Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[DrippingGoofball]

Hai guys

I already caught us THREE 5KU/\/\z!!! Guess who!?!

In other news, Elli is town because he'd never pick scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

##vote:Ojanen

I much prefer town to mafia. Although strategizing in the quicktopic is fun.

It'll be interesting to see how the non-hostile "cult" thing works out, I kinda wish I'd picked that.

^^^

10,000 Bonus points!

Serving you the cult leader on a platter.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why do you think there's a cult leader DGB?

You said there's a cult. When there is a cult, there is a cult leader.

Thank you for removing all possible doubt by behaving like a caught cult leader.

Also, Parama is obv town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Now you're blatantly misquoting me.

Just reading between the lines.

[DrippingGoofball]

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
VP Baltar
UKitten
Nicodemus
Parama

CULT LEADER

Jack

NEUTRAL

DannyD
FishyFish

LEANING SCUM

LlamaFluff
xvart
At first I thought Ojanen was scum, but now reading back I misundertood his post.

[DrippingGoofball]

You should put "non-hostile cult leader" if you're going to go with that.

ADMISSION OF GUILT

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey all. I'm going to

vote DGB

because abr says she likes to be scum.

I found another scum!!! What a day.

Everyone knows how I love to cause wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth as I devastate scum team after scum team with my awesome scumdar.

Ojanen is officially town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wait... what? Did I miss something? You have a QT? When did town aligned peeps get QTs??

FoS: Ellibereth
FoS: DGB

YAY more scum

It's like shooting fish in a barrel over here.

[DrippingGoofball]

##vote: zorblag

Troll is scum. Mega IIoA wikitell at work.

[DrippingGoofball]

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
VP Baltar
UKitten
Nicodemus
Parama

CULT LEADER

Jack

NEUTRAL

DannyD
FishyFish

LEANING SCUM

LlamaFluff
xvart
At first I thought Ojanen was scum, but now reading back I misundertood his post.

SCUM

Zorblag

================

Zorblag's post feels like a purposely delayed scum entry into the game. I've seen delayed scum entries in others and I've been guilty of the same myself. The goal is to allow suspicions between townies to develop

in absentia

.

The tone is artificial, unctuous, with a hint of simulated cheerfulness one normally associates with trolls trying to approach you to better stab you in the leg. If that wasn't enough, it's 75% IIoA.

Mmm, I have to pick between voting the cult leader or a scumbag. I'm going to go for the scumbag because the cult leader is such an obvious vig call.

## vote: Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

'nuff townie in-fighting

MOAR ZORBLAG VOATS PLZ

He's not his normal self. Outstandingly not his normal self.

[DrippingGoofball]

This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware and

quote

their mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.

So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.

It's not suspicious. Seriously. I don't think Ellibereth nor I should respond. Because. Guess what. I like to see who is fishing for masons, for my entertainment.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: He's long winded but had a couple of good points in his wall IMO. But, I'll let Troll cover his own defense.

I've seen him as scum and as town. I'm overwhelmed with my sixth sense tingling that he's scum.

Re: YouTube, one of the selections is "hammer" haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yeah.

xvart

IS

scum.

Zorblag & xvart.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm reading DGB's accusation of Zorblag. It's a tell I've never heard of and I don't see it.

There's an unusual amount of sucking up to players it in. Check. Plus coming late in the game... and seeming overly cautious.

I have to finish puttying my new stained glass window, clean up, and tonight or tomorrow I'll delight you with a thorough ripping apart of his scum post. I trust you will see the light.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Llama: What do you think of UK and Zorblag?

Wait up for my Zorblag case please.

I'm off to play badminton in a few minutes, so I don't have time right now, but it will be my priority next time I'm online.

[DrippingGoofball]

Good day. I know most of you but for those that I'm meeting for the first time you're welcome to call me any of Zorblag, Zorb, Zor, Z or Troll.

FLUFF

Let me start by saying that I'm particularly thrilled to see that people seem to be doing a good job following the format for the voting. I was expecting that people would get that wrong a fair amount but I enjoy being wrong thus far.

SUCKING UP

Hopefully that means that everyone has read the rules and has a good understanding of the instant night mechanism. That along with a relatively short deadline for day one (15 days with 24 players means that we're going to have to stay focused and present) are the next two things that we want to make sure we're all on top of.

INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

If I was one of the first posters this game I was probably going to ask questions similar to the ones that Ojanen asked; they seem a pretty valuable way to get meaningful conversation going in this game. I think that it should be reasonably valuable to start with our expectations of how likely people are to pick various teams and work there.

INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

Personally I picked town...

WIFOM

...because in general scum is fairly easy to play

FALSE

...whereas town is a nice challenge without being as impossible as other would be likely to be (I can get killed as town and not lose for my team; I imagine that wouldn't be the case for most other roles.) I like a challenge but I also like to have a decent shot at winning when I play a game.

FLUFF - INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

Parama looks like he's going to be pretty distracting unless he settles down a bit. I mostly read his play thus far as clumsy rather than scummy but I don't have any experience with him so I might have to go look at some of his other play. He also is the one person who didn't pre-in so his claim that he joined based just on player list seems pretty decent. The rest of you I expect joined in larger part because it gave you the chance to pick your alignment.

NON-COMMITTAL - INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

The whole cult as non-hostile other idea seems pretty odd. Given that Vi was part of the design team here it's probably more likely that if we've got non-hostile others they'll have win conditions more in line with some of the ones listed in the possible win conditions listed in Mafia Reverberation (lyncher, moychendiser (which was already mentioned), researcher, reporter and survivor would all work.) I don't think that it's worth spending too much time on the setup speculation until we've seen some flips but those are the sorts of roles that I'll be keeping in mind when watching for behavior. Cults and Serial Killers are the obvious potential hostile others but I'm sure that it would be possible to come up with others..

