Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Faraday]

Vote Anon

Legion = scum

[Faraday]

Unvote Vote farside

[Faraday]

v/la for the weekend as it's my birthday.

[Faraday]

Unvote Vote RichardGHP.

What? Why do you want to be lynched? (I've not read the last few pages, so brb, but anyone who's asking to be lynched SHOULD be lynched imo)

[Faraday]

.

Faraday, I miss Daniel

Me too ;_; I hope we see him in the latest season someway.

[Faraday]

EBWOP:

Well part of my "tantrum" is reaction testing, and part of it is a little frustration. C'mon, you really can't empathise with being panicked and frustrated when 1 person votes you three times?

What reactions have you found noteworthy or indicative of alignment?

I mean to me this seems like a bunch a garbage made up after the fact.

Hey what the fuck are you doing'

'lol gambit itroolu'

is what you're doing? Well what use has it been?

[Faraday]

Have anon + doctpotter being posting on the site?

[Faraday]

Hater
I'm going to read that game of richard's now, but is his behaviour pretty much standard as this?

[Faraday]

A more deep reread in iso will give me more light about these three. For now, wagon powers activate:

You need to read people in iso already to have a strong opinion? I thought you just read the thread. Your line up of what richard did, doesn't line up with what he said though.

Hey faraday, who are

your buddies

scum?

Richard, obv. Anon's a posibillity too, first post looks pretty half assed and gives me a bad feeling. Other than that, not sure.


Richard are youy saying you pulled a gambit while being frustrated then? Or what, i'm not sure what you mean. Was your overreaction faked or not?

[Faraday]

If I were a vig, I'd shoot Sando.

I love this game. I'd shoot anon.


Anyway I skimmed over richard's early play in Christmas mafia, and I don't think his play is that similar at all. he gets a few votes early there and reacts ok, there's certainly no self voting, or asking people to lynch him. I find his whole attitude here rather different. CKD you played the game, do you feel his play is similar at all (apart from perhaps being maybe not very good, but that's irrelevant)

[Faraday]

Holy thread explosion batman. Let me read back over and see what I've missed.

[Faraday]

Depending on what Richard does next, bv may be my next suspect. I may have to read up on his meta because his posts are throwing up red flags.

How much do you use meta, Sera? It just seems you could at least take a stance on him before you read his meta, then at least re-evaluate.

I hate the LaLurkers mechanic, how about we let Patrick do his job and prod/replace and we do some proper scumhunting?

If people are going to post in other games they should be kept tabs on, this early in the game it shouldn't be a big deal, but actively avoiding a thread is a scum tell in my (and many others) opinion. I don't like the implication that both can't be achieved or even go hand in hand.

I don't know how many of you are scum or not. All I know is that your crusade is not helping anyone and is getting on my nerves. It's not scum hunting because you have no reason to believe DocPotter is scum. If he doesn't post today, he'll be replaced. Big effing deal. It's the first week of the first Day. By focusing solely on the lurkers, you are acting like them by not participating in the game and giving us little or no read on you. Use your vote to hunt possible suspects and let the mod do his job.

See above imo. if he's got a valid explanation then fine, but don't act like keeping an eye on lurkers is stopping 'proper' scumhunting. That's pretty clearly not true.

Papa Zito is vig

LMAO.

Seriously, what possible benefit is there to announcing it? If he is, then now he's been outed. If he isn't, then odds are he'll be NK'd and we lose a valuable townie.

^^ feels fake. Also discounts papa as scum, can you explain why?

Come on, let's just lynch whoever the fuck ever, I don't care about Day 1.

But day 1 is one of the most fun parts of the game
Who would you prefer to lynch though, surely you've some preference?

Gaaaaaah...I want to vote bv310 reeeeeally bad right now...but Richard still needs pressure...

This is by my count the 3rd time you've mentioned bv. It seems a bit odd you're going to keep on talking about how badly you want to vote him and then not.

Anon's reading fairly ok to me in his responses. I don't think he's fencesitting, he's saying it's a case by case basis and he's trying to work out what's going on. obviously i'd like a stance from him, but I'd prefer he analyse the wagon instead of doing it half assed too, so yeah.

Hmm Bv's response makes sense. SpyreX used it to breadcrumb vig in Tofu mafia (too lazy to get a link).

As I said, earlier I think(?), Richard doesn't look that similar CKD, your points are maybe valid (i'm not sure what to think if he's lying, it seems pretty hard to figure out what he's doing), but I'm content with my vote on him as of now as I feel he deserves some pressure.

[Faraday]

Faraday: please link a game you saw scum using a reaction ploy to make a town look scum on day 1 in the RVS stage.

What? Please quote where I said I'd seen it, thanks. I never said I'd seen it but hey, I don't think it's impossible. I'm saying I don't think Anon is fencesitting, and I thought his responses to the pressure were pretty ok.

Faraday, I wasn't discounting him as scum, I just don't see any scumminess in his posts. It's funny though, that argument of "He didn't say scum, so he must be scum!" is almost never used by pro-town players.

Well if that's the case why isn't your vote on me? 'Almost never' is pretty good for day 1, wouldn't you say. And I disagree, I find when people make sweeping assumptions and almost calling someone as town, without really thinking about it to be scummy.

[Faraday]

v/la for the weekend as i'm heading back to my parents and internet is limited plus i imagine i'll be busy catching up.

