Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)

[UncertainKitten]

@VasudeVa: How dare you ask a women about her mass!

I'd vote you for it but Saint Kerrigan is obvious scum. He knows who the scum are and REFUSES TO TELL US!

Vote Saint Kerrigan

Also an idea I had: Do you think we should all synchronize sleep cycles or would that be too dangerous? And if we do synchronize sleep cycles, do we want to try to make the game nightless?

Clearly Me and Vasu aren't sleeping for this phase. If you ARE planning to sleep now, don't forget you have to not post and such.

[UncertainKitten]

I don't tend to read flavor.

Even so, SK is clearly mechanically scum, whether you believe me or not.

In fact, I bet you're his SCUMBUDDY :O!

[UncertainKitten]

So, while RVS is all well and good, I find it quite odd no one has commented on my sleep cycle strategy.

May I ask why?

[UncertainKitten]

So does everyone agree to sleep through night three?

Why just night three?

[UncertainKitten]

Because that's the longest we can go without sleep before getting random, and because we'll be able to tell if someone didn't sleep because their voting will be random.

Interesting strategy. The one I advocated was sleeping every night, but that DOES effectively make it so that we are guaranteed to not have a kill every three nights unless scum are stupid.

Meh...I still think there are better ways to use the sleep cycle though.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...thinking on it I think that "everyone sleeping N3" might not be very verifiable, and easy for scum to get around since non killing scum could sleep early and then do the N3 hit, so we'd only be screwing up our power roles N3...I think?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, actually, reading it, if we all stay up until N3, then EVERYONE will be forced to sleep D4, and should we agree to this course of action, anyone awake is obvious scum.

However, is the cost really worth it?

[UncertainKitten]

Aye, but is preventing one kill worth the chance of messing up our lynch due to the chance of randomness?

I was thinking everyone sleeps at night so that, even in the even of a scum kill, there's a chance we catch scum who have their vote screwed up. But that's also a small chance, so it might not be worth losing town night actions.

[UncertainKitten]

Seems risky.

I DO think that we need a sleep cycle plan, even if it doesn't necessarily catch scum. Having orderly sleep cycles will prevent stupid shit from happening, IMO.

I'd also like to discuss this with more people, since as far as I know, Nikanor doesn't comprise all 11 other players.

[UncertainKitten]

This wouldn't cover sleeping during the night phase, would it?

And why the hell wouldn't you Pitt? A designated sleep cycle will restrict scum action. Are you trying to be anti town?

[UncertainKitten]

Just wanted to understand your plan.

I'm not particularly enamored with a softclaim of being hurt by sleep.

[UncertainKitten]

Having an organized sleep cycle is a great idea. It will allow us to help power roles know when to target who. Also, I think, if we have certain people sleep at certain nights, we can systematically rule can and cannot be mafia, or at least somewhat.

I considered this, but given the mafia would assumably be a team, you wouldn't get any conclusive data.

[UncertainKitten]

Pitt is bugging the fuck out of me. The way he's saying things feels a lot like "LOOK AT ME I LIKE PRO TOWN THINGS HAPPENING SO I'M OBVIOUSLY NOT SCUM"

Eh, in fact, I'm willing to

Unvote, Vote: Pittbunny

over that.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, if you do you could cite meta examples of you doing it, ne? As all alignments, since you do that ALL the time.

[UncertainKitten]

@Pitt: I was hoping you'd find specific posts demonstrating this behavior. Even if it's just as town it'd be helpful. Because one it would show me what you think I'm accusing you of, and two show me if you actually do do what I accused you of as town.

Admittedly, the fact you are aware of it if so makes it more of a null tell.

@Person who abuses his shift key: That's a proposed plan. There are several others out there.

[UncertainKitten]

Wouldn't really be conclusive regardless; you'd cite that I've only cited town games, which I've only completed. So yes, null tell. Move on, now?

No, actually, it would still be good data IMO for determining your alignment here, even if you can only cite town games.

And why would I ever ditch the glasses? I STARTED this fucking meme on MS. If I have an avatar, it will have Kamina glasses.

[UncertainKitten]

How appropriate that flavor me would totally slut it up. That's great.

