Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

[ortolan]

Top 3? Zakeri, Bogre, Slicey/DraketheFake.

Can you tell me why you picked these players, and what the links between them are?

scumteam atm looks like: DoS, Hacker, Sarag, Zakeri

[HowardRoark]

I was going with the just name names and see reactions process. Here's a quick reply . . .

Zakeri: Lurktastic.

Borge: Scummy.

Slicey/DraketheFake: Gut.

Links are better once you have at least one dead.

. . . care to share concerning your list?

[HackerHuck]

drake isn't scum, I'm not scum, Hacker's last post makes me suspect he's worried about being shot by town-Bogre (not that Bogre's other posts haven't themselves been scummy).

Dunno about Sarag.

I'm obviously not worried about being shot by scum-Bogre. Nobody wants to get shot at here, so I don't know how that would be an indicator of alignment.

Are you now thinking that Bogre is scum? Weren't you of the opinion that Bogre is town?

[Vala Mal Doran]

Out of the main few suspicions listed so far, I only think Sarag, slicey, or rite/Hacker would do okay as gunbearers if they are town. Of those people I am currently most suspicious of Sarag, so he may end up being the shot for the day. I'd like more people to weigh in, though.

[Xylthixlm]

Out of the main few suspicions listed so far, I only think Sarag, slicey, or rite/Hacker would do okay as gunbearers if they are town. Of those people I am currently most suspicious of Sarag, so he may end up being the shot for the day. I'd like more people to weigh in, though.

So all the scum have to do to avoid getting shot is be vocal about a bunch of totally wrong suspicions?

Seriously, you are going down a very bad path here. Stop thinking about who would be a good gunbearer. Only consider who you think is scum.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Well, I should ideally find someone who is scummy AND would make at least a semi-decent gunbearer if town, at least day 1 when we have relatively little info. Heaven forbid I shoot town!Drake and then he never gets a replacement or something, though I guess the mod would have to intervene and give it to someone else or something.

[Vala Mal Doran]

And Sarag has been one of my suspicions for ages anyway.

[Xylthixlm]

Well, I should ideally find someone who is scummy AND would make at least a semi-decent gunbearer if town, at least day 1 when we have relatively little info.

No. You should find someone who is scummy, period.

Cast all thoughts of who would make a good gunbearer from your mind, and never think of them again.

[Xylthixlm]

In fact, trying to look like a horrible gunbearer is such an obvious scum strategy in this game that if anything you should try to shoot the person who looks like they'll be the

worst

gunbearer. They're probably scum.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Why don't you think it should factor in at all? If I shoot someone like, say, Zakeri, and they turn out to be town, won't they be even less active? Isn't that detrimental to town? Don't I have an obligation to, if I should shoot incorrectly, at least make sure town isn't screwed day 2?

[Xylthixlm]

Why don't you think it should factor in at all? If I shoot someone like, say, Zakeri, and they turn out to be town, won't they be even less active? Isn't that detrimental to town? Don't I have an obligation to, if I should shoot incorrectly, at least make sure town isn't screwed day 2?

Because you're not taking scum behavior account. Scum can easily make themselves look like bad gunbearers, so if you factor gunbearer quality into your thinking you give the scum an easy way to manipulate you, and the net result is that the town is worse off than if you ignored it entirely in the first place.

[Vala Mal Doran]

:/ Fair enough.

[ortolan]

Are you now thinking that Bogre is scum? Weren't you of the opinion that Bogre is town?

I thought he was null, then I thought he was scum, now I'm thinking he's town because of your concern about being shot by him.

Sarag or Hacker would be great picks imho

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, don't worry about who would or wouldn't make a good gun bearer.

In fact, if you think person X is likely to be scum, but are worried he'd make a bad gunbarer if you're wrong, then the right thing to do would be to shoot them early,instead of risking them becoming gunbarer on a later, more important day.

[Yosarian2]

drake isn't scum

You seem oddly certain about that, ortolan. Can you explain why you think that?

