Mini 837 - Stratego Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Gorrad]

EB? You're pretty much confirmed. Scum would have to be stupid to not kill you tonight.

[AlmasterGM]

Frankly, Almaster, given that your claim contradicts Sajin's role I'm going to say that you're probably the scum here.

Given that you also share the number of the deceased, I don't see how you can use this as an argument. Do you really think I look more scummy play-wise?

[AlmasterGM]

Why would we decide today? That just informs the scum exactly who not to kill. At least make them guess a little.

It's pretty obvious this is between Vaya and I ... seriously doubt the scum would take out one of us in favor of Gorrad or yourself.

Speaking of which ... where IS Vaya?

[ElectricBadger]

Speaking of which ... where IS Vaya?

This I can agree with.

@Charter - Please prod Vaya; hasn't posted yet today.

[charter]

Vote Count

No Lynch - 2 (ElectricBadger, AlmasterGM)
AlmasterGM - 1 (Gorrad)

Not Voting

Vaya


With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

Deadline is October 22nd, midnight.

Vaya has been prodded.

[Gorrad]

Frankly, Almaster, given that your claim contradicts Sajin's role I'm going to say that you're probably the scum here.

Given that you also share the number of the deceased, I don't see how you can use this as an argument. Do you really think I look more scummy play-wise?

My ROLE (though not alignment) is the same as the role of the mafia deceased (though it seems said mafia had a touch more information as to what said ability does).

Besides, as I said. If the rest of you will so kindly assume I'm town, we have:
Town Miner Gorrad
Mafia Miner Synx
Town Major Hoopla
Mafia Major WLC
Town Lieutenant Sajin
???????

Now what goes in the blank, given that you have claimed Lieutenant?

[AlmasterGM]

I think somebody made that argument at the very beginning of the game, and the response people agreed with was it's way too predictable. If the setup could be determined just looking at numbers, an early massclaim would solve.

And you still haven't answered my question. Lynching on non-verifable patterns alone seems like a terrible idea.

[Vaya]

What Gorrad points out here is a nice observation. Between that, and the cop claim which doesn't make sense considering how much investigative power that would mean the town would have, if I wasn't sure enough before, I'm certain now that Almaster is scum.

Vote: AlmasterGM

About no lynching, I agree with Gorrad's position 100%. All no lynching would do for us is get our obvious townie killed off. It wouldn't increase our odds of lynching scum any because EB's not even a candidate for being lynched. So I encourage EB to hammer today, assuming that he agrees Almaster is scum.

@Almaster
You are right that we shouldn't lynch based off of a pattern we can't prove alone, but your not cleared by any means because it would be too obvious or we can't prove it either.

You're wrong that an early massclaim would break the game though because we wouldn't have any way of knowing that all scum pieces counterpart town pieces. Also, if we did somehow eventually figure it out, we wouldn't know which of the duplicate pieces were the scum.

Really, the idea that scum pieces counterpart town pieces makes plenty of sense to me. And it's already been shown to be the case once already, twice if you want to assume Gorrad is town, which I now believe is the case. And no town pieces have been shown to be duplicates of other town pieces either.

[ElectricBadger]

Sigh. Was trying not to have to state this explicitly, but it seems I have to -

I was not disarmed last night.

/confirm No Lynch.

[Vaya]

Are you sure you would have been told if you were?

[ElectricBadger]

Why wouldn't I be? It seems weird that I would lose my role without my knowledge.

In any case, options:
I'm disarmed and NK'd - we're no worse off.
I'm not disarmed and NK'd - town wins.
Someone else is NK'd - one less suspect. Unless the scum has serious balls, this is the most likely outcome.

There's no downside to waiting, and it may give us some benefit.

[AlmasterGM]

the cop claim which doesn't make sense considering how much investigative power that would mean the town would have, if I wasn't sure enough before, I'm certain now that Almaster is scum.

Here are the town roles we have:

Kast, SPY - Tracker
Hoopla, MAJOR - 7 - Town Vigilante
ortolan, SERGEANT - 4 - Jack of all trades
(Gorrad, MINER - 3) - Diffuser
(AlmasterGM, LIEUTENANT - 5) - Cop

Given that we have a Bomb who can blow up our PR's and no protective role, this is NOT that high powered of a town - in fact, it's pretty much a standard setup for Minis. I don't see how you can say there's "too many investigative roles." That's just false.

You are right that we shouldn't lynch based off of a pattern we can't prove alone, but your not cleared by any means because it would be too obvious or we can't prove it either.

