's pointless to try and find them as we can't divine if they're vig or SK.

I'm less concerned about the identity of any day killer and more concerned about making sense of what happened at this point.

Vote: Neopi

again, by the way.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCougar's post asking the mod if Kmd had been modkilled looks suspicious to me because it seems apparent that if LlamaFluff had modkilled a player, he would have said so explicitly, and StrangerCougar is an experienced enough player to know that. His post looks like he's trying to distance himself from the daykill by pretending he didn't know what it was. FoS: StrangerCougar

Most mods do do that, but there are a few here and there that do something different. If a modkill took place, then we do not need to look for the killer as we technically already know who it is. If we're dealing with a day SK, then that's someone that we should get rid of ASAP. If we're dealing with a day vig, then we don't need to know who it is. I don't see what's wrong with narrowing down the possibilities, even if the answer I'm likely to get for "did this happen?" is no.

The mod confirmed by editing my last post is that Kmd4390 did not get modkilled and I don't see him as enough of a bastard mod to include a day SK, so I think we have a day vig somewhere.

[StrangerCoug]

I should add that I thought the kill could have happened because Kmd4390 was talking too much about his role. I'm not invalidating it as the reasoning behind it, but as I said above we know he was not modkilled for that.

[StrangerCoug]

I should add that I thought the kill could have happened because Kmd4390 was talking too much about his role. I'm not invalidating it as the reasoning behind it, but as I said above we know he was not modkilled for that.

I don't understand your logic here. It's like your saying:

A. Kmd talked about his role.
B. Kmd was killed.

Thus, A caused B? How? It sounds like you're making up some random reason just so people don't talk about their roles.

I'm not saying that A definitively caused B. I'm saying that A could have caused B, but we now know regardless that it can't have been because of the mod's doing.

I should add that I thought the kill could have happened because Kmd4390 was talking too much about his role.

Except that he really didn't say anything about his role. All he said was that his movie was post 1980 and had a classic feel to it. Hardly seems like a reason to be killed.

Regards,
Jazz

This makes sense now.

[StrangerCoug]

Exactly. StrangerCougar is saying that a daykiller killed Kmd because Kmd mentioned that his movie was post-1980, and that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Regards,
Jazz

I hate being generalized. I only said "this is possible". I never said "this is the only way this could have happened".

I should add that I thought the kill could have happened because Kmd4390 was talking too much about his role.

Except that he really didn't say anything about his role. All he said was that his movie was post 1980 and had a classic feel to it. Hardly seems like a reason to be killed.

Regards,
Jazz

This makes sense now.

The "This makes sense now" is supposed to imply that I've decided to drop that line of pursuit.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn you, guys, you post a lot when I'm at work...

The "This makes sense now" is supposed to imply that I've decided to drop that line of pursuit.

If that is what your post was "supposed to imply," why didn't you just come out and say what you meant?

Because I thought I was being clear. Apparently, that's not true either.

SC almost seems TOO town. Long writing, explanations, defenses. Its not scummy, just struck me as weird.

At the risk of being construed as incriminating myself (and I'm not concerned about the pressure on me), please be careful with statements like this.

The mod confirmed by editing my last post is that Kmd4390 did not get modkilled and I don't see him as enough of a bastard mod to include a day SK, so I think we have a day vig somewhere.

o_0 What a weird thing to say. Why is a day SK bastardly? You said you didn't want a mod-WIFOM game, but I don't see why a day SK is bastardly at all.

The day SK being bastardly is basically my perception of things in general. Perhaps I pre-inned for what, by my definition, is a bastard game without knowing it. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me here; people have differing definitions of bastard modding (e.g. I don't consider a bomb to be a bastard role unless it's a normal).

I really don't care what scum think. I'm not in a position vote-wise to have to claim anything.

my scumdar is pinging

Care to explain, Mr. Quiet?

[StrangerCoug]

Neopi, what are your opinions on everybody?

[StrangerCoug]

im not sure yet i will reread soon

You should have done that while waiting for your role PM if you absolutely can't do it before requesting to replace in. I don't care if you don't read meticulously and only make mental notes on the important points, and I don't care if you end up doing it in more than one session. Not having a clue before actually partaking in the game at this stage is like diving in a pool not knowing how deep the water is.

[StrangerCoug]

MonkeyMan576 is starting to get questionable again, yes, but right now Neopi is leaving us in the dark. I like that lynch better than MM right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Hypothesizing game makeup on this site is liable to get you modkilled.

