Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[Fate]

Eu quiera açaí.

[Fate]

Vote: Almaster

Before he shoots someone.

[Fate]

Revote: Almaster

Agreed that Zhang is a sad sack. Just meta the poor guy.

[Fate]

God LORD? No need to be redundant Spyrex...

>_>'
<_<;

And what are you waiting for? NIGHT maybe? So you can KILL PEOPLE!?

OH MY GOD!

[Fate]

It is just me and Budja. DDD is seemingly voting Almaster for a joke reason.

What makes Dx3's vote look any better than horror's to you RC?

Horror jumped on a bandwagon, compared to Dx3 not commenting on the Zang situation and just jokevoting?

[Fate]

Vote: Al GM

for having a lie detector and not sharing... /pout

THIS is who I meant, not DDD. I have no idea why I got the names mixed up (Panther avatars? >_>).

Why is Kthx's vote any better than Horror's, RC?

[Fate]

Revote: Almaster

Agreed that Zhang is a sad sack. Just meta the poor guy.

you misspell my name and call me a sad sack

Sorry, someone I play with on another site is Zhang. At least I didn't vote for you?

I like how people are calling me fluffy and unsubstantive when we have these two posts from Fate. They seem significantly more guilty of this crime than me. Budja and RC, why the delay or no response to Fate's posts?

I thought RC was all right with fluffy posts? Or he likes candy bars... or something.

My vote on you was pretty much just for a competing wagon, I didn't feel your vote switch was scummy, but I didn't think Zang was scummy either which I said in my revote post.

Unvote as we are no longer in RVS. I'll see if I can find someone that's suspicious IMO

Bwhahhahahaha. Wrong answer! You were voting him because wagons are full of win, I thought? But you didn't stick by that reasoning.

Shame, shame.

Unvote:

Vote: Horrordude

[Fate]

Vote: Al GM

for having a lie detector and not sharing... /pout

THIS is who I meant, not DDD. I have no idea why I got the names mixed up (Panther avatars? >_>).

Why is Kthx's vote any better than Horror's, RC?

Uh, time for some self-deprecating analysis:

I got DDD confused with D3x because I thought DDD was a nickname for D3x because I thought his name was actually Dx3 which would mean D "times three" or three D's.

I then made the jump from D3x to Kthx because THEY both had panther avatars, not DDD and Kthx.

Now that I have you all thoroughly entertained or confused:
@Zang: Ok we get it, you're over-defensive. Can you start looking for scum now?
@Horror: Who do you think is most likely scum on your wagon? Off your wagon?

[Fate]

*wagon forms*

*wagon target disappears*

*town looks around, confused*

[Fate]

Well since all our wagons have been for "appeasement"

Unvote:

Vote: Cruelty

He seems like a good substitute until that other old guy gets back.

[Fate]

Gosh, you sound certain there Fate.

Not leaving the horror wagon just because he is away.

Well we have a month before the deadline, but wagoning an absentee just isn't productive. Rather get a read out of Cruelty in the meantime.

Sorry to hear about that Horror.

[Fate]

Kthx, though I liked your post because it you took a stance and such, lying about something so trivial is a null tell.

Maybe he was embarrassed to have not read the rules and was backtracking?
I think scum would be more careful not to lie, i.e. "yeah I didn't read them. oops." or he could be paranoid scum afraid of a scumtell (see: Spyrex asking Zang if not reading the rules is a scumtell).

That said, my vote is still on cruelty and will remain so until post #98 is resolved. "I'd vote him if he had less votes on him." <- explain this line of reasoning, and then your subsequent vote on him after it was pointed out by d3x he only had one vote.

@RC: Hopefully, though I like to mix it up. I didn't sound townie for awhile in that PYP II game as power when I got pushed to L-1 remember?

@Zang wagon: While Zang is clearly the easy lynch today, it is borderline policy lynching. I think we have a experienced enough town this game that we can overcome needing to policy lynch a VI. For those happy with their Zang vote (d3x, AGM, RC), is there anyone else that has acted scummy as opposed to just plain stupid/confused?

[Fate]

I read you explanation. I didn't like it.

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

If you think he is town and is suspectible to a L-2 quick lynch (yeah I wish scum would suicide themselves like that on D1), why are you voting him at all regardless of what votes he is at?

