Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

rite
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Post Post #225  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:13 am

mod: request replacement

Vala Mal Doran
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Post Post #226  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:36 am

Oops! I am here, I have just been lurking, paying more attention to what everyone else is saying and not really focused on making posts of my own.

I'd like to see whether Drake ends up being replaced or not, but if anything the absenteeism counts as more points against him. If he is reading, he should note that and act accordingly.
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.

Vala Mal Doran
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Post Post #227  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:39 am

EBWOP: What do people think of shooting Sarag D1 instead if Drake should happen to come back and actually post something towny?

Also, this is a note that I have the next two days off work, and while much of that time I will probably be distracted by my shiny new Wii, I will likely have the time to come in here and do some re-reading, pbpas, isos, something like that. Anyone under pressure right now would do well to be active during that time. 8-)
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.

Sarag
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Post Post #228  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:09 am

To be absolutely clear, I am not subtly trying to get rite lynched. I honestly don't see why people think he is scum. So... Let's have a closer look at the back-and-forth between rite and ortolan and see if I can make my position clearer.

Ortolan said of rite's post 26 (in which he answered Vala's question by claiming to have lurked in the past as both roles):
ortolan 91 wrote:Town players don't want to give information like this so that they can be evaluated "fairly", they want to convince others that they're town. It looks like he is going out of his way to appear "honest" rather than acting how a townie actually would- trying to convince people that they're town.

This I disagree with, I don't think there's anything scummy in the way rite answered the question. Lurking is anti-town. But if he has done it in the past, should he lie about it? No. His coming across as trying to be honest is because he is admitting to an anti-town meta. It's a null tell.

Then we have:
rite 120 wrote:Also, you first say you associate newb scum with being "defensive," then say you associate them with giving out information so they can be "evaulated 'fairly'". I don't understand; these two appear to be at odds.

This is a misrepresentation of ortolan's argument, which ortolan corrects in post 125.

However, I think it's possible that what I call a misrepresentation was an honest mistake, so I'm far from damning rite at this stage. While I disagree with ortolan's case (on rite and also on DoS), making such cases is pro-town, as it generates discussion and involves people. And finally, I called it nitpicking because I think the discussion kept going when it was no longer useful, and it was originally about some behaviour of relatively minor interest in the first place.
*twitches*

Xylthixlm
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Post Post #229  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:20 am

When I said "Waffle harder" I didn't actually mean it literally.

How about telling us whether you think rite and/or ortolan is scum?
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi

Slicey
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Post Post #230  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:19 pm

sorry i haven't posted in a while, I've been really busy with finals coming up. I really need to read this game fully, which I can hopefully do soon.
Taking a temporary retirement from playing mafia games... damn you invitationals.
Coming in Summer 2010: Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Mafia. The most nonsensical game of mafia you'll ever play.
Note: V/LA most weekends, sorry.

Elmo
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Post Post #231  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:58 pm

Looking for a DraketheFake replacement.
HackerHuck replaces rite. Thanks!

The deadline is Wednesday 16th December, 22:00 UTC which is 8 days, 2 hours and 1 minute from this post.
Succinctness is pro-town.

Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford

Vala Mal Doran
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Post Post #232  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:48 pm

Well, that was a fast replacement.

Hacker, I hope you catch up soon.
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.

Vala Mal Doran
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Post Post #233  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:04 pm

Also, after doing a quick reread of a few people I suspect, I've decided to let rite off the hook for the time being. That said, Hacker would do well to contribute sooner rather than later.
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.

HackerHuck
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Post Post #234  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:05 pm

This one isn't too long, so I should have a post within the next twelve hours.

I guess there's no need to unvote either :)

Yosarian2
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Post Post #235  (ISO)  » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:59 pm

Vala Mal Doran wrote:EBWOP: What do people think of shooting Sarag D1 instead if Drake should happen to come back and actually post something towny?


Sarag look suspicious, but at this moment, I'd rather see either Drake or Bogre dead.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie

HackerHuck
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Post Post #236  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:03 am

I think this will be my first time playing with Yos. I’m pretty sure that I've been scum with DoS before and I played once before with Xyl. I’ve probably played with Bogre the most, but the thoughts that come to mind are: scum, lurker. All the others are new to me, but it's nice to see a few familiar faces.

One main point I need to make is that this is not a game where voting out an anti-town player is almost as good as voting out scum. If you “vote” out a town player who doesn’t act in our best interest, you’ve just handing him the gun.
Another point about the ruleset – we never should reach deadline. If you’ve got the gun and you can’t decide who to shoot at deadline, pick the first name on the list that hasn’t been gunbearer yet. If you’re wrong, it’s no different than if we hit deadline, but at least you have a random chance of hitting scum. I’d also like to point out that it’s in [i]everyone’s[/i] best interest to avoid being targeted.

I've read through the thread, but I've just got a few comments right now. Given the activity requirements of this game, I think it's better to avoid walls of text on replacing.

If it were my job to fire the gun right now, it would be pointed squarely at Ortolan.

I don’t really care for any part of his post 91. He makes interesting observations about Rite and Bogre, but I’m curious where he got his insight. I noticed later that he seems to make a meta case on someone based on a single game he played with them. Later in post 125 he really just dismisses all arguments against him without explaining why they’re invalid. It’s like he’s just pulling the jedi mind trick - "I'm not the scum you're looking for".

Bogre’s my second, but I think he's a bad target if we're wrong. He might do a decent job at finding scum as the shooter, but he'd need to take his sights off of me and Xyl before I'd feel really comfortable risking that. It's not so much that I don't think he's really scummy, it's that being wrong about Bogre would be like killing two townies.

