Mini 922 - Mafia in Mo Town [Game Over]

[Espeonage]

Hai peeps.
Anyways I have played with none of you and as such will be saying.

Vote: xRECKONERx

Just coz I don't like that added x's. =P

[Espeonage]

@Everyone - If you HAD to policy lynch one player in this game, who would it be and why?

It'd be cool if the answers weren't random.

Isn't it a bit early. Well I wouldn't policy lynch someone because I have no idea how anyone plays seeing as this is my first non-newbie game. I suppose if I had to give an answer I would say lurkers especially since this isn't a game with frightened newbies too scared to post.

[Espeonage]

Wow, random voting much? I think I'll pass for now.

Also, I'm running Ubuntu with XMonad. It's the bomb.

The point of RVS is to gain info on everyone by judging the interplay and natural conversation that voting causes. By choosing not to participate in RVS you are in essance witholding information from town which is definantly not a pro-town thing to do.
I would hate to drag the game out of RVS at such an early stage therefore.

FoS: Sak

[Espeonage]

Wow. I can't win. In the last two games I played, I screwed up the RVS cause I kept it going. Now I don't want to vote, and I'm getting voted for?

Vote: Espeonage

, cause you're actually analysing stuff. :p

I'm in a similar boat. My last game I wasn't aggressive enough early and town kinda lost as a result of it.

[Espeonage]

Because we can still classify ourselves as in RVS and as suck I didn't feel that ending it quickly would be particularly beneficial due to the information that can come out of conversation in this period.

It is said that everyone, wether they know it or not, want others to know what there role is and as such will leave clues. People are more likely to leave such clues when the pressure isn't really on. Thus keeping the game in RVS as well as prompting discussion which is beneficial to town.

I was also criticised in my first game of not being aggresive enough. I was trying to make sure that didn't happen this time.

btw How is anyone clearly town at this point?

[Espeonage]

No, no and no. I was simply stating game theary to back up why discussion is a good thing. You want to see it I suggest you go read some of the wiki and I would definantly not advocate a mass roleclaim at any point.

[Espeonage]

What is a floater?

In essence it is an active lurker who just goes with what everyone else is saying.

[Espeonage]

I want to hear more from Netopalis. Where art thou, O brother?

I think floating is probably more of a scumtell than general active lurking - but that might just be me.

How are they any different?

@Vi: Hiiiiii~ to you too.

I would classify Active Lurking to include those people that post but don't contribute to discussion but still make valid votes whereas a floater would be more likely to mimic someone elses arguement.
That is just my perception of it though.

[Espeonage]

esp's posts 37 and 39 are more meta than is useful.

unvote, vote esp

The point was to use proven meta to back up my point. I fail to see how that makes me scum. The information is communaly available.

[Espeonage]

@ Sakako: Make a serious case on someone and maybe will be pulled out of it.

[Espeonage]

AB: I actually hammered someone just after RVS was finished, if that counts. I got lynched for it the next day, though. ^^;

It wasn't my fault, I swear.

LMAO, anyways. I happen to see RVS lynches all the time. Never on this site though so I doubt it would happen somewhere as serious as this.

[Espeonage]

Neto, who's scum?

That is a stupid question. Maybe a better one would be, who do you suspect is leaning towards scum.

[Espeonage]

@ Mod: can we get an official votecount pleases?

I would like to see where everyone is at before I comment on the most recent discussion. Just so I have a firm idea of where we are at.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Despite all this talk about RVS and how we will never leave. I actually thing we have people are forming arguements and such to back up their votes. I have nothing to point towards Reck being scum so therefore me vote has been pulled.

Neto is always a bit shitty on Day 1 so I will let that slide for now. (This is why you always read everyones wiki page.)
Anyways, my opinion on Sakako is that he has found himself in the big bad world that is everything non-newbie and is having difficulties staying afloat. So I'm not all that suspicious of him either.