Anyway, yeah, still hoping for eventual answers to my inquiry, Pitt.

[UncertainKitten]

Would you like to repeat our delightful Disgaea mafia performance, ABR? Cause it'll end the same way ^-6.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: ^-^. My eyeballs are not falling out of their sockets.

[UncertainKitten]

I hope the flavor does me next

UGH UK is such a whore

flavor does me next

whore

Yeah, about that ABR :V...

[UncertainKitten]

Nah, nevermind, I was being stupid and it wasn't very constructive. The whore and flavor doing you comment still stands though.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, good thing flavor is meaningless, ne ^-^?

[UncertainKitten]

I figured it was that and disagree ABR. The reason, I feel, is an exercise best left to the

student

other players.

[UncertainKitten]

What would having someone scummy sleep during the DAY do for us?

Further, you can only choose to sleep at the BEGINNING of a phase.

As for scum controlling town, that's why I would prefer either everyone sleep at once (at night), or we come up with an acceptable stagger schedule.

[UncertainKitten]

Sadly this is ABR town. Probably.

[UncertainKitten]

However, if scum don't sleep during the night (eventually), it becomes obvious who they are.

And, no, farside. They are only not voting for HALF THE PHASE. The first half, so it doesn't even prevent hammers.

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Which is why, once again, you demonstrate you aren't reading what I say. I propose that all sleeping be done AT NIGHT if we mass sleep.

@farside: That wasn't MY plan! PLEASE READ WHAT I'M SAYING! I THINK WE SHOULD BE SLEEPING EVERY NIGHT, OR SOME VARIATION. SOMEONE ELSE PROPOSED THE LONG TERM PLAN, NIKANOR I THINK!

@Reaper: I've posted in face with a name. But it's not so much as I'm hot so much as I've had a reputation for being very forward about my tastes.

Anyway, honestly, I'm trying to figure out how to make sleep hurt us the LEAST. synchronizing would at least prevent a situation where a bunch of players up and decide to sleep at the beginning of the day for night actions (or night action WIFOM)

...I think I've got it.

I propose that all players declare if they are going to sleep during the next day phase, and not allow the lynch count of players to do it (i.e., allow the number of players it takes to lynch minus the number of players to sleep). We would need to determine which players are allowed to sleep, probably by level of scumminess, if that number were exceeded.

Simply put, say we had a pregame. We had 12 alive. We would allow a maximum of 5 people to sleep, and if more wanted to sleep, we wouldn't let the scummiest of them do so.

This allows for town night actions to go right, and also prevents a scum majority from ever directly occuring (I think?), which may be the only benefits we get out of sleeping at this point.

And, easjo682 makes himself REALLY fucking obvious scum.

You see the tide turning against me a bit an jump on. How plebian.

Unvote, Vote easjo682

I wouldn't have cared as much if you actually had good reasons, but you are DIRECTLY PARROTING FARSIDE, who ALSO has my plan completely the fuck wrong. What's even MORE hilarious is you ignore Nikanor, who suggested it FIRST.

Why?

@VasudeVa

FoS: VasudeVa

. Once again, you completely miss the point. Whether I'm going for town cred or not does NOT detract from the merit of ACTUALLY FIGURING OUT WHAT THE FUCK WE ARE GOING TO DO IN FOUR REAL LIFE DAYS. Do you realize how short deadlines are? We NEED a solid handle on the sleep cycle, even if it devolves to everyone sleeps whenever. It is still important for town to KNOW that's happening!

Are you AFRAID of town organizing? Cause that's CERTAINLY how your post reads.

Either way, I'm seeing the merits of your plan, as shown above, farside. I just would prefer you ACTUALLY READ WHAT I'M SAYING.

Finally caught up.

easjo682 and VasudeVa are your scums. I guarantee it.

[UncertainKitten]

Just to repeat it so it doesn't get lost in the wall of text

...I think I've got it.

I propose that all players declare if they are going to sleep during the next day phase, and not allow the lynch count of players to do it (i.e., allow the number of players it takes to lynch minus the number of players to sleep). We would need to determine which players are allowed to sleep, probably by level of scumminess, if that number were exceeded.

