How to read lurkers/VIs

[MafiaSSK]

Hi there. This is a silly thread and I will explain why. For one, lurkers should always be lynched or vigged. It doesn't matter if they're town or scum being killed in some fashion gives the lurker in question less self-esteem because they no longer get to post their thoughts in said game. Now while they should be lynched or vigged at every possible chance, this

does not

mean that it should be applied with harsh tones. This absolutely discourages the player from playing mafia at all and not improve.
This brings me to my next point which is while it may seems beneficial to you for them not to play in any sort of games it can be less beneficial to the site.. If they join games with the right people with the right motivation fromt he non-violent words then they can learn and become better. They could then become one of the best. Whereas if you treat them with harsher words then they will not join and you could potentially lose a really good player.
Now moving on to the real issue of the thread about the town and scumtells that lurkers and VIs supposedly have. As a VI and recalling my past games I have no found no real scum or town tell that I have possessed. Even with the following quote by Glork

ith VIs, you mostly want to see if they're genuine. If they're attempting to reason things out, even if their reasoning is garbage, then there's a decent chance that they're pretty genuine. One important thing about VIs is that if they're largely incoherent as town, then they're probably not savvy enough to fake subtle towntells when they're scum. Don't let "X is an idiot" or "X reasons on a very simplistic level" trick you into thinking they're scum.

. I've been ingenuine as town nearly as many times as I've been ingenuine as scum. I've also seen Empking and K7 do this. This means that it doesn't follow the definition of scumtell as seen in the wiki.

Now for clarifications from the thread:

If they don't, ask them direct questions. Who are their top three suspects? IF X is lynched as scum, who is most likely to be their scumbuddy? Why did the scums kill Z? Evaluate them based on their answers. If they don't answer, or don't answer to your satisfaction, pressure them for more with your vote.

This is done way too often. I've been starting to find it annoying and live with the pressure votes.

Which reminds me, pressure votes are entirely useless. Unless I get to L1 and even sometimes not even then, I don't feel pressured to post anything. I will go on without posting anything that has to do with what the town wants from me

Meta. Best way without using PRs.

Meta is bullshit because people change over the course of even a day. I know I changed my playstyle over the course of a week.

Another note about this post, is the fact that when I say not harshly I mean don't repeatedly call them a VI or lurker. I do not mean treat them like a baby. Treat them like a normal player and have trust in them.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm impressed to see SSK comment on this thread. I feel guilty for asking a question after it, but--
If you had to play a game with someone who played exactly like you did, what would you recommend people do with that player?

I mentioned this in my post. I would indeed policy lynch or vig them. But not do so roughly, not insult them for being a lurker/VI while doing it.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm impressed to see SSK comment on this thread. I feel guilty for asking a question after it, but--
If you had to play a game with someone who played exactly like you did, what would you recommend people do with that player?

I mentioned this in my post. I would indeed policy lynch or vig them. But not do so roughly, not insult them for being a lurker/VI while doing it.

...If you realize this, why do you not play differently? Also, would your feelings not be changed if you had to do this repeatedly? If you recall, in Tech Tree, UK tried to treat you EXTREMELY politely, and you still refused to post content - how does that factor into your thesis?

I have changed my playstyle, but I can not talk about it as it relates to an ongoing game. In fact that ongoing game lets me talk about none of that.

[MafiaSSK]

Next question for the SteakSauceKirby.

What are the advantages (personally or strategically) of playing like you do? (Come on, there have to be some)

1. Less work, I can portray the same thoughts with less words. This is less useful to town but it gives me time to do the things that I should be doing to succeed in life.
2.Allows for constant rereads. To let the other players know that I'm following the game, I reread and respond to posts that I've already read before. Not that the rereads really helped me much but I'm sure if I actually tried then they could.
3.No real logical case can be built against me. Lurking in and of itself is a nulltell. The only real reason to lynch me would be a policy lynch. Then there's lack of content in each post. This too was a meta nulltell for me as I personally did this as both scum and town near equally.

[MafiaSSK]

Last (probably) question, two parts.

We've established that you would policy lynch, well, yourself.
The personal advantages of how you play (self-preservation, having an RL) are worthwhile but the tactical advantages for yourself or anyone else are nil.
As such, we can conclude that your success in Mafia is directly dependent on whether people choose to policy lynch you.

Now consider that more often than not, you will draw Town.
For obvious reasons it's much easier to score a policy lynch on Town than scum.
Therefore, would it not be fair to say that you disadvantage your faction more often than not?
On those lines, why play at all?

I've been aware to this for a while. This was defnitely another one of the reasons why I changed my playstyle, so I wasn't such a burden to my faction.It's another reason why they should be policy lynched asap.

[MafiaSSK]

Responding to this even though I suimulposted:

1. Less work, I can portray the same thoughts with less words. This is less useful to town but it gives me time to do the things that I should be doing to succeed in life.

I can understand and accept this to a large degree. Succinctness isn't a bad thing by any margin.[/qipte]
Meh. It's not a scumtell at least.

2.Allows for constant rereads. To let the other players know that I'm following the game, I reread and respond to posts that I've already read before. Not that the rereads really helped me much but I'm sure if I actually tried then they could.

I'm kinda confused here. You're rereading not to help you (or apparently the gamestate) but to give the

appearance

of activity?

For the most part, yes. Less chance of them using lurking as a point agsint me. It does help me in the sense that i makes sure I know what is happening in the game.

3.No real logical case can be built against me. Lurking in and of itself is a nulltell. The only real reason to lynch me would be a policy lynch. Then there's lack of content in each post. This too was a meta nulltell for me as I personally did this as both scum and town near equally.

This is the part that makes my teeth itch though. Why would your premiere goal be self-preservation? Which alignment of yours does this help more?

To try and learn more about the later parts of the game first hand. Also to try and give as much information as I can.