Mini 930:Morning People Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sucrose]

Hi everyone!

Being a morning-hater myself, this is a game I can really get into.

[Sucrose]

Vote: Deer

for running in front of my car.

[Sucrose]

I want to know what the symbol means.

[Sucrose]

Ironically enough, it means "g'morning".

That one little character means "good morning?" Japanese is awesome.

[Sucrose]

Hmmm.

Well, at any rate, I'm glad we've moved out of the RVS. (Is it just me, or do RVSs seem to

always

end when someone puts one too many votes on a bandwagon?)

Anyway, I'm pretty damn busy between work and college, so forgive me if I'm not on for certain stretches, but I'll still try and be as active as I can.

[Sucrose]

Rzhang, when you voted, did you think you were putting Deer at L-1 or L-2?

[Sucrose]

@rzhang
So if I'm understanding you right, your gambit was to make an irrational move and see how the players respond, right? Would you consider your gambit a success? If you do think you've spotted scummy replies, what good does it do to keep this information to yourself?

Hmm.

Unvote Deer

. The idea behind putting Deer at (originally, before the unvote) was to catch everyone off guard. If someone jumped off the second I put deer so close to a lynch, I'd lean towards them being town. If anybody simply ignored it and pretended that there wasn't about to be a player lynched D1, I'd assume they're scum or at least not pro-town. If anyone actually quicklynched, obvscum. It didn't work for a few reasons, unfortunately, although I am pretty convinced of rzhang's scumminess. I'll do a full reread when I have time.

Mmm, I disagree with this, especially since you announced you were pulling a gambit. Scum don't like attention on them, and by openly targeting the players on the bandwagon, that's what you were doing. Unvoters could be scum trying to take the heat off just as likely as they could be townies trying to avoid a lynch. I consider eagerness to please the town to be a scumtell. (although it can also a newbie tell)

[Sucrose]

EBWOP:(Although it can also be a newbie tell)

preview is your friend.

[Sucrose]

Interesting.

Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

This is the second wagon you’ve jumped on, and I don’t like it one bit.

Without talking about the actual events of an ongoing game I’ve been reading, Rzhang seems to always be a very erratic, noobish player. In other words, an easy lynch.

[Sucrose]

Fallen Angel admitted he was pulling a gambit. The unvote is null to me, you could just as easily have unvoted because Deer wasn't going to be lynched 3 pages in and it looked like a townie thing to do. WIFOM.

[Sucrose]

The way he talks seems confident, as if he knows everything. I'm not saying that he controls the town but has more knowledge than the rest of us. With all of his explanations, he is giving more of reasons why a situation or gambit or whatever else is possible, instead of defending himself directly.

Can you point out where in his posts it indicates/hints at him having prior/more knowledge?

For the most part, it's the way he's making his posts, his tone, etc. that is making me think this.

I was looking through his posts in this thread, but unfortunately I didn't find anything to give concrete support. All I can say about this is that its my general feeling I get from reading his posts.

I have to have time to think about this, and think about my opinion of him again. Until then,

unvote

Your bandwagoning twice then backing down twice when under pressure has certainly been noted. I also couldn't disagree more with your assessment of rzhang.

[Sucrose]

Fallen Angel's replacing out isn't quite as bad as Rzhang's. Rzhang was under heavy pressure, FA was not. It'd be nice if replacee's would at least give us a one-sentence explanation of why they are bailing, though.

[Sucrose]

Unvote. Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS

. Sorry, I missed that in the rules.

But I don't like how Sucrose was effectively joining my bandwagon as he complained about me jumping on bandwagons.

What bandwagon? The only vote on you when I voted was an RVS.

OH, sorry I misread... Like I said in the post I am in untested waters here and don't know what to think but someone asked for my input so I gave it. I was going to stay relatively quiet till replacements came and I got back on stable footing and let those who are much better at this keep the game up till then. (Please don't see this as Lurking as that is not my intention, I'm just trying not to make a confusing situation, at least to me, worse)

Wait, wait, wait. You

misread

and accidentally wound up with a scum link between Rzhang and Fallen Angel? Huh? What exactly was it that you misread to make you think that?

