Mini 858 - Dexter Season One (Game Over)

[chamber]

Vote charter

[chamber]

Nope.

Do you have any abilities besides being a miller? If you do and it makes you a tasty target for the mafia at least we get this miller nonsence out of the way.

[chamber]

Role-fish much?
Thats a horribly scummy post.

vote chamber

No RVS bandwagons here, please.

I think we are probably ok as long as we don't push anyone up to a near lynch unless we actually want a lynch.

I dont really think role fishing applys to millers, in fact I'd be pretty happy if your role was good enough to put a target on you head despite the fact that you are a claimed miller. Short of that though I don't think you are going to die at night so I'd like the info to help me figure out your alignment.

[chamber]

Well I think role-fishing applies to everyone.
By claiming miller, the only real difference in my role that affects you is that I cannot be cop investigated. How many people's alignments do you discover that way? One or two a game.
If you want to figure out my alignment, scum-hunt in the usual way and don't rely on me giving you role-based information. I'm not saying anything.

Explain to me why role fishing is bad? In my opinion its bad because either A a power role is outed and killed, or B a vanilla is outed and the mafia can focus elsewhere in their hunt for power.

Now given your claim I see the following possibilities:

Mafia: No harm to town in you being forced to claim early.

Vanilla: Given that you are a claimed miller its unlikely you were getting nked anyway so it doesn't narrow anything.

A power role who's abilities don't out weigh being a miller: Harms only done if they have a roleblocker.

A power role who's abilities out weigh being a miller: At least we get a miller out of the way.

[chamber]

Well I think role-fishing applies to everyone.
By claiming miller, the only real difference in my role that affects you is that I cannot be cop investigated. How many people's alignments do you discover that way? One or two a game.
If you want to figure out my alignment, scum-hunt in the usual way and don't rely on me giving you role-based information. I'm not saying anything.

Explain to me why role fishing is bad? In my opinion its bad because either A a power role is outed and killed, or B a vanilla is outed and the mafia can focus elsewhere in their hunt for power.

Now given your claim I see the following possibilities:

Mafia: No harm to town in you being forced to claim early.

True

Vanilla: Given that you are a claimed miller its unlikely you were getting nked anyway so it doesn't narrow anything.

Narrows down PRs for scum, even if they were not going to NK me anyway = bad

A power role who's abilities don't out weigh being a miller: Harms only done if they have a roleblocker.

Gives unnecessary info to scum and doesn't help town much = bad

A power role who's abilities out weigh being a miller: At least we get a miller out of the way.

Town loses an asset = v. bad

(Bolded mine)

A more important question is what advantage would you get out of further role information (if any)?

I doubt if it would really give you a better guess at my alignment. Why would it.
All it would do is confirm to mafia if I had any other powers and the mafia could then assess my threat accordingly.
I prefer to leave the uncertainty in place.

Vanilla:

Narrows down PRs for scum, even if they were not going to NK me anyway = bad

Mildly bad at most and dependent on them having a roleblocker like role. I think this info would help the town more than the scum.

A power role who's abilities don't out weigh being a miller:

Gives unnecessary info to scum and doesn't help town much = bad

I will give you that this case is likely more positive for the mafia than the town.

A power role who's abilities out weigh being a miller:

Town loses an asset = v. Bad

Millers are very weak, I doubt your role is so powerful that you are much stronger than a vanilla. At the end of the day I'd still be happy the claimed miller was dead so I didn't have to deal with it in end game.

[chamber]

A more important question is what advantage would you get out of further role information (if any)?

This was the most important question.

A better gage of your alignment and the game as a whole.

[chamber]

Thats not good enough for me.

Now why exactly did you vote charter?

I don't really care if its good enough for you or not. Should enough people agree with me then their pressure will be enough for you. I normally don't explain my votes but given that the charter one was just an opening game arbitrary vote I have no issue saying as much. I say arbitrary, not random, because I voted him for the similarities in our user names.

[chamber]

Care to comment on what's wrong with my reasons for thinking "fishing" is ok in this case? (its so blatant Id hardly call it fishing)

[chamber]

What do you guys think about using an unofficial voting system so that we don't quick lynch by mistake?
example:

Unvote

fos charter

[chamber]

I think it funny you suggest it when you're the one getting votes. I vote no.

You're right, I don't want to get quick lynched! How scummy of me!

[chamber]

I still say no. Voting is crucial in finding scum.

We treat it like voting internally and avoid the danger of a non majority lynch.

[chamber]

Although not ideal I think my suggestion is much better than what we have to deal with right now.

[chamber]

More opinions on my voting suggestion are encouraged.

[chamber]

More opinions on my voting suggestion are encouraged.

I think it would eliminate both the pressure of votes, and information gained from hammer votes.

Cause people randomly being the hammer at l-1 or l-2 is real informative. It only takes away impact if we let it.

[chamber]

Can we at least agree on a reasonable number of max votes that should be placed on someone prior to us wanting them lynched?

[chamber]

L-1? If it's real small, scum can control it, I'd wager it's ~majority.