[ortolan]

Post 88 just reeks of him being town to me. Plus everyone's bandwagoning him based on real crap/no reasoning.

He doesn't fit in with who I think are the scumsss either.

The case that DraketheFake has mounted against me feels very much like clutching at straws, and like opportunistic bandwagoning (metaphorically of course, since there are no votes - but he followed a few others' accusations that felt more genuine to me). At the risk of being accused of OMGUS, small

FoS: DraketheFake

. If anyone actually cares, I will defend but I'd rather not waste everyone's time.

Everyone bar Sarag, DoS, Zakeri 'n' Hacker have acted substantively town, and they have acted substantively scummy. Start killin' these players and we can rap the game up, Vala.

[Vala Mal Doran]

In fact, if you think person X is likely to be scum, but are worried he'd make a bad gunbarer if you're wrong, then the right thing to do would be to shoot them early,instead of risking them becoming gunbarer on a later, more important day.

Good point.

I'd still like to hear from Drake's eventual replacement, Zakeri, Slicey, Bogre, and anyone else who hasn't weighed in recently.

[Zakeri]

I think Zakeri is lurking again.

I don't lurk. I just watch LPs

My top three have only slightly changed - Ort, Bogre, and Drake. Drake edged out over Rite mostly because rite had a replacement.

Also metaing based on one game isn't scummy in and of itself.

It's still bad play, dipping into a test sample of one pool for something as fickle as meta.

Zakeri style allusions which don't actually mean anything

I call slander until you actually pull up these "allusions" and describe how they don't mean anything. I believe I've tried my best to explain why I think your route of attack on DoS is poor and likely scum based.

Zakeri: Lurktastic.

I lurk equally in all games, no matter my alignment. More so if those games are running at the same time.

I agree on worrying about future gunbearers in that you really shouldn't let it affect your decision of who's scum or not. It's pretty much as bad as going straight for the Village Idiot day one. On a semi-related note, I would make an AWESOME gunbearer. (links to previously completed on-site game)

[ortolan]

I call slander until you actually pull up these "allusions" and describe how they don't mean anything. I believe I've tried my best to explain why I think your route of attack on DoS is poor and likely scum based.

Remember the whole "gotcha" discussion where I said that "gotcha" attacks are the same things as psychological scum-tells, and therefore not scummy at all? I do. Were there any other points you raised against me? I don't believe so.

[Slicey]

Page 4:
- Drake's post is full of waffling and indecisiveness. He says he doesn't want to shoot Bogre because then he would shoot rite. Dude, if you think someone is scum, you have to get rid of them. Basically, it looked like Drake was calling Bogre scummy as hell but not actually calling him scum. Defending and attacking someone in the same post is scummy. Definite connection here.
- Don't like ort's reads on Bogre and rite. He gives no examples of Bogre's play, or what exactly of his play constitutes a null tell. And I have a gut town read on rite, and his case on him is really weak. Being honest is not a scumtell. Kind of agree with the DoS read, definitely would not call him obvious scum after just that one post though.
- Ort, are you saying you think Xyl is town in 94, or are you saying he's faking he's aggressive town meta?
- Bogre thinks he knows the definition of anti-town. You forget that anti-town also means self preservation instead of trying to win. You're anti-town because you are too worried about staying alive instead of trying to help your team.

Page 5
- Yos as of Post 104, did you think Bogre was scum or not? You didn't really give a stance on him.
- Fair enough on both points I made against you. I just don't like that Bogre even asked you the question. I don't think you really should have answered it, because then it gives him a way out. Slight scumtell for you, big scumtell for Bogre. And I had a feeling it was sarcasm, just wasn't sure. However, I don't like your attitude towards Bogre. You seem wishy-washy on him. And I don't really even see Drake's case against you, so the fact that you're worried about it is surprising, and even pretty scummy. Also worried about OMGUS, which town really shouldn't be.
- Agree with Drake's post. Sarag is kinda worried about it, it seems.
- Sarag, why do you want to focus on other players when we have a very likely scum (and even you kinda think so) in Bogre. Trying to shift the focus on someone else?
- Bogre seems to be distancing from Sarag.
- Love rite's 120. Absolutely love it. Take my point back on ort's point on DoS being good.