Simply put, say we had a pregame. We had 12 alive. We would allow a maximum of 5 people to sleep, and if more wanted to sleep, we wouldn't let the scummiest of them do so.

This allows for town night actions to go right, and also prevents a scum majority from ever directly occuring (I think?), which may be the only benefits we get out of sleeping at this point.

This plan should probably be commented on. The rest of my post is finding two scum for you all.

[UncertainKitten]

That was because Nikanor's plan, at the time, seemed best, but was NOT initially proposed by me, as I was accused of, and I was still working through to figure out which approach was best.

Sleeping every night probably was a bad plan, I'm still trying to work out this sleep cycle mechanic. Fact still remains that you (likely unintentionally) misrepped me.

/me looks at easjo's convenient gender marker

...strike all instances of himself wrt easjo and replace with proper pronouns. Sorry I missed that ^-^;

@farside: Do you mean staggering sleep? Again, it's not so much I feel that you are wrong calling me out on bad plans, I feel you are wrong because you are ascribing the wrong plans to me when we all are trying to work this out. I don't understand your vote for me and it feels stupid, to be quite honest.

At least easjo and Vasude have the excuse of being obvious scum. You, I'm actually pretty sure is town ^-^.

At any rate, you still haven't directly addressed my latest plan.

[UncertainKitten]

ABR brings up a good point, but I'm not sure if the fact we don't know who's actually sleeping at night justifies it.

[UncertainKitten]

If they are scum and they miss their sleep cycle, their votes / NKs / abilities will miss, which we will either notice or will backfire against them.

But again, that takes 4 phases to reach, and isn't a guarantee. Scum are likely to stagger their sleep.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, as an aside, if we do have some level of success lynching scum, I suggest the "nightless game" idea be revisited since it will be much harder for scum to stagger their sleep as their numbers drop.

[UncertainKitten]

We're going to schedule each player to sleep once every 3 phases, if they miss their sleep phase, they will go 2 phases fatigued, which means at least one day phase and one night phase.

That would mean Even nights would be hypothetically missed. And while the chance is high that it would show in their votes, it's still no guarantee. Regardless, it's a better thought out plan for night sleeping than anything I proposed.

@farside: That was me considering Nikanor's plan. It still doesn't remove the fact you completely ignore Nika proposing it FIRST and get on ME for it.

As for scum lying, the sleep mechanic IS constructed as such so that scum can't lie for too long as long as we stick TO forcing them to sleep at night. They MAY be able to skip one night phase. Skipping two would be too dangerous for them.

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Well, slight chance it becomes obvious after two phases if I'm reading properly? But generally will take 4 phases to catch the scum breaking the plan. Which is probably why we'd need to do very well and probably lynch two scum really early on. Course, I've caught two scum for you so we should work on lynching them .

[UncertainKitten]

Do you mean my day plan or night plan? Cause my day plan should for the most part work if we can break down the numbers. The night plan, I'm only half heartedly arguing for since at this point I'm not overly enamored with it but feel it should be explored somewhat to make sure there's no hope, if that makes sense?

[UncertainKitten]

@easjo: Thank you for making it more obvious you are scum. Not only do you not read the game and instead piggy back other logic, but you also propose something rather anti town since town being organized is BAD FOR SCUM.

@farside: My day plan still has STRUCTURE though, and never allows a majority to sleep so that scum control the town. I think the numbers still have to be worked out though. And why do you think I'm asking you why the night plan is broken? I've mostly abandoned it, and nowhere in my post did I ask you to disclose.

Could you PLEASE stop implying that I'm asking things I'm not?

And, farside also brings up another reason easjo needs to die. Now.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, understandable misunderstanding. I meant getting opinions on it, not necessarily pointing out flaws if pointing those flaws out would aid scum. Either way, I'm coming around to day sleeping anyway.

@easjo: Oh yes, because it wouldn't be obvious ANYWAY due to people staying awake during the day and suffering no ill effects. There's no good way to hide lack of sleep. Scum will generally have more information then us. Organizing sleep schedules at the least puts town and scum at the same level of information, with scum having a slight edge. As it stands, I think scum have a greater edge on sleep knowledge.

[UncertainKitten]

A chance that is greatly increased by phase 4, and FORCED phase 6.