I agree that its probably ~majority but wouldn't that make the safe number l-2.

[chamber]

Now, from my perspective, all these "role-fishing" accusations are BS. If you don't know somebody's alignment and they drop a "miller" claim, hell yea you're going to test them and prod for more information. What if Budja fails to provide a character's name that could be considered a miller? Then it would be more likely that he's making up the miller claim. Chamber and Sotty7 are more pro-town in my eyes because they don't just dismiss the claim as "something to look at later in the game", but start to challenge it right off the bat. People who are accusing them of "fishing", on the other hand, are quite scummy in my opinion.

<3

You still might be scum trying to buddy me, but for now I'm just happy that I'm no longer doubting my sanity.

[chamber]

<3

You still might be scum trying to buddy me

, but for now I'm just happy that I'm no longer doubting my sanity.

For the record, this kind of cute phrasing doesn't really do much for your image.

I thought the entire doubting sanity thing when talking about millers was much more 'cute'.

[chamber]

His name claim doesn't do anything for me but it's not damning either. I'd still prefer role info, at the end of the day names are only what the mod wanted to make them.

[chamber]

I can't find a formal defenition of role fishing but I've always taken the term to mean going about it in an indirect way. Saying something like "Huh how come there was no kill?" to try and draw out a responce from the doctor would be a classic example of role fishing as I understand it. Asking someone for their role info imo isn't role fishing. It might still be anti-town, I don't think it is in this case. At any point I've already made my position clear, so I don't think you can hold it against me that I still believe it to be the case.

[chamber]

OH MY GOD, HE FISHES AGAIN. LYNCH HIM!

K.

Vote: chamber

really?

[chamber]

OH MY GOD, HE FISHES AGAIN. LYNCH HIM!

K.

Vote: chamber

really?

Yeah, really.

So to be clear, you are voting for me because I 'fished' a second time?

[chamber]

You are still going on about Budja after it's been made clear not to.

I'm not the one who brought it up. Someone asked me a direct question and I answered it honestly.

[chamber]

No, I saw Locke's question about name claim. Nothing about roles.

It was relevent to the question at hand.

[chamber]

@Locke, I have seen Dexter so that question is pretty useless but its basically because I pretended to be a SK.
@chamber, no-one agrees with you. It a

bad

idea. It had no real merits. I and others have already pointed this out. If you dislike this, too bad, I'm not full-claiming.
You know I'm a miller, you know my name. That is all you are getting.
I am not arguing over this again.

Actually, rereading a bit I can see the case on Konowa, setting a double standard as Artem says, is scummy. The rest seems more subjective and I haven't really been getting a bad feeling from his posts.
I'm still very interested in Artem's position of chamber. I am really interesting in your answer to my previous question.

Vote: Jebus

For not being right back.

Thats a little hypocritical considering I don't see much from you either.

I was asked a question and gave my answer. I accept that no one else wants you to full claim atm. Accordingly I accept that you aren't going to. This doesn't change that I still want you to though.

[chamber]

His name claim doesn't do anything for me but it's not damning either. I'd still prefer role info, at the end of the day names are only what the mod wanted to make them.

Aren't roles only what the mod wanted to make them? I don't really get where you're going with this, or why full role info is going to help town more than scum.

Don: what do you think of Konowa?

Almaster: what's your thinking behind 'further in the investigation'? Do you think lynches are going to depend on more than just L-X?

Its a lot easier to make a name meaningless then it is to make a role meaningless.

[chamber]

So Budja's name claim doesn't make him any more believable but knowing what else he can do would? Why?

I'd rather not coach him into being able to give answers I'm looking for.

[chamber]

Ok, how about we come at it from this angle: it's already clear that characters affect abilities, from the justification for charter's post restriction. In my opinion, Neil Perry makes sense as a miller. Now, if you're unsure about Budja's miller claim, does him claiming Neil Perry make you think he's more likely to be telling the truth, less likely to be telling the truth or have absolutely no impact on your thinking whatsoever? If it's the third, as I'm getting the impression it is, why does a perfectly compatible name claim not affect your opinion of the claim at all?

I'm scum and I get given the name Neil Perry as either a safe claim or as my actual role. If I know the series well, or use my pregame time to research, it wouldn't be that hard to reach that a miller claim would fit perfectly. Yes it could also easily happen that the mod saw this instead but I don't think its impossible at all for a player to have done so as well. Given that, I don't think his name claim accomplishes much. Subsequently had he pulled out an extremely scummy name like the real icetruck killer then the wifom of him actually claiming the name would also more or less make it useless. If I thought a name claim was going to effect my opinion I would have asked for one. Finally to be clear I don't think he's scum, I'd just rather get him out of the way before end game.

[chamber]

Dead or reasonably happy that hes town. I don't like leaving millers in the middle for any longer than I have to.

[chamber]

Do you have any specific meta that influences your attitude towards millers?

If there was a specific game that made me think like this I no longer remember it. I'm pretty sure this is my first game with a day1 claimed miller on this site.