Is it just me or have some people put random vote down then sat back and watched what everyone else is doing and only posting to escape the prod. That just seems strange especially early on when the pressure is light. I have my eye on a few people but noone warrants a vote yet in my eyes.

[Espeonage]

This was absolutely a terrible defence post and I recommend more votes on you with quick haste.

And what the hell was that?
Seriously, it is almost as if you are requesting people to settle on the neto lynch pronto without any furthur discussion when we have over a fortnight left in this phase. We are barely out of the RVS and you already want a lynch.
I said I had nowhere to place a vote. Well now I do.

Vote: Monkey

[Espeonage]

Umm... Lowell, you say that you still find me scummy. What exactly in the last few pages makes me a better person to lynch than Monkey?
I only ask because you didn't bring up anything other that stuff on Monkey yet your vote still sits on me.

[Espeonage]

Ok. Monkey, you are actually not defending the points made against you so much as making points against who is voting for you. You were at the beginning but that discussion has kinda gone off track leaving me with a suspicious gut to add to the case I made. Therefore i am happy with my vote at the moment. I still hold that Saka (See ain't I nice. I read you don't like Sak) is a newb town.

[Espeonage]

No but instead of countering the arguements against you, you are having an arguement with neto about how he is playing. I never said there was any OMGUS in there.
So now I ask why four people are compelled to place their votes on you if there is no real case on you?

[Espeonage]

Every single case that has been made against you, you have dismissed with a one or two sentance answer describing how it is all false. If you don't want people to vote you then maybe you should try and actually answer their cases properly.

[Espeonage]

Defeatism gets you knowhere. Trust me.

[Espeonage]

Kyle is lurking.

[Espeonage]

The reason is that if Kyle is scum then he is taking the oportunity to get the easy lynch before any more suspicion can be aroused and thus allowing scum to net two easy kills. That is why people towards the end of a wagon start to appear scummy if they haven't provided good reasoning. It is hard for someone to come up with new reasoning when it is 7 to the lynch. But still I can see where both sides of the arguement are. The other thing that counts against kyle is that he has been lurking and thus makes himself more suspicious by popping up when someone gets close to being lynched. That in itself is scummy.

[Espeonage]

Mistake you have kyle voting for two people

Thank you. =] ~Kitty

[Espeonage]

I feel special.

[Espeonage]

Why?

Because I had a Mod edit my post.
+ It was in purple, which makes it even cooler.

[Espeonage]

I don't have the time to catch up today. Expect a post tomorrow night.

Yay! ~Kitty

How come he gets a special edit. I want special edits. I like that indigo colour.

Hiiii. And yes, I like this color too. That's why I claimed it. =] ~Kitty

[Espeonage]

YAY! The mod wroted in my post again.

Ok down to buisness. I'm not going to hold Lowell's vote against him because I feel the same way.
Kyle seems to be acting like scum would and I am beginning to suspect him more than Monkey. Basically they are no.1 and 2 in my book at the moment and thus I would be happy with either of those lynches at this point in time.

That's my basic veiw of all the 'under scrutiny' peoples atm.

[Espeonage]

Why put a wagon on someone who isn't going to respond when we can wagon pressure on someone who will respond thus allowing us to get reads on them. Therefore because I find his particular voting and lurking to be scummy I

Unvote, Vote Kyle

[Espeonage]

Sorry, wrong link. Disregard last post.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 82#2109882

You even state in that post that you had suspicion cast on you, therefore failing to provide what was asked for.

[Espeonage]

ZOMG cool coloured text. No mistakes I can see.

[Espeonage]

Oh and Monkey. The fact that you jumped on Kyle straight after me has been noted.

[Espeonage]

AGM and xRx, what do both of you rate the possibility of a kyle-Monkey-??? scumteam at this point?

I ask you two as you seem both seem to have opinions on Monkey as well as the other main wagons.