Please, tell me PRECISELY how scum supposedly gets ANY advantage from organized sleep cycles.

And don't make it stupid, because I've had to deal with enough fucking stupid in mafia games today.

[UncertainKitten]

I love how you also completely ignore forced sleep after phase 6.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, and finally, an organized town is scary for scum in GENERAL, not specifically related to sleep cycles. Towns that are willing to actually plan will slowly circle in on scum as more information becomes available. You and Vasu seem rather...oh, NERVOUS, about this idea.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, again, as I have said several times, farside,

I AM MORE IN FAVOR OF THE DAY PLAN I PROPOSED

Intriguingly enough, no one has really discussed that either. How disturbing.

[UncertainKitten]

@Kenman: You're an idiot.

I only had to read your first sentence to know that.

You sir, are a fucking moron.

I shall now dissect your post and tell you why:

Point one about favoring sleep discussion: OH I DON'T KNOW MAYBE IF YOU DIDN'T TAKE MY FUCKING SENTENCES OUT OF CONTEXT LIKE AN IDIOT YOU'D REALIZE THAT I FIGURE THAT SCUM'S ADVANTAGE IS LESSENED BY HAVING TOWN KNOW WHEN PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING!

Point two about scumhunting: Continuing the idiotic trend, WHY THE FUCK IS SLEEP DISCUSSION AT

ALL

DETRACTING FROM SCUMHUNTING? Maybe

you'd

use it as an excuse to not do so, but I think actualy TOWNIES probably are scumhunting AS sleep is discussed. I know I am. easjo is still obvscum, VasudeVa is also obvscum, and I'd accuse you too but it seems really fucking retarded to have three scum on the same mislynch. At this point, I am convinced one of you three is a fucking idiot, and at the moment, that is you, Kenman.

Now, let me dissect your specific points about scum knowing who to kill when.

What? Just...what? How does sleep at ALL reveal who has what powers and who's a good kill? It's pretty obvious most people have an item, and it's ALSO pretty obvious that if any vanilla townies exist, they'll be smart and schedule sleep to look like a power role. I already broke your third point.

So, one pro, and no cons so far for sleep organization.

Now you see, your points in favor of NOT organizing sleep are also stupid. Points two and three, while decent, SAY THE SAME FUCKING THING. At BEST, you have a (half-assed) argument for not organizing being ON PAR with organizing.

Kenman ALSO, like an idiot, misrepresents my point about organization. I feel that organization begets organization. If we get sleep to work, we can get many OTHER things to work where necessary, which is FAR more damaging to scum. Scum need CHAOS to win, and an organized town has a FAR better chance of winning.

Therefore, Kenman is a fucking moron, and no one should ever listen to him since he is CLEARLY the designated Village Idiot.

And possibly scum, since his post actually gets less stupid as it goes on and more scummy. VasudeVa could be the VI in the group since he's been the least...obv scum about his feelings.

FoS: Kenman

anyway.

Oh yeah, and before you all say I'm being too defensive and clearly have something to hide, can it. Incompetence pisses me the fuck off and there are several games that support this.

IN OTHER NEWS!

, Pitt still has failed to answer my meta question and I'd like to know WHY.

[UncertainKitten]

...I apologize to Kenman.

I misread. It is VasudeVa who is an idiot, and at this point obvious scum. I blended the two posts by scrolling too fast.

Please, Kenman, forgive me for abusing you, the abuse belongs to VasudeVa!

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right,

UnFoS: Kenman, HoS: VasudeVa

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Sorry, but VasudeVa just tipped me over with the stupid. His entire post is just one long rant of someone who clearly does not think before posting.

Stupidity is basically one of my biggest Berserk Buttons in mafia. Stupid people are basically the main cause for any side to lose, in most mafia games I've played.

At any rate, I will try to tone down the flagrant insults my posts sometimes contain, and take about 5 minutes before I respond to posts that are beyond the pale in their incredible stupidity rather than doing it off the cuff.