[chamber]

OH MY GOD, HE FISHES AGAIN. LYNCH HIM!

K.

Vote: chamber

really?

Yeah, really.

So to be clear, you are voting for me because I 'fished' a second time?

[chamber]

OH MY GOD, HE FISHES AGAIN. LYNCH HIM!

K.

Vote: chamber

really?

Yeah, really.

So to be clear, you are voting for me because I 'fished' a second time?

Clear. Also, your proxy-voting idea was pretty awful.

What advantage do I gain as scum for reinforcing that I still want him to claim?

What advantage do I gain as scum for suggesting the voting scheme I suggested?

[chamber]

I want chamber dead. The sooner, the better.

i can be okay with this. i could answer his questions for him if he wants, but i am guessing they were directed at someone else.

I would like Almaster to answer them please. Also if there is enough people wanting me dead to get me lynched please say so before adding more votes so that I can defend myself before randomly dying pre majority.

[chamber]

i haven't voted. it looks like you are well on your way, so defending yourself might be a good idea.

I should have phrased that better. I already am defending myself, I meant I'll claim should enough people threaten votes.

[chamber]

I haven't been bothered by chamber that much previously to this as a lot of the phrasings and argumentation he's using I've used and use as town. But this last post of his is pretty terrible and strikes me as almost over eager to claim.

I've been lynched on many occasions without being able to say everything I've wanted to say. I just want that to not happen here. In a normal game I'd try and wait till l-1 or maybe l-2, but given that nature of this set up the threat of l-1 or l-2 is good enough for me.

[chamber]

Chamber: do you have any thoughts on other players? What do you think of DDD right now? Also, answering Budja's question would be good.

Charter: I know you have to be brief, so who are your top three suspects?

I don't like Jebus' disappearing act. I want to hear a lot more from him now or I call active lurking.

As far as I`m concerned I still have a `vote` on charter, I`m just using my own suggestion, as such I thought his question was kind of pointless. I have no read of ddd, he hasn`t said much for me to get a read on. I`m working on evaluating everyone else. Speaking of which can almaster answer my questions please.

[chamber]

1) a) You avoid backpedalling, which looks even more scummy.
b) If you persist enough, he might cave and give the scumteam what it wants.

So you aren't voting me because I said it a second time then, you are voting me because I said it the first time? If I'm town how was I supposed to answer his question?

2) Predictability. Because we don't know what L-0 is, it's a huge risk for the scumteam to vote for itself. It's also harder for them to know when they need to start busing and/or claiming. By creating proxy-voting, they can gauge when they need to get on and off wagons without the risk. There is also the possibility that members of the scumteam posses daytime abilities - proxy voting will tell them when the use of those abilities might be needed.

Town doesn't benefit MORE from predictability? I think you are crazy for suggesting that. Hypothetic day abilities are also hypothetical, how about waiting till one turns up dead.

These answers were terrible imo. I think your vote for me was terribly scummy. I can't figure out if you are scum or just bad at the game though.

[chamber]

These answers were terrible imo. I think your vote for me was terribly scummy. I can't figure out if you are scum or just bad at the game though.

His answers might have been terrible but that doesn't make your criticism of them any less ironic. I would easily call your behaviour towards the claims at the start of the day just as bad.

I obviously support everything I've said so this is only ironic to those that think my opinions are terrible. I honestly can't see how anyone could put my opinions in the same light as GM's though. I admit mine were somewhat subjective, but his are just terrible. In his first point he left no way for me to respond as town. So he was already decided that I was scum by that logic, yet he pointed to that instance as making me vote worthy.

[chamber]

I am leaning Konowa since he keeps defending chamber.

I understand that scum can defend town just as easily as town can, but what makes you think hes more likely to be scum than town? If you are assuming I'm scum shouldn't you be determening my alignment before blaming him for defending scum?

[chamber]

He could be scum defending town, or a buddy. It doesnt look like Konowa’s town.

Why is it impossible for town to defend town, or scum for that matter.

[chamber]

Wait, what the hell? You just said 'town defend scum' as if you're scum. Explain.

"or scum for that matter" was intended as a hypothetical from your pov. I lead with town and added "for that matter" to indicate as such. My actions aren't scummy imo so there is every reason to defend them.

[chamber]

And this hypothetical is that you are scum. Why would you include that in there?

Wait, what the hell? You just said 'town defend scum' as if you're scum. Explain.

"or scum for that matter" was intended as a hypothetical

from your pov

. I lead with town and added "for that matter" to indicate as such. My actions aren't scummy imo so there is every reason to defend them.

[chamber]

As far as I`m concerned I still have a `vote` on charter, I`m just using my own suggestion, as such I thought his question was kind of pointless. I have no read of ddd, he hasn`t said much for me to get a read on. I`m working on evaluating everyone else. Speaking of which can almaster answer my questions please.

1. Is charter scummy in your opinion?
2. Do you really have no read on everyone else?

Missed this some how.
1 charter is scummy imo.
2 Its not that I have no reads on anyone, they just aren't strong. I feel much worse about almaster than when I said that. I need to meta him before I'm sure if its him being him, or him being scum.