You say this, yet this thread is severely lacking any sort of case against me. You and Gorrad are voting for me based on a crappy process of elimination. You haven't showed in any way how I'm scum.

You're wrong that an early massclaim would break the game though because we wouldn't have any way of knowing that all scum pieces counterpart town pieces. Also, if we did somehow eventually figure it out, we wouldn't know which of the duplicate pieces were the scum.

It would be too easy of a theory to test. 1) Everyone claims 2) kill two people with the same number 3) realize one is scum 4) extend the pattern, easy town victory. It's been established: the numbers don't mean anything.

About no lynching, I agree with Gorrad's position 100%. All no lynching would do for us is get our obvious townie killed off. It wouldn't increase our odds of lynching scum any because EB's not even a candidate for being lynched. So I encourage EB to hammer today, assuming that he agrees Almaster is scum.

About no lynching, I agree with EB 100%. There is no reason not to get rid of a player. Gorrad, I no longer trust you. Your unwillingness to go into D5 makes me wonder if maybe you are scum scared of what people will think if you aren't NK'd. Vaya, you have completely blown what I presumed was a town trick to try and get the final mafia to lynch an active EB and cause their death. I don't care how "confirmed" Gorrad/EB are - there's simply no reason we should take a risk.

I maintain my no lynch vote. Unless EB changes his mind, we're going into D5.

[ElectricBadger]

I maintain my no lynch vote. Unless EB changes his mind, we're going into D5.

Not unless I hear a reason that we'll be better off. So far I've heard none, and Almaster is the only one acting like town today. Somebody else go No Lynch, if I die tonight it only takes two posts to lynch almaster tomorrow - which is less than it takes to keep debating this.

[Gorrad]

Fine.

Unvote, Vote: No Lynch

.

But tomorrow, I /totally/ told you so.

And EB? It says specifically in my role that /I/ am not told if my role succeeded or failed. It stands to reason that you wouldn't either.

[charter]

Vote Count

No Lynch - 3 (ElectricBadger, AlmasterGM, Gorrad)

AlmasterGM - 1 (Vaya)

Not Voting

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

No Lynch day four!

Night deadline is 48 hours, if someone needs the additional 24 hours, pm me and it will be extended.

[charter]

Gorrad, MINER - 3, - Town Diffuser removed from the board night four!

It is day five! Three alive means two to lynch. Deadline is October 29th. Also, please keep in mind the site is supposed to change servers, so might lose a few days for that.

[ElectricBadger]

Fine.

But tomorrow, I /totally/ told you so.

*Eats yummy yummy crow*

Vote Almaster

[AlmasterGM]

Game over, EB. I'm town.

I'm a little disappointed with the way this game ended. Did any of you even go back and do a re-read of the thread? I suppose I'm biased, but I think Vaya looked way more scummy than I did. I thought the fact that WLC tried to bus to me was a pretty strong town tell in my favor, and I don't see why Vaya hasn't taken heavy criticism for jumping around a lot and lurking. Your focus on reducing the endgame to numbers (e.g., I share a number with the deceased and there's probably not a cop) killed us.

I had a good time, though, so good game to all. Will discuss the setup afterwards.

[AlmasterGM]

God, I seriously can't believe Vaya is going to win. She lurked the ENTIRE GAME.

[ElectricBadger]

I re-read, yeah.

If you think it's Vaya, state your case. I'm not seeing much, other than lurking, and you haven't voiced suspicions until she was among the last players standing.

As for you...I've had suspicions for a while. And you're the nexus of too many troubling coincidences. A unique town-town pairing (when there's a number unclaimed) and the first to claim it (and eagerly), a potentially overpowered role that has managed to provide no assistance at all, and I can't entirely ignore the conclusions of confirmed townies.

[AlmasterGM]

I re-read, yeah.

If you think it's Vaya, state your case.

Only if you unvote. I'm not writing a case so Vaya can come in and ninja me minutes afterwards.

If you aren't going to be convinced no matter what, though, just let me know and I won't waste the time.

[ElectricBadger]

/unvote

Although I imagine he'd have killed you by now if he were on; no reason to wait.

[Vaya]

Vote: AlmasterGM

I don't see why Vaya hasn't taken heavy criticism for jumping around a lot and lurking.

Show how I've been jumping around a lot this game. Yes, I've been lurky, but this has pretty much been so in all of my games lately and has nothing to do with my alignment here.

Also, as EB pointed out, if you felt my play was so scummy, why didn't you speak any suspicion of me(or Hoopla for that matter) until after we were being talked about as possible lynches?

[AlmasterGM]

Limited access will post sometime this weekend.

[charter]

Everyone should note this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12392