[Sucrose]

Heh, I'll take that double-vote.

Anyway, It'll be nice when the replacements show up so the thread can continue. I dislike how few people are showing up during this period even with questions on them.

[Sucrose]

Confirm Vote: Smashbro_of_the_SSS.

I don't see bold.

Asking what about his play is scummy=

big

scumtell.

Anyway I'm glad both of our replacements are in.

Does anyone else think rz replacing out (or FA for that matter) compounds suspicions that were already on them?

I don't think I answered this question, so...

Not really, because as I said earlier, I would best describe RZ's play style as "random and newbish." That's not to say he couldn't be scum, but I think it would be foolish to count replacing out as a major point against him. I see FA replacing out as mostly null as well, since the pressure that was on him had already shifted to other players by the time he replaced.

[Sucrose]

Welcome replacements.

Spyrex - What is your opinion on your predecessor's playing. Who at the moment is your top suspect? Do you feel the current smash wagon is justified? What do you think about the original bandwagon that happened on rzhang?

Asking what about his play is scummy= big scumtell.

Are you referring to the following quote? Or to something else?

Smash: "Also, deer brings up an interesting point, what are the exact reasons for my play being scummy? Is it just this quote, saying that bandwagoning would help, the makes me scummy?"

Also sucrose, other then smash, who is the next most likely contender to be scum to you?

The deadline is looming people! Let's get scumhunting!

Yeah, that quote. Scum wants to know what about their play is giving them away, and they might go so far as to mention it outloud. But that's only combined with the other scummy things Smashbro has done.

My second-highest suspect? Water_foul, who never did answer my question about what made him "mistakenly" think Rz and FA were a scum team. Unfortunately, I know SpyreX is a good player and will be a lot harder to read.

[Sucrose]

I was just using "Confirm Vote: SSS" as a way to say if I wasn't already voting for SSS, I would be now. It's not a real vote, so I didn't bold it. Sorry, didn't mean to cause any confusion.

[Sucrose]

Yep. I'd say there was almost certainly at least one scum on the SSSS wagon. I'm a little more suspicious of Dragonfly than Deer though, but I’ll get back to that later.

Some of the stuff Water_foul said still baffles me, but a couple things SpyreX said just before the lynch seem genuine enough for me to drop him down a couple places on the suspicion list.

After some re-reading, my main suspect right now is Peanut Man. And this is going to sound a little strange, but he's actually my main suspect because of the way he avoided the SSSS wagon. I think it's weird that peanut didn't say

anything

about SSSS or Rzhang's play, only that he thought they weren't likely to be scum because they were the main targets D1.

Of my limited time on mafiascum (about 4-5 games), the scummiest players lynched D1 have always turned out to be town. In fact, it's through probing and questionning that the scum blow up the case much bigger than it is (though the suspects don't help themselves by digging their hole). Therefore, although the likes of SSSS and rzhang didn't always behave in a townie way, I don't think they are the best lynches for today. I'm skeptical of lynches of the most obvious candidates on D1.

That being said, I'm not claiming that rzhang/Dragonfly and SSSS must be townies, but I feel it's more beneficial to go after those who aren't in (and attracting by their responses) the limelight. Let's be honest, if those two are town, they are easy for scum to push and lynch without rousing too much suspicion from their accusations.

That's why I'm leaning more towards Water_Foul (though, if I were to judge Spyrex alone, I wouldn't be at all) for the reasons previously stated, or Nobody Special, given his requesting more activity and yet not commenting on it when it comes. His only comment is post 263 since the uptake in activity. Because I find Spyrex to be more helpful to the town, I will

unvote, vote : Nobody Special

And then I noticed this:

This is peanut man covering himself, saying that he doesn't want to lynch one of the scummiest candidates, and takes basically no position on whether or not he sees us as scummy. So far, he has not taken a stance on anyone who is likely to be lynched, and so is helping to stay out of the spotlight.