[UncertainKitten]

Eh, I've always done it from time to time. I once played a game offsite where EVERY POST had a trope in it. It was great.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Every post I made, anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

@StupidVesu1: (Thanks for that, Pitt, I enjoy it)
It tells us when people are sleeping so we know what to expect from them regarding voting/fatigue, and whether they are lying or not. The Sleep Cycle isn't going to strongly help us catch scum, but without organization is more likely to screw us up.

@StupidVesu2: Well, you see, the reason you can't admit that I've caught two scum is, well, because you are one of them, and have actually been scumhunting. You've just been flailing like an idiot and coming up with subpar explanations for...oh, just about everything ^-^.

OMGUS? Hahaha, well, you do suck but honestly, I would have HoS'd you even if you WEREN'T voting me. You are being BLATANTLY FUCKING ANTI TOWN.

@StupidVesu3: So, basically you are against NIGHT sleeping, which we've established is a subpar plan. Since, Day sleeping, you know, makes that situation null. And organized day sleeping, prevents us by being overwhelmed by scum. Derpass.

@StupidVesu4: Then, could you please explain how NOT organizing sleep helps us catch scum?

tl;dr: Vesu is stupid. And he should feel bad for being so stupid. Whatever stupid ideas he have completely don't solve anything and he's just scared as fuck of having an organized town string him and his buddies up.

@Pitt: Yeah, we kinda worked out that night sleep plans are going to likely be ineffective.

@Pitt: You are basically echoing my plan. Though, I think we can have up to Players to Lynch subracted from Players Alive sleeping at a given time.

@farside: I broke down my plan once already for day sleeping. In fact, I even QUOTED that segment so PEOPLE WOULD TALK ABOUT IT.

I'll say it again. Everyone who will be sleeping during the next day phase needs to say they will be before the prior day ends. If we have more than Players to lynch subtracted from players alive wanting to sleep, we keep the scummiest of them awake. My numbers MAY need to be worked out better. If we stagger that way, it should be easier to prevent scum bullshit.

I understand Pitt's approach, and actually sorta agree with it thinking on it. Relying on your unknown opponents to be stupid isn't a good idea.

[UncertainKitten]

I thought I was a lot nicer in that last post, actually. I'm just telling the truth we he's stupid.

Stupid scum at that. At least I didn't overuse profanity and mostly stuck to calling him stupid and telling him (and everyone else) why.

But whatever.

[UncertainKitten]

It's not you dissenting. It's the fact that your logic...isn't. You are making absolutely no sense and it pisses me off because you are attacking me for no reason.

Is that "reasonable" enough for you?

You...no, your posts, which is more accurate, read as utterly dumb. You as a person might not be dumb, but I don't feel that your posting reflects that.

You either don't understand the sleep cycle, don't understand what I'm saying, or both. Well, actually, thinking on it, that would be assuming you were town. I'm not assuming that, so you are probably willfully doing both.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: No good/logical/makes sense whatsoever reason.

In fact, IIRC, the case on me boils down to too townie to be town. Which is, of course, not very bright.

[UncertainKitten]

@Me=Weird: We have six days to make an informed lynch. We are almost down to four of those days. I'm glad we have so much activity to be honest.

[UncertainKitten]

@easjo1: Um...no? How are they going to know what PRs are active and who's a PR? You still haven't adequately explained this? ever?

@Easjo2: From what I remember, that was actually the original night sleeping plan that you have chosen to ignore the details of. Though, it does have enough flaws so as not to be worthwhile.

@easjo3: Have you been ignoring every benefit mentioned thus far? Just because we don't necessarily prevent the scum kill doesn't mean that we still don't get valuable information about who the scum are by organized sleep cycles, especially organized DAY sleep cycles. I also think the way I proposed handling day sleep would increase the chances of a situation where scum would be caught.

@easjo4: So, why am I scummy and Nik's not? Since he was the one who proposed the plan? Is it because there was no one accusing nik that you could piggyback off of? Oh, yes, it is.

@easjo5: Well, while you and Vasu both suck, I love how you are trying to invalidate my imminently valid case on you by calling it OMGUS. Scummy move there.

@easjo6: Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...I think Nik very desperately needs to reread.

@Chrono: Your post is not making with the sense. Please start making sense. And catch up to current, since that plan has mostly been dropped.

