Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[curiouskarmadog]

meh,

just realized my vote was the hammer, wasnt following the vote count(no excuse)...ahhh fuck it. Have a feeling if Pom isnt scum, I am gone tomorrow.....Pom, your ass better be scum.

[Javert]

I am a hider. I have weak mode, which is normal hider, and strong mode, in which kills directed it me do not affect me. I hid with farside22 last night on strong mods, for fear of vig.

As others have pointed out, not only does the 'strong' version of this role already equate to what a normal hider does, but this claim is also vague on the details.

What exactly does the weak role do? Do you die if you hide behind scum? Could you be successfully targeted by nonkilling roles while under the weak or strong versions of the role?

I am pretty happy with this lynch. But curiouskarmadog, I don't think you were the hammer – Albert B. Rampage voted her twice.

[Jahudo]

Yeah, she should be at L-1.

Pom,

What happens to you if noone tries to kill you, but you hide behind scum? In weak mode? In strong mode?

What happens to you if you hide behind town and if someone tries to kill you? In weak mode? In strong mode?

What happens to you if you hide behind town and if someone tries to kill your town target? In weak mode? In strong mode?

[curiouskarmadog]

cool....ok, then Pom can still answer my question.

[Papa Zito]

x_x

[Patrick]

Votecount

Pomegranate (9) -- Albert B. Rampage, RichardGHP, Porochaz, Jahudo, Seraphim, Espeonage, Anon, Amished, curiouskarmadog
Porochaz (1) -- Javert
Espeonage (2) -- Pomegranate, Sando
NickF227 (1) -- Ojanen

Not voting: farside22, Faraday, dybeck, boberz, NickF227
18 alive, 10 to lynch.

Deadline: 1st of May

[Pomegranate]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

Strong Mode:
-Same as previously, but I don't die if a kill targets me. I used strong mode last night for fear of vig.

One thing about this role is that I can use it to confirm townies. If I'm let live (which I seriously doubt at this point), I can announce who I will hide with at night. If I don't die, then who I hid with is confirmed town If I die, (and I mentioned that I planned to use Strong Mode), then whoever I hid with is scum.

[Seraphim]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

There seems to be absolutely no point to this role besides "confirming" town which is strangely convenient.

Not to mention Hider is a favorite scum fakeclaim.

Can someone lynch this lying scum?

[Porochaz]

What happens if you target scum in the strong mode?

[Pomegranate]

I die.

[Pomegranate]

Also, I have one more very serious post to make before I die. So please hold off on hammering until late tonight, as I plan to post it by then. It should've posted a minute ago, but my computer froze up and it got erased or something.

[farside22]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

Strong Mode:
-Same as previously, but I don't die if a kill targets me. I used strong mode last night for fear of vig.

One thing about this role is that I can use it to confirm townies. If I'm let live (which I seriously doubt at this point), I can announce who I will hide with at night. If I don't die, then who I hid with is confirmed town If I die, (and I mentioned that I planned to use Strong Mode), then whoever I hid with is scum.

Why did you "hide" behind me? So the only down fall if you are weak is if your targeted you will die?

[Jahudo]

unvote

I want to hear her serious post, and I also think we should keep her alive at least another day. The confirms she gives us are valuable if she can later be killed, cleared as town or caught as scum. And there's likely a few ways to test her role.

[Seraphim]

unvote

I want to hear her serious post, and I also think we should keep her alive at least another day. The confirms she gives us are valuable if she can later be killed, cleared as town or caught as scum. And there's likely a few ways to test her role.

Oh? How do you suggest testing her role?

[farside22]

She could hide behind one of 4 people we think are scummy. She dies and they don't boom we have instant scum.
That's if you believe her claim. I'm sitting on the fence on it. She never responded to my post with my reason's either which bothers me as well.

[Seraphim]

Yeah, I don't buy the claim and want her lynched unless there's a definite way to prove her role.

[Jahudo]

Well if you don't think its worth the risk, then the plan its for you.

The test hinges on their being a tracker/watcher role existing that finds out she really targets who she says she does. That still leaves open the possibility of scum RB, so we'd need to know if she targets a power role that is still able to perform their night action.

The other benefit is waiting a few days and having Pom lynched or killed then. If she's town, she's have more results than just farside. It seems like a role scum might want to get rid of themselves, more than leave open to WIFOM.

[Espeonage]

Yeah, I don't buy the claim and want her lynched unless there's a definite way to prove her role.

^This is how I am feeling right now.

[dybeck]

I'm not in a mega-hurry to lynch claimed power roles.

If we get Pom to report results for the next couple of days, and we're still big on lynching her, then we can still do so - but if she flips town, we'll have a couple of other confirmed town.

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

[dybeck]

I did not like Pom #952, it read to me like 'I have just cooked up this superb fakeclaim let me make it'.

This IS a scumtell that is too often overlooked though.

[Faraday]

Is there any harm in having her kept around for a few days/nights?

What if she was to go into strong mode - and we have her hide behind someone. Under the assumption she's not scum the scum can't kill her as her role could be re-directed to one of them. Rit? That's assuming I understand her role correct.

If she's scum she just fakes results for a few days, and we can always lynch her later.

I need to re-read a bit, but is there any obvious flaws in that?

edit before post: Actually any sort of scum roleblocker/director can fuck that up completely, so I'm not so sure.

[dybeck]

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

Actually scratch this suggestion. It doesn't work.

[Pomegranate]

K, rechecked my Role PM.

Weak Mode:
-I die if the person I hide with is targeted with a kill.
-I die if I hide with scum. This therefore confirms farside, because I hid with her last night.
-I die if I'm targeted with a kill.

Strong Mode:
-Same as previously, but I don't die if a kill targets me. I used strong mode last night for fear of vig.

One thing about this role is that I can use it to confirm townies. If I'm let live (which I seriously doubt at this point), I can announce who I will hide with at night. If I don't die, then who I hid with is confirmed town If I die, (and I mentioned that I planned to use Strong Mode), then whoever I hid with is scum.

Why did you "hide" behind me? So the only down fall if you are weak is if your targeted you will die?

I hid behind you because I had a town read on you, and I didn't want to hide with scum.

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

Yes- it even mentions in my Role PM that I can use it to confirm people (but it didn't say so straight out). The one thing is that You will also have to decide whether I hide in weak or strong mode, which

does

make a difference. If I hide with someone in weak mode and die, it;s possible that I was NKed, and not that I hid with scum.

[Pomegranate]

Pom - would you be content with the suggestion of using your night action in accordance with the consensus of the town?

Actually scratch this suggestion. It doesn't work.

Oh. I made my post a bit earlier but didn't have a chance to post it.

[Javert]

I think it is worth testing Pomegranate's role further. Even if we decide to lynch her later, she can give us some good information in the meantime if she actually town. Also, as Jahudo has mentioned, there may be ways to help confirm her role.

If she is scum, it is highly doubtful that leaving her alive for a few days longer will threaten us in any way. If this were a mini game, I would probably just advocate that we lynch her. But seeing as this is a large game, I think we can afford to use some time with her.

I have looked over some of Patrick's other games, and he has in fact used a Hider before at least once (Pick Your Poison 3). So although I am inherently distrustful of Hider claims, I do not think a Hider role is outside the realm of possibility in this game.