The only, "he has too many votes on him, otherwise I would vote him" argument I would accept is if he would be hammered by your vote. L-1 is up for debate, I agree that no one has done anything to warrant L-1 yet, but L-2? No reason you can't put him there if he's your suspect.

[Fate]

DDD beat me to it.

It isn't a risk that town should be afraid of. Hell I bet even AGM (if town) would be in favor of a L-2 quicklynch on him.

So AGM is both the scummiest player and also quite possible town? Sure by raw statistics our D1 lynch isn't going to hit scum, but I thought the point of D1 mafia was to lynch the scummiest player.

[Fate]

(and I'm very conscious that Zang is in the game), then

scum can quickly hammer,

getting 2 chances to knock off town assets + gaining the benefit of town going into

day2 essentially blind.

Two chances? I'll assume you are referring to the lynch and the nightkill combined, but that's basically what happens D1 anyway.

ALSO, read the bolded parts. What the hell? What town in their ***ing mind would be "blind" D2 if scum QUICKHAMMERED D1?

Then again I don't want to tunnel someone for "playstyle differences." I'll continue to watch you today, though.

@Spyrex: Someone's got to say it =/

[Fate]

Cruelty you're stubborn. Too stubborn. Stubborn as Bouncy was in that PYP...

Unvote

I don't want to go down that road again. Will be back later to re-read and choose another road to go down.

[Fate]

I have no idea what you're referring to but alright.

Well in another game I tunneled a townie for "anti-town" or "irrational" (in my eyes) play. He kept defending his decision to use random.org to decide his Night action target, and I kept hammering how fundamentally wrong he was. He kept defending himself and being stubborn about it though.

Just like how you're being stubborn about 1 scum for 3 townies being a bad trade. You're continued defense of this position tells me that you actually believe this to be true, so I can't really vote you for a disagreement of correct play.

I suppose that was a good "side-wagon" for today.

Vote: Horror

said he'd be back tomorrow.

[Fate]

Horror was my vote before he went V/LA. I voted him in expectation of him coming back from V/LA, as no other suspect went higher than him on my list in that time.

I guess you're reading too much into me saying, "said he'd be back tomorrow" right after my vote. My intention was:"He said he was going to be back tomorrow, so I'll take my place back on the wagon."

As opposed to it being a direct explanation for my vote.

[Fate]

Meh, waiting to hear from horror. As for questions, just the basic analysis of the game so far, ideally throwing down a vote.

The problem with Zang's lynch is that being on it is a null-tell. It really boils down to whether you have played with him before. He's a better Vig target than a lynch, imo.

The Blood God wants more high quality lynches!!!

[Fate]

DEATH TO ALL GAME DISCRIMINATORS! OURS ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU!?

[Fate]

Kthx has good questions. There's really nothing you can say though, as I expect this, "I don't know what horror was thinking. I wish I could get inside his head, etc. etc."

Miller claim screams of last minute defense of an otherwise irreparable situation.

DDD's defense of me was more of a "I interpreted his post differently" sort of thing, while RC did blatantly call me townie (as well as a few others) and it is noted.

[Fate]

I just can't get on board with you on this one. I want to, but I can't.



It's Miller time.


If I were vig, I'd shoot SpyreX.

*notices that Porkens didn't unvote*

Um, what is it that can't you get on board with?

[Fate]

Hold off on the hammer, I agree with Kthx about at least hearing from some more people, as in, all the people Kthx listed.

[Fate]

I can't get on board with the idea that Zang is Lawful Good. I have no interest in unvoting. have I expressed some?

No, just thought that was the thing you weren't on board with Spyrex with was the DS lynch. This was further thought to be the case when you said "Its Miller team" as in, it was time to believe the miller?

Meh, it is all cleared up now.

[Fate]

And RedCoyote is the alternative to your lynch, DeathSauce? Surely you can admit the case on you is stronger than the one post case on RC or DDD.

[Fate]

If both town and scum benefit from lynching him, why do you say:

I don't think he's ever a really acceptable lynch

which seems like a direct contradiction?

[Fate]

d3x:

This is what can happen if you let a Miller slide: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30&start=0

^Hoopla claimed D1 and coasted to endgame. I'm a fan of first-post miller claims, as that is when it would be riskiest as scum to do it (draw a counter-claim), and best as town to do it (don't waste an investigation on me, and I'm saying this before any suspicion is on anyone).