With all of the input already on you both, I feel that I don't have anything new that hasn't already been said. In essence, I would be adding white noise to the whole debate. I prefer to bring something new and different, so the town is not tunneling on just one or two players. So, SSSS, I do believe you haven't played an excellent game, but I don't find you the scummiest, far from it. So, I can either just follow everyone else, place a vote on one of the two BWs by repeating what others have said in my own words, or I can look elsewhere, where I believe I'm more likely to find scum.

To sum up, I feel that tacking onto the SSSS/DF discussions is staying out of the spotlight by blending with everyone else. By separating from that and talking about others, I am singling myself out to some extant, spreading the spotlight to others as well.

Peanut says he doesn't think SSSS and Rzhang are likely to be scum, but then says that he could "either just follow everyone else, place a vote on one of the two BWs by repeating what others have said in my own words, or I can look elsewhere, where I believe I'm more likely to find scum."

There's something I don't like with the reasoning between these two posts. By saying he

could

place a vote on one of the two BWs and repeat what others have said in his own words, he implies that he finds Rz and SSSS scummy enough to potentially vote for. But earlier in the same paragraph, he told SSSS that "I don't find you the scummiest, far from it." He then says he doesn't want to vote for Rz and SSSS because voting for them would keep him out of the spotlight, i.e. be a go-with-the-flow, scummy thing to do.

Conclusion: Peanut seems more interested in what does or does not go with the flow of the town than if SSSS or Rzhang are actually scum, and it strikes me as wrong. I'll make an accusation that in the two posts I've quoted, Peanut is making a show of making obvious "pro-town" moves, while not actually doing much at all. He also

looks like

he's drawing attention away from SSSS and onto Nobody Special, yet he doesn't make much of a case against Nobody Special at all.

Vote: Peanut Man

[Sucrose]

http://xkcd.com/391/

There you go, Mod.

[Sucrose]

JB - Thoughts on Sucrose?

After some re-reading, my main suspect right now is Peanut Man. And this is going to sound a little strange, but he's actually my main suspect because of the way he avoided the SSSS wagon. I think it's weird that peanut didn't say anything about SSSS or Rzhang's play, only that he thought they weren't likely to be scum because they were the main targets D1.

Seeing how I discussed this way earlier and accused peanut of it way before, why didn't you comment on it back then?

Also, I want to hear your case on dragon.

...

I noticed it, but wrote it off as a minor thing at the time. Honestly, I guess I was tunneled on SSSS and wasn't thinking deeply about why Peanut Man might make the arguments he was making. I also didn't notice the contradiction in post #305 until I read Peanut in ISO, which to me is more suspicious than just stating he wouldn't follow the bandwagon.

I don't really have a full case on Dragonfly. Mostly I didn't particularly like his discussion of his predecessor Rz's play (such as rating his scumminess, which seems nonsensical) Also, the shakiness of Rz's play. It's not something I'd want to lynch over at this point, just something that keeps me wary. This is all assuming that there's at least one scum on the SSSS wagon.

[Sucrose]

My argument is that the other major wagon (rz/me) is more likely to have been manipulated by scum.

@DF: I read th entire post this came from, and it still doesn't hold much water with me. Can you clarify, exactly,

how

you came to the conclusion that one wagon was more likely than the other to have had scum involvement? I just don't see it, sorry.

There are, what, four people on V/LA till the weekend? This game needs more oomph.

I can see

why

he would think this (if he's town), since he knows his own alignment, but it's a useless point to make, since we don't.

[Sucrose]

@NS:

What's your opinion of peanutman? What do you think of JB?

I think peanutman is playing very pro-town; much better than I thought of FA. I'm not quite clear on how peanutman is so suspicious of me, though. I've been a bit busy, yes; but It's not like I'm Actively Lurking or anything. I'm not purposely ignoring any questions.

As far as jbernier93 is concerned (did I get his name perfectly right? I'd hate to have him mad at me for not paying attention or some nonsense.) I think he's quite potentially scum -- I've been in a game or two with him and he's playing .... oddly this time out. plus, some of his ideas are just ... weird.

