Mini 858 - Dexter Season One (Game Over)

[Locke Lamora]

Charter: can you not tell us specifically what your restriction is?

Budja: do you have a previous game where you were a miller?

No RVS bandwagons here, please. For anyone who hasn't seen it, read rule DEX-3.

[Locke Lamora]

Why would Masuka have a short post restriction?

Chamber: so you'd be quite happy if Budja was dead so that you didn't have to deal with the miller possibility, regardless of what else his role does?

[Locke Lamora]

If he was making off-colour jokes in every post I'd see it as a more appropriate post restriction. I just don't associate terseness with Masuka in particular.

[Locke Lamora]

It's not implausible, I can see it from the perspective of him being a minor character in S1 and reeling off one-liners without doing much else. I wanted to get the flavour behind it, which I now see charter confirmed as being Sotty's reasoning.

[Locke Lamora]

Although it is something I am keeping my eye on at the moment Artem, how blatant chamber is going about it does not strike me as something scum would do.

Sotty asking for a name claim, before we saw that the possibility of roles being tied to characters, seemed more like a scum move to me.

Sotty's request is more pro-town than chamber's. Chamber is just straight-up trying to get Budja to reveal the extent of his abilities. Sotty simply wanted to assess the miller claim in comparison with the name claim. How is asking for a name claim, which might give clues about abilities, more scummy than blatantly trying to find out how useful Budja's role is?

Putting a number on things seems difficult. It's fairly obvious votes are weighted differently - e.g., some people votes could be meaningless while others carry a huge force.

This. I don't think everyone has the same voting powers in this game. As for chamber's suggestion, I don't see how we can come up with a safe point to stop voting when we have no idea what the pre-condition for arrest is; it doesn't even specify that it's simply going to be an L-X deal. I think we should avoid getting too deep into discussions about voting and just play as normal with the awareness that votes could be more significant than normal.

[Locke Lamora]

I think Neil Perry fits with miller. What's the specific flavour reasoning behind that in the PM? I can guess, but I'd like to hear it from you.

Sotty, Chamber: what do you think of that name claim?

[Locke Lamora]

His name claim doesn't do anything for me but it's not damning either. I'd still prefer role info, at the end of the day names are only what the mod wanted to make them.

Aren't roles only what the mod wanted to make them? I don't really get where you're going with this, or why full role info is going to help town more than scum.

Don: what do you think of Konowa?

Almaster: what's your thinking behind 'further in the investigation'? Do you think lynches are going to depend on more than just L-X?

[Locke Lamora]

So Budja's name claim doesn't make him any more believable but knowing what else he can do would? Why?

[Locke Lamora]

Ok, how about we come at it from this angle: it's already clear that characters affect abilities, from the justification for charter's post restriction. In my opinion, Neil Perry makes sense as a miller. Now, if you're unsure about Budja's miller claim, does him claiming Neil Perry make you think he's more likely to be telling the truth, less likely to be telling the truth or have absolutely no impact on your thinking whatsoever? If it's the third, as I'm getting the impression it is, why does a perfectly compatible name claim not affect your opinion of the claim at all?

[Locke Lamora]

I assume you have some previous game experience with a miller that made you want Budja dead as soon as he claimed.

[Locke Lamora]

Do you have any specific meta that influences your attitude towards millers?

[Locke Lamora]

Chamber: do you have any thoughts on other players? What do you think of DDD right now? Also, answering Budja's question would be good.

Charter: I know you have to be brief, so who are your top three suspects?

I don't like Jebus' disappearing act. I want to hear a lot more from him now or I call active lurking.

[Locke Lamora]

DDD: if Chamber's using the same phrasing and argumentation that you have personally, does that make you think that he's more likely to be pro-town? Do you agree with the substance of his arguments?

SocioPath: do you think Budja's 'ineptitude' is scummy?

I think the 'what advantage do I gain as scum' line of questioning is pretty WIFOM-y, both in the questions and answers. The advantage may be nothing more than offering contributions and appearing pro-town. The question in itself makes the assumption that scum always does things that are aimed at gaining a specific advantage for the scumteam. Almaster's answers are plausible but again operate under the same assumption. Chamber is using WIFOM questions to make Almaster's attack look weak and Almaster is reaching to justify his original vote, which was made on the basis that Chamber was still fishing and that he put forward a bad proxy-voting idea. I'm liking Almaster a lot less after that justification but the fact that Chamber doesn't even have any specific meta that influences his opinion on millers makes me seriously doubt his motives in wanting Budja dead.

Charter: so you think Konowa is more likely to be scum than Chamber?

[Locke Lamora]

SocioPath: have you never asked someone questions about their reasoning in a situation where you think you know what that reasoning is?

I'm confused as to what was so bad about my answer.

The backtracking comment pretty much made it a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario. If Chamber had backtracked, you've had said he was scummy. He didn't backtrack, so your response was that he was scummy for avoiding doing something that would have looked scummy.

I've already pointed out why I thought your answer was bad and WIFOM-y. Arguably you answered in that way because of the question that was posed, but I think you were reaching with those reasons and that indicates a desire to paint Chamber in as scummy a light as possible rather than simply pointing out that the question was WIFOM. You also haven't answered Chamber's questions in response to yours or addressed my opinion of your answer. Why do you think your answer was good?

Sotty: I assume you're referring to Konowa's line of attack against you taking place in the context of charter already having name claimed?

[Locke Lamora]

Vote: Jebus

for still contributing nothing. Maybe a little pressure will encourage a meaningful post.

Konowa: you still haven't explained how directly asking about abilities is less scummy than asking for a nameclaim.

