Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[LlamaFluff]

##vote farside

Finals late this week spilling over into early next week. Dont expect much from me untill after that.

[LlamaFluff]

Just based on meta, I'd say that UncertainKitten couldn't resist taking scum or other.

Nope, meta says UK and DGB are town.

[LlamaFluff]

/wagon

##unvote
##Vote xvart

post 101 is so... reachy/ignorant

Also Parama is town for the people who havent figured it out.

[LlamaFluff]

@Elli and Llama, your position that parama is too scummy to be scum?

Nope

He just doesnt read as scummy. That on top of his stance on meta being pretty identical to town him in a recent game, im going to go say he is fairly safe town at this point. His opening post is the only reason I dont have him as definantly town.

@UK - VI isnt scummy, just frustrating. Parama just needs to have someone direct him to a target.
@VPB - Im going to say there is almost zero chance UK is mafia, other is unlikely as well, due to past experience. DGB is town too for the same reason.

[LlamaFluff]

@VPB - I played a game where everyone starts as town then can change to scum if they want, DBG and UK were in that game with me and stayed town. Thats weighing heavily.

[LlamaFluff]

Parama's contradiction in like his first three posts is suspect. Not sure if he's town or scum yet.

Parama is town

Also charter is probably town, should know for sure by page 20

[LlamaFluff]

Seriously people, xvart wagon. Guy is scum. Look at some of this stuff

I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.

Why would you lead your case on gut, then follow with shallow logic? Wouldn't you want to lead with your most credible evidence (i.e. shallow posts) and then follow up with the less substantiated personal feelings of his posts?

Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of points

DGB from one the QT of ours ->

I have to agree... another SlySly... watch out if he seems townie!

^^^About reading Para.

I think he's town.

Wait... what? Did I miss something? You have a QT? When did town aligned peeps get QTs??

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

A guess based on my role PM.

I don't see a town aligned person getting a role pm that gives an indication of town population makeup.

I think any town aligned player can make a guess at anti-town numbers

This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware and

quote

their mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.

So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.

Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.

This guy is grasping at any available straw, and trying to turn anything he can find into a case at this point. We need a wagon going here. His vote seems to be in the wrong place, his reasons for suspicions all seem to ignore simple answers, nothing here reads like town trying to make a case.

[LlamaFluff]

Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of points

I'm not trying to call him scum based on that, at all. I've already called him scum.

His post reads like his defense is all gut, with an afterthought to the shallow logic.

That is not even close the defining scum characteristic.

So then he was scummy for the ordering, sound like if it was the other way around it would have been a null factor.

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.

You are ignoring the simplest answer still. It was a QT from a past game hydra. Are you honestly trying to argue that Eli tried to prove a point by quoting the scum QT in such a way that it could not have been accidental? They arent masons, they arent scum, they ARE both town. Let it go, you are wrong.

Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.

As much as it appears to me that you are trying to undermine my priorities and voting behavior I believe I have been pretty clear. Parama is scum (hence the vote) and Elli and DGB is suspicious (hence the Finger of

Suspicion

).

So its not a slip then? If you think they slipped, I would belive that you would be voting that over a read. Your choice of suspicions make no sense, apart from just trying to get the easier lynch through.

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.

And speculation in any other game is completely different from speculation in this game, where people got to select what faction they wanted to be on. Anyone who says there are 6 scum in the game and 4 other sided (in a game where people picked their side), then says it is a "guess" based on role PM clearly has at least a little more information than an uninformed minority.

Please... read between the lines. I looked at my role and immediately speculated on how many town players there are, and likely how many scum/other exist. How could speculating in this setup possibly be a tell?

@charter - He is stuck a little too hard on Parama lynch for my liking, but its nowhere near enough to vote him.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, for his over-the-top defense of Parama, like when he was defending Parama's guesses at anti-town factions. I'm willing to accept that Parama was joking because Parama does stuff like this, but Llama takes it to a whole different level by saying "anyone can make guesses! Guesses aren't scummy! I'm really on Parama's side here!"

