Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[AlmasterGM]

/confirm.

Hi.

[AlmasterGM]

I suggest a healthy birthday bandwagon on Hoopla instead >:)

It's been Hoop's birthday for, like, the past month.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Peabody.

This is not a random vote. He annoys me.

[AlmasterGM]

So do you actually think something he has done so far (by his one post) was scummy, or are you simply voting him because he annoys you??

He annoys me. It has nothing to do with his one post.

vote: AlmasterGM No explanation needed.

Uh, explanation is totally needed. Who are you?

[AlmasterGM]

My name is hiphop. Nice to meet you. Why do I need to give a bs explanation?

Nice to meet you as well. And please entertain me with a BS explanation - I revel in BS.

[AlmasterGM]

Alamaster and I have played in a game before. The game is ongoing, so I would rather not discuss things I'm not allowed to discuss. The game can be found here

It's AL-MASTER, not AL-A-MASTER. Seriously, if I had DK powers I would off you right now.

[AlmasterGM]

Not liking Peabody or CoCo at the moment.

[AlmasterGM]

Hey Alamaster, do you have any more content you wish to add?

Only if you spell my name correctly.

[AlmasterGM]

I'll give Hoops the benefit of the doubt.

Unvote. Vote: Messiah

Claim now, foo.

P.S. I still don't like CoCo or Peabody.

[AlmasterGM]

Glad you asked.

CoCo

He hasn't posted anything except two open-ended questions that didn't go anywhere. How long does it take to catch up? Also, I don't like him metawise. He made some annoying moves in the last game I played with him.

Peabody

1 - Peabody links to an ongoing game we both played in. I doubt any of you read it, but if you did, you would see the strategic value of the post.
2/3 - I hate the "defensive" argument - it generally ends up indicting jumpy/newb townies way more than scum.
3 - Takes my joke too seriously. Sends things in way too many directions.
4 - tl;dr
5 - Votes for cooldog at 3am. Still no explanation. WTF?

[AlmasterGM]

@AlmasterGM- what do you think of Empking?

Meh. Why?

[AlmasterGM]

@Almaster-give me your opinion first. I will explain after you comment. If the info is role related, will it not that reveal her role.

Meh.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm getting tired of Sposh ignoring me, let's try bold.

I'm getting tired of you not being at L-0.

[AlmasterGM]

@Almaster-To me it sounds like the main reason you suspect Coco is because he has only posted one liners that didn't go anywhere. If you look at Empking's post, they seem to do the same. Which is why I asked. I wanted to know how you compared the two. You vote Peabody, because you don't like him. You suspect Coco because you don't like his playstyle. Who else in this game do you not like? It seems to me that you have the attitude that guys you don't like are scum. The rest of your suspicion seems to come from looking to hard. Besides people who you don't like, who looks suspicious?

You.

Also, CoCo has way less posts that Empking.

Also, Peabody is actually suspicious - I don't just not like him.

[AlmasterGM]

Liking hiphop less and less by the post.

[AlmasterGM]

AGM

: Most posts are one line and tend to lack in content for the most part. Most of the posts talk about how he doesn't like peabody or CoCo (though he does give reasonable explanation as to why he dislikes CoCo.) What really turns me off, however, is his post about messiah.

I'm getting tired of you not being at L-0.

He seemed far too willing to lynch with no further info from hoopla. This is concerning to me.

When people make interesting claims on D1, I believe them. If they lie, we can just smack them on D2, so there's really no point. I'm confused as to why more people aren't believing Hoopla.

I don't see how you can criticize me not liking Peabody and CoCo given that I've made legitimate arguments against them and they are both scummy. Also, I'm adding hiphop to the list of people I don't like.

CoCo

: Low post count as well as low content. He says he has been working unusual hours, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now in hopes he post more very soon.

Wrong. CoCo is scum.

CooLDoG

: Seems to be town, but was dumb enough to go to a halo odst gaming party, so im not convinced of his stance. Also, in regards to milkshake, I only half agree. There is no problem in being "info hungry" but milkshake also has not done too much in the way of scumhuntung IMO.

ODST gaming party sounds like the best idea ever.

Empking

: Has a major lack of post content. His only given reason in voting messiah was "faith", and not to offend religious people, but faith won't help the town.

Meh. I have faith that this guy is going to come through for us later.

Peabody

: Low post count but they all seem to contain some useful info, and since it's his birthday weekend, ill give him the benefit of the doubt. For now.

Scum.

[AlmasterGM]

Unvote

I still think Hiphop is more scummy than most but I have to say I don't like Peeabody's actions and how they effected the Messiah wagon.

Vote: Peabody

I got really happy when I saw this, then you unvoted. Thanks for the letdown.

[AlmasterGM]

The stuff anyone posts is worthless

at this point.

Day two is where

the info

is used.

I didn't say that there is no info day one, but that the info cannot be used without fact to along with it, otherwise it is just suspicion. And as I already pointed out fact is not obtained until day 2.[/quote]

OMG DAY 2. IT'S SO USEFUL.

