Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[Lowell]

vote nik

. Shit, I'm not nik's buddy. I'd better do what DRK says.

[Lowell]

esp's posts 37 and 39 are more meta than is useful.

unvote, vote esp

[Lowell]

These last three pages are a waste of time.

I'm getting very strong town vibes from sakako and reckoner.

I'm gettting scum vibes (still) from esp and lately monkey, who reading the last few pages has done more than his fair share to keep inane arguments going. He looks like he's making more effort to make others look stupid and newbish than anything else.

fos monkey

[Lowell]

unvote, vote monkey

pikachu beat me to it. A lot of what monkey does (those posts in particular) or more aimed at establishing his credibility and cutting off conversation he doesn't like.

@esp- it's a vibe I have on you. Lately you've been lurking, so no I don't have much to read on you lately.

[Lowell]

This has the makings of a game where lurkerscum could carry the day.

reckoner and sak look town to me, but both have an annoying habit of nitpicking.

[Lowell]

I just have a strong newb-town vibe from him in iso. I realize that's not the most satisfying answer.

I also think scum would have figured out the way to win this is to lurk to high heaven. With the "gotcha" idiocy going on it's what I'd do.

[Lowell]

Geez I dont' know, a bunch of people. What has nik done, for instance, other than closely monitor the vote count and post one-liners w/ happy faces? No one thinks that's strange?

unvote, vote nik

[Lowell]

So, seriuosly, when someone gets a wagon they say "I'm having trouble paying attention" and we all unvote? Everything about that is scummy.

I don't know why we're framing things in terms of monkey and sako already (although it would seem to heavily favor everyone who isn't monkey or sako), but as long as we are I still think sako is town and monkey quite possibly isn't.

fos reckoner and neto

. Both were too eager to narrow down the field to two palyers.

[Lowell]

Prod received. Sorry. Will catch up soon.

I'm confused about the monkey wagon. I feel like I tried this pages ago and it didn't stick. It's like no one wants to be on a bandwagon I started.

Yay! Good to see you! ~KittyMo

[Lowell]

458 is a ridiculous reason not to vote someone. Seriously, could neto be doing more to prove how

totally not into

the monkey lynch he is, while still voting him? Cue the "I told you so" post if monkey comes up town...

That said, I doubt monkey is town at this point. 450 is a surrender post if ever there was one, and his absence at the point he should be defending his shit off is incriminating. I'll cast the hammer in a bit, but for the sake of avoiding potential "OMG why didnt' you let him claim!" digressions I'll give monkey some time..

[Lowell]

Wait a minute. DRK, I don't think you quite get what I'm saying here. Reckoner stated that Monkey had 4 abilities. From my experience, JOAT has a varying number of abilities.

How did Reckoner know that Monkey's claim had 4 abilities unless he's scum with Monkey?

Totally missed that. Nice catch. Also it's weird that not only did reck mention 4 abilites, but then monkey just rolled with it. Even if they're not buddies, it's likely that monkey is scum, and just took the cues he got to define a fake role.

unvote, vote monkey

.

[Lowell]

Why, when asked to claim, did monkey first perform a big song and dance about how everyone was going to vote for him anyway, so what's the point? When I have a powerrole I can't

wait

to claim, and I

certainly

wouldn't try to piss people off with the woe-is-me sympathy card when I was already at L-1.

I find monkey's actions VERY inconsistent with normal powerrole play. Some people are eager to be duped, and it makes me wonder why. Monkey is certainly scum.

[Lowell]

unvote

Ugh. Monkey-scum given a "few days" to come up with results is going to confuse the shit out of anything else we try to accomplish, but whatever.

[Lowell]

vote DRK

[Lowell]

DRK's love of math warms me, we are kindred spirits.

