Mini 949 - Rainbow Robot Unicorn Attack! - Over

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Animorpherv1

We are not color claiming. I actually dont even think a claim near lynch should include color.

[LlamaFluff]

This game is going to make me need to put my glasses on eventually I think.

[LlamaFluff]

We need to make some ground rules here for what colors people can post in. Ones that are unreadable should be discouraged as they are somewhat detremental. I for one move to have yellow banned

[LlamaFluff]

Personally the orange is killing me more.

But I will stop the yellow if mr.happy orange stops too.

Orange should go too. Good color but not good for reading.

Im sticking to black, its technically all colors so therefore the most tricksy to master.

[LlamaFluff]

If you make me stop posting in Ornage and cyan, I will POST IN WHITE.

If you start posting in white I will be trying to policy lynch

[LlamaFluff]

Note: I'm hyped up on music 2x the speed of normal.

Techno fan as well?

@ani - Current thoughts on color claim?
@VV - Why no comment on the condition claim?
@dram - Would you be ok with an ani lynch?

[LlamaFluff]

L-2 at page 2? Woah. Are we going for a quicklynch record or something? We can afford some discussion.

@ani - Vi is right. What's up with that? Is this part of the usual brand of carelessness you seem to display?

This is not an answer to the question in my last post

[LlamaFluff]

L-2 at page 2? Woah. Are we going for a quicklynch record or something? We can afford some discussion.

@ani - Vi is right. What's up with that? Is this part of the usual brand of carelessness you seem to display?

This is not an answer to the question in my last post

That's because you ninja posted me. Sorry brah.

To answer your question: It really didn't get my attention before Vi pointed it out. Now that he did, there you go.

Thats what Vi thinks, not what you think. What do you think? Is ani scum for it? Is it even a tell?

[LlamaFluff]

You guys know each other far too well. I feel out of place >.>.

Nah, its more that just almost this entire player list has at least a years experience. I havent even played with half of it.

Tony's vote seems out of place. Join date makes me think he's too experienced for OMGUS. Can you clarify please?

Farside's vote could be opportunistic, or could be an aggressive town vote. Gut says opportunistic.

Vi is applying pressure on the tiniest of details. I'm rather uncomfortable with it. But this is my first game with him/her.

Cool. So which one is scum and why then?

unvote
vote ominio

Now that we have your playing history down, how about playing present. Who is scum?

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
FoS ominio

Ive been doing some thinking and we might want to be conservative with our votes given that stuff is showing up in color on the VCs. Given that the whole "alt win condition" thing relates to 3x colors and there are less players/cycles in the game then are going to be necessary to achieve that if its one per... it has to be related to a continual ability (Use X, if A occurs use X again, if B stop) or votes.

Take it easy is my basic point, I think being reckless in anything with a WC that I dont understand how its obtainable is going to be dangerous.

[LlamaFluff]

unsee: Vi

see:Percy

Please be useful, who is scum and why?

[LlamaFluff]

At this point, Vas for using the obvious "I can't respond to this, English isn't my native language' to get away with not answer it. Nothing aginst him because he doens't speak English.

Are you serious about this?

Also, one of dramonic/Elli for wagoning on me and providing little/no reasoning.

First, random wagons are good. Secon which one is more scummy?

[LlamaFluff]

At this point, Vas for using the obvious "I can't respond to this, English isn't my native language' to get away with not answer it. Nothing aginst him because he doens't speak English.

Are you serious about this?

IMO, it seems like a cop out, more on the way he phrased it.

So is that a yes? A no? Beating around the bush?

Also, one of dramonic/Elli for wagoning on me and providing little/no reasoning.

First, random wagons are good. Secon which one is more scummy?

dramonic posted a total of 2 times, and Elli 11, with several fulff posts, so about 8. You expect me to know this?

Yes. I do expect you to be able to distinguish between two players. Which one?

[LlamaFluff]

Stop bolding responses

[LlamaFluff]

At this point, Vas for using the obvious "I can't respond to this, English isn't my native language' to get away with not answer it. Nothing aginst him because he doens't speak English.

Are you serious about this?

IMO, it seems like a cop out, more on the way he phrased it.

So is that a yes? A no? Beating around the bush?

You missed this question ani. Answer it now.

[LlamaFluff]

So then its a null tell?

[LlamaFluff]

I'm a little upset at how what I/we had going earlier seems to have come to a standstill, and if we have to avoid voting due to mod shenanigans there will be

RAGE

.

We dont have to avoid it anymore since colors that dont match alt-WC are showing up. Just got paranoid that voting recklessly was going to play into someones hands

Ive been doing some thinking and we might want to be conservative with our votes given that stuff is showing up in color on the VCs.

The funky win condition specifies 6 colors - what do you think Dramonic's name in dark red means? I can't imagine finding the black pylon-bad guy is that easy, but it seems to imply it's not a color reveal. Though maybe we should play it safe, at least until after the first lynch. The thought of re-reads on a game with no voting makes me cry inside, btw.

Yep that color is making me think its a signification of wagon strength (red most, etc). Also if you have ever seen me go off on someone who doesnt like to vote you would know how counter intuitive that is

Given that the whole "alt win condition" thing relates to 3x colors and there are less players/cycles in the game then are going to be necessary to achieve that if its one per... it has to be related to a continual ability (Use X, if A occurs use X again, if B stop) or votes.

This may be the vicadin speaking, but I have no idea what you just said there. Could you simplify?

Will try...

there needs to be 18 total colors acheived for the WC. There are less then 18 players, days, night actions for a 3 player team, etc. When names started showing up like this, it looked like it might be a way to hit that number.

What difference does that make for my vote on you? I voted you for the wagon.

I'm waiting to see which one I think is scum

more

Why do you need more time for this? Why cant you at least try and draw a conclusion?

Also trying to use any language barrier as a scumtell, even a "very slight one" is not only scummy, but pretty assholeish too.

vote Ani

Now, who is scum. Not who is scum when everyone has posted more, but who is scum now.

[LlamaFluff]

Most likley is dramonic.

see: dramonic

.

Cool.

Why?

[LlamaFluff]

@dram - Would you be ok with an ani lynch?

absolutely.

Policy or on something?

Also ive been doing some thinking, ominio doesnt have the alt-win condition

[LlamaFluff]

I freely confess I don't feel confident with reading aniskywalkerv1 and trust in Ellibereth's judgment there.

I tend to be pretty good at picking the "what the hell?" meta type people out as town. In this game though I am not getting that read off ani right now, so that is just setting off a lot of passive bells in my head. It may also be for the whole language barrier thing too though which I am just floored he is making into any type of a tell.

[LlamaFluff]

Side note but...

1

0

0

K

!

!

Should of been 110k at least but something I was downloading popped up on me during second run



Who knew all I needed to break the 100k mark was some jello shots

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: Why did you think the vote count had a reference to who was what color?

Colors showed up and something that must occur 18 times for a WC to be obtained looked like it could easily be related to votes. Its been proven far more unlikely since then, so ive dropped it.

[LlamaFluff]

@RC - What is wrong with lots of voting? You seem to allude to it somehow being a scumtell. Also you are apparently willing to lynch dram for being willing to lynch ani?

I just realized I've been looking at a picture of lion and thinking in my head that it was a llama this whole time.

It was for almost a year, then it changed. I like this character so dont see it changing in the future. Even the alt I use at times always gets called female... guess I have a feminine posting style or something.

[LlamaFluff]

He jumped on a popular wagon without adding anything to the discussion and then decided that he was perfectly comfortable with lynching Ani.

Are you really saying that because dram was willing to lynch ani on page three, you became willing to lynch dram at the same time.

Why not vote Robocopter?

He doesn't seem to need a wagon to keep talking; dramonic does.

Fair enough, who is a better lynch though?

[LlamaFluff]

All in all, I'm fine with his lynch. To me, this is a semi-policy, semi-scum lynch. Probable scum, also probable liability at LyLo. Although, I'd like to hear a bit from dram, so be keeping my vote here until it's lynching time.

Why are you voting dram over RC who you apparently think is more likely scum?

unvote
vote robocopter

[LlamaFluff]

Also this still hasnt been answered

He jumped on a popular wagon without adding anything to the discussion and then decided that he was perfectly comfortable with lynching Ani.

Are you really saying that because dram was willing to lynch ani on page three, you became willing to lynch dram at the same time.

Ignoring me isnt an option

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: Would I be accurate to say you have been attacking/question more of the lets say less then stellar players in the game?
Is there any reason why?