[chamber]

No, after 168 chamber is scummiest.

My 168 makes perfect sense. If I'm trying to judge something you've said, why would I assume you know that I'm town? Especially when you've made it clear you think otherwise.

After reading games GM has been in on this site I'm more confused about him. Apparently he's been playing for 4+ years on other site(s).

[chamber]

... but mostly for reasons unrelated to this latest argument of yours.

Elaborate.

Trend analysis

and a general dislike of your phrasings mostly. For example your rhetorical question about people ignoring your name claim didn't sit particularly well with me.

What trends?

[chamber]

Vote: Jebus

for still contributing nothing. Maybe a little pressure will encourage a meaningful post.

Konowa: you still haven't explained how directly asking about abilities is less scummy than asking for a nameclaim.

Chamber: do you have an actual read on Almaster? 'Confused' doesn't constitute one. What confused you in his meta?

Still waiting for Almaster to respond.

1 His play in this game doesn't resemble his previous play as either alignment to me.
2 I'd expect his play to come from a player with about as much experience as his wiki suggests, not someone with 4+ years of it.

All in all I'm just confused. If I had to say one way or another I'd say scum, but im not confident.

Jebus promised to post this weekend and claimed to be absent till then. I suggest waiting till at least saturday rolls around before voting him.

[chamber]

no post restriction. people are voting me without adequate reasoning. seems to happen all the time. eventually it just gets to you.

I was toying with the idea of voting for you for a while but eventually decided against it. All in all I don't think suspicion against you is completely unfounded. If you are town its likely a mechanism of how you as a player play, because in the end it was artems play that convinced me not to vote for you yet.

[chamber]

@chamber, why is charter scummy? Could you expand more on your reads and who you think is scum?

I generally am better at defining who I think is town and scum, but I never explain my votes. Go read any game by me or look at my title for evidence of this. This game has my scumdar muddled and I can't make sense of it no matter how many times I reread it.

[chamber]

vote:Locke Lamora

I had to meta half the players in this game before I found someone I wanted to vote.

[chamber]

I am finding myself wanting to go back on chamber. Cyberbob, your thoughts?

I was wondering why I found myself with no votes so quickly.

For the record don seems like a terrible lynch and ll needs to die.

[chamber]

I'm happy with my vote atm. I don't know what you are really looking for here. I've also already given my opinion on don. Nothing new was discussed so I didn't feel compelled to post.

[chamber]

unvote; Vote: Chamber

'Nothing new to discuss'? You didn't discuss anything when you voted for me either. You've given one line of opinion about Don and kept quiet. I imagine what people are looking for is some scumhunting. If you think I should be lynched, then get on with making a case instead of sitting there doing nothing.

I don`t make cases

[chamber]

I don`t make cases

You're job as town is to find scum and convince others to follow you. Thats not going to happen if you always stick to your awful meta-excuse.
---

Only as you define it. If I thought my play style was anti-town I wouldn't use it.

[chamber]

I don`t make cases

You're job as town is to find scum and convince others to follow you. Thats not going to happen if you always stick to your awful meta-excuse.
---

Only as you define it. If I thought my play style was anti-town I wouldn't use it.

Does that playstyle of your work for you better when you are town, or when you are scum?
This does not include being policy lynched.

My style makes playing as scum really hard. Unintuitive perhaps but its the truth.

[chamber]

I get that Sotty's vote follows her last post but Sotty has posted little in the last week or two. I'd like more from the both of them TBH.

This all said, I'm not happy with Jebus's lurking myself.

this

[chamber]

It makes me a little uncertain but not enough to move my vote.

Same with confirmable, unless you actually claim, you can't confirm youself. If enough people want to lynch you, we can deal with that then but otherwise its not important yet.

Let the scum WIFOM.

so you are going to use my claim to help you determine if you want to lynch me? isn't that the exact reason why you are wanting of my lynch in the first place? because i asked for a claim from someone who was on his way to being lynched so i could help determine if he was, in fact, the correct day 1 lynch?

whatever. i don't know why i even try. the fact that i am the only player who sees this shit just blows my mind. blows it.

I'm with you in so far as the reason people are attacking you is extremely poor.

[chamber]

I had to resist extreme temptation in order to not vote for jebus. Because of this its hard for me to put blame on other people for doing so, even when it seems like an easy 'blame free' wagon for scum to pile on. At this point I'd like to ask that jebus be replaced.

[chamber]

Scum->Town.

Konowa
Debonair Danny DiPietro
chamber
AlmasterGM, Locke Lamora
don_johnson (recently moved)
Jebus, SocioPath
Sotty7
Cyberbob
charter

Nothing exceptional here but this is very basically what I am thinking. Almaster, Locke due to absence/gut. don is now neutral. Neither Jebus or Socio have posted much. Sotty is not active but has mostly good logic. Cyber,charter are actively scumhunting and make good logic.

One example of good logic from cyber plz.

