Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

[Zakeri]

I call slander until you actually pull up these "allusions" and describe how they don't mean anything. I believe I've tried my best to explain why I think your route of attack on DoS is poor and likely scum based.

Remember the whole "gotcha" discussion where I said that "gotcha" attacks are the same things as psychological scum-tells, and therefore not scummy at all? I do. Were there any other points you raised against me? I don't believe so.

I remember that discussion as well. I don't know if it's because I'm not that good at wording my thoughts, but you ignored the point. The point being that you took a few things DoS had said imprinted a scummy line of thinking behind it, rather than the proper way of evaluating whether he would say something like that as town vs. as scum. You then somehow twisted my wording into saying you were psycho-analyzing him which isn't scummy. I agree it's not, but that's not what I was accusing you of.

I've seen people try to draw meta from 10 different games [and fail horribly]

If one person can draw meta from ten different games and fail, what makes you think you can draw from a single game and be on the ball?

A better counterpoint to that would be the whole practical use of scientific experimenting. In order to do a decent experiment, you must be able to test for one, single variable - the alignment - and see it's effect on a different, dependent variable - The player's meta. Not even counting other possible varables that affect meta, you have to run at least two experiments - the control group where all variables are natural, and the experemental group where the variable we want to switch is switched.

tl;dr version: It's impossible to tell a person's meta from a single game because it's impossible to know what changes based on alignment.

[Yosarian2]

That would be because I still felt rite was scum. So you've been getting suspicious of me for not being convinced by your opinions. Welp, I think your opinions are wrong about him.

No, I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with me. I did think it was rather suspicious that when you misread rite's post, and I explained to you why you were wrong about his post, you pretty much ignored everything I said and just kept suspecting rite without feeling the need to either defend your attack on him or come up with some new reason to attack him.

If you were a townie actually trying to find scum, I'd think you'd be much more interested in trying to figure out if your opinion on him was correct or not, and if you thought you were right, also in trying to explain to others why you were right and they were wrong. It didn't seem like you cared at all if you were correct about him or not, and that is a scumtell.

[Vala Mal Doran]

I still need top 3 lists from Sarag, Bogre, and Drake's eventual replacement. Hacker needs to give me a third suspect and confirm that his suspects from his replace-in post have not changed.

[Slicey]

- Fair enough on both points I made against you. I just don't like that Bogre even asked you the question. I don't think you really should have answered it, because then it gives him a way out. Slight scumtell for you, big scumtell for Bogre. And I had a feeling it was sarcasm, just wasn't sure. However, I don't like your attitude towards Bogre. You seem wishy-washy on him. And I don't really even see Drake's case against you, so the fact that you're worried about it is surprising, and even pretty scummy. Also worried about OMGUS, which town really shouldn't be.

Who is this all directed towards? Rite, correct?

Oops, my bad. Sarag, actually. I gave reasons why he may be scum, he addressed them.

[Xylthixlm]

Scum list as of now: Bogre, Sarag, Drake, one of our lurkers (Vaya/Zakeri)

Go reread the stuff that led up to this post, then read that post again, then look at ort's relation with the other three players you named, then come back and tell me he's not scum.

[HowardRoark]

I think Zakeri is lurking again.

I don't lurk.
{snip}

Zakeri: Lurktastic.

I lurk equally in all games, no matter my alignment.

Contradiction, no?

Ort, Bogre, and Drake. Drake edged out over Rite mostly because rite had a replacement.

So . . . a replacement and the prior play means nothing? . . . no thoughts on the replacement?

More to come later...

Keep biding your time.

[Zakeri]

It looks like a contradiction to people who like to misrepresent other people's words, but it's not. Both of those quotes were meant to show that I don't do scummy active lurking, I just do regular inactive lurking.

The prior play between Rite and Drake is equal to me. Rite wins because he has someone still talking for him.

Also, No solid opinion on Huck as of yet. I agree with a lot of what he said in his catch up, but there's nothing in there that sticks out to me.

[HackerHuck]

...Hacker's last post makes me suspect he's worried about being shot by town-Bogre (not that Bogre's other posts haven't themselves been scummy).