Mind being specific? What about his play is odd?

[Sucrose]

Sorry, have been busy. I'll try and post more, promise.

Sucrose - What is your current view on deer?

I'm not sure about him. My thoughts on a read-through of his ISO:

He attacks SSSS for jumping on his "gambit" wagon, but then seems pleased with him when he unvotes. His attacks on Rzhang for Rzhang's "gambit" seem reasonable.
I have a hard time seeing his move from attacking Rzhang/Dragonfly to attacking SSSS as scummy because at the time, I thought the exact same things. In conclusion, I don't get as good a townie feel from him as I do from some other posters, but his lurking is generally the only suspicious thing he's done.

I was feeling a lot better about Dragonfly up until post #367:

Well, because I'm not confirmed town at this point, SSSS's wagon was more likely to have been manipulated by scum.

What?

Regardless of that, my top two scum suspects are Peanutman and Nobody Special.

[Sucrose]

I was feeling a lot better about Dragonfly up until post #367

What's off about his post 367? This isn't exactly a new accusation against Dragon. I believe he talked about this D1 as well. Why bring it up now instead of before?

Also, how do you feel about Peanut's latest actions? Given that you are pretty suspicious of him I'm surprised you haven't commented on any of Peanut's d2 activity. Seems like you just threw out a suspect just to have a suspect that wasn't

I meant that the quote stuck out to me as not making sense. DF knows his alignment, to himself, he should be a confirmed townie. Thus, from DF's perspective, how does SSSS flipping town make SSSS's wagon more likely to be scumled?
The rest of the post is haphazard enough that it doesn't really move him much up my scumlist, though.

I have the exact same suspicions of Peanut that I had before, he just hasn't dropped any scumtells in his latest posts.

Good opening post, RedCoyote, I'll have to think on that.

[Sucrose]

Thanks. I guess my biggest question of you is, why did you not push wf more yesterday? Do you think he adequately explained himself? Do you think the replacing out threw you off some? Did you think Spyrex made up for it?

Water_foul made two baffling posts, then replaced before he answered any of my questions. Spyrex made some comments near the end of D1 that seemed very, very genuine to me, so yeah, he’s kind of made up for it. Unfortunately, like I said when he replaced in, he's a good player and I'm sure he's more than capable of faking good townie reactions. I would be stupid to completely disregard Water_foul’s comments, hell, I myself just won a scum game after replacing a horrible player who the town just sort of forgot about after he replaced.

On the other hand, I've seen bizarre, WTF actions by people who have flipped town too. I don't see those D1 comments as good enough to solely base a lynch off of.

Okay, now a question for you. What do you think of Nobody Special? Do you think him and Jbernier are in an either/neither situation?

[Sucrose]

Oh no, long is good. That was much more concise.

[Sucrose]

Aw Hell.

Mod, can we have an official votecount please?

For the record, I personally think it's more likely we have one rather than two scum on the SSSS wagon.

[Sucrose]

I change my mind. We should lynch NS today.

Unvote; Vote: Nobody Special

I agree.

Unvote. Vote: Nobody Special

[Sucrose]

Gah. Why the vote switch to NS? Just because NS has been scummier in the last page or so than Peanutman. Granted, I still think Peanutman is pretty scummy, but NS outranks him at this point. Although with both Peanutman and Jbernier on an L-1 wagon, I am having second thoughts.

Anyway,

V/LA for the next two days.

Not going anywhere, just extremely busy.

[Sucrose]

What do you want me to explain? Peanut posted nothing, NS posted a bunch of scummy stuff. Sure, nothingness is suspicious on its own, but between no posting and scummy posting, scummy posting is more suspicious.

I am well aware the theory that NS is scum contradicts the theory that Peanutman is scum.

You're still essentially ignoring me and Nikanor, and as Nikanor is about to bring up, peanut hasn't posted since Tuesday.

Also I like how you throw out "I am having second thoughts", but you don't really follow up on it.