Point me to a game where this has happened if you don't want me to believe you're posting this as a scare tactic.

[StrangerCoug]

Hypothesizing game makeup on this site is liable to get you modkilled.

Point me to a game where this has happened if you don't want me to believe you're posting this as a scare tactic.

You've posted several times without responding to this, so true to my threat, I believe you're trying to employ scare tactics to limit what MonkeyMan576 can talk about. I'm unhappy with the lynch right now.

Satisfied as soon as you tell me why it was a pro-town thing to withhold that information.

Because I think it was scum that was mostly trying to get it.

Why?

Because Starbuck and Semioldguy are at the top of my scum list.

This reeks a bit OMGUSy. Starbuck's down at, like... my #3 or #4 suspect, certainly not my top pic, and I don't see the case on semioldguy.

Satisfied as soon as you tell me why it was a pro-town thing to withhold that information.

Because I think it was scum that was mostly trying to get it.

Why?

Because Starbuck and Semioldguy are at the top of my scum list.

And it would benefit them how?

So they could determine if I was fakeclaiming or not. If they thought I was fakeclaiming(as a SK or something), they might be less likely to kill me right away.

If I'm not mistaken, more often than not scum believes claims from anybody else from true, and the only roles that would really hurt them to is bomb or vig faking something else.

[StrangerCoug]

If you tell people your whole strategy then it's not a strategy.

This does not make sense.

Some of us may want to share our strategies more or less than others.

This contradicts the above.

Mod: Please prod Neopi.

[StrangerCoug]

well


i can officially as a pre death


i should of started in newbie land

Would you like to claim? You're at L-1, you know...

[StrangerCoug]

I personally think Neopi is a tad overpowered, but I'll move off if he stops drifting.

[StrangerCoug]

This is why I really don't like going into the whole flavor debate because it detracts from hunting scum. Now people are just looking for well who's flavor makes the least sense.

go play normals.

Unvote: Neopi

and

vote: chamber

just for this. Why are you essentially telling Starbuck to shut up?

[StrangerCoug]

It's still rude and telling Starbuck to take her business elsewhere. Yes, I remember what you said to me, and I'm taking that into account. I still find it easier to focus on the tells that work well in normals.

[StrangerCoug]

To quote Starbuck:

Wow,

Monkey

StrangerCoug. You seem to be getting worked up over something so small.

Honestly, that was a very sneaky way to get off of the Neopi wagon and back onto the chamber wagon.

And I don't really care about any resulting suspicion. If chamber did not mean the post to be antagonistic, he will explain its intent himself. Other people need not speak on his behalf.

In other news, semioldguy is about ready to sell me on MonkeyMan576.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, here's where I'm standing at deadline:

My vote on chamber is helping nobody in any manner at this point and I don't want the day to end with the votes tied, so I'll

unvote

him with the warning that he needs to watch what he says.

I think Neopi's big problems are his claim (a tad overpowered, as I said) and his activity (needs to be picked up). I know I'm not the kind of person that gives newbies leniency, and he's still a big suspect of mine, but I have a bigger fish to fry:

MonkeyMan576. Where do I start? He's gone off and cried in a corner when under suspicion early in the day, I agree that he had little if any reason to hold off his flavor, and his cases on Starbuck and semioldguy don't make much sense. Everything else I can think of is something semioldguy just said.

Vote: MonkeyMan576

[StrangerCoug]

Considering Neopi flipped scum, I'm finding SC's switch from Neopi to chamber to Monkey very scummy.

Unvote
Vote StrangerCoug

Going from Neopi to chamber I regret doing as I ended up engaging myself in an exercise in futility, but it's a tad weird to me that you mention going my going off chamber to vote MonkeyMan576. For me to stay on chamber and nobody else to switch would have resulted in a no lynch. And yes, MonkeyMan576 was suspicious. So was Neopi, but I am not a double voter.

[StrangerCoug]

Considering Neopi flipped scum, I'm finding SC's switch from Neopi to chamber to Monkey very scummy.

Unvote
Vote StrangerCoug

Going from Neopi to chamber I regret doing as I ended up engaging myself in an exercise in futility, but it's a tad weird to me that you mention going my going off chamber to vote MonkeyMan576. For me to stay on chamber and nobody else to switch would have resulted in a no lynch. And yes, MonkeyMan576 was suspicious. So was Neopi, but I am not a double voter.

Well, a switch from a scum wagon to a town wagon always is scummy, but having chamber as a median point makes it more suspicious to me because it makes it look less obvious.