Yeah im going to defend my town reads hardcore. Especially against really bad points. Lets try you. Why is guessing scummy?

@ Llama: What do you think of UK and Zorblag?

Obviously town and slightly scummy.

I see what DGB is talking about at apparently meta backs this up (?). Never have played with him so I have nothing good to base it off of. Either way, xvart wagon is far better than zorblag wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

After I make dinner, I plan to drink an entire bottle of wine while catching up in this game. Prepare for words children.

You only need two words (and a ##). Those are "xvart" and "vote"

@farside - Would you prefer a Phate or xvart lynch right now?

[LlamaFluff]

I voted Balter first, then saw you had more votes so I switched on to you. I think you're both scum, but I'm more sure of Balter.

So you are now voting for the person you think is scum but less sure is scum? Why?

This is actually somewhat along the lines of charter-town play.

Lets assume for a minute that we arent going to lynch Parama, who is your next best lynch and why?

@VPB - Yeah that game is the biggest reason I have UK-town. Some people really hate being anti-town, that game, and past experience with UK says thats she is one of them.

[LlamaFluff]

@xvart - Ignoring 173 doesnt make the case on you go away.

I would rather lynch xvart today and just point someone with a gun at phate tonight. Never have been a big fan of lurker lynches though when situations arent desperate.

Also RC is probably scum

[LlamaFluff]

So then he was scummy for the ordering, sound like if it was the other way around it would have been a null factor.

I read his post that his case was based on how his gut feeling on every post was off, then an afterthought of shallow logic. That's how it reads to me. When I build a case I start with the concrete and then would follow with "oh, and every post he makes I do not like."

So ordering was scummy?

You are ignoring the simplest answer still. It was a QT from a past game hydra. Are you honestly trying to argue that Eli tried to prove a point by quoting the scum QT in such a way that it could not have been accidental? They arent masons, they arent scum, they ARE both town. Let it go, you are wrong.

Yes, I was; although it was not because I was ignoring it.

Good, so you are going to join the DGB and Eli are town camp I guess?

Please... read between the lines. I looked at my role and immediately speculated on how many town players there are, and likely how many scum/other exist. How could speculating in this setup possibly be a tell?

And how definite was your speculation?

Kinda specific. I would say 4/5 scum and 5/6 other. There are ways town can speculate on numbers though. If you are a cop that gets to investigate as many people as they want in a row untill they find two people that do not share alignments, you can make a guess that there is a lot of anti-town. If you are a hated-miller-gravedigger-voteless townie, you can assume there arent a lot of scum.

This is actually somewhat along the lines of charter-town play.

Good to know. Thanks for answering for him.

Saying I have a town read on him for saying something isnt answering for him.

[LlamaFluff]

Hey RC, do you have any scum reads that arent one of the top five picks for the town?

[LlamaFluff]

Hey RC, do you have any scum reads that arent one of the top five picks for the town?

Top five picks for scum or for town?

Scum obviously unless you have a town read on a player getting wagoned.

I gave a list in my previous post, and I'd say it was a pretty good range of players. xvart, Jack, farside, Gamma, and any of the lurkers (including Phate, Cobalt, pops, Jazzmyn, SttB) would be acceptable lynches for me at this point (I had VP/Parama on there as well, but I've been liking their more recent posts).

There's a lot of scum in that group, no doubt.

Well Jack, xvart are populars. What is your reasoning on farside? All I can see is what happened due to '##' voting. What about gamma? All I have seen you say on him is "posts are worded poorly".

Saying "the lurkers" (although you missed a few, was this intentional?) is also a cop out. Which lurkers are scummier than other lurkers?

What about VP/Parama? Are they neurtal? Town? Just less of scum reads?

[LlamaFluff]

Withing Phate's 7 votes, there is undoubtedly at least one scum. Regardless of Phate's alignment.