GIANT, PLANET-SIZE INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

Parama's scum numbers are ridiculously specific but everyone should be keeping how powerful their role mind when looking for scum. If others seem to be working with the assumption that there are lots more/less scum than you are it's a pretty decent flag that their alignment might not match yours (keeping in mind that there should be some variation of power inside the town.)

BIG OLE INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS (IIoA)

For those that know Jack, is this his standard play or is the cult business an unusual distraction?

DOES NOT CONSIDER JACK MAY BE SCUM

##Vote: Charter

for being the first one alphabetically by user name not to have posted yet.

AFTER ALL THIS TALK, A RANDOM VOTE???

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB- I'll wait for the Zor case for the answer to this but why do you say he came in late?

He came in on page 5. I thought he came in later. Never mind that part.

[DrippingGoofball]

So, what you said to DGB, DDD, etc is you feeling them out to see if they are scum?

He needs to hear more from me. My 18 posts aren't enough.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also Troll, I don't know if I'm "sticking up" for you so much as I want DGB to explain herself better. Like I said, your posting style doesn't seem to change much from town to scum so I don't see how she is claiming it to be so obvious.

That Troll post I disintegrated with a laser gun was, to me, obvious; damn all meta arguments, it's scummy all of itself. And now I'm sitting back, admiring my handiwork and wondering if I'm on to something, and I'm seeing (and this is something I sense in my GoofballGut^TM), Zorblag fighting hard and fast to... to... to

appear

town. Fighting really, really hard. Suddenly he's shiningly town in a way that I've never seen him before, and god knows he's good as sounding town... but how can I say? Normally he sounds more detached and calculating, yet natural.

I could totally see Zorblag choosing SK. Was this a choice? I went back to check my PM, and I see "Town, Mafia or Other" - with Zorblag being such an individualist, it would totally make sense for him to choose OTHER. That might account for his heightened fighting spirit.

[DrippingGoofball]

(and it is interesting that she was browsing the forum this evening but didn't choose to post anything)

Yesterday was my 25th wedding anniversary, I read all my games, but didn't have time to post - and I had lots to say.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, two more townies:

-charter
-DDDDDD

[DrippingGoofball]

I need to update my list.

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
VP Baltar
UKitten
Nicodemus
Parama
DannyD

NEUTRAL

FishyFish
LlamaFluff
Ojanen
BabbaBouey
Red Coyote
Nicodemus
Phate

SCUM PLAYERS THAT FEAR MY SCUMDAR AND NEED TO DIE DIE DIE

popstown
Jazzmyn
Shotty
Cobalt
d3x

CULT LEADER

Jack

SCUM

xvart

OTHER

Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

Oops. O forgot my earlier read of Nico as town, and I forgot about you farside. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
VP Baltar
UKitten
Nicodemus
Parama
DannyD
farside22

NEUTRAL

FishyFish
LlamaFluff
Ojanen
BabbaBouey
Red Coyote
Phate

SCUM PLAYERS THAT FEAR MY SCUMDAR AND NEED TO DIE DIE DIE

popstown
Jazzmyn
Shotty
Cobalt
d3x

CULT LEADER

Jack

SCUM

xvart

OTHER

Zorblag[/quote]

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, hopefully you had a lovely anniversary. Congratulations on 25 years.

Thank you! The anniversary was as lovely as the 25 years.

Remind me to tell you why I think you've got that impression of my play later. Or rather remind me to tell you what's actually motivating play that could give you that perception.

Mmmm. K.

Why is it that Phate makes your neutral category? I'd think that he'd be a decent candidate for one of the lower down ones.

Thanks for highlighting that oversight, Phate is an evil lurker and he IS scum. Update:

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
VP Baltar
UKitten
Nicodemus
Parama
DannyD
farside22

NEUTRAL

FishyFish
LlamaFluff
Ojanen
BabbaBouey
Red Coyote
Phate

SCUM PLAYERS THAT FEAR MY SCUMDAR AND NEED TO DIE DIE DIE

popstown
Jazzmyn
Shotty
Cobalt
d3x

CULT LEADER

Jack

SCUM

xvart
Phate

OTHER

Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

Dear Players,

I issue this challenge to you.

(1) ISO Phate
(2) Vote Phate

Can you do it? Let me show you how it's done.

## unvote
## vote: Phate

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB I would take phate off of neutral if I were you and add him to the fear your scumdar list.

Absolutely, not only that, but he's scum. He's got only one post worthy of being called a post, and it's a kinda shifty weirdo comment asking me if I'm "criticizing" Troll for heaven's sake, why would I do that? Of course I made the comments because I think Troll is scum. Phate is trying to appear neutral, not ruffle feathers, escape notice, and it's clear he's uncomfortable and fearing detection.

[DrippingGoofball]

I like how I make DGB's and Troll's scum list for being V/LA, only scum take finals! I'll have a catchup post for you guys by the end of the day.

You can vote Phate and catch up later.

[DrippingGoofball]

Next list update I have to put pops squarely in the scum category. He's telling us he chose scum and is making up some nebulous story about how he picked town against his own preference. To boot, he's especially eager to eliminate Jack the Cult Leader.

[DrippingGoofball]

I guess VPB wouldn't be a bad lynch from my perspective today, but not nearly as good a lynch as Nico or Pops who just went spiraling up my scumlist with his one post.

In a target-rich environment such as this one, it really breaks my heart that we have only one lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

Phate wagon is good, although I'm wondering why DGB chose to follow Zorblag's lead on starting that wagon when she has a scum read on him.

(1) I'm always willing to help scum bus.
(2) I'm not 100% sure of Zorblag's alignment; but whatever it is, his observations are correct.

[DrippingGoofball]

How is this worse than pops, SttB, or Jazzmyn?

Or d3x
Or Cobalt

I hunger for the blood of these cowardly lurkerscums.