[Faraday]

what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

[Faraday]

hey ppl. just posting to say i'm back as my net wasn't stable during the weekend like i expected and i only checked the site occasionally.

[Faraday]

Pom wa slynched in PYP2 b/c of a fake cop claim. I don't think she would have been lynched that day if not. Her questioning of ABR is fine and all but it's been done and idk, I'd have thought she could be pursuing other avenues.

I'm going to go read Opensource mafia, she was scum there and I pegged her so let's see if there's any similarities as that game was quite recent.


Javert's first post was quite impressive and reads good to me. Gonna read boberz's but it's hard to follow and jump around the thread with the numbers the way they are but thanks for replacing.

Why did Faraday put "(and many others)" in #287 feels like he is trying to seem towny?

No idea what this refers to so let me go check and I'll give you an answer.

[Faraday]

I don't understand how you could possibly see that as 'trying to seem towny' when I was talking about mafia theory.

I was pointing out I find lurking scummy (and do many others) so the focus on 'stop da lurkerhunting' wasn't going to work, and was wasting more time than people looking at lurkers.

[Faraday]

Sorry been absent, busy with STUFF.

I'm stilling kinda..waiting from something from richard. I'm his top suspect for no apparent (good) reason.

Espeonage is reading a little differnently than me in his newb game where I picked him out as town despite the fact he was quite scummy. I want to read him in iso.

Blah I should have a more substantial post by the weekend due to it being a long weekend and all that.

[Faraday]

Ugh I'm leaning towards BV being a VI more than scum at the moment. I think Richard's scummier, and more likely to be scum than Bv who (no offense) seems to play like this every game from a couple of his games I've read.

Bv can I have a link to a scum game of yours please?

[Faraday]

sorry guys my laptop's fucking up all day and even posting the end game of my modded game was a pain in the ass.

will try and have content later if possible but it keeps going off while i'm trying to make a post.

[Faraday]

CATCHING UP NOW. Sorry for not posting my laptop's an idiot who kept switching off, but the problem seemed to be the charger so reading everything I've missed.

[Faraday]

oh god this is so frustrating i can barely stay logged on long enough to read a page.

anyway here's what i've gleaned so far

Okay so I still think Richard could be scum, but in the absence of that let's look at other players.

I think prozac's been very reactive. Basically what I mean by that is he's mostly responding to things directly aimed at him, and doing very little else. Almost everything he's said has been sparked by someone else. His first well lots of posts are mostly fluff and mafia theory. There's a lot of words in iso 14 but it's more-so him explaining his playstyle.
Post iso 17 for prozac is similar. Looks impressive at a glance but there's really no meat to it. He then attacks people for going after lurkers; which is all well and good if yhou disagree with it, but surely there are other things you can be doing as well, if not you're as guilty as the lurkers of clogging up the thread. His iso 30 is fairly reasonable. From thne untill now most of his posts have been directly answering points raised against him. Not that he even has that many posts. Now there's nothing wrong with that, obviously but really, where's the scumhunting. He seems busy, but I'm not sure where his suspects lie atm (apart from his vote I guess).
Prozac who's your top 3 for scum at this stage and why? (maybe a sentence to quickly summarise your feelings, plz)

Other things: Amished's case on Seraphim is quite good, and I can buy that. I found seraphime's early game behaviour noteworthy. Essentially his exaggerations reluctance on who to vote, it loooked fake at the time and I think it makes a lot of sense from Seraphim scum POV.

Just to note, continually referring to someone as scum in second-person form ("You are scum, after all", "Alot of scum do this, you especially") is a VERY scum-like actio

n and town don't really do it at all. It's like boberz is so hellbent on a mislynch on me. I know for a fact that I am town, so logically I have slight suspicion of everyone on my wagon - but my boberz suspicion is legitimate and valid.

Do you honestlyu believe this? it's a gem of a post either way. I remember posting something like that, after a hammer as scum before, but it was only b/c it was a multi faction game. Either way I think it's Null. I wanted to read your most recent postssoon too.


Anyway probably town:
Amished
Papa Zito
Farside
Javert
Anon
Boberz (I find his defense of bv to be genuine and i don't see the scum motivation in it, so he's looking quite town)

CKD I'm leaning town on but I wish he'd post more, yeah pot and kettle and I know he's busy but still.

I'm also leaning town on Bv at this moment.

Espeonage has disappeared (flaked?)

Patrick could you prod him if you haven't

Oops never mind he declared V/La in his sig, but idk if that's up yet.

As for Pom, I went and re-read Opensource mafia modded by slysly (coney island) and I think her play there is fairly similar to here. I'd be happy voting her, she hasn't really done any scumhunting at all and I barely remember any stances of note she has. Now of course maybe I've a bad memory but that's not the case

N.b. apologised if the layout's a clusterfuck, i'm copying from notepad.

ABR I'm not sure if this has been asked, but do you generally distain Day 1 in games or is it something new you're trying (the closest we've come to playing is a Mokina haunted mansion game which was fun, but eh, it's not mafia )

I could go for a Pom wagon, I *guess* but I'd at least like to have enough time before deadline to move and shift the wagon depending on claims, etc.

[Faraday]

And the separation begins. I see good cases against espeonage, dybeck, nick and pome. I wouldnt be surprised if most of them are scum. On the other hand, boberz and Seraphim are prob town, so I wont be supporting any of these.