I’m not seeing the general scumvibe on DraketheSnake that everyone else is. It seems more to me that he doesn’t have a proper understanding of the mechanics. Are you all really arguing that he’s scum trying to convince townies that they should try to get the gun pointed on themselves? Yes, I understand that’s what the scum are thinking, but verbalising is a sign of scum who can’t maintain an inner dialogue.

My last comment is directed at Vala. I think you're in an ideal situation as gunbearer to hunt for scum. While it's probably smart to keep your true intentions somewhat private, you're in a good position to do some indirect scumhunting. Since you're confirmed, there's no danger in you trying some unique tactics to gauge the reactions of others. I would urge you to fight the tendency to sit back and watch, which seems to happen with the kingmaker type roles.

ortolan
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Post Post #237  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:06 am

Bogre’s my second, but I think he's a bad target if we're wrong. He might do a decent job at finding scum as the shooter, but he'd need to take his sights off of me and Xyl before I'd feel really comfortable risking that. It's not so much that I don't think he's really scummy, it's that being wrong about Bogre would be like killing two townies.


QFS
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Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

Xylthixlm
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Post Post #238  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:13 am

HackerHuck wrote:Bogre’s my second, but I think he's a bad target if we're wrong. He might do a decent job at finding scum as the shooter, but he'd need to take his sights off of me and Xyl before I'd feel really comfortable risking that. It's not so much that I don't think he's really scummy, it's that being wrong about Bogre would be like killing two townies.

Stop right there. Thinking this way is opening yourself up to manipulation by the scum. Don't.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi

ortolan
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Post Post #239  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:17 am

And why are you so sure he's town Xyl? I wouldn't be too happy getting shot by Bogre if I was scum either. Just because it's an obv-scum-tell doesn't mean it's not a scum-tell.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

Xylthixlm
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Post Post #240  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:24 am

HackerHuck wrote:My last comment is directed at Vala. I think you're in an ideal situation as gunbearer to hunt for scum. While it's probably smart to keep your true intentions somewhat private, you're in a good position to do some indirect scumhunting. Since you're confirmed, there's no danger in you trying some unique tactics to gauge the reactions of others. I would urge you to fight the tendency to sit back and watch, which seems to happen with the kingmaker type roles.

This.

I tried to say something like this early on, but it apparently didn't sink in the way I meant.

The gunbearer should be active. Gunbearer, nobody is in a better position to help the town than you are. Keep involved in the game, as involved as anyone else - because you are the person who has to make a decision, and if you're not involved you're going to make a bad decision. If the game seems to be slowing down, you should be the one getting it moving again. If you don't have anything else to say, ask questions. Don't count on anyone else to ask them for you. Nobody else knows what questions you want answered! But whatever you do, don't slack off and just wait for other people to talk. If you aren't talking, you're not thinking about what to say, and if you're not thinking about what to say you're not really thinking about the game, and if you're not really thinking about the game... well, that one's obvious.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi

Vala Mal Doran
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Post Post #241  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:29 am

I mostly want to see what Drake's replacement has to say; it will likely be the deciding factor.

HH brings up some interesting points on ort, but I'm not sure they're enough to warrant shooting him tonight when others have been more overtly scummy.

I'd like to take an official tally of everyone's top three suspects; knowing who everyone wanted dead will be helpful come day 2. I know many of you have stated who you wanted killed already, but others haven't, so if everyone wouldn't mind making a succinct top 3 list in their next post, that would be great. Be aware that I may be asking follow-up questions based on people's answers.

I think Zakeri is lurking again.
And as your mother, you will listen to me, young lady. There will be no leading of these ships and armies on a mass-murdering crusade. Or else.

ortolan
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Post Post #242  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:36 am

Hacker wrote:I don’t really care for any part of his post 91. He makes interesting observations about Rite and Bogre, but I’m curious where he got his insight. I noticed later that he seems to make a meta case on someone based on a single game he played with them. Later in post 125 he really just dismisses all arguments against him without explaining why they’re invalid. It’s like he’s just pulling the jedi mind trick - "I'm not the scum you're looking for".


I disagree that any of these are good attacks whatsoever. But then I would, wouldn't I.
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Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

ortolan
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Post Post #243  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am

more detail about why those actions described are scummy and less-Zakeri style allusions which don't actually mean anything e.g. "I'm not the scum you're looking for". Also metaing based on one game isn't scummy in and of itself. Making interesting observations about someone but you not knowing where my insight comes from is also not scummy. So unless you go into more detail I conclude u got nothin'
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

Xylthixlm
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Post Post #244  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:39 am

Top three suspects? DraketheFake, ortolan, Bogre. In that order.

Bonus 4th suspect (since there are 4 scum): Sarag.
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"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi

ortolan
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Post Post #245  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:17 am

drake isn't scum, I'm not scum, Hacker's last post makes me suspect he's worried about being shot by town-Bogre (not that Bogre's other posts haven't themselves been scummy).

Dunno about Sarag.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

DragonsofSummer
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Post Post #246  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:26 am

@Hacker: We were scum together in Board Game Mafia! Good to see you again!

My top 3: Drake, Ort, Bogre.
"I want you to hit me as hard as you can."
-Tyler Durden

ortolan
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Post Post #247  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:29 am

DoS wrote:@Hacker: We were scum together in Board Game Mafia! Good to see you again!


Distancing! :P
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

HowardRoark
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Post Post #248  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:34 am

Slicey still owes me some answers. DraketheFake is being replaced. So I'll move on.

Top 3? Zakeri, Bogre, Slicey/DraketheFake.
Help your fellow players by replacing into a game.

ortolan
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Post Post #249  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:04 am

oh wait...I was confused...HackerHuck replaced rite?

wow that's really, really, really really, really, really obv-scum right there. Please kill him. Seriously. He's scum.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529

Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.

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