Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[almightybob]

Seeing as we're all doing it - I recognise the following names, either from modding or playing: MonkeyMan, Neto, Reck, Lowell, Almaster, Nika.

Anyways,

Vote: DeathRowKitty

for being obvscum trying to get a quicklynch.

[almightybob]

I don't particularly like Bob's vote on DRK. He put on a second vote without a lot of reasoning behind it. It's a light tell, but it is one nonetheless.

Vote: AlmightyBob

I had reasoning. DRK was trying to get a wagon started in the first post, with absolutely no reasoning. I felt that was enough to put him at L-5. It's at least as strong as tell as this supposed one against me.

Also note the irony of you putting a second vote on me for a an equally weak tell.

[almightybob]

@almightybob
Random bandwagons: good

, bad,

or crazy awesome?

Random wagons - not particularly great.
Non-random wagons - crazy awesome.

[almightybob]

Honestly, though, I really hate the random votes thing. I think it's pointless and usually ends up lynching town.

I've never seen anyone actually be lynched because of random voting. What makes you think I, or anyone else, would actually let a lynch go through when the votes were random? I'd be kicking up some fuss if that happened.

[almightybob]

Bob: I can link you to a page 1 RVS lynch, if you'd like to see it. Sure, it involves a self-hammer, but the point is that it has happened before. I've also been lynched for objecting to a page 2 3-person bandwagon before that was based on little to nothing. To put it simply, random votes are contrary to my thesis of the game. That's why I've been experimenting with the opening questions in newbie games lately.

I would actually quite like to see that, if only to read the aftermath
I agree that random votes are not a good reason to lynch, which is why I would not be involved in a lynching wagon where the votes were based on random choice.

[almightybob]

Goddamn, I turn away for a day and the thread doubles in size.

Page 5 does not look good for Sakako. Opportunistic wagonhopping, story changing, AtE defence.

I dislike Monkey's "Random X and Random Y" response. You two were not chosen at random by Reck, yet you're trying to make it seem as if there's no reason to choose you over anyone else.

Lowell - what do you mean you "still" have scum vibes from esp? In the post where you voted him you don't say he looks scummy, you just say he's giving excessive meta. At no point do you say why this is scummy or that you get any scum vibes from esp. Where does the "still" come from?

[almightybob]

Goddamn, I turn away for a day and the thread doubles in size.

Had a quick catch-up read, doing a more thorough one.

[almightybob]

The only person currently close to a prod is almightybob. ~KittyMo

ORLY.
Apologies for the lack of activity over the weekend. Valentine's Day and all that, I had to pretend to actually like my girlfriend for 24 hours in a row. I don't think she bought it.

Anyways, back to what's important in life - Mafia.

I'm confused by Sakako. I didn't like Page 5 from him one little bit, and he's continued with the AtE defence since. Then he's leaving, then he's back. I'm not sure what to believe. I'm starting to see where Reck's coming from with the Too Scummy (yes logical fallacy blah blah).

I need to go over the case on Monkey. I don't like his habit of dismissing arguments without actually responding to them though.

[almightybob]

[hypocrisyhat]
Come on Nik, put some effort in or replace out.
[/hat]

On the other hand, I do see his point. Too many of these posts are things like *sigh*. It's not productive, it just lengthens the thread unneccessarily and discourages people who dare to get distracted by RL from catching up. My last post was yesterday, and in that time there's 3 extra pages. I'm not saying it's all unproductive (within those 3 pages Monkey looks more scummy, which is nice) but please guys, try to collect your thoughts before posting.
Before anyone comes out with some crap about me wanting to stifle discussion - read it again. That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm all for discussion and posting moar. As long as it's useful posting.


Anyway, moving on.

I really don't like Sakako's immediate wagonhop in 302. Wagoning on someone who's not showing up to defend themselves is a good scum tactic. Plus, saying "This is a pressure vote" kind of negates the pressure of it.

It seems Espeonage was the only one who noticed Monkey's very quick change to kyle after Esp voted for him. Combine it with Almaster's 339. Monkey looks pretty scummy through these last few pages. It's pretty lucky for him that everyone seems to have been distracted from this by Nika's resurfacing.