[DrippingGoofball]

I am definitely not voting for pops, mod.

Maybe you should.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, what do you think of so many people going with the Phate wagon? Common sense prevailing or scum piling on a bus?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Depends on the flip...

What do you think of pops?

[DrippingGoofball]

Withing Phate's 7 votes, there is undoubtedly at least one scum. Regardless of Phate's alignment.

If he's other... well it depends if "other" is a group thing, or individual thing.

So. What about pops.

[DrippingGoofball]

Withing Phate's 7 votes, there is undoubtedly at least one scum. Regardless of Phate's alignment.

If he's other... well it depends if "other" is a group thing, or individual thing.

So. What about pops.

Only one? I would say at least three. Wagon for the most part is all my neutral-slight scum reads.

Whats your opinion on RC?

I said AT LEAST one scum. RC is still neutral. Why are you interested in him in particular?

[DrippingGoofball]

RC because im almost at the point where im ready to lynch him. Depending on how a couple things go that point may be as early as tomorrow.

RC is town. That's my read. On the other hand, I'm smelling Greyhound exhaust. I wonder where it comes from.

[DrippingGoofball]

LA until the 10th or 11th.
Right now I think that out of the 3 major wagons Phate and xvart are town. The latter wouldn't have been so stupidly stubborn on the whole QT shenanigans issue and certain things the former have said felt genuine.

xvart ( 8 ) Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus fishythefish charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar
I have a town read on everyone on the xvart wagon EXCEPT for...

##Unvote

##Vote: Fishy

I totally lap up this kind of logic. Plus now I'm satisfied with Phate.

##Unvote

##Vote: Fishy

[DrippingGoofball]

I prefer mafia, but I chose town because I figured too many people would choose mafia.

Now this is WIFOM waiting to happen. "If I were scum, would I say I prefer scum?"

I totally agree with this bit - the second I saw this line I made a mental note that I ought to watch this guy. 'Til I was overcome by a sentiment of really bad and completely ineffective town play.

That colored graph was 6 shades of AWESOME.

<3 that DDD pops vote. Love it. I wish I had multiple votes. So many targets.

[DrippingGoofball]

What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?

I wee'd in my pants a little from the anticipation.

SPILL IT ALREADY

I am standing by with my ONE vote.

[DrippingGoofball]

Fishy, the vote analysis holds REGARDLESS of the wagon flip. You may get more information after the flip, but even BEFORE the flip, it's deadly accurate. Even I, who started wagon analysis, couldn't beat as scum even if I had absolute control of my buddies' votes.

This being said, the response I expected from you is more along the lines of "

I'm town, so the scum is elsewhere on the wagon, how about so-and-so?

." Instead, you try to discredit the analysis unconvincingly.

Thank you for confessing scum. Would you like to bus someone as we lynch you?

[DrippingGoofball]

Has nothing to do with a player being the "last." You've seen it at work in Kingdom Hearts, or was it PYP1? It caught Cruciare quite squarely in endgame. I'm surprised to see you try to discredit it instead of protesting your townieness.

[DrippingGoofball]

@VP Baltar & Parama

What's the matter, you didn't get the alignment you asked for? Are your buddies flailing?

These are honest questions, I expect truthful and candid answers.

[DrippingGoofball]

Honestly, I'm really disinterested in this game atm.

Would you be interested in a mercy lynch of you?

[DrippingGoofball]

And the wall of wallposting really killed my interest as well.

My posts are short.

Would a healthy wagon on you make things more exciting?

[DrippingGoofball]

Gamma is a bit more town because I don't see saying "I have something to say before the lynch" as much of a mafia move, I guess it depends on what it is though.

If that's what I think it is, there will be hell to pay.

[DrippingGoofball]

OK this game needs action now.

Say by bye

DAYVIG: popsofctown

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey pops

You're dead

[DrippingGoofball]

Why didn't you ask for a claim DGB? I would be concerned about DGB being a scum or other power role that can dayvig, with her killing a very popular target without asking for a claim.

I did confirm a suspicious player as town though.

You're welcome.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, pops is blatantly BS'ing.

What makes you think that?

[DrippingGoofball]

Very few answered the question sadly. I don't think you have either.

If he scumslipped credibly, we're going to lynch him. I assumed your "question" was a rhetorical one.

[DrippingGoofball]

What question? Sorry I missed it.

"What would you say if I told you Gamma majorly scumslipped in our neighbor qt?"

[DrippingGoofball]

Very few answered the question sadly. I don't think you have either.

If he scumslipped credibly, we're going to lynch him. I assumed your "question" was a rhetorical one.

Actually if Jack just claims he has a QT with him we are lynching him. IIRC gamma already called BS on one existing.

Is that true? I was assuming they were masons, and that Jack thought his mason was scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is that true? I was assuming they were masons, and that Jack thought his mason was scum.

Masons!?

You claimed a QT in which the other player scum slipped. What other choice is there other than a mason that is trustworthy no more?

[DrippingGoofball]

The post specified neighbors.

What's the diff?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB and Jack are engaged in discussing semantics. Neighbours is just unconfirmed alignment masons.

That's what I thought. Why is he arguing? Whether they're called masons or neighbors doesn't change anything with what I'm saying.

[DrippingGoofball]

Still don't see Fishy as particularly scummy.

Also, I only just replaced in yesterday, ofc my post count is low -.-

How's that iso coming along? Have you even read Fishy?

[DrippingGoofball]

Pops knew a modkill was upcoming?

[DrippingGoofball]

##Vote: Llamafluff

Please explain why the jury has decided I am a target.

We're still waiting for your cases.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh? *eyebrow raise*

Don't just raise an eyebrow. You gotta read between the lines, hun.

vote: FishytheFish

[DrippingGoofball]

##vote: FishytheFish

[DrippingGoofball]

So can we lynch Jack since he doesn't seem to be aligned with the town, you ninja? kthx.