If he's other... well it depends if "other" is a group thing, or individual thing.

So. What about pops.

Only one? I would say at least three. Wagon for the most part is all my neutral-slight scum reads.

Whats your opinion on RC?

[LlamaFluff]

I said AT LEAST one scum. RC is still neutral. Why are you interested in him in particular?

You gotta be aggressive with your "at leasts" makes people pay more attention to them.

RC because im almost at the point where im ready to lynch him. Depending on how a couple things go that point may be as early as tomorrow.

[LlamaFluff]

Cool, phate is also town.

The following should be lynched sometime soon: xvart, RC, d3x and pops. Gamma may be added to this list dependingon what jack has to say.

@d3x - Can I get your top few scum reads with reasoning?
@RC - What are the timelines of your farside and Parama suspicions? Are the Jack/Gamma suspicions mostly signal to noise things? You seem to continually fall back to things like that about them.

[LlamaFluff]

@gamma - Jazz isnt posting anywhere on site. Im much more willing to chalk this one up to irl busyness than tactical lurking. Why Jazz over other lurkers though? Just seeing Jazz-scum lurk once?

@Jack - Your move over QT thing.

Point on fishy isnt bad at all, but there are two other questionable reads to me on that wagon (nico, VPB). I would put a big bet on at least one of the three being anti-town, just not sure enough as to which to start following that path.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama-It's the only game I've played with Jazz so that has a big part of it, I already listed pops and Cobalt, Shotty said he'd post sometime today, and d3x doesn't seem to be lurking anymore, which other lurkers are you referring to exactly?

Trying to see what distinguished jazz from them.

@parama - That actually was a slight town tell from VPB, or at least a non-third party tell.

[LlamaFluff]

Hey cool, Jazz is replaced. Gamma can scumhunt now without

distractions

.....

excuses

... having to worry about lurkers.... yeah that will work.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama, charter, Parama:

You paid lip service to this wagon (and in Parama's case voted). Do you share the conviction that EVERY SINGLE ONE of
Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar
is town? Do you think that an 8 person wagon is significantly more likely to contain scum than a random group of 8 people?

(excluding myself) Yes, Very likely, maybe, Yes, Yes, Probably (although if anything is other)

Also yes, a group of 8 people who are making a non-random vote (or any action really) on a single wagon is slightly more likely to have scum. Almost neglegable, but it is going to be different.

[LlamaFluff]

Last post should have read "if anything not other" for VPB/Plum

[LlamaFluff]

All you lucky talking about AP tests... those you didnt need to study for (had Calc, Physics, Statistics and Biology with 3s and 4s on them). Will trade retaking those for college finals any day.

Is xvart near prod range yet?
Is Jack claiming a QT?

[LlamaFluff]

@UK - This

What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?

To this hypothetical scenario, I would say that we are in fact not neighbors.

[LlamaFluff]

Thus game is perfect for UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCES but I don't see one's suggested. If Spy's stuck modding/setting up for this game I guess I'll have to do it myself.

Me, UK, DGB, Eli, Parama +- DDD, VPPlum, Ojanen would be my personal starting point.

[LlamaFluff]

Oh yeah, and +- Phate and charter.

Also if that dayvig is real... thats awesome

[LlamaFluff]

Sounds more like a scum reaction to me. The 2nd post where he accused DGB of being scum just sounds like he's trying to emphasize that he really believed the kill.

##unvote
##vote:popsofctown

Maybe scumbuddies with DGB, although everyone keeps yammering about DGB being obvtown like she couldn't play like this as scum.

Why do my slight town reads fight SO HARD to lose that status?

Jack is probably town though, if nothing else due to the fact that I would happy with a dead entire Jack wagon.

Pops gets some town points, DGB gets even more town points, farside loses a few by ignoring the more important reaction just to throw a punch at Jack (but she is attacking RC which is awesome).

