Open 197- Lunch is over...

[kunkstar7]

/confirmado. These games must begin.

[kunkstar7]

Vote: animorpherv1

for winning.

[kunkstar7]

This is my first game with lover pairs. My main question at this point is:

Is it ideal for the pairs to be established, or is it better to keep the pairs secret?

[kunkstar7]

@Max: Like I stated, this is my first game with lover pairs. I was not sure as to what the proper course of action should be. I would rather wait to see the opinions of others before doing something that might be detrimental.

[kunkstar7]

Ok, so I think three pairs are out, so the last should be easy to figure out anyway.

[kunkstar7]

@Gameplayah
Also, what has been discussed so far in your QT?

Not much, just quick check if we were alright with giving out the pair.

[kunkstar7]

Has your lover checked in with the QT?

Yes we both have checked in.

[kunkstar7]

@Kunkstar
Can you paraphrase gameplayah's first post in the QT regarding the issue of lover claiming?

His post regarding lover claiming was a response to me asking if it was alright to claim our pair. He didn't have a problem with it.

[kunkstar7]

His opinion regarding lover claiming was posted one real life minute following Post 35 by him.

He has made one post following that, but no we did not discuss lover claiming further.

[kunkstar7]

Is it possible to explain what this strategy consists of or is it more prudent to wait until your further discussion is complete?

[kunkstar7]

Just the last part went kind of over my head, other than scum having the potential reach of four players.

[kunkstar7]

Are you honestly not paying that much attention to this thread?

[kunkstar7]

In the meantime, I'm having trouble deconstructing the exchange between Sonhora and gameplayah/kunkstar. From what I can tell, kunkstar asked in QT if gameplayah was OK to out their pair. Gameplayah responded that it was OK, but was then reluctant to reveal? Is this the way it happened or am I misreading?

I think we had a bit of a silent standoff as to who was going to out it, I didn't get to posting it so gameplayah did. I can't answer for any reluctance he may have had or felt, from my perspective I don't see any reluctance.

[kunkstar7]

Sanhora was hounding gameplayah about it because of this:

Anyway, if you think that it would help us, then why didn't you tell yours already? By giving your pair, part of town would already get extra information

I realize now why Sanhora asked for times. Gameplayah actually posted a few times after saying he was okay with posting the pair but he did not post the pair. I did not post until after the pair had already been posted. I'm not sure if I can see this as a legitimate complaint as I forgot to ask who wanted to post the pair. It is possible that he was wondering if I wanted to do it or not, I'm not sure how he felt, which is a possible explanation for his delay. As it were Farside, my question in QT isn't being answered, I'm not sure if gameplayah is checking the QT. I'll continue to try and generate discussion to get a better feel for gameplayah. Although with his recent post regarding a cop I feel that he's not the type of person to pay much attention at all.

[kunkstar7]

Maybe at deadline the top voted pair is lynched? I guess that would make the most sense in that position. At this point it doesn't seem like much is happening. I almost want a lynch just to get some sort of information going. My QT hasn't had any responses except my one since the sixth of February.

[kunkstar7]

@animorherv regarding the double FOS:

Every player is given an equal chance to be scum in this game. As such, you must view each player individually. So if both players have something that seems suspicious, then it is good to point it out as such. Just because they are the same pair does not mean that both players hold the same weight of seeming scummy. Therefore I find your FOS unsubstantiated.

[kunkstar7]

So, Max, your strategy that you came up with yesterday, is it applicable at this point now that we are onto the next day?

I also would like to

request replacement for gameplayah

.

[kunkstar7]

At this point I don't really know how to get into this game. I'm basically at this point a one-man pair, as gameplayah hasn't talked to me for 12 days. If my partner is scum I apologize now, although I have no control over his activity level, town really would get jipped here on that. I am suspicious of Snake as he considered actually being deceitful, in effect lying. I don't know if this can just be attributed to Snake really not understanding. Its more difficult to make an opinion from a secondary source such as Max's paraphrasing of their QT, but I see that interaction between Snake and farside as Snake trying to softconfirm farside as town, a real point against Snake and tying him to Farside.

[kunkstar7]

Don't think that Max is possibly scum seeing as he is willing to put himself at L-1. Thats something I was waiting for Max, to see if you would be willing to go for it. Yet Snake seems the prime candidate right now.

Vote: Snake

[kunkstar7]

Awesome.

I really have nothing from gameplayah. Not even his replacement either, last post in quicktopic by gameplayah was on February 6th. All it mentions is a bad hunch/vibe about you Farside. No reasoning besides vibe/feeling. Basically all I can say about my partner is he is nonexistent.

