Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Parama]

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

##vote: Gammagooey

because I didn't know you were on MS

[Parama]

##unvote

##vote: Ojanen

That was easy.

[Parama]

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

Woah. Talk about the biggest load of WIFOM right out of the gate.

##Vote: Parama

xvart.

It's WIFOM but it's the truth.

[Parama]

Oj's 2nd question = implying she's town while looking for the most likely townies based on responses, hence why I'm not answering the questions

[Parama]

It'll be interesting to see how the non-hostile "cult" thing works out, I kinda wish I'd picked that.

Wondering where you got the idea that a cult is "non-hostile" considering that a cult that doesn't prevent town from winning might as well be a mason group with a recruiter.
I'd say that non-hostile implies stuff like lynchers, jesters, survivors etc.

[Parama]

Oj's 2nd question = implying she's town while looking for the most likely townies based on responses, hence why I'm not answering the questions

##unvote
##vote:parama

What did you say in your first post?

I'm letting everyone take what they will from it. Everyone's allowed to make their own assumptions based on it.
You assumed I meant town, so voting for me because of that same line is a contraction, by the way. Unless you don't think I was implying I'm town.

[Parama]

How is it a contraction?

Contradiction, but I'm a terrible typist.

Parama sure spends a lot of time talking while saying nothing.

Welcome to RVS!

So, which alignment do you guys personally prefer and why did you choose town?

I felt I had no chance of playing scum successfully against this player list.

##Vote: Jack

Really? You saw the player list before picking alignment?

The only reason I /in'ed this game was because the player list looked awesome <_<

@Jack: Why would you

waste a post

pointing out something as obvious as that? Further, you don't even answer why you assumed other was cult...

Are you asking if I have a post restriction?

^this is a waste of a post^

I should've figured people would be using meta arguments in this game. I'm going to break tradition and not use meta at all because scumhunting is more successful when you focus on just the game at hand.

List of people who have already used a meta argument and the number of times:
DGB - 1
VP Baltar - about 100
DDD - 1
UK - 1
farside - 2
Llama - 2

I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.

##unvote
##vote: VP Baltar

If I were to use a meta argument to point out scum I would point at Jack but that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Parama]

Hey Parama, this was sufficiently terrible that "it was RVS" isn't enough to address it for me, please answer:

Oj's 2nd question = implying she's town while looking for the most likely townies based on responses, hence why I'm not answering the questions

Lolwut?
My question assumed noone would wanna claim scum or other at this point. I'm town but where in my post did I imply that?
Do you think it's somehow bad to possibly uncover other-aligned people at this stage or what the hell is your objection based on?

I know everyone would answer town but you're looking for the most sincere responses so you can figure out who's lying and who's not. Is that a better explanation?
And right now I don't care as much about your question because nothing else you've done bothers me like VP is bothering me.

Feel free to list the hundred meta arguments I've used. Also, give a detailed explanation of how any of those make me more likely to be scum.

1. Exaggeration is fun
2. I never said the use of meta arguments made you scum:

I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.

Stop misrepping me please, it's just another point to add on the rapidly building case <3

so in regards to post 64.

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

##vote: Gammagooey

because I didn't know you were on MS

Saying people who understand your play (aka meta) but anyone using meta is scummy?
Let me know if I missed something in my scum read of you then.

It's more my personality than anything - has nothing to do with my meta - the meta that I don't think exists.

[Parama]

I love you guys so much <3

[Parama]

I didn't bring up my own meta.
I didn't explicitly state that I thought VP was scum because of use of meta - my reasons sat next to my vote.
I didn't see anything good in any of VP's posts.
I think I've caught scum already and now VP's buddies want to push a lynch on me because of it.
Just my opinion.

[Parama]

Yeah I'm just not going to bother at this point since I am apparently the most unconvincing person ever.

[Parama]

Paraphrasing VP Baltar
By Parama

Parama sure spends a lot of time talking while saying nothing.

"Don't mind the fact that the post following this opening doesn't really say anything either."

Just based on meta, I'd say that UncertainKitten couldn't resist taking scum or other. I'd also lynch Zorblag without question today.

## Vote: UncertainKitten

"Just tellin' you guys that I don't feel like actually scumhunting, so I'm going to go for people who may or may not have picked scum based solely on meta."

So, which alignment do you guys personally prefer and why did you choose town?