[chamber]

I assume the thread is so quiet because we are waiting on a konowa claim?
Not supporting the wagon here, just wondering why the thread seems to have slowed so much (not that I'm helping).

Also, vote for LL!

[chamber]

I assume the thread is so quiet because we are waiting on a konowa claim?
Not supporting the wagon here, just wondering why the thread seems to have slowed so much (not that I'm helping).

Also, vote for LL!

I love how you KNOW you're useless, but you don't care.

Still waiting for Konowa to claim.

I care, its why I made that post at all. When I said (not that I'm helping) I simply meant that I also hadn't posted in a while.

[chamber]

I care, its why I made that post at all. When I said (not that I'm helping) I simply meant that I also hadn't posted in a while.

What do you think you

have

contributed to the game beyond white noise and requests for claims?

Define white noise.

[chamber]

I care, its why I made that post at all. When I said (not that I'm helping) I simply meant that I also hadn't posted in a while.

What do you think you

have

contributed to the game beyond white noise and requests for claims?

Define white noise.

White noise is pretty self-explanatory, but I'll bite. In this context "white noise" refers to posts that don't really serve any purpose; they don't help to catch scum, they don't offer any meaningful points of view on a situation... they're just empty words whose usefulness is entirely superficial.

Nearly all my posts are not white noise under that description imo.

[chamber]

Nearly all my posts are not white noise under that description imo.

You don't see anything wrong with your no-cases playstyle. QED.

I don't see the point of this line of questioning if this is where you were going. If I thought something was wrong with my no case style I wouldn't use it. If you thought my no case style would impair my judgment when it came to my own posts why would you direct the question at me in the first place?

[chamber]

Nearly all my posts are not white noise under that description imo.

You don't see anything wrong with your no-cases playstyle. QED.

I don't see the point of this line of questioning if this is where you were going. If I thought something was wrong with my no case style I wouldn't use it. If you thought my no case style would impair my judgment when it came to my own posts why would you direct the question at me in the first place?

I actually didn't have that comeback in mind when I started down this track; it just came to mind when I saw "imo".

You didn't really answer my question, though. I asked what you think you've contributed to the game; all I've had in response is "define white noise" and "my posts aren't white noise under that definition".

How

aren't they white noise? What, specifically, have you done to further the town's win condition

To judge what I've done that has advanced the towns win condition is nearly impossible at this point. You can only judge what I've tried to do as I've been ignored on a couple suggestions, and no one has been lynched yet. If you are looking at what I tried to do then go read me in iso. If you are looking for what I've conclusively done that's protown the only thing I can offer is a minor defense of don who appears to be town atm. Day 1 I feel its more important to judge based on perceived intentions than outcomes. Town are lacking information and thus will make mistakes more times than not.

[chamber]

Socio, I don't know why you're taking it so personally.

Pretty much this. It's just one list from one player, your reaction to it feels like overkill considering you aren't even close to the top.

Cyberbob have you ever played with chamber before?

I'm fairly sure he hasn't.

[chamber]

@Konowa, full claim please.

Nope.

LOL, well aren't you amusing.

Unvote. Vote: Konowa.

Cause that was a level headed response.

[chamber]

interesting

[chamber]

Konowa, you've been blessed with a second chance to claim, please use it.

[chamber]

Konowa, you've been blessed with a second chance to claim, please use it.

Seems like Konowa might have known that it wasn't enough to lynch him, and therefor didn't feel a need to at that point of time.

This might still be his 'first chance' in his eyes.

The thought crossed my mind but I didn't want to suggest anything before hearing his claim.

[chamber]

That would seem a foolish risk to take for me. Lynch numbers are uncertain.

Unless its a facet of his role, which I'm pretty sure is exactly what socio was suggesting.

[chamber]

A facet of his role maybe, but that doesn't take into account other people's roles.

How many roles do you think deal with odd hidden lynch mechanics?

[chamber]

Unvote, Vote:Konowa

Not impressed by the lack of full claim at all.

You couldn't wait till he checked in again?

[chamber]

chamber is totally Konowa's scumbuddy.

At this point I'm half hoping he comes up town so that I don't have to deal with this tomorrow -.-

[chamber]

Hopefully you don't even make it to tomorrow.

GL with that. If I get nked I'm going to be very confused with either the mafia or don.

[chamber]

vote ll

[chamber]

vote ll

[chamber]

so don lied needlessly as town.

Looking at the Konowa wagon, I am liking Sotty and DDD more and Almaster and Locke less.

vote: Almaster

for his last-minute bus.

Lets focus on ll for now, we can get to almaster tomorrow.

[chamber]

so don lied needlessly as town.

Looking at the Konowa wagon, I am liking Sotty and DDD more and Almaster and

Locke

less.

vote: Almaster

for his last-minute bus.

2 > 1.

[chamber]

Vote: Chamber

Charter would've wanted it this way.

With that in mind, thanks go out ot the mafia(or sk(or other killing role)). Might make it threw today alive with him dead.