Hmmph... have a final tomorrow im going to study and retire for and im playing another two SCOOP events so thats going to (hopefully) eat up the entire day, even though they are my two weakest events im playing so they probably wont.

[LlamaFluff]

Why do my slight town reads fight SO HARD to lose that status?

[LlamaFluff]

Very few answered the question sadly. I don't think you have either.

If he scumslipped credibly, we're going to lynch him. I assumed your "question" was a rhetorical one.

Actually if Jack just claims he has a QT with him we are lynching him. IIRC gamma already called BS on one existing.

[LlamaFluff]

Got it

Did RC just post a giant quote wall in which he complained about short posts creating too much noise? Yes. At least he sees gamma as scummy.

What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?

To this hypothetical scenario, I would say that we are in fact not neighbors

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah thats the conclusion ive come to. Now im just trying to figure out if xvart or RC should die first

[LlamaFluff]

DGB and Jack are engaged in discussing semantics. Neighbours is just unconfirmed alignment masons.

Now please contribute content.

Hyprocritical from someone who I have no idea where they stand on anything.

Thoughts on... fake daykill, xvart, fishy-scum logic, unbreakable alliance, RC and jack. Next post too if you do

[LlamaFluff]

Thoughts on... fake daykill, xvart, fishy-scum logic, unbreakable alliance, RC and jack. Next post too if you do

Had it used on me in another <ongoing> game, useful tool, when used right, but subject to wifom (what isn't). Don't quite see it. Don't quite see/understand it. Dislike the pair of them, possible bussing.

More detail

[LlamaFluff]

Pops is full of Wifom.

A claimed VT with lots of suspicion not getting shot why?

Because other people need to be shot, one of which may be you. Jury is out on that.

[LlamaFluff]

Pops is full of Wifom.

A claimed VT with lots of suspicion not getting shot why?

Because other people need to be shot, one of which may be you. Jury is out on that.

Jury is in, you are on the list.

[LlamaFluff]

Nightless games are infinitely superior.

##vote:pops

pops is town, at super worst pops is not the same alignment of xvart

try again. I reccomend RC or chrono

[LlamaFluff]

##Vote Fishy

Also lets not quicklynch too fast.

[LlamaFluff]

Is this an "I got a guilty result on him" kind of "fishy isn't town"? "Non-hostile other" would be not town you know. Be more specific.

*sigh*

Do I really need to give the "things like survivors are not town aligned so you lynch them" speech here?

[LlamaFluff]

Hmm... Chrono is not Voting Fishy, thus she did not get a Scum result in whatever investigation. I'll withhold my Fishy Vote for the moment.

What votecount are you looking at?

[LlamaFluff]

There is also one more thing I want to take care of before the day ends, it shouldnt take more than 24 real life hours, but I really want to look into it before the day ends. So please no quicklynch.

[LlamaFluff]

Is this an "I got a guilty result on him" kind of "fishy isn't town"? "Non-hostile other" would be not town you know. Be more specific.

*sigh*

Do I really need to give the "things like survivors are not town aligned so you lynch them" speech here?

I can't see me being enthused about a survivor lynch

Yes

Ok...

all neutral roles are not aligned with the town, and will not play with the best interest of the town in mind. This is especially true if they have what they view as a win opportunity. A survivor will claim and vote with scum near the end of the game, jester will claim and just ask to be lynched by scum. No good comes from leaving a neutral player alive. They arent going to scumhunt, they arent going to ever help the town, they are just an anti-town role with no kill. So you lynch them.

[LlamaFluff]

You know what? No, I'm not going to do this. I didn't like Cobalt, and I don't really see how Chrono has been much of an improvement.

Cobalt was complete null read, and I agree that chrono was scum read, untill he heavily breadcrumbed a non-town result on fishy. Then he became town.

Jack might be an ok person to direct a kill towards at night, almost just because I dont trust him not to do something foolish, but im not for lynching him right now.