Like Nikanor, Sucrose has really kind of taken a nose dive in my townreads with her last couple of posts. I absolutely hate this post.

I’m juggling probabilities. I personally think the scummiest players are NS, Peanut, Jbern, and DF, in about that order. I think we were legitimately very, very close an NS lynch a page ago, so the probability of Peanut (assuming he’s lurking if he’s scum) or Jbern being scumbuddies with NS is very low.
There's no real reason to unvote now though, NS isn't in any immediate danger.

Unvote. Vote: Sucrose.

peanutman hasn't even

posted

in the last page or so. Do you not find lurking through a building bandwagon scummy?

peanutman was there before you were. That's not to mention that your suspicions of NS have seemingly come out of nowhere. In the post where you vote peanutman, you mention something of peanut distracting votes from smashbro onto NS, which would be more of an anti-link than a link.
After your vote on peanutman, you mention NS in two posts, neither of which say he is specifically scummy. Then, a couple posts later, you say that NS is one of your top suspects? Talk about hopping onto a bandwagon.

My accusation in post #322 was the peanut was essentially posting helpful-sounding fluff, not that peanut was actually trying to move the lynch off of SSSS or get NS lynched. That said I don't really think Peanut and NS are scumbuddies.

Vote: SpyreX

Totally scum.
I'll figure out the reasons why later.

ROFL

Hello SocioPath! Is this a serious vote?

[Sucrose]

Unvote

The more I think about it, the more I just don't buy Peanutman and Jbernier both being town, and at this point I'm convinced neither of them were bussing.

I've thought Sucrose to be scum since her postings regarding rzhang.
Who was totally town, and was one of the few rational people early on in the game.

Really?

[Sucrose]

To answer Red's questions:

What do you want me to explain?

Why you think it's likely the SSSS wagon has 1 scum rather than more.

Mostly because of the players on it, and because as Spyrex said, scum love to let the town lynch itself.

Why we should delibrately ignore the SSSS wagon. Why it's not advantageous to the town to capitalize on it.

I never said anything like this.

I am well aware the theory that NS is scum contradicts the theory that Peanutman is scum.

I think the issue Nikanor brought up was that you were pushing peanutman, and one of your main points for doing so was this,

Conclusion: Peanut seems more interested in what does or does not go with the flow of the town than if SSSS or Rzhang are actually scum, and it strikes me as wrong. I'll make an accusation that in the two posts I've quoted, Peanut is making a show of making obvious "pro-town" moves, while not actually doing much at all. He also

looks like

he's drawing attention away from SSSS and onto Nobody Special,

yet he doesn't make much of a case against Nobody Special at all

.

(Emphasis added).

So you calling NS out as scum, abruptly switching from your past idea that peanutman was partly suspicious for drawing attention onto NS without really building a case, seems contradictory.

Yeah, my own realization that Peanut

probably

wasn't bussing NS weakens my case in that post a bit, but the main gist of it was that Peanut was trying to look townish while not really doing much. If Peanut/Socio is scum, it wouldn't really matter if it SSSS or NS got mislynched, as long as there was a mislynch.

There's no real reason to unvote now though, NS isn't in any immediate danger.

Well you can't change what has happened, but you seem very much to be playing the field here. It's almost like you're just throwing arbitrary suspicions out there.

Let me ask you this, because I don't know the answer off the top of my head. If I went back through your posts in isolation, would I find you pressuring NS either earlier today or on D1?

No, you wouldn't, because he was more or less a neutral read D1, then started making multiple iffy posts D2. I've attacked the people I think are scummy. If they're neutral to you (I can't imagine seeing Peanut/Socio, NS, or JBern as townish) that's fine, but they're not random to me.

[Sucrose]

Ugh. This seems so backwards to me. You, Spyrex, and chau all think this then? That the SSSS wagon was this pure bastion of townies. Surely no one had any untoward motivations for lynching SSSS, and surely no one took advantage of his poor posts to get a townie lynch to go through.