I agree with DRK's 344. One of those 3 are the best choice for today, we will get lots of information from their flips. Right now I would rather lynch Monkey.

Unvote, vote: MonkeyMan576

[almightybob]

Why Monkey over the other two? You spend this whole post talking about not liking Sakako's hopping, then point out Monkey's quick vote hop, but you say nothing about kyle. And, by your own logic, Sakako should be equally as viable as MonkeyMan... what makes MM's hopping scummier than Sak's?

Maybe it's that Monkey's scumminess is fresher in my mind. MM's hopping isn't scummier than Sak's, but his shift in opinion about meta (as pointed out by Almaster) definitely is.
I would be happy with Sak as well, but when I'd just finished reading those pages to catch up, Monkey was at the front of my mind. I didn't like his earlier dismissal of points against him, and now this. It's a very slight preference of him over Sak, but it's there.

Kyle hasn't done enough to seem out-and-out scummy to me. He's been accused of lurking and only posting to respond, which does seem true. However, just from this game he doesn't seem all that scummy to me. The reason I would be happy for a lynch on him is that so many people have taken stances against him, hopped on and off the wagon, called for his lynch for meta reasons etc etc. It would be a good informational lynch. That is the aspect of DRK's post that I agreed with.

[almightybob]

Did you read the games I posted for examples of both kyle's town and scum meta?

No. I don't have the time to read 50+ pages just to confirm what several people have already said. Enough people have agreed on kyle's meta that I doubt it's a scum ploy, so I'm happy to take your collective word for it that he is difficult to read and plays similarly regardless of role.

As Almaster has said, kyle can probably wait. He's a good information lynch and if we do eventually go to him today I won't be too against it, but I'd prefer Monkey or Sak today, and slightly prefer Monkey over Sak.




To sum up - people I would be willing to lynch today, in order of preference:

Monkey
Sak

Kyle



People I would not be willing to lynch today:

Everyone else.

[almightybob]

Still here, still alive, still reading.

Confused by Nikanor's actions. Even if AGM is scummy (which I don't see) there are definitely better candidates today.
Regarding your saying you don't see *shrug*s from Monkey:
He does it in 138, which is mentioned by Neto in 140, and DRK in 142. He again brushes it off as "random" in 148. Almaster brings it up again in 161, and I mention it in 164. This is the main one that springs to mind, but I'm fairly sure there's at least one other example somewhere. So yeah, it was mentioned quite a bit. How come you didn't see it?

I'm not sure that I agree with DRK that Nika avoiding the popular wagons for an obscure one is a towntell. His reappearance distracted people from MM's scumminess and reduced pressure on him, as I mentioned in 357. It could conceivably be scum trying to shift discussion away and distract Town from pressuring a scumbuddy. Although as you said, the more obvious scum play there would to be jumping on the opposing wagon.
I think with the information we have just now this'll have to be a nulltell.


Regarding lynch today: My vote is on Monkey, and I'm pretty happy about that.

Yaaay! Good to see you! =] ~KittyMo

[almightybob]

Fakeclaiming as Town is such fail. Goddamn.

I don't think we need to be overly worried about a speedlynch too much here esp, if it did happen the scum would out themselves and we would still have time to lynch them all.

For the points made yesterday,

Vote: Sakako

.

[almightybob]

Hmm... believing
a) "Nikanor has amazing insight and is truly an asset to Town, as evidenced by him correctly calling MM's flip even though he was acting scummy as hell all of D1" or believing
b) "Nikanor is likely scum, as evidenced by him correctly calling MM's flip even though he was acting scummy as hell all of D1".
I wonder...

I'm going to start policy lynching anyone who votes another person stating their reason as 'Lynch all Liars.' LaL is a copout as either alignment.

I'm going to start policy lynching anyone who starts policy lynching people for using a tried and tested method like LAL. It's a copout.
See how far that gets us?

If MM had been acting pro-Town and then got caught in a lie and been lynched via LAL I would agree with you. But he had been scummy all day long. You were seemingly the only person who bought his claim-change. It's far more likely that you're scum who said "No guys, claimchanging is a towntell" so you could later accuse people on the MM wagon for going with a strong scum candidate.