Remember

1) No quicklynch (24 hours needed)
2) Chrono needs to post again before day ends
3) We may as well have a fishy post too

[LlamaFluff]

I believe farside knows fishy targeted RC.

I am not ready to lynch fishy. There are now two things I need to accomplish before the day ends.

@fishy - Who, if anyone, did you target last night?

##unvote

[LlamaFluff]

I've been seriously mulling this over. I haven't felt good about farside at all, but I know for sure that I was roleblocked last night. It doesn't help that the website is not running very smoothly for me right now.

Fishy, who did you target yesterday if it wasn't me?

##Unvote

Ugh. It's a total shot to my pride if Fishy is my Roleblocker and farside is the one who uncovered this. Screw it; go big or go home.

##Vote: Fishythefish

(Unofficially, this puts Fishy at L-1)

Well offically take him off L-1. Im very very serious. If anyone lynches today before I am ready I will do my best to get a gun pointed at them.

Although oddly enough im thinking there is a far less chance RC is scum than before, other is an option but im doubting scum.

[LlamaFluff]

Well offically take him off L-1. Im very very serious. If anyone lynches today before I am ready I will do my best to get a gun pointed at them.

Better state clear objectives.

Townies don't suffer non-townies to live.

I need one thing im watching to resolve today, hopefully a second. Both of them are going to be far more benificial if they get done before a lynch as opposed to twilight.

[LlamaFluff]

*world smallest violin plays for Fish who has yet to explain my track results.*

Please read DGB sig as to what I expect Fishy is stalling for at this point but if people want to wait don't expect me to change my vote.

Im not asking for you to lynch someone else, im asking for you to unvote. I have my reasons for wanting to wait a bit. People who have played with me know that I dont pull stuff like this with no basis, there are at least two very specific things that need to occur before we lynch. Neither of them has.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok everything is done.

No more quicklynch fear from me

[LlamaFluff]

Giving Fishy time IS BAD. You know he isn't town, what if he needs 24 hours in order to do something to help his scumbuddies? Seriously, all you're doing by giving him time is allowing the opportunity for something destructive to happen.

fishy is going to be third party, not scum. Money says he is exactly what he claims to be.

Im not going to vote him for ~48 hours. His information will be useful

[LlamaFluff]

I doubt Fishy is lying after reviewing his claim.

Yep. Even the RB makes sense if you think about it from a bus varient. Fishy targets townie X with "pro town action". Mafia targets townie X with roleblock. driver targets townie X and RC (decent ammount read as scummy). RC gets visitors, farside sees fishy target RC and RC gets roleblocked.

Seriously people, let fishy deliver what he says he has coming. We lynch him after that, or after he takes too much time.

Unvote now, please

[LlamaFluff]

No. Fishy dies now.

Today, yes. Now, no.

[LlamaFluff]

Seriously people, let fishy deliver what he says he has coming.

That's your so-called "plan?"

I already accomplished my plan. Think of this as a bonus mission.

[LlamaFluff]

Do you really know that Fishythefish isn't town because you're in a non-town faction with him perhaps? I'm not sure why you'd out him like you did but at least it would fit the rest of your behavior better.

Stop trying to throw dirt on the town alignment cop

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff, are you saying that you think the answers he gave (or, rather failed to give as he still hasn't said why he didn't vote for Fishythefish) strike you as true? I don't think I'm willing to accept that just yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I buy it. He wasnt in serious danger of being lynched unless he thought I was a cop with a guilty. Even if he was convinced that fishy wasnt town, thats not a move scum will take.

The play reads complete newbie-PR.

Also if fishy is telling the truth (which I still am super sure he is) chrono cant be scum with him. This leaves it being a guess or an anti-town rolecop. No reason for anti-town to claim kill magnet role, so he is regular town.

What do you think he is any why?

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff, do me a favor and let me know what you think the chances of farside22 and RedCoyote being on a non-town faction together are. I've just had paranoia kick in.

