Mini 949 - Rainbow Robot Unicorn Attack! - Over

[ElectricBadger]

How is he trying to blend in? He hasn't posted yet!

Also, anyone have any idea what's up with the dolphins in the game? I tried to stab them but...it hasn't ended well.

Also also, probably the worst way to start a game but I have surgery tomorrow - no big thing, but my ability to access Mafia over the weekend may be limited by chemically induced euphoria. Don't want to lurk, but I really know what to expect. I'll do my best to keep you informed what to expect by tomorrow night, though.

[ElectricBadger]

Vi's avatar is multi-coloured. Also, posting in orange on purpose. namly dramonic.

Yeah, wait til you see Robo's.

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[ElectricBadger]

We need to make some ground rules here for what colors people can post in. Ones that are unreadable should be discouraged as they are somewhat detremental. I for one move to have yellow banned

Yes! Seconded!

[ElectricBadger]

This seems very early push someone to L-2. Dramonic's leaping mindlessly on the wagon is really dicey, particularly as it looks to be trying to policy lynch for the color thing without any reference to Vi's comment (though he obviously read it as he knew the vote count).

[ElectricBadger]

Back from surgery. Vicadin ftw. It's knocking me out, so I'm either in pain or asleep for now...don't wanna sleep all day, but probably won't be monitoring things so much.

What aren't you voting for any of the 3 mentioned peoples?

Because I want to see more from dramonic

before I kae a conclusion.

Uh...you're suspicious of Dramonic for not posting, but you're not going to vote for him until he posts? That's like...reverse pressure...and the vote v. Percy just makes it pointlesser (which is now a word).

Elli, in your first post on Vas you agreed with him but voted him? Why? ...that whole wagon seems weird. Like half the people suspect Vas because his first post didn't assume Ani's comment was a null tell, and the other half because it did.

Ive been doing some thinking and we might want to be conservative with our votes given that stuff is showing up in color on the VCs.

The funky win condition specifies 6 colors - what do you think Dramonic's name in dark red means? I can't imagine finding the black pylon-bad guy is that easy, but it seems to imply it's not a color reveal. Though maybe we should play it safe, at least until after the first lynch. The thought of re-reads on a game with no voting makes me cry inside, btw.

Given that the whole "alt win condition" thing relates to 3x colors and there are less players/cycles in the game then are going to be necessary to achieve that if its one per... it has to be related to a continual ability (Use X, if A occurs use X again, if B stop) or votes.

This may be the vicadin speaking, but I have no idea what you just said there. Could you simplify?

Robo has been posting a lot elsewhere while ignoring this thread.

Mod, can you ensure he knows the game has started?

[ElectricBadger]

The owl is lurking in the background. I know he's be on site.

The owl? Can you link where he's been posting elsewhere?

Vote enough?

Huh?

[ElectricBadger]

Badger, Owl has soared and hooted as he Modded in New York.
Also, ani=town.

Dram and robo are both good people to run up. I don't really care which atm.

Ah, owl=dramonic's avatar. Moments of clarity through the drug induced haze ftw.

And intentionally lurking after pushing a quick lynch makes my scum sense tingle:

Dash!

Vote: Dramonic

[ElectricBadger]

How is he trying to blend in? He hasn't posted yet!

Vi's avatar is multi-coloured. Also, posting in orange on purpose. namly dramonic.

Ani, I missed this in my first read through..."namely dramonic" - why is that tacked on?

People I disagree with Vi about: Llama. I'm not feeling town there in his post.

Could you be more specific? Is there something actually suspicious?

Vas, you don't have to reply immediately to everything. You can sit back and take as long as you want...
I'm also assuming the "null-tell" opinion on Ani is the correct one, right?

Why advise a player you're pressuring and have a vote on to take their time replying, or suggest answers to questions? Looks like a distancing vote and coaching.

Also, you said this:

I don't think scum would openly ask if anyone else had their win condition

And I believe that is the basis for your very town read on Ani:

Also, ani=town.

But it contradicts with your later statement:

For the record I thought/think the tricolor WC is for some

independent person

.

So why is Ani town? It actually seems very logical for scum to try to feel out ideas if the WC is an SK/3rd party, and especially to get them to claim if they're somehow pro-town. And if you always assumed the WC was an independent, why did you use it to give Ani a read in the first place?

I can agree that omino doesn't have the alt-win condition, as omino doesn't seem to act like I think the player with the alt-win con would do.

How exactly would such a player act? Without any idea of how the points of color are acquired I'm really curious how you'd assume any actions.

Answers in red.

Gah...please just separate out your answers, not insert them into quotes...especially when you're inserting other quotes and such in there as well.

With that being said I think you see why I said "vote enough". I think it was called for and legit in all ways.

That was...quite the weird reaction. So yeah, Elli's voted alot - does that have some meaning for you, beyond there being lots of votes? From your first post you've been quick to cite facts but given almost zero analysis of the game, which makes votes against you understandable at the least.

Why do you think the 3 of all colors thing is the scum WC?

It's a matter of math.

I also believe there are three scum.

Explain?

Lots of lurking for a game that's barely started: need more commentary out of dramonic, omnino, and Tony (and Maem, but she's V/LA so forgiven for now....)

[ElectricBadger]

Explain?

No?

I am not going to into specifics and explain it yet though.

Super Sekret Skwerrel retreats to Sekret Hideout to plan next move.

Why not vote Robocopter?

He doesn't seem to need a wagon to keep talking; dramonic does.

[ElectricBadger]

That actually doesn't explain anything at all.

[ElectricBadger]

Fair enough, who is a better lynch though?

Iso of Robo 'cause it's hard to answer without one and I may as well post my reads:

-claims he forgot game (null tell, probably - scum that wants to lurk is more likely to post once or twice and then fade out, like dramonic or Tony, than to just ignore the thread); but rejoins with no commentary of the first 4 pages except the easiest opportunistic vote.
-odd comment on Elli's voting - he admits there's no indication of scum in it, so no reason to say it except to sow general doubt/feel out a potential case; more telling is the bizarre over reaction when questioned about it, which I think is a solid tell.
-defends v. Vi with sarcasm/defensiveness, again not what I'd expect from a townie who wants to get more votes on scum, admits to lack of content but cites again forgetting about the thread (which has nothing to do with it now that he's back and active - amount of effort involved in totalling everyone's votes could have been spent finding something he doesn't dismiss as a non-tell)

Basically he's pushing at players who could have semi-decent cases made against them, but he's not pushing any of that; just spam and over reaction when challenged. Reads as solid scum, I'm just not sure if he's nervous about pushing false cases or is intentionally holding back while bussing scumbuddies.

I also just noticed how absolutely full of fail my current wagon is, so

unvote dramonic

,

vote Robocopter

.

Time for

Mod: Please prod Dramonic

anyways.

[ElectricBadger]

Did you have it in your sig the whole time, dram?

And for the future, I suggest you post stuff like that in thread; I for one ignore signatures 90% of the time.

[ElectricBadger]

I'm going to say one thing in regards to the vote colours:

It's not who's being voted, more likley who's voting, or notihing at all.

I disagree with the above, but does announcing something like this help town in any way?

[ElectricBadger]

E-Badger, has it occurred to you that Townies could have information that scum don't? and what that implies about your constant fishing about for what people are trying to hide?~

I assume this is in reference to my comment:

I'm going to say one thing in regards to the vote colours:

It's not who's being voted, more likley who's voting, or notihing at all.

I disagree with the above, but does announcing something like this help town in any way?

I guess I can sorta kinda see where you'd get fishing out of that. I certainly wouldn't have posted it if I thought Ani were in any way accurate about his interpretation. However, it was intended to sound like "STFU about colors and why would town ever go there to begin with?" Ironically it's Ani that keeps standing out to me as fishing for info.

I don't get this "Robocop already has enough pressure" rhetoric. It's not like his posting has improved or anything. And in blatant contradiction to that statement, I'm not above derailing the wagon for a while.

I don't quite follow you here. You indicate Robo's posting sounds bad and hasn't done anything to convince us he's town, but you're dropping your pressure and want to derail the wagon on him? Why?

You don't mention any reason not to suspect Robo; I've posted the reasons that I do. Do you disagree with any of them? Or see some indication that Robo is town? That would go a lot further towards removing my vote than decrying it just for being "popular opinion".

His most recent post gives some good insights to robocop. I just need to reread again.

*Curious*

For those counting games: Modding 2, mini's 3, open 2, large games 4.
That's were I'm at.

You are clearly insane. I'm modding 2, playing 2, and don't feel like I have any time left!

[ElectricBadger]

There's definitely a difference between "I don't think so" and "What makes you think that?" in the fishing department.

...and between "WTF did you post that" - just disagreeing doesn't really help scum hunt.

1) I'm dropping my pressure to see if any of the other lusers who are saying "oh he has enough pressure" are going to step up.
2) There are no good reasons not to suspect Robocopter except that I dislike the timing of your vote and L-Fluff's vote (whose vote was the one I called out as following public opinion).

Fair enough on both counts. I'd tack Vas' not-quite-switching-wagons on to that last as well, btw.

Plus you've bothered me for a while.

Very well then.

Dislike Mae's almost singular obsession with omni.

I'm not obsessed - I just want him to post. Is that a bad thing?

[Incoming obvbandwagon] when there's no one in the slot to post? Hyup. Reads more like avoidance.

[ElectricBadger]

*le sigh* Is there an unwritten rule in Mafia that is: "When a spot gets replaced, unvote immediately"? I mean, I wanted the predcessor to post, he got replaced, I want the replacement to post until I unvote.