Nobody on the MM wagon unvoted after he changed his claim. That means that, at the very least, the following people were happy to Lynch A Liar (because they posted after he changed claim, but did not unvote):
AlmasterGM, Espeonage, xRECKONERx, Netopalis, Lowell, kyle99.
Also hito, who posted, mentioned LAL, but did not vote.
Also myself. I didn't check back into the thread between MM's claim change and his lynch, but if I had, I would have been screaming for his lynch too.

If you want to go after hito for his "I want to look moar Town" posts, fine and good luck to you. I'll definitely be looking at that particular point again.
But unless you think all 8 of us are conspiring, then the LAL argument is inadmissible as a scumtell.




And I like how you repeatedly call me scum, with nothing to back it up. Case or GTFO.

No time to comment now, aside from to say that Monkey should seriously reconsider his actions yesterday. They were absolutely pathetic.

I take it this is a typo, since Monkey's no longer with us. Did you mean hito?

[almightybob]

No, I meant that in future games, he should consider the reasons that he was lynched and not make the same mistakes.

Ah right. I thought it was about this game. Fair enough.

[almightybob]

Three are scum, the rest are just bad townies. I'm going to say it's a Neto, bob, hito team at this point.

You still haven't produced a case against me.

Also bob, I'd like to know why you waited until I attacked you to attack me. I'm sure that if you were actually worried about scumhunting, you would have brought these things up sooner.

Sooner when? The last time I checked the thread before MM's lynch was on my last post before it - Friday 19th Feb, 4:10AM. Next time I read the thread, MM's already dead (Sunday 21st Feb, 11:16AM, just over 48 hours later). Considering Day 2 has only just started, this has been the first real opportunity I would have had to bring anything up.

Your prediction only becomes scummy once it's shown to be accurate against all intuition, which to me shows foreknowledge. Therefore Day 2 would be my first opportunity to bring that particular point up.

In any event, the post that set my alarm bells ringing the most was 609. My attack comes in post 611. Hardly a long wait. And if you'd called anyone else scum without providing any semblance of a case, I'd be attacking about that. Just because you happen to apparently arbitrarily pick me does not make my attack retaliation.


Incidentally Nika, if using policy lynches like LAL is not pro-Town behaviour, please explain this:

I'm probably going to go with good ol' Lynch All Lurkers at the end, as hypocritical as that is.

[almightybob]

Lynch all Liars is a copout. Lynch all Lurkers is pro-town.

Why?

Specifically, I'm interested in people who continued to vote for Monkey while he was a claimed JOAT
[...]
It's basicially the inverse of Hanlon's Razor.

This paragraph is full of win. Goodposting.

Bob - were you ever in this thread between Monkey's JOAT claim and his recanting of it? I didn't see you but I was skimming.

No. As I said above, my last post was on the Friday. I didn't have time to check the thread at all until Sunday, and when I came back, MM has claimed JOAT, switched his claim, and been lynched.

If you want to check, I keep a list of all my games on my wiki page. You can see that for the three I'm in currently, I didn't post in any of them between Friday 19th and Sunday 21st.

[almightybob]

Why?

Read above.

*reads above*

Your reasons that LAL is scummy (correct me if I'm wrong)

:

1)

LaL is a copout as either alignment. Scum think, 'Oh hay, I can easily get this person lynched now by stating LaL!' Town think, 'Oh hay, we can lynch this person without actually having to think! I've been using my brain too much lately, so let's shut that down for a while and instead just lynch this person without thinking about his motivation for lying, which could indicate at his alignment.'

-

Applies equally to Lynch All Lurkers.

2)

In every game I've been in where it has been tested, the lynchee has ALWAYS flipped town. That's why I'm going to start policy lynching for it.

-

How many games would that be? And more importantly, were the people using LAL as justification scum or Town?

3)

Also, a townsperson's job is not only to find and lynch scum, but to also allow others to get an accurate town read on him. When you follow LaL, you're not allowing people to read you. That is why it should be a policy lynch.

