Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!


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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:20 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

DragonsofSummer wrote:My short list:
Sarag
Almaster
Fixed. Today we absolutely need to hit scum. There's enough difference of opinion between the likely-town players on HH and HR that you shouldn't shoot either of them. Keep in mind that as long as you hit scum today, you can shoot someone who isn't totally guaranteed scum tomorrow without losing.
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:21 pm

Post by HackerHuck »

I'm not sure that your question really relates to me. It was Mae's lurking that had me reread Slicey and I wasn't thrilled with his response to the shot at Bogre. That's where the big inconsistency was, where Slicey acted like he already knew that Bogre would be town.

The other question is a bit odd. If you shoot me, that ends the game, so that alone is good enough not to kill me. Since everyone else would likely say the same, I'm not sure what you mean to accomplish with it. From your short list, I would pick either Howard or Alamaster. I'm actually wondering why you aren't considering Nacho.
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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:26 am

Post by ortolan »

DoS wrote:Ort are you saying you feel Yos is scum now?
He could be. I certainly wouldn't kill him today either way.

I reread Almaster and still think he has a high chance of being scum. I would still shoot Sarag number 1 though...frankly I find her posts unconvincing. I might meta her...brb
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:35 am

Post by ortolan »

Sarag (67) wrote:Why shouldn't she shoot me? Because I'm an active player, I try to keep my posts game-relevant, on topic and try to be clear about what's actually going on. As town, I will pay attention and make a good effort to scum hunt. As scum, I will leave a long paper trail.
My number one question is how you know that you will leave a long paper trail as scum.
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:46 am

Post by HowardRoark »

DragonsofSummer (698) wrote:HR are you really basing two of your cases on one post from each of the players, and the other on gut at this point in the game?
Those posts are the core of my reads on Sarag and HackerHuck. The Slicey read was mostly gut, and Maemuki hasn't done anything. With my limited access, that's all I can produce with quotes at this time.
You shouldn't shoot me because I am a townie who has been scum hunting.
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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:57 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Alamaster's still my top pick.

He hasn't been posting that often, or taking a strong side on anything. The only people he attacks or keeps on his top suspect list are people who are under heavy fire in the first place; he doesn't explain any of these reads and they change without warning or explanation. He finds ortolan as obvscum, but he completely fails to explain why...
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:11 pm

Post by Sarag »

Maemuki wrote:@ Sarag,
I thought rite was town
Haha - oh wait you're serious. Yeeeeeaaaaah, why?
He hadn't done anything particularly scummy, but kept getting attacked. I actually didn't have a strong town read even then, I just didn't see any evidence of scumminess until later.
Maemuki wrote:
She's playing like it's early game but it really isn't anymore.
Nooooo D3 isn't early game I never knew that. Pointing fingers without reasoning is bad.
If you actually read the sentence after the one you quoted, you'd see I did give a reason. Nice attempt to pretend I didn't though. Bad defense is bad. Here's what I actually said:
Sarag wrote:Maemuki's play, on the other hand, is weak. She's playing like it's early game but it really isn't anymore.
She asked questions on replacing in but instead of following through, has seemed to just flake.
Maemuki wrote:Even I can see that - and my vision is not that good. I said that we probrably shouldn't shoot DoS over a person, and guess who became the gunbearer?
Over whom? There's no clear alternative in that discussion. I still don't get this. What is it meant to imply? I can't see how this is anything but WIFOM.

--

Hmm, actually after reading HackerHuck's 689 I agree that AlmasterGM's turnaround on me does seem pretty scummy. Like he thought "hey - easy target!" (or "hey I'm going to help my scumbuddy push this case") and then when no one cared, he let it go. Some town points to HackerHuck for this find actually.
DragonsofSummer wrote:Sarag, besides your thinking Mae is "flaky" do you have any other reason to suspect her, and is that the only reason you switched from a strong town read on slicey to a scum read on Mae?
Pretty much just the flakiness. But that seems pretty scummy at this stage of the game. I can forgive it early, but not in lylo. Plus reading back slicey doesn't look as good to me now as he did at the time.
DragonsofSummer wrote:Ebwop: To those on my short list why shouldn't I shoot you?
You should shoot HowardRoark instead. I've made the case for that already.
ortolan wrote:My number one question is how you know that you will leave a long paper trail as scum.
This was right at the start of the game and I was simply saying I'm not going to lurk out and completely fail to facilitate reads.
*twitches*
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:25 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

Post coming now...
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:53 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

Sarag wrote:Why do you think this post is interesting?
Because it seems as if, in Mae's opinion, DoS would make the worst gunbearer. Then he was selected.
Xyl wrote:The following people are not getting shot today if DragonsofSummer has a whit of sense:

Xylthixlm
Yosarian2
ortolan
HowardRoark
I'm wondering where the 100% turnaround on ortolan came from. Sure, I agree that it would be odd for ort to pick DoS as gunbearer, but perhaps scumort simply predicted that DoS would be more cautious as gunbearer, as he just agreed to be. Also, there are three other scum in the game, not just ortolan, so playing around him exclusively would probably be difficult.
Nachomamma8 wrote:My top is Alamaster, but it's not a good idea to shoot a lurker today.