I wasn't really bothered that you didn't immediately unvote; I usually take a bit of time before moving mine around. It was that you followed up with the notion that the best place for your vote was an empty slot, and that you'd leave it there until it was filled - fortunately that happened quickly, but it could have taken the rest of the day.

Back. Still stand behind dramonic.

Fair enough, but what's your opinion of Robo and the cases against him?

The longer this drags on, the more I expect Robocop to flip VI-Town. I would expect n00bscum to not look so... pathetic.
That dramonic wagon still looks great though.

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

But let's actually talk about things that matter. I contend that Robocop is going to flip Town. Your thoughts?

I think it's strange that you've completely reversed your opinion to a town read based only on the fact that he's "pathetic" and isn't doing anything.

farside is totally coasting on this lynch. She said something to me (she didn't

ask

, she made a statement) and it doesn't seem like what she's saying recently is actually intended to gain information or help us along overmuch.

An ISO shows that she's questioned pretty much everyone, much of it with original material, read other games for meta, gone back to re-read this game, given reasons for each of her votes, hasn't ignored questions and is par with the most prolific posters here. I read her as town, and definitely don't see

coasting

.

How is Robo not coasting in comparison to farside?

[ElectricBadger]

Okay, that got really weird really fast. Been pondering it for the last day and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

Stuff that I would like to hear more about, though:

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

Forget the page and date.
We found a someone or two who's acting legitimately scummy. He's not posting except to look pathetic on occasion. People are actively saying they don't want to lynch him (that is, they don't want to pressure him). Therefore the game ground to a halt in that regard.

This is more ranting than anything.

I get this - even mostly agree with it - but it doesn't mesh with your vote. Pressure was on Dram, your vote was on Robo; pressure switched to Robo and you jumped off him to create a rival bandwagon; nearing a lynch on Robo and you continued to avoid the wagon. If the game is dragging on because people won't lynch obvscum, how have you been trying to push things towards a lynch?

*I think its because I have absolutely no idea where to start. In the beginning of the thread I felt really lost because it was hard to understand what I should be doing.

I understood my position [in another game] and what I was supposed to do. This is a little more difficult.

I'm confused by this in the wake of your vanilla claim. Why wouldn't you know what you're supposed to be doing?

I see pages. I only skimmed.
...
On Robo...his last few posts feel honest and my gut leans VI town now. But some other part of me keeps repeating he's obvscum. Yes I know I'm being indecisive as hell, I'll scan his iso later. I trust my gut for now.
...

Unvote, Vote Mae

for now. Don't remember what she did except for the omnisession.

Elli, did you realize you were switching your vote off a claimed VT at L-1?

Seacore - why did you push so hard for a claim? Were you expecting to see something?

And my scum-read gets replaced by someone that I have a gut-town-read on! Nice.

Unsee.

Good to know.

I don't get this. Who are you talking about - Seacore? What's good to know?

Things like that just don't fit. I'm starting to think dramo/EB connection.

Not really much I can say about this except No. I'll at least post my take on him:

IMO we're going to have to lynch dram at some point this game. He's either bad town or obvscum. I'd rather do it early, when lynches are kind of a shot in the dark anyways, since he's no loss to town if we miss and we'll hopefully have links to follow later. I hate that meta is an excuse to keep around people that do scummy things and provide no help at all to town, but it was the impression I got after the non-reaction to Dram's posting elsewhere while ignoring this thread (and I'm still pretty sure that SOMEONE here would have noticed a V/LA in his signature if it had been there when we called him on lurking). I'm okay with lynching Dram; with the collapse of the Robo-wagon he's probably the best vote at the moment; but I'm not going to put him at L-1 until we've heard a bit more about the claim/unvoting mess.

[ElectricBadger]

EB and Elli have both gone back on their position after seeing the VLA sig.
Meanwhile, Vas is implying I faked V/LA and that's its scummy to find some time in my lately busy schedule to post a votecount.

BTW, having reads on people based on how suspicious they are of your lurking is just awesome.

[ElectricBadger]

Hmm...better post by Robo, mostly just repeating what others have said, though. And I think being deliberately obtuse about his suspect claim. I'd still like an answer to this:

*I think its because I have absolutely no idea where to start. In the beginning of the thread I felt really lost because it was hard to understand what I should be doing.

I understood my position [in another game] and what I was supposed to do. This is a little more difficult.

I'm confused by this in the wake of your vanilla claim. Why wouldn't you know what you're supposed to be doing?

[ElectricBadger]

Seriously? You have got to be joking with that statement. How do you get that he is being obtuse?

You make no attempt wether to figure out wether I did fake claim or not. You immediatly assume that I Fake claimed. what are your reasons for saying I fake claimed?

That, addressed to Seacore but relating to the same contradiction I asked him about, with specific quotes, which he was ignoring at the time.

And don't get me started about players repeating what others said when Seacore said his vote was on Robo for what others said. Why are you not giving him grief on it?

I considered it basically a null-tell in both cases. I've also repeated several cases, even just this game.

Perhaps "His post is better than previous ones but doesn't introduce any sort of new evidence, insight, revelation or even train of thought that would make him read townie-who-was-trying-but-not-posting-well" would have been a better line. Basically I'm not seeing scum tells at the moment, but I don't see any sudden towniness that explains the dissolution of his wagon, either.

what can I consider scummy other than the usualy scumtells, because this is a theme game speculation will take place and I don't know how to go about this speculation.

There may be other tells based on game mechanics, sure, and I get why you aren't posting those. But you weren't looking for any of the usual ones, either, so that explanation doesn't really sit well with me.

I think that EB means that I'm not acting like I act in most of my games. But I want to know if EB meant that in a good or bad way.

I'm in another ongoing game with you and moderating another. I will not bring up or discuss your meta, sorry.

[ElectricBadger]

Quality.

I like facts better than buddying to push my case, though, so:

EBWOP:

I started getting the impression that the cop was leaning more toward VIdom.

So I did.

*So I moved on.

To answer your reflexive objection I didn't explicitly mention that I was starting to have misgivings about Robocop at the time. DWI.

No, you didn't say so. Which of course is going to stand out, since I specifically asked you about it. Which would be bad enough, pre-emptive self-excusing aside, but you actually said the

opposite

:

1) I'm dropping my pressure to see if any of the other lusers who are saying "oh he has enough pressure" are going to step up.
2) There are no good reasons not to suspect Robocopter except that I dislike the timing of your vote and L-Fluff's vote (whose vote was the one I called out as following public opinion).

And I still find 'timing of my vote' to be a rather ironic case, as you were equally suspicious when I wasn't voting for Robo:

Why not vote Robocopter?

Unvote Robo, Vote Vi

so I can brag in the post game about nailing scum D1.

[ElectricBadger]

Wagon on me ftw. No time to catch up atm, will post tonight or tomorrow.

[ElectricBadger]

And that whole attack on ani at the beginning based on that information I have? Right, that's me making stuff up out of whole cloth

Yup, calling out someone for role fishing is scummy. Gotcha.

Why not vote Robocopter?

Also dramonic isn't at L-1 unless I missed a vote someplace. ani, VV, me, and farside, right? Stop making excuses and vote.

I would like to see him move his vote from VasudeVa, as he's not getting lynched today.

@FluffoftheLlama: Would you like to vote ElectricBadger?

while you named ElectricBadger as part of a hyposcum team Today, you're sure hesitant to vote that way.

Why are you so concerned with telling others how to vote?

Your attack on Robocop based on him "not knowing his place in this game" and equating that to him lying about his role is still bad. I'm curious as to what you think of Robocop right now though.

Well, I see stuff like this:

Which I am, a VT. So please, don't waste your or my or anyone elses time by lynching me.

I'm telling you, Dram, don't do it. Just don't. Don't kill me.

And I'm not really sure why he's still alive; nothing but heaps of AtE and a borderline threat. I think he's a good lynch.

Dash: TM

Stupid page 15... we are going to need to pick up the pace or im going to have to hardcore lurk at certain times.

Meh...does this ever actually work? The attempt to get TM to post more was good, at least.

EB with Seacore which has to do with his reasoning here
Not explaining his reasoning. Finds the repeating of what others say as null.

So you're claiming that townies don't repeat cases?

Which doesn't (1) Answer my question on how RC was being obtuse with his scum list and (2) calls something null when it refers to Seacore.

1) RC was being obtuse with the reason his vanilla claim didn't mesh with his earlier protests that he didn't know how to play his role. What's with scum lists?
2) Despite your implication of hypocrisy, I haven't called repeating cases a scum tell on anyone else, either. It's a lack of the most reliable town tell, which isn't thrilling, but that's about all. Vi is scum, I don't think Vi is likely to be scum with Seacore, ergo I'm not too suspicious of him.

Unvote, Vote Badger

Llama, how likely did you think it was for Tony to show before Percy after the FAKEDASH move.

Any particular reason for voting me? Something more than 'got a problem with that' would be nice.

ElectricBadger - in 171 you said the dramonic wagon was "full of fail". Why?

Did you even look at the wagon? Robo, Ani and Vas?

Robocopter87

opens his eyes and sees

dramonic!

animorpherv1

opens his eyes and sees

dramonic!

ElectricBadger

opens vis eyes and sees

dramonic!

VasudeVa

opens vis eyes and sees

dramonic!

I am puzzled at how E-Badger didn't bother saying anything about Robocop in his catch-up post 310 in spite of the wagon he was on falling apart. But he decided that a dramonic policy lynch was a good idea (ignoring the claimed Vanilla Townie and apparently-still-scum Robocopter, animorpherv1, TonyMontana, et al) but didn't want to put dramonic at L-1 (which he wouldn't have anyway with his vote). There are a couple of things not adding up here.