-

Again, applies equally to Lynch All Lurkers, or any lynching policy.

Your reasons that Lynch All Lurkers is pro-Town

:
- none given.



You haven't provided a single argument showing LAL is scummy which doesn't equally apply to Lynch All Lurkers. They're just general arguments against policy decisions, which you've chosen to apply to LAL to further your cause here.

[almightybob]

I never said it was scummy. I said it was a cop-out as either alignment.

My mistake.

But lurking is scummy. Lying is not scummy.

How about you try to show me

WHY

these statements are true, instead of just saying them over and over. Look, I'll show you how it's done.

I believe the opposite to you - that lurking is not necessarily scummy, and that lying is much more scummy. My reasoning is as follows:

Lurking - There are a near-infinite number of reasons why someone might lurk. They mayb be busy with RL, they may feel they have nothing to say, they may be scum trying not to draw attention, they might just not care about the game. While I agree that it can be an okay tactic as scum, there are so many reasons Town might lurk that it becomes a nulltell. That's not to say we should put up with lurkers, because they hurt Town's chances. But they're just as likely to be Town hurting Town's chances as scum hurting Town's chances.

Lying - lying is built into the scum role. From the beginning, you have to fabricate suspicions and opinions. Every time you say as scum "I think X is scum", you are lying, and especially about your role. Conversely, there are very few reasons for Town to lie. Perhaps they might not tell the whole truth, but an outright lie is rarely a good thing for Town. Therefore I feel that a liar is much more likely to be scum than town, since scum by definition need to lie, whereas Town do not and should not.

Now your turn.

On this site, two (including this one)

Only two? Then why did you make a big deal out of it, as if you have some long history of LAL backfiring?? Christ.
If I flip a coin twice, and it comes up heads twice, does that make the coin biased because it came up heads "every time"? 2 samples is

nowhere near

enough to scrap a policy.

[almightybob]

Gah, sniped. Reading your posts now.

[almightybob]

Is there a survivalist motivation behind needlessly lying on a site where most people will immediately kill a liar without a second thought? No.

I lied because vanilla townie claims usually get lynched for being not useful anyways.

[almightybob]

The one time he's posted he completely ignored the topic, moving the discussion to some other wagon

Why did you not find Nikanor scummy for doing the exact same thing? Why did you not mention it at all when he did it?

#2. Bob's complete ignorance.

Nothing you point out shows ignorance of any sort. Ignorance of what?

He then votes me, but doesn't make any sort of points against me

This is your first post of D2. Any points I could have made against you were already made, at great length, by myself and others, in D1. What else could I have brought up that hadn't already been said? I see little value in repeating the points made against you on D1, when I could just say "see Day 1".

This seems a bit pointless to me, for instance, if Bob thinks I'm scummy, then surely he should be attacking me?

Again, all the attacking that could be done, had been done. And when I see something I don't like, from any player, I attack it. How is it a bad thing to pursue multiple routes?

I have been away for a while, and that would have been more than enough time for a scum-Bob to say "omg Saka's dodging the question". But oh wait. He can't, because he already advocated policy lynching as bad form in iso 13. Does that mean he's town, and he's actually following through with his logic? Or is he frustrated scum trying to get a lynch off anyone who's active enough? I can't tell at this point.

Pointless WIFOM. Although you are incorrect on one point - I never said policy lynching was bad form. If you'd kept up with my argument with Nikanor, you'd realise that.
I am in favour of Lynch All Liars, because there are far more scum motivations to lie than there are Town.
I consider Lynch All Lurkers to be a nulltell at best, because there's too many Town reasons to do it as well as the obvious scum motivation, and it's too easy to reasonably explain without possibility of proof (eg your unprovable but reasonable "I've been settling into uni" excuse).

I've said this before aimed at Nikanor, I really shouldn't have to explain it again.

[almightybob]

Sakako - no response to 648? I asked you questions. Please answer them.

[almightybob]

Neto, I'm not following you here:

Additionally, considers hammering Monkey before letting him claim - it seems as if he's setting himself up to look like a pro-town player when Monkey flips town.