I sort of what to let you live just so I can see what all this magical day two stuff you are going to pull off is. As far as I'm concerned, Day 2 is only marginally superior two Day 2 in most cases (excluding some random luck).

[AlmasterGM]

I like my tactic, there is no better way to create discussion.

The problem with you guys is I play guilty, until proven innocent, while you guys seem to play innocent until proven guilty. Once someone is guilty how can one be more guilty. So he is as basically as suspicious as anybody else.

This makes no sense. If everyone is guilty, there's no dichotomy to use as a weighing mechanism, rendering our decision making capabilities useless. And there are TOTALLY shades of guilty. You, for example, are guilty, but not as guilty as you would be if a confirmed cop got a SCUM read on you.

[AlmasterGM]

@AGM
So are you saying, without a doubt, that hiphop is scum?

No, read my post. My argument was that there are shades of guilty.

stuff about why I suck

The irony of this post is incredible. Go iso your own posts. They follow the EXACT same pattern as mine. Good try at attempting to start a counter-bandwagon away from hiphop, though.

I'm also extremely confused why I'm taking crap over suspecting CoCo and Peabody. CoCo still hasn't said anything of ANY relevance except "sorry for not posting" and this game has been going on for a couple of days. Peabody was previously suspicious because he voted at 3am for no reason. I'm confused as to why everyone else doesn't find these two suspicious.

[AlmasterGM]

You did say that, but you also have many instances of blatenly saying people are scum. for example,

True. This is because I find the appearance of being absolute generally elicits a better response. In CoCo's case, however, this is clearly not the case. This makes me more suspicious of him.

This in itself seems contradictory, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that if you changed the word guilty into something less absolute, like scummy, I would agree with he statement.

I used the rhetoric guilty because that's what hiphop was using, and I was responding to him.

Also, this is more of a personal opinion than fact, your seem entirely unconcerned with Empking, my #2 on scummyness. You say things like "faith he will come through for us" and when asked about him early on, all you said was "meh". Granted he hasn't said a whole lot, but I still think more than one three letter word can be said about him. Not really damning evidence, but it just strikes me the wrong way.

First, evaluations are contextual - there are certain people I have certain expectations for. I expect CoCo and Peabody to do something. I don't really expect Empking to do anything until D2-3. As such, I have no opinion on him, but I do have an opinion on CoCo and Peabody. Second, I partially said "Meh" because I wanted to see hiphop's response. As I expected, instead of going on the offense about it, which he SHOULD'VE done given my internally contradictory behavior, he posted some vague analysis and waited for someone else to take the leap. This is why he is high on my scumlist.

[AlmasterGM]

"You suck, go convince yourself that you're wrong" isn't a valid response to anything that I said.

I only give valid responses to posts with valid content. Your ironic bus-to-a-new-bandwagon-by-regurgitating-the-obvious post didn't fit the criteria.

[AlmasterGM]

I claim plain old vanilla ice cream.

LOL. Have a nice day.

Unvote. Vote: hiphop

GO HAMMAR GO.

[AlmasterGM]

I'd totally be down with a CoCo vote. He needs to either die or post and then die, like, NOW.

[AlmasterGM]

But, really you haven't. Your entire case is your post nine (in isolation), which is hard to take seriously for a variety of reasons (which I would be happy to explain if I must.)

Please do explain.

[AlmasterGM]

Post 3: Self-proclaimed non-random vote on Peabody because he "annoys you."
Post 4: An affirmation that you are voting him for personal reasons.
Post 5: Saying you'd kill Peabody with DK powers for mispelling your name if you could.
Post 6: Saying you "don't like" Peabody and CoCo. Because we hadn't figured that out.
Post 8: Jumping on the Messiah bandwagon and prematurely asking for a claim, though reiterating once again that you don't like them.

Up until that point, your attacks on them were 100% personal in nature. You'd established from the get-go that you want them dead.

So what? I'm failing to see the scumtell here. Being jumpy and personal in the beginning of the game doesn't mean anything. Moreover, if you look at the context surrounding my posts, it isn't much better - Hoopla is changing her vote every other post, hiphop is posting random nonsense, and everyone else is either RVSing or hasn't said anything. I fail to see how my behavior is unique in any way, shape, or form. The only post that is possibly out of place is #6, but given that I clarify what that means when asked in #9 with what I believe to be perfectly acceptable justifications, that shouldn't be a strike against me.

Post 9 is bigger. The whole of your CoCo case in this post is that he's lurking and that he did something in a previous game that "annoyed you." If you want to lynch him because he's lurking, okay, that has its merits and is not a problem. Pretending that there's more to your case than that, however, is nonsense.

Would you rather me tunnel with some BS? I said I don't like him because of previous play and his lurking. There's no fabrication whatsoever - if anything, I'm being more straightforward than most people are with their suspicions.

