Mini 873 Plainview Game Over

[MordyS]

I agree with this assertion. Cop should investigate who he finds suspicious and tell us tomorrow.

[archaebob]

Actually, I'll respond to one point, regarding foilist:

Yes, I did post that link to his meta, but I don't think that was a defense. At most, it was a warning of caution, which finished off by stating that I'd still be totally down to lynch foilist.

But let's entertain this hypothesis, I'm curious to know that your theory is.

I'm scum, foilist is scum, I make a big show of going after him, knowing all along that I can ultimately link his meta, giving me the excuse I need to back off his wagon before he gets lynched. So what do I do now? I...go and make a big case connecting my scum-buddy to another player who I know to be town (peanutman), further arguing that we can learn about the alignment of that player who I know to be town if we lynch my scumbuddy. Right. Then, at a certain point, AGM claims doc. And what's my response? Why, it's simple! I do

everything in my power

to derail the wagon on the doctor, instead pushing as hard as I can to move everyone over to my scum buddy! Brilliant!

Is this your current theory? I just want to make sure I fully understand your position.

[MordyS]

Nope. I don't have a theory. Just speculating about a possible link, so when you flip scum we remember to look back at this moment where you defended foilist13 and he returned the favor. It's not some grand theory. Just noting something curious.

Sleep well, dude.

[AlmasterGM]

I really do think that we probably shouldn't even be talking about the investigation.

I agree with this assertion. Cop should investigate who he finds suspicious and tell us tomorrow.

This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Yes, let's minimize town coordination in a game of uninformed majority vs informed minority! That'll get us the win! Not to mention the fact that (no offense intended) Peanutman's cop strategy last night wasn't exactly stellar, so leaving it totally up to him again might not produce A+ results.

[MordyS]

Eh. In my experience it's not a good idea to try and direct cop investigations. That's maybe a conversation for a theory thread tho. If you disagree, I guess feel free to direct it. Personally, tho, I think it's a bad town move. (I guess if you really wanna have that conversation we could have it here -- but I almost feel like this thread is congested enough.)

[AlmasterGM]

Do you think Sanjay's attempt to shy a cop investigation away from himself is scummy?

[MordyS]

On the town/scum coin, it's scum. But it's not terribly scummy (I can see a number of circumstances where a town would try the same thing). So more scum than town, but honestly not enough of either to give me goosebumps.

[Sanjay]

Suck it.

[Sanjay]

Nah, I'm just kidding, you're cool, Pikachu.

[MordyS]

So while I've got you guys here, is it just me or is archaebob reacting kinda hysterically to being attacked? Rather badly, I'd say.

[archaebob]

Oh, and btw, my vote is definitely that the cop investigate Sanjay. I cannot even describe to you how much that would help me in this game, to know for sure one way or the other what his alignment is. If you pay attention to my positions, all my wacky flip-flopping back and forth has been mostly a result of my getting a strong scummy gut read on Sanjay, and trying to come up with ways that he could be scum, despite the fact that I'm lacking in hard evidence. If one could remove that element from the game, I think it's reasonable for me to claim that I could become a very strong pro-town contributor again.

@ MordyS and Sanjay - why does what the cop think trump what the town thinks is best?

@ MordyS - you never commented seriously on either of my cases against Sanjay. I'm dropping the Chinaman vs. Muffin argument, but I'm wondering as to whether you agree with any of my points against him.

In fact, I just went through your iso, putting Sanjay in the "find" box in my browser, and looking at when you've mentioned him, and I didn't notice you EVER seriously giving an opinion on him. In fact...practically every you addressed him it was to engage in some bit of banter, or to gently inform him that he was making some minor mistake.

[AlmasterGM]

I just got a PM back from Benmage. I will NOT be informed if my protection attempt is unsuccessful.

[MordyS]

Because the cop is the guy with the role and there are various problems introduced when "town" tries to direct the cop. I'll reread your case, but that Chinaman vs. Muffin argument was inane nonsense. And I've attacked Sanjay + IIRC Chinaman. An example:

Sanjay, do you mind me asking how carefully you've read the thread so far? I understand it's long and there's a lot of dense posts, but I'm getting the impression that you're trying to play catch-up by asking old questions anew and pretending that you're uncovering something fresh.

I guess this is gently informing him of making some minor mistake? (Sarcasm.) Your approach to being attacked, btw, (trying to attack me with whatever dirt you can think up) isn't effective. Try to defend yourself and attack people you legitimately believe are scummy. Stop trying to discredit me. Or at least find something good to discredit me with. Your cases are a waste of time.