[Espeonage]

Sorry Reck, I'm just not feeling the game right now. I need to be enjoying the game to be useful, and I'm not enjoying it right now.

Then replace out for someone who will be into the game.

[Espeonage]

Ok AGM and bob have convinced me against kyle for now so

Unvote

And so it isn't a great surprised for people to see my next action as

Vote: Monkey

[Espeonage]

I like the poll. Nifty.

[Espeonage]

I take is Nika is staying then?

[Espeonage]

What does ITT mean?

[Espeonage]

@Nika: Of the current wagons who would you feel best about lynching?

[Espeonage]

He could be a scum buddy to someone who is in the mix and wants to distance from all aspects of it and/or focus attention away.

[Espeonage]

I know it isn't probable. I was just pointing out that there is an explaination for everything and it isn't a good idea to rely on assumptions.
Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME.

[Espeonage]

I wasn't having a go at anything you said. It was just that you sounded pretty certain you were right.

[Espeonage]

@ the arguement earlier: I would follow a lynch if I thought the person was a vanilla townie early in the game if it were to be beneficial to the game as a whole. Noone can be sure that the people being wagoned aren't scum and therefore if they have reasonable reasoning against them and the voting has been as round-a-bout as it has then an innocent lynch isn't the worst thing in the world. It would be better to catch scum but the way the voting has gone a lynch of one of the three is one of the best things that could come out of the day due to the solid information that would come out of it.
This is a long game and just like chess sometimes you have to sacrifice a piece to put yourself in the position to checkmate.
I wouldn't be suggesting such a thing if the game were different, however we really need the information that would come out of lynching one of the three. I have nothing against discussing other people, I just think it isn't in the towns best interest to all of a sudden turn away from something potentially game-breaking.

[Espeonage]

Captain Obvious says that Monkey is at L-2.
Simple things like that fly over peoples heads so I figured I would point it out.

@ Nika: Now that you have unvoted will you be voting for one of them. I take it that you are interested in Monkey due to above post. I'm just wondering since we are getting close to crunch time.

[Espeonage]

Think though a boarderline is the best fake claim someone could come up with. The pressure is off due to the last two unvotes. I will keep my vote where it is for now, however I am still suspicious of Monkey as well.

[Espeonage]

EBWOP Kyle at the end there sorry.

[Espeonage]

Ok then. I think i missed the case on Neto. Could someone point that out for me?

Sakako's logic is sound. I still see him as a maths wizz newb-town.

[Espeonage]

@ Neto: Were you saying there is no case?

[Espeonage]

If there is a JOAT who is not named monkey then let them speak.

[Espeonage]

I am saying that if Monkey fake claimed then there could be a real JOAT

[Espeonage]

And that is defeatism as apposed to actually poking holes in peoples areguments against you.

[Espeonage]

Well I guess you don't know me very well. I don't really alter my meta based on my role.

Noone does.

[Espeonage]

No he talking about reacting to a certain situation. You have been rather non-chalant about the whole thing and Not reacting which is where the problem is. You ignore cases made against you and act as if nothing is happening.

[Espeonage]

That is only the latest installment of the case on you. btw he actually did back up the second of those points.

[Espeonage]

Well all the most recent people to have posted are the ones on his wagon so I guess we wait for people to wake up.

[Espeonage]

Was that a joke?

[Espeonage]

Why should we believe you this time if your first claim was fake?

[Espeonage]

If monkey flips scum I am suspicious of Hito. If Monkey is town then I don't mind his hesitation much.

[Espeonage]

Hmm... I would like to just say. We should be careful. With the amount of people we started with we could well be in a stage where one stray vote could end in a mafia pile on if there are three scum.

[Espeonage]

ebwop I just realised I posted this in the wrong site. Don't laugh it's after 3am and I'm sick.
Surprisingly close to being correct. lol

[Espeonage]

This is what I meant to copy paste.

What the hell.

unvote, vote: monkey

This did come after alot of discussion but it still looks bad considering he was already scummy. What do others think?