Ironically, CoCo has

still said nothing,

so I'm totally clueless as to why you are arguing in favor of him and against me.

From minute 1 you were gunning at these guys, though you took a break to jump on the Messiah bandwagon when it started picking up steam (with no explanation except that you believed Hoopla) and again on the tail end of the hiphop bandwagon after a lengthy theory debate.

Given Hoopla's strong encouragement and softclaim, I saw no reason not to throw her the bone. If she's right, we win, if she's not, she'll have lots of explaining to do. Also, given that my dislike of CoCo and Peabody wasn't going anywhere, it was clearly time to move on to new possibilities.

Keep in mind, I think a lurker lynch is a viable option for us. Pushing a lurker lynch is not scummy. Pushing a lurker lynch and pretending it's something else, however, is.

Once again, when I have ever pretended my votes were more than they were? I've made it very clear up front what my intentions are.

In case you're wondering why I'm bothering to spend so many words on this, I think your voting history is suspect given the day's flip. Messiah became a very convenient vote when Hoopla gambited, and you followed the leader without even bothering to give any reasons of your own. When hiphop started to come under fire, you gave a vague "liking hiphop less and less by the post" (perhaps laying the groundwork for a later accusation without actually explaining anything?) then eventually argued with him about theory for a bit before hammering. A hammer does not impress me. It was obvious where the bandwagon was headed, and for someone who will vote based on so little and claim it's a solid case, I found it odd that you would scuffle with hiphop so much (easily the most active period of Day 1 for you) without casting a vote until the last possible minute.

So don't give me any town cred for the hammer. Where's the scumtell? If it's that there was "no case," how is that unique to me in any way? Doesn't it also apply to every single person on the hiphop wagon?

I'm not voting?

vote: AlmasterGM .

Funny.

[AlmasterGM]

You've pretended that you actually considered the game and made a case on them

When have I ever pretended anything? I've been 100% clear about my biases.

For instance, you've explicitly stated that CoCo is scum. You're really, seriously, 100% sure a person is scum because they pissed you off in another game and are lurking?

I've already answered this.

Does this happen to you every game? Next game, will you vote for me this one?

I'll do it every game. You aren't on the list of people I don't like, so no, I won't vote for you.

The problem is, all you're doing is dragging some childish, petty grudge from previous games into this one. You're not scumhunting. You're trying to settle a score.

Yeah, because there was SO MUCH scumhunting going on in the first four pages.

Now, the hilarity of this is that your attacks on CoCo and Peabody have almost nothing to do with why I think you're scummy. I think it's early for a lurker lynch, but who knows, hitting scum there is possible. I think your behavior towards them is anti-town and obnoxious, but not necessarily a scumtell. The bigger issue for me is your voting record, which you did not have much of an answer to. To recap, you jumped on the very convenient Messiah wagon despite being oh-so-sure that CoCo was scum and then, the big one, you refused to vote hiphop until the last possible second despite the fact that, in every other case so far, it has taken virtually (or literally) nothing to for you to vote someone.

I've already stated that I was never ACTUALLY 100% sure CoCo was scum and gave a reason for acting that way. If you plan to take that statement seriously, go ahead, but it's not going to help you make any progress. I've explained my Messiah vote. The only thing left you can harp on is my hiphop vote, which basically means you're saying "hammering scum is a scumtell." This makes no sense whatsoever. If you don't give me town points, that's fine, but I don't see how it should take them away.

This is justifying scumminess by pointing fingers everywhere else.

False - I'm not trying to cross-apply the argument, I'm trying to discredit it.

Wait, what? You just gave up on who you thought was mafia? Just because a vote isn't popular doesn't mean you shouldn't push a case against them. Your wording: new possibilities... it looks like you are discounting your former suspicions. Are you?

Not at all. CoCo

hasn't posted since October 12th

- I'm not happy with him at all. However, It's actually more replacement time at this point than it is lynch point. All I'm saying is that a singular vote doesn't do anything - if nobody else agrees with me on CoCo, I'm going to stop yelling into the wind about it and talk about some other things.

Sorry for not posting a whole lot guys. Currently, I think the charlatan and alamaster back and forth is intriguing, and based on yesterday's wagon, I would think that either Alamaster or milkshake is scum because they were the last ones on the bandwagon!

I don't like this post at all.

Unvote: Vote: Sposh.

[AlmasterGM]

I'll have some reasons on who I think is scummy in a bit, but for now, I'll just concede the charlatan and Messiah cases.

[AlmasterGM]

I'll have some reasons on who I think is scummy in a bit, but for now, I'll just concede the charlatan and Messiah cases.

The ones against you?

Yeah.

[AlmasterGM]

Hey guys, sorry for the lurk. Just did a re-read and am currently going to

Confirm Vote: Sposh.

There are 9 reasons for this.

1) hiphop said a lot of things and talked to and about a lot of people. There is one person, however, he avoided talking to and about - Sposh. He only responds Sposh twice, and both posts about extremely trivial matters, almost as if the conversation was forced.