I felt I had no chance of playing scum successfully against this player list.

##Vote: Jack

Really? You saw the player list before picking alignment?

"Yeah I wasn't even paying attention to the PM when I picked mine because I had already decided that scum was the only option for me."

Well, all I know is that I've seen you as disinterested town more than once, particularly when you get vanilla. Therefore, I think you'd be inclined to take scum since you would see it as more "fun". You don't happen to have some of these SEVERAL TIMES do you?

@DDD - I think Troll has proven very successful as a scum player in the past and wouldn't mind the challenge. Why do you think he'd take town?

"Ignore the fact that scumhunting is the best option for catching scum, I feel like using meta arguments and not relying on the content of this thread at all since I don't really need to scumhunt anyways."

Feel free to list the hundred meta arguments I've used. Also, give a detailed explanation of how any of those make me more likely to be scum.

"Yeah let's take an obvious exaggeration literally so it can be used as point against the guy who's caught me. Also, if it isn't a problem would you mind telling me the motive behind my own arguments? I wasn't sure if it was obvious enough, would like confirmation."

1. Exaggeration is fun
2. I never said the use of meta arguments made you scum:

Most of your post talked about meta and then you voted me. Sorry if you can't see the flow of ideas in what you write.

As far as your "case", where is my logic "shallow"? Terrible gut feel isn't a very believable wagon.

##Unvote
## Vote: Parama

"Don't mind me, reading between the lines here. Oh, there's a wagon forming on Parama, now seems like a great time to OMGUS him without looking suspicious for doing so. I can get away with it by acting like I have a reason and then not providing one because my buddies will back me up."

[Parama]

Giving up at L-8 is a scumtell for everyone playing along at home.

Not even trying is a better one.

[Parama]

Also, inb4 misrep accusations

[Parama]

Meta is the playing style - how I scumhunt.
Personality is how my posts sound when spoken aloud.

The way the meta arguments are used is more of a scumtell than just the plain fact of using meta - not the fact that he used it, but how he used it.
He used it to make BS accusations with no logical backing because he doesn't actually have to scumhunt, being scum himself.
Notice how in the post where he votes me he never accuses me of anything scummy.

[Parama]

Fishy I love the way you completely ignored the case I put up on VP

[Parama]

Elli the last time you said that I flipped scum.
Stop using meta.

[Parama]

I like the par wagon.

Yeah most people here who aren't town love it.

[Parama]

6, + 4 other-sided players.
At least, until Jack cults someone.

[Parama]

A guess based on my role PM.

[Parama]

Question: What do your previous two posts have to do with scumhunting?
Oh. Right.

[Parama]

That was at VP Baltar not Jack

[Parama]

Last time we played I was scum

[Parama]

Question: What do your previous two posts have to do with scumhunting?
Oh. Right.

Just highlighting your inside information. I don't expect to convince you that you're scum though.

Because I was obviously being serious.

Last time we played I was scum

Shhh, you're talking about big bad meta again.

[/quote]
Nah, it's just a fact.
I won that game btw.

DGB from one the QT of ours ->

I have to agree... another SlySly... watch out if he seems townie!

^^^About reading Para.

I think he's town.

Wait... what? Did I miss something? You have a QT? When did town aligned peeps get QTs??

FoS: Ellibereth
FoS: DGB

Usually masons get QTs.
By the way he's talking about Mafia 109 where DGB and Elli hydra'd.

[Parama]

What was the conclusion?

That he was fishing for possible post restrictions?

xvart.

Are you asking him? Can't you be sure in your own reasoning?

FoS: xvart

Also I forgot to do this earlier

FoS: farside

for timing on jumping on my wagon

God I wish I was a dayvig

[Parama]

Parama looks like he's going to be pretty distracting unless he settles down a bit. I mostly read his play thus far as clumsy rather than scummy but I don't have any experience with him so I might have to go look at some of his other play.

I'm scumhunting and I do it differently than everyone else here. I've already found 2 scum and a third's close.

Parama's scum numbers are ridiculously specific but everyone should be keeping how powerful their role mind when looking for scum. If others seem to be working with the assumption that there are lots more/less scum than you are it's a pretty decent flag that their alignment might not match yours (keeping in mind that there should be some variation of power inside the town.)

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

@Parama: Really? Why would you give up like that? Seriously?

