Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

NickF227 (3) -- Seraphim, Espeonage, Sando
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- NickF227, curiouskarmadog
Sando (5) -- Amished, Jahudo, dybeck, RichardGHP, Javert
dybeck (1) -- Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (2) -- Faraday, farside22

Not voting: Ojanen, boberz
15 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 16th of May

[curiouskarmadog]

esp is a poor wagon.....the pressure needs to be on ABR or back on Sando if you bastards dont see how scummy ABR is

[Faraday]

Ok. This game is boring.

You could always self vote if ya want.

[farside22]

Farside, how did Sando stick his neck out day 1?

I know he was calling out the people "derailing" the Richard wagon, but I saw that as trying to shift momentum away from the BV wagon. And he still managed to vote BV before deadline. If his suspicions for both were similar, like he claimed, I don't see how he would dedicate his BV vote post to arguing for a Richard lynch.

Esp is just voting along. I didn't like his vote on bv at the time and he's just following a long. I call this the flying under the radar scum tactic.

So do you think he's in a different scum faction than BV? Because I think his vote was early enough and with no signs of leaving to make bussing seem ridiculous. And he had a chance to switch to Richard but didn't.

@Jah: I would call you out for doing the same day 1 with bv310 as Sando if you like.
That said yes I note he voted for bv310 while still talking to richard, but once something seems inevitable don't you think scum may buss more then try to derail close to deadline? That's just my thought process.

As for Esp: It was a lazy bussing vote. I think they are scum together. He hoped on and did nothing more afterward.

[Amished]

esp is a poor wagon.....the pressure needs to be on ABR or back on Sando if you bastards dont see how scummy ABR is

What makes you think esp is town? I don't see that at all.

[curiouskarmadog]

esp is a poor wagon.....the pressure needs to be on ABR or back on Sando if you bastards dont see how scummy ABR is

What makes you think esp is town? I don't see that at all.

where did I say that?

You wouldnt be putting words in my mouth would you?

[Amished]

If esp is a poor wagon, that would imply that you don't think the wagon is on scum, right?

[curiouskarmadog]

no, i think Sando and ABR are scummier..

just because I think X is black, doesnt mean I think Y is white.


Jury is out on Esp in my book.

[Amished]

Soooo, since a lot of people are talking about esp being scum (and their top pick due to a vote for a couple); why not form your own opinion while the game is slow?

[curiouskarmadog]

Soooo, since a lot of people are talking about esp being scum (and their top pick due to a vote for a couple); why not form your own opinion while the game is slow?

this is interesting....

I dont have an opinion of him....or I am neutral...or if you want to put a scummy taint on it...I am on "the fence" about him.

A lot of people think Sando is scum too....you even have your vote on him, but you pick Esp to talk about now...interesting.

I also thought Richard was a poor lynch Day 1...went with my gut and nailed scum...did I think richard was town then either??..no, just that BV was a better lynch.....does that mean that I thought Richard was/is town, no, but I thought BV was scummier...

Since you want to start some conversation..your thoughts on ABR? What about Nick...several people think Nick is scum, why didnt you ask me for my opinion on Nick?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't know what ckd is playing at.

[Amished]

@ABR: Me either.

@ckd: I've said that I thought Nick was town due to other people's interactions with him, ABR I also think is town. If you don't want to give an opinion, just say so but don't try to accuse me of not giving one when not asked for one like you have.

[Espeonage]

Ok my longer explaination.

This game is getting boring. Something exciting needs to happen and then I might be a bit more active. My vote is where I think it should be and I will jump in to the discussion when i actually have something constructive to say.

[Amished]

Fine.

@Esp: What exactly did you agree with Seraphim about with his case on Nick? All of it? Parts? Which parts?

[Espeonage]

I'm happy with the points made. The biggest thing that makes me agree with it is that scum are preoccupied with appearing town. All those points I agree can be seen as scumtells and thus are all the more solid thanks to their, for want of a better word, weirdness. Scum overlook that type of thing in their play. Those kind of slips are better evidence than conventional scumtells imo.

[curiouskarmadog]

@ABR: Me either.

@ckd: I've said that I thought Nick was town due to other people's interactions with him, ABR I also think is town. If you don't want to give an opinion, just say so but don't try to accuse me of not giving one when not asked for one like you have.

what part of "I dont have an opinion", got a "neutral read", "on the fence" or the "jury is still out" do you not understand? I make a statement, you put words in my mouth...I say I dont have an opinion, and then you twist them again, by saying I dont want to give my opinion....

where the fuck did I say I didnt want to give my opinion? I dont have an opinion to give.

what part of ABR's play do you deem town?

[curiouskarmadog]

@ABR: Me either.

@ckd: I've said that I thought Nick was town due to other people's interactions with him, ABR I also think is town. If you don't want to give an opinion, just say so but don't try to accuse me of not giving one when not asked for one like you have.

what part of "I dont have an opinion", got a "neutral read", "on the fence" or the "jury is still out" do you not understand? I make a statement, you put words in my mouth...I say I dont have an opinion, and then you twist them again, by saying I dont want to give my opinion....

where the fuck did I say I didnt want to give my opinion? I dont have an opinion to give.

what part of ABR's play do you deem town?

[curiouskarmadog]

nothing pisses me off more than when people put words in my mouth.

[NickF227]

Alright. A couple of things I've noticed about Nick's play:

1. An obsession with ABR

And, in my opinion and my experience, player's like ABR aren't scum, they're just annoying. They'll probably be killed by a vig first night just so they don't accidentally pick off a useful townie because of a false read. Still, he shouldn't really be listened to because he's just screwing with people for fun.

First, he tries to discredit him and tell people to ignore him based on nothing besides being "annoying".

I think both Richard and Albert are scummy. Albert is just dicking around, making inane posts, either he's scum or just doing it to be a douchebag.