2) hiphop passively defended Sposh.

What does Sposh have to do with anything?

Why did you vote for Sposh?

3) Play at the beginning was odd and extremely coincidental. It's more likely than not that the 2nd post was fabricated.

I suggest a healthy birthday bandwagon on Hoopla instead >

Vote: Hoopla for using a dice roll!

4) Obsessed with Messiah lynch. Gives no reason except he "jumped on CoCo's post."

I really think Messiah is a good lynch for today! Thought it would be nice to see the encrypted information too.

5) Over-the-top reaction to D1 lynch result.

Whoooo yeah we got that scum! *dances*

6) Rolefishes.

The no kill is incredibly odd. Either we've got a town RB or a town Doc, I think. Question: would it be advisable for them to claim with their night action so we can automatically get rid of another scum?

7) Noob card.

I don't see why my idea was so bad! I mean, sure, we'd have a townie roleblocker or doctor out in the open, but we'd also be down one more scum. Surely that's worth something, right?

8) Votes for me based on something that I've been doing for the entire game because it suddenly affects him.

I will Vote: Alamaster because he voted me without even thinking about it or explaining it. It just seemed like a way to get the attention off of himself and onto me.

9) His entire posting attitude doesn't add up. His profile says he's 20 years old, but he uses exclamation points like a small child who just got candy for Halloween. It seems as though he is forcing this happy-go-lucky feel. I don't like it.

One thing I realize, however, is that I currently have zero town cred and am at L-2. I'm going to claim vanilla town. If you don't buy it, I don't really mind dying - just remember my case on D3 when the intent behind it is verified as authentic.

Current suspicion list:

SCUM

Sposh
CoCo
Messiah
Peabody
CooLDoG
Empking
milkshake
Hoopla
NewAgeWarrior

charlatan

- I am very hesitant to put this guy down here. He oozes town, but his play is so good it's almost

too

good. Be careful of letting him run the show. He could be very, very dangerous scum.
AlmasterGM

TOWN

[AlmasterGM]

agm why the heck did you put yourself onto your scum list? good case but too much lurk for me... your ideas on empking agm, I cinda want to know them, for my master plan of case building!

I simply copied the playerlist and arranged it in order of scum to town. As far as the case goes, I think it's dumb to not evaluate it because you think I lurked (look at the case, not the presenter), but whatever - lynch me, then look at it when you know it's true. As far as Empking goes, I still have a neutral opinion of him.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh, and Almaster, did you mean to quote Sposh?

Yeah, my bad. For all the quotes except the first two, those are Sposh quotes, not hiphop.

[AlmasterGM]

I've already conceded two cases on me - a small self-indicit is a relatively small addition to my rap sheet. I don't expect to live significantly longer in this game - if I don't die this round, I'll certainly be off at some point in the near future. I'm just trying to be helpful before that time comes. Odd, I know, but if you look at my play history, I'm actually not a bad person.

[AlmasterGM]

More votes on Sposh, please. His responses to my case are awful.

[AlmasterGM]

More votes on Sposh, please. His responses to my case are awful.

Care to back this up with facts?

Sure.

Fact #1: Half of your answers are completely non-responsive.
Fact #2: The other half are terrible. They are either a) scumtells in and of themselves, or b) terribad.

Satisfied?

[AlmasterGM]

No.

Why don't you just try responding to each of my arguments again. We can proceed from there.

[AlmasterGM]

btw, that case will be posted on the weekend. Either tomorrow or Sat.

This is really redundant because we should by lynching Sposh right now, but ok.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't like the meta on AGM ether but I want press, and they already forced a claim out of him. One thing: on the whole empking-agm deal is this

once I got him to L-1 he jumped off and voted me with a bad case, thus putting AGM at l-2 and not letting a town come in and hammer. This gets me because if both AGM and EMPking were scum they would do the exact same thing as I just descriped. If AGM was indeed town then why the hell would empking pull off a l-1 lynch?

I don't like the vibes I get from AGM or from Empking. I am just not sure, but I do know that I would prefer a Empking lynch over an AGM. But I don't want to take off the press and end up looking bad if empking turns town...

But I think that I want at the moment to:

unvote AGm, revote Empking

the meta on AGM didn't look good ether.

WTF? Are we even playing the same game? You don't seem to know what is going on AT ALL, both in terms of strategy and physical who-is-doing-what.

I'd be down with either a Cooldog or Sposh lynch at this point.

[AlmasterGM]

Al: Give us two responses from Sposh to your case and tell us why they're scummy.

Here, you can have lots of responses.

I cannot help what hiphop does. How is that my fault??

Appeal to ignore relevant facts.

See above.

See above.

I think I said that, not hiphop.

Nonresponsive.

I SAID THAT...NOT HIPHOP!! And I don't think I was obsessed with it.

1) Nonresponsive, 2) no warrant.