Jack is not town. This is abundantly clear. Quite likely OTHER - he's been hinting all over the place, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not.

[DrippingGoofball]

I do know someone visited me, and I suggest they don't do it again.

Mmm. Looks like Fishy's visit isn't the sort that one welcomes.

I BELIEVE FARSIDE - the fire of truth burns in her belly.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well offically take him off L-1. Im very very serious. If anyone lynches today before I am ready I will do my best to get a gun pointed at them.

Better state clear objectives.

Townies don't suffer non-townies to live.

[DrippingGoofball]

I might even tell you who got bussed with RC. But who cares? I'm dead.

Fishy cannot be trusted to work with the town, as he is withholding information. Dead indeed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wait Fishy must die because he targetted someone during the night after claiming a role that targets? What is this I don't even...

Seems he's a roleblocker.

[DrippingGoofball]

In other news, charter is blindingly town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Seriously people, let fishy deliver what he says he has coming.

That's your so-called "plan?"

[DrippingGoofball]

Quite frankly, the Fishy wagon was REALLY easy for scum to jump onto.

Not only that, but the "others" will want to be rid of a competitor, and the town will want to be rid of some funky alignment that doesn't help the town. In fact, it's probably the "others" that are the most eager to lynch Fishy, town second, and scum just being old-fashioned opportunistic.

TL;DR - Everyone wants Fishy dead.

[DrippingGoofball]

I disagree, DGB. Though you have a point about the others. But I think that scum who were around would be like "Oh hey, someone who's not us is being called guilty, let's jump!

Scummiest player on said wagon: Zorblag. But no one believes me. Zorblag and me are like Jack and pops.

[DrippingGoofball]

Fishy and all his undersea friends do not require townies to die, even if he lied and his point conditions give him bonus points for lynching townies.

I knew you were town. But here's the thing. What happens in end game situations if all these "others" begin to outnumber the townies?

I'm gonna apply some super Bayes' theorem

A Bayesian? You must have heard of my husband.

[DrippingGoofball]

There's a good possibility that Fishy will flip scum Roleblocker.

No. He's "other." He didn't make up the details in his point-gathering system.

[DrippingGoofball]

Wait a minute, pops.

My role pm says that I win the game when all factions that require the townies for their wincon are dead.

Pretty sure that pops means "require killing townies for their wincon" - it's just sloppy paraphrasing.

And actually - doesn't that mean that "non-hostile others" are indeed like townies in end game situations? Can someone win with the townie win condition AND their point stuff and be a double-winner somehow?

If that's the case, we can leave Fishy alive, leaving us free to lynch Zorblag, whom I'm sure put in a special request to be SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

Do you get points for lynching a SK?

[DrippingGoofball]

And you get points for lynching other "others," right?

[DrippingGoofball]

We do know he's not killing townies.

[DrippingGoofball]

I want to lynch scum. The type that kills townies at night.

## unvote
## vote: Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB's post above me: I want that kind of scum to die too, but why is Zorblag scum exactly? His first post didn't seem quite lynchworthy to me.

80% meta at work, plus evidence of fake scum hunting, and general coasting and being more agreeable than ever to avoid lynches and NKs. I've seen Troll as town, I've seen Troll as scum, they're the same. Really you can't tell Troll-town from Troll-scum, you just have to lynch him after he's passed the point of being useful to the town. He's actually EQUALLY helpful as town or scum. Except for the killing townies at night part.

I know that Troll would like to work alone. I don't think he'd pick scum, because that requires heightened social interactions and associated frustration. I don't think he'd pick town - in my experience, despite him making extremely useful contributions, his scumdar is not exactly stellar (he may disagree!). I expect him to choose "other."

So here we go, a meta assumption that Troll is other. BUT. Is he "other" playing for points, or is he other, as in, SK.

Troll's ordinary tone, which ranges from quite neutral to slightly curmudgeonly, is completely different from anything I've seen in his game. His mood is positively luminous. He is glowing. He is one happy camper. To go beyond meta arguments, he's coasting and faking scum hunting - THAT I have never seen before.

Methinks Troll is drunk on the cider of being SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP: Supposing I got a role pm just like the sample, would it be possible for me to lose the game although other townies won the game

Other townies, or non-hostile others???

[DrippingGoofball]

Troll fails to answer my analysis in any way, shape or form. Instead, he picks out a few players from the crowd that he considers paragraph-worthy, and re-hashes old stuff he's already said.

Troll sucks up to Jack, who is a bit unpredictable and may be perceived as being worthy of soothing.

Plum already pointed out the holes in the PGO testing plan.

MOAR TROLL VOATS PLZ

[DrippingGoofball]

Let's suppose that one group of "others" lean to help the town in a way. Does that not mean that some other group exists that would lean to help the scum in a similar way?

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: Doesn't matter if they win points for lynching townies.

Did I say, "lynching?" No. For instance, Fishy says he gets extra points for transmitting his results to the TOWN.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume

that

to be true.

What I said is, if there are more than one such faction out there, there has got to be some getting points for HELPING the scum. Like one faction gets points for transmitting results to town, one to scum, one to the Jack cult, and another one to Troll the SK.

Troll the SK. Something Troll hasn't denied. He's hoping we'll forget about my psychic meta read.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: what is your level of confidence in you meta based read on Troll? For example, in comparison to your extremely strong and correct read on elvis knits in PYP1, if you can remember that?

I'm more certain that Troll is SK than I was certain of elvis being scum. The combination of him choosing his side and his very unusual play/mood are deciding factors.

[DrippingGoofball]

..."This game seems to have a lot of PRs". So what alignment is chrono?