[Espeonage]

Anyone given some thought to the possibility that scum are just sitting back watching the town squabble over stupid things like which is better out of the two types of LaL?
Ok time to move back and look at what we have.
1. What all of a sudden has cleared kyle of all the suspicion he had on him yesterday?
2. Who the hell cares about Lying v Lurking both are bad get over that arguement. Neither of you will back down. Nothiong is going to be gained from the arguement except frustration and the possibility of a resultant mis-lynch.
3. hito: I would be interested to hear the rest of your wagon analysis which you said was coming a while ago but I think got forgotten.

[Espeonage]

Even though I mentioned it I don't think that kyle actually gained scum points from the hammer. Were I in his spot I would have hammered as well. I was more wondering what heppened to the suspicion on him yesterday. At the moment I can see Nika being town and arguing with other towns while scum sides with Nika.
I no longer have a top suspect but I will have a look through again tomorrow because i am moving out of home to board with a friend today so I probably wont be on again until tonight or tomorrow.

[Espeonage]

Stupid Internet doesn't work where i am living now. But luckily my internet quota is unlimited so I am back online now and should stay online. Sorry for being away.
I don't have time now, but i will have another look through by tomorrow.

Good to see you back! Hope your internet situation works out. ~KittyMo

[Espeonage]

Ok I have seen the cases people have made and this is my analysis I got from my skim over.
Lowell is suspicious for the reasons already mentioned. he comes in a second most likely scum atm.
kyle is ok as far as I see it. i actually think his inaction may be linked to not being 'in' to the game because he is VT or something. Not saying he is, just the vibe I am getting.
However i see the big target atm to be Neto. He seems to have over-reacted to the lowell case pointing to a scum team. I would be happy with either lynch at the moment.
So

Vote: Neto

Sorry about the sparse posting. it is second day of Uni and I am still settling in.

[Espeonage]

I was never suspicious of Saka and therefore I haven't actually dropped anything.

[Espeonage]

Honestly, I am behind. I have some time now to go back and have a good look see at the way things have been during my absence. My Neto vote was just the vibe I got from my quick skim seeing as I have no real certanties on people atm. I will come back with that in not too long. Hold on for maybe an hour or two and I will have my analysis started. I am going to try to do a file on each player so I'm just going to go in the order they are on OP so don't think that I am saying anything by the order I cover people. I shall be right back. They probably wont be too long but I will have a go at it.

[Espeonage]

Mod: OP needs to be updated coz I'm back

Thanks and done! ~KittyMod

[Espeonage]

Welcome Zach. Seems I have more on my plate than i thought. My full run down on everyone will probably be a feature for later on.

[Espeonage]

Not to do a Nika with the vote count but

Saka is a guy...

>_> <_< Sorry Sakako! The fact that people keep calling you Saka makes your name seem girlier. I really should remember better, considering how many times I've been miscalled a guy in total... It's just been a long day.

+ thanks, Espeonage. =] ~KittyMo

[Espeonage]

Sorry, I didn't realise I was getting close to prod again. My newbie game is more exciting atm.
Anyways. I don't really have much to say. I don't see any obvious scum atm. That said there are a few people who are looking on the bad side. The thing is that I have a suspicion that scum are some of the more active people and are somewhere arguing with each other well.

[Espeonage]

@ Hito: I know it was bad but I don't really have anything else to add at this stage.

[Espeonage]

a) It is the most logical number of scum.
b) More information is always useful and noone is clear in this game, yet. All of us have suspicion on us. therefore less potential mislynches is better.

No Lynch

[Espeonage]

Scum could slip... or town could dig holes. I do think we should end this day quickly.

[Espeonage]

*Does the BAH dance then gets shot by No Lynch.*

Go town...

[Espeonage]

That game was alot more fun than my first one. Thanks guys.

[Espeonage]

I voted you because you actually knew what you were doing once you started posting.