Pretty low. Either way neither of them are lying about what happened during the night.

[LlamaFluff]

Fishy and all his undersea friends do not require townies to die, even if he lied and his point conditions give him bonus points for lynching townies.

But... but thats motivation to lynch townies...

I'm gonna apply some super Bayes' theorem (aka watching for people moving towards their actual wincon) and say that everyone on Fishy's wagon is super scummy.

Actually im just going to say its just a high ammount of "other" on his wagon. Especially if there is a 'other v other v other' subgame going on here.

[LlamaFluff]

fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag

Eliminating obviously town....

d3x, farside, RC, DDD, SC, GG, Troll

Eliminating prob tow...

d3x, RC (?), Troll

calculating....

##Vote: d3x
FoS: Troll

Im not voting fishy today. I am, beyond a shadow of a doubt, sure that he is what he has already claimed. Actions match up with driver, and what he is claiming matches up with the "non hostle" flip we have already seen. I believe he is "basically town" as well.

[LlamaFluff]

Listen up people. He didn't say he did anything last night. That is withholding information. That is not town.
He went to Red Coyote and even if that is not his intended target he still did something last night that he is not telling people.
HOW IS THIS TOWN?

I did visit someone last night

. I doubt I'm going to claim who, because I've no intention of giving away what that action is. It's a protown action, but frankly my points rivals already know plenty about me.

[LlamaFluff]

Still, im not voting him. Will be floored if he flips anything but non-hostle other

[LlamaFluff]

Do you think Llama that scum fish got bus driven somewhere.

Absolutely (if you change scum-fish to other-fish). Look at what claims we have

Fishy says he targeted player X with pro-town action
RC was targeted by fishy
RC was targeted by a roleblock

I would expect player X to get targeted by a scum roleblock. I can see player X to getting bussed with RC. Anti-town, especially other, has to be all over this wagon.

d3x is probably one of them

[LlamaFluff]

DGB, I agree with you on Zorblag in general. I could dissect up a case, but the direct poking at Chronopie is something recent which rubbed me very wrong.

##Vote: Zorblag

. I'd endorse this wagon.

This also works

##unvote
##Vote Zorblag

[LlamaFluff]

What do you think he [chrono alignment] is any why?

@LlamaFluff, I'm still trying to work out what I think of Chronopie which is why I'm asking the questions and applying some pressure. I've had very little experience as a power role myself. I think that I've gotten a total of one PM saying what my results are from the night in all my games here but I know that was the first thing that I was interested in when that game day started. I have trouble believing that someone expecting such a PM wouldn't be checking that as soon as possible.

I'm also not quite sure what a motive cop is, but we've had one of those from the town already and it seems pretty similar to what Chronopie would be claiming to be. I'm not overly sure that I think that town should have too many more investigative roles. If we're willing to believe that farside22 is some sort of town tracker (and I think she's more likely to be town than Chronopie is at this point) then that's getting to be quite a few out already.

Is there a final conclusion from this yet? Last you have said is "He didnt pick up his result quickly" and "This game seems to have a lot of PRs". So what alignment is chrono?

[LlamaFluff]

Literally half of farside's posts are solely about how fishy should be lynched. She has said nothing else today.

Nope I'm being stubborn and childish.
I believe he is lying scum deal with it.

At least answer me this.

Why would a scum RB not target a softclaimed PR or regarded town player over someone that is a lynch prospect? That is what is making me think driver and fishy targeted some pro-town looking player, along with the scum RB.

[LlamaFluff]

and that's a False Dichotomy, non-hostiles aren't with or against either side. OTOH Hostiles are against everyone.

In this post we learn that Chronopie is an OTHER.