He hasn't been posting that often, or taking a strong side on anything. The only people he attacks or keeps on his top suspect list are people who are under heavy fire in the first place; he doesn't explain any of these reads and they change without warning or explanation. He finds ortolan as obvscum, but he completely fails to explain why…
Nachomamma8 wrote:Alamaster's still my top pick.

He hasn't been posting that often, or taking a strong side on anything. The only people he attacks or keeps on his top suspect list are people who are under heavy fire in the first place; he doesn't explain any of these reads and they change without warning or explanation. He finds ortolan as obvscum, but he completely fails to explain why…
Lovely turnaround.
Nachomamma: the biggest lurker here is Maemuki, who hasn't done anything readable. Alamaster has actually done enough to give me an okay read... namely, scum.
What is the basis for this read?
people wrote:You flip flopped and given no suspects, and when you did it was bad.
This accusation is simply false. I made my reasons for suspecting ortolan extremely clear: He was using a gambit town had no reason to use. My suspicions of HR seem like OMGUS because HR had suspected me, but keep in mind that half of those posts were responses to HR's attacks on me in the first place (which I had to respond to), and the other half were what I consider to be justified suspicions (HR was poking around and withholding information). I don't see where I have been playing inconsistent or poorly, minus my recent lack of posting.
DoS wrote:HowardRoark, Maemuki, AlmasterGM, Sarag, HackerHuck: I would like detailed explanations of the people on your scum lists with post numbers to back up your thinking (if the post numbers are in iso just let me know).
My top suspect is Maemukei. She played active-lurker-scum in the last game I played with her, and she is doing it again this game.
It is ridiculous to say I am lurking with her around.
I had a site-wide lull in posting because I was transitioning into my second semester. Mae has been here, but doing nothing. IMO, that is many degrees of magnitude worse. Go read her in ISO - here is what you will find:

0 - Says hi.
1 - Self-admitted old opinions, says she isn't sure if Xyl is town.
2 - Questions Xyl's leading of the town.
3 - Flips around on Xyl issue, but maintains previous opinion (e.g., iffy on Xyl).
4 - repeats someone else's questions.
5 - Says she hasn't done a full read.
6 - Tells someone not to answer questions.
7 - Tells someone to answer a question.
8 - More excuses for not posting
9 - Tells DoS to post more.
10 - Tells some other people to post more.
11 - Says that a non-posting gunbearer would be bad.
12 - Flip flops on DoS, commits to nothing
13 - Fluff

There has been ABSOlUTELY NOTHING in terms of suspects up to this point.

14 - Says we should shoot Sarag, gives no reasons why. (Read: obvbandwagon).
15 - Fluff
16 - Accuses me of gunbearer speculation.
17 - Suspects Sarag, HH, and HR. Gives NO reasons for any of them.
18 - Fluff.
19 - zomg REAL ANALYSIS. I don't even know what to say. Except it's OMGUS and came out of absolutely nowhere (e.g., she hasn't suspected me the whole game, but suddenly I'm buddies with Sarag. Wtf?)

t.l.;dr - you should shoot Maemuki today. She is playing active-lurker-scum to the max, which is consistent with her scum meta. This is significantly worse than my posting lull, which I intend to correct. She has given no justifications for any of her suspects until recently, and said explanation was one line long and terribad.

I'll have more suspects/town reads in my next post.

If I missed any questions, I apologize - please re-quote and I will respond. And sorry again for the posting delay.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:13 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

AlmasterGM wrote:I'm wondering where the 100% turnaround on ortolan came from. Sure, I agree that it would be odd for ort to pick DoS as gunbearer, but perhaps scumort simply predicted that DoS would be more cautious as gunbearer, as he just agreed to be. Also, there are three other scum in the game, not just ortolan, so playing around him exclusively would probably be difficult.
Where did this come from? My turnaround is not because the scum picked DoS.

Oh right, you're scum. I bet you were worried someone might make that argument, so you had a response prepared, and it would be a shame not to use it just because nobody used that argument.
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:18 pm

Post by AlmasterGM »

That thought wasn't responding to you per-se, it was just my thoughts on the ortolan situation.

Not that I actually like YOUR position on ortolan either. It basically goes, "ortolan was stupid as fuck yesterday, but because he agrees with me today and is hunting the same suspects I am, we should keep him around."