Are you now thinking that Bogre is scum? Weren't you of the opinion that Bogre is town?

Bogre - Please explain to me how I'm misrepresenting him. He made a statement that implies you are acting scummy. I'm asking whether he thinks that means you're scummy.

I haven't seen anything posted since I replaced in that has changed my mind about Ortolan or Bogre. I'll have to go back and look for a third suspect, because I'm not really feeling the suspicion on Drake and I don't recall why Sarag would be scummy.

I do want to clarify something on my comments regarding not wanting Bogre to get the gun. I agree with Yos that a truly bad gunbearer should be killed sooner rather than later, and that someone's aptitude for being a gunbearer really isn't a reason not to shoot someone. Overall I don't think that town Bogre would be a bad gunbearer, but I feel that he's too focused on me and Xyl. He's still in my top two, but it's enough of a reason for me to drop him below Ortolan.

[Yosarian2]

That's..actually kind of a scummy reason, HH. "I don't want X to get shot today because he'll become gunbarer and then shoot me" is exactly what scum would likely be thinking in that situation.

[Bogre]

You were ignoring his actual statement and responding to something else entirely: he was saying that you were afraid I would shoot you if I became the gunbearer.

Overall I don't think that town Bogre would be a bad gunbearer, but I feel that he's too focused on me and Xyl.

This is why your scum. I don't recall ever mentioning Xyl, or been focusing on him at all.

[Xylthixlm]

You mentioned me at least once:

Possible scumteam of rite and Xyl?

I think yes

HackerHuck bringing it up is curious, though.

[Bogre]

Ah, so I did. I remember that was my :eyeroll, chuckle: response to your scum-pairings, heh.

Why are you worried and defensive about that, Hackerhuck?

[ortolan]

because Hacker is trying to implicate a townie along with himself

[Elmo]

rewq455 replaces DraketheFake. Thanks!

The

deadline

is Wednesday 16th December, 22:00 UTC, which is 5 days, 22 hours and 29 minutes from this post.

[Sarag]

It'll be a few hours before I can catch up on the replacements and post. But my top three are DraketheFake, Bogre and um.. I don't know maybe Yosarian2 or DragonsofSummer.

I don't really have a good third candidate. Yosarian2 keeps sliding under my radar and seems to be playing very reactively, DragonsofSummer only really responded to ortolan's attacks and then went back into hiding.

I'm reading town on Slicey, ortolan and Xylthixlm.

Neutral on rite. I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy, but nor has he seemed pro-town.

[Yosarian2]

I don't really have a good third candidate. Yosarian2 keeps sliding under my radar and seems to be playing very reactively

...

what?

I've been very active, and quite agressivly scumhunting the entire game. I haven't been "reactive" at all, other people have been forced to react to my attacks. Including you.

So what the heck are you talking about?

[Vala Mal Doran]

@Bogre:

I still need a succinct and overt scumlist from you ASAP. Stop beating around the bush.

[Bogre]

Rite, Drake, zalurkeri

[Bogre]

^Hackerhuck, if you will.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm pretty sure Yos is town.

[rewq455]

Just replaced. Will post over the weekend.

[HackerHuck]

In this order:
Ortolan, Bogre, Sarag

After rereading it looks like I just took Bogre's initial scumpairing comment about Xyl to be truthful and assumed that he kept with it. It does look like those arguments were oddly one-sided with Xyl attacking Bogre and Bogre not really saying anything about Xyl.

Yes, I suppose it could look scummy that I don't want to risk Bogre being town and shooting me, but that's going to be Vala's decision, not mine. I'm just honestly answering the question about who I would shoot and why. I added Sarag to the list because of his early behaviour regarding Bogre. I think slicey nailed it, when he called it out as coaching and the way he responded to Bogre's backtracking. I couldn't help but notice that after it was said that Ortolan wouldn't be defending his entire scumteam, that he changed his tune on Sarag.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Just waiting on rewq's list for now, and also what he has to say for himself/on Drake's behalf.

[HowardRoark]

It looks like a contradiction to people who like to misrepresent other people's words, but it's not. Both of those quotes were meant to show that I don't do scummy active lurking, I just do regular inactive lurking.