Do you even know who you're targeting? I said that. And yes, I was happy and somewhat shocked that we actually got a bad guy on day one, since that really never happens from what I've seen!

This response just supercharges the original argument … he gets overexcited about everything.

That isn't rolefishing... I asked if it would be advisable because this is only my second game playing Mafia and I didn't know if it'd be bad.

1) Yes it is, 2) newb card.

God, apparently I'm not even allowed to ask questions in order to understand the game better!

Asking scummy questions is scummy.

But not when the pressure was on you.

Nonresponsive and nonsensical?

Well, if you don't like my exlamations points, then how about this?
Fuck you!
Because I type like this all the time, and I'm a happy person in real life. Sorry I'm not so super duper serial about mafia like you.

This just magnifies my previous argument by 1000x … talk about getting super-duper-serial and overly defensive.

[AlmasterGM]

@AlmasterGM: Explain your D1 vote timing. It looks a bit opportunistic.

1) I'm late on the two vote series you chose to analyze. I've placed other early votes. A mix seems like a wash to me.

2) The table is slightly misleading because it doesn't take real time into account. Although I'm technically "late" onto the Messiah bandwagon, I got on almost immediately after Hoopla asked for more Messiah votes with the promise of additional information later. Given this intent, it seems unfair to hold me responsible because others were literally faster than I was.

3) hiphop dug his own grave as time went on. I wasn't going to switch early because I was still happy with my previous votes. When it become pretty obvious, I hammered.

4) I'm not convinced of your presumption that being late on bandwagons is even a scumtell. What's the justification for this?

=====

I don't see how I can be getting suspicion for something hiphop does... especially when it's the mafia's job to create confusion and suspicion on the wrong people!

charlatan has already explained this. We aren't going to ignore data just because you can't answer it. In any case, your explanation is dumb ... it's highly unlikely hiphop didn't talk about you in a ploy to "spread misinformation." That would require quite a bit of cunning that I'm not sure hiphop possesses.

What do you mean no warrant?

warrant: justification or authority for an action, belief, or feeling : there is no warrant for this assumption.

So am I really not allowed to ask an honest question without getting blamed for it?

No. Scummy suggestions and questions are scummy. Besides, we don't even know that your question was legitimate - you could be dropping the newb card to cover up your rolefish.

Kay

What?

Overly defensive? Try not attacking me personally next time, asshole.

Your attacks have been way more personal than mine. At least I had some analysis behind my exclamation point argument (which is TRUE, by the way). You just randomly name call and toss around curse words.

[AlmasterGM]

This game is stagnating - we have votes all over the place, and nobody seems to be interested in budging. Those who are not feeling fully confident about their current votes should make better use of them.

@Moderator: What is the deadline for Day 2?

[AlmasterGM]

I still like my vote where it is. I also still wouldn't mind a CoolDoG lynch, though.

[AlmasterGM]

I think the best lynch for today is Messiah.

Why?

[AlmasterGM]

@AlmasterGM: Did you miss my 522?

Yeah, sorry. I don't really know what to add, though. This char-milkshake back and forth isn't really doing anything for me. I still like my Sposh vote. I'd hammer CoolDoG if he was at L-1 as well, though. Nobody else is really doing anything, which I want to find suspicious, but I can't because everyone is acting that way, including me. IMO, we should just move forward with a lynch on one of our current two candidates and see what happens tomorrow.

[AlmasterGM]

Mmmm....stagnation.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't like how Sposh has used disappearing as a tactic to get rid of the wagon on him.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't like how Sposh has used disappearing as a tactic to get rid of the wagon on him.

Could you dignify my allegations that you and Empking are Mafia with a response/rebuttal? I don't mean to hassle you, a simple "You're wrong" would suffice, too. Thnx!

Your allegation is just an assertion, so how am I supposed to respond? I guess a counter-assertion of "no" works, but it hardly even seems worth saying to me.

[AlmasterGM]

I just read the case on Empking, and I don't get it at all. If I'm on the right page, it's something along the lines of

- You weren't on the HipHop Wagon
- Before my vote, both you and CoolDog were tied for the lynch and usually when this happens, from my experience, and Mafia don't take advantage of it, one of the candidates are Mafia. I picked you over CoolDog because of your absence on HipHop's wagon.

I don't see the damning evidence here at all - I think Sposh is WAY scummier. I don't like his lack of contributions or disappearance, and I don't think his behavior is going to change. HOWEVER, I agree with everyone else that we need a lynch, and the deadline is waaaay to far away for my liking - I'll switch to Empking if it becomes necessary.

[AlmasterGM]

Can we lynch Sposh now?

Yes please. While I did appreciate your early Christmas present, Hoops, I totally agree with the flavor point.

[AlmasterGM]

unvote
vote empking

@Almaster & Peabody: One of us has to be right

Yeah, I don't get this either.