[AlmasterGM]

Yo, can we do another last minute wagon, except this time onto archaebob?

[Sanjay]

So while I've got you guys here, is it just me or is archaebob reacting kinda hysterically to being attacked? Rather badly, I'd say.

I understand his objections to your points.

I don't understand his suspicion of you based on those objections.

[foilist13]

I'm going to go read this iso.

@Archaebob, did you read Sanjay in iso as well? Is he just as shy about mentioning MordyS?

[Sanjay]

Because the cop is the guy with the role and there are various problems introduced when "town" tries to direct the cop.

Basically the quote marks illustrate one of my objections.

My other objection is that if the mafia know who is being investigated, if they have a role like a busdriver or a framer or something that's seriously bad news bears.

[archaebob]

Stop trying to discredit me. Or at least find something good to discredit me with. Your cases are a waste of time.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. Hope you can forgive me for my rudeness.

So while I've got you guys here, is it just me or is archaebob reacting kinda hysterically to being attacked? Rather badly, I'd say.

Mind explaining this one? Or will you only pursue this if someone else does in fact confirm that it's not "just you"?

[MordyS]

I tried to read archaebob's cases on Sanjay, but totally didn't get them. Can you explain the thing about Sanjay knowing foilist13 was scum because he knew Sanjay was town and therefore because he didn't vote foilist13 that means he's also scum? Cause that case made my brain explode.

[MordyS]

Mind explaining this one? Or will you only pursue this if someone else does in fact confirm that it's not "just you"?

What am I explaining? Why I asked other players to confirm my read of you? Because I did. Any other reason I have is none of your business. As far as pursuing it -- I'm voting for you already and pushing for your lynch. I think I'm kinda committed to archaebob-scum at the moment.

[archaebob]

@ MordyS -

You are explaining why you think my reaction to you is hysterical, rather badly you'd say.

I don't see anything particularly confusing about my case, Mordy. I suggest you go back and reread the end of Day 1, if you would like the context. I know I write coherently, and I haven't seen anyone else complain about my case being incomprehensible. In fact, you haven't made any complaint about it either. If my case made your head explode, why didn't you mention it when you first read it?

[Sanjay]

So while I've got you guys here, is it just me or is archaebob reacting kinda hysterically to being attacked? Rather badly, I'd say.

I understand his objections to your points.

I don't understand his suspicion of you based on those objections.

Could you address this, archaebob?

[archaebob]

@ Foilist -

Sanjay attacked Mordy exactly once in the thread, for what he at the time thought was a bad argument against AGM. You should go read it, it's eerily similar to the tone that he used in his similar fake attack on Gambor Day 1 of Newbie 846.

But that's just me being paranoid.

Sanjay's relationship with Mordy is a null-tell, as far as I'm concerned, but it definitely pinges my gut as being very possibly a scummy one. I encourage everyone to pay attention to this.

[Sanjay]

I distanced Gambor so hard he quit the game.

[MordyS]

In fact, you haven't made any complaint about it either. If my case made your head explode, why didn't you mention it when you first read it?

Because I didn't pay much attention to it the first time you posted it. I glanced over it, it wasn't compelling, and since my attention was elsewhere I didn't follow up on it. I'll spell out why it's dumbassery tho. The crux of the case is that Sanjay easily should've realized foilist13 was scum because foilist13 "knew" Sanjay was town and only scum could know that. Of course you ignored the possibilities that, a) foilist didn't "know" Sanjay was town, but had a town read on him, b) he did "know" Sanjay was town, but Sanjay didn't realize he "knew" it and assumed he had a town read on him. That's why it made my head explode.

You are explaining why you think my reaction to you is hysterical, rather badly you'd say.

Oh, okay. Because when I attacked you, instead of deftly defending yourself you basically decided I was Public Enemy #1 (even being aware you were at risk at OMGUS'ing, you mentioned that this wasn't that), and started attacking me with improbable cases. I discussed Sanjay/Chinaman about as much as I did other people. There isn't a notable difference in the amount I dealt with him and, say, PhaerieM, Gammagooey, Papa Zito or SpyreX. I've actually talked about him and attacked him more than a few people. And he's certainly mentioned me often. For you to bring this up to explain (in your mind, I guess) how I would dare attack you strikes me as illogical and hysterical. This is the same in a number of your other attacks. I don't mind being attacked, but you're going about it very poorly. It makes me think you're scrambling, and while town has been known to scramble, it's often a good indication of scum.

Btw: I asked Benmage about the doc/block thing, he said he couldn't tell me. So -- make of that what ye shall.