How would hammering before someone (who turns out to be Town) claims make the hammerer look pro-Town?

[almightybob]

Bob: Sorry, I should have said that he makes a post pointing out that he

could

hammer, but chooses not to.

Ah, OK. I kind of see where you're coming from now.

Sakako:
1) So your suspicion is not that Kyle moved to a different target, but that he didn't write a one-line dismissal?

2) Fair enough.

3) Your analogy is incorrect. As you acknowledged in 647, I had points against you at the end of D1. I was not alone in this.
To correct your analogy, it would be like a man walking to Carthage, taking note of the signs and directions pointing him towards Carthage. Then he stops for the night. Do you expect him to note all the signs again, or continue from where he is?
So he continues on and arrives at Carthage. He hears that Alexandria is an interesting place, so he endeavours to find out more about it. That doesn't mean he wants to leave Carthage, or that he's not happy to be there. He just likes to explore all the options. If he decides he wants to be in Alexandria more than Carthage, he can always move. He starts noting directions to Alexandria, but he's not done with Carthage yet.

Also I like the classical approach to analogies

[almightybob]

I said

on this site

. Just yesterday I pulled off two mislynches as scum by pushing a Lynch All Liars case.

Then why would we believe that you pushing Lynch All Lurkers isn't you trying to do exactly the same?

About the lurking and lying thing, let's just go with me being right and you being wrong. This theory discussion isn't getting us anywhere anyway, so I'm going to stop caring if you think you're right or whatever now.

Me being right and you being wrong? I can live with that.

I didn't say it was more pro-town, I said that I think townies should think before they lynch someone for lying.

And everyone (except you) thought that MM looked scummy even before he was caught in a lie. LAL was the icing on an already scummy cake.

Afaik it's all a bunch of gut reads and bandwagonning.

Whoa whoa whoa. Stop the press. Is that... is that

justification for a stated position

? From

Nikanor

?
Are you feeling OK?

Also, I just realised that the reason for why Neto is always running to his meta is because he can't rely on his pro-town behaviour in this game to see him through. A town player would be able to do that. However, Neto is not town, so he has to rely on meta to defend himself.

This does ring true however. Now that I think about it, Neto has said "*shrug* it's my meta" several times during this game.


I'm going to reread Lowell and Neto, because a lot of people seem to be saying they're scummy, but I can't remember why right now.

And can I ask

@ everyone

(apart from Nikanor the psychic) why they've dropped all suspicion of Sakako in D2? Did I miss him doing something incredibly pro-Town or being cleared or something?

* Prodding almightybob (last post 15th hour of Feb 28)

You do realise that February has only 28 days, and that therefore you prodded me 16 hours after my last post, right mod?

[almightybob]

First half of Lowell's post is IIoA. We don't need to see all the working, just the highlights.

Regarding the second half - you see that bit where you summarised the case against Sakako? That's why I voted for him. How does it work that you claim it's scummy for me to attack him on that basis, but not for you to do the same?

[almightybob]

Sorry guys, another of my games just came to a dramatic conclusion over the last few days and it's been occupying a lot of my time and mind.


Last time I posted, I said that I remember Neto saying "*shrug* it's my meta" a lot.
He was right, the only time I saw him using meta as a defence was regarding RVS participation.

However, it's not the only time he shrugs off a point against him and makes a noncommital response, or

implies

a meta defence without explicitly saying it. Observe:

*shrugs* I was just stating that I don't feel comfortable lynching without hearing him respond. I've been in several games where some newbie comes along and hammers before we get a chance to hear a defense.

Note implied meta defence - it's happened several times in other games.

*shrugs* The problem I had was with you setting it up so far in advance. It looked as if your posts were designed not to build a case, but to justify a switch later.

No subtle meta, but the inclusion of the shrug makes the stated opinion seem vague. Take a stance, man.

*shrugs* My only point was that I don't like to participate in RVS and that I do it in all of my games. I didn't even say that you had to find it that authoritative.

This is the one he admits to.

*shrugs* I don't often bus. Also, like I said yesterday, I work much, much better on D2. There's more to analyze and it plays more to my style. Finally, I don't think you can see a strong connection between us on D1. Regardless, Lowell's the play today, I feel.

