Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

dybeck (1) -- Amished
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- Espeonage, dybeck
Espeonage (4) -- Faraday, NickF227, Jahudo, farside22
NickF227 (3) -- Javert, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim

Not voting: curiouskarmadog, Ojanen, boberz
13 alive, 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 26th of May

[farside22]

For those who just jumped on what Jav proposed i will

fos: Sera

.

[Seraphim]

That's right, shit, Nick was the counter wagon yesterday, I forgot.

Unvote
Vote: Espeonage

[Amished]

Boberz: it was just a weird sentiment that you expressed, I wanted to know your reasoning behind it.

If you wanted discussion moved somewhere, why didn't you move it yourself?

[boberz]

Because i was extremely busy and was effectively BLA for most of that week. As I had explained a couple of times.

[Amished]

So if there's one way/person that you're not sure of now that you seem to be less busy; who would you choose to push/question to get a better read on/whatever?

[Javert]

1.)

I will say that yes Sando could have tried the ole X is scum therefore my vote but that rarely works. I fake claimed cop once and said I got town on someone I knew was town and everyone thought the player was my scum partner.
He was town.

All this example tells me is that curiouskarmadog might be more likely town because Sando claimed an innocent result on curiouskarmadog. I am not really seeing how NickF227 fits into this example.

As for “rarely works,” I just have to disagree. When a claimed Cop claims a guilty result on a player who a number of people find scummy, there is a pretty good chance the investigation target will be lynched.

2.)

Javert, do you only look for associative tells?

How is bv and Nick associated then?

I most frequently look for associative tells once a player flips scum. I already looked for associations for bv310 on Day Two – from that, I decided that RichardGHP and Albert B. Rampage were probably not scum with bv310, but I did not have much luck finding people I thought likely to be partners. (I don't know if I ever explicitly mentioned the Albert B. Rampage portion in-thread, but this is based largely on Post 589, which looks like bv310-scum sulking about an “unfair” situation). I did not have any conclusions for bv310 concerning NickF227.

But to answer your first question, no, I do not only look for associative tells. NickF227 is independently scummy, as I explained in Post 1309.

Also, to be clear, I do not think there is a strong association between Sando and NickF227. I merely looked at Sando again to see if I thought NickF227 was

town

based on Sando's actions and attitude towards NickF227. I have decided that Sando's posts do not suggest this (and they even hint at last-minute distancing when Sando was at five votes), so I returned to voting my top suspect.

3.)

That's right, shit, Nick was the counter wagon yesterday, I forgot.

I have not gotten to reread the entire game, but I did reread Sando, and specifically his (lack of) interactions with NickF227.

Vote: NickF227.

I was worried at first that Sando might have been trying to get a true counterwagon on NickF227 yesterday

, but it occurred to me that if Sando

really

wanted to try for a counterwagon, he would have just claimed a guilty investigation on NickF227 when he fake-claimed Cop.

In fact, Sando's vote of NickF227 yesterday was the first time Sando ever even mentioned NickF227 the entire game. I can easily see that vote as a distancing vote.

How could you “forget that NickF227 was the counter-wagon” when my post where I voted NickF227 (which you based your vote off)

explicitly discussed

the possibility of NickF227 being a true counterwagon?

FoS: Seraphim

[dybeck]

There was a time I could seriously have gone for a Nick wagon. I'm not entirely certain that time is still ongoing.

[Amished]

What made you change your mind, dybeck?

[farside22]

I'm starting to think Sera is scum, more and more now.
I need to read up on him tomorrow.
Jav: I just see a weak counter wagon going on with Sando and Sando voted nick and so did Esp and it just looked like a weak counter wagon to help a scum buddy out in my view.

[Ojanen]

After reviewing D1, I still don't like Espy as a partner for bv, not waffling on that one now. Not for the bv vote, not for being the target of bv's holier-than-though "omigod are you rolefishing" about the Zito is a vig comment, not for Sando using Espy's vote to make look bv wagon worse.

Good gracious my involvement in this game sucks atm... I absolutely need to win a competition next week and I'm preparing for it while sorting out a million other things. I'm trying etc but yeah. I still think it's better I don't replace out because this game is 60 pages and my view is only moderately clouded but sorry for the activity slump.

[Espeonage]

Gah. There is nothing I feel like i have anything to add my opinion to. I am happy with my vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

I dont like the nick wagon, and Esp just seems too easy.

I'm starting to think Sera is scum, more and more now.

this, why wait for tomorrow?

also i dont understand the Foses, but no serious votes.

vote Sera

Gah. There is nothing I feel like i have anything to add my opinion to. I am happy with my vote.

you are useless (I would like you to address this comment). Do you think you are useless? What is your opinion on your wagon? Nick's? Name two scum and why.

[Espeonage]

ABR for his fake countewrclaim then calling himself scum gambit.
Nick for the reasons i voted him yesterday.

In this game I am fairly useless. But honestly why do you guys keep me around when you find me scummy and non pro-town? In most of my other games I'm not. I suppose I am only just coming out of my newbie shell. It just so happened that I started this game while still a noob. Got myself in a position where I'm not into the game and have other games that are alot more interesting than this one.