Didn't say anything about Robo's wagon falling apart...? Are we reading the same post? Highlights:

Okay, that got really weird really fast. Been pondering it for the last day and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

*I think its because I have absolutely no idea where to start. In the beginning of the thread I felt really lost because it was hard to understand what I should be doing.

I understood my position [in another game] and what I was supposed to do. This is a little more difficult.

I'm confused by this in the wake of your vanilla claim. Why wouldn't you know what you're supposed to be doing?

I see pages. I only skimmed.
...
On Robo...his last few posts feel honest and my gut leans VI town now. But some other part of me keeps repeating he's obvscum. Yes I know I'm being indecisive as hell, I'll scan his iso later. I trust my gut for now.
...

Unvote, Vote Mae

for now. Don't remember what she did except for the omnisession.

Elli, did you realize you were switching your vote off a claimed VT at L-1?

...Seacore - why did you push so hard for a claim? Were you expecting to see something?

I'm not going to put him at L-1 until we've heard a bit more about the claim/unvoting mess.

...not sure why it would be scummy not to talk about Robo, but almost the entire post was trying to unravel the why's behind the collapse. The lie there was just too glaring not to call you on.

Not sure how you're calling dramonic a policy lynch - unless you don't think he's done anything scummy? I said we'd have to lynch him at some point - either he's scum, or he's the sort of town scum loves to keep around, so I'm pretty sure he'll be there for LYLO if we reach it without lynching him first. That's not really policy, that's logic - I'd rather keep around scum who are active and posting and use our least informed lynches to get rid of scum like dram. However, Vi's rabid attitude towards Dram is currently making that wagon look kind of unappealing as well.

[ElectricBadger]

So you're claiming that townies don't repeat cases?

You find Robo scummy for repeating others cases, what is the difference?

I've stated a couple times already that I'm NOT suspicious of Robo for it; but I was already suspicious of him and I don't see the sudden 'ZOMG he's a townie' that everyone else seems to see, which is what I was looking for after the collapsed wagon. I just see re-hashed cases and lots of AtE, which people are citing as 'gut' reads that he's town.

Ahhh I saw obtuse and suspect claim and I thought you were talking about him not talking about who he was suspicious of.
So you think that him being confused on where to start (as far as claiming VT) doesn't make sense since he says he didn't know what he supposed to do?

Exactly. The colors thing isn't that confusing (don't let scum know your colors, roger) so I don't understand why being a VT is so hard as to paralyze him into inaction. It feels to me more like he has a complex scum role he doesn't get.

VT role is on p. 1 btw, if people don't have it themselves; I suggest looking it over to see if any of it seems that confusing to you.

[ElectricBadger]

Unvote, Vote Badger

Llama, how likely did you think it was for Tony to show before Percy after the FAKEDASH move.

Any particular reason for voting me? Something more than 'got a problem with that' would be nice.

Still waiting, Elli.

Please stop stealing cases and using them for yourself as a Get-Out-Of-Jail card. You jut copied otherpeople and voted for me.

Lovely.

It's called "pressure". I'll explain it after the game if you're interested. (no condescension intended)

Yeah, I get what pressure is, thanks. Your constant attempts to call out people for not voting with you doesn't really have that feel though.

I'll take another look at the Robocopter and would be fine with additional pressure on him atm.

You're all over the place with Robo. What's your actual opinion? Is he scum or not?

Normally I don't factor that sort of thing into evaluating wagons...
There's certainly the chance that I'm wrong about at least one of their alignments and usually I want the person being wagoned to do something remotely Townish before moving my vote.

I've played with dramonic a couple times before. Waiting for him to do something townish is an exercise in futility. I saw a better wagon, where my vote would be more useful for pressure - ironically because you asked me about it - and I switched.

Just for the record, though, what is your opinion on ani and VV?

Ani's posts are worthless and I think he's scummy for his initial rolefishing (my calling him out on that started this whole mess). Vas I'm still working on. He seemed slightly scummy at first, although I didn't really feel the case against him much: but in review he seems to've dropped into lurking since then, which gives me misgivings. I think it'll be telling whether he actually picks up activity in this game or is full of BS.

I don't remember defending dramonic beyond agreeing with Fluffy that he's more likely to be VI-Town. I've seen dramonic-scum twice and I was impressed at least one of those times. dramonic-Town is very much the opposite. His play has been lacking enough that I've wondered if he's playing himself up, but how often does that happen I mean really.
But ignoring that, if someone you're calling scum is allegedly defending someone, how does that make that someone's wagon unappealing?

Misrep for distancing, nice. You've been rabid = you've been after dramonic. The opposite of what you tried to say there: you seem to honestly want him dead so I'm inclined to think he's not scum with you, and thus the wagon has less appeal to me. The same thing makes me less suspicious of Seacore.

And I'm becoming increasingly bothered by ani, dramonic, Robocopter, notMaemuki, etc. who are putting the pressure on to be right as early as possible before they live to LyLo.

Don't get what you mean here. "to be right as early as possible"?

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}?

Robo, possibly +1. Depends a lot how many scum we have, if there's an SK, etc.

What makes you put these names together?

[ElectricBadger]

However I'm still waiting on EB to answer my question about the difference between calling RC scummy for following and saying it's null when I mention secore doing the same thing.

Ahem:

So you're claiming that townies don't repeat cases?

You find Robo scummy for repeating others cases, what is the difference?

I've stated a couple times already that I'm NOT suspicious of Robo for it; but I was already suspicious of him and I don't see the sudden 'ZOMG he's a townie' that everyone else seems to see, which is what I was looking for after the collapsed wagon. I just see re-hashed cases and lots of AtE, which people are citing as 'gut' reads that he's town.

The actual quote that I think you're referring to is this:

Hmm...better post by Robo, mostly just repeating what others have said, though.

I get how you can interpret it as saying the repeating was a scum tell; the initial comment was unclear as to whether I was calling it null or scummy. It's a game about lying, so I can even get that you don't accept my explanation. But saying I'm not answering you is an obvious lie; I've done so several times.

[ElectricBadger]

@EB: So the only reason you find RC scummy is because of what he said about not understanding his place in this game?

Sigh. No. My reasons:

Fair enough, who is a better lynch though?

Iso of Robo 'cause it's hard to answer without one and I may as well post my reads:

-claims he forgot game (null tell, probably - scum that wants to lurk is more likely to post once or twice and then fade out, like dramonic or Tony, than to just ignore the thread); but rejoins with no commentary of the first 4 pages except the easiest opportunistic vote.
-odd comment on Elli's voting - he admits there's no indication of scum in it, so no reason to say it except to sow general doubt/feel out a potential case; more telling is the bizarre over reaction when questioned about it, which I think is a solid tell.
-defends v. Vi with sarcasm/defensiveness, again not what I'd expect from a townie who wants to get more votes on scum, admits to lack of content but cites again forgetting about the thread (which has nothing to do with it now that he's back and active - amount of effort involved in totalling everyone's votes could have been spent finding something he doesn't dismiss as a non-tell)

Basically he's pushing at players who could have semi-decent cases made against them, but he's not pushing any of that; just spam and over reaction when challenged. Reads as solid scum, I'm just not sure if he's nervous about pushing false cases or is intentionally holding back while bussing scumbuddies.

I also just noticed how absolutely full of fail my current wagon is, so

unvote dramonic

,

vote Robocopter

.

Time for

Mod: Please prod Dramonic

anyways.

BTW, I remarked before this post that robo's information without analysis made pressure votes against him understandable; but note that I didn't include that in my list of reasons for voting him (actually admitting to it is the one town tell I saw), just his horrible excuse about it.

Add to the above his role contradiction (and the fact that he tried to ignore my question about it) and the very weird interactions between him and Vi.

What did you think about what Vi said and do you still find her scummy?

Do you mean something specifically that Vi said? I've been responding to her copiously IMO, to the point where I think I'm tunneling and letting nearly half our players lurk. Reason for that (and how is it not obvious?) is that Yes, I find her scummy.

[ElectricBadger]

How was RC's comment towards Elli odd?

Normally when players are voted they ask for reasoning, respond to reasoning or ignore it...complaining that the attacker votes too often is odd, especially when he concludes "The amount of votes mean nothing."

Where do you get this from?

This, as I explain here. And a review of all the votes in the game to clarify a two word comment was an over reaction, especially considering how little he was posting at the time.

I didn't see all his defense as sarcastic. Aren't most players defensive when questioned?

Look here. Mostly a tone thing for me. He answered Elli similarly as well, in iso 1.

I really don't see anything in his post as an over reaction. Please quote which post you get this from.

His iso 2. And he was spending some time nearly post complaining about Elli's vote against him. He continued to do the same sort of thing later as well, iso 17 he reacts to your request for a game analysis with "Do you want me to go through this whole game with a notepad?" A general sense of his defending himself by making everyone examining him seem like they're unreasonable.

So where was all this analysis of Robo's wagon and defense when he was about to be lynched? Was mine the weakest case against him?

Going to post my case on seacore next post. Hold me to it.

Will do.

[ElectricBadger]

*Those four were placed together because they are the collective of total lurkers. You know, the people you said want to lynch before they do more damage later. Believe it or not, I do read your posts

in some capacity

.

Just curious why you left TM off the list.

*Your attempts to reactively build your reads around me betrays an abject lack of knowledge of my scum meta.

How so?

Question: Do you think people intentionally lie about things that can be readily checked?