Another implicit meta defence with "I don't often bus".


When I reread Lowell, I have to say I didn't spot anything overtly scummy. Is the case against him based on the fact that he hasn't posted all that much? Because that's a little weak.

If I had to choose between Lowell and Neto (and it looks like it's going to be one of the two today) I'd probably pick Neto. I'm going to keep rereading him and probably vote in a few hours unless I find something obvTown about him.

[almightybob]

Yeah, I read your case on Lowell.
Some of the points I agree with, some I see where you're coming from but disagree with the conclusion, some I'm confused as to why you left them out.

Quick thoughts in bold to the points I have issue with (if it's not here, that means I agree with your analysis):

5) Strange post altogether - the whole "I think scum would play as X" is a bit weak. -

On its own, maybe, but link it with iso 6.

6) Weak reasoning for a vote given the lateness in the day -

Mmm... I don't think that drawing attention to and putting pressure on a lurker is all that bad, considering he just said he thinks it'll be a scum tactic this game. If you follow it on from iso 5 it's fine in my eyes.

7) Decent post, better than most, but it really doesn't advocate any position. -

Doesn't necessarily specify any positions on who is scum, but still a useful post I think. Speaks out against what he sees as a bad decision from the whole Town, where I think the better scum play would be to blend.

10) Agreement, strange logic leading to a weak result. -

Again, on its own perhaps, but combine it with iso 11 where he emphatically states his conviction that monkey is scum.

14) "Yeah, I'd like to lynch somebody else, but I'm going to keep my vote over here because it looks townie" -

His vote was placed against DRK to get a Fibonacci sequence going, it clearly wasn't serious. In his very next post, iso 15, he upgrades his FoS to a vote. I don't see an inconsistency here.

18) Attacking the easy target - the second-best target from the previous day. -

I sort of agree with Lowell, although admittedly it could be because I still suspect Sakako a bit.

Altogether, these posts show that Lowell is afraid to take a solid position and seems to be far too eager to be in the majority in any case. -

He takes a pretty solid position against monkey in iso 11 and 15. I'm not sure why you left those two posts out of your analysis.

[almightybob]

but Bob was so quick to jump to your defense when you were lurking agreeing with you about the ridiculous level of posting in the game

You weren't there. Look at the timestamps - it was obscene. I usually check MS around once a day if it isn't a weekend. I'd come back to the thread a day later to find that people had spammed 5 or 6 pages, lots of it irrelevant or unhelpful in scumhunting. It was like replacing into a game every day, pretty daunting and discouraging. Most of the games I've played have been less than 25 pages, this one had a 25-page Day 1.

He's more on my radar, for various reasons.

What reasons?

Lowell case > Neto case

Why? I just had a quick peep in iso and I didn't spot you commenting on the Neto case at all in D2.

I think [bob]'s probably scum too.

I've said it so many times this game, I think I might just stick it in my sig for convenience:

why?

ITT getting justification is like blood from a stone.

[almightybob]

This. Thanks for the defense, bob! I'm glad to see you're encouraging Zach's opinion of us.

I don't really care. He's saying that the high activity level thing was an excuse. It was not. If he wants to think that we must immediately therefore be scum together because everyone was posting 6 pages in a day, fine. I'm not going to avoid saying something for fear of confirming some piss-weak scumhunting theory Zach has come up with. Being overly concerned about appearing scummy is what scum do.

[almightybob]

bob, why haven't you voted Neto yet? Did you find something obvtown about him?

Oops, thought I already had.

Unvote, vote: Netopalis

. L-1.

[almightybob]

We're popcorning aren't we? So choose someone to claim next Nik.

[almightybob]

Actually, screw it, I'm not waiting for her to choose. It takes forever to get Nikanor to post anything.

Zachrulez - 1
almightybob - 2
xRECKONERx - 3
Lowell - 4
AlmasterGM - 5

Nikanor

hitogoroshi - 6

d6 = 2031944787

[almightybob]

Reck, you're up.