[chamber]

Chamber: am I right to suspect that you're just going to keep calling for my lynch without even offering a shred of a case?

For as long as I think that you are the best lynch this will be the case.

[chamber]

Right, so if someone else somehow presents themselves as a better lynch, you'll start tunnelling on them without a case instead.

I'm not tunneling, but yes.

[chamber]

Vote Count

AlmasterGM

(Budja, Sotty7)

Budja

()

chamber

(Cyberbob )

Cyberbob

( )

Debonair Danny DiPietro

( )

Jebus

( )

Locke Lamora

(chamber, Debonair Danny DiPietro)

SocioPath

( )

Sotty7

( )

Not Voting :

AlmasterGM, Jebus, Locke Lamora, Sociopath

Deadline :

November 26, 5:00p.m. Central

Notes:

None.

DDD is voting for me not with me.

~Fixed

[chamber]

Those 2 'defending' posts were made when I thought someone hammered both times. That is therefore a completely ridiculous statement. Also, why wouldn't you have wanted him to give a claim there? I mean I think you can use the last of those 3 against me, but using the first 2 makes absolutely no sense.

[chamber]

Problem is, I don't see Chamber and Almaster as being scum together, given Almaster's early attack and vote on Chamber.

This isn't actually a problem.

[chamber]

As I think you're both scummy, it is. I need to decide which one of you is more likely to be Konowa's buddy.

Although my post was mostly intended as a cute way to say that I`m not scum, it really isnt a problem. Decided whos more scummy. Lynch them. If they are scum decide how unlikely it is we were partners, if they aren`t scum don`t worry about it.

[chamber]

Yep, I don't really see a change in Chamber's play coming at all.

Vote: Chamber

I'm going to be away from home until Thursday night so I won't be on much until then. If Chamber can change his attitude and contribute something else other than 'lynch Locke', that'd be really helpful. Jebus also needs to be out of here if he doesn't start making substantial contributions fast.

Afraid to brake it to you, but voting me for how I play is a terrible move. I play like this in every game. If you want to try and policy lynch me call it what it is. If the vote is there for other reasons that's fine. I don't even care if you list them or not, but voting me for my playstyle alone isn't very smart, or pro town.

[chamber]

I'm voting for you because I believe your playstyle actions basically consist of you stalling until you get a lynch on me and occasionally defending yourself when required. That's not pro-town.

This is an interpretation so to be clear: Is the issue you have with me me not proving cases along with my votes? If so I do it as every alignment and you really can't use it as a method of detecting how 'scummy' I am. This holds true no matter how anti or protown it may be.

[chamber]

Afraid to brake it to you, but voting me for how I play is a terrible move. I play like this in every game. If you want to try and policy lynch me call it what it is. If the vote is there for other reasons that's fine. I don't even care if you list them or not, but voting me for my playstyle alone isn't very smart, or pro town.

So if you play the same annoying, anti-town way every time, how are we ever supposed to get a read on you?

Charter was right about Konowa. I see no reason why we shouldn't believe him again today.

Vote: chamber.

I don't feel the way I play is anti-town. That aside there are variances in my play that I notice, go do the leg work yourself though. The key here is that me not explaining votes is a constant.

Blindly following someone, even when you know them to be town, is stupid. You should judge the merits of the case they put forth or come up with one on your own. Just so there is no apparent contradiction here, I do make cases against people, I just don't feel its in the towns interest to share them.

[chamber]

Also that vote put me at L-1. I'll claim if no one unvotes reasonably soon.

[chamber]

Blindly following someone, even when you know them to be town, is stupid. You should judge the merits of the case they put forth or come up with one on your own. Just so there is no apparent contradiction here, I do make cases against people, I just don't feel its in the towns interest to share them.

Charter being town and being right isn't the only thing guiding me. I had my vote on you for substantial portions of Day 1. Those feelings have not changed.

Thats fine, but then say that. I don't like that you tried to push charters confirmed toan status as me being confirmed mafia.

[chamber]

@chamber,

I can see one reason for not explaining votes: making the target worry/panic.

Even if this is your goal, it is still best to explain your votes eventually.
Why don't you break your meta and tell me why Locke is scummy? Do you actually lose anything from doing this?
I feel that this meta is holding the game back. You are holding your cards so close that I can't read your alignment well or the validity of the attacks on you which quite frankly makes you dead weight to me right now.

@Almaster, you look like the most likely bus of konowa, the "safeclaim post" is just icing on the cake.

More like a side effect then a reason of its own.

[chamber]

I'm a cop and have a guilty from yesterday that I was milking but then almaster got quick lynched . I was somewhat afraid I might be paranoid but I also have an innocent now so yeah.

[chamber]

The guilty is on a living player, not LL, if I wasn't clear.

[chamber]

The guilty is on a living player, not LL, if I wasn't clear.

Even better.
Hopefully the innocent wasn't Cyberbob as well.
Should save both until after a potential massclaim though.


The LL thing makes it less believable though.
Looking at you in ISO shows a tunneling on now-known scum-LL with the assurance of a cop.
Scum would be dumb not to pick up the cop smell of THAT.