Voting separation is good when we are away from deadline but right now we need to get a consensus besides the richard scummy wagon. Even If Im more sure about Nick being scum, we need to start getting together before its too late.

I agree w/r/t to the voting situation. I don't see the potential of dybeck being lynched - there doesn't appear to be enough support. I haven't noticed a whole lot from Nick, he appears quite newby, but I'll give him a read to see what I think.

I support a Pom or Richard lynch atm. Either of them works well. I can always get on my phone to switch and will be in college thursday so net access won't be a problem w/ vote switching at deadline (library closes @ 10 so it's fine)

EBWOP: okay cool albert.

[Faraday]

Why wouldn't Papa Zito kill anyone? Was he roleblocked? Did anyone suspect he was a vig?

IIRC Bv mentioned it.

I think Faraday is suspicious because of his response to this where he used it as an excuse to set up a potential vig claim later.

FOS Faraday

Lolwut. I'm not sure what you mean here. How could I concievably set up a vig claim? And I was just using what zito did as I too had seen it in another game and thought it was useful.

Also, I think Papa Vito may have been holding onto his shots because of the theme...the Karma element of it. It's really vaguely described and there might be more to his role that suggested that shooting might be a bad thing.

Well there's also the fact limited shot vigs tend to be more careful with their role use too.

Pom is high on my scum list, but I want her to check in first.

Can I ask why?

With this reasoning applied, this is why I am concerned with Porochaz's vote being on RichardGHP for practically all of Day One. And looking back on the vote counts, this reasoning applies almost equally well to Faraday (who actually had a more wagony vote), though I didn't notice that until just now. It feels to me that both of those votes were "ride it out" votes.

Wagony? I was voting him because I believed he was scum and saw no better candidate to change it to, I guess that's wagony, idk.

As for your earlier question, my suspicioun of Richard has considerably lessened as a result of Bv's flip. I think it seems unlikely that both are scum. I'll read back to be more sure, but gut says it's unlikely that it was 2 scum who were run up.

I'm sitting here refusing to feel pressured, even though a third of the players alive are voting for me first thing I see D2. Thanks for trying though.

This is an odd thing to post.

I would love to know how you feel that you are doing anything more than me, Espeonage. Yes, that was a question directed at you. You're jumping on a wagon without much of anything yourself. Ahh, hypocrasy at its best.

So you admit to lurking in plain sight?

Who else do you suspect?

I remember saying stuff about Espeonage yesterday but my head's all over the place atm.

also Patrick possible v/la for the next day or 2, i'm sick and may need doctor or more.

[Faraday]

Is there any harm in having her kept around for a few days/nights?

What if she was to go into strong mode - and we have her hide behind someone. Under the assumption she's not scum the scum can't kill her as her role could be re-directed to one of them. Rit? That's assuming I understand her role correct.

If she's scum she just fakes results for a few days, and we can always lynch her later.

I need to re-read a bit, but is there any obvious flaws in that?

edit before post: Actually any sort of scum roleblocker/director can fuck that up completely, so I'm not so sure.

[Faraday]

Eh, yeah having thought about it there's no way to truely confirm the role I guess. I've seen hider as scum claims a few time, iirc CKD did it in Emerald City

Pom's basically a weak cop in weak mode, and then becomes a regular hider in strong mode.

I dont know if I can swallow the claim, but I know I dont like those (farside faraday) trying to dicate how she uses her role before she uses it. I think she needs to use it how she deems fit. She will have to answer for those decisions.

If we're keeping her around I'd prefer to direct her though. I don't see why we should leave it up to her own judgement. We'll probably never be able to fully trust her anyway, will we, so if we were to keep her around trying to confirm specific people might be more helpful.

[Faraday]

What info do we get if she dies hiding behind someone? We've no idea who she'd have hid behind so we'g get nothing. At least by directing her this becomes possible.

[Faraday]

What info do we get if she dies hiding behind someone? We've no idea who she'd have hid behind so we'g get nothing. At least by directing her this becomes possible.

Faraday: It doesn't work. Scum could just nk her target and Pom will die too. That's why I retracted my suggestion that we direct her.

Let me think on this, I thought for a second this wouldn't be a bad thing. I mean wcs we get rid of scummy pom who we're unsure of anyway and I'd assuming we['d get her to investigate people we feel are likely to be mafia anyway, so we'd be forcing the scum into a sub optimal kill just to knock off 2 people?


Eh I guess scum pr's fuck this up since we don't know what they have though so fair enough.

[Faraday]

This is the scummiest thing I've ever read in my life.

Scum KNOW who's scum and who's not. Just because we think somebody might be scum, doesn't make them less of an asset if they are town.

You're condoning the idea of giving mafia a two-for-one kill, at least one of which is a power role.

Uh not sure how the first paragraph is all that relevant to what I said. And I'm not 'condoning' the idea, I'm saying if the scenario you happened described I'd not be overly upset. As it'd be getting rid of two scummy players, which I don't see as a bad thing.

The fact the mafia will have wasted their kill on someone we may have lynched doesn't upset me, so yeah, I've no idea how you can find that scummy.

I think there are too many massive holes in the plan anyway having thought it through properly.

As for your second part, that i didn't bother quoting re: the set-up. Eh I could see it, altho giving scum a potential double kill would be very strong.