Sure. Backed into a corner, a bit too eager, a little lazy or just not expecting someone to check on it. My faith in people is low. Why?

Now back to my 2 issues on you. One is Vi: Do you think it's scummy for Vi to be pushing you on your vote? Why is that scummy?
Why did you have your vote on Dramo for so long and have only looked on RC most of the game?
I reread you Vi post and I still don't see why you find her scummy except for asking you repeatedly about a vote. How is that scummy?

Re: Vi, I think you must have skimmed over a lot of my conversation with her. I'm due for a reread though, so will humor you in the next day or so and restate my case. In the meanwhile, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Elli's vote against me.

I voted Dram in my iso 6, unvoted iso 10, just four posts and 2 days later. Not exactly having my vote on him for "so long." Don't really feel like I've been that tunneled on Robo, either, just spent a lot of time defending my views on him and trying to force people to give some reasons for the unvoting stuff, since that's been the only real event so far today.

[ElectricBadger]

Why don't you look it up for yourself?

You are clearly insane. I'm modding 2, playing 2, and don't feel like I have any time left!

*Shrugs* I have a certain amount of time, and that rarely is enough to spend finding, reading, and making notes on meta. That, and you brought the issue up in the first place.

EB this was your first case on Vi
... Please explain what I'm missing and answer my questions.

All my exchanges with Vi, and you're pulling out one post and claiming that's my entire case? And I've already told you I'd answer, but I need to sleep and work, too. Maybe even say hi to my kid. A day is a pretty good response time.

On the other hand, you did completely ignore my question about Elli's vote. Since you're implying I'm scummy for voting someone without much of a case, I'm really curious to hear why you've had no comments towards a player who refuses to state any case at all, even when asked specifically to explain his vote.

[ElectricBadger]

Am I the desiganated player that is supposed to pounce on everyone?
Everyone hear that apparently I'm supposed to mention every little thing that everyone doesn't.
God help me I swear I'm human. I'm not the only player in this game. You have an issue with Elli's vote go harp on him. Stop acting like everyone else is scummy.
I feel like I'm dealing with children this game. First it's Llama, then Vi and now EB. Do I see anyone else harping on others for not saying anything? Or noticing or commenting.
I swear you people make me want to start smoking all over again.

Wow. Quite dramatic. And quite non-answery.

No, I don't expect you to 'pounce on everyone.' However, I do expect that 1) when asked, you'll be capable of producing some sort of opinion of other players and 2) if you're going to cite something as a scum tell in one player you won't ignore a far worse example in another player.

Basically, you made a choice of whom to attack. You stated two reasons for doing so. I don't think one applies at all and you don't seem to care about a much worse example of the other, so I'm trying to understand your reasoning.

[ElectricBadger]

Re: Vi

-Iso 1 "I'll die overnight" - strangely forced townie claim.
-Early vote/suspicion pattern follows the most opportunistic suspects: Ani, Vas, Maem, dramonic, robocopter
-States a good case v. robo, then reverses herself in iso 23, summed up in my own 13:

I don't get this "Robocop already has enough pressure" rhetoric. It's not like his posting has improved or anything. And in blatant contradiction to that statement, I'm not above derailing the wagon for a while.

I don't quite follow you here. You indicate Robo's posting sounds bad and hasn't done anything to convince us he's town, but you're dropping your pressure and want to derail the wagon on him? Why?

You don't mention any reason not to suspect Robo; I've posted the reasons that I do. Do you disagree with any of them? Or see some indication that Robo is town? That would go a lot further towards removing my vote than decrying it just for being "popular opinion".

-Continues on to contradict herself about pressure on Robo:

More looking (vote-style) at Robocop please; easy game is indeed quite easy

Why not vote Robocopter?

I don't get this "Robocop already has enough pressure" rhetoric.

I dislike the timing of your vote and L-Fluff's vote (whose vote was the one I called out as following public opinion).

The longer this drags on, the more I expect Robocop to flip VI-Town. I would expect n00bscum to not look so... pathetic.
That dramonic wagon still looks great though.

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

Lots of talk to set up distance between herself and Robo and look like she's on the wagon, but once it mounts she jumps off and redirects while simultaneously trying to continue an appearance of pushing for a Robo lynch.
-Continues the contradictory stance on Robo:
Iso 31-

But let's actually talk about things that matter. I contend that Robocop is going to flip Town. Your thoughts?

Iso 33-

Drags on...? Nearly to a lynch 11 pages and 7 days in seems kinda quick to me, if anything.

Forget the page and date.

We found a someone or two who's acting legitimately scummy. He's not posting except to look pathetic on occasion. People are actively saying they don't want to lynch him (that is, they don't want to pressure him). Therefore the game ground to a halt in that regard.

This is more ranting than anything.

I think it's strange that you've completely reversed your opinion to a town read based only on the fact that he's "pathetic" and isn't doing anything.

He's not acting like I would expect scum to in that situation (based on what I expected). With that said, I can't completely disagree with farside's whatever-it-is-but-don't-call-it-Appeal-to-Experience-because-someone-will-take-that-the-wrong-way-hyphen-abuse but I still don't sense that he's going to flip scum based on how he's giving up. (By saying this his chance of doing just that went up by 20% but etc.)

-Jumps from Robo (whom she's calling obvscum) to me with weak reasoning (rolefishing, though I was calling out people who were bringing such up)
-Jumps between dram and I, looking for the easiest lynch

More recent posts have changed in tone and read more town. They've also explored more suspects...notably for me, a strong push in iso 56, 58 and 59 to link farside and I that prompted farside's vote and sudden focus on me.

[ElectricBadger]

You however are pointing to others and I feel like it's a little child saying, "but mom he started it" or "but mom he voted poorly too" I will say what I say to any child. I'm talking to you not the other child. Deal with it.

Sure, ma...I asked for your opinion of one other player's vote. Godawful unreasonable of me. It's not like you keep asking

me

about other players. (Good move to dismiss your hypocrisy with insults rather than explanation though, I don't think anyone noticed!)

Vi pressed you as linked to me; immediately following you felt the need to focus on me. You've been attacking cases you're too lazy to read through, misrepped and outright lied, ignored your so-called tells in others and questions about why you did so.

*looks in crystal ball*
I see a vote coming from EB and Seacore towards me in my future based on OMGUS and no actual evidence.

Wow, you didn't even wait for a vote before pulling out the OMGUS card, that's awesome. Because, of course, the first player to vote can't be scum, right?

Hey Badger. Do you have an opinion on me or not?

I thought 484 was pretty clear; I think you've done a lot of scummy stuff, and while I haven't seen many tells lately that doesn't reverse my opinion. It does, however, mean that a wagon on you doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

There are three players that look like good votes to me atm; we're approaching deadline and only one has a wagon, so:

Unvote Vi, Vote Robocopter

[ElectricBadger]

Which case do you think I'm too lazy to read? Which post did I misrep and where did I outright lie?
I love all these accusations where you post not quote or show where any of this crap happened.

Sure, we can play that game.

You've been attacking cases you're too lazy to read through

@EB: So the only reason you find RC scummy is because of what he said about not understanding his place in this game?

Sigh. No. My reasons:

Fair enough, who is a better lynch though?

Iso of Robo 'cause it's hard to answer without one and I may as well post my reads:

-claims he forgot game (null tell, probably - scum that wants to lurk is more likely to post once or twice and then fade out, like dramonic or Tony, than to just ignore the thread); but rejoins with no commentary of the first 4 pages except the easiest opportunistic vote.
-odd comment on Elli's voting - he admits there's no indication of scum in it, so no reason to say it except to sow general doubt/feel out a potential case; more telling is the bizarre over reaction when questioned about it, which I think is a solid tell.
-defends v. Vi with sarcasm/defensiveness, again not what I'd expect from a townie who wants to get more votes on scum, admits to lack of content but cites again forgetting about the thread (which has nothing to do with it now that he's back and active - amount of effort involved in totalling everyone's votes could have been spent finding something he doesn't dismiss as a non-tell)

Basically he's pushing at players who could have semi-decent cases made against them, but he's not pushing any of that; just spam and over reaction when challenged. Reads as solid scum, I'm just not sure if he's nervous about pushing false cases or is intentionally holding back while bussing scumbuddies.

I also just noticed how absolutely full of fail my current wagon is, so

unvote dramonic

,

vote Robocopter

.

Time for

Mod: Please prod Dramonic

anyways.

EB this was your first case on Vi
... Please explain what I'm missing and answer my questions.

All my exchanges with Vi, and you're pulling out one post and claiming that's my entire case?

misrepped and outright lied

However I'm still waiting on EB to answer my question about the difference between calling RC scummy for following and saying it's null when I mention secore doing the same thing.

Ahem:

So you're claiming that townies don't repeat cases?

You find Robo scummy for repeating others cases, what is the difference?

I've stated a couple times already that I'm NOT suspicious of Robo for it; but I was already suspicious of him and I don't see the sudden 'ZOMG he's a townie' that everyone else seems to see, which is what I was looking for after the collapsed wagon. I just see re-hashed cases and lots of AtE, which people are citing as 'gut' reads that he's town.

The actual quote that I think you're referring to is this:

Hmm...better post by Robo, mostly just repeating what others have said, though.

I get how you can interpret it as saying the repeating was a scum tell; the initial comment was unclear as to whether I was calling it null or scummy. It's a game about lying, so I can even get that you don't accept my explanation. But saying I'm not answering you is an obvious lie; I've done so several times.

2) Despite your implication of hypocrisy, I haven't called repeating cases a scum tell on anyone else, either. It's a lack of the most reliable town tell, which isn't thrilling, but that's about all. Vi is scum, I don't think Vi is likely to be scum with Seacore, ergo I'm not too suspicious of him.