Page 6
- ort, Sarag seems to be attacking and defending Bogre at the same time. He says he's done scummy things but doesn't call him scum. Then he shifts the focus onto Drake. Also, I can definitely see a link between the two of them. Why is it scummy that Xyl thinks so too?
- Ort raises a good point against Zakeri. I completely disagree with ort's attack against DoS's wording, but ort did catch Zakeri using the same tactic that she was scrutinizing him for.

Scum list as of now: Bogre, Sarag, Drake, one of our lurkers (Vaya/Zakeri)

More to come later...

[ortolan]

It's still bad play, dipping into a test sample of one pool for something as fickle as meta.

Not at all. I've seen people try to draw meta from 10 different games and because they're n00b @ mafia the meta they have derived is crap and useless anyway. Quality, not quantity. If you work out behaviour that people genuinely have difficulty changing, then it's going to be effective regardless of where it's drawn from (bear in mind I don't even remember who I apparently meta'ed at this point). Noobs are still gonna read 10 different games and say "omg, Zakeri, in 9/10 of your town games your average post length is 3 lines long, in your scum game your average post length was 5 lines long. You have one 6-line post in this game

Vote: Zakeri

"

Slicey: I don't think Xyl is scum. Merely wrong.

[Bogre]

drake isn't scum, I'm not scum, Hacker's last post makes me suspect he's worried about being shot by town-Bogre (not that Bogre's other posts haven't themselves been scummy).

Dunno about Sarag.

I'm obviously not worried about being shot by scum-Bogre. Nobody wants to get shot at here, so I don't know how that would be an indicator of alignment.

Are you now thinking that Bogre is scum? Weren't you of the opinion that Bogre is town?

I believe his post he's saying I'm town, but that the general consensus is that I was playing badly by focusing on your predecessors' scumminess, and so might be shot. He's saying that your worried that since I'll then get the gun, I'll shoot you.

You're misrepresenting him.

[Bogre]

- Bogre thinks he knows the definition of anti-town. You forget that anti-town also means self preservation instead of trying to win. You're anti-town because you are too worried about staying alive instead of trying to help your team.

You obviously haven't been reading carefully. I have hardly played 'worrying about staying alive'. You are suggesting the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I have been saying.

[Yosarian2]

Page 5
- Yos as of Post 104, did you think Bogre was scum or not? You didn't really give a stance on him.

Well, yeah. As I said earlier:

Bogre is pretty clearly in the wrong here. i don't know if it makes him scum or not, but he's defiantly not making sense.

I then spent quite a while in a back and fourth with him to try to figure that out.

By that point, though, I was becoming increasinly suspicious of him, especally after he ignored everything I said and just kept attacking Rite anyway. And then he pretty much just stopped posting for a while, and basically posted very little in the way of content from Nov. 26-today, which means i'd be pretty happy seeing him shot right now.

- Fair enough on both points I made against you. I just don't like that Bogre even asked you the question. I don't think you really should have answered it, because then it gives him a way out. Slight scumtell for you, big scumtell for Bogre. And I had a feeling it was sarcasm, just wasn't sure. However, I don't like your attitude towards Bogre. You seem wishy-washy on him. And I don't really even see Drake's case against you, so the fact that you're worried about it is surprising, and even pretty scummy. Also worried about OMGUS, which town really shouldn't be.

Who is this all directed towards? Rite, correct?

[Bogre]

That would be because I still felt rite was scum. So you've been getting suspicious of me for not being convinced by your opinions. Welp, I think your opinions are wrong about him.

Nothing he (or Hackerhuck) has done has made me think he's anything more than noobscum.