[Faraday]

CKD - the only reason we knew you were fakeclaiming that game was because I was scum and you claimed to hide behind KK - my scumbuddy, and it doesn't appear we've got multiple factions here at least.


Hmm I guess I see your point re: pom going blind if we keep her around though, I think directing her won't work b/c we don't know what can fuck results up. Also CKD i'm not on her wagon, lol so yeah I'm not sure if that was directed at me.

[Faraday]

will get to this tomorrow, another game took most of my attention today and i'm on the forum less at weekends anyway.

[Faraday]

No, never played with a hider before. It's not extremely common, though, I have to say, it is a cool tole. But it confused me at first, which is actually why I originally massed up a bit oof my role while claiming.

what confused you about it?

catching up but this is a very good question I think.

[Faraday]

[

But I'm just thinking about risk versus reward. We've got a real potential tangible reward in keeping Pomtown alive, and nobody's really put a case that there's a real drawback in keeping Pomscum alive for a night - to see if a tracker or cop can confirm her one way or another tonight, and to get some further usable info from her night action tonight - usable info which will be confirmed fact if we decide to lynch her tomorrow.

Is the main problem that there's nobody else screaming scum?

i think rising outing more powerful roles to try and possibly confirm someone's a bad plan. we've no guarantee we even have those roles in the game.

[Faraday]

Basically dybeck has been bothering me for a while I am sure there is a reason so I will look when I get a bit more time.

?

Just for reference, town generally look for scummy things and choose a lynch target based upon those things. Choosing a lynch target and then scrabbling for some sort of justification betrays you as scum.

While true this isn't really related what boberz said, unless you think he's doing that, in which case, I guess waiting for the case would help.

I'm still thinking Pom could be more useful kept around for a little bit.

[Faraday]

I'll catch up here later even if it kills me.

This is my top priority and I've been slacking lately, so apologies.

[Faraday]

Going to start the day where I finished the last.

vote: Faraday

.

Ya it was a pretty bad explanation yesterday too, iirc.

[Faraday]

I don't mind dybeck's explanation, really. It at least lets me know where he's at,.

It's "Karma" mafia, after all - the mod's given it that name for a reason, and if scum are getting extra information based upon town's night actions, we should think about a strategy to counter it.

The one thing that is clear is that they're doing a good job of hitting PRs overnight, and we might want to examine whether this is just luck or whether town PRs are inadvertently helping them out.

I think it's obvious that since PR's have a weak strong mode obviously there's some negative effect. Since town doesn't know what it is, it seems obvious it's doing something to either 1) help scum and 2) hinder town.
The thing is, while trying to work it out is good I don't know where to start.

It was you that suggested scum get powers if town use them? I think it's possible, but the hider being in the set-up makes me feel that's less likely.

[Faraday]

Of the people who actively tried to derail the Pom bandwagon, I think there was at least one scum. Farside is probably town because of Pom, and Porochaz is dead, so there's Nick and CKD left. IGMEOY goes out to both but no FOS.

This is bullshit. Scum would rather blend in then make waves. Or they lurk their ass off.

I think it depends on the game. You'll usually see at least one scum trying to 'make waves' in most games IME.

I'm not sure how Dybeck's discussion will out PR's I guess it's possible in the way people react, but it seems so far that they've more idea how karma works than anyone else. Pom certainly didn't seem to or she's surely have mentioned it.

[Faraday]

Yup. Esp is also scum, Nick is town.

You're wrong on both counts. Even if I were scum, how would that clear Nick?

Vote Espeonage

I'd be so fucking shocked if this post came from ANYONE but scum.

[Faraday]

Ok. This game is boring.

You could always self vote if ya want.

[Faraday]

I think Espeonage is more likely to be scum than Sando at this venture.

If there are people willing to hammer however he should probably claim.

[Faraday]

Oh wow. Can't say I agree with Abr's play, but it worked this time. Unless he's got far bigger balls than I think he's not scum here, not sure why he's getting the votes he is.

Vote Espeonage

thought there was a good chance he was scum yesterday, think the same today.

[Faraday]

fos: dybeck.

[Faraday]

The arguments against ABR seem stupid to me. If he was scum I don't think he'd come out and admit he'd faked his claim. it's obviously going to bring a lot of scrutiny on him.

I'm content with him for the moment, as it's very possible Sando wouldn't have been lynched without his efforts.

So yeah.

Also 'we need to punish him for it', don't be ridiculous. If he was scum I'd agree, also every rule has an exception. Here's one for LAL.

[Faraday]

The arguments against ABR seem stupid to me. If he was scum I don't think he'd come out and admit he'd faked his claim.

How long do you think he'd last giving out fake results? He'd get caught out before the end of the game. This has obviously been pointed out to him by his scummates overnight and he's realised his schoolboy error.

Admitting to lying about his results is his ONLY remaining option.

What? Seriously you think admitting as lying as scum here was the best or easiest option for Albert. I don't buy that at all. It's far easier for him to fake results for a day or 2, maybe even more. Hell he could have easily claimed roleblocked or shit like that either if he really didn't want to give out results.

I really don't see any good reasons for voting him atm.

Ok how is ABR not scum?

He's really not playing like scum.

[Faraday]

wat.

[Faraday]

this has nothing to do with anything current.

this is a meta, but wanted it out there.