Probably yes. Its because I have reads that I can articulate on them. I have some gut scummy reads on others, but its hard for me to really explain them at this point, so im sticking to pushing what I can explain, and am working from there.

That said the last post from RC is making me second guess myself quite a bit. Something about it just strikes me as resigned, still working on resigned what though.

[LlamaFluff]

yeah we do not color claim unless it has something to do with what your role/abilities are

[LlamaFluff]

I have some gut scummy reads on others, but its hard for me to really explain them at this point, so im sticking to pushing what I can explain, and am working from there.

Or you could give me some peace of mind and go ahead and lay them out. They can't criticize you worse than they are me right now :roll:

farside is really setting off bells, I think it stems from her intro to the game (and that farside is always scum) but something is just bugging me there.

Also you to a much less extent, although it doesnt really transcend lack of seeing expected town tells.

[LlamaFluff]

I have some gut scummy reads on others, but its hard for me to really explain them at this point, so im sticking to pushing what I can explain, and am working from there.

Or you could give me some peace of mind and go ahead and lay them out. They can't criticize you worse than they are me right now :roll:

Also you to a much less extent, although it doesnt really transcend lack of seeing expected town tells.

What were you expecting? (not a vanity question, honest)

A developed read ten pages into the game from an active person. Not having one is just making me uncomfortable. Just about everyone else I have a read going on.

[LlamaFluff]

farside is really setting off bells, I think it stems from her intro to the game (and that farside is always scum) but something is just bugging me there.

I'm always scum? When was the last game we were in together?

Mafia 86? Im not sure there have been any other games we have played together.

As for my entry it's pretty typical post I have been making lately. Somewhat policy comment and reactionary at the same time. Interesting to see you don't say anything till now. Why did you wait?

Its nothing I can explain well so nothing worth pushing. If it was something I intended to push to a lynch people would know.

[LlamaFluff]

1 game together makes me always scum? That's pretty odd statement coming from you.

Joke on what Fonz always says. I dont use smilies or anything like that so sometimes jokes are hard to convey

seeing you back up when prodded adds points against you in my book

Im pretty sure my "gut slightly scummy but thats it" has held constant. Where am I backing up?

[LlamaFluff]

Ah ok. I consider "I think its from the intro" as "cant explain well". I think explain well constitutes being able to make a case on it, which I cant with what I have.

Its just a gut thing, the kind of read that you have to check with a role or expand off other alignments.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't really see anything particularly damning in farside 250. L-Fluff already cleared up what I was going to say about 251.

So what ARE your reads, anyway?

I have Elli as town, then Mae and VV as lesser town. Have RC as scum with a few gut reads, and a few more modifyable after a flip.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: How do you have a town read on Mae who has said very little?

Just played a game with Mae where she was scum, this feels different.

unvote

for now, need to do thinking about the VT claim.

Also ive never seen dram act this intentionally useless in a game before, he needs to stop that.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: How do you have a town read on Mae who has said very little?

Just played a game with Mae where she was scum, this feels different.

unvote

for now, need to do thinking about the VT claim.

Also ive never seen dram act this intentionally useless in a game before, he needs to stop that.

Wasn't she in some foreign language mode though?
I won't get to the isos i mentioned earlier until tomorrow or so.

Yeah, she was. It also was a kinda broken endgame.

I just am having lots of second guesses after 277. It just hits quite a few of my towntells of a player near lynch

[LlamaFluff]

@robo - What are your views on lynching VT claims?
@farside - Do you think robo is town or just less scum?
@dram - What are your opinions on robo?
@TM - What are your current reads? And what happened to that iso?

Im just about ready to put my vote back down at this point pending a few answers to above questions. This game is proving a hassle to get a good handle on, almost seems all the pairings I see are acting like they dont know that are really scum together.

[LlamaFluff]

You forgot about TM Elli

[LlamaFluff]

Dash: TM

Stupid page 15... we are going to need to pick up the pace or im going to have to hardcore lurk at certain times.

[LlamaFluff]

You guys know we can (and probably should) talk untill scene. Would love to hear a few opinions on TM before then.

[LlamaFluff]

Announcing wearyness of a quick-hammer at L-1 on day 1 is not pro-town. It's trying to look pro-town, which is scummy in itself.

The wagon sure broke down quickly after the VT claim. I think I'll keep seeing robo for now, as I don't have a better vote ATM.
I'll check out seacore later, tho, so far he hasn't really redeemed his predecessor in my eyes.

Stuff like this mostly.

Justifies voting dram for his wanting to hammer robo, who he still wants lynched but is giving himself a way to get off the wagon. All while showing the want for a third wagon on seacore.

Just looks like trying to keep every possible option for a wagon open for himself here.

[LlamaFluff]

Why did it take you this long to mention anything about TM?
Who else are you suspicious of?

I never payed close attention to TM untill after the wagon fell off of RC. At that point I went back and did some reading and he went up my list pretty fast. I take it you disagree with my suspicion?

Apart from that.. RC is town, Eli is town, VV is town. Mae, ani and sea are probably town.

Im thinking a combination of you/EB/Vi for last two. Im also thinking this is a very non-standard setup game.

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff (ever-popular!), are you going to be around to post tonight?

Im going to be around for up to another hour, after that probably not but there is a chance.

Will try to respond to farside in that time

[LlamaFluff]

Im thinking a combination of you/EB/Vi for last two. Im also thinking this is a very non-standard setup game.

And still

no reasoning

found here to his scum reads. Cool story bro.

10 to 1 llama is some anti-town role. This

is all gut

.

heh

Lets try this even though its quite a bit of small/gut tells

One of the biggest things on you is that you are overly into just looking for lurkers. Dram is popular with you, mainly for lurking. Mae again you think is scummy, given that she is lurking. The only real case you have persued is RC, which you dropped due to a sudden VI read, which I dont know where it came from.

The whole thing between EB/Vi is that I actually do not see a game with both of you being the same alignment. There has been quite a bit of conflict between the two that was initiated by the other, not picked up on or mentioned in passing. Given the volitary nature of wagons (like RC rise and fall), I dont see this being done between partners that know it.

Moving on to other reads asked of me...

Dram I just dont see being this anti-town as scum since it almost IS intentional its so bad. Yes I realize its WIFOM, but I do not remember ever seeing him be this useless, and given what im assuming, it makes even less sense then normal for scum to be doing this outside of a gambit.

Going to be heading out very soon now, but I should be able to make one line responses for the next 15 minutes or so.

[LlamaFluff]

Dram I just dont see being this anti-town as scum since it almost IS intentional its so bad. Yes I realize its WIFOM, but I do not remember ever seeing him be this useless, and given what im assuming, it makes even less sense then normal for scum to be doing this outside of a gambit.

So basically, you're affording him the same pass as Robocopter, correct?

No, RC is town because of his VT claim and subsequent actions. Im semi-known for pulling wagons off VT claims when it becomes obvious they are truthful. This is one of those situations.

Dram is prob-town for a completely different reason.

Also you never mentioned anything about your probTown read on Seacore. That's the one I'm most interested in.

I can follow his logic on the push for robo lynch, even though I no longer agree with it. The "Ive never been scum" also kind of makes me believe it, I know that I bring up the "ive been scum once of over 20 games when I joined in queue" thing at times. If this is true for him, it would be fairly easy to meta him.

Its hard to explain this one, but something about his play says town to me, moreso then my other slight town reads.

NOW im probably going to be late, and gone for good tonight

[LlamaFluff]

One of the biggest things on you is that you are overly into just looking for lurkers. Dram is popular with you, mainly for lurking. Mae again you think is scummy, given that she is lurking. The only real case you have persued is RC, which you dropped due to a sudden VI read, which I dont know where it came from.

This sounds familiar about exactly what I said to you.
here

No... thats you saying im going for weak players. Im saying you are going after lurkers over scummy.

[no scene]

:?

I was hoping to get a response from TM before mod came in, or at least some big swings in what people think about him to work with. Tricksy can backfire at times though.

Vote TM

[LlamaFluff]

I don't think there's enough on TM besides his absence.

I'm still pro a Robo lynch, nothing he's done has persuaded me that he's not a newb scum.

I'm very anti a dram lynch, I think he's just unhelpful town

I guess, when it comes down to the deadline, I'll support whatever lynch, at least a dram lynch gets rid of an unhelpful player, but in my opinion, it will be a town flip.