[Seraphim]

I forgot it because I have had other things on my mind besides this game and my involvement has honestly been half-assed. This game has been moving at the speed of molasses and it seems like the town has not been moving in a worthwhile direction for a while now.

Hopefully some rereads on key wagons will change that.

I still think it's possible for Nick to be scum...it's entirely possible that Sando's vote was distancing/bussing rather than just a simple counter-wagon.

Espy...I need to reread Espy, I'm starting to wonder if he's town.

dybeck might be scum too...same with Amished.

I think I will reread all of them and post an analysis of their play once I am done testing, possibly even tomorrow depending on my time constraints. Try and get myself back in this game.

[Amished]

I forgot it because I have had other things on my mind besides this game and my involvement has honestly been half-assed. This game has been moving at the speed of molasses and it seems like the town has not been moving in a worthwhile direction for a while now.

Hopefully some rereads on key wagons will change that.

I still think it's possible for Nick to be scum...it's entirely possible that Sando's vote was distancing/bussing rather than just a simple counter-wagon.

Espy...I need to reread Espy, I'm starting to wonder if he's town.

dybeck might be scum too...same with Amished.

I think I will reread all of them and post an analysis of their play once I am done testing, possibly even tomorrow depending on my time constraints. Try and get myself back in this game.

NEWS FLASH! LURKER SAYS EVERYONE MIGHT BE SCUM! MORE AS THE STORY BREAKS!

[NickF227]

So I'm scum even though I've never lynched a townie, was a counterwagon at one point, and I've been targeted by scummier people?

K.

[dybeck]

What made you change your mind, dybeck?

Albert and Faraday informed us of their scumminess.

[Espeonage]

So I'm scum even though I've never lynched a townie, was a counterwagon at one point, and I've been targeted by scummier people?

K.

You do realise that at this point in the game your first point is probably not a good thing.

[boberz]

I have been worried about Sera for quite a while now (I am certain that I have said this before in case people think I am jumping on it). I agree with most of what ahs been said but I also have a new point.

In Sera's latest post it was desperate to make clear that Nick could still be scum. The only time I ahve ever spoken like that was as scum. It was more about trying to keep a lynch possible than actually push that lynch because they are scummy. It seemed very bad to me.

I have also been tickled by ckd recently who I dont think has contributed much recently. The best example was the last post where he moaned at people for FOSing without reasoning but then voting without an obvious reason. He hardly tried to stimulate discussion.

[Seraphim]

I'm hardly desperate, boberz. Also, I didn't push anyone's lynch because I want to make a reread first on the people listed above. ALL of them are not scum, obviously. I'm actually starting to think that Espeonage might be town, but that's what the ISO read is for.

[curiouskarmadog]

ABR for his fake countewrclaim then calling himself scum gambit.
Nick for the reasons i voted him yesterday.

In this game I am fairly useless. But honestly why do you guys keep me around when you find me scummy and non pro-town? In most of my other games I'm not. I suppose I am only just coming out of my newbie shell. It just so happened that I started this game while still a noob. Got myself in a position where I'm not into the game and have other games that are alot more interesting than this one.

why have you yet to address the post?...

Esp i understand where you are coming from with thinking ABR is scum (though, my reasonings were not just based on yesterday's actions)..

I would like to here you thought on this post in regards to ABR

that being said...ABRscum, could have done a couple other things too..he could have claimed town on someone, could have claimed town on richard (which would have again been suspected given the part of the claim about pom too)...he could have said he was blocked (also suspect, but more believeable given the no ABR kill)...hey could have claimed he was afraid to use strong mode again and used weak mode for no result...

there is a lot of things he could have done as scum, versus what he did do...this is all WIFOM..just need to think about it and reread.

so you are saying that "yes, you are useless in this game, though you are not in others?" and the "reason, you are useless in this game is because when it started you were new?"....if that is what you are saying, then why hasnt your playstyle changed in this game as you have gotten more experienced, like you are saying you are in other games? What are you doing in other games that you dont think you are doing here?

[Amished]

So I'm scum even though I've never lynched a townie, was a counterwagon at one point, and I've been targeted by scummier people?

K.

You do realise that at this point in the game your first point is probably not a good thing.

How is that not a good thing? I just got done with a mini and I cleared a person because they lynched two scum and was off of two townie lynches.

Unvote
Vote: Espeonage

I don't have the ambition to push dybeck; so I'll settle for my second suspect.

[curiouskarmadog]

I have also been tickled by ckd recently who I dont think has contributed much recently. The best example was the last post where he moaned at people for FOSing without reasoning but then voting without an obvious reason. He hardly tried to stimulate discussion.

really is that what I did?..or did I comment that "fos"es should be votes?...

[Jahudo]

Espy's at L-1.

It just so happened that I started this game while still a noob

I don't think that's true. You've been here 3 months before his game started. You have 600 posts.


@Sera: what have you found on Espy to think he's town? Did he say something in 1538 to give you doubt?