This is pretty...outta left field? I mean, there's Pom's weird claim and then there's...THIS. Just, wtf.

Vote: ABR

Really, people? I think last day's spectacle is enough reasoning

2. A bizarre attack

Saying that farside looks town in one post and then voting for her in the next post is pretty....well, do I really need to explain this? Its self-explanatory.

No, it's not. It's not even based in reality as, mentioned earlier, it never happened.

3. Bizarre and unhelpful play

Any comment on my post, Nick?

tl;dr

Um...lolwut

4. A WIFOM defense...several times

I did give bv's vote the lead and all, and he did turn out to be mafia...soo..... Yeah.....If I was mafia, wouldn't I have waited until people actually jumped off the Richard bandwagon and bv was close to being lynched?

Wouldn't I have hammered or at least voted for Pom if I was scum? And thne just say 'Oops she was so scummy and everyone else was doing it?'

5. a strange roleclaim out of nowhere

I know I'm a villager

6. Setting up ABR's lynch while supporting a Pom lynch

I definitely think here claim is fake, since when do hider's die when they hide? And the weak and strong are basically the exact same thing. I'm not sure if she is actually scum though, she could be a cop who doesn't want to reveal their actual role, since to me she doesn't act too scummy compared to other people.

Alright, this is incredibly wishy-washiness while still looking like he agrees with the town. So, the claim is definitely fake. But she's still town. So go ahead and lynch her, but I'm definitely not on the wagon so don't attack me if she comes up town kthxbai

IMO, ABR is scum if Pom turns up town. He's all tunnel vision about lynching her, and he seems more scummy to me than Pom does.

Nice setup for tomorrow's lynch.

So, what I'm saying is this: Nick's play reeks, especially his opinion on Pom's claim. I can understand not suscribing to LAL but Nick is unable to put out good reasoning for why Pom would lie as town. Wouldn't a claim like cop or something keep her alive longer, rather than a common scum claim like hider? I think that Nick was trying to escape being on the wagon while still agreeing with the majority of the town.

1-3 is dumb, 4 isn't WiFOM, its a legitimate question.....5 was an alignment claim? Whatever, and 6...wtf, I'm a prophet now? Awesome! <3

[Ojanen]

I couldn't post yesterday, exhausted, but working on reading and rereading things right now.

Nick, as in above post, you dicking around isn't cute or funny.
I've changed my opinion since the start of yesterday. I currently think you are somehat more likely town than not. You're upping your chances of getting eventually semi-policy lynched every time you are deliberately unhelpful.

[Amished]

then form a goddamn opinion to give. Jesus H. Christ.

[Seraphim]

4 is WIFOM and if you're saying it isn't, you have no clue what you're talking about.

I already said 5 was invalid earlier.

1 may not be a legitimate scumtell but you seem to be tunneling almost exclusively on him.

2 isn't dumb...you tried to attack a player based on absolutely nothing. Same with 3, the dicking around is not helpful.

Nick, who else besides ABR is scum? Why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Sando

I've reviewed his posts and I simply don't like the duality of his position regarding Pom. He's trying to get her lynched while at the same time saying that it's better to keep her alive.

[Javert]

1.)

Sando, I do not think you have adequately addressed my point against you, although you claim that you have. On Day One, you complained that

both

the RichardGHP wagon was being derailed and the bv310 wagon was being derailed. You said that we should lynch RichardGHP for the “information” we would get, yet you

did not

make that same push against bv310.

Rather than making a push against bv310, you voted for dybeck, the person you were accusing of “derailing” the bv310 wagon. But if you thought dybeck was trying to defend a partner, then you should have voted for bv310, not dybeck.

2.)

I am not really liking

either

side of the Amished v curiouskarmadog debate. curiouskarmadog is far too quick to take offense, and I cannot really tell if it is genuine or just false indignation. Amished is striking me as too demanding in trying to get a firm opinion. I think it is wiser to accept that players cannot always give an opinion one way or the other on certain players – you cannot just force somebody to have an opinion.

3.)

Ojanen and boberz, why aren't you voting for somebody?

[Ojanen]

Javert, I'm not voting anybody because my mafia commitments got screwed with a semi-unexpected traveling V/LA this whole week. I'm starting to think my activity will just necessarily have gaps and highs in my current life situation, access is just unpredictable when I travel a lot.

I'm home now though and this is my only current game. I've been reading stuff today whenever I've had a moment and I'll post what thoughts I have tonight, if not on everything, at least a start.

I feel inclined to do a readlist. I'm trying to get back into the game and maybe some of it will at least give some transparency.

Solid town:
farside
Jahudo
Javert (I'm slightly debating if it isn't just a crush on his posting style but nah, I'll go for Occam and town at this stage)

Quite town:
Seraphim

Maybe town:
Nick (hate his play, but his off-hand villager claim doesn't feel like it's from scum)
Esp (hate his play, but the bv vote doesn't feel like bussing to me)
Faraday
ABR

? (in no specific order)
boberz
Sando
ckd
Amished
dybeck
richard (trying to check the voting patterns on d1 to whether 2 scum run up is plausible)

Yeah, I'm a PoEer at heart.
Bad gut especially about ckd and Amished.
Felt weird about the fact that ckd's and Sando's spat at the and of yesterday almost felt like bussing to me, due to it being in a stage where another lynch was seeming extremely likely and it seemed to me ckd's attack was insincerely reasoned. Then today Sando was only secondary suspect of ckd's and Sando didn't find ckd that scummy anymore.
It could be though that I'm paranoid about ckd and bussing because I was in a game for which his scumteam won a scummy for with mighty crossdistancing regulated through daytalking to be not quite too dangerous (Advertizing mafia).

Looking at voting patterns currently.