No, No again, Yes and Hell No

We arent going to lynch RC today, once he got ran up he displayed quite a few strong town tells. If you think dram is town, you should never be voting him.

Am I right in saying you are in disagreement with my TM vote? Is he town or neutral?

[LlamaFluff]

Stuff needs to happen now though.... which means

TM, Seacore, Dram and Eli definantly need to move their votes. Those wagons are dead in the water, especially the VV wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

I feel that too many people have just abandoned the Robo wagon, he was guilty enough to get to L-1, he's got only a VT claim, his play since then has not be redeeming.

Yeah that claim was almost for sure true. Thats why we are moving the wagon, I would lynch scum then VT. I know some people in this game have seen me do it before (IIRC ive actually pulled one off TM), the claim, the fact that he tried to push a new case after, and a few other tells just make me realize I was wrong to start and we need a new lynch.

Who is your second suspect? You are pretty clear on town reads, but I have no clue who your second choice is, I know you will comprimise on dram (which you shouldnt be saying) but who is your ideal backup lynch

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote, Vote Badger

Llama, how likely did you think it was for Tony to show before Percy after the FAKEDASH move.

50-50, he seems to post around two times and it was right before one of those windows.

[LlamaFluff]

Why is Robo's VT claim more credible than any other exactly?

Im just going to snip this from a past game

Well my theory on claims is "The closer it is to deadline, the higher the chance that a vanilla town claim is a true claim"

This is true given that
- Town is assured to not hit power
- There is no way a vanilla claim will derail a wagon
- Scum knows a vanilla has a lower chance of saving them so wont claim it
- Town wont fakeclaim
- Vanilla claims get lynched

Now you did not need to claim when you did, a week from deadline we dont need a claim from you when you are at L-3. If you had a PR, then maybe its an acceptable time to claim, however this is already proven false. You had to know that the claim would not save you, so I dont get why you would of outed yourself with a vanilla claim when you did.

I have pulled this same thing off in a few other games as well. This one fits all necessary keys of my theory, coupled with the other tells he showed around the same time, he is town.

Given the odd setup of this game that I have been alluding to, I think this holds doubly true, especially if a few of my setup guesses are correct.

For the change in heart over the ani read. I lost interest in the case, and after dropping the RC wagon went back to see if it was a good spot to pick back up, and realized that there really was nothing there. From a lynch bait spot, im considering lack of any tell to be a slight town tell. He by no means is a player I would like to find myself in lylo with, but im not down for a lynch of him.

[LlamaFluff]

@FluffoftheLlama: Would you like to vote ElectricBadger?

I would much rather lynch TM at this point and want to see if I can gather support for that one first, but I would be ok with that lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

Where did you read dram in that?

My first line was aimed at seacore.

Dram saying "I want to hammer" was a big reasonfor that thought. I guess my original point applies but this time its just about a different person. Also bringing up seacore later.

And why would I need a way off a wagon that everyone basically jumped out of . No, sir, I'm still sticking to robo for the time being. Mostly cause I've seen nothing to convince me he's not still a good lynch.

Well you should have a reason if you are getting off it. I already laid out why im confident that he is town, do you disagree with my reasoning there or do you just think it would never work? Also he really is town, the VT claim, no shameless wagoning, the change in style. All super strong town tells that close to a lynch.

Don't see what you try to accomplish by this weak sauce character assassination attempt, really

Get you lynched mainly. That post of yours gave me no idea about what is going on with you. You criticize the falling apart of the RC wagon, but at the same time allude to moving your vote, to people who were trying to get RC lynched.

I dont understand how you can justify the fact that RC is still scum, but at the same time say sea who was trying to get him lynched after the VT claim is scum unless you for whatever reason think it was hardcore bussing.

[LlamaFluff]

@farside - Your interest in mae has been almost primarily activity concerned

Mae = lurking, not offering anything sadly is normal but I have to think if it's just one game I was in with her or more. (will get back to this tomorrow)

@Llama: How do you have a town read on Mae who has said very little?

Mae hasn't said anything that I find helpful or informative so I have no town or scum read. Your assumption that I find her scum without me saying I find her scum is noted.

Every time you have been bringing her up, you say she is lurking, and you continutally are challenging town reads on her. I find that when people try and push against town reads it normally is due to a scum read.

For the dram thing, you are right. I saw you as one of the bigger voices in the V/LA thing so thought your initial suspicion of his stemmed more from that then what you were voting for. Doesnt change the fact that I dont think dram is a good lynch though.

[LlamaFluff]

First of all you said I called her scummy. Where the quote you show there clearly saying null. I don't see how anyone gets a town read off of someone who voted for omni for weak reason talks about RC and is currently not voting anyone. You stated you saw her in another game (no link to that game) and read her the same there. How so? In what way?

this game had her as scum in it. Most of her early game play reads a whole lot different then this one, as there appears to be more of just about everything. While im not saying she is really helpful here, this doesnt match a very recent scum meta of hers. The only concievable difference is it being duel scum in the other game, where some people do play differently.

I also disagree that the vote you pointed out is weak. I commented on pretty much the exact same thing in an attempt to force him into contributing to the game as opposed to simply speculating.

As far as I see there isn't much scum hunting, posting, participation or anything that others haven't said. There is one game I can think of that I was in a game with Mae and she was scum who made one post and needed to be replaced so my meta on her is shaky to say the least.

Im not saying my meta is rock solid, but this feels really different.

[LlamaFluff]

Secret - After about page 10 I never translated anything said in French or Portugeese

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#2188083
MAE replaced in page 36, no?
Also I would hardly consider that early anymore...

Yeah I went back and translated some of the bigger ones somewhat recently if for nothing else but to see if gut matched up, which it does. In a 100+ page game I considered page 36 early though, especially given that her first few posts there were catchup ones, and that day one was 49 pages.

[LlamaFluff]

Dash: TM

Stupid page 15... we are going to need to pick up the pace or im going to have to hardcore lurk at certain times.

Meh...does this ever actually work? The attempt to get TM to post more was good, at least.

I have seen it work, just doesnt usually.

[LlamaFluff]

I hate lurkers and lynch them as both policy lynches and scum. TM is next, btw, moving up in scumminess with every "I'm still here" post.

Vote him with me then, he has a much better chance of being lynched then ani does.

[LlamaFluff]

2b. Each Day will have two-week Deadlines. The Moderator may extend the Deadline by up to a week at the player's request or to accomodate replacements, providing activity has been good.

@mod

- Request replacement

[LlamaFluff]

@mod

- That should be extension due to replacement, not a replacement for me.

[LlamaFluff]

LLAMA YOU SCARED ME FOR A SECOND.

tricky tricky

[LlamaFluff]

Llama - I don't let people tell me where my vote goes.

Do you honestly think that ani is going to be lynched today?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama - I don't let people tell me where my vote goes.

Do you honestly think that ani is going to be lynched today?

Ani is lurking more then usual. I saw him posting elsewhere and ignoring this game.

Would you vote for ani over EB? Over dram?

[LlamaFluff]

Why is no one commenting on E-Badger vs. Vi?

I'm kind of a big deal. People know me.

Im in the slight EB-scum camp, but im not willing to vote for him outside of a deadline situation due to a few hangups im having.

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}?

I actually would say zero off current reads, and no more then one at the very most. I am completely sold on RC town, and for my own reasons which I will elaborate on later, dram town. Had townish read on mae/hp which still stands, and ani is very slight town.

I would put more on all town than anything else, something like 60-39-1 on none-one-two

Also I just realized we have a twilight that I am thrilled about, since I think there is something that needs to be said during it, but not untill we have reached it

[LlamaFluff]

I declare this:

Ok, I don't think Robo is scum. And I don't understand the case about Badger.

Trying to justify lurking is plain pointless and scummy.

See Vas

The worst vote and reasoning I have seen this game and yes that includes dramo

fos: HP

I have to agree with this a bit. That vote just blows by a whole lot of key points to latch onto one of my town reads for a very weak reason.

@hp - Thoughts on... dram? Vi-EB? TM? farside-me?

[LlamaFluff]

@hp - Thoughts on... dram? Vi-EB? TM? farside-me?

any reasons for the pairings?

Big topics of conversation. He skipped over all of them too much for me.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm always scum? When was the last game we were in together?

I was thinking and remembered two other games we were in together (Nasubi and Insane Asylum) on top of Mafia 86 thats three, and you were scum in all of them. Unrelated but I remembered a few more and I thought it was funny.