I dont think so... him claiming like he did today was really stupid if he is and I have to think he would run by a fake(?) result with partners who would

laugh at him

discourage him from doing so.

on the other hand, im betting if this is a 2-2-2 non-hostle, you can find two of them on this wagon

fishythefish ( 5 ) farside22 charter Debonair Danny DiPietro Zorblag Chronopie

I think that would be farside and one of DDD/charter. I had a strong town read on charter, but he is playing most like what I would expect non-fishy other to be playing. Farside gut has been going crazy on all game but I for the life of me cant find anything to back it up. DDD.... ehhh... I just dont have a super strong town read on him. I want to say he is town but something is causing me to think hard about it, and I can see him being non-hostle other as the reason behind that.

I also have one more request (yes im being needy today). Can someone make sure im around about at the time a hammer is thrown down? One more thing showed up that I want to do, but it wont be horribly devistating if I cant.

[LlamaFluff]

and that's a False Dichotomy, non-hostiles aren't with or against either side. OTOH Hostiles are against everyone.

In this post we learn that Chronopie is an OTHER.

Sorry for duplicate, I refreshed the wrong screen.

I would actually like to hear some elaboration on this, even though I dont think it will change too much for me.

I just can not see chrono pulling what he did today as anti-town

[LlamaFluff]

fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag

Eliminating obviously town....

d3x, farside, RC, DDD, SC, GG, Troll

Eliminating prob tow...

d3x, RC

(?)

, Troll

Glad RC was able to clear up whether or not that question mark was needed so quickly. Fishy wagon wreaks of others with a dash of mafia.

[LlamaFluff]

fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag

Fishy wagon wreaks of others with a dash of mafia.

I think you mean "reeks of others."

Awesome wordsmith I am not. Engineering student I am being.