Why did you have your vote on Dramo for so long and have only looked on RC most of the game?
I reread you Vi post and I still don't see why you find her scummy except for asking you repeatedly about a vote. How is that scummy?

I voted Dram in my iso 6, unvoted iso 10, just four posts and 2 days later. Not exactly having my vote on him for "so long." Don't really feel like I've been that tunneled on Robo, either, just spent a lot of time defending my views on him and trying to force people to give some reasons for the unvoting stuff, since that's been the only real event so far today.

ignored your so-called tells in others and questions about why you did so.

On the other hand, you did completely ignore my question about Elli's vote.

Am I the desiganated player that is supposed to pounce on everyone?
Everyone hear that apparently I'm supposed to mention every little thing that everyone doesn't.
God help me I swear I'm human. I'm not the only player in this game. You have an issue with Elli's vote go harp on him. Stop acting like everyone else is scummy.
I feel like I'm dealing with children this game. First it's Llama, then Vi and now EB. Do I see anyone else harping on others for not saying anything? Or noticing or commenting.
I swear you people make me want to start smoking all over again.

Wow. Quite dramatic. And quite non-answery.

No, I don't expect you to 'pounce on everyone.' However, I do expect that 1) when asked, you'll be capable of producing some sort of opinion of other players and 2) if you're going to cite something as a scum tell in one player you won't ignore a far worse example in another player.

[ElectricBadger]

In all this EB calls me out, can you believe that? But votes for RC. Now why would someone I say about voting me worry about voting me if they feel they have a valid case. Why would they go back to an old stand by?
I feel reading this that I have shaken EB and instead of placing a vote on me (which would have been valid) he backed down and voted RC. Why would town player feel the need to back town from me. Mom just doesn't understand that.

Three days to deadline is a very bad time to start a new bandwagon; not voting for you isn't a scum tell, it's an I'm Not An Idiot tell. And frankly you're my worst read for scum. Most of what you did I interpreted as an overdone reaction to Vi's accusations, which was a strange over reaction but not inherently scum. Didn't even consider you vote worthy until 471, where, after your attacks faltered, you tried to restart with a new lousy case rather than looking for scum in someone who wasn't attacking you:

I can't say I agree with your reasoning there EB. I don't see the over reaction. Sarcasm I relate to but I don't see it scummy. I do agree that his post calling Elli out on his voting pattern is odd but I don't see how that is scummy either.

Now back to my 2 issues on you. One is Vi: Do you think it's scummy for Vi to be pushing you on your vote? Why is that scummy?
Why did you have your vote on Dramo for so long and have only looked on RC most of the game?
I reread you Vi post and I still don't see why you find her scummy except for asking you repeatedly about a vote. How is that scummy?

Asking you about Elli wasn't a redirection, or I would have actually posted a case on him - it was to point out your hypocrisy in choosing to renew an attack on me rather than focus on someone else.

Farside's MOM mini-rant thing at Badger continues to make think she is town.

Really? I'll have to act more like a condescending twit in the future then.

L-2, I believe. Claim tiem now?

Wow, asking for a claim at L-2, without any confirmed additional votes? Rolefishing much? Fortunately for you that's apparently not scummy this game, and Vi will probably attack me for calling you out for it.

I am a Watcher. I have three colors, which I won't say specifically in case they aren't posted post-mortem. My ability only functions as long as there are three points of another color in the rainbow. However, my results are not sent to me, but to the Prismatic Robot Pony; I know them to be town but not which player they are.

It was the complexity of the above role that leads me to think Robo is confused by something more than a VT role.

Anyways: good luck town, do something about all the bloody lurkers and tunneling actives. Vi is obvscum (re-read her during the night!), Robo is very probscum. And again:

the Prismatic Robot Pony is mod confirmed town

. Catch you guys in another game.

[ElectricBadger]

Robot Unicorn Watcher

[ElectricBadger]

Question for ElectricBadger. You didn't say anything along the lines of "Unvote me you morons" after claiming, but simply assumed you were going to die ("Catch you guys in another game"). Why claim, then? We would find out everything except the Robot Pony part after you died.

The potential to have a mod-confirmed townie or out counterclaiming scum in the future (re: the PRP) may help town and probably wouldn't be in my reveal.

Where was this when Seacore did the same thing again?

Same place as when hp[leaves] did the same thing. Asking for a claim at L-1 is bad play when there's no one who's willing to hammer, and in Robo's place I wouldn't have responded, but enough people do it as a knee jerk reaction that I don't see it as a particular scum tell anymore.

Asking for a claim at L-2 is much less standard.

[ElectricBadger]

Well...that was sudden and unexpected. Not thrilled with the jump from the Robo wagon (though atm I seem to be the only one who thinks he's suspicious so maybe I'm just an idiot). Ani is a pretty decent lynch though.

Now I'm wondering if Amished's tell about replacements that I never 100% got

What's this referring to? Something outside the game?

A lot of it was scum actually needing to search for other scum (just not knowing if it was a traitor or large ammount of blind scum).

Interesting. So worth a re-read of the game to find any 'hey Dark pillar, I'm with you' sorts of commentary. Obviously not in so many words.

I have no idea what to do with the miller claim, tbh.

[ElectricBadger]

Also, am I the only person seeing a connection between these events?

Llama reads pretty town to me, but the obv-claim notion is interesting. It does explain his setup knowledge, and why he explained how our cop may work.

[ElectricBadger]

I'm thoroughly confused...but I think I'm alive?

[ElectricBadger]

...well, I think we now know far too much about where Percy spends his time on the interwebs.

I'm confused. Can EB still post and vote and claim what his night action was and whatnot?

I'm assuming by the flavor and listing me as not voting that the dark machine was staved off by debuggery. I didn't get any PM or response to my own clarifying the situation, so what's in the thread is all there is to go by.

Despite my previous issues with Vi's play style, her iso 95 and 98 yesterday as well as the curing this morning can't have been from scum. Vi=town.

Vi: Did you know that by stating the bold that EB would be restored?

This seems like a very weird question.

Elli, 729 was info without analysis...what do the vote counts tell you and why did you vote hp?

If in fact there is A posioning SK then what did the Mafia do?

I'm fairly sure the answer to this is obvious, so I'm curious what sort of response you're looking for?

I spent some time looking at farside's case on Seacore and going over his iso; will type up the notes shortly and post them, but basically I see solid tells for and against seacore-scum.

With hp already at L-2 I think a reread is in order there as well.

For now, Vi-hate no longer clears lurker-dram, so he's a good place to sit my vote.

See: dramonic

[ElectricBadger]

Dramonic, what don't you like about the hp wagon? What makes you vote seacore?

Iso of Seacore:

Omnino:
-Confused by game, suggests win condition as mason recruiter
-Newbie read IMO, not scum or town

Seacore:
-Iso 2 immediate dismissal of dram/ani “usual scum scent”, Llama and TM as town w/o reasons
-In favor of robo reasons Iso 3 “1) He's scummy as hell for reasons already mentioned
2) He's not helping us (so at worst we lose unhelpful town)
3) I believe significant information will come from his lynch, regardless of the flip.” Restates 22.
-Pushes for claim Iso 3, 4, 8, explains 15 and 37: meta, concern for quick hammer. I think the request is explainable, but asking three times is a lot
-Iso 9, 10, 17, 18 again defending dramonic; Iso 18 even brings in dram’s meta. This is a lot of effort to protect an unhelpful player without any town tells (and why concern for him at all when he's content to policy lynch Ani for the same thing?)
-Iso 10 suspicion of Vas but no reason for it, mentions again 19 but still hasn’t looked into the case for it; backwards way of finding scum!
-Iso 11 “Also, why are people specifically posting town reads? Isn't this generally agreed to be a terrible idea?” – but he started the game off by posting 4 town reads!
-Iso 13 is the first real scumhunting v. Robo (vanilla claim as non-complicated, coasting during pressure rather than scumhunting) - decent posts, but why did it take this long for anything to show up
-Iso 17 heavily against a dram lynch but would support it at deadline. Logical position for town, but why back track?
-Iso 20 pushes more at Robo, but switches to me “can see the points against him”; again no original case or scumhunting, just joining wagon, then reads and flips back to Robo iso 21, EB town. Not much reasoning and again evidence following suspicion.
-Iso 21 Again Vas as a good lynch but still no reasons at all, 23 case is still “to come”. Elli as town (jumping off wagon at L-1, agree) and TM as town, no reasons.
-Iso 24 – *finally* a point against Vas (contradiction of lurking and suspecting dramonic for same), another weak attack 29
-Iso 27, 28, 30, 32, 33 defends me
-Iso 25 and 26 defends Ani’s lurking v. Vas, and town read on Ani in his first post but 41 votes Ani , 43 “lets kill scum/lurker/anti-town ani now please” to the point of blacklisting 44, a much harsher attack than any he brought against Vas.

Stuff that stands out: Constantly excuses dramonic as town without any pro-town reasoning; constantly stating suspicion of Vas without any reasons; evidence of finding reasons after establishing a position rather than before; but he also takes and holds unpopular positions pushing robo case and defending me, which both draw lots of suspicion for very little/no benefit to scum.

Links: Many links to dramonic (repetitively excuses scumminess), somewhat less to Vas (constant unreasoned attacks are potentially bussing?); much lesser to Llama or TM (unreasoned town reads)

@Seacore:
1- Why the reversal in opinion of Ani?
2- Why the suspicion of Vas?
3- You called for more votes for "scum/lurker/anti town" Ani - why the opposite stance v. dramonic?