It still saddens me that we're stuck not lynching monkey. The way he claimed after bitching about claiming is scummy. The way he just rolled with it when someone else mentioned 4 powers is scummy (IF you had four powers and were town, wouldn't you be, um, suspicious of someone who knew how many powers you had?). The way he's trying to defend himself by pretending mafia is a math problem is scummy.

fos monkey

[Lowell]

Attention: I've never seen a JOAT with anything but 4 powers

Fine. But certainly many people (myself included) wouldn't have known somthing like that. So casually mentioning four powers is scummy. It does look like you're helping to nudge a scummate towards a safer claim. And if you're town that's the kind of information you'd leave to yourself until AFTER monkey's claim, then hit him with it if he named 3, or 5 powers.

unvote, vote monkey

. Sorry fibonacci. I

really

don't like how this claim went down. At all. My next suspect is reckoner if monkey flips scum.

[Lowell]

Um, guys. He's not town. Also 588 is hilarious and right.

[Lowell]

So hitero just shows up to call out those voting for monkey, after he fakeclaimed, then admitted his claim was fake. Sorry, not taking the blame for monkey being an idiot. Those strategically avoiding the whole situation (ahem, hitero) look much worse, IMO.

[Lowell]

vote sako

. He looked town to me yesterday, but the pushing of the kyle wagon is horrible. Again, hammering a fake-claim is not scummy.

[Lowell]

I dont' have much to say about neto. It's strange that he said he was going to do an iso of me and then immediately came back with a vote. Seems like he already knew he wanted to do that. I dont' buy the "he's not doing enough" attack. That's insanely subjective and can (if one was so inclined), be said about just about anyone.

[Lowell]

Prod received. Sorry folks, had another game heating up, I'll try to get back to this one as soon as possible.

Yaaaay! Hai Lowell. =] ~KittyMo

[Lowell]

Lowell: Promising to post and then not doing so since 2010.

You wish, dude. I've been here for like f'ing forever.

But seriously... within two hours, bear with me.

[Lowell]

Rolling all the way back to page 19, when things start to heat up:

452- neto votes monkey to L-1, outlines case (almaster, almightybob, espeonage, sakako, xreckx, neto)
453- kyle votes lowell, fewer reasons, hints that monkey is a mislynch [-, trying to avoid the wagon?]
454- reck demands monkey claim
464- sakako takes a flier for the rest of the day [-, he wants to get the lynch done quick and is setting it up as monkey is inevitable]
471- monkey claims

JOAT

472- neto unvotes
473- reck unvotes (down to 4 votes)
474- neto votes kyle
475- "four abilities" post from reck
478- DRK votes neto (lynch -2)
479- good observation from neto about four abilities [+]
482- lowell votes monkey, supports same reasoning
489- nik votes neto, wants to give monkey a day
492- saka unvotes, really weird and wandering meta post [-, concludes lynching scum is good.... really?]
496- saka votes neto
501- saka confesses to having no clue [+, refreshing]
506- lowell points out the strangeness of monkey's delayed claim
515- almaster decrees the claim fake [+, true]
521- reck argues claim is fake, votes monkey [+]
527- neto votes monkey
549- FIBONACCI! (monkey leads w/ 5 votes)
566- lowell votes monkey, L-1, suspects reck
568- monkey claims

vanilla town

[terrible]
593- kyle hammers [+, gutsy]
603- monkey is

town

. DRK,

tracker

, dies
607- bob votes saka, laments bad townplay [-, easy does it]
608- reck foss hito for being useless
609- nik votes hito
615- reck mentions "three scum" [-, am I missing something?]
617- nika rolls with it, agrees there are three scum [--]
623- nika votes bob, keeps pressing LaL debate [-, don't care about this]
641- reck votes nik for "faux content"
642- kyle votes reck for hypocrisy around monkey hammer [+, good point, hadn't noticed]
645- almaster vote hito for, basically, lurking
646- hito votes lowell for jumping on claimed JOAT wagon [-, what?]
647- saka votes kyle for not explaining the hammer [-, not sure what saka wants here]
653- lowell votes saka for the kyle wagon
654- neto says he's going to vote lowell
655- neto votes lowell [-]
661- reck calls neto and lowell scum, votes lowell
684- nika votes neto
693- esp enters, calls out neto and lowell, votes neto [-, convenient]


Some scum players:

hito

- What folks mentioned about him at the end of yesterday was right. He avoided the monkey situation like the plague, which doesn't look good for him. Also, he opened the next day by questioning those who didn't believe the JOAT claim.