And what kind of alignment would complain about there being a lot of PRs? We don't even know if there are a lot of PRs, only that we have a few out early. The thought didn't occur to me to tally up PRs in my head, even unconsciously, because PRs are a good thing. Now, if PRs were a bad thing for me, I would keep track, and maybe voice my displeasure out loud disguised as a neutral comment.

[DrippingGoofball]

What quote makes you think he is saying that? The more investigative roles we have claimed, the more likely it is that one of them is scum, don't you think.

How many we got? Two?

[DrippingGoofball]

Motive cop
Cop
Tracker

Anyway. Was zor complaining about there being a lot of town PR's?

So, 3. In a Large Theme.

I don't believe Zor was complaining about town PRs. Any PR, scum or town, is a danger to a SK.

I don't know what you're trying to get at here. As usual...

[DrippingGoofball]

and RedCoyote was RB'd, claims no result on his investigation.

Where did he say investigation? I don't recall him saying his role is investigative.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Fishy

Why aren't you voting for Troll? Nico is not exactly a likely lynch today.

[DrippingGoofball]

Motive cop
Cop
Tracker

Anyway. Was zor complaining about there being a lot of town PR's?

So, 3. In a Large Theme.

Seems like 4 so far.

Yeah, that is a lot. But we also have all kinds of weirdo factions.

I don't believe Zor was complaining about town PRs.

Any PR, scum or town, is a danger to a SK.

I don't know what you're trying to get at here. As usual...

And what kind of alignment would complain about there being a lot of PRs?

We don't even know if there are a lot of PRs, only that we have a few out early. The thought didn't occur to me to tally up PRs in my head, even unconsciously, because PRs are a good thing. Now, if PRs were a bad thing for me, I would keep track, and maybe voice my displeasure out loud disguised as a neutral comment.

Who were you taking about here then?

Troll. He complained about PRs. Not Town PRs, but PRs in general. And who would complain about too many PRs? I'm thinking SK.

Just pointing out that it fits with my meta read of Troll, and his coasting and lack of actual scum hunting. By itself, it's not a scumtell. Just a bit of supporting evidence.

[DrippingGoofball]

How's the cult doing, Jack?

[DrippingGoofball]

and that's a False Dichotomy, non-hostiles aren't with or against either side. OTOH Hostiles are against everyone.

In this post we learn that Chronopie is an OTHER.

[DrippingGoofball]

and that's a False Dichotomy, non-hostiles aren't with or against either side. OTOH Hostiles are against everyone.

In this post we learn that Chronopie is an OTHER.

[DrippingGoofball]

and that's a False Dichotomy, non-hostiles aren't with or against either side. OTOH Hostiles are against everyone.

In this post we learn that Chronopie is an OTHER.

Sorry for duplicate, I refreshed the wrong screen.

[DrippingGoofball]

fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag

Fishy wagon wreaks of others with a dash of mafia.

I think you mean "reeks of others."

I've got Zorblag as SK, and farside as OTHER (she seems to be competing against OTHERS for points), and I'll peg d3x as scum right now.

TOWN
DrippingGoofball (I am not voting for Troll, besides)
charter

NEUTRAL
RedCoyote
Gammagooey

SCUM
d3x
Zorblag - SK

OTHER
farside22
Debonair Danny DiPietro
StrangerCoug

[DrippingGoofball]

Someone proposed to lynch you???

(1) I believe you are not scum
(2) I believe you are a tracker
(3) I do believe there is a nonzero chance that you are Fishy's competitor, and I don't think you can blame me for considering the possibility.

[DrippingGoofball]

We already KNOW that Jack is a cult that failed to recruit me.

[DrippingGoofball]

And for some reason that I can't wrap my head around, although the above is completely 100% obvious since page 1, all the wagons on him have frittered away for no reason whatsoever.

[DrippingGoofball]

and I'll peg d3x as scum right now.

SCUM
d3x
Zorblag - SK

DGB. You know Zor is just going to talk himself out of the lynch anyway.

Not if I can help it.

[DrippingGoofball]

We can begin by lynching Troll.

Then we can vig Nico.

It's very simple, kids.

Jack, StrangerCoug, imaginality, pops, d3x, Phate, Nico >>> unproductive voters.

GET ON WITH THE BIZNIS

[DrippingGoofball]

Apparently, being oblivious to the Zorblag case = being unproductive. Could you bring me up to speed?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 36#2266636
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#2267003
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 21#2267921
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 75#2267975

A productive vote could be on Troll, Nico, or Fishy... or even a player that has another vote. There is NO WAY that we're lynching farside. EVA. You need to move that vote.

[DrippingGoofball]

I didn't say Phate was scum, I listed his name as someone whose vote is unproductive. That's a list of people that need to change their votes and commit to the leaders in that 3-horse race we're having.

This kind of vote movement is especially informative to help catch scum in mid-game.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not the vig

[DrippingGoofball]

Zorblag, you are failing to tunnel on some players the way you do when you are town.

[DrippingGoofball]

I have to say this about rolefishing as a scumtell. I don't think I have ever observed a buddy rolefishing. I think that's a very weak scumtell, if it's even a scumtell.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why is Jack alive?

Some people would like to be recruited?

[DrippingGoofball]

I've never seen Zorblag sweet-talk before.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

Or recruiting players into a cult, like Jack. I hope someone is roleblocking Jack. EVERY. NIGHT.

Or we can lynch him, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

That's my position; all these "non-hostile others" are going to be at each other's throats. Since they lack a NK, they need to operate during the day.

[DrippingGoofball]

But if you are a member of say, the legislature, and fishy is in the judiciary, who else would you vote for? I wonder what farside said about xvart.

That's my position; all these "non-hostile others" are going to be at each other's throats. Since they lack a NK, they need to operate during the day.

[DrippingGoofball]

I GUARANTEE that farside WOULD distance - possibly with reasoning that makes little sense. Can you verify that?

[DrippingGoofball]

I GUARANTEE that farside WOULD distance - possibly with reasoning that makes little sense. Can you verify that?