I am under the opinion that Papa Zito most likely used his vig kill Night 1. I understand that there was just one kill....so do with it what you will. Probably not important...but maybe it is.

Knowing what this is based on I think it's not an unreasonable conclusion at all. Especially if he felt he was likely to die.

[Faraday]

Hey, Nick, why the sudden 180 on ABR? I totally expected you to be hitting him hard today after the backtrack.

IMO, Espy has a stronger case against her, and no one really wants to vote ABR, for whatever reason.

Um he has a few votes against him does he not? This seems like a cop out if you find him scummy.

forum's being so slow ugh.

[Faraday]

v/la till thursday last 2 exams tomorrow/next day + celebrations

[Faraday]

lol.

sorry guys was busy with exams and only concentrating on my game near deadline.

Anyway gonna catch up and see if there's anything much I missed.

[Faraday]

I don't see Sera as the most likeliest candidate for scum atm.

He's quite vehment and constant with his BV hate once he does jump on. I did think he was playing both sides of the fence with his 'I reaaaaaally wanna vote bv' early on in the game, but I'm not sure that's the type of thing he'd post if he was buddies with Bv, I know it's not something I'd ever do with a scumbuddy, that's for sure, so I think looking back it's more likely he did find them both genuinely scummy as opposed to making sure he could be seen to be suspicious of Bv.

I need to check his interaction with Sando to be sure tho.

I don't remember much about Nick off hand I need to re-read. Amished looks quite townie to me.

Espeonage is still the most likely to be scum.

[Faraday]

Don't forget the potential of Pom possibly dying via hiding with scum under your wcs Amished, I think that rules out 6 scum beyond any doubt (although I'd have thought that anyway, just by general game balance sense)

[Faraday]

These next two quotes are days apart but I find them noteworthy because they both comment on the same window of posts. I'll explain why once you see the quotes.

Amished's case on Seraphim is quite good, and I can buy that. I found seraphime's early game behaviour noteworthy. Essentially his exaggerations reluctance on who to vote, it loooked fake at the time and I think it makes a lot of sense from Seraphim scum POV.

I don't see Sera as the most likeliest candidate for scum atm.

He's quite vehment and constant with his BV hate once he does jump on. I did think he was playing both sides of the fence with his 'I reaaaaaally wanna vote bv' early on in the game, but I'm not sure that's the type of thing he'd post if he was buddies with Bv, I know it's not something I'd ever do with a scumbuddy, that's for sure, so I think looking back it's more likely he did find them both genuinely scummy as opposed to making sure he could be seen to be suspicious of Bv.

I'm not sure what changed here. So I'd like an explanation. A lot of Amished's initial case on me revolves around the same window so I'm not sure what changed between then and now.

I changed my mind, basically. Having gone back and read them I don't think they're more likely to come from Sera scum than town, as I think you as scum would be more careful about being so ...well obvious about your obvious reluctance to the wagon.

I know my activity's been rather meh, but I've posted as much as I could for the most part, I've had exams which have sucked the life out of me.

[Faraday]

Town/Prob town
1) Amished (replacing My Milked Eek)
2) farside22
4) boberz (replacing Snow_Bunny)
15) Javert (replacing Bio Hazard)
18) Faraday
6) Seraphim
20) Albert B. Rampage

Leaning town:
Ojanen
CKD although this is mostly meta based, I feel he's playing differently than I've seen him as scum in the past.

Neutralish:
3) Jahudo

Scummyish
5) dybeck
14) NickF227

Scum:
Espeonage

[Faraday]

Just realised that there is a massive flaw in my logic regarding my reasoning for voting Albert.

What was the flaw that you just realised now, that you'd overlooked before?

[Faraday]

ugh v/la next 2 days. hopefully no more. shit just came up. sorry. :/

[Faraday]

I don't buy Espy's claim at all, mostly because he said it was his role was 'Vanilla Townie', even though earlier in the game by a townie death, it showed the role was named 'Villager' here. =/

Yeah I don't think this is telling. having said that the claim really does nothing for me either. We've already seen Bv claim vanilla as scum, too.

Espy wagon > Sera one.

[Faraday]

Yay!!! I declare Faraday is scum. I give to you exibit A faraday scum
Please count the number of things you see in that game that is in this game as well and you may just switch you vote with me.

unvote:
vote: Faraday

Fos: Bobz, Espy

I assume you've read town games of mine to make sure I don't do similar things in those games? Would you mind at least pointing out the percieved similarities, I'm not going to read my own games to see what you're talking about. Also your meta is pretty damn old, it was my first game on the site. I think my playstyle has changed a lot since then. My wiki has a whole list of scum games that are more recent, so cherrypicking one that probably doesn't reflect my current playstyle is well not something I can defend against.

Reasons for my list coming.

[Faraday]

Yeah I just searched multisearch and one time faraday said v/la he still was posting elsewhere.
I need to search one more thing before I declare faraday scum or town.

Uh it's limited access, not none btw. I'm V/la most weekends and can only post every so often due to unreliable internet.

[Faraday]

faraday:
post 592 I don't see how he reads Bv as a VI and not richard.
God reading Faraday is horrible. He's been saying v/la most of the game or needing to catch up. I seriously want reasons right now on why he thinks the players he has listed are scum.
Worst part Faraday always looks scummy to me except once. I need to look at something that bugs me about him a little bit later.