[ElectricBadger]

EB, you just asked what makes

us

vote seacore and then ISO'd him.

Dram and you are an "us"? 'Cause he's the only person I asked.

As for the rest, just because there are reasons I might vote someone doesn't mean dram shouldn't post his own. Way too many unreasoned votes going around this game.

[ElectricBadger]

1 & 3 To me, this is pretty much the same question. We were running out of time. ...I didn't have a viable prime scum target.
This was then combined with the complete lack of engagement as we were approaching a late lynch.

I feel that my original read of ani has been shown to be true. He's a terrible player, who nearly always comes off as scummy but is simply anti town.

A valid reason to vote Ani, but I'm still curious why you were calling him scum at the end of the day if you had such a town read on him.

2) My Vas case. My ISO 24 I think is reason enough to vote for him. But there's been others. He admitted to choosing which wagon to back based on who was on those wagons, instead of which had the better case. And I'll admit, there's also a vibe there. And I find it odd that other people haven't seemed to question some of his moves.

Both of those occurred well after you started calling him scum, so I'm also a little concerned that you were accusing someone based only on "vibe" without any attempt to present some evidence.

And at least one of : SOC/SEACORE is scum.

I think that it is pretty obvious who we think that is.

Having a bandwagon isn't evidence of guilt, just as not having one doesn't mean innocence.

hp: you were after Llama hard yesterday, then no commentary at all after the claim. What do you think of Llama now? And we're well into D2 without any pressure out of you - who's scum?

[ElectricBadger]

Hey Badger, why dramonic?

At the time I voted, he was the only player who hadn't posted today; and haven't decided on a wagon to push yet today, the two major ones are scummy but not quite obvscum.

In other news I'm sad most are ignoring my comments about the lack of kill.

Been doing my utmost to ignore all the setup discussion surrounding the lack of kill in the hopes it would stop. But yes, your soft claim is noted. I'm processing what to do with it based on what happens if you're wrong - and at this point that's probably an 'oops, my bad' discussion, so it carries some weight but not as much as an actual claim; but that course of action probably isn't great either. There's not even evidence yet that the poisoning wasn't the mafia hit: basically there's a lot of 'ifs' for your action to be taken as proof.

[ElectricBadger]

I checked with Percy last night, Ani was town.

No time for more commentary atm.

[ElectricBadger]

A D2 massclaim with only town dead, and he with an unclear role? Are we basically assuming the game is completely breakable, then?

I'm against. First thing most reviewers look for is assurance that a mass claim won't bust the game.

How confident is everyone that myself, Vi, EB and RC are town here? Im actually debating a massclaim here, especially as all of the "probably town" seeming people have claimed at least partially.

You've provided interesting information, but I don't see anything in your partial claim that can prove you're town. Although it's a bold move, your behavior is an excellent play for an NK immune SK: present your role as a miller, use knowledge of your own role to out mafia and feel town, and support a mass claim so you and the mafia know exactly who to hit so town is taken out of the game quickly. If such is the case it explains the lack of a mafia kill (you have a specifically anti-mafia ability and knowledge and probably would have been the obvious target) and why I was a priority for an SK kill (watching is one of the only game mechanics that could break your claim). Alternatively, if mafia have to find one another then again, your game fits those goals nicely too, as Vi pointed out yesterday. And in review I'm not sure why you announced that scum might be looking for each other without any evidence of it - a miller claim would virtually assure you'd stay alive overnight, and better to keep looking for signalling scum when they aren't aware of being observed.

Also, I still don't like Robo's claim. Vi is obvtown though.

In other news, we seem to've moved from condescending to passive aggressive. Yay.

Dear Journal: People are falling back on the old idea that "setup speculation is bad bad bad." and I don't have the personal endurance to argue against a deep seated idea right now. *frustration*

So you want us to speculate, aren't going to explain why, and have nothing to contribute to said speculation?

I'm also getting attacked by that stupid content angle again, but this time the buzzword is "cases"

So you're claiming you've posted a lot of content?

[ElectricBadger]

In other news, we seem to've moved from condescending to passive aggressive. Yay.

I feel like a real menace to society now.

Nah, that was a poke at the mom voice and the dear diary BS.

*Is anyone else noticing that hp[leaves] is explicitly looking for a third party and only a third party?

Very good point.

Maemuki
-Iso 2: long, but pure fluff, votes omnino – only more useless player
-Continues with zero scumhunting
-iso 8 isn’t going to move vote until slot has been filled and ‘redeemed’ – VERY scummy, trying to earn townie points as anti-lurker but is actually actively lurking herself to do it
-light attacks on robo but refuses to vote him

Summary: Generally pointless, no scumhunting, voting an empty slot…seems to’ve mistaken the game for a chat group. Quits when called out on vote. Scummy read.

Hp[leaves]
-iso 2 votes Vas (lurking) – valid, but also easy first vote…meh.
-iso 4 first analysis: TM = neutral read…not very helpful
-iso 5 on llama, votes, mediocre case
-iso 6 “Claim, scum” – no comments or suspicions on me at all, but suddenly convinced I’m scum – transparent attempt to follow the crowd
No commentary on Llama following his claims? Strange to abandon primary suspect without a word
-iso 11 v. unreasoned votes, valid defense. Setup speculation – only an SK, no mafia…unlikely to have a single scum in a 12 player game; attempt at misdirection?
-iso 12 more setup speculation – very tenuous link between roles, but no conclusions; more distraction is unhelpful to town
-iso 13 backtracking on setup spec, promises detailed read on Seacore (competing wagon makes this very overdue) - but only comment is vague, no questions or analysis
-iso 15 is barely a case on dram, obviously a token vote after being called out by Vi rather than an explanation - very scummy

Summary: Heavy lurking, minimal scumhunting; several scum tells and no town tells.

I definitely have a theory here but I'll wait for responses to the above.

*Curious*

[ElectricBadger]

I'm going to ask again. I might not have the biggest word count, but I've put stances down and provided opinions. What more are you looking for? What haven't I commented on?

You give commentary, but I don't really see any effort to find or confront scum from you; most notably, your questions are almost exclusively rhetorical or defensive. You come off more as an observer than a player.

[ElectricBadger]

Hmm. I greatly dislike this direction, and will blatantly attempt to derail it.

Unsee dramonic, See hp[leaves]

L-1. If you're serious about your suspicions, Llama, push him to claim and we'll move from there. I'd much rather one scummy individual claim than we feed all our info to the scum.

[ElectricBadger]

It refers getting killed at night as malfunctioning and dying. At first I just thought it was flavor; but as EB got poisoned and malfunctioned due to that, it made me think poisoning is the only kill method in this game.

Hmm... That's plausible based on the first statement you made Today.

I also think there's no mafia in this game. Just a SK. If there's a mafia, that win condition (3 points of every color) is

very hard

nearly impossible to achieve.

Mmm. Actually, I find the remark a bit odd in review. Why would it be harder for multiple partners to achieve something than a single SK? The opposite seems more likely. Attempting to discount links between players without reason is unhelpful.

Scum would also know whether it was their kill or not (unless they're a traitor), so an informed guess isn't really a town tell.

As for the role, it's a gut check but unverifiable; BP is a good claim for scum. This ups the stakes, but it's still down to whether he's scum or not. Nothing in the claim convinces me he isn't, so I'm content where my vote is at.

[ElectricBadger]

Challenge the prod time limit, try to fit in without catching much attention by doing some weak scumhunting to not get NKed and lynched, and attempt to redirect any attention drawn towards you. That's how I imagine any BP to play anyway although he did play that horribly.

I've never played with a BP, but I was a paranoid gun owner once, and I imagine the play would be similar: both roles are ones that you WANT to be targetted as the NK, so I was super aggressive town, dropped a couple fake role tells, etc.

The best play for a BP would have been to sacrifice oneself to ensure power roles could carry on afterwards and that one wouldn't be lynched - the opposite of lurking.

Also, his support of a mass claim is a huge tell. Knowing he was the likely lynch today - if it really would give us two nights - would make claiming our PRs an

especially

bad move. Claiming his own role in any but the most extreme case prevents him from being an NK target and, if he were town, would leave him as a continuing threat to town. He's either scum or town that's willing to work against his own side to keep alive and lurk uselessly in the corner.

Kill the scum and lets move on with the game.

[ElectricBadger]

(Hair-brained alternative: wait until lylo to lynch him, where even if he is telling the truth his mislynch is no worse than any other mislynch so it doesn't matter what his claim is. But that's a dumb strategy no matter how you sell it.)

IF he's town then scum would kill him at LYLO-1 and we'd lose our day at the worst possible moment and hand the scum a victory.

@Badger: What do you mean similar? BP's 'skill' activates on lynch or night kill. PGO would want the NK, BP will not.

I thought BP only triggered on a lynch. If it triggers on an NK then our best action is even more obvious; with the claim out we're going to lose a day at some point unless he's scum. Earlier in the game is better for town.

[ElectricBadger]

Meh...will try to find time for an iso on vas, but he seems more lurker than scum atm. The bandwagon and the sudden leap off hp-scum seems to indicate innocence.

[ElectricBadger]

Please get off the hp wagon and move elsewhere.

Le shrug...hp was scummy to begin with, his claim is full of holes, the attempt at WIFOM and evasiveness to explain his play just reeks of scum, and a lynch will only be riskier nearer endgame (as will a NK). I'm more content with where my vote is at now than before the BP stuff, actually.

Everyone seems to want to believe that the poison is the only method and is the "mafia" method.