[DrippingGoofball]

Right lets see he's bussing while I'm distancing?

Gadzooks! Bus'ing is distancing with a vote. The phenomena is often reciprocal.

[DrippingGoofball]

Jack: You think I'm bussing someone in my own faction? Are you high?

What other kind of bus'ing is there? (referring to xvart)

And fishy is claiming his faction is non-hostile other why would I be bussing him?

I think you are an opposing faction to Fishy. Otherwise you wouldn't have investigated him.

[DrippingGoofball]

And fishy is claiming his faction is non-hostile other why would I be bussing him?

I think you are an opposing faction to Fishy. Otherwise you wouldn't have investigated him.

Wait, what? Farside

knew

Fishy's alignment D1? Where's the evidence?

Tsk tsk. No. I meant that she wouldn't investigate a player from her own non-hostile faction. Fishy and Farside are NOT from the same group. This is NOT bus'ing.

[DrippingGoofball]

In case it's not obvious, d3x's post is completely useless.

[DrippingGoofball]

You forgot Jack the Cult Recruiter, Elli.

[DrippingGoofball]

@

DDDP828

- Makes some really strong points, imo.

@

Fishy836

- Please define AntiTown.

@

Shotty838

- +1

@

Jack874

- Your point being?

^^^ highlights

[DrippingGoofball]

Nico is being replaced in a mini somewhere.

[DrippingGoofball]

If that's true, you should be voting Troll-SK, or Jack-Cult-Recruiter. There's a point bonanza there for you.

[DrippingGoofball]

You don't get points for SK???

[DrippingGoofball]

It's dawning on me why we can't get our act together and lynch a SK or a cult-recruiter, all those bloody point-eaters aren't getting points for that.

SO.

In effect. Regardless of the point structure. They are anti-town.

Isn't that right? They don't mind a growing cult, or an SK killing players at night, one bit. 'Cuz that doesn't knock points off for them.

[DrippingGoofball]

Jack is a self-proclaimed cult recruiter. What more can you ask for?

[DrippingGoofball]

##Unvote
## Vote: Troll

since Troll is a SK.

You gotta bold it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nico hasn't posted since the 13. We are now the 19.

I think scum is pushing that wagon on a player that flaked and is not there to defend himself.

[DrippingGoofball]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

Who even remembers what he posted? When he made his last post, only UKitten was voting him. This is some weird wagon. Who's on this wagon? Who's pushing it? You know, I'm beginning to think, maybe Troll is scum or other, and his team mates are pushing an alternate wagon? The whole wagon makes no sense at all.

Using msutils, he completely stopped posting anywhere on the 14.

[DrippingGoofball]

ITT he just posted.

Wut?

[DrippingGoofball]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

ITT he just posted.

NICODEMUS. I'm talking about Nicodemus not posting...

[DrippingGoofball]

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

You point grabbers ARE screwing up with the town lynches.

You are forcing us AWAY from a cult-recruiter lynch - Jack.
You are forcing us AWAY from a possible SK lynch - Troll.
You are forcing us to ELIMINATE your competitors - farside.

[DrippingGoofball]

Geez ani.

I'm talking to Fishy, excoriating the point grabbers.

Did I say you're a point grabber? NO.

Time for you to check into rehab, kid.

[DrippingGoofball]

You say these alignments like they are known. Jack being a cult recruiter is a random stab in the dark, from what I've seen.

He breadcrumbed it in his FIRST POST!!! He has not once denied it! He has claimed to have tried to recruit me and failed!!!

[DrippingGoofball]

I really don't understand why you are IGNORING Nico's rolefishing.

I've been on this site for ages, and part of innumerable scumteams. I've never seen my scumpalz rolefish. Nor have I. Rolefishing as a scumtell is an urban legend.

BTW - ani completely misunderstood my post. I never called ani a point grabber. He may or may not be one.

[DrippingGoofball]

At any rate, funny thing is, I HAVE seen scum rolefish, and it was hilarious.

Really. Well. That's a pretty dumb thing to do... You may out a PR, but then the doc knows who to protect... there's really no point.

[DrippingGoofball]

Some games don't have docs. In fact, I don't see these magical docs very often.

There's also JK.

Further, I agree it's pretty stupid to get caught doing. Does Nico strike you as a particularly good player?

Why are you so desperate to distract from a Troll-wagon, or even a Jack wagon... Jack IS a cult leader for cryin' out loud. You want to wagon a lurker that won't claim because he flaked???

[DrippingGoofball]

I think a mafia lynch is better than an SK lynch. Why? SK kills have a chance of hitting mafia. Mafia kills sure don't have that chance, now do they?

And vice-versa, you kamina-glasses wearing turkey. What makes you think they're not gunning for townies, if only because their aim isn't perfect?

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh, that and the fact that SK's tend to be partially bulletproof, and could soak a mafia kill.

HOW IS THAT GOOD FOR US????

[DrippingGoofball]

@ani: Wait...so somehow DGB is a point grabber just cause she called you one. FUCKING BRILLIANT OLD CHAP :O!

That one whole page was one big fail for me.

Don't worry, UKitten has outdone you.

[DrippingGoofball]

If zorblag got recruited and was the SK, could his kill be directed at mafia suspects?

Ask the mod, and decide accordingly.

[DrippingGoofball]

Beats the bullet being soaked up in a townie's blood-splattered chest, no?

That means the SK's kill still goes through...

The players in this game have been rendered INSANE by their WINCON.

[DrippingGoofball]

If I had infinite dayvigs, we'd have won this game already.

[DrippingGoofball]

My issue with the Nico wagon is (current game reference moment) Nico doesn't play scum well. I can't imagine someone who got (current game reference here) would chose to play scum in this game.