[LlamaFluff]

I have too many town reads, unless scum is TM-farside and just them something is wrong, so im going to assume something is wrong. Rereading now

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote
Vote EB

This is a blatant not-RC countervote. There are people I would much rather have lynched, but it is now apparent that its not going to happen.

[LlamaFluff]

[quote="VI see my name being thrown around a lot and exhortations to lynch E-Badger (that I'm not giving) but it's way too many words. Could Mom and Family Pet please offer bullet points?[/quote]

Im assuming this is directed at me? Lions dont make good household pets from what im told, but then again no one else fits this. Meh

I guess that would make this Ryan O'Donohue voice?

A whole lot of my vote is deadline based and is directly protective of one of my strongest town reads in the game. If RC was not going to be lynched if I didnt do something, or if there wasnt deadline soon, I would not be voting EB at this point. What I have on him is much weaker then what I have on someone like TM.

For paralles, I have seen TM play before (family guy large, farside was mod in that one so can attest). TM got ran up D1 for being useless, claimed VT in an amazingly similar position to RC (that being a bit prematurely) and I pulled off the wagon which is why im a bit surprised TM is acting as he is in regards to me defending RC. I did the same thing to him already, that theory I quoted was me in that game defending him.

Now, TM is playing very differently in this game, in that he is lurking heavily, but still had quite a few very clear and concise opinions on the game that were able to be followed. This time he seems to be scattering what he is doing a whole lot more, and I am really tempted to tip my hand a bit here to say why in this particular game its such a heavy tell as opposed to in a different game. Just bear with me for now, but being timid here is a large tell, much more then in any other game. During twilight I will explain it all, since saying it right now will heavily influence how scum will behave, and im not sure for the best or not. Town should know this though eventually.

Anyways, thats still why TM needs to be lynched. Also I realize I have just used a TM case for justification of voting EB. Well they are likely partners, EB has mentioned TM just a few times, one saying it was good of me to fake dash him to get him to post, once asking why he wasnt on a lurker list of Vi, and twice calling him a lurker. TM mentions EB once, saying that he is upset about being called for lurking while busy. Ok fine, I start EB case now... I just would insanely rather have a TM lynch.

~~~~~

-EB seems to take Seacore pushing for a RC claim (at L-2/3) as a scumtell, while Sea has yet to vote RC, and EB is currently a part of the RC wagon.

IMO we're going to have to lynch dram at some point this game. He's either bad town or obvscum. I'd rather do it early, when lynches are kind of a shot in the dark anyways, since he's no loss to town if we miss and we'll hopefully have links to follow later. I hate that meta is an excuse to keep around people that do scummy things and provide no help at all to town, but it was the impression I got after the non-reaction to Dram's posting elsewhere while ignoring this thread (and I'm still pretty sure that SOMEONE here would have noticed a V/LA in his signature if it had been there when we called him on lurking). I'm okay with lynching Dram; with the collapse of the Robo-wagon he's probably the best vote at the moment; but I'm not going to put him at L-1 until we've heard a bit more about the claim/unvoting mess.

This (along with the rest of the post) is actually the first time I really started to read EB as not-town.

There had been a bit of a dram wagon earlier that EB had abandoned due to the wagon "being full of fail" (clarification on what that entails?). RC gets wagoned on up and the claim occurs. EB questions Eli for the abandonment of the claim, gets on Sea for forcing the claim, and completely ignores the rest of the jump off from the claim, even from me who gave quite a few reasons.

He also is big on the V/LA in the sig arguement, which is weak. I never notice it as a player, I miss it half the time when someone posts it in the thread. Even as a mod I will not notice sig announcements untill I go to prod the person. Also the "must eventually lynch" is an arguement I absoutely hate, as there are going (big money) to be roles that are in some way can clear people in this game. I am of the camp that if you can get a anti-town meta player cleared as town, its one of the strongest things for the town. This late into the day is not the time or place to be advocating a policy lynch (or "logic lynch") of a player. Especially one that is highly likely to be town.

[LlamaFluff]

I have nothing against a TonyMontana wagon. The main problem with that wagon is that it doesn't exist.

unvote
Vote TM

The following people all are willing to wagon TM;

Vi, VV

The following person is against a TM wagon:

Sea

Everyone else has NOT COMMENTED ON TM AT ALL

im starting to get very frustrated that no one is even giving a glance at this vote, especially when I even did a fake dash of him. The closest thing to an opinion that drew from anyone is a "oh good he might contribute now".

This has gone on long enough with TM contributing nothing to the game, and everyone else ignoring him. Other lurkers (ani, dram, mae) have all gotten a lot of heat for being like that while TM continually slips under the radar while being by far the scummiest of that group. All of that is indicitive of scum whos partners are just letting them get away with it.

I am far more sure of this then the EB wagon, and it looks like there may be some support out there. TM is slightly connected to quite a few players, is scummy on his own merits, is getting away with lurking, is not playing to his town meta. I have no clue what more I can say except

WE NEED TO MOVE THIS WAGON NOW.

The only way its going to even start moving though is if we can actually get the other people who are vocally suspicious of TM to jump this wagon, which needs to be done ASAP or we are going to endup with a subpar EB lynch isntead of the TM one.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: What is the difference between Ani's lurking and TM's lurking?

TM is scummy in the posts he does make, ani is neutral with a few people I have as town reading him as such.

~~~

Out on a limb here calling TM-farside-[sea/EB] group

[LlamaFluff]

So let me get this right...
Your reasons for wanting to lynch TonyMontana are:
*lurking (and not getting called on it) (fairly true)
*not playing to his Town meta (true IMO)
*

This time he seems to be scattering what he is doing a whole lot more, and I am really tempted to tip my hand a bit here to say why in this particular game its such a heavy tell as opposed to in a different game.

something you're not willing to tell us

Or let me get straight to the point--Why should I believe this isn't a blatant derail (ill-intentioned or otherwise) from a verranice ElectricBadger lynch?

It is a blantant derail attempt. I have the feeling that I comprimised on getting TM go for a secondary pick too early and that I can still drive home the TM wagon if I play my cards right.

Also im still really on edge about telling right now since it may swing something to the TM wagon and possibly detract from the RC wagon. Given how the next few hours go I might.

Also, why is farside scum with E-Badger?

Its farside is scum more with TM then with EB to me. I can see TM-farisde, TM-EB and TM-Sea all being very probable pairings, (in farside, Sea, EB order). If farside is town, I would expect EB scum, but EB works very well as scum with TM too hence what I put up, I guess it should be more of TM-[farside/EB]-Sea, I just like the likelyhood of one of farside/EB slightly more then sea. Even though he fits cleanly the odds of one of the two with TM are very close to 100% in my book

@farside - I responded to that post already in my Iso-52. Also meta on ani would be nice, he is one of the only VI-ish players I cant read. Go read TM in that family guy large you modded and tell me this is also town-TM.

[LlamaFluff]

So, I'd be happy with hp/Tony rope most. Followed by Badger/Seacore/Dram layer.
EARLY BIRTHDAY PRESENT LLAMA.

unvote, Vote: Tony

May be five months early but I will take it.

@Vi, VV - This is now the more popular deadline wagon, lets do it
@RC - If you vote TM for self-preservation I wont hold it against you

[LlamaFluff]

@Vi, VV - This is now the more popular deadline wagon, lets do it

Are we reading the same vote count?

Yeah - it was EB (2) + 1 potential supporter against TM (2) + 2 potential supporters. Now its basically back to same again though.

@hp - anything that could be answered from a non-iso read of me (regarding colors) or not assuming VV is scum?

unvote
vote EB

More likely to get lynched, deadline fast approaching

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: Why give up on TM? I still would have rolled that-a-way.

I dont want to split the non-RC votes at this point. It looks like the TM wagon doesnt have quite the support I first thought, and pushing it right now actually damages the chance of an EB wagon to the extent that RC becomes the most likely to get lynched which is the worst of the top three wagons.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok you know? Im just going to spill since it actually be useful today afterall, it would at least help explain why I want the people who are timid to do anything dead. My role heavily suggests a few things

1) There is at least one member of the scum who do not know who other scum are. I do not know if this is a traitor, or actually more then just that, it could be no scum know eachother. At least one member of the scum is flying blind to their partners though
2) At least one member of the scum is actually searching for other members of the scum team. This is a night ability that is highly likely related to colors as again is suggested by my role, another reason I wanted that shut down early. Scum hooking up due to carelessness early isnt something I wanted. Im not sure if they actually hook up if they find eachother or just are told "yes X is scum", im thinking the latter though
3) A couple other things are suggested, one which I will claim in twilight, and one that I may or may not claim, depending on what whoever is lynched flips PR wise.