Less obvious my butt, given what I got for voting chamber for the reasoning I did.

Considering Neopi flipped scum, I'm finding SC's switch from Neopi to chamber to Monkey very scummy.

Unvote
Vote StrangerCoug

Going from Neopi to chamber I regret doing as I ended up engaging myself in an exercise in futility, but it's a tad weird to me that you mention going my going off chamber to vote MonkeyMan576. For me to stay on chamber and nobody else to switch would have resulted in a no lynch. And yes, MonkeyMan576 was suspicious. So was Neopi, but I am not a double voter.

Why, after voting Neopi, would you choose to lynch MM instead? You voted Neopi for a reason, then chose to lynch MM at the last second? would you like to explain?

You say that like I got up and voted him just to make him the deadline lynch. I was one of the people yelling at him for getting up and leaving thinking the world revolved around him early in Day 1. Look back if you don't believe me. His cases on Starbuck and semioldguy were also nonsense. Neopi's only problems with me were his activity and claim.

[StrangerCoug]

Still, I have to think SC is scum for getting of the Neopi wagon for such a ridiculous reason.

I didn't interpret chamber's post as very polite and pro-town, as we all should know by now. He wasn't the scummiest player, but another way to express disapproval didn't come to mind. Lynch me if I know why he was killed last night.

With all my big Day 1 suspects dead, I need to probe a little more, and I'm looking most at YankCane right now for misrepresenting what was essentially my hammer vote.

[StrangerCoug]

With all my big Day 1 suspects dead, I need to probe a little more, and I'm looking most at YankCane right now for misrepresenting what was essentially my hammer vote.

What was the misrepresentation?

YankCane implied that I just threw my vote on MonkeyMan576 to move us along when I had posted a case on him to go with the vote.

Also, does this mean that you concede that Crazy was correct in pointing out that your stated reason for jumping from Neopi's wagon to chamber before jumping back onto Monkey's wagon was ridiculous? Because it sure seems like it now that I go back and read it again. You said that you voted chamber solely because he said, "go play normals" to Starbuck. Crazy's right - that's ridiculous.

It got me nowhere, so yes, I concede that.

[StrangerCoug]

Now you are focusing on SC, where you really didn't talk about him much before.

I looked after reading this, and post #935 is the first time Gorrad mentions me by name (though not the first he addresses me). Some input of his own rather than just "I agree" would help him in his case against me.

[StrangerCoug]

Brandi, who are you suspicious of?

SC/Gorrad/anyone else on the Starbuck wagon - What happened to me and Starbuck obviously being scum together? Obviously I never approved of the wagon, but I'm curious to why it dissipated.

Bigger fish to fry is why I personally stopped pursuing it, and right now Starbucks vs. Brandi reeks to me of a... what's a clean way to put it? Basically, I'm getting nothing useful out of it--they might as well be arguing with each other for the sake of arguing with each other.

[StrangerCoug]

I actually made a case on Brandi, and the fact that you didn't see this rather irks me.

"I'm getting nothing from your argument with Brandi" =/= "Your case on Brandi does not exist." It simply hasn't sunken in to me yet.

[StrangerCoug]

Brandi, who are you suspicious of?

SC/Gorrad/anyone else on the Starbuck wagon - What happened to me and Starbuck obviously being scum together? Obviously I never approved of the wagon, but I'm curious to why it dissipated.

Bigger fish to fry is why I personally stopped pursuing it, and right now Starbucks vs. Brandi reeks to me of a... what's a clean way to put it? Basically, I'm getting nothing useful out of it--they might as well be arguing with each other for the sake of arguing with each other.

You unvoted Starbuck with no revote.

You voted for Neopi about a day after that for his alleged lurking.

If you had "bigger fish to fry," why was your unvote off the Starbuck wagon not accompanied by a revote?

Neopi was starting to be scummier than Starbuck and I felt he was a little more deserving of my attention. The unvote of Starbuck you speak of also contains a warning toward Neopi and an accusation of the newbie card.

[StrangerCoug]

I actually made a case on Brandi, and the fact that you didn't see this rather irks me.

"I'm getting nothing from your argument with Brandi" =/= "Your case on Brandi does not exist." It simply hasn't sunken in to me yet.

It has now.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and

Mod: Activity may go down today due to Windows 7 installation as I don't get on from work.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Gorrad

I love how none of his recent posts have been of much use.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll abstain from posting until everyone returns.