I read richard as somewhat of a Vi that was likely to be scum. I'd examine the large normal he played where people, CKD, had said he was scummy but I found quite a few differences in his playstyle there and early on in the game.

Anyway, yeah reasons forthcoming.

[Faraday]

Town/Prob town
1) Amished (replacing My Milked Eek)
2) farside22
4) boberz (replacing Snow_Bunny)
15) Javert (replacing Bio Hazard)
18) Faraday
6) Seraphim
20) Albert B. Rampage

Leaning town:
Ojanen
CKD although this is mostly meta based, I feel he's playing differently than I've seen him as scum in the past.

Neutralish:
3) Jahudo

Scummyish
5) dybeck
14) NickF227

Scum:
Espeonage

Most of my scum/netural comes from the fact everyone else looks town. i've found POE to be as good a tool as anything when it comes to finding scum, and used it pretty well ion PYP3 recently after finding my scumhunting in other games wasn't much better than average.

Farside is confirmed town.
Amished is reading very town to me in general. His play seems somewhat similar to a game I played before where he was town to me too, that was mafia in funville I think where he was part of a hydra. I've no real problems with what he's been saying so yeah he's a town read.
Albertt is obv town from pretty much his actions since day 1 and regarding the sando claim.
Don't think Sera would act like he did day 1 with Bv if he was scum in hindsight.
Javert's about as townie as farside as far as I'm concerned. His posts have been really good and I can follow his train of thought pretty much all the time.
boberz is admittedly gut but his defense of Bv didn't feel like scum defending a scumbuddy.

Ojanen's looked good, she's been absent for quite a bit of the game but when she's been posting I've thought it's been good.
CKD seems to be playing to his town meta, having played in a game with him as scum and town a few times I think it's more like his town meta. Some of the stuff he's done reminds me of PYP2 a lot actually.

Jahudo i've no real read on unfortunately. I'll probably read him in ISO again to see.

I find dybeck and Nick significantly less town than the afore mentioned people and espeonage scummier than them.

[Faraday]

Sure i will humor Faraday looking at this game and the other game:
1) voting for poor reasons

My votes in that other game were for poor reasons? Really now? I bet you knew I was scum when examining the reasons for the other game but remembering the game the people I voted for there was legitimately scummy and my reasons were pretty sound. The fact is if they were poor I'd imagine they'd have been called out.

2) blaming net for poor posting/issues ( I haven't seen you as town use this excuse)

I've been scum more often than town but I imagine I have done it. Probably WOT at a guess but I can't be sure.
[/quote]
3) lurking
4) not scum hunting
5) offers nothing of value to the game.
Best of all.
[/quote]
My activity in the recently completed PYP3 should show that this was more of a problem of my play site wide at the time than anything else. I pretty much did all 3 of those there and was deservedly lynched.

If people are going to post in other games they should be kept tabs on, this early in the game it shouldn't be a big deal, but actively avoiding a thread is a scum tell in my (and many others) opinion. I don't like the implication that both can't be achieved or even go hand in hand.

I don't remember the context of this but yeah that's generally true, I've not been actively avoiding this thread though.

[Faraday]

So basically based on town reads you breaking it down to those you have no town read of and put them in the scum category with no case?

Pretty much, yeah. It's something I've seen Elli and DGB use to fairly good success so i'm hopeful it might work for me. I mean even while being lazy in PYP3 I managed to catch some scum so idk

[Faraday]

@Faraday: I note you didn't really come into this thread doing much of anything till I called you on your lurking ways and voting you for your scummy behavoir?

I assume this is a rhetorical question, as I can't see my answer of yes or no being at all sufficent but since ya asked... I was writing flavour for my upcoming large theme game for a while and then logged on to post in my games.

[Faraday]

@boberz: things change. I haven't taking a strong look at Faraday until now; and the way he plays is the scum-style that seems to fly under my radar pretty effectively until I do ISO them.

I don't think I generally play under the radar as either alignment. I mean I know I have done it before but it's certainly not my usual M.o. as scum or town.

[Faraday]

Finally read Espy in iso and all I have to say is useless. This guy has done nothing but follow one bw after another with no actual view of his own in so far as who he believes is scum.
In short there will be a cold day in hell when I unvote this guy.
He's not scum hunting he's scum flying under the radar hoping to go unnoticed.

Farside, what exactly made you change your mind from this? I'm curious because two players I have good town reads have started this wagon up again.

You go from questioning my wagon here, which I didn't get as you were voting me earlier in the page to then going back to voting me a bit later?

What changed your mind, or is it the fact there's a bigger wagon on me now? I mean if it's self preservation I can't really blame you.

[Faraday]

Quick Sera: If you are not scum. Who on your wagon is scum?
Faraday same question.
.

I don't think there has to be scum on my wagon. if there is dybeck is the most likely. He seems to have been content to have voted me for quite a while for reasons I find pretty bad. Seemed like he was content to keep his vote on me whenever but not really push the wagon on me, as far as I know he never even made a case.

[Faraday]

His posts have got a lot shorter since he has been under suspicion, quite what that means I dont know but worth mentioning.

I suppose the simple answer is I dont know what his allignment is.

Hmm well my post lengths tend to vary in games anyway, I think. I know I can go from making a few longer posts to short replies quite quickly, I think people who've played with me a few times could probably back that up.