[Fate]

Well you're still mostly lying. Tell us the truth so we don't have to wait for the mod.

[Fate]

What do you mean "another" DDD? Linkz, plz.

[Fate]

Scum probably didn't have the balls to try and kill AGM and fail. I'm guessing the doc then WIFOM'd and protected someone else. Just speculation though.

I'm going to give this game another read when I have more time. Been a bit busy with work lately.

[Fate]

Holy shit.

[Fate]

It's nothing personal against you man, you replaced into a bad situation. But if you're really gonna flip town, might as well help us out while you can. I'll even unvote to prevent any hammers before you've gotten a chance to say your peace.

Unvote

Let's wait to hammer till after we get everyone to post. I personally would like to hear something worthwhile from cruelty (super careful townie or not, his posts are lacking imo). Also would like to hear from D3x and get some opinions from AMG about what's happened since he went V/LA. DDD and Budja thoughts would also be appreciated before the hammer. Let's not get in too much a rush folks. Let's also remember that DeathSauce very well could flip Miller as he says so that is still a Mislynch and since I can't see how scum knew he was a miller, scum were pushing for his lynch long before DS replaced in. I don't see how the day ends with anything but a DS lynch, so no harm in getting the rest of the players to post some comments.

No reason not to go with this. DDD's posts seem like scrambling scum so here's the quickest day I've ever partaken in.

Stop, hammer time!

Vote: DDD

Stop, wagon time!

Vote: Kthxbye

[Fate]

Also note, that those not on the lynch of DDD are my personal first suspects. (Budja, Fate, RedCoyote). Saying this out loud so to speak is prolly gonna land me some heat, but it makes logical sense and I'm wondering why it's not being done. Note this includes someone who currently has a vote on me and even though I feel d3x and Porkens are off base with this fishing thing, they aren't the most suspicious of the 3.

Should probably add this to my pile o' quotes for good measure. Oh Kthx, you silly little panther.

[Fate]

So Almaster is left alive again. Interesting. I think if we use his two innocents, plus whatever claim will help explain the nokill, we might have a better shot lynching today rather than waiting until tomorrow?

@Cruelty, and reasoning for shooting Zang last night as opposed to N1, or N2?

@RC: You reasoning is fine. Then again my vote on Kthx was for a 180 from his D1 to D2 play (first wanting to extend the day, then hammering DDD quickly for what I thought were "townie points"), so I'd more likely buy his change in play.

Now Porkens if being his usual minimalistic self, so not much to say about him. I'm starting to wonder if scum killed Budja to "narrow down" the wagon on Kthx, so they could push a lynch easier. That's what you are doing RC, and it is noted.

And now we wait for AGM.

[Fate]

...or amg isn't a cop

Do you have a basis or reason to suspect this?

Also, I don't think AGM claimed Cop anywhere. Your light RoleFishing has been noted.

Thoughts on d3x? I went back and found this. He wasn't anywhere near the Kthx lynch, but his "rolefishing" comment basically started the whole thing.

Yet he voted Zang instead. A policy lynch on Zang D3? Right after he calls someone out for rolefishing?

D3x/RC seems about right.

I'd also like to point out that scum are more likely to go back and point out "connections" between their dead scumbuddies and town more often than town. (Well, RC caliber town anyway).

I'm disappointed you have nothing for us AGM. Only townies/Miller have died so far, so I think we should be at a point where a massclaim would break it open with all the "info" we supposedly should have.

[Fate]

Fair enough Cruelty.

RC yesterday was slurping my nuts, which gives me a naughty feeling in his direction.

I believe the vig claim until further notice.

You can also blame me for suggesting the Zang murder, if you like.

Vote RC

While I agree RC has been pretty buddy happy, anything that makes you feel strongly enough to lynch him at MyLo?

[Fate]

Oh Simulpost.

Heheheh. R_C as scum, interesting. You went from thinking I always sound townie, to voting me at MyLo based solely on the fact that I was one of two people alive on a town lynch?

If there was scum on the lynch, why would they kill Budja to narrow it down? I see no other reason for a Budja kill, no apparent breadcrumbs, nothing.

Anyway if we're going to lynch today, which I'm leaning more and more toward with RC's recent posts, then a massclaim would be in order.

[Fate]

Still, I think that just means we have an easier decision before us. Fate or Porkens.