This is why im a little more interested in TM today. Since all scum dont know eachother, they may be far more hesitant then normal to actually push cases, scumhunt etc. TM is fitting this bill perfectly to me.

I have a tricky role, im just hoping I finally have come to the right conclusion as to how to play it.

[LlamaFluff]

Actually, what Fluff is saying may explain why I don't see a lot of connections between people and why OMGUS has been the rule of the Day. And now I understand why TM has been his target of choice. There's more to say, but if there's a recruitment mechanism I'm going to stop for Today.

I highly doubt its recruiting. My role specifically suggests that at least one scum member has the ability to search for other scum.

This could explain some players who are eager to lynch RC over others or try and push cases on others and just lynch RC. Maybe it's a scum move.

Yep, its also why I think dram isnt scum since all scum wont know eachother so there is even less reason to be playing suicidal as scum.

[LlamaFluff]

farside is right. RC not hammering is in no way a scum tell, hammering would have been more of a scumtell in this situation. Sea is scrambling to not get EB lynched at this point.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeahh... you arent going to blindly hammer. We have 48 hours to deadline and are at least getting a claim given that there is one highly specific town role that my role suggests existing. I mean specific enough to where I doubt scum can actually fake it.

[LlamaFluff]

You have a rolename?

[LlamaFluff]

hrrmph... im not sure how that works with what town role is suggested to exist in my role. It starts to feel top heavy fast, but its a good looking claim. Given the proveability of this role, I would actually be happy enough with a quick move to a TM wagon, and if no such role (prisim) exists tomorrow return to this.

EB also is bringing up a good point on the confusion aspect. My role itself is very straightforward unlike what EBs is, but at the same time, it has a whole lot of speculation involved in it, and I was pretty busy with mod conversation for the first bit of this game trying to get anything I could of what I really am. More to think about than VT

[LlamaFluff]

I would need to do some heavy thinking before I did that, but im much more likely to now then when I was a couple hours ago. Biggest problem I am having now is that a lot of EBs behavior lines up with that claim.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

I am taking time to consider this and I dont want someone doing something reckless in the meantime.

[LlamaFluff]

vote RC

I feel dirty for doing it though

[LlamaFluff]

Oh wow RC is so town right now its not even funny

unvote
vote ani

lurking now is inexcuseable

I am also willing to go with an TM or ani deadline lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

Final reason to lynch ani - he lurks as scum

open 197 - 19 posts, 6 pages (town)
open 198 - 16 posts, 6 pages (mafia)
SWII - 193 posts, 100 pages (town)
mini 843 - 21 posts, 13 pages (mafia)

all meta-time I have for now, but from what I looked at ani lurks more as scum then as town. Of course he mainly plays open games so thats a bit harder to quantify

[LlamaFluff]

Well that was ridiculous.
When ani flips town can we finally lynch obvscum VV?

Im not for lynching him unless a color cop says we should.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, didn't you have some twilight claim to do?

A lot of it was scum actually needing to search for other scum (just not knowing if it was a traitor or large ammount of blind scum). To finally answer why I know all this stuff though is that im pretty sure im a miller. I was born colorless, and because of that like to trick people into thinking im something im not.

Went back and forth with the mod about a few things and tone changed as soon as I said miller, so I think thats it. Also, im pretty sure the cop thats implied to exist doesnt get town/scum but color/colorless. We can discuss what to do regarding miller claim tomorrow, I didnt want it dominating day one though, and im not confident enough about not getting investigated.

All other abilities I have are going to remain mine alone to know.

[LlamaFluff]

Colour cop?

almost positive im a miller and thats the only way I can get miller out of my role

[LlamaFluff]

Sorry, ignore that, you ninja'd me. I was wondering why you thought there was a cop is specific regards to colour, and you cleared that up.

Robo said during his claim that he wouldn't claim what colours he was. Which was a good move. I also have 'colours'. Are you saying you have no such colours Llama? Or that you have them but that you also have text to say you're colourless?

Text specifically says colorless

[LlamaFluff]

A lot of it was scum actually needing to search for other scum (just not knowing if it was a traitor or large ammount of blind scum).

Interesting. So worth a re-read of the game to find any 'hey Dark pillar, I'm with you' sorts of commentary. Obviously not in so many words.

Or people who were holding back quite a bit, which is why I was on TM so much today. He fit scum who dont know other scum fairly well.

I have no idea what to do with the miller claim, tbh.

Like I said, my role heavily heavily suggests a town color cop (the role I hinted at before you claimed). I just dont want to risk that role targeting me. Im also not just a miller, I have something else working for me.

[LlamaFluff]

Also, am I the only person seeing a connection between these events?
*LlamaFluff says scum are looking for partners
*Scum are probably colorless via flavor
*LlamaFluff claims to have no colors

Belive me I was not too thrilled having a miller role that also had information that needed to be put out there.

Also I'd LOVE a Llama lynch for tomorrow.

Why are you assuming ani is town?

On that note I think the best thing to do at this point is leave the matter aside until Tomorrow.
We can't do anything about it now and speculation would probably be best left for after the mod confirms some things for us.

Given I figured all this would be happening is why I didnt claim as soon as I nailed down what I believed my role to actually be.

[LlamaFluff]

Why are you so insistent that VV is not scum?

After going through and trying to provide examples for this read, im not completely sure. The fact that he seemed to be against the bigger wagons with actual reasoning is a somewhat decent tell, but not one for the strength of read I had. If ani is scum though im pretty sure it makes him town. Likewise ani-town makes hp-scum a good bet.

[LlamaFluff]

[VV]

seemed to be against the bigger wagons with actual reasoning

Yyyyyyyyyou're going to have to explain this one.

Ok so making responses based on what I remembered reading at seven in the morning is apparently a bad idea.

He came in against the EB wagon though when it was starting to pick up speed with a meta read, and I dont think scum would do anything to derail a wagon of EB in the place of VI-town wagon.

Does anyone have stats for farside-meltdown meta? I know ive glanced at a few games where they have occured and wonder if its a tell. The ones ive played with her she has only been scum and never had one of those happen even to the extent that it is here.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: You stated the scum didn't know each other. Is this like where one is a traitor or are they all uncertain? Why did you get info like that?

My roles secondary ability implies that at least one scum doesnt know the others as they have an ability to search for other scum.

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff is Town due to what Socrates said in Twilight. He, too, would have to be pulling a massive game-long gambit to be scum. (Hey L-Fluff, did you breadcrumb your role?)

Not really, I was planning on claiming in twilight from fairly early on so saw no good reason to.

[LlamaFluff]

Wow thats hillarious.

Going to do some reading and see if I cant find anything out, although I definantly am not against the hp wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

Mostly prod avoidance. I got busy unexpectedly this weekend and its going to continue untill tuesday.

Im surprised hp hasnt voted me today actually given what he said yesterday. Seems like he realized it wasnt going to be popular and gave up on it fast. Have zero clue what he is doing right now, even if you can relate this win condition to a past game im not sure what it could mean.

[LlamaFluff]

Can I get a very consice read of hp on sea and sea on hp?

They both seems to be going all over the place on eachother

[LlamaFluff]

How confident is everyone that myself, Vi, EB and RC are town here? Im actually debating a massclaim here, especially as all of the "probably town" seeming people have claimed at least partially.

[LlamaFluff]

On that subject,

There's also an early post in which hp calls out Llama, saying that it is never a good idea to claim colours. The reason was, because town don't have colour as a win condition.
Now, I think I know why Llama thought it might occassionally be okay to claim colour, and I believe his claim for the moment. But I think that hp's comment on the subject tastes of town.

I'm curious as to why LlamaFluff hasn't said anything about this.

Mostly because I never read it. Just popped in with massclaim idea.

Anyways

Its not a good idea to claim colors randomly because someone has a win condition directly related to colors. I did say if your role hinged on your color then its ok to claim colors, my role is due to colors, so I went with the assumption that there may be others that are similar.

hp just made a case that looks like he read me in iso instead of in context. Never spent the time dismanting the case, posting "read again in context" ten times sounds dull.

[LlamaFluff]

I have a question to llama first:

Why were you worried about the vote count showing players what colors they are if you believe the scum to be colorless?

Was mostly a panic of "there are colors, I dont have colors, I dont want to be forced to claim what looks like miller on information". Untill right now I never even considered this.