[Faraday]

Dybeck I'm struggling to understand why you find or found my plan scummy? I mean if you disagreed with it, I guess that's understandable. I thought it was reasonable at the time, and it would have been best if we had been able to utilise or confirm her role in some way, but that ended up not being possible. Why do you think what I proposd is more likely to come from scum?

[Faraday]

But nobody liked the Pom lynch as much as scum did. Don't forget that they KNEW Pom was a pro-town power role. They wanted the lynch more than anyone else.

Also i wasn't really up for lynching her at first, it became clear however that her role couldn't be confirmed or used due to the likelyhood of scum being able to mess up any plans.

[Faraday]

I'm back. This game is very slow now.

This is helpful. Why aren't you dead yet?

[Faraday]

Even after I pointed this out to you, you still wanted to go with the plan. What's the pro-town motivation for this?

Because that's not what the plan came down to and your failure to see that baffles me. It could have resulted in 2 town deaths, but that would have meant a)a controlled scum nightkill on a player who they wouldn't have likely wanted to kill and b)at least a lynch isn't wasted on Pom this way.

[Faraday]

[

That's not the right question. Why would Sera ask the question in the first place?

True, but I don't take the confirming line to be anything significant. I mean unless you think it'd be lacking in the scum PM to me it doesn't really seem any sort of significant point, unless I completely misunderstood at what CKD was getting at.

[Faraday]

I thought CKD was a power role before he claimed vanilla. Now I think he might be scum or SK because he's always asking what people think about him and shit.

I vaguely remember something similar from him in PYP2, actually. I think he was vanilla too there. I probably need to see if he does it as scum, but in the one scum game I played with him it's not something I remember from him.

[Faraday]

Considering they've been the 2 main wagons for the day before mine, I fail to see how I'm 'scenting blood' now. I believe Sera's town and still prefer Espeonage to die. Swinging the wagon his way would be better I think.

[Faraday]

Espeonage > Seraphim > Faraday.

Completely misread the deadline and thought we had more time.

Farside why do you think Espeonage is town again?

[Faraday]

You could always vote Espeonage, who y'know, is scum.

[Faraday]

Vote Espeonage

Can we lynch scum today and not fuck around?

[Faraday]

I did, I think if anything here there's less scumhunting here than there. I mean this game has been longer, and he's been around more so I'd certainly expect more from him. I am admittedly only going off memory of the previous game but despite him being 'scummy' I think he did enough to be able to be read as newb town by me, here I don't get that at all. It's pretty much the opposite.

Yeah, my suspicions are generally based on the things he's said/done 'in the moment' I guess. His just lack of utter desire to do pretty much fucking anything, I mean his day 1 play isn't exactly stellar or anything so it's not like I'm ignoring shining moments of townieness.

Dybeck seems content to pretty much sit with his vote on me every day. I mean if he thinks I'm scum for 3 days straight surely he should be doing more to push the lynch.


As for a quicklynch on Espeonage, it's pretty obvious that won't happen but at the same time I'm not going to wait to vote for him just because he's claimed vanilla. My vote isn't intended to pressure, it's intended to help get him lynched.

[Faraday]

Hi guys. I'm taking my slot back over, I'm not fully caught up, but I see an approaching deadline so let me do my best to get a post up ASAP.

[Faraday]

I think Faraday is the only claimed PR at the moment? Faraday who did you target last night? Also since your back, can you explain why you've targeted each of your previous targets?

I've skimmed up till here. I believe I am yes. Well I don't think anyone but me and CKD has claimed. I know nick claimed miller maybe? But that was it.

I boosted Javert last night. He seems the most town of the remaining players, plus there's always the chance he's a power role I guess.

As for my other boosts, yeah they were generally people I thought were town and possible power roles. I didn't see the point in trying to boost probably vanillas as I couldn't think there'd be anything useful from it. It's been a fucking while though but from memory

Boberz was b/c I didn't think his interaction with the bv wagon was likely to come from a scumbuddy.
N2 I decided to try someone else. Anon eh I think he looked pretty town and again there's always a chance he's a pr.
ABr is self explanatory. I believed his cop claim.
Amished was pretty damn town so I boosted him I guess.

I'll re-read the thread or from when I left anyway properly at a later stage. Gonna not be around much for the weekend either, I think.

[Faraday]

With 6 alive and 2 killing roles out there thoughts on massclaim? It's possible LYLO today if we started with 4 mafia and an SK which seems pretty likely to me. 3 seems underpowered for this many players and consider we've had 2 goon flips too iirc.

[Faraday]

Well this makes it easy -

Vote Jahudo

Not really a lot I can apart from that he's obviously bullshitting. Convenient guilty in possible lylo much.

Since it seems there are 2 scumgroups I think even if I am a lynched Jahudo will probably die tonight at the hands of our SK who'll need a crosskill at this point. Only posibillity is that he's some sort of bulletproof scum or bus driver shenanigans but even that seems unlikely.

[Faraday]

Fuck this I'm obviously going to be lynched.

Well GG I guess scum. I'm a modified Serial Killer.

As well as being able to kill I can also use some abillities instead/in addition to depending on the abillity.

On night 1 I used 'radar'. This let me know the amount of mafia and power roles in the game. There was 3 mafia which with Bv makes 4, so there's 2 left. I was also told there are 6 town power roles in the game. With nick being the only one who hasn't claimed you do the math. Jahudo is unfortunately town and unless Nick's a power role Javert is too.