Chamber: do you have an actual read on Almaster? 'Confused' doesn't constitute one. What confused you in his meta?

Still waiting for Almaster to respond.

[Locke Lamora]

DJ: not liking this depressed attitude. Is there anyone you think is voteworthy? Anything more than 'kind of scummy'? Are you just too depressed to scumhunt?

Konowa: you think Chamber's too scummy to be scum with his rolefishing but you think his unwillingness to expand on his reads is scummy, so that combines for a neutral read?

Chamber: why are you defending Jebus? Yes, he did say he would be posting at the weekend. However, it's not the first time he's said something like that in this game and thus far, we have nothing of substance from him. Considering we're ten pages in, I really don't like that. Also, is a 'muddled' scumdar basically a way of saying you don't have any good reads on anyone?

Charter: what do you think of DDD providing 'trend analysis' as a reason for suspicion?

Still waiting for Almaster.

[Locke Lamora]

I would also like to know why Chamber thinks I need to die, but as he apparently doesn't provide reasons for votes I doubt anything will be said.

I don't think Don's scummy for asking for the claim, given that we don't know where L-1 is. I'm unconvinced by the reasoning for his scumlist, though.

Don: what about Almaster was giving you a town read? Why do you think Konowa's hop onto your wagon was more pro-town than Budja's?

[Locke Lamora]

Budja: Don was actually much scummier than this in the previous game I've played with him (Mini 819) and he was town there too. Granted, his avenger role did lend itself to projecting a certain level of scumminess but I thought he was particularly anti-town in that game. I'm not going to go to the level of DDD's 'obvtown', but I really don't think he's been that bad.

Almaster: I see I missed your question before. It's simple, really. I'd have told him it was WIFOM. I don't see how you can answer it beyond that without giving WIFOM answers yourself.

After yet another post that contributed nothing, I'd really like a Jebus lynch. I'm suspicious of the Konowa/DJ relationship after Konowa's hop onto that wagon and DJ's response to it.

Mod: will be V/LA until Monday.

[Locke Lamora]

unvote; Vote: Chamber

'Nothing new to discuss'? You didn't discuss anything when you voted for me either. You've given one line of opinion about Don and kept quiet. I imagine what people are looking for is some scumhunting. If you think I should be lynched, then get on with making a case instead of sitting there doing nothing.

[Locke Lamora]

Chamber is as pointless as ever but he's not going to get lynched today. Konowa's Jebus vote is terrible and he's been using bad/WIFOM reasoning to make his points since the game started. I still don't like Jebus' epic lurking for much of this game but he has been contributing more and I'm happy with a Konowa lynch at this stage.

Unvote; Vote: Konowa

[Locke Lamora]

Chamber: am I right to suspect that you're just going to keep calling for my lynch without even offering a shred of a case?

[Locke Lamora]

Right, so if someone else somehow presents themselves as a better lynch, you'll start tunnelling on them without a case instead.

[Locke Lamora]

Ok, just thought I'd clarify. I'd love a Chamber lynch, for obvious reasons. I'm still dubious of Jebus for his prolonged period of posting zero content yesterday. I'm also suspicious of SocioPath; he mentioned Konowa being scummy and high on his list several times without actually talking about him a great deal other than one early point about Konowa's 'forced' post.

[Locke Lamora]

SP: I agree with that point but I still find it strange that you really didn't talk about Konowa a whole lot after that except to say that you'd support his lynch or that he was high on your scumlist. Beyond that early point, there wasn't much analysis of his play, as far as I can see. Lack of analysis or a vote but repeated statements saying you find Konowa scummy suggest distancing to me.

Sotty: I want a Chamber lynch because his play, particularly since he decided to vote for me, basically consists of him insisting I be lynched without any scumhunting, either against myself or other players. Given that approach to the game, I'm finding it hard to think of a reason why Chamber shouldn't be lynched.

[Locke Lamora]

On the subject of Almaster:, I'm curious as to how he goes from this at the start of the game:

4) I don't get what people don't like about Konowa.

To this:

lmaster tops my scumlist right now. To me it looks like he had already decided that chamber was scum and was just looking for a reason to justify his vote. The fact that the justification came after the vote with a "you are scum for doing A, but you would have been scum for doing B" looks really reaching and weak.

This is a dumb. Your awful attempt at starting a counter-bandwagon is noted.

With no mention of Konowa in-between but Konowa at the top of his scumlist in this post. Note that this also comes right after Charter has voted Konowa following his suggestion to consolidate on him. Problem is, I don't see Chamber and Almaster as being scum together, given Almaster's early attack and vote on Chamber.

[Locke Lamora]

As I think you're both scummy, it is. I need to decide which one of you is more likely to be Konowa's buddy.

[Locke Lamora]

Yep, I don't really see a change in Chamber's play coming at all.

Vote: Chamber

I'm going to be away from home until Thursday night so I won't be on much until then. If Chamber can change his attitude and contribute something else other than 'lynch Locke', that'd be really helpful. Jebus also needs to be out of here if he doesn't start making substantial contributions fast.

[Locke Lamora]

I'm voting for you because I believe your playstyle actions basically consist of you stalling until you get a lynch on me and occasionally defending yourself when required. That's not pro-town.

[Locke Lamora]

Good game everyone, town played well. Not my best effort; in hindsight I probably should have focused on making Jebus look innocent than trying to guess who would be investigated. If I'd targeted him N1 things might have turned out very differently. Konowa's lynch hurt us a lot and after that the night actions just went badly for us.

Chamber: I'm interested; why did you think I was scum after you read my meta? Obviously you might not want to share that but I'd like to know if you don't mind telling.

Thanks to Juls for modding, I really liked the flavour and I thought it was a cool set-up.