Who gave up? Me? No, I just said that to see what VP would respond at the same time I was typing up my case against him (which everyone has ignored)

@Para: seriously? Are you just going to OMGUS everyone on your wagon?

VP isn't OMGUS considering I wanted a VP lynch since before there was really a wagon on me and before he voted me. Xvart gets a FoS for being scummy and farside gets one for the lame reasoning + timing of her vote.

@Parama: Wow, that was terrible, you totally just made xvart's argument almost work.

No clue what you mean by this <.<

Para has VI juice pouring out of his eyes, with a couple scummy traits, hence my FoS. quote]
Never call me a VI again. I'm making more sense right now than most everybody here.

Llama, I usually don't follow wagons unless I have no good scum reads to jump on.
Right now I have 3 of those. Seems like I won't be following wagons for a while.

[Parama]

Llama, I usually don't follow wagons unless I have no good scum reads to jump on.

Does that apply near deadline too?

In fact, it does! I just don't feel like being on wagons that are obviously wagons on townies.

[Parama]

##Vote: Parama

##unvote
##vote:parama

## unvote
##Vote: Parama

Tempted to LaL @ farside

[Parama]

Add putting words in someone's mouth here to make a case more then it is.

I was waiting for this.
I didn't put words in his mouth; I'm describing exactly what he was saying while making his motives more obvious. It's not misrep if everything I said was true.

what town pm tells you this?

Hey look! Rolefishing!

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Hey look! Rolefishing!

Does that apply near deadline too?

In fact, it does! I just don't feel like being on wagons that are obviously wagons on townies.

It helps to know for sure who all the townies are, doesn't it?

I can tell townies apart from scum more often than not. I've adamantly opposed lynches that I knew were going to flip town while being town myself.

@Parama: Ok, and as for the OMGUS you said that everyone on your wagon likes being not town or something to that effect. I can't be arsed to quote you exactly. That's what I was referring to.

And what will you do if I call you a VI again? I merely call them as I see them, and you are so all over the place it's not even funny.

Oddly enough, that raises your liklihood of being town.

I haven't even played with half the people on my wagon before <.<
If you can point out where you think I said this I can tell you what you misinterpreted though.

All over the place =/= VI. Am I making logic jumps? Is my reasoning for FoSes and votes bad? As far as I can tell it's as solid as anything that's been posted in this thread considering that VP is most definitely scum.

And I'm not particularly looking for town credit since I'm more interested in finding the scum, thank you.

Done responding, now here's some more awesomeness:

@Elli and Llama, your position that parama is too scummy to be scum?

I think the problem with this post is self-explanatory.

Heehee, I see that your only response is to counter OMGUS me. How...stereotypically scummy.

Yes, I OMGUS'ed you preemptively in my first post.

Also, how did I misrep Parama? Seems to me that several people read his post exactly as I did, so are you claiming that they are misrepping him as well? If so, why am I scummy for it and those persons are not?

OMGUS =/= Vote
OMGUS = overreacting to a vote like you did in your previous post and trying to attack the player who attacked you.

What was the conclusion?

That he was fishing for possible post restrictions?

xvart.

Are you asking him? Can't you be sure in your own reasoning?

Seriously? I thought it was a pretty obvious conclusion so I left the statement open ended with a question mark to be corrected as necessary.

^caught scum^

God I wish I was a dayvig

Or you wish you had any town aligned role right now?

xvart.

Having a daykill doesn't necessarily imply town-aligned y'know.

I'll tell you right now that I'm not going to play the one sentence post game with Jack, Parama, VP, and xvart. I just don't have that kind of devotion. I propose we lynch them all, what do you say?

I either post giant walls or short posts depending on what needs to happen.
Walls = responses, cases, arguments etc.
Short posts = pointing out obvious scum

Post 147 - Shotty is not town aligned. I can't explain it but he's not. I think the first 5 words scream "NOT TOWN! NOT TOWN! NOT-" - needs a 6th word to complete that last scream IMO.

I'm quite amused at the people who are voting me while also implying suspicion of Parama.

Setting up a dichotomy I see.

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.

Read the thread please, I already told you why you're wrong and what they were talking about.

[Parama]

Both xvart and VP need to die but VP needs to die first
Anyone using meta to defend me is contradicting themself

[Parama]

Anyone using meta to defend me is contradicting themself

Quick note: no time to fully explain this but you should know by now that I hate meta

[Parama]

I'm staying on VP if anyone cares.