Even though the JOAT claim was a fakeclaim[/b]. He doesn't bother to explain why knowing (or being right about) the bogusness of monkey's claim translate to scumminess or non-scumminess. In fact hito's avoiding the situation entirely looks more scummy, and I'm not impressed by how he decided to jump on the wagon after the fact. It's opportunistic as hell to bring up the busted fake-claim and use it to smack people in a way that makes no sense.

almightybob

- This guy has made so little impression it hurts. Two things. First, post 607 bugs me. He doth protest too much. And he uses this "goddamn" post to mask a lazy vote on saka. If monkey's insanely improbably town flip doesn't give you anything else to go on, that's embarassing. Or scummy. Second, I don't like that the only time he's truly been engaged in anything has been the "LaL vs. not-LaL" debate. It's typically scummy to lurk, do not much, and then resurface and be "active" when a meta debate starts raging. This helps him be present without having to actually do much or offend anyone.

sakako

- His behavior at the end of yesterday was bad. 464 is bad, as he's trying to give himself an out for not changing his vote at all. This only makes sense if he thinks we're about to lynch town and he knows it. 492 is meta and pointless. Later, EVEN after the outed fake-claim by monkey, saka doesn't put his vote back? Why not? If monkey was good enough to lynch before he fake-claimed, why is it no good after? Again this looks like he knows what's coming. 647 is also bad. Not only is attacking the hammer vote opportunistic, it also isn't clear what saka wants. It's clear why most folks voted the way they did. Does he just want an apology. It might make sense to attack the hammer if the vote came out of left field or for a reason no one understands, but... in this case monkey fakeclaimed and admitted it, and there were more than enough potential hammer votes to go around.

Some town players:

almaster

- Just a vibe. But I like how he sniffed out the fakeness of the claim (like lowell did!) in 515.

kyle

- I see nothing wrong with the hammer, and the fact that he wasn't hemming and hawing is to his credit. He brings up an interesting point in 642 as well.

Other notes:

The 615, 617 sequence gives me pause a bit. Here,

reckoner

offhandedly mentions "all three scum." In 617,

nika

goes along, also referring casually to the three scum. It could be that they're both just guessing and three scum is pretty common, but I've certainly also seen games with two scum or four. But neither called the other on it, so either it's just accepted that there are three or they're both scum and both slipped.

Other players:

espeonage

needs to post more. He hasn't impressed, but I dont' have a particularly strong vibe on him one way or the other.

neto

is incredibly hard for me to read. I liked 459 (at the time), as well as his behavoir around the monkey wagon. But I get a bit of scummy vibe, and some of his moves look calculated and opportunistic.

Same goes for

nika

. The pointless meta-debate over LaL with bob (after the fact) was pointless, but generally he's been active and seems to be trying.

reck

looked very scummy yesterday with the "four powers" comment, but it seems that was a red herring and was what he said it was. If anything that clears him a little. His vote on nik is good, but his smarminess I can do without.

fos sakako
fos hito
unvote, vote almightybob

Of the three, bob deserves pressure the most. sakako and hito can't hide as well.

[Lowell]

First half of Lowell's post is IIoA. We don't need to see all the working, just the highlights.

Regarding the second half - you see that bit where you summarised the case against Sakako? That's why I voted for him. How does it work that you claim it's scummy for me to attack him on that basis, but not for you to do the same?

The pbp is to help me organize my thoughts. Ignore it if you like.

My problem with your vote isn't that it's on sakako, it's the lazy way it was done. I for one found monkey's actions bizarre. To wake up D2 and not have anything new from that is strange. It makes me think you weren't surprised by the result.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote neto

Replace THIS!! Sorry folks I was gone for the weekend, back now.

Yes, I realize this is a hammer. One, this is a decent lynch; neto is useless and probably scum. Two, this is the only lynch (other than me) that has a chance.