Although I basically agree with all of your list, with the exception of changing RC and SC.

~~~

When (1) he got a non town results from a claimed cop (2) hid information about doing anything last night to the point the tracked came out and called him on it (3) is still hiding information that most likely has to do with his faction win condition then the town win condition.

1) Correct. He is "other", more specifically, non-hostle other.
2) This does not change point 1. Also if he has a secondary slightly pro-town ability, he shouldnt reveal it yet. Later in the game he should.
3) He is competing with other 'others'. The more he shows to his rivals, the less his win chances. This actually backs up that he is 'other' and not mafia even more to me.

Please get this... he is other, not mafia. It makes perfect sense if RC got driven with someone who looks town. RC got targeted by a RB, RC got targeted by fishy (who claims to have targeted other with a pro-town action). All of this just says there is a driver here to me, and while roles claiming today were probably correct, especially chrono, it says that fishy isnt our lynch. Troll is (or maybe d3x, or mayyyybe Nico). All three of them should be dead by end of D3 though.

[LlamaFluff]

We can begin by lynching Troll.

Then we can vig Nico.

It's very simple, kids.

Jack, StrangerCoug, imaginality, pops, d3x, Phate, Nico >>> unproductive voters.

GET ON WITH THE BIZNIS

Meh... Phate is prob town, SC too. That list needs more RC.

@farside - I understand what you are saying. Do you at least get where I am coming from with my arguements?

[LlamaFluff]

I didn't say Phate was scum, I listed his name as someone whose vote is unproductive. That's a list of people that need to change their votes and commit to the leaders in that 3-horse race we're having.

This kind of vote movement is especially informative to help catch scum in mid-game.

I agree with that, I thought you were calling that whole list scum so was kind of worried about what was going on with your reads.

@UK - SK lynch is better than scum lynch, unless its lylo, which it isnt. That and SC is probably town.

[LlamaFluff]

Im starting to grow weary of this day.

Zorblag, d3x, nico, jack and probably RC need to get killed off ASAP. There are a few other maybes on this list, but they dont need to die quite yet.

Im just about in agreement with the Elli list

[LlamaFluff]

Sill, its just not as good of a wagon as Troll wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

Why must policy lynches either always get confirmed town roles or replace into town read spots? Why cant they replace into scummy player slot?

@ani - We are talking about Nico, not Zorblag

[LlamaFluff]

Time for you to check into rehab, kid.

You need to label better.

labeling was fine. Someone elses comprehension was off

[LlamaFluff]

Beats the bullet being soaked up in a townie's blood-splattered chest, no?

That means the SK's kill still goes through...

The players in this game have been rendered INSANE by their WINCON.

Normally that wouldnt be a problem but there seems to be a hesitancy to reward that insanity with rope or bullets. That should be fixed

[LlamaFluff]

Fixed.

Cool. Now be useful.

[LlamaFluff]

@RC - What is your opinion on Jack?

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff, could you do me a favor and recap why you think I'm the best lynch of the day at this point? Perhaps if others see your case those that haven't decided one way or another will be persuaded. I think that my reaction to Chronopie is a (big?) part of it but I'd love to see a quick summary of exactly what I've done that makes me worse than people who have been hanging out on the sidelines for the most part.

Yeah thats a big part. Other things that strike me are

-The fact that it took you up to iso-9 to make a vote, especially when it was obvious that you had concrete opinions before that point.
-iso 13 was a big one in my notes of posts that make me feel uncomfortable. The way you ask a player of athority "is this town being smart of scum bussing" ends up with "phate is scum" both ways.
-wanting fishy lynched (I consider that a scumtell)
-continues to only pay attention to fishy
-more stuff later

Why havent you claimed?

[LlamaFluff]

Oh yeah, if we no lynch... stuff will be unplesant... lets not let that happen

[LlamaFluff]

Anyone notice that everyone throwing away thier vote except charter (and maybe pops) need to die?

[LlamaFluff]

##unvote
##vote Nico

[LlamaFluff]

I know that the claim is almost definitely true.

Now, is he SK, or is he neutral vig? That is the question. In any event, as long as Troll is alive, we can't expect government claims, hey?

Simply solved. We have him kill fishy tomorrow. A living fishy means a lynched troll.

[LlamaFluff]

thats why he is day vigging you tomorrow under penalty of death for non compliance

[LlamaFluff]

Im confused as to if fishy is scrambling for his life (since Troll telling the truth results in his death if he survives) or really doesnt believe the claim, or some mix of each.

Either way SC is almost certaintly not-other. I really hope I dont have to explain that read.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama:
I'm sure my judgement is to some extent clouded by the fact that, one way or another, he's almost certainly going to put a bullet through my head in the next 24 RL hours - but do you not think it's at least very surprising that Troll would shoot at pops in the position he was in this morning? He seems to say that my wagon was going when he sent in the kill - surely anyone in that position would wait for my claim, knowing that he needed to shoot at non-hostile other?

Its not the way I would have played it, but its a perfectly proveable role. I ask you one last thing though, is it at all possible for a point gathering group to have a killing ability? If its true there is something that can benifit town and should get point gatherers quite a few points.

[LlamaFluff]

I really am getting just pulled all over the place by outguessing the mod stuff right now. If my guess is right, there are a few things that should be done that are awesomely awesome. If my guess is wrong... well im going to look really stupid.

[LlamaFluff]

how "government" is gov? We had parama flip something affiliated with a school which technically is gov funded. Would anything along those lines count?

[LlamaFluff]

Happy enough with my play, although I really wish SC-UK had managed to decode my redirections I posted in the QT (which I did post before I died, just about 20 minutes beforehand).

I basically IDed all the other as scum, and then half the mafia as town and the other half as scum. Wish I would have stayed on RC more after his softclaim though, my attempt to vig him failed, and I really wish I would have killed him the second night instead of Jack. That would of been a game changer.

I also almost redirected N1 DGB to gamma in an attempt to kill as many players as possible. Just never had the guts to because I figured it would kill at least one doctor and maybe a watcher.

Almost redirected to gamma N2 as well.

Dang

Also way more people picked scum than I expected, was thinking it would be ultra-powerful 3 man team or something. Mass sniping hurt town a whole lot, removed six from the game flat out. Made it a 11-5-1... ugh.