Is there really a good reason to do this?

HoS: YankCane151

[StrangerCoug]

Hello?

[StrangerCoug]

No use just sitting there, so I'm going to ask everybody some questions: Of those not really participating much, who do you think is scummiest? Is it related to the activity level? If not, why?

[StrangerCoug]

Forgot something that might help me at this point:

Mod: Please prod everybody that hasn't posted this weekend.

[StrangerCoug]

Gorrad, Brandi and Jazzmyn are on V/LA due to sickness or otherwise.
semioldguy has an outstanding prod
All other players have posted within the last 48 hours

*shoots self out of impatience*

Jazzmyn, do you have a response to #989

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I swore I voted Gorrad a little while ago.

So you did... so you did...

No use just sitting there, so I'm going to ask everybody some questions: Of those not really participating much, who do you think is scummiest? Is it related to the activity level? If not, why?

I feel ignored at my attempt to generate discussion.

[StrangerCoug]

No use just sitting there, so I'm going to ask everybody some questions: Of those not really participating much, who do you think is scummiest? Is it related to the activity level? If not, why?

I feel ignored at my attempt to generate discussion.

My vote should speak for my suspicions. I recommend others do the same. My reasoning given so far should indicate that it isn't because of activity level, but rather a gauge on interaction/content (or lack thereof).

Your vote does looks like it answers my question. Thanks for bringing that up.

[StrangerCoug]

And, SC, why ask only about those who are not among the most active? Scum is found among the most active just as often as among the least active, at least in my experience.

Regards,
Jazz

It got to the point where the active players were in the minority in my mindset and I wanted to gauge if anybody was suspicious for their activity level. I don't like Gorrad right now and he was among those inactive.

[StrangerCoug]

@Starbuck
Why does voting without providing a full case when I vote deserve an FoS? Why do you find this suspicious?

Because scum don't provide full cases. They just vote because they really don't care who dies, as long as it isn't them.

There are plenty of good reasons for town to vote without providing cases. That doesn't make those votes automatically scummy.

You should add that there have always been times that scum have posted a full case on somebody. They can't just pick people out of the blue if they want to win.

[StrangerCoug]

It got to the point where the active players were in the minority in my mindset and I wanted to gauge if anybody was suspicious for their activity level. I don't like Gorrad right now and he was among those inactive.

Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't think that Gorrad is scum and, as I said previously, scum is just as often found among the most active players as among the least active players so I'm not convinced that this was a valid reason for you to sow suspicion

solely

upon the less active players while ignoring the more active players, who are just as likely to be scum.

Where did I discount the possibility that there are scum in the active players?

[StrangerCoug]

*takes a nap*

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Do we have a deadline? If I were modding this game, I'd throw one at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

What's the case on YankCane?

My bit (not much, though)

Does anyone have any questions about my case on Brandi?

Not right now. I might later.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, I wasn't meaning you since you have been here all along.

I'm talking about everyone else who doesn't seem to want to do anything.

You, me, and LlamaFluff seem to be the only people that give a damn about the game at this point xD

[StrangerCoug]

@Mod
Do you know how long Jazzmyn will be V/LA for or are you able to reveal that to the rest of us?

Well, my top two suspects were more flaky than myself to the point they are or have been replaced, and I don't seem to have missed much.

@Starbuck
My case/vote on YankCane was largely put there as pressure for him to take a stand and actually do something. He is gone now so pressure him as a player doesn't work so well.

I am beginning to re-evaluate my read on Jazzmyn. She has been doing some fence sitting on players today and hasn't really taken a stand on an existing case or made much of a case of her own. If Starbuck is her top suspect why doesn't she accompany that with a vote or pursue more of a case on Starbuck? She has promised a case on Starbuck, but has delayed that promise. I don't like when players say they are going to make a case on someone, they should just do it rather than say they are going to. I find doing this slightly scummy.

I've felt a tinge of misrepresentation in some of her posts as well. Most recently in 1021 it seems as though Jazzmyn is jumping to the conclusion that StarngerCoug suspected Gorrad solely on activity level, when the quote from StarngerCoug in that post to me suggests that StrangerCoug was suspicious of Gorrad who just also happened to be recently inactive.

@StarngerCoug
What do you think of the above?

Smart-alecky answer: That you misspelled my name three times out of four.