In the event neto flips town, prepare your righteous indignation for tomorrow, and I shall prepare my defense. In the event of his flipping scum, send cash.

[Lowell]

Wait, are people really no lynching? Why are we (a) assuming 3 scum, and (b) assuming town doesnt have something like a doc to fight back? Also, do we think scum are goint to knock out one of our leading suspects overnight? Won't scum just get a free offing of someone generally agreed to be town? You really think scum are kicking themselves right now that we've discovered this awesome strategy?

No lynch is pointless at best, terrible at worst.

[Lowell]

Aight whatever. I'm not sure I buy this, but let's just get this done then and get to tomorrow before everyone quits.

vote no lynch

[Lowell]

roll a dice to decide who's first. It's equally dumb to just let zach or reck decide.

[Lowell]

I agree w/ reck's 828. One of my pet peeves is when players in danger replace out, everyone unvotes, and their replacements jump in scott free.

Two people that catch my eye looking at the final votecounts are hito and zach/kyle. On day 2 they both avoided the lead wagon (with hito voting for me and zach even avoiding THAT wagon with a meaningless vote on nika), while neither did much to really gain steam for their respective choices. It looks like both were deliberately avoiding the wagon.

On day 1, though kyle did cast a hammer vote, hito again avoided the lead townwagon(s) like the plague with a vote for kyle: a case he readily abandoned when kyle was replaced. This looks like potential distancing.

[Lowell]

Mod, please get Nikanor's sorry ass in here to massclaim.

Lowell, you're still on my scumlist... you were on the tail end of BOTH townie lynch wagons.

Well then your scumlist is an idiot.

Since in hindsight at least 11/12 were voting town on D1, your complaint that I was on the townwagon is weak-ass reason. It looks like you're grasping at straws to take a position you just don't feel like backing down from for fear of looking flip-floppy.

[Lowell]

vanilla.

zach next, please. let's get this moving.

[Lowell]

I do see a touch of coaching from reck's post about hito, so points for Nika for pointing that out. That said, 848 and 851 annoy the crap out of me. Nik's giddiness over pikachu is weird, particularly the over-the-top defense of the mason claims where she suggests, basically, that no one save her should have a right to suspect pika.

I agree it would be a whale of a gamble for scum to claim masons at endgame, and I guess I tend to believe the claims. But I wouldn't rule it out. So it's not... CRAZY to think it could be a scum-gambit (particuarly if there's a 3rd and they could win anyway) More to the point, I certainly wouldn't pull a 180 so fast as nikanor did. Her going from suspecting pikachu to 'making jokes about how crazy it would be for anyone to suspect pikachu' is alarming. Especially since one of those two (zach) happens to be the one most pushing the nika scum case.

At this point I see a NIKA/RECK/HITO scumteam as most likely (I don't think nika would have thought to point out the coaching had she not been specifically attuned to it). I think if Nika were scum w/ pikachu and zach, she would have maintained her defiance, at least for show. The fact that she didn't makes me think either she, or they, are town.

vote nikanor

I'm ready to start this. If the mason claims are true (and it's lynch or lose) hitting scum today should be a slam dunk.

[Lowell]

Okay guys, we can stop arguing.

[Lowell]

[Lowell]

Eh, wait for mod. You're not the only one confused.

[Lowell]

@reck- did you guys know you had a traitor? God no, I definately didnt' breadcrumb.

I have to say this is the first time I've played as a traitor. VERY frustrating role. The whole time I just wanted a way to scream out to hito and reck that I was on their side... particularly this last day. As soon as I saw how set pikachu was on lynching nik, I figured the only way to make it work would be to lead out on the vote myself and hope they followed. Especially since I felt I was probably the other most likely lynch, and certainly reck and hito would have both happily joined that one as well.

Anyway, good game everyone.

[Lowell]

ah nevermind, just read the PMs.

Actually, had I known you guys

knew

there was a traitor I might have played it differently. I might have breadcrumbed... not sure how I would have done that safely though.

In my mind, I was assuming you guys didn't even know there was a traitor, and thus were playing this last day as if it weren't lynch or lose.