[AlmasterGM]

unvote CooLDog

Whoa whoa whoa!! That wagon turned around really fast. Although I do believe cooldog is mafia, I want to see his defense. Oh yeah, and half the people who voted never made a case...

I will revote CooLDoG after these people actually make a case, and CooLDoG responds. The wagon gets crazy when people just willy-nilly jump on it.

Hoopla, what is your case? You are just gonna jump on the wagon and say claimtime?

Sposh... your case??

Yeah, no. This day has gone on long enough, and CoolDoG hasn't exactly been the best poster ever. We need pressure on him. Your move is not pro-town.

[AlmasterGM]

More pressure on Sposh would be great as well. CooLDoG, Looker, and milkshake - your votes should be on one of these two.

[AlmasterGM]

My qualm is that the wagon happened so fast, not that I don't think CooLDoG is mafia. I'm pretty convinced he is, but the fact that 2 or 3 people jumped on with out any explained reasoning really bothers me.

How does that justify an unvote of CoolDoG? We can grill the people who jumped on the wagon whenever (now or later). At this stage of the game, you should be voting for people who you think are mafia, not using your vote as a policy mechanism.

[AlmasterGM]

SORRY THAT I HAVE NOT POSTED!

ok I like to clame at l-2, which I am at now. I clame The purest vanilla ice cream you ever had in your life.

vanilla town

Nothing more nothing less. Lynch me and go one down, don't and maybe hit a scum.

LOL. Have a nice day.

Unvote. Vote: CooLDoG

GO HAMMAR GO.

[AlmasterGM]

Hahahaha, if CoolDoG flips scum, you're going to be in a bit of trouble, Peabody.

He's actually in trouble regardless of whether or not CoolDoG flips scum.

But wouldn't that take three people to verify? Couldn't both Empking and Milk be corroborating with each other? This is all post-lynch speculation, though, of course. Let's see the verdict.

I'll verify it.

[AlmasterGM]

Why didn't you include flavor in your claim Almaster?

It just didn't occur to me to do so.

[AlmasterGM]

Re: Howard Roark

1) Lurking - No. See Peabody for an example of actual lurking.

2) Bad args - needs more analysis. You can't just be like "oh, those are bad args, your scummy."

3) Manipulation of hiphop wagon -

4) Didn't mention NAW lurking - and you didn't mention Peabody's lurking. So what?

5) Explain hammers - I said multiple times on D2 that I would vote CD. hiphop was scummy. Also, I like hammering.

I'll finish later. Meanwhile,

Vote: Peabody.

[AlmasterGM]

yeah that post was terrible I'm going to make a new one when I'm sober in the morning kthxbye.

[AlmasterGM]

* Lurking through most of D1 (especially the Hoopla gambit).

This argument has no uniqueness - lots of people were lurking, including, but not limited to, Peabody. Lurkers like Sposh flipped town. Moreover, I was quiet during the "Hoopla gambit" because I was on board with it and had nothing else to say. I also don't even think I was that silent - I did a fair bit of talking on D1, and plenty on D2.

Here are your comments on the two: 35, 106, 172, 174, 209. Not much in the way of "legitimate arguments" for either of them being scum.

Yeah, so I'm starting to sense a repeat of the same arguments people made against me yesterday. First, just because every post I make that references them isn't content-loaded doesn't mean some of them are. At the point where I gave reasons as to why I suspected them both, I don't see why I am being indicted for this. Second, even if my posts weren't of A+ quality, they weren't comparatively worse than the other posts surrounding them - what other options did we have, Hoopla's softclaim? Finally, why is this a scumtell?

Gently positioning yourself on the hiphop wagon without furthering it.

First, how does this relate to my 275 that you quoted? Second, obviously the hammer isn't going to "further the wagon" … it ends it.

* Why no focus on NewAgeWarrior's lack of participation?

I felt that, compared to the other lurkers, NAW had made decent contributions in the early game … so I wasn't as quick to hound him. Nobody else really focused on him either. Not seeing the tell here.

(With a vote on Sposh.) Why is Messiah scummier Peabody? You hadn't mentioned him. Also, NewAgeWarrior is third towniest without reason.

I don't remember, that list was posted awhile ago. Re NAW: I didn't give reasons for more than half of them, so why are you singling him out?

You also claim "vanilla town" at L-2.

So?

* You drop a lot of AtE in your posts.

Needs evidence.

Not sure why you are picking out CooLDoG when there are three others (beside Sposh) scummier on your list.

This is a clear misunderstanding of how a scumlist functions. It's not a vote-order, it's a general scale. If I could only vote for people at the top of the list without being scummy, then my vote would be forced onto the first person at all times. There's no reason why I can't agree to vote CoolDoG.

* You are very active when you are under pressure D2, but once it subsides, you begin to disappear again.

I never disappeared - I continually reasserted that I was still fine with my Sposh case. The game was stagnating at that point, so there wasn't much else for me (or anyone) to do.

Unvote.