Unvote; vote: Fate

I thought the numbers were 50% from your PoV, Red? Doesn't get much better than that even with a no lynch.

Or now do you want to no lynch, kill me/Porkens, and then one of us "must" be scum?

[Fate]

As you're so keen to discuss the wagon, why were you sitting so high on it, Fate? As far as I can tell, you were putting him at L-2 for quickHammering Scum. Did you feel that he was bussing? If so, do you have any solid reasons to believe that? There were legit reasons for him to Hammer, namely the Alm SoftClaim {@RC- p290}.

If I were sure it wasn't MyLo, I'd be Voting:Fate here.

Oh look, my other suspect comes in and suspects me for the same reason as RC, except you didn't make his mistake and throw a vote down.
The last line indicates: well Fate could be town, and thus voting him is risky, but he is very likely scum.

Porkens was on that wagon too, any reason you don't mention him at all?

Anyway, yes I felt Kthx was bussing. I quoted all the posts that made me feel this way, (Kthx going from pro-town extend the day to hammering the scum RB quickly). It just seemed like a way to get the most out of lynching your scumbuddy, you might as well get townpoints. Of course in retrospect I was wrong.

[Fate]

Ok, I think this day has been productive enough.

Vote: No lynch

Massclaim doesn't seem to be in the cards, and I'm not comfortable lynching without the protected townie being "claimed."

Again, RC+D3x with a sidebet on Porkens atm.

[Fate]

Vote: No Lynch

Don't protect me.

Scum won't fall for that trick. Like I said D3, they don't have the balls to shoot you.

Mod Porkens is voting no lynch as well

[Fate]

So uh.... he's going to die because he's a one shot vig with no more shots?

Or because he's likely town with his claim and you think if he doesn't die you can shed suspicion on him tomorrow as a SK?

Correction: When you don't kill him and try to kill the doctor instead you'll try to shed suspicion on him.

See you in the morning RC!

[Fate]

DAMN IT! I thought they would try and hunt for the doctor. They took a huge gamble on Cruelty/AGM (most likely to be protected).

It is mass claim time.

[Fate]

Hello?

[Fate]

Damn it Porkens, you were supposed to draw the NK.

Now I'm really interested in RC and d3x's claim...

[Fate]

You can claim other nights and the actions you did on those nights.

You are a JOAT, right? Not a one-shot cop?

[Fate]

Yes AGM, I do.

I believe that was a serious claim from Porkens. My d3x scum meter just rose.

A claim in the order of:

R_C (he's been posting in other games)
D3x
AGM
Fate

Works for me of course. You all can lynch me if you think my claim isn't good enough to go after everyone else, but I have a strong reason to believe it does.

[Fate]

Ok, D3x IS OBVSCUM because he doesn't know that Town roles have no name. We got lucky that AGM forget that for a second. D3x then tries to coax AGM into voting him.

D3X claim now.

RC can come after you.

Any objections?

I want to know from Porkens if that's an actual Claim because if he's f*ing around and I Vote him, Scum can end this.

Why would you vote him? For his vanilla claim alone?

SCUM TEAM HAS BEEN DISCOVERED.

[Fate]

Yeah, it is a hard sell.

HEY RC, WHAT U CLAIM?

[Fate]

Oh read that wrong, you're saying what IM saying is a hard sell, not your claim.

I'll explain more after RC claims.

RC, buss D3x now he's a lost cause.

[Fate]

I'm waiting for the rest of AGM's actions, remember?

[Fate]

Oh ok. So you explain the nokill on N2 with your Bulletproofness?

BULLSHIT.

I claim Watcher, my PR has no name. I appreciate nice things that capitalism had made possible (paraphrased.)

N1: No one visited Kthxbye
N2:

NO ONE VISITED AGM

N3: STILL

NO ONE VISITED AGM

N4: No one visited Porkens (I thought he was the doctor and scum would stay clear of the two obvious protection targets: Agm and Cruelty, and hunt for the doctor).

Breadcrumbs:
ISO #14:

Then again I don't want to tunnel someone for "playstyle differences." I'll continue to

watch

you today, though.

ISO #29:

Scum probably didn't have the balls to try and kill AGM and fail.

So Almaster is left alive again. Interesting.

Scum won't fall for that trick. Like I said D3, they don't have the balls to shoot you.

Damn it Porkens, you were supposed to draw the NK.