That is so townie. Or in this game, townie/nh-other

[DrippingGoofball]

Nicodemus votes are a waste of time. Chronopie probably non-hostile other.

Zorblag is fumbling now. He's gone from luminous to depressed. If he were town, he'd be of the mood most of us are in when we are lynched as town, that is, with a dash of "we may be un-informed, but at least we have the power of MAJORITY."

This is completely missing from Zorblag's posts. He NEEDS to survive.

I hate you all non-hostile for holding up this lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

We need TWO more.

[DrippingGoofball]

Zorblag should be claiming.

A good fake claim can take an eternity...

[DrippingGoofball]

Deadline is roughly 24 hours from now.

[DrippingGoofball]

I know that the claim is almost definitely true.

DID I not KNOW that Troll would pick "other?"

DID I not guess he had a killing role?

Hehe.

Now, is he SK, or is he neutral vig? That is the question. In any event, as long as Troll is alive, we can't expect government claims, hey?

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, pops is scum.

Nah. I'm banking pops is town. I stake my reputation on it.

@Llamafluff

- your plan is full of wholesome goodness.

@Troll

- your DDDD target: WHY DDDD?

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh wait

Is Fishy a member of the gubmint, or is the gubmint some other faction?

[DrippingGoofball]

I need to check something very important with the mod.
No lynching before I get a reply plz.

Hurry up that hammer is starting to feel heavy.

[DrippingGoofball]

Need to wait for zoraster...
I'd much rather have Troll aim at suspected point peoples than confirmed.

The fewer around, the better; they are sabotaging out righteous lynches.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, I'm perfectly happy to answer questions but I think I'd like to have you answer mine first.

@DrippingGoofball, do you think that Nicodemus is town at this point? His wagon is largely based on pressure that was coming from others before he largely disappeared. Apparently you're going with role-fishing as a neutral tell here (have you said that elsewhere as well? I don't recall seeing it from you previously) but what about the rest of his play?

It would have been better to have you answer that before we got to this position but you were more interested in mindlessly pursuing my lynch.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Mindlessly? Mindlessly??? No no no no no no. I guessed right, twice; I guessed right that you picked "other" and I guessed right that you had a killing role. So I was not "mindlessly" pursuing your lynch, I read you, and I read your mood, with laser accuracy.

To answer your question, rolefishing is not a tell. I cannot see the case against Nicodemus. It looks like a snowball of sheep to me. But. Sometimes I'm wrong.

[DrippingGoofball]

Speaking of snowballs of sheep, my sudden urge to hammer a player I barely suspect is a stellar example.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, no, there's certainly mindlessness there. You guessed that I picked other. That's surprising. Then you assumed that I must be a serial killer. Not just a killing role. You took your meta based on just having seen me play vanilla townie and mafia goon in the past and turned that into a certainty that I must be a serial killer and proceeded to spend most of the game trying to sell that. In addition you're doing this while convinced that I'm not mafia.

That's right. You would not pick mafia. So yes, I was convinced, and rightly so, that you weren't mafia. I could sense that you were especially happy, though, hence the conclusion that you were a lone killer. The game I play is one of psychology. I suck at everything else. I did spend a lot of the game trying to sell that. I WAS CORRECT.

Your reasoning about DDDD seems right.

[DrippingGoofball]

Here is why I seriously doubt Zorb's claim:

May 11, 3:35am - start of day 2. xvart has flipped government, non-town.
May 11, 3:53am - Chrono claims "non-town" result on me.
May 11, 8:21am - I claim "non-town"
May 11, 5:45pm - Zorblag posts for the first time on day 2.

So. I don't think that after someone claims a non-town result, you fire off a day vig you know is aiming for non-town before the matter is resolved. I certainly don't think you do so after I claim not to be town.

I don't understand that at all. And it's not because you're using big words...

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: Zorblag should have shot me. Zorblag didn't shoot me. He didn't post in the only possible time he could have shot pops. It's likely that he didn't shoot anyone at all.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DrippingGoofball]

If it's a fake claim, it's a darned good one. The only way it's not true, actually, is if DDDD is actually a point grabber. Or Troll is in cahoots with DDDD, but as I've maintained for a while, I doubt Troll is on a team.

[DrippingGoofball]

Someone who isn't me and will be here in the morning should unvote. There may be stuff to be said before night should happen. (I can't do it because my Nico-is-scum-points depend on my being on the wagon)

Wait wut

Do you KNOW that Nico is scum?

[DrippingGoofball]

I received a transmission, sadly, it is redundant. Jack was vanilla.

[DrippingGoofball]

If I can safely claim without people wanting to kill me then I'm somewhat suspicious of what's going on with the setup.

Can you explain this more? Thanks ahead.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well with Llama dead we can't ask, but it is possible that Llama choose to redirect UK specifically onto Jack.

UK? Why? That seems very odd.

[DrippingGoofball]

Fyi: anyone gunning for zorblag ITT should be considered government other, thus a Zorblag-kill target.

Indeed. Good point.

[DrippingGoofball]

My thoughts exactly. Let's get this show on the road.

## vote: d3x

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, did your transmission tell you that Jack was vanilla townie or just vanilla?

Just vanilla, actually.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not scum.

That part of your point plan isn't happening.

[DrippingGoofball]

Algorithm stuff that leads to DGBscum confuses me.

That's because they have made an error or they are lying. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and suggest bad math.

[DrippingGoofball]

Algorithm stuff that leads to DGBscum confuses me.

That's because they have made an error or they are lying. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and suggest bad math.

DGB are you scum?

Nope.

I am not a killing role. So your calculations/assumptions are wrong somewhere.

I am a neutral statistician for the census department. I work alone.

Every night, I guess numbers for town, mafia, hostile others, non-hostile others, and unknown. Instead of paraphrasing, I'll give an example of how it might work.