Serious answer: Come to think of it, I don't remember Jazzmyn posting much of use lately. She has misrepresented me in the way you explain: I was merely looking for a correlation between activity and perceived scumminess. I was and remain fully aware that scum could have been actively posting in thread at the time. Gorrad wanted to just latch on my weak case and the thread had yet to have the major activity problem from which we're now trying to recover.

[StrangerCoug]

#1024 is waiting for you, Jazzmyn.

[StrangerCoug]

sweet christ...40 pages....hmmmm, dont know when I can get to it...

this is what I would like from everyone...

if you are voting, a quick line or two why you are voting who you are voting...feel free to link me or repost your case.

if you are not voting, a quick line why you are not voting.

if you dont want to do this, explain why you dont and why you think that it is a protown move.

Voilà. This is important too.

[StrangerCoug]

Do you suspect anybody else, semioldguy?

[StrangerCoug]

It got to the point where the active players were in the minority in my mindset and I wanted to gauge if anybody was suspicious for their activity level. I don't like Gorrad right now and he was among those inactive.

Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't think that Gorrad is scum and, as I said previously, scum is just as often found among the most active players as among the least active players so I'm not convinced that this was a valid reason for you to sow suspicion

solely

upon the less active players while ignoring the more active players, who are just as likely to be scum.

Where did I discount the possibility that there are scum in the active players?

I never said that you discounted the possibility that there is scum among the active players, StrangerCougar. Strawman argument duly noted, though.

My question was why were you sowing suspicion

solely

upon the less active players even though scum is just as likely to be found among the most active players?

Regards,
Jazz

I'm having a hard time comprehending your both attacking me for directing suspicion solely on the inactives and agreeing with my implication that I know there could be scum in the actives. Anyone paying attention knows that this game slowed down a lot, and I want to put money down on at least one of the inactives being scum. Two scum in the inactives is a possibility, but one I can't easily support right now.

Safe claim provided by LlamaFluff, the GM, perhaps?

(Just thinking out loud).

Regards,
Jazz

Since when is a safeclaim any more than a character name or something? "Buzz Lightyear" might be a safeclaim, but "Buzz Lightyear - Vanilla Townie" wouldn't be one.

Since some mod decided to give the scum fake role PMs to use. I've gotten such a fake in my first mini theme.

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug

- Ends up looking scummiest due to the fact that he added the hammering vote. He already answered somewhat for it, but being that all three choices had made a role claim and there's this quote from earlier in the game..

Unvote: MonkeyMan576
Vote: chamber

See post #242 for my reasoning. I'm not lynching a claimed PR on Day 1.

In your "hammering" post you put your choices down to between Neopi and MonkeyMan576 and I know that you were pretty consistently suspicious of both of them... But you had also voted for Starbuck for a period of time after the Crazy "fakeclaim" slip so she wasn't exactly on your list of townies either. Why the backtrack on your Day 1 PR lynching policy?

Because I started believing the claim less and less and MonkeyMan576 was acting so scummy that I figured my best option was to reconsider what I had said. I lost Mini 825 for believing a jailkeeper fake claim to the point I barely questioned it. (I'd have to check the day the claim was, though.)

[StrangerCoug]

I know, especially since hammering a claimed PR is, by definition, questioning the claim. What else needs explanation?

[StrangerCoug]

I think I get where you're coming from.

[StrangerCoug]

Since some mod decided to give the scum fake role PMs to use. I've gotten such a fake in my first mini theme.

Interesting. How likely do you consider that possibility?

I can't base an answer on evidence from the thread, but if I can base it on when I've been scum in theme games, the odds are pretty low since the fake I mention is the only one I remember getting.

Because I started believing the claim less and less and MonkeyMan576 was acting so scummy that I figured my best option was to reconsider what I had said. I lost Mini 825 for believing a jailkeeper fake claim to the point I barely questioned it. (I'd have to check the day the claim was, though.)

Was it more that you didn't believe his claim or that he was just so scummy?

The scumminess kicked in more.

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah, I agree. I just wanted to see if SC would push for the possibility that he mentioned.

I was merely answering a question you asked. I have more reason to believe you asked Jazzmyn specifically than me specifically, but that was a question any experienced player could answer. For me to seriously suggest that LlamaFluff changed the way he does scum PMs, I'd have to have gotten one in this game, and I haven't.

[StrangerCoug]

Where is Gorrad?

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I anticipate a very hectic next couple of days with Thanksgiving business.

[StrangerCoug]

BAH!

[StrangerCoug]

Damn. Both people who killed me thought I was SK. I was hoping to be able to use my ability.