No, there's almost certainly at least one scum on the SSSS wagon. All I'm saying is that when I'm scum, I like to avoid the mislynch wagon. The players on the lynching wagon are always scrutinized. Letting a townie be lynched and then lynching a town player on the wagon is a great double mislynch for scum.

Lynching a player on the wagon because you're sure there's always multiple scum on a mislynch wagon seems like a bad strategy to me. (I realize this sounds like self-preservation, but I really do believe it)

For the record I think this whole debate is pointless and going in circles.

If they're neutral to you (I can't imagine seeing Peanut/Socio, NS, or JBern as townish) that's fine, but they're not random to me.

They certainly aren't neutral to me (look where my vote is), but are you telling me you're basically willing to lynch any of those three who gains a majority of support? Do you like Socio's opening posts? Do you think there is anything to the fact that his first vote was on you? Why aren't you asking these questions, especially when (I thought) peanut was your biggest suspect?

Did you miss my post where I just unvoted NS because I didn't like the odds?

[Sucrose]

Vote: Sociopath

[Sucrose]

To be fair, I think his mind was unable to comprehend "Rzhang was totally town and one of the few rational people in the game."

[Sucrose]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't buy Peanutman and Jbernier both being

town

, and at this point I'm convinced neither of them were bussing.

Oh, hello scum-slip!

Huh? I meant that. That was my whole reason for unvoting NS.

[Sucrose]

damn you quote tags.

[Sucrose]

Didn't you think they were both scum?

They might be.

You seemed to think I meant to write the opposite though, so now I'm really confused.

[Sucrose]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't buy Peanutman and Jbernier both being town, and at this point I'm convinced neither of them were bussing.

You thought that peanutman and jb were scummy, correct?

Yeah, when I said "The more I think about it, the more I just don't buy Peanutman and Jbernier both being town,"

I meant

"The more I think about it, the more I just don't buy Peanutman and Jbernier both being town."

[Sucrose]

Did you think they were scummy, though? Because I don't see why you'd say that you don't buy them being town if they were scummy to you.

What? Yes, I think they're scummy. Scummy is the opposite of town. Am I missing something here?

[Sucrose]

OHHH. I get it now. Never mind, I'm just going crazy.

While you're here: why did you vote for SocioPath?

Because deadline is in two days, and I think he/Peanut is the scummiest, plus the reason in the argument we just had. Like I told Red Coyote, I thought Peanut might be partnered with NS when I made my first post accusing him of being scum, but I think there's still a good chance Peanut just targeted a random townie when he made his "looking helpful" posts in post #284 and subsequent posts.

[Sucrose]

Unvote, Vote: JBernier

. I'm not gonna be here at deadline.

I believe that's L-1. Somebody friggin vote.

[Sucrose]

Can anyone promise to be here at deadline? At this point I'm not even sure Jbern's going to show up. There's three players that haven't posted in days, and it's uh, not good.

[Sucrose]

Okay guys, five and a half hours 'til deadline. Go ahead in lynch him without a claim if he doesn't show up within the next 3 hours or so. Unless he and another person show up, he's the only possible lynch anyway.

[Sucrose]

WTF WTF WTF.

Unvote. Vote: Nobody Special

Mod, I realize we're 20 minutes past deadline, but I believe many people were confused about time zones, so if you'd extend it a couple hours, that'd be really really really great.

[Sucrose]

I assumed the deadline was in his own timezone. Sorry, is there some sort of official Mafia Scum timezone I'm not aware of?

Oh well, I've hammered, and I don't regret it.

[Sucrose]

Oh hey, the thread's open.

I support a JB claim too.

[Sucrose]

Oh hey, the thread's open.

I support a JB claim too.

After really thinking about it, I don't think a JB claim

is

going to help us, so I retract my vote. I don't think JB should claim unless he's at L-1.

[Sucrose]

Let's wait until the replacements get here before anybody does any claimin', at least.

[Sucrose]

I'm a vig. Depending on how scum communication works, the last scum may or may not already know that, because I was roleblocked D1. (tried to kill DF) This is why I wanted to wait for the replacements.