@Vi - At this point I am waiting for massclaim before I vote since I havent had the time to do an indepth look at the Sea/hp wagons. Off the top of my head, hp is scummier, but I like the sea wagon better based off other reads.

hp just made another out of context case though

[LlamaFluff]

Any order for the massclaim?
Popcorn?

I would say hp first due to him having the most votes and me still being undecided on which of hp/sea is a better vote. I would say EB/Vi make final decision though.

[LlamaFluff]

Vi says no too at this point. L-Fluff is doing a good job of making himself look shady atm

for which I partly blame the avatar

.

I blame inattention on a midterm yesterday and finals starting next week.

Will try to get everything on hp/Sea ironed out sometime tonight

[LlamaFluff]

Just did a bit of iso reading and actually still like the TM/Soc lynch quite a bit, at the same time though I like the hp lynch to a lesser extent. My main confusion now is coming from the Soc-hp-Sea circle, each one is voting one and being vote by the other.

For Soc - I still think that slot is very scummy. Soc hasnt done a whole lot so far, but in contrast to TM, he is making a whole lot more noise. There are quite a few obvious town reads, but the only clear scum read is hp, while sea gets chased all over the place.

Given how Sea has been treating Soc, off early today I would not at all be surprised if they were both scum. Now Sea is out of nowhere voting Soc though for "overuse of AtE", for just about the rest of the game he was convinced he was town. He also seems to be waffling a bit on hp, going from "hp is anti town" to "mae wasnt scummy, hp is null"

More surprising about Sea is that he no longer is pushing the RC case when he was trying to get anything going on him all of yesterday.

hp has just been putting up very very bad cases for his time in the game, or at least ones that are taken entirely out of context. He did that with my journey through early vote counts, and just did it again with the push on dram. He also seems to be very interested in the color win condition, which is kind of scummy on it own.

Im going to shift through notes for a little more, but will go

FoS

Sea

at this point. I just am not quite sure enough to lay that vote down. Also I have finals at the end of next week spilling over to the middle of the following week. I will be very inactive for that time.

[LlamaFluff]

Any flavor behind your claim hp?

[LlamaFluff]

Has anyone actually ever seen a scumbag claim Beloved Princess?

Do mods actually use Beloved Princess?

Im around 40-50 games on all accounts, and personally using one as pre-game flavor death is all I can remember.

hp needs to answer flavor

[LlamaFluff]

@hp - Breadcrumbs?

[LlamaFluff]

Wait. we should leave him alive. If Llama is right and there is a COLOR COP, just investigate him, no?

Yep, that should work pretty well

First glance I like Socrates to VV wagon, but I do see some connections between the two, especially with VV-TM

[LlamaFluff]

VV -> TM/Soc

Still like the dram lynch although him moving votes makes me feel a little bit better about him(moving votes has a slight slight town scent). Very little though. But ani's lurkiness just moved him waay up. I hate lurkers and lynch them as both policy lynches and scum. TM is next, btw, moving up in scumminess with every "I'm still here" post.

TM on his radar but easily removeable

@Vi: Out of all the RC votes, the two most adamant on it is Seacore and TM and to a lesser extent EB but I believe his claim for now. TM I'm willing to let slide, for now. Seacore vote is promising, but I'd rather lynch anilurkerscum than Seacore. Seacorescum would give us plently for an intelligent lynch. Anilurkerscum will not.

Again, TM is a suspect but wont vote him

Major facepalm for my self. I just realized how much I've been ignoring the vote count(due to the unicorny-ness...*snicker* also colors.) and how easy it is to decide my vote with the recent one. Robocopter wagon has most of my scummier reads(Hi dram! Hi TM!) whilst EB wagon has all of my townie reads. Mind numbingly easy, this one.

Continued statement that TM is a suspect despite always finding a reason not to vote him

Still want to hear from ani/ani's replacement so I can finally move on to Tony(who should be really be prodded). Llama's most recent post against Tony is real good though, might move there depending on what happens.

More acceptance of TM lynch, but refuses to vote because ani is lurking

@Llama: Why give up on TM? I still would have rolled that-a-way.

Gets on me for unvoting TM near deadline, again showing his allegance for the wagon that he always finds an excuse to not be on.