There's no misrepresentation when you did not state that specifically.

Yosarian2 keeps sliding under my radar

If he were truly sliding under the radar, then I would be worried about him.

[Slicey]

Page 7
- Agree with Zakeri's 153. Ort is trying to find all the little things wrong in DoS's post. Don't think it makes him scum necessarily, it's just that he's scumhunting VERY poorly IMHO.
- Vala, totally disagree with you. I don't think he was playing it too safe. I feel the same exact way. I'm pretty sure Bogre is scum, but as my other scum-reads, I'm nowhere near as certain.
- Yos, in 162, can you provide an example where a scumbuddy defended all or at least a majority of his scumbuddies for me?
- Drake's 166 was basically an excuse to post after Vala called him out on his lurking. Almost verbatim saying what Vala said (which is pretty wrong BTW). Also, he's basically saying what we shouldn't do: try and get the gun. Also suggests that town should lurk to avoid being shot. Maybe trying to find justification to lurking? This post is chock full of scum, and Drake has pushed himself up to the top of my scumlist.
-Thank you Xyl and Yos, for realizing how dumb Drake's idea was.
- ugh Drake is wrong wrong WRONG. He's basically saying town should give up if put under pressure. Not wanting to be shot is NOT a scum tell in the slightest. Town does not want to get shot because if they do then the gun bearer, a town dies. Also, Drake should read the quotes he posts. Vala wants the lurkers to post, not necessarily that she's suspicious of them.

Page 8
-Xyl and Yos are obviously right. >_>
-rite's 179 doesn't sit with me well. This:

I will say that if I were scum (which I'm not)

and this

*and yes, for the record, everything I've said previously about motivation stands. I want to defend myself from the chopping block because I don't want a townie to die, not because I've got a survival instinct.

don't sound right at all. Very very nervous sounding IMHO.
- Is it just me, or is DoS sitting back while Zakeri defends him from ort's (not very good) attack?
- Surprisingly enough, I really like Bogre's 185. Maybe I was just misinterpreting his posts. Or he's backpedaling, saying he was just not fearful when he actually kinda was. Oh, and rite isn't scum.
- ort, maybe it was a joke? You're looking way too far into this IMHO.
- Yos, I don't think it's particularly scummy that ort wants to see what our confirmed town is thinking. I honestly see no problem in that.
- Bogre, care to explain why that statement is scummy in 196?

Page 9
- In accordance with both these pages, definitely shoot Drake instead of rite.
-Howard, if you notice, I lurk Day 1, especially in the beginning (just like this game!) on Day 1. That's my playstyle, not an excuse. I hate Day 1 a lot.
- Quote from ort giving his opinion on Drake:

I'm also not sure what he'd have to gain as scum particularly by arguing what he is with Xyl. It's possible he's doing it to feign activity though

- Xyl, I still kinda agree with you on your list, but my gut is screaming that ort is town. He's definitely not playing his best game scumhunting wise IMHO, but bad scumhunting is better than none.
- Howard, I'm kinda neutral on DoS. I see a definite connection between him and Zakeri, and I

could

see them as scum together, but I'm very unsure on it. So neutral slightly leaning scum, only if Zakeri is scum as well.
- Sarag, are you saying that you agree with both Zakeri and ort in their argument? I have no idea what you're trying to say about the two of them. Whose side are you on? Also, you really didn't make any firm opinions on anyway. You

think

rite is town and you

think

Drake is scum, but you don't sound very sure.
- Nice catch on the waffling of Sarag, Xyl.

Page 10
- Vala, I'd much rather shoot Drake than Sarag. Personally, Drake seems much, MUCH more likely to be scum than Sarag.
- Sarag, I honestly can't tell whose side you're on in the ort/rite fiasco. This goes to show that you really don't have a firm stance on the matter at all. AKA Waffling
- Thank you Hacker, for reaffirming my gut town read on rite. Very sure this playerslot is town, even though he's wrong about Drake IMHO. And probably ort too. I personally don't believe those are scumtells.
- ort, I don't really understand how anything Hacker said makes him scum. Wrong does not equal scum. You should know.