[kunkstar7]

Ok looking through the thread, especially the first few pages, I see a connection between Sanhora and Snake.

One of the major ties is both of them were the only two players who were against reveal.

Looking at Snake's mentions of Sanhora:

Sanhora appears to be town to me. He/she seemed cooperative with the publicizing pairings discussion, so that represents a town perspective to me. Sanhora also seemed to agree with me about being reluctant to reveal pairings, so that may have tainted my outlook. I still do not maintain that keeping the pairings secret was necessarily the correct strategy, but I certainly think that discussing beforehand was absolutely the correct strategy. At a minimum, we stood to gain information from those discussions.

Just said Sanhora was town and once again agrees with Sanhora about it should be discussed before revealing.

Another mention is regarding Sanhora's questioning of gameplayah and also commented on your observation about being in another game with Sanhora.

On the other side of that connection, Sanhora's mentions of Snake:

@Max, why Snake?
Also, can you elaborate on this?:

game and kunk have both been lurking, but I think an active pair is more likely to contain scum.

Vote Gameplayah

All I can say is that I'm town, and I would normally suspect my accuser of being scum, but I can't because scum would never want to lynch themselves (which is effectively what Max is promoting - sacrificing himself). That's the right thing to do if he thinks I'm scum.

Almost. Yes, Max has been promoting this. But he's not supporting it. Max, wanna explain why? You have stated that Snake is your top suspicion at the start of this day, yet no vote.
Also, do you want to explain the difference between Game and Ani from their behaviour D1?

Unvote; Vote Snake

The oddities I see on this end are that it seems Sanhora is trying to defend Snake against Max's decision that he is most likely scum, but doesn't have Max's reasons to defend him against. The second thing is Sanhora's vote seems off. He is questioning Max and seems to find Max's actions wrong yet still votes Snake even though he isn't really going after him or questioning him. I can really see this as sneaking onto a partner's inevitable lynch, trying to be subtle about it.

Overall there is little suspicion casting between Sanhora and Snake, they don't question each other and with the exception of Sanhora being on Snake's lynch generally ignore each other. Although it does seems as if Snake was buddying with Sanhora on the revealing.

Now Max's findings from his quicktopic with Snake say that Snake was overall keeping a town view on you the entire time. Since this is a secondary source I can't count on it too much, but with these two connections, I think the final scum is going to be in the Farside22/Sanhora pair.

[kunkstar7]

Sanhora, why did you vote gameplayah rather than me? I am the one who you were questioning, and it seems like that points you were making suggest a suspicion of me?

As to why I'm voting, I'm not voting till I can get a decent read on my partner. Hopefully now that he showed up I can see something. There is the chance that my partner is scum, so I want to take the time to get a read.

[kunkstar7]

@mod: I'm pretty sure Sanhora is voting gameplayah.

I would really like Sanhora to explain why you are voting gameplayah in a post dedicated to me basically.

[kunkstar7]

@mod: can we get prod/replacement on gameplayah?

Honestly, this game is really hinging on Sanhora and gameplayah's actions in my mind, and its kind of difficult without them posting. I'm leaning more towards the farside22/Sanhora pair as I see connections between Sanhora and Snake, and Max mentioned a connection between Farside and Snake, so it makes it a greater chance of hitting scum. Sanhora's continual voting of gameplayah, basically a lurker lynch, seems suspicious to me. In general Farside, do you have a town feel from Sanhora from your QT, or is it more of a null read at the moment?

[kunkstar7]

Alright, I think I can be fairly sure with this one. If I'm wrong on Phaen, well then shoot me. I think Phaen as scum would more likely be willing to place a vote down now on Sanhora considering that he probably knows I'm close to sure on Sanhora being scum and would be likely to hammer, so I see his holding his vote as protown. A big factor in my vote here is Snake's interactions. Phaen pointing out something in our QT, that Snake as scum had three motives for interactions

• To protect his pair
  
• To protect his scum partner
  
• To protect his scum partner's lover

And Snake's interactions with Sanhora, and Max's mentions of Snake's interactions with Farside effectively fulfill all three of these points. So I'm going to go ahead and:

Vote: Sanhora

I doubt Sanhora will self-hammer, so if Phaen's scum and I'm wrong on my read, we'll be seeing the hammer shortly.

[kunkstar7]

Phaen unvoted in post 205!

[kunkstar7]

=( you are scum aren't you...

[kunkstar7]

Bah.

In other news, I hate flakers.