Now that the main mystery has been solved, the rest of you should not claim. If there's not a doctor, I'm dead, and if there is a doctor, it's better not to claim due to the chance we might be going into MYLO.

[Sucrose]

I was very surprised when SSSS flipped town, I was sure we'd caught scum. I chose DF because RZ was scummy and he only slightly alleviated my concerns.

D2 He and Peanut basically flip-flopped. I thought I'd found some serious scum-tells D2 from Peanut, and DF started coming across to me as more townie. By the end of the day DF was flaking out, and RedCoyote seemed scummier, was an active player, and most importantly was entirely off the NS wagon, so I killed him. I intentionally tried not to talk about my likely night-targets either day, so as not to make it obvious that I was the vig. Although if NS flipped town, I would have killed Jbern.

[Sucrose]

ninja'd but I think I answered your question.

[Sucrose]

If I get lynched, that means scum will kill one person during the night, which leaves us with 4= MYLO, right? Or am I making some sort of horrible miscalculation?

[Sucrose]

Okay, if you see a bigger benefit to this than just outing the doctor, I'm all for it. I just hope this is going somewhere.

[Sucrose]

Well, now the demands for a mass-claim make sense. I’m surprised there’s a cop, this makes a hell of a powerful town. But with the RB dead I don’t see how we can lose.

I’ve had Chau at the top of my townie list all game, so I don’t doubt her claim in the slightest.

What we should do is this:

Lynch Nika.
Chau will be NKed
Sucrose Kills Ythan (just in case)

I like this.

IT'S CUZ YOU ARE A GODFATHER DOOFUS!
Also, stalling on a claim is really really really very scummy.

It’s okay, if Ythan's a godfather, he’ll be a dead one.

Sucrose, were you explicitly told that you were blocked?

No, my kill just didn't go through. There’s no other explanation for it, though.

The problem with your plan is that being a jailkeeper does not prove your alignment. Having two scum roleblocker or roleblocker-ish roles would be weird, but with two offensive town power roles it does make a sort of sense.

The only possible drawback to chau’s plan is if there’s a godfather, but that seems a lot less likely than a two-PR mafia.
It’s also really suspicious that your alternate plan keeps you alive until LYLO, while Ythan is perfectly willing to be vigged if it prevents a mislynch.

[Sucrose]

Also, a vig, a cop, and a jailkeeper against a three-person mafia seems ridiculous.

[Sucrose]

Roleblocker is a weak power role. Cop and Vig are extremely strong power roles. I can see it.

Sorry, but this and claiming you jailed Chau, but were roleblocked, is too much for me to swallow.

[Sucrose]

Hm..

Lynch Spy
Shoot Wolf
investigate Nika
Nika 'jails'
Ythan chills out

Sucrose will probably die but his kill should go through so...

If everyone flips town but I am blocked, we lynch Ythan. If I'm not blocked then we lynch Nika.

Hm. Can anyone found a way for a scum Nika to survive this scenario?

What if Nika is a scum jailer?

[Sucrose]

Look, okay.
We lynch Ythan today.
Sucrose can shoot me.
I'll jail chau to keep her alive. If Ythan isn't scum, it means that there is a godfather in the game and that her inpects are useless anyway. I don't want to keep Sucrose alive because there's still the possibility of her being an SK.

That way we can go to endgame with a better list of people (chau, Wolf, Spy instead of Sucrose, Wolf/Spy/Ythan).

I think we should do some scumhunting today, but I'm not entirely sure that I should be the one to do it.
I have a problem with tunnel vision, you see.

Unvote. Vote: Ythan.

I can go along with this. You die, Ythan dies, I die, and Chau has at least a 50/50 chance of lynching the godfather if Ythan isn't the last scum. My kill will go through regardless if I get killed or not, so having Chau be the one alive at endgame is our best option, because she won't be mislynched.

To state the obvious, if tonight I die and Nik doesn't, he should be lynched immediately.

[Sucrose]

Where is this mystical second roleblock coming from?