[almightybob]

Fair enough, I'm a plain old Vanilla Townie.

Hito?

[almightybob]

(yes, I work day shifts now)

How considerate of your boss to change your shifts to match your inactivity excuses in Mafia.

[almightybob]

I've thought AGM has seemed pretty pro-Town throughout, so yeah I don't have any reason to doubt the mason claim right now.
And yeah, Town is looking pretty underpowered so far. Is it outguessing the mod to speculate on the setup in a closed game? I don't think that really falls under it.

[almightybob]

I'm off to work! I have a night shift tonight, har har har.

How considerate of your boss to change your shifts to match your inactivity excuses in Mafia.

You have to weigh the fact that he plays like this in general, (Whether or not he plays scum the same way) vs the idea of lynching him in lylo first over what I feel are superior lynches such as Nikanor, or even Almightybob.

Where did you arrive at me from? As far as I can see, your suspicions of me stem from me supposedly jumping to Nikanor's defence when he said the game was very active in early D1. Is that really it? Because I think I already gave my assessment of that case in Post 753.


I'm not prepared to lynch either of the masons. I have a fairly Town read on Reck, and hito has seemed Townish so far (I never really understood all the huge hype about him being scum, must reexamine that wagon in D5).

I wasn't hugely impressed by Neto's case on Lowell - it seemed like he left some posts out deliberately to make his case seem stronger than it was. On the other hand, there were some good points in it.


Considering the very weak Town, I think we might only be up against 2 scums.

tl;dr: Today I will be voting for Nikanor. It will take something groundbreaking to change my mind.

[almightybob]

I just went through and isoed you from about day 3 trying to find any positions from you and I couldn't find anything...

I actually laughed out loud.
Could that maybe be because we no-lynched with deliberately no discussion on Day 3, and we've been co-ordinating a massclaim for the overwhelming majority of Day 4?

[almightybob]

That hasn't stopped everyone else. Only you and Nikanor.

Looking at D3:
there's hardly any useful scumhunting going on.
Some speculation about the pros and cons of no-lynching.
Some discussion about Nikanor's lurking, with references to 30+ page games which - newsflash - nobody ever checks because nobody has the time to read 60 pages of other games.
More post count pedantry.
More "should we no-lynch?" discussion.
Two people, one of whom is confirmed Town, saying we should end the day early with no discussion. Which is what happened.

You'll notice I didn't actually get a chance to post in the just-over-24 hours that D3 lasted. By the time I saw the thread, the no-lynch was already decided. Reck had already called for no more discussion twice, and Espeonage once.

Day 4:
Massclaim organisation, wagon analysis from Reck, then:

Well we're supposed to wait for MC before we do any of this

Since you try to stop scumhunting during massclaim yourself, I don't see how you can then say that my not scumhunting during massclaim is bad.

Let me just get this out of the way: is there anyone here who disbelieves the mason claims?

Also, can I get a "won't lynch", "might lynch", and "want to lynch" list from everyone?

I highly doubt we would be given only a Tracker to defend against the scum, so no, I have no reason to doubt the mason claim.

WON'T LYNCH TODAY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

AlmasterGM
Zachrulez
xReckonerx
Hitogoroshi

MIGHT LYNCH, BUT ONLY IF MY PREFERRED WAGON IS DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

Lowell

WOULD LIKE TO LYNCH TODAY

Nikanor
Lowell

[almightybob]

Whoops, I must have pasted by mistake there. Lowell should not be in the bottom category, he should be in the middle.

[almightybob]

Sooo you think there are only two scum, bob? Who's the third?

Read that back to yourself.

[almightybob]

How about just answer the question Bob?

The question makes no sense. If I think there are only two scum, why would I nominate a third scum?


Lowell - I doubt it's a scum fakeclaim, because that would mean that all Town has is a single Tracker. That seems very unlikely to me.

And enough people have expressed a desire to lynch Nikanor that I'm happy to vote.

Vote: Nikanor

[almightybob]

Balls.

Reck/hito/Lowell?

[almightybob]

Well done Mafia. Reck had me fooled good. That's twice now. Note to self: If you think Reck is Town, he's scum.