I disagree on the ort meta read. I played with him in Stratego mafia. He was town and did not play like an idiot.
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:25 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Alamaster GM wrote: Lovely turnaround.
Hmm? Last time I checked, you going from my top suspect to my top suspect wasn't that huge of a leap. And your suspicion of Maemuki just seems like a pitiful attempt to redirect suspicion from yourself: "Hey! Look at her! She posts even less than I do, guys!"
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:25 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Alamaster GM wrote: Lovely turnaround.
Hmm? Last time I checked, you going from my top suspect to my top suspect wasn't that huge of a leap. And your suspicion of Maemuki just seems like a pitiful attempt to redirect suspicion from yourself: "Hey! Look at her! She posts even less than I do, guys!"
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:07 pm

Post by Elmo »

DragonsofSummer, Yosarian2 & Maemuki have been prodded.

The
deadline
is Wednesday 27th January, 22:00 UTC, which is 6 days, 15 hours and 52 minutes from this post.
Succinctness is pro-town.

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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:48 pm

Post by DragonsofSummer »

Shoot AlmasterGM
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Post Post #715 (ISO) » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:36 pm

Post by ortolan »

I think that was a good choice
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Post Post #716 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:37 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

ortolan wrote:I think that was a good choice
(nods) I agree. And if Almaster is scum, we'll be in a much better position tommorow.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #717 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:24 am

Post by Elmo »

DragonsofSummer lines up the tab with the middle of the circle and squeezes for a while.
AlmasterGM
,
Mafia Goon
does a very convincing swiss cheese impression.

Day 4 dawns!
The gunbearer is still
DragonsofSummer
.
The
deadline
is Monday 8th February, 22:00 UTC, which is 18 days, 7 hours and 36 minutes from this post.
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Post Post #718 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:08 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

@Maemuki: I literally have no read on you; right now, you're looking like a damn good shot. Could you convince me why DoS shouldn't shoot you, or at least post once every 2 days so I can feel a little better about your slot?
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Post Post #719 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:21 am

Post by Maemuki »

Nachomamma8 wrote:@Maemuki: I literally have no read on you; right now, you're looking like a damn good shot. Could you convince me why DoS shouldn't shoot you, or at least post once every 2 days so I can feel a little better about your slot?
*nods* I will. Sorry about that, Spanish is ruining my life. >.<

And AlmasterGM attacking who Sarag was attacking the most seems awfully convinient to me. I need to see if they even interacted
at all
.
Maemukei
...
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Post Post #720 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:32 am

Post by Maemuki »

Rereading Zakeri I actually quite like his play. He was lurky, but his posts were good when they were made. I find it easy to follow his thought processes. I also liked Almaster's pressuring of Howard, and his other posts. For some reason I wasn't noticing him much and thinking of him as a lurker almost as bad as DoS but reading his posts, they're actually decent. Not amazing, but I see nothing damning there.
...
Hmm, actually after reading HackerHuck's 689 I agree that AlmasterGM's turnaround on me does seem pretty scummy. Like he thought "hey - easy target!" (or "hey I'm going to help my scumbuddy push this case") and then when no one cared, he let it go. Some town points to HackerHuck for this find actually.
!!! Wait, is this "Hey my scumbuddy slipped up and now somebody noticed it! Quick! Call HH town 'cause he did that!"

Also Almaster said that Sarag was probrably scum. Then we get to D3, where did that suspicion go to?
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Post Post #721 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:22 am

Post by Xylthixlm »

Yay for shooting AlmasterGM. Double yay for doing so nearly a week before deadline.
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Post Post #722 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:45 am

Post by DragonsofSummer »

His last post's were what tipped it for me. They were so full of bad logic that I couldn't not shoot him at that point.
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Post Post #723 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:11 am

Post by HackerHuck »

Maemuki wrote:
Rereading Zakeri I actually quite like his play. He was lurky, but his posts were good when they were made. I find it easy to follow his thought processes. I also liked Almaster's pressuring of Howard, and his other posts. For some reason I wasn't noticing him much and thinking of him as a lurker almost as bad as DoS but reading his posts, they're actually decent. Not amazing, but I see nothing damning there.
...
Hmm, actually after reading HackerHuck's 689 I agree that AlmasterGM's turnaround on me does seem pretty scummy. Like he thought "hey - easy target!" (or "hey I'm going to help my scumbuddy push this case") and then when no one cared, he let it go. Some town points to HackerHuck for this find actually.
!!! Wait, is this "Hey my scumbuddy slipped up and now somebody noticed it! Quick! Call HH town 'cause he did that!"

Also Almaster said that Sarag was probrably scum. Then we get to D3, where did that suspicion go to?
If it were such a slip, how come you didn't notice it?

I didn't get the feeling from your earlier posts that this was a two-way relationship. You had been using Sarag's supposed scumminess to tie in Alamaster when she changed her tune on him. Now you're saying it's the other way around, where Alamaster turning up scum means that Sarag is too? Were you even suspicious of Alamaster on his own merits or was it just because Sarag picked up on an inconsistency of his? It really seems like you're trying to force a case on Sarag.
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Post Post #724 (ISO) » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:18 am

Post by Maemuki »

If it were such a slip, how come you didn't notice it?
...it's not a damn slip if there's not a freaking flip! What, do you think that I can see everyone's role PM's before they flip? Give me a break.
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