Night 2 I killed prozac (sorry :/). I thought he was scum due to his early play.
Night 3 I killed richie he wasn't getting lynched anytime soon and I needed obvtown out of the way.
Night 4 I killed Amished. He seemed to be zoning in for the SK so I thought he was either scum or some sort of power role that could find an SK.
Night 5 farside was killed. I'd been leaving her alive to see would anyone get paranoid but obv shanba decided against this.
Night 6 I killed Boberz. Well he was obv town and confirmed by the cop.

So yeah, I've played atrociously, but I find it amusing I'm being lynched on links to scum when I'm not in a scum group. I did think the Bv case day 1 was pretty weak

I've also got a bulletproof vest (limited shot ) but I doubt that accounts for any of the missing kills, I don't think I'm a prime kill target so far.

The Scum is in [ABR/CKD/Nick] not sure which two. I don't suppose you want to leave me alive to kill the other tonight?

Also Shanba's claim was pretty fucking great I thought

can someone at least unvote? A ckd/Nick scumteam can hammer here.

[Faraday]

So you aren't told whether there are mafia power roles? Like they wouldn't be included in the power role total?

In my PM it says I would learn of the power roles in the game, I was told there are 6 town power roles and it didn't mention anything about scum PR's. I asked Patrick but he basically said I got what I was supposed to get.

On night 1 I used 'radar'. This let me know the amount of mafia and power roles in the game.

So you aren't told whether there are mafia power roles? Like they wouldn't be included in the power role total?

Radar seems like an odd power for an SK to have. I'm not sure I could imagine it being helpful. Why did you decide to use it night 1?
[/quote]
It seemed the best night to use it. At least from then on I could know what I was up against in terms of PR's. Plus it's a neat role and I wanted to use it.

I also can't help but notice the radar result is a convenient fact to reveal, because if you are telling the truth then we obviously shouldn't lynch you with 2 mafia and only 3 townies going into night.

Well, yeah. It's convenient,I can't really dispute that but 4 scum seems pretty standard with a SK it's 25% of the game being anti-town.

first of all, Faraday, if I wanted a speedy lynch, you would have been hammered. I didnt hammer because I wanted more information from ABR and javert, and I wasnt 100% on jahudo claim...now I am. And it is obvious that ABR is going to remain useless and I think I got what I needed from javert.

Well obviously that's not true as you realised but:

ok, nevermind, faraday was not at -1, but the reasoning behind the no vote still stands.

This isn't true. Your reasoning stands if you're not scum, of course. But if you are scum it means you're waiting to co-ordinate a hammer/another townie to vote so you can hammer.

Second, we have an SK claim, why are we not lynching him? He has obviously been lying, so that alone is worth today lynch.

Seriously CKD? Are you scum or blind here? If you lynch me and your town you fucking lose. I also lose (I'm not going to pretend to be a do-gooder, I've got selfish benefits in that I need to survive)


SO CKD apart from the fact I lied, what do you think of my claim?

[Faraday]

unvote

btw

[Faraday]

Whatever was in the game during night 1. So there was 3 mafia and 6 power roles night 1.

And well obviously if a mafiate isn't lynched today then you can't win. But if you lynch me you can't win either.

[Faraday]

VOTE NICK

Either him or ABR HAS to be scum since CKD was tracked as not sending the kill in.

I'm pretty sure ABR is town here, but yeah Nick is scum here. CKD may be the partner but Nick IS scum.

[Faraday]

A few questions for everybody, but mainly for CKD, ABR and Javert:

1. Is Faraday an SK? (Strongly Disagree / Disagree / Agree /

Strongly Agree)

2. Is Nick scum? (Strongly Disagree / Disagree /

Agree

/ Strongly Agree)

For moi. Obviously one of ABR/Nick is scum at least and I'd be surprised if it was ABR, but yeah that gets an agree.

[Faraday]

v/la for the weekend (well till Saturday at least)

[Faraday]

Sorry working this weekend it's been hell.

Btw that confirming theory is wrong >_> I had the same thing in my PM and I'm not a 'nilla. I'm pretty sure Jahudo hinted at having it too (earlier) and he's not a vanilla.

[Faraday]

I don't really see this day going anywhere productively.

I think CKD is probably Nick's buddy anyway so fuck it.

Unvote Vote CKD

[Faraday]

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

[Faraday]

Fuck. How tense. I thought I played pretty awful, for most of the game actually.

Bv lynch day 1 had me sort of..idk. He didn't claim a PR and was lynched for being pretty scummy and I was pretty negative about our chances from there.

I think the extra kill was probably needed - town had quite a lot of power - tracker/weak cop/pr or scum cop/double jailkeeper posibillity and papa zito's role would have been useful too.

Javert deserves the scummy for this game, Imma go nominate him now although I'm not really sure what award fits best.

[Faraday]

Also due to the set-up I think the game was always going to be close as it has a kind of course correction mechanic. If the scum are getting lynched, they gain more Karma for the dead buddies which can help but if they're destroying PR's then they get little to no karma.


Any objection to the scum qt being shared Javert/Sando/Bv?

[Faraday]

No objections, although Patrick has already shared the scum QT in his generic role PMs post.

Oops! Well I was tired. Maybe skimming is scummy

GG anyway, nice set-up Patrick. I really enjoyed it.