I don't think I stunk that badly of cop(see: at all), and I was also the next biggest wagon to almaster. To me it makes perfect sense that I lived.

[chamber]

I'm Dexter and my role is pretty complicated, but I am basically a vig. I killed Locke last night. Did not kill night one.

I'm not sure if it is the best idea to reveal my whole role, but if that's what the town wants then I will. I will say that I was linked with Don which is why he could safely claim Dexter and no one counter. Part of my role was day masons with him

Wow, that confuses me a bit. Anyway, no need to claim any more *winkwink*.

[chamber]

Tired of waiting on jebus, he's my guilty.

Vote Jebus

[chamber]

I'm James Doakes, my innocent is on sotty as I suggested already. Also, something I didn't claim about my role earlier: Under some condition(which I don't know) when I cop I can lose my temper and kill the person instead, but this hasn't happened.

Unvote

while I consider sottys claim.

[chamber]

third result?

There have only been 2 nights...

[chamber]

@sotty Were you specifically told your kill would fail on town, or is there more to the code?

[chamber]

The code doesn't talk about scum or town in any way. Just people who meet Harry's code and those who don't.

In story character, or does it consider the actions of the player in game?

[chamber]

I'm Dexter and my role is pretty complicated, but I am basically a vig. I killed Locke last night. Did not kill night one.

I'm not sure if it is the best idea to reveal my whole role, but if that's what the town wants then I will. I will say that I was linked with Don which is why he could safely claim Dexter and no one counter. Part of my role was day masons with him

Wow, that confuses me a bit

. Anyway, no need to claim any more *winkwink*.

I also assumed it was Dexter who I'd kill if I investigated him.

[chamber]

I'm Dexter and my role is pretty complicated, but I am basically a vig. I killed Locke last night. Did not kill night one.

I'm not sure if it is the best idea to reveal my whole role, but if that's what the town wants then I will. I will say that I was linked with Don which is why he could safely claim Dexter and no one counter. Part of my role was day masons with him

Wow, that confuses me a bit

. Anyway, no need to claim any more *winkwink*.

I also assumed it was Dexter who I'd kill if I investigated him.

I would have thought Doakes would find Dexter guilty.

Unwarned flavour based sanity issues would be just as bastard as putting a random sanity cop into games. I choose to believe that no mod would ever do either in a non-bastard game.

[chamber]

I have an issue right now. My gut read and my information is now in conflict, and historically when that happens I've gone with info and it normally ends up bad for me. I'm not set on not voting jebus just yet, but I want more time to talk. There is absolutely no reason to end the day just yet.

[chamber]

Ok games not moving, I'm ready to lynch Jebus. Sotty, if Jebus

is

town, don't fire tonight.

[chamber]

If we mislynch today then we go to night with 5, if the mafia hit seperate targets that aren't each other we go to day with 3, if she kills one of them it would be 1-1 = our loss.

[chamber]

Vote jebus

[chamber]

If we mislynch today then we go to night with 5, if the mafia hit seperate targets that aren't each other we go to day with 3, if she kills one of them it would be 1-1 = our loss.

If we mislynch today, and that happens, the game is still lost because Budja can't vote the ITK:

A Non-Budja lynch, and separate scum kills would leave 3 (because you say Sotty killing a guaranteed scum is bad) but one of those 3 is Budja, and therefor, the ITK wins anyways.

Wrong. Lynching there would be town loss, correct play is a no-lynch which should still be doable.

[chamber]

If we mislynch today then we go to night with 5, if the mafia hit seperate targets that aren't each other we go to day with 3, if she kills one of them it would be 1-1 = our loss.

If we mislynch today, and that happens, the game is still lost because Budja can't vote the ITK:

A Non-Budja lynch, and separate scum kills would leave 3 (because you say Sotty killing a guaranteed scum is bad) but one of those 3 is Budja, and therefor, the ITK wins anyways.

Wrong. Lynching there would be town loss, correct play is a no-lynch which should still be doable.

Wat.
Wrong?
Nothing I said there is incorrect. Perhaps you should reread it.

It is most definitely incorrect. If we go to day 3 with the ITK, budja, and The last member of the mafia team, budja and the mafia member both vote for no lynch then we prisoners dilemma the mafia member and ITK and hope for a win.

@DDD If it makes you feel better socio's been tripping my sumdar all day, but I can't see not acting on my cop info being the right play. Here's hopping both that he's the ITK, and its the ITK I trip out and kill.

[chamber]

@DDD If it makes you feel better socio's been tripping my sumdar all day, but I can't see not acting on my cop info being the right play. Here's hopping both that he's the ITK, and its the ITK I trip out and kill.

A bit and probably agreed, but there's probably no harm in backing off the vote for now. Not sure what you're getting at with the second sentence though.

Seriously chamber, I'd like an explanation for the second sentence, it currently has me scratching my head.

If jebus is scum I'm going to cop socio and hope both that hes the ITK and that it triggers my kill. It was mostly said in jest, I doubt I'd be so lucky.