Now that its day two... he has gone into "ignore" mode of Soc due to the fact that he is posting

~~~~

There is basically zero name from from TM-Soc of Vas. TM mentions him in RVS, Soc says hes probably town, and apart from that you would never know VV was a part of this game from a TM-Soc iso.

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff: Please cast a vote.

Vote VV

I am really unsure of myself at this point though, lots of doubt going on. I can see the VV-Soc relationship coming from VV as either alignment however.

[LlamaFluff]

I would be happy with a VV, Soc or Sea wagon at this point though. I would expect at least two anti-town roles in [hp/VV/Soc/Sea], three if the alt-win condition is third party

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

I still dont have any confidence and really am not sure enough to want a claim. Just having a whole lot of trouble with this circle of suspicion on the people I think are scum. Need to do some serious analysis but I dont really have the time to due to finals.

I will do what I can, but in the meantime I dont want a lynch when im not ready for one.

[LlamaFluff]

Checking in, admittedly shameless wagon but its in a good spot.

Vote Socrates

[LlamaFluff]

I see misrep.

Ani claimed VT (despite not flipping VT?), ani is mod confirmed town, ani had three colors.

Yeah

[LlamaFluff]

Is anyone reinterested in a massclaim at this point?

Just got done with a final (im scared to get that one back) and have two more on monday followed by a final one tuesday.

i actually do see something in regards to VV possibly slipping now, hp appears to be in the ballpark but cheering for a team not playing today, but we would need a claim of a certain role to make me back it.

I prefer a Socra-TM lynch to seacore one, so will not be moving my vote outside of deadline scenario. Will try and get reasoning up tonight.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: Also how do you see something in regards to the slip being colorless and all?

I think being colorless and working under assumption that mafia are colorless is what is letting me see it. Will elaborate post mass-claim (or post claim I am waiting for).

[LlamaFluff]

Re: farside thing - I dont really think its much of a tell, I could easily see town asking this hoping for scum mistake.

[LlamaFluff]

Re: farside thing - I dont really think its much of a tell, I could easily see town asking this hoping for scum mistake.

A scum mistake from Robocopter?

Yep

[LlamaFluff]

Re: farside thing - I dont really think its much of a tell, I could easily see town asking this hoping for scum mistake.

A scum mistake from Robocopter?

Yep

I almost failed out of middle school three times, but I'm not getting that farside was trying to investigate Robocopter from that question or anything around it. Or am I misreading something?

Just something that scum can answer quickly and completely mess up if they dont check their role, or possibly if they dont have it in their role. I remember doing something similar in that big Death Note game (yes I was third party but was scumhunting) to zwet, asking him if his rolename was something similar but not his true rolename.

Socrates is the lynch here I think still.

[LlamaFluff]

Psst... people should be making thier self-preservation votes now so we can react to them in time (im looking at you VV and Soc).

Farside should hopefully vote Soc soon.

Seriously, lets stop playing the "oh im only going to deadline vote" game and just start doing what he need to be doing.

[LlamaFluff]

Who do you want me to bus, Socrates? :p

I'm not picky. Choose a scumpartner, state your reasoning, and bus away!~

Nah... just bus Socrates, will make it easier for the rest of us.

[LlamaFluff]

Or we can quicklynch Socrates

[LlamaFluff]

Alright, I know what to do.
We got incoming deadline,
So we got to lynch someone or no lynch.
No lynch is just stupid.
So we have to lynch someone.
I think we lynch Seacore.
I want everyone to say who they want dead. No big fancy opinion. Just a name.
Please.

Seacore isnt going to be lynched today. I see you complaining about no lynch, but you arent actively doing anything to stop it. Everyone has laid out their top suspect if you go look at who is voting who. Again, we arent lynching Seacore, vote someone who can possibly be lynched.

You should vote Socrates, who is scum.

[LlamaFluff]

Heres my list so far on who thinks who is scum,
Robocopter: Seacore
Llamafluff: Socrates
I NEED MORE PEOPLE!
I need facts on who thought what. Before a death before a NK before deadline. I need it.

You want who everyone thinks is scum? Here. Here is who everyone thinks is scum

hp [leaves] opens his eyes and sees VasudeVa!
Seacore opens his eyes and sees VasudeVa!
dramonic opens his eyes and sees VasudeVa!

Socrates opens his eyes and sees hp [leaves]!
VasudeVa opens vis eyes and sees hp [leaves]!
ElectricBadger opens his eyes and sees hp [leaves]!

LlamaFluff opens his eyes and sees Socrates!
Ellibereth opens his eyes and sees Socrates!
Vi opens vis eyes and sees Socrates!

farside22 opens her eyes and sees Seacore!
Robocopter87 opens his eyes and sees Seacore!

There we go.

Now vote someone else.

[LlamaFluff]

Robocopter's posts Today scream newbscum (fluffposts like this; rolling with every accusation anyone made but sticking to a Seacore vote; great immediate reaction to the EB heal; parroting previously made points). Maybe we have it wrong?

Im honestly debating that too, which is a secondary reason im coming down hard on the seacore wagon. Just dont want my VT read to actually fail for the first time in what actually might be ever.

Socrates has softclaimed an exotic power role and has made three posts onsite this week, suggesting that he's being flaketastic. Maybe he's not the best lynch, although I like the people on his wagon.

I missed this, but then again my strongest NK aspect as scum is being able to read who will react what way to the lynch the following day. Im absolutely horrible at finding PR tells.

[LlamaFluff]

Socrates has softclaimed an exotic power role and has made three posts onsite this week, suggesting that he's being flaketastic. Maybe he's not the best lynch, although I like the people on his wagon.

I missed this, but then again my strongest NK aspect as scum is being able to read who will react what way to the lynch the following day. Im absolutely horrible at finding PR tells.

You

do

have less awkward ways of saying things, right? <.<

No... not really

Will go back and read some stuff. Tomorrow im going to have zero time to do anything though.

[LlamaFluff]

Post from a break inbetween my psych and dynamics finals.

Will back the VV lynch if it comes down to him or Seacore. Not ready to vote though as I dont think my handle on the game is good enough, you can count this is a pseduo-vote though.

[LlamaFluff]

Anything wrong with what I'm pointing out that is stopping you guys from lynching hp[scum]? The vote stays for now, in case any of you start listening to reason. Although, with the deadline, I'll be here later in case I need to change votes.

(...)

Be back later.

Well, this is about an hour away from the original deadline, and he's not back.

Let's go ahead and do this.

This thread needs more Ellibereth.

*nod*

Vote VV

Claim

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote Seacore

I would say seacore starts since we are probably lynching him either way, but eli second ending with soc sounds good.

[LlamaFluff]

I personally prefer Eli-dram-soc

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote hp

This may be part gut, but given that apparently "robot princelings" are bad, and hp is a "beloved princess".... ehhhhh

Should I be claiming all mechanics of my role right now or do you want me to do that in twilight/tomorrow?

[LlamaFluff]

And you are claiming having blocked Sea right?

unvote

[LlamaFluff]

And you are claiming having blocked Sea right?

unvote

Yes.
Also you are colorless didn't you think there was a color cop. What happened to that theory?

Im as confused as you. One existing is the only real way I can interpret my role though.

vote seacore

[LlamaFluff]

Robot Trickster Unicorn

Im very proud of my ability to trick both good and bad robot unicorns into appearing to be someone that I am not.

Thats where I came up with miller (trick good) and that scum are blind to eachother but can search (trick bad, must trick them into thinking im bad unless they are looking for other bad).

I have no active abilities so whatever my role does is passive, another point to miller.

[LlamaFluff]

L-Fluff, could you tell me "whatever your role does

[that]

is passive"? Without your extensions for a moment.

Nothing. As far as I know I could be VT with no colors. I just dont think thats the case.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

[LlamaFluff]

L-Fluff, could you tell me "whatever your role does

[that]

is passive"? Without your extensions for a moment.

Nothing. As far as I know I could be VT with no colors. I just dont think thats the case.

...
1) "Bad Robot Unicorns"?
2) I'll grant one thing that caught my eye. You mentioned the possibility of a scum searching role during the first Twilight. Then why haven't you mentioned that again since Seacore's claim?
3) I'll also mention what a Miller claim does in this game. Given the Win Condition in the first post, it

guarantees

that you will not get NKd for any reason.

1) Yes. My role specifically mentions Bad Robot Unicorns
2) I have no good answer to this. My first thought was just "town cop".
3) If I thought the mafia win condition was the color gather win condition, I would not have claimed colorless, or likely miller, just heavily crumbed both.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: I don't trust you this game. There was one moment I though maybe you were town but most of the game I have nothing but scum vibes with everything I read from you.

You know I handle non-VT town roles really crappy 99% of the time...

anyways

unvote
Vote ReaperCharlie

[LlamaFluff]

What took you so long?

There was no harm in waiting for a claim, regardless of what it was it could have told us something. I hammered before I was going to dentist and meeting up with friends, didnt know if I was going to get another chance to hammer so I did.

[LlamaFluff]

Well... when you had been at L-1 for almost a day, people were asking you to claim, and your first post was about three hours to deadline... yeah.

[LlamaFluff]

So im a little busy right now.

Looks like all that has happened is that dram is getting lynched and RC is semi-clear.

Not going to vote untill im all caught up though

[LlamaFluff]

Just a question: What do hp[leaves] and dramonic have in common Today? (aside from the "being scum" thing; we get that)

Thier unwillingness to commit to any suspect in fears of clearing someone else?

Vote Dram

[LlamaFluff]

While im not against a dram lynch, would anyone prefer a hp one first? Im slightly more sure of that.

[LlamaFluff]

I think it'll likely be one then the other anyway, regardless of flip.

Yeah I realize that, im just stubborn over inital read of dram. Plus I think hp claim is more thouroughly busted

[LlamaFluff]

Fair enough, vote stays on dram then. The ammount of acceptance I got for the hp lynch and from who creaped me out a bit as well.

[LlamaFluff]

No, Charlie the unicorn is innocent. He's slightly off-white in colour; some would say he is

grey

in colour.

What is

BLACK

doing in your Kingdom? You go closer to investigate, and find a large contraption draining the Colour from the surroundings. It is a bulbous pylon, thrusting out of the tiles in the Dance Floor. Around it, there is no colour - only

BLACK

and

GRAY

.

Easy mode continues.

Just so you know... he is making fun of a meme here.

[LlamaFluff]

Just so you know... he is making fun of a meme here.

So a randomly inserted

witty

comment can't have significance to the game? Weren't you the one who said the scum don't know each other and we should watch for them to communicate?