I'm increasingly convinced otherwise, actually. In retrospect there was nothing indicating I couldn't speak at the start of the day, and having guaranteed claims from all our investigation roles is unlikely.

If you can openly conclude that malfunction is the only kill method, you are scum.

My role PM implies that malfunctioning and then dying is the only kill method. And the only "kill" that succeeded last night had that kill method. I'm not up for lynching Seacore unless there are two kills the next night.

Joy, we're on Easy Mode.

[ElectricBadger]

Fixed.

I keep saying that the lynch/NK actually isn't as risky as it's made out to be, but whichever.

Don't get. Why do you keep saying not to lynch him then?

*Could you please show me the holes in question? (aside from his support for a massclaim)

The mass claim is kind of a biggie, but also the unlikelihood of a BP in the game generally and his insistence on a single kill mechanism after saying knowing such was a scum tell.

*Are you referring to VasudeVa's attempt at explaining his behavior as well as his "Haha, WIFOMing the scum" comment?

Nope, to hp's backtracking on his claim after we confronted his support of a mass claim:

My stance about the massclaim is pretty normal if you consider when my ability triggers (or is it? Haha, WIFOMing the scum. I may have made a mistake though). Which I'm not going to elaborate.

"That first claim didn't count! And I have knowledge about the scum setup that I didn't bother to mention when I was freaking out about a quick hammer!"

I take it as a natural extension of this that you think Seacore is scum?

That assumes farside is town and is correct about stopping the kill. Too many variables for this to be today's best lynch, but he could prove farside town and a proven farside would be like a versicolor death star. But I don't get the super scum vibes I do from hp.

What do you think of hp[leaves]+VasudeVa?

If he were scum with hp I think he would have used the BP claim as an excuse to jump to a new target rather than keep pushing on his buddy, so no.

[ElectricBadger]

Farside - you've stuck on Seacore all day, despite other wagons that seem to have appealed to you...are you as sure of your evidence as that signals?

Don't want a claim, just whether it's seacore that's keeping you there or the quality of the other wagons.

[ElectricBadger]

Meh.

VV and Seacore don't seem like scum together, and Seacore seems a bit scummier even without farside's softclaim. If it can confirm her it'd be well worth the lynch. I think we're fools to ignore hp, but-

Unvote hp, vote Seacore.

[ElectricBadger]

Yeah, kinda figured that was the case.

I'm still not thrilled about a mass claim but no real issue with it at this point either.

I think start with Seacore and Dramonic. Farside is either town or has had a fake claim ready for quite a while and wasn't too worried about using it, so I'm not really concerned about her going early.

[ElectricBadger]

Seacore is probTown. farside is slightly less probTown but nonetheless.

They posted contradictory claims and both are town? I'm not understanding what scenario you see happened.

Of the two, I think farside is more likely to be town.

I don't see the claim as daring, I see it as flubbed, which is exactly what I'd expect from newbscum.

I like my vote where it's at, but Reaper definitely needs to switch.

Also, with robocopter and reaper charlie, "RC" may not be a good nick to use.

[ElectricBadger]

I like my vote where it's at, but Reaper definitely needs to switch.

blah: "switch from lurker to active."

[ElectricBadger]

Reaper - if you're town, please claim immediately with any actions...can't talk at all once Percy posts the lynch.

[ElectricBadger]

However I have a question to EB. Please tell me you targetted VV or Seacore yesterday?

I targetted Vi...and looks like you'd've RB'd me anyways. Would still like to hear from him though.

I want Seacore lynch but apparently Dram needs dying.

Sigh. Both you and seacore's main suspects are the players who already appear to be dying. Or do you have an alternate idea of what's happening?

@Vi: Yes, that's obviously the point I'm trying to make.[/sarcasm]
Accuse me of lurking if it amuses you, but when you accuse me of ignoring something specifically when I've had several similar disappearences in the closest few days that's BS.

It's kind of sad when your best self defense is that you've been worthlessly unproductive and suspiciously lurking the entire game.

[ElectricBadger]

EB: Why would you not target VV after his claim last night?

Same reason as you, I think. I assumed Vi could cure again (or at least the scum would worry he could) and therefore he was a more obvious target than Vas.

Besides, killing either vas OR me would break our watching, so targetting him would only give a 50% chance if they went after our PR.

[ElectricBadger]

My reply was going to be much less polite.

[ElectricBadger]

Vi: When do we lynch hp-scum?

[ElectricBadger]

Charlie, welcome to the game.

Please claim immediately.

[ElectricBadger]

Is that your full title?

[ElectricBadger]

As for math, here's where we stand.

8 Townies, with two about to die
2 Mafia

Unless the mafia have two kills, we're looking at an SK somewhere as well.

I'm also increasingly suspicious about Llama's claim. Reaper's flip confirms scum are colorless, but Seacore's investigations reveal role, not color/lack thereof - no town mechanism is based on that.

Thoughts on a fake miller claim gone wrong? As there's no reason to give that to a townie.

[ElectricBadger]

No, Charlie the unicorn is innocent. He's slightly off-white in colour; some would say he is

grey

in colour.

What is

BLACK

doing in your Kingdom? You go closer to investigate, and find a large contraption draining the Colour from the surroundings. It is a bulbous pylon, thrusting out of the tiles in the Dance Floor. Around it, there is no colour - only

BLACK

and

GRAY

.

Easy mode continues.

But since that won't happen today-

V

o

t

e

D

r

a

m

[ElectricBadger]

V

o

t

e

D

r

a

m

St

ic

k t

on

gu

e o

ut

at

Vi

[ElectricBadger]

Just so you know... he is making fun of a meme here.

So a randomly inserted

witty

comment can't have significance to the game? Weren't you the one who said the scum don't know each other and we should watch for them to communicate?

[ElectricBadger]

Well. Percy did say there was no guarantee this game would make sense.

My assumption is that VV was the SK, since there were two kills last night, after Reaper was lynched. Colored v. colorless and different colors on the reveal definitely indicate they weren't on the same side though.

Trying to figure out if I can get something more from my role; the specific wording states that Vas and I were working together against the threat to the digital kingdom. I guess that leaves the possibility that he was an SK working 'together' against mafia, although it still seems very bastard moderish.

I sent a PM to Percy to confirm my understanding of the watcher role, but that part is pretty clear. So my role is either outright lying or town reporting info to scum, which is...diabolical, honestly. Something was definitely sent, though, 'cause he knew I targetted llama N1.

Also ZMG Robo, hope you're okay!

[ElectricBadger]

I exchanged some PMs with Percy about my role, basically he just confirmed that, as far as I know, I work as I explained earlier - a watcher with my results sent elsewhere. I tried picking at the fact that it specifies the results are sent to the PRP, NOT the jealous princeling, to see if I could get some more info but I didn't even get a response on that part. I also asked if my ability still does anything and he said I could 'send in something if I wanted.' I decided not to.

[ElectricBadger]

I'll be upright honest with everyone:

I've read through every page in this thread, around 80% of each page.
I've read the first 15 pages in detail.
I've read pages 16-18 in minor detail.
I've skimmed through the rest.

Have you read through the game yet? Who are your suspects and why?

Why do you want a complete claim from Vi?

[ElectricBadger]

ElectricBadger, who do you think is mafia? Short answer is okay.

You. hp was obvscum, you haven't been much better.

I have suspicions about Llama. A colorless townie doesn't make a great deal of sense to me when Seacore was apparently a role-specific cop and I don't feel that his claim has really added up, most glaringly:

My roles secondary ability implies that at least one scum doesnt know the others as they have an ability to search for other scum.

...followed by a later claim of no abilities at all, just colorless/miller.

[ElectricBadger]

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Unless I'm REALLY confused, there are only 7 alive, and 4 to lynch.

No, my arithmetical error. Fixed! ~Mod.

[ElectricBadger]

I guessed that you think so, ElectricBadger. Do you like using meta?

Meh. Not really, as it's a weak tell imo since play changes a great deal based on non-role stuff. It's useful at times, and I've used it before, but I think players here generally overstate its importance.

Why do you ask?

[ElectricBadger]

Because if you were to say yes, I would tell you to go meta me in my 4 completed newbie games

I modded your last one; I'm aware of it.

Anyway, nice to see you give a vague answer with that "not really". Non-commitment is the way to go this stage of the game I guess.

Super. What's your opinion of meta qua evidence?

The evidence against ElectricBadger and VV being linked is irrefutable: based on claims. I think they are both Jealous Princlings, maybe out to... oh take over the kinngdom by getting the royalty lynched or something.

So your take is that, as a pair of scum with an opposing faction, we chose to paint a target on ourselves as PR prob-townies and fake claim a role that links us publicly and is nearly impossible to falsify without a mass claim? And that I then did everything I could to oppose said mass claim?

See I came up with the exact opposite. We had a cop looking for members of seacores faction, mafia that can endgame more people then normal after achieving color condition seems bastardly, it just makes more sense to me that TM-Soc was the SK and VV is part of mafia faction to me.

If TM/Soc/Reaper was an SK, who killed Vas? He was definitely part of a mafia group.

EB: Why did you target Llamafluff night one?

He claimed an anti-mafia ability, seemed to have a bunch of setup knowledge, and indicated another ability. He seemed like a likely kill and also was unlikely to be visited by a cop, so a lesser chance of multiple visitors.

Basically he was the only claimed PR (or assumed to be such) other than myself, and at the time I didn't have a town read on anyone yet.

[ElectricBadger]

How bout we focus on what we know instead of what we don't know.
Lets list some facts.
Anybody willing to oblige?

I know lots of facts. Any in particular you're looking for?