[chamber]

I think you should hammer.

[chamber]

so, I have a guilty on socio but I don't think we can lynch him, would you like to do the honours of vigging him tonight sotty?

[chamber]

Actually, scratch that, we are gonna try something else out tonight, and if that fails we can use juls.

Vote socio

just incase we

can

lynch him somehow.

[chamber]

I was kinda hoping to be dead actually.

The rest of my role that I didn't claim is the fact since the death of Don (Harry) my cop/Vig powers are sliced in half and that it is only a 50/50 chance that I can get a result. And even if I do that result could be "meets Harry's code." "doesn't meet Harry's code." "Requires further investigation" or "no results"

Last night my choice was also Socio but I failed in my dice roll and got no results. I was trying to get the SK to kill me, but maybe because we are brothers he can't.

I did get another message last night that basically said Socio is the ITK so yeah... Not sure what to make of that.

The Triple D kill is

really

confusing.

Luckily I was keeping a part of my role secret then, but I'm not positive exactly how it works. At night I'm not only a cop. I can choose between being a cop for the night, or throwing someone in jail for that night/the next day. I'm not fully sure what this would do, I imagine im a jail keeper at night, but I have no idea what kind of effect it would have on the day so have yet to use it. Here we can hope that it removes him from the lynching majority and we block his kill eitherway. In short if our lynch fails we no lynch then I jail him tonight and in the morning hopefully we can kill him, if not we still get another shot with sottys ability killing him I think (can you expand on this)

[chamber]

so, I have a guilty on socio but I don't think we can lynch him, would you like to do the honours of vigging him tonight sotty?

Why wouldn't you be able to lynch me?

There are 4 total votes out there that aren't mine.

Majority is 3.

I did get another message last night that basically said Socio is the ITK so yeah... Not sure what to make of that.

Thats hilarious.

No, really. Assuming Triple D is correct and its the ITK himself sending you the messages Sotty.

So, assuming that I am the ITK (based off the note), what you are saying is that I sent you a note telling you that I am the ITK.

Majority is 3 and there are 3 non-you players but one claimed to be unable to lynch the ITK.

[chamber]

Maybe there is no ITK, at least give voting a shot. When it fails to work we can NL and use my plan.

[chamber]

That was horrible chamber.

Sotty has a double vote which can counteract my no-vote.
Why should I place my vote when it can (very very probably) only lynch town.

I completely forgot about sottys double vote -.-

[chamber]

That was horrible chamber.

Sotty has a double vote which can counteract my no-vote.
Why should I place my vote when it can (very very probably) only lynch town.

I completely forgot about sottys double vote -.-

ps sotty: Vote for socio and end the game plz.

[chamber]

At this point you have to think that I'm either a cop like I claim, and therefore socio is the ITK. Or think that I'm the ITK and pulled a massive gambit by guessing that jebus was the last mafia member yesterday. Occams razor this shit and end it please.

[chamber]

That was horrible chamber.

Sotty has a double vote which can counteract my no-vote.
Why should I place my vote when it can (very very probably) only lynch town.

I completely forgot about sottys double vote -.-

ps sotty: Vote for socio and end the game plz.

Yes that would certainly end the game alright.

He needs to try harder otherwise I will hammer.

Oh good.
I'm glad its so easy to make me do all the heavy lifting.
If no one else is going to try, then why should I be expected to?
Cause of 'follow the cop'?

Vote: chamber

So easy for chamber and his miserable playstyle to coast through a game conveniently as the role of cop, which is as point and click as him.

I have a feeling that the ITK would know who his brother is, hence the 'innocent' reading on Dexter.

But yeah Sotty, you should just end it.
Hows that for 'try harder'?

zzzz
Can you hammer him already?

[chamber]

zzzz
Can you hammer him already?

Can you hammer him already?

Hey wow, look, I can play like chamber.

You're upset you got beat by a cop, no worries, I'm upset when I get beat by cops too. Just go to your room and calm down for a bit while the grown-ups lynch you.

[chamber]

Im jailing budja if this goes to night, so unless its you we are all good.

[chamber]

Im gonna wait for the mod notes to be sure but I think my role was likely way too strong.

[chamber]

Town looks generally over-powered.

[chamber]

Im gonna wait for the mod notes to be sure but I think my role was likely way too strong.

I thought the fear of killing someone would detere you from using cop so much, especially late in end game. I was wrong clearly. Also, as mentioned, the mistake with Dexter/Sotty really screwed it up. In retrospect it would have been better for you to just be a jailer. I also think that you and Sotty were the two worst for scum to survive until end game and it just so happened you did.

I am in general surprised that Dexter made it to end game. I also was surprised that scum didn't frame themselves on night 1. They would have avoided the guilty. I also think scum getting lynched D1 really weakened them. In retrospect they probably would have benefited from a role blocker.

Given the killing clause I was using my role as a vig more than a cop. It just failed everytime.

[chamber]

I forgot to say this right away so: The game was extremely well modded. I enjoyed it.