Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

farside22 (1) -- Snow_Bunny
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- My Milked Eek, dybeck
RichardGHP (7) -- Porochaz, Faraday, Sando, Jahudo, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate
Sando (1) -- Bio Hazard
bv310 (8) -- Papa Zito, Anon, Seraphim, Espeonage, farside22, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (1) -- Ojanen

Not voting: Nobody
20 alive, 11 to lynch.

[Ojanen]

@Ojanen: I may have missed it, but you haven't commented on bv310's play at all. What do you think of it? Do you think the wagon on him is justified?

I do think the wagon is justified.
His contradictory stances on Richard I noted as almost ridiculous varied especially on page 7. The variation was sometimes even within the same post.
I checked his iso in his newbie game - he referenced it as his own play there reminding himself of Richard here. Not sure what to make of that, but it wasn't even close to how much later he admitted having sort of given up there. bv, can you talk through what exactly gave you the impression of the early yourself?
I thought the contradictory stances were extremely blatant (being sometimes within a single post), and therefore was surprised and somewhat suspicious of a group of nodders going "oh yeah, nice catch" but that might just be the replacer effect of a single-sitting readthrough kicking in.

BUT
Esp is scummier to me at the moment.
Basically I have a substantial scumread on Esp and saw him hop on bv likely as a lifesaver from a case where he was talking himself to a knot.

[Anon]

uhhhhh....please explain or prepare to be voted.

I stand by my explanation on my last post.

I understand where your confusion is coming from. If you read my second quote in context, Im repeating what farside says in 261, "pushing for reactions" and explaining her that it wasnt the towntell she was thinking of since I was kinda doing the same thing yet she kept (keeps?) thinking I was scum. I didnt plan to get reactions from her but I guess I pressed a button that made her go rage mode against me.

In regards to gauge your reaction, I sincerely think you are looking too much into it. Im still evaluating what does this mean in terms of alignment and the slight town read I have on you for other reasons. Would you say you have an agressive defined meta as a townie?

[Anon]

I like this new guy Ojanen. Espeonage case is good posting and something I was trying to develop after his vote against me. I didnt get the fuel for it and I think the bv case is a little more interesting, but Im all in for a Espeonage wagon.

I could go for nick as well. I found this when I checked back for answers.

Bv...I'm not sure. I mean, the flip flopping is definitely scummy, but then he only really voted after pressure all around from people thought his noncommitement was scummy and those on the Richard wagon, a little bit.

Richard's last post reeks of desperation and kinda looks like an attempt to look town, but I think his vote for farside after him saying that he thinks a town farside would post like that is a bit weird.

I'll read over the thread again after I finish up this homework I have, but for now:

Unvote: Pomegranate, Vote: RichardGHP

Besides the lurking, this post is full of weak stances, something known as "playing it too careful". Notice the "Im not sure", "a little bit", "reeks", "kinda looks like", "a bit weird". The only strong stance is that flip flopping is definitely scummy, yet he is not sure about the player committing the scumtell.

[Patrick]

Javert replaces Bio Hazard. True story.

[dybeck]

Is anyone else NOT seeing the case on bv310 here? It seems to be built upon fairy dust, sticky tape, and opportunism to me.

[Seraphim]

and because your ABR case is built on so much more, right?

[dybeck]

@seraphim: If that's the best defence that you can muster for the bv wagon, it might be time to start casting the net a little wider, no?

I'm just pointing out that it's a little flimsy to have spiralled to L-3.

[Porochaz]

I think the bv case is understandable. Better than the shitty ABR one at any rate. However the Richard wagon is where its at.

[farside22]

uhhhhh....please explain or prepare to be voted.

I stand by my explanation on my last post.

I understand where your confusion is coming from. If you read my second quote in context, Im repeating what farside says in 261, "pushing for reactions" and explaining her that it wasnt the towntell she was thinking of since I was kinda doing the same thing yet she kept (keeps?) thinking I was scum. I didnt plan to get reactions from her but I guess I pressed a button that made her go rage mode against me.

In regards to gauge your reaction, I sincerely think you are looking too much into it. Im still evaluating what does this mean in terms of alignment and the slight town read I have on you for other reasons. Would you say you have an agressive defined meta as a townie?

Someone's not reading their misrep's here. Or my case I had on them. I wonder what that says about Anon.
So please continue to misrep more. I will be glad to post all your misrep's about my comments tomorrow when I have time.
Also Anon did you ever answer the following?

What's the difference between what CKD did to rich that Papa Zito was doing to me exactly?

Anyways I had some question I asked richard he never responded to.
@Richard please answer the following:

Richard what do you think of Anon's vote and reasoning he put?

Richard what do you think of bv310's action and comments so far?

[dybeck]

I suppose my point is that a lot of fuss is always made of "OMG flipflopping scumtell!!!"... "OMG defensive scumtell!!!"... but what we all know (if we really think about it) is that the scum won't be doing anything controversial at this stage on Day 1.

They'll be sitting on the easy wagons, flying under the radar, and letting town tie itself up - as scum always do.