There was an argument before about the possibilities of a two-roleblocker scum team. I was thinking two weak scum roles would be a rational counter to two strong town-roles, but if Nik's willing to get shot tonight and it'll be an INSTA-LYNCH if I die and get roleblocked, I can't see the flaw with his plan.

[Sucrose]

I will tomorrow if someone doesn't come up with a better plan. I'm exhausted right now and don't want to leave a vote hanging there.

[Sucrose]

Well I'm stumped. I kinda doubt scum would be dumb enough to think Nik was lying about being a jailkeeper. But since Chau would have to be scum player of the year to be scum, I'm for lynching and shooting.

Let's think about it, though. No rushing.

[Sucrose]

OK. I don't see any drawbacks to NoLynching, other than that Chau might get killed, and she's as close to a confirmed townie as we've got. I CANNOT kill at night, if I'm wrong and mafia makes a kill, mafia would win, correct?

Yes, I killed Nik, that was the plan. I totally wouldn't buy that there's a NK-immune, investigation-immune godfather, but discussing that's pointless anyway because I shot Nik.

[Sucrose]

Chau being confirmed (if you are town) is nice and all but the fact is simple: if scum exists they absolutely can NOT have you alive tomorrow for any chance at a win.

I don't quite understand this, but since I can't see how the No Lynch will hurt us...

Vote: No Lynch

[Sucrose]

I agree

Vote: The Lone Wolf

[Sucrose]

Sheesh, half a page of arguments about why I'm not an SK written up and I don't even get to use them.

Nice game everyone.

[Sucrose]

Mod, out curiosity, was I NK or investigation-immune?

There was nothing in my role pm to suggest it, but I was waffling on if I was bulletproof all game and almost lost because of it.

I blame you first for not jailing Sucrose and then going "lolwut nokills?" And basically suiciding D3. But that's just because I <3 you.

....Hmmm, yeah, if we had nolynched D3 and jailed me, I can't think of any way I could have won.

[Sucrose]

Yeah, I thought I was screwed when I realized I had to make a kill N4.

This was my first non-newbie game, and I was unaware of the "kills go through" rule, and thought there was another mafioso with me D4 until someone brought it up. I'm not sure I would have claimed if I'd known about it.

[Sucrose]

Personally I wouldn't have claimed Vig. But whatever, it worked.

I was originally only going to use it as a backup plan if I got to L-1, but D4 I thought there was a mafioso who knew who I was due to the roleblock, and would nightkill me sometime before endgame.

I did kill RedCoyote to back up my Vig claim, I figured he was either scum or the most justifiable vig kill.

[Sucrose]

Heh I didn't even think to look at the kill flavors either, my case against Sucrose and there not being a mafia left shows as much.

Then again my case can really boiled down to crying softly and picturing Spyrex sleeping peacefully in his sleep dreaming "heheh I got scum" while Sucrose lurked in the shadows with his hammer.

Lessons learned: live in the same timezone as the people you play with so you can beg more effectively. Also never, ever listen to Nikanor with his Lolsetup speculation.
And read the flavor, the mod spends a lot of time on it and wants to reward players that do by saying "HAI LOOK DA MAF KILLS STOPPED" >_>b

I'd be interested in seeing your case against you not being a SK if you still want to post them Sucrose, because I'm pretty sure I had you pegged.

Like I said, I pretty much thought I was screwed, but I was going to try, dammit.

All of my planned arguments were only going to be aimed at Spyrex. Basically, I was going to be all "woe is me, the scum is going to win, he's setting me up." I was going to say that your player spot had been scummy all game, and that the only possible way for you to win was to get me lynched, and that was why I was left alive. In a three player LYLO of Chau, Spy, and TLW, Chau and Spy were always going to lynch you. You were cleverly going to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by setting up my lynch.

...I have no idea if any of this would have worked, and it would have completely fallen apart if someone had figured out the kill-flavor.

Oh, and I'm a she.

Syke, I thought the game was balanced just fine. Thanks for the game.