I crumbed heavily, and the purpose of it was to try and the NK myself as the "doctor" so the real doc could MC the innocent person on N2.

Apparently, there is no doc, and N2 is explained by either scum NO KILLING FOR NO REASON, or AGM IS SCUM.

Nice gambit AGM. Bus your own RB with a JOAT claim?

But, I'm not putting a vote down yet. Something doesn't add up. A Roleblocker flip, and I'm the only PR? That's why I really believed AGM until he claimed just now. I thought he was going to claim a protect N2 on someone.

Rest of town: what say you? AGM is definitely scum right? (If I'm town, and vice versa.)

[Fate]

An insane watcher eh?

NICE TRY!

DIE NINJA DIE!

This begs the question of course: why the *** did we have a miller? Red herring?

[Fate]

D3, eh? What was that again?

Oh yeah, the day a TOWNIE SELF-HAMMERED.

Sorry I couldn't predict that my vote would lead to that.

Your day play is non-existant AGM. Our days have been filled with little to no gameplay. D1: Lynch the miller claim.
D2: "Scum scan=death"
D3: "HEY GUYS IMMA SELFHAMMAH CAUSE IM FULL OF MYSELF AND _KNOW_ SCUM IS ON MY WAGON" (thanks for even pointing out your reads at that time Kthx)

Therefore, I don't care about your day play. I care about the fact that you claimed "made myself BP" (never seen a Joat with anything remotely close to that). That is what's off, you didn't "commute" or "hide" that night to explain my no-result on the watch.

You made yourself BP. And there was no death that night. AGM, what else could have happened since scum didn't visit you (per my results)?

[Fate]

So am I scum or is AGM?

Pick a side RC.

[Fate]

I think so (on d3x). That said:

AGM, your claim is fishy as hell. Now it's a BP and you are told if you are shot at?
That's convenient for "self-confirming that scum nokilled"

Also, look at the rest of your abilities:
Commute: "HEY GUYS THIS IS WHY IM ALIVE D6"
Roleblock: "HEY GUYS THERE WAS A NOKILL BECAUSE I BLOCKED 'X person' LETS MISLYNCH HIM"

Since I'm probably dead tonight, here's what I'm going to put out there:

Oh shit I just noticed this:

N3 - Doctor d3x.

What the hell is with this?

Why didn't your roleblock N4?

No. I can't let this go by. If I'm dead tonight I'm not trusting the rest of town to see the terriweirdness in this claim.

The only reason to vote D3x is because of his nameclaim. I'd like to vote the BS ROLEclaim over the nameclaim myself, though I can easily see a D3X+AGM scumteam. Remember when AGM asked if Porkens was serious about his claim? It was because he was scum and had a name. Then he "went back" and "saw he also didn't have a name" Mhmmm)

That said, if someone out there is fakeclaiming townie as doctor they need to COME FORWARD.

If you're a doc, you can come forward safely. I watch you, you protect me, we have a fun scumhunting party?

[Fate]

God damn it to he'll. I wanted to watch RC but I figured AGMscum would kill porkens and try to get RC to vote me... I also thought RCscum would kill porkens because porkens is obvtown with the claims.

Will post again later. Not sold on RC scum

[Fate]

Yes, AGM. I've seen setups with Firefighters and FBI agents that had no arsonists or Serial Killers.

And, this recent development, your "BP vest did not activate" WHAT? So it is a permanent One-Shot BP AND YOU CAN COMMUTE?

I just can't. I just... Your rolepower...

ITS OVER 9000.

God **** damn it I hate myself as this role. I didn't get a single useful investigation all 5 nights, the only thing worthwhile I have is that AGM, the only person who apparently can explain the nokill N2, was NOT TARGETED.

MY WATCHER ROLE IS NOT FOR NOTHING!

Vote: AlmasterGM

RAWR! RED COME IN AND SAY YOUR PIECE.

[Fate]

WAIT WAHT!

[Fate]

Sorry Spyrex, it was between you and Kthx to watch N1

[Fate]

Nokilling N5 wasn't a gambit. If he had killed me agm wouldve kill cleared RC and correctly voted Porkens. Also if I had watched RC the final night to role confirm AGM, RC might have been able to piece it together as it would have had to be porkens from his PoV. All in all, gg scum.

[Fate]

I didn't even see any of the infractions, so it didn't affect the integrity of my play

*shrug*