Having said that, I can't really offer up a better wagon at this stage - so perhaps it's worth seeing where the existing wagons take us.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. Some are lurking, some are posting a lot, but in the end it doesn't make a difference because scum can do either. So I'll just vote for whoever for now.

[Ojanen]

dybeck, what do you think about Esp?

[Porochaz]

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. Some are lurking, some are posting a lot, but in the end it doesn't make a difference because scum can do either. So I'll just vote for whoever for now.

However the way your posting is distracting others from real wagons. Could you kinda, post a little more. Kthanks.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR: why do you think bv is scum? What do you think of him HoSing you? Does it make him more or less likely to be scum in your eyes?

He looks reactive and quick to compromise, I find that scummy. His HoS doesn't really tell me anything either way.

[dybeck]

dybeck, what do you think about Esp?

Much the same as I think about Albert, to be honest. Could just be lazy, but that's an accusation that could probably be leveled at the majority of players here (myself included). A bit of pressure might reveal more.

I certainly like an Espeonage wagon better than the two that are currently being offered.

[Pomegranate]

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. Some are lurking, some are posting a lot, but in the end it doesn't make a difference because scum can do either. So I'll just vote for whoever for now.

Why don't you care? A lot can be gleaned from the goings on of D1, and I don't see why you don't care.

[dybeck]

Actually, now you mention it, I like it marginally more than an ABR wagon.

unvote, vote: Espeonage

[Albert B. Rampage]

Right now I don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. Some are lurking, some are posting a lot, but in the end it doesn't make a difference because scum can do either. So I'll just vote for whoever for now.

Why don't you care? A lot can be gleaned from the goings on of D1, and I don't see why you don't care.

Because I don't have any strong reads on anybody yet.

[Pomegranate]

Do you have any weak reads? What's the best you've got?

[Seraphim]

I think your descriptor of where the scum are fits bv quite well. He hasn't done anything 'controversial'...if you think that is the accusation being leveled at him, then you obviously haven't been reading the game.

I am voting bv310 for being too passive and too agreeable and too willing to take whatever stance is popular. In fact, I'm not sure if he's had one original position all game.

Why are people in this game seemingly obsessed with staying in the RVS, every time we start getting vagueling non-random conversation we apparently need more ant-eaters.

I can think of a few reasons. Namely, scum trying to prolong the random stage so that they can get a handle on who the weak link in town is.

Notice he has no problem with this extended RVS until after Sando starts actively attacking it. His next post, 110, is just blustering something I've never heard of about scum using the RVS to find weak breadcrumbs or PR-tells.

After that, he proceeds to waffle on Richard's alignment, which I've already pointed out and do not feel the need to point out again.

He also attacks Esp for "pointing out" that Papa Zito is vig. It's a joke at worst, WIFOM for the scum at best. So why does he attack it so vigorously? Because he thinks he's taking a pro-town position, "blending in".

He also mentions his 'lurker meta' quite a bit which is odd because, to my knowledge, he has not lurked at all. It seems like an excuse to coast through the game.

bv had also been attacking Richard a lot, a large wagon that has achieved a lot of popularity from the beginning of the game. Easy to jump onto. Easy to get off of if the popularity declines. However, he does not jump onto the wagon until I pressure him to. Sounds like coasting to me.

bv as a player has been too passive and too easy to agree with whatever the popular position is at the time. His play, compared with the other players under suspicion, raises the most red flags for me and obviously for others.

---

So, now, dybeck, why is Esp scum? Is it for reasons Ojanen has pointed out or for other reasons? Why do you like an Esp wagon more than an ABR wagon?

[Jahudo]

I like the focus on Espeonage, mainly for the point that his Anon and MME reads look contradictory. And possibly that he's backing away from his pressure on Anon by saying he wasn't that serious. It looked serious to me.

Espeonage, what do you mean you didn't have a proper case on Anon? Wasn't your reasoning "[Anon's post] is scraping through without content"?

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I don't think ABR looks scummy; just that he doesn't have strong reads and he's being honest by playing open to suspicions of self-preservation and hiding reads. I'd think scum would want to be more discreet if they're using that strategy.

But I do like Anon's post 403 about Nick. Those stances do look weak, but he doesn't say how confident he is in them. So maybe he voted on the large wagon despite having an indecisive read on Richard.

@Nick: If you're keeping your vote on Richard, can you elaborate on the things you mentioned? Why is the vote on farside weird? Was his voting after being under pressure a strong or weak tell for him being town or scum?

------------------------
@Richard, respond to post 326.

[Sando]

Picking up prod, my apologies, much busier than expected weekend, content in a few hours, promise. And yay, Ojanen is here!

[Ojanen]

Happy scumday, kid.

[Papa Zito]

Pom is screaming scum to me from the top of her lungs.

re: bv, he made a rather major scumslip, which is what earned my vote:

Seriously, what possible benefit is there to announcing it? If he is, then now he's been outed. If he isn't, then odds are he'll be NK'd and we lose a valuable townie.

Somehow he knows I'm townie. Perfect Information Syndrome.

@Javert: Welcome, scumlist plz.