Im just confused about this game at this point and am going to just start working under the assumption of Soc-SK and VV-mafia goon and see what I cant find

You're going to assume the one scenario we can definitely disprove?

Vas was able to tell(???not sure, how many people left to claim after him?) that there was no real prismatic pony, and breadcrumb it in.

I assume it was a given fake claim; definitely there was a mechanic there and info sent, as he knew who I targetted.

It makes some sense; it increased the chances of cross-kills, which is a help in balancing a reasonably small 12 player game with two scum factions.

What's your opinion of meta qua evidence?

Difficult to obtain (requires lots of work) but if available in processed form then by all means I'm ok for using it for a case against a suspect.

So you were planning to send me off to read a bunch of meta when you're not willing to do so yourself?

If TM/Soc/Reaper was an SK, who killed Vas?

He was definitely part of a mafia group

Why definitely?

Because Vas didn't kill himself and I doubt there are 3 scum factions.

[ElectricBadger]

Looking at colour flips, it is reasonable to assume that each colourful member have 3 colours. Assuming that the colours of the dead are obtained by the mafia (quite the obvious assumption), the mafia have:

4

Orange

2

Green

2

Blue

2

Yellow

1

Red

1

Purple

So that calculates to...

a minimum of 3 more deaths for mafia victory by colours

, assuming that the mafia win condition is the one in the first post.
If we mislynch today, farside22 dies, another poisoning at night...if the mafia selects people with the correct colour, town loses. We're somewhat in lylo.

Just occurred to me - 3 more deaths being potentially a loss assumes all three have colors.

A Llama lynch ensures we either kill scum or don't lose any colors - or both. It's the only lynch today that will ensure we aren't in lylo and get another lynch tomorrow (since night kills die before lynches).

Vote: Llama

[ElectricBadger]

I know this is "lynching" as in "involuntary removal from the population" but I'd like to see if he posts something in the next few <length of time>s.

Of course I will, but I'm really not sure what you're looking for.

The quality votes against me:
-In an act of undisguised OMGUS, Llama votes me based on the assumption that Reaper was an SK that was apparently still killing the day after he died, ignoring the logical reasons against it. Attach repeated comments about not paying attention to the game for tomorrow's 'my bad' post.
-Elli's vote is based on my 'avoiding' the Ani wagon, as though that were a logical thing for scum to do when the only competing wagon within hours of deadline was MY OWN.
-Vi's...honestly I don't know what the hell that was, it's a smorgasboard of 'evidence' ignoring any inconvenient conflicting facts, linking me to both Vas and Reaper - apparently we're all one scum team and we're killing ourselves?

I guess some of those individual facts aren't laughable, just that you're trying to use them all, so to address a couple highlights:
-I avoided the Reaper wagon because I thought (still think, but happy we got lucky) that lynching a new replacement within a day without a single word from them was a shitty way to treat someone who's willing to help us out. And we were on a good lynch that I figured we'd come back to after Reaper made a token comment. It really never crossed my mind that it would go to a lynch.
-I avoided the Vas wagon because I'd seen his Watcher breadcrumbs.
-Dunno, guess it's WIFOMy but I really don't see how people think I would link myself to a scumbuddy in a fake claim. 2 for 1 special isn't really my style. Is it just completely unfathomable that a townie and SK could have linked roles? Seriously, death by bastard modding is going to be a really lame way to end a 54 page game.

Sadly this game doesn't seem to have any one I view helping the town any more.

Yeah, pretty much.

[ElectricBadger]

Now don't say this if you aren't going to provide examples; otherwise nobody benefits except the person tossing the rhetoric out.

I did; that you're trying to link me to competing scum factions.

As for killing yourselves, again, I have no idea how to explain the extra kill. Nobody does.

I have an idea: cross kill. There are no killing townie roles, and multiple scum factions. Do you see any indication of another mechanic that would counter the idea?

I don't see any mention of this. Anywhere. At all. There's a huge gap between VV's claim and your call to RC to play better, with no mention of VaVa himself.

What would I have said? I was trying to AVOID a claim, so I didn't mention anything beforehand (and besides could have been wrong) - afterward there wasn't any point.

vote Elli.

Why Elli over Llama, btw?

^^^Am i missing something?

The timeline. Reaper died the day before Vas did.

[ElectricBadger]

@EB: Why Llama over Elli?

1) His role is busted: a colorless miller makes no sense in the face of a role cop, and wouldn't delude town as he claimed.
2) His claim is busted: the implication of primary and secondary abilities doesn't match with a miller with no night action anyways.
3) As a claimed colorless he's the safest lynch, as there's no chance the front page WC will be met before we have a chance to lynch tomorrow.

Elli doesn't feel overly town to me, but I don't see a smoking gun like I do with Llama. And while you've said several times lately that Elli is scum you haven't posted much evidence for it. So perhaps I should rephrase to "would you please explain your logic for Elli-scum".

[ElectricBadger]

I

do

have a question for ElectricBadger though, and I apologize if it has already been answered.
You said that the Prismatic Robot Pony is

mod-confirmed Town

. What was the basis for that?

Mentioned this yesterday, but no worries: without being too quotey, my role pm states that the PRP and I are working together against the threat to the digital kingdom, and then goes on to explain my watcher role with results being sent to another player. I interpreted 'working together' to mean we were on the same team, but in retrospect I'm forced to assume it was an 'enemy of my enemy' collaboration sort of meaning. I'm dissatisfied with that, but I'll leave the rest for post game discussion.

This weekend is absolute crud for me (busiest weekend of the year, and I'm pulling a ton of overtime) but I'll try to get in an iso of Elli within the next couple days.

[ElectricBadger]

Sorry for the delay, all - our Memorial Day insanity is now mostly over, and I can do things other than work at work, so starting that iso.

The last few days of inactivity are frustrating but actually kind of reassuring to me - no ninja hammer. Elli was also already on my wagon at L-1, so not in a position to ninja there either.

Looking forward to Robo's post as well. Is Elli scum?

[ElectricBadger]

*Crosses fingers and hopes you guys are right*

[ElectricBadger]

*Crosses fingers and

hopes you guys are right

*

Washing your hands of the lynch?

My view was pretty well expressed before the wagon started, but since the game is still going I'm reasonably sure I was wrong, actually.

[ElectricBadger]

Then why cross your fingers?

*Rolls eyes*

[ElectricBadger]

Well played, all.

As for Llama's comments, I agree that the scum WC seemed much more forgiving than a normal game: there's little chance I would have lived to the bitter end.

However, I also felt that the scum team was astonishingly underpowered. We had no real PR at all; DH not knowing who the princelings were meant we couldn't really target threats well, and a cross kill or lynch was pretty much inevitable; being forced to sacrifice one of our own after losing DH annihilated us; and the poison-kill and poison doc bred confirmed townies with votes faster than we could kill them irregardless of game play.

Ultimately, it took some amazing turns of luck to keep me alive: Vi curing me, the kill on Vas implying he was an SK, and the lucky color draw on charlie (which would have been a suicide NK otherwise).

My basic frustration in the game was the super-importance of the DH role and the @#$# players who kept being shuffled through it. In review, a twilight pardon of Ani would have 'proven' Soc and wouldn't have really cost us very much. The repeated lurking was just godawful frustrating and I still can't believe Reaper got himself killed for it. Vas and I were nearly positive at that point that we'd lost the game (and very seriously considered resigning), as we didn't have a WC or night kill until one of us died and could only do our mass kill thing immediately or not at all.

Have to admit as well that I'm inordinately pleased with my fake claim working out. I was a bit frustrated at our fake claims being the same role and one nearly impossible to falsify, and with titles that stood out glaringly besides. Initially I only intended to stay alive for a short time - it was actually my intention to ninja hammer when the opportunity presented itself - so it's kind of ironic that I was the one to finish.

Finally, in case there are any doubts - there was no bastard modding at all on Percy's part. Felt really guilty constantly accusing him of it

Anyways, thanks for the great time guys, it was a really nice final game here.

[ElectricBadger]

Holy Crap! We won! Badger, I love you so much. <3.

You were an awesome scumbuddy!

[ElectricBadger]

^.^ That's the point.

To be fair, though, random and dogged pressure worked quite a bit on town as well. Actually, because panicked town was unwilling to adapt their claims and scum was, it worked much more effectively against town.

The amount of claiming and abandoned wagons also really hurt town. Without it we couldn't have picked off PRs so well, and there probably wouldn't have been a mass claim so my watcher claim could have been outed.

I don't think I would have done too much differently on the end of the Robo wagon as town, 'cause you'd have probably been better off going with the first townie lynch and following the clues the next day. I joined it for garbage reasons though, which surprisingly wasn't what people focused on My 'questions' about colors were also kinda surprising as evidence, as I've done the exact sort of thing as town before and generally speaking Vas and I felt we were pretty well informed about the colors thing.

I was WAY too twitchy and eager for a lynch though...comes of not having been scum in the last 18 months

But I suggest you take a look at who Percy said won.~

Consider it payment for ReaperCharlie Twilight-posting.

Princeling WC was to win with DH, so I'd consider he won.

Since all the original DH's either dropped out or never posted, though, it'd be damned lame of them to claim the same.

Had we conclusively known there was only one scum faction, EB would have been toasted.
I've seen people donate results to SKs; I

haven't

seen people donate results to Mafiosi.

Had you known that, there never would have been a kill breaking our claims and we would have walked through the game

I'm still really surprised that with an unprovable claim, a flipped scum partner and a bad voting record I survived...I put it down a bit to my own efforts at 'proving' there was an SK but mostly to town out-thinking themselves.