Example:

town=12
mafia=4
hostile others=2
non-hostile others=6
unknown=0

And I should receive correct/non-correct results like:

town=correct
mafia=incorrect
hostile others=incorrect
non-hostile others=incorrect
unknown=incorrect

I satisfy my wincon if I get them all correct before there are 7 players alive in the game or less, excluding myself.

I don't believe I will be able to satisfy this wincon at all. Because. I. Have. Been. Roleblocked. Every. Single. Day.

You could have a mercy lynch... I wouldn't mind at this point.

If not I can let you know how many players of each faction are left. IF. IF that bloody roleblocker finds something better to do. But other than that, I'm useless ballast, and the likelihood of me fulfilling my wincon are very dim indeed.

[DrippingGoofball]

I wonder why Troll always wants to shoot people that are NOT government.

Isn't it curious?

First on Day 1, Troll shoots at obv town. We'll forgive him this first bit of weirdness.

Yesterday he had a big long story to explain why he didn't shoot Fishy when it was known that Fishy was government. He could have shot Fishy while someone else got lynched - maybe another government would have claimed! And he had a long explanation when the timing of his posts proved that something was not meshing well with his claim.

Now he wants to shoot me, and I'm not government.

WHY?

Is it because his claim is a complete fabrication, and he CANNOT kill government at all, so he's planning to weasel his way out of it every day by finding "reasons" to shoot at non-government players against his own wincon???

WHO WILL EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?

OR

we can just kill the scum already.

##Vote: Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

##Vote: Zorblag

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: Why is a census taker not part of the government?

Because census-takers aren't government. They don't govern.

Thanks for asking, scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

They are in the employ of the government as far as I know.

So is the Army. But they're not "governing." Nor am I.

WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE POINTS I MADE ABOUT TROLL???

You are completely unreasonable. Why you would have to be, if you were scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP

"which is what you would have to be, if you were scum."

[DrippingGoofball]

@DrippingGoofball, if you're telling the truth with your claim why would you care at all whether I take a shot at you?

I would be happier if I knew your shot would be effective and deliver me of my un-winnable wincon. This being said, why on Earth would you shoot someone that will not be dead? Your role is "WORRISOMELY" UNPROVEN. We could have deal, though. Shoot me. If I live, we lynch YOU. How's that?

...in a game where you're hugely in the background compared to your normal play?

I've explained what my circumstances are.

Also, shouldn't you be cheering on the mass claim and encouraging people to do their part?

I might if some idiot wasn't blocking me. This game has been, on account of my role & roleblock, inhumanely boring.

...it's it interesting that the two most incongruous are popsofctown and charter thus far?

You're my favorite creature dwelling under bridges in the whole wide world.

[DrippingGoofball]

NOW I believe Troll's claim. Fireworks and all.

....wow.

Well, aren't you amazing, Zorb?

Leave it to a Vi influenced game to have an limited unlimited Dayvig.

Soooooooooooooooooooooo, now what, Mr. Troll?

So.

We have an unlimited dayvig.

And your claim, UK, is also vig???

[DrippingGoofball]

##vote DGB

Not government but still other. Her claim is really dodgy and probably just made up.

I don't kill people at night. YOU do.

##vote charter

[DrippingGoofball]

Just a vig at night, but I can shoot anyone I damn well please ^-^.

WE don't have two vigs, that include an unlimited dayvig.

We have an unlimited dayvig, and a SK.

You are the SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think you have quite a point there. I would favor DGB lying, though RC lying is also possible.

Way to say nothing.

She's the SK. There is NO WAY that we have an unlimited dayvig (which has been proven by Troll's deliciously murderous rampage), AND a "night" vig in a nightless game. I call SK. This is FINAL.

My vote isn't moving.

## vote: UncertainKitten

[DrippingGoofball]

Anyhow, I think we have scum/hostiles in DGB, UK, Pops, farside, and Strangercoug.

I'm neutral and I don't kill people at night.

Again, there is NO WAY that we have a MULTIPLE-shot dayvig AND a "night" vig - this is a freakin' nightless for chrissakes, how much more fakeclaiming SK can you hope for?

I don't care if Troll can only gun down government. He can gun down MULTIPLE players (that explains why his play was "luminous," hey!), there is no "night vig."

What there is, is a Serial Killer.

Now, that, we got.

UncertainKitten.

[DrippingGoofball]

In other news, I believe that UK is a vig, not an SK. Although an SK would explain why there's a hostile other category, seeing as there's been no hostile other flips

yet]

.

Look, I think you're probably town. But this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why do you think UK is not a SK??? WHY? You're just pulling this out of your keister. You give no reasons. Because there are no reasons why you should believe that she is a vig.

Let me repeat, since you didn't catch it the first time.

- WE ALREADY HAVE A PROVEN VIG.
- and that proven vig shoots "infinite" targets.
- this is a NIGHTLESS game.
- UK is claiming NIGHT vig, why? because she needs to explain away how she'd be a second vig.
- Occam's razoe dictactes that she's a SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ummm the flaw with what your saying is that zorblag only shots a certain type where as UK is a normal vig from what I'm reading. Also although there is no "night" when I track someone it's not for an action that they take during the day it's what they do during that twilight period.

Well, that's twilight action resolution, it's not a "night." UKitten wants us to believe that we have a DAY-vig and an NIGHT-vig.

What is more likely:

- 1 multiple shot anti-gubmint dayvig + 1 "night vig"
- 1 multiple shot anti-gubmint dayvig + 1 SK

I think the question answers itself, and UKitten's nastiness upon getting caught answers yet another question.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yep, that was really fucking stupid DGB.

You don't have to be rude.

Especially since I was correct.

[DrippingGoofball]

Keeping the fact that I could shoot more than once a day under wraps was clearly part of my plan for drawing the government out. If they thought I could just kill them one at a time it made them less likely to try to stay hidden.

That was awesomely evil, Troll. Loved it.