I still don't like Peabody. I'd hammer Looker right now, but that'd probably cause a massive uproar, so I won't.

[AlmasterGM]

Note: Replacements did not receive the original role titles, nor were they informed about them.

When I replaced into this game my role PM included the flavored and standard role name.

Seconded.

Response to other posts coming later.

[AlmasterGM]

Is this vote based on lurking, or is there more to it? There are better reasons to vote Peabody today than lurking, especially since nobody is lurking too badly in this game anymore.

Read my new post. I admit the last one was bad.

I find it very odd, for instance, that you would hammer based on a plain vanilla townie claim when you claimed in exactly the same fashion (minus the "ice cream" part.) You said it "did not occur to you" to include your previous flavor when you claimed, but were happy to "verify it" (in a way, kind of artificially claiming it after the fact) for Looker. If you had said you thought it game-breaking or kind of uncool to include your old flavor, I could have gotten behind that. Because, in all honesty, I found it to be both of those things (nothing personal, Empking) -- but you didn't. I find it unlikely that you would just forget something that could very easily confirm you to other vanilla townies.

It honestly didn't occur to me. Seriously, how often do you think about the official title of your role (which you were told to disregard, BTW) when playing a Mini?

My point is that you didn't give any solid reasons for wanting them lynched.

We've been over this. I gave reasons. If you think they were insufficient, there's nothing I can do about that.

While you were tossing out, "Hey let's lynch Peabody because he is annoying," you were also giving us, "liking hiphop less and less." That's gently positioning . . . hammer or not.

Ok.

Because you don't really interact not comment on him.

Selective analysis - I also don't interact with other people lower on my list as well. Moreover, interaction naturally correlates with people you think are more scummy.

Take a look at my post 675. Answer that. Then tell me why you felt the need to claim at L-2 without being asked. (Psssst. That's generally a scum tell.)

It simply didn't occur to me. If you don't believe me, that's fine, but I don't think it's that unintuitive of a statement. As far as the claim at L-2, I don't think it's scummy and I want theoretical justifications for your accusation.

No PM reply yet just wanted to know what Hoopla and Almaster think of the situation and whether their thoughts are strong enough to place a vote (on whomever, of course).

I think it's lynch-worthy.

[AlmasterGM]

Sorry for the flake; will post as soon as possible.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh man, could it be true? It's what I've been waiting for this entire game...

The chance to hammer Peabody.

The temptation is literally overwhelming. There's no claim, but I don't care. I want blood. I NEED blood. Blood for the blood god. Mmmmmmmmmm...STOP. HAMMER TIME.

Somebody please unvote because I don't think I can resist much longer. Seriously. And Peabody, if you're going to claim, it'd better not be "plain old vanilla ice cream."

Anyway, I really like Hoopla's theory and want to roll with it. I also like another theory that I have which I am going to keep to myself for now. I also think we can all agree that Looker's record over the course of the game hasn't been at all clear (I'm not going to rehash it unless people want me to).

Vote: Looker.

[AlmasterGM]

intentionally unbolded for you paranoid types

Can you quote the last clear and concise post you made that actually said something useful?

[AlmasterGM]

What evidence do you find in games of mafia? Every scumtell you've ever used is based on guess work to some degree, and a leap of logic about psychology. I'm trying to articulate a gut read I have on you which I'm finding hard to do. It is a combination of process of elimination and wagon positions.

This made me LOL.

Can we lynch Looker now?

[AlmasterGM]

Would you like to lynch charlatan with me?

It's not on the top of my priority list, but if I can't have Looker, I'd be down with that.

[AlmasterGM]

Peabody & Almaster. I understand that I was wrong about Empking; however, if Milkshake's out of the picture when I'm done with, reconsider Peabody & Almaster.

RE: Clear & Concise Posts - I don't think I really have to. Naah, I don't have to.

So, if you die, we're supposed to fight ourselves to the death? Thanks, but no thanks.

RE: RE: Clear & Concise Posts - Actually, you really have to.

[AlmasterGM]

While a fight to the death would be interesting, I was thinking more along the lines of a re-evaluation.

RE: RE: RE: Clear & Concise Posts - No, I checked, I

don't

have to. "It is simply preferred".

Or more along the lines of, "I know Almaster hates Peabody, so lets get him distracted by telling him to focus on Peabody so my scumbuddy (charlatan?) can fly under the radar.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Clear & Concise Posts - So you're deliberately being anti-town?

[AlmasterGM]

Naah, it's dun.

unvote vote looker

omg you better not flip town.

[AlmasterGM]

Awww.... Go Town! lmao

shut the fuck up you are an idiot.

[AlmasterGM]

Dead players are allowed

one

"Bah" post with no game-related material.

Indeed.
AlmasterGM, I hope you don't mind my editing this post. Nothing in it needs to be shared or repeated.

[AlmasterGM]

@Mod - No, I certainly don't mind.