Yeah... im just kind of all over the place with my play in this game, not really pleased with it. Still not used to the "scum searching for scum" type mindset and am reacting to what looks like negative comments to jokes.

[LlamaFluff]

I need to start paying more attention. I just made a big post explaining why Seacore was scum before I remembered that it was him and not farside that just died.

I have zero clue whats going on at this point, although apparently TM/Soc was a SK, or VV was a SK with an amazing fakeclaim. This flip should help.

[LlamaFluff]

Ohh.... ohhhhh!

Im betting TM was the one that had that wierd win condition. Kind of makes sense for the colorless player to have the "X of each color" collection WC. Probably "collected" the colors of everyone who died.

[LlamaFluff]

I have suspicions about Llama. A colorless townie doesn't make a great deal of sense to me when Seacore was apparently a role-specific cop and I don't feel that his claim has really added up, most glaringly:

My roles secondary ability implies that at least one scum doesnt know the others as they have an ability to search for other scum.

...followed by a later claim of no abilities at all, just colorless/miller.

That was from the "trick good AND bad" part of my role. From what I gathered I had the ability to appear as aligned with scum to any scum who had the ability to search for me.

Also are you saying im aligned with TM or VV?

[LlamaFluff]

Looking back, I'm thinking the 3 vs. 1 vs. 8 setup is more likely. VV's the SK I think. I'm going to start looking for clues in ReaperCharlie's and his predecessor's posts.

See I came up with the exact opposite. We had a cop looking for members of seacores faction, mafia that can endgame more people then normal after achieving color condition seems bastardly, it just makes more sense to me that TM-Soc was the SK and VV is part of mafia faction to me.

[LlamaFluff]

Either way, I was going to revive the first person who even LOOKED sick so as to confirm myself ASAP. Given E-Badger's claim and where VV landed, I'm sure there's something to mention in hindsight about that. I'm still not sure why nobody is considering E-Badger at all given him+VV tbqh, especially now that we know that scum have colors and related abilities.

The only slight problem is what someone pointed out - two kills post TM death. I guess the SK kills could have been delayed or something... I dunno... since if SK needs the color WC it can be achieved by 6 deaths which could occur fast if lucky.

Im just confused about this game at this point and am going to just start working under the assumption of Soc-SK and VV-mafia goon and see what I cant find

[LlamaFluff]

Ani Lynch wagon: Vas, llama, Vi, Robo, Soc, Seacore, farside
Badger L-1 wagon: Vi, farside, llama, Eli, Vas, hp
Robo L-1 wagon: Tony/Soc, Seacore, Badger dram, llama, vi
Robo L-1 wagon: Eli, Badger, Llama, farside, tony, seacore
Ani L-2 wagon: Eli, dram, farside, llama, vi
hp L-1 wagon: Eli, Soc, VV, EB
VV L-1: hp, sea, dram, Vi, llama
sea L-1: farside, RC, EB, VV, llama
Soc Lynch: Eli, Vi, Sea, hp, farside, llama
dram Lynch: Eli, llama, sea, farside, EB, Vi

I have no clue whats going on in this game... I want to say EB is scum, which means scum tried to kill Sea N1... and TM killed EB N1. I just have that hesitation of the whole bastard mod with my role going on. At the same time, after some stuttering, VV went after hp...

Almost want to say Eli-EB... which makes some sense with the above VCs...

[LlamaFluff]

Im just confused about this game at this point and am going to just start working under the assumption of Soc-SK and VV-mafia goon and see what I cant find

You're going to assume the one scenario we can definitely disprove?

I cant believe anything else at this point.

A mafia faction that probably can win with just six players dying, regardless of how many town players are alive. A SK that is not NK immune. A cop that searches for SK and not scum. It all makes no sense to me. Heck maybe SK had a delayed kill. I dont know.

[LlamaFluff]

Please... no way mafia has color win condition. Do you really think that the mod would let a single mafia endgame up to 5 people?

No one really has made a case on me being scum... it seems to mostly hinge on me claiming miller (which if you know my stances on claims makes little sense with me being scum) and meta of not being into the game, which has occured a few times before, and interestingly enough has been the only times ive actually been lynched.

My problem is that all of my reads are completely shot at this point, and my disinterest in this game is actually preventing me from making a large attempt to get back into it.

I think it almost has to be EB-Eli at this point still. Have class in 15 mintues though, so it will have to wait.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote EB

@mod - Vi is also voting EB as of post 1320

Thank you! Fixed! ~Mod.

[LlamaFluff]

@EB: Why Llama over Elli?

1) His role is busted: a colorless miller makes no sense in the face of a role cop, and wouldn't delude town as he claimed.
2) His claim is busted: the implication of primary and secondary abilities doesn't match with a miller with no night action anyways.
3) As a claimed colorless he's the safest lynch, as there's no chance the front page WC will be met before we have a chance to lynch tomorrow.

Damn its getting hard not to pull the self-meta card.

1) As I said, my role says im colorless and will trick good robot unicorns into thinking that im something I am not. That sounds like miller to me.
2) I started with the miller claim and "something else" the something else was what I stated later, the ability to trick bad robot unicorns, which led to the theory they they are searching for eachother, and that I would show up as aligned with them to any targeting me.
3) Cant really argue with me not contributing to a color WC, but im pretty sure that WC is third party. Think of it this way, scum have colors, SK doesnt. Scum lynched D1, scum and town killed N1. Town lynched D2, two town die N2. If it was ideal, third scum endgames four town and the SK. Horribly impossible.

At this point im waiting for someone to come up with a reason to lynch me that isnt having to do with my miller claim.

[LlamaFluff]

Le Fluff du Llama needs moar scumhunting.

Yeah I know, im just starting to get to that point where its more PoE than anything else for me.

RC is town because of everything I said day one and cop result. I think VVs reaction to BP claim makes charlie fairly town. Vi cant be scum without EB scum, and chance of that (Vi scum) is low as is. More or less leaves just two people.

Will spend time this weekend looking at each though and see what one I think is a superior lynch

unvote

[LlamaFluff]

Actually, im starting to lean away from a EB and towards Eli lynch given what im seeing from VV. One of the biggest things was this

Major facepalm for my self. I just realized how much I've been ignoring the vote count(due to the unicorny-ness...*snicker* also colors.) and how easy it is to decide my vote with the recent one. Robocopter wagon has most of my scummier reads(Hi dram! Hi TM!) whilst EB wagon has all of my townie reads. Mind numbingly easy, this one.

Vote: EB

L-2, I believe. Claim tiem now?

While there was momentum in the direction of the EB wagon, it was a tie vote near deadline. For most of the game untill this point EB had been refered to as town by VV. If EB is scum and had the fakeclaim planned pregame, this is an even worse move by VV since its going to lock up two scum preventing them from claiming however they want.

About all now, mayyybe more tonight. More realistically this weekend.

[LlamaFluff]

Also, just because.

Ah! Llama, I think you're a Death Miller.

A Death Miller, a Beloved Princess, and more than two scum in the same Mini game?

Im actually wondering if this game ends with a lynch of Eli. A 9-2-1 game with me having a millerish role, scum having a "confirmed town" fakeclaim, and a BP might actually be balanced.

Im not going to vote quite yet, but im starting to think that Eli is the lynch. The way VV has acted rules out EB and Charlie as scum fairly extensively for me. Only thing im having a problem with is the second kill, although delayed poisioner from SK is the only thing that makes sense.

[LlamaFluff]

Only thing im having a problem with is the second kill, although delayed poisioner from SK is the only thing that makes sense.

Not really. If RC and VV were on the same team, and if there is a yet-unknown SK, then we have a maximum of two kills blocked N1, two kills N2, and then after both RC and VV were killed, just one kill N3 - consistent with an SK.

Under this hypothesis, the Cop result on Robocopter is useless. It also means farside isn't the SK but that should already be obvious. It also means that we can't clear E-Badger and hp[charlie] by association, which brings us back to the question of who's playing most like an SK (answer is currently Ellibereth).

Yeah I can see your point on the shared alignment thing, although I actually consider that almost worst type of bastard modding out there, and 100% refuse to play in a setup of a mod that does that. It does still rule out EB-SK though (and I highly doubt you-SK).

EB has gone from scum to almost guarenteed town to me, which makes Vi basically guarenteed town, which makes me happy with the Eli lynch, and from there I can reevaluate as needed, although I would be surprised if the game is still going after that.

Vote Eli

[LlamaFluff]

I checked with the mod and I am NOT a death miller, just to make that known to eliminate any of those thoughts.

[LlamaFluff]

Vi

IS

solid Town right? He did use his ability in front of everyone.

Ultra neglegable chances. Vi would need to be scum with VV and a few other things.

[LlamaFluff]

crap crap crap crap

I thought this was a 2-2-8 game with EB-TM and VV-Eli pairings, and getting Eli lynched first would confirm Vi as town and seriously lower the chances of my getting lynched so it would be an easier win.

Im glad I called all the information I picked out of my role right at least. Also that my read on RC-town was dead on. Upset I went against my initial strong dram-town read, every time ive done that its got town lynched.

I DO think scum was overpowered in the sense that a goon could suicide to win themselves the game.

[LlamaFluff]

Thinking more, this is exactly what I ment when I said scum win condition is broken if its the color one. One scum endgamed three players, after killing a player that made it F4 with a double day.

That is my biggest complaint about the game, I think scum wincondition was easier then that of a normal game (note im not taking anything away from scum, they played a good game). I do think though, especially when you see plenty of 9:3 games with a traitor, that this wincondition favored scum. Especially with potential for two kills a night (technically meaning scum could win D3 with the two goons being dead)

[LlamaFluff]

Oh well I still thought Llama played terrible as town this game. :P

I feel day one was good, especially my ability to actually make correct guesses about almost my entire role, but after day one yeah, this was one of my worst town games.

[LlamaFluff]

*Reads Trickster PM*

.........I don't get how he got that much info from that PM.

Born without Colour, you have long revelled in the ability to trick others (both good Robot Unicorns and bad Robot Unicorns!) into thinking someone you're not.

Wasnt a huge stretch, "someone youre not" implies false results from a passive action, which is where miller came from. "bad robot unicorns" ment that somehow my role effected some result from mafia. The only most likely 'negative result' I could give scum I had as appearing scum to them as well. That would only be necessary if scum were searching for eachother, which is where that came from.

I just decided to claim miller then reveal not all scum knowing each other at the end of D1 instead of hoping to give them a false result. I figured chances of me damaging town from being investigated or not knowing the scum interaction.

Despite all outward appearances, im not a complete idiot.