[Parama]

Parama 169 is ><. You're really bad at this game, aren't you?

tsk tsk tsk

Here's a cool example:

OMGUS =/= Vote
OMGUS = overreacting to a vote like you did in your previous post and trying to attack the player who attacked you.

Meanwhile, elsewhere:

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to

indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you

.

indicate that you are voting

voting

The wiki isn't God. Taking everything to the literal meaning is stupid.
OMGUS should be redefined as "believing someone is scum solely because that person believes you to be scum." Because it's saying the same thing and it's the same tell except it covers more actions that lead to the same tell.
I don't think I've ever really read much of the wiki.

You should perhaps consider sometime that five or six months on site isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things.

tsk tsk tsk

Setting up a dichotomy I see.

Implying you think we could be the same alignment? Haven't seen that from your play yet. But buzz words are fun.

You're implying that either one or the other is scum. You're saying that people who find both of us suspicious don't make sense.
IIRC that's a dichotomy - where there are only two possible solutions and one or the other must be true - a third option that combines both solutions is illogical.
Or maybe I'm just making stuff up.
Or maybe you know I'm right.

Quick note: no time to fully explain this but you should know by now that I hate meta

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

I seriously don't get the town reads on him. Keep contradicting yourself champ.

Keep completely missing the point champ.

Yeah I'm still happy with my vote.
Since when is DGB leading the town? .-.
Not that I'm opposed to it but I hate when people go and leave one person in charge.

[Parama]

GUYS.
STOP POSTING SO MANY GODDAMN WALLS. I STARTED SKIMMING THEM HALFWAY THROUGH PAGE 13.

d3x, you will not like anything I say this game if you don't enjoy the best two posts I've made this game (FMPOV ofc)

[Parama]

I am definitely not voting for pops, mod.

[Parama]

Mod: I'm still voting for VP Baltar. I haven't changed my vote since like page 3.

[Parama]

I am definitely not voting for pops, mod.

...weird. This reaction just feels a little strong, imo.

Or the fact that the mod messed up the vote count and put me as voting for someone who I haven't even mentioned yet <_<

[Parama]

If you're allowed quote what he said, go for it.

[Parama]

If you're allowed quote what he said

, go for it.

I wouldn't recommend 'going for it' without asking the Mod permission first. The Rules don't specifically say that you can't quote a QT, but better safe than ModKilled.

bolded part implies having mod permission <_<

[Parama]

this game needs more excitement, I don't even feel like playing anymore.

*whine complain BAAAAW BAAAAW*

[Parama]

no I'm actually saying it's not a parody
this game is dull

[Parama]

DGB, everybody got the alignment they asked for. It's called "the mods made the setup after everyone sent in alignments".
And the wall of wallposting really killed my interest as well.

[Parama]

I would sheep your lynch but my gut has been telling me all game that Elli is scum.

*punches gut*

That's better.

*blindly sheeps*

##unvote
##vote: Fishythefish

[Parama]

##unvote
##vote: Cobalt

[Parama]

Look at his ISO.

[Parama]

ack,

##vote:Cobalt

Look at the records in Parama's sig... Wouldn't you pick other if you had that record?

Actually, I have a 100% loss rate as Other (ongoing game though so I haven't added it yet).

[Parama]

I'm still up for lynching VP's replacement btw but I feel like getting rid of someone who isn't doing anything first.
Anyways, waiting for people's responses to my Cobalt vote mmk.

[Parama]

Hi Chrono. You've played with me before <.<
Stop using meta.

##unvote

Hmm... if everyone I vote for gets replaced... anyone else want me to get someone replaced? Apparently I have a hidden ability that makes everyone I vote for get replaced.
For now

##vote Shotty to the Body

because I really want to lynch a lurker. /lazy

[Parama]

RC, this game doesn't revolve around me and farside y'know.

[Parama]

GL, that one's really rough. I still haven't read all of it.

[Parama]

Very few answered the question sadly. I don't think you have either.

It's hard to answer a question like that when you haven't actually given proof of your accusation.

[Parama]

You've managed to do quite a few scummy things in so few posts.

##unvote
##vote: Nicodemus

[Parama]

Oh yeah scum CAN daytalk can't they.
It's Day Rule 4, Jack.

[Parama]

I still don't see how what I said was worthy of a modkill