It appears that, once again, we have an excellent doctor at work. I ran a scenario of the doctor claiming him and his save to see where it would leave us. It would have worked great if we had 7 people, but since we only have 6, it's a bad idea. Here's why:

Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5
Player 6

Doctor claims himself plus save - two options eliminated

Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5 - CLEARED
Player 6 - DOCTOR

We lynch one uncleared. Mafia kills doctor.

Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 5 - CLEARED

We lynch one uncleared. Mafia kills cleared.

Player 1
Player 2

Game over. As you can see, a doctor claim does not garner us any substantial advantage. We are much better of simply hoping they can save again. Currently, however, we are on a two round clock, so we don't have too much breathing room.

Why am I posting this? Because I already ran the scenario and don't want my time to go to waste.

[AlmasterGM]

What if we clear Milkshake along with the person the mafia attacked last night? We already know Milkshake is cleared as confirmed townie:

Player 1 -
Player 2 -
Player 3 -
Player 4 - CLEARED (Being milkshake of course)
Player 5 - CLEARED
Player 6 - Doctor

This improves our chances, but it still doesn't win us the game. Things would turn out like this:

Player 1
Player 2
Player 4 - CLEARED
Player 5 - CLEARED

Which does narrow our options, but it's still a 50/50 in lylo, not a game over.

A better idea to toy with is we organise a lynch as normal, but when we decide who that is, if the doctor has protected that person, or that person is the doctor they should claim. If nobody claims we assume whoever is being lynched isn't confirmed, but we still protect the identity of the doctor. Thoughts?

I like this if the doctor is going to be lynched, but not if it's just the person they protected. That just gives us the scenario I outlined above which, as I explained, isn't all that awesome. I think we're better off hoping for another save than we are giving ourselves that little extra percentage. This is my personal feeling, though, not science, and it's largely based off the fact that, of all the 3-4 player lylo's I've seen, the majority have been won by mafia.

[AlmasterGM]

But if we mislynch, scum just need a correct kill to win. The doctor has a very slim chance of catching that, when it can be any townie. We're best off trying to improve our chances of lynching today as much as possible.

Eh, you're right. OK.

[AlmasterGM]

Doc might even be able to clear a couple people maybe. (Possible, although unlikely... but in that scenario we would have the mafia identified 100%). Important note though, if we're going to "organize a lynch as normal," don't get it up to L-1, because mafia could profit from a wayward hammer, I believe?

So if that's the case, how are we going to procede with organizing a lynch as normal.

I really like my opinion that Messiah and Peabody are scum. Unfortunately with so little hard information at my disposal (lots of soft information) Hooplah, charlatan, AGM could all be scum concievably. I just like Messiah and Peabody.

Alternate account fail.

[AlmasterGM]

Also it is concievable that there's something other than a plain doctor going on.

True, it could also be a roleblocker, in which case there would be zero additional information.

[AlmasterGM]

Also it is concievable that there's something other than a plain doctor going on.

True, it could also be a roleblocker, in which case there would be zero additional information.

Actually, nevermind because if that was the case we would know who the mafia was and it would be game over.

[AlmasterGM]

For one, AlmasterGM is almost certainly the scummiest living player.

Why?

Hm, this would make alot of sense for you to say this if you are scum with peabody.

I completely agree with this.

[AlmasterGM]

I already claimed so I have no opinion on whether or not a massclaim occurs. I vote charlatan goes first.

[AlmasterGM]

I already claimed so I have no opinion on whether or not a massclaim occurs. I vote charlatan goes first.

You agree that it should be a massclaim minus the doctor though, right - and if we have one they should just claim as regular town?

Yes.

[AlmasterGM]

Charlatan, the game is completely different if there is two scum, rather than three. The mentality of a 2-player scumteam is about survival because your partner being lynched (especially Day 1) drastically reduces your chance to win. Scum teams are more likely to bus when they have a third player. And I am really struggling to believe we could possibly be in a 3:9 set-up.

Meh. In my first newbie I bussed and hammered my partner D1 and won.

[AlmasterGM]

Charlatan, the game is completely different if there is two scum, rather than three. The mentality of a 2-player scumteam is about survival because your partner being lynched (especially Day 1) drastically reduces your chance to win. Scum teams are more likely to bus when they have a third player. And I am really struggling to believe we could possibly be in a 3:9 set-up.

Meh. In my first newbie I bussed and hammered my partner D1 and won.

2:7 is completely different from 2:10 - especially when you consider the set-up is already known. You cannot know in a closed set-up that it is 2:10 before you bus.

True. So are we lynching Messiah?

[AlmasterGM]

If it's a vanilla claim, can I do the honors please?

[AlmasterGM]

I'm vanilla, hammer away.

LOL. Have a nice day.

Vote: Messiah.

GO HAMMAR GO.

[AlmasterGM]

I TOLD YOU PEABODY WAS SCUM.

[AlmasterGM]

Almaster made me actually laugh out loud at multiple points.

lol, where? Glad I could be of comedic value.