FoS: ReaperCharlie

Don't like your attitude regarding organizing sleep, and the way you are phrasing "let everyone sleep whenever they want" is basically begging for scum to take over town for half a day. Further, it also has a more subtle bent against town organization. What you are basically saying is that town organization is futile and it shouldn't be done. Which would fall into scummy in my eyes.

HOWEVER

, something just occured to me. Early on in the game, we can have more people sleep. Even if scum control the votes, they can't get away with quicklynching. I don't know how to take advantage of this fact as of yet.

[UncertainKitten]

@Reaper: Well, you see, Vasu is scum, so he has to pretend he's proposing pro town stuff while letting his buddies know not to screw things up. (Hey wait, didn't he accuse ME of doing similar? How interesting)

As for scumhunting,

we've been doing it

. It has not purely been set up spec, and trying to paint it that way quite frankly reads as nervous for some reason. There's not going to be an 95% bulletproof plan that catches scum with sleep. What I, and others, are trying to do,

IS PREVENT THE SLEEP CYCLE FROM SCREWING TOWN

. Once again, if we don't do it in an orderly fashion, later days will end up with scum controlling lynches.

Also, what are the holes in my latest plan again? You know, the one about day sleeping and numbers involved? And such?

And finally...what constructive scum hunting have you done? What scum have you caught again? I don't really see any accusations being thrown out there by you, RC, now do I?

@Vasu: You oversimplify. You also conveniently gloss over the fact that unorganized sleeping raises the chance of handing free lynches to scum. That is, however, a later game concern, but still valid.

@Vasu: That's nice. You have a very special way of looking things that is proving quite incorrect, and therefore, as usual, I'm going to disregard everything you say as...not being worth listening to due to it's continued lack of intelligence as compared to the other ideas that have abounded and actually be constructive.

FURTHER,

every

supposed set up speculator has done a fuckton more scumhunting than you have, and in fact, you are more guilty of your own scumtell than most of us are.

Also, your use of compulsory town moves sounds like you are following a script, which very much feels scummy.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, it's less than half the town. But not by much. Basically, I expect tomorrow needs to have a max of four sleepers. So, actually, I guess I was a little hard on you since I was saying functionally "slightly less than half the town"

[UncertainKitten]

@Kenman: I think everyone who wants to sleep should say so, and then we pick which four actually get to do it. For tomorrow, I'd actually like to stay awake, though I'll probably want to sleep D3.

[UncertainKitten]

To be clear, so far we have for people who want to sleep D2:

Kenman
Nikanor

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Our plans aren't mutually exclusive. That might not be a bad idea. I also expect more people to volunteer to sleep though, so we exclude them that way as well.

@Nika: Ken still reads relatively town to me, and him attacking RC felt like it was on valid grounds. Not so much opposing the sleep schedule, but the arbitrariness with how RC was like "95% foolproof or nothing". I think RC is still less likely than my top two suspects, but Kenman is below RC in my suspicion list at this time.

@Nika: Your argument becomes suddenly more compelling with the quotes. But...I dunno, Kenman still feels town to me. Call it gut for now. After jo dies we'll see where things go.

@Nika: I still would prefer to have four sleepers to maximize our efficiency. But, I can understand the reservations on letting Kenman sleep. I'd like more people to come forward with their sleeping decision.

[UncertainKitten]

Ok, here's the list of volunteers so far (including Kenman since he DID volunteer)

Sleeping tomorrow maybe:

Nikanor
Kenman
ABR

[UncertainKitten]

That's cute, but a full commitment to a day is more helpful for determining opportunism and such.

[UncertainKitten]

Ok. So:

Sleeping tomorrow maybe:

Nikanor
Kenman
ABR
Chronopie

That's four, but if you want to sleep register said desire and we'll boot the scummiest from the list.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: I've proposed it twice. All sleeping be done during the day, Projected players alive (hereby known as PA) minus Players to lynch (hereby known as PL) are actually allowed to sleep the next day, as determined by a town vote

So, PA-PL=Players allowed to sleep.

now, to determine who gets voted on, people volunteer to sleep.

Also, I love how conveniently Vis avoids saying anything today, when he knows DAMN WELL day is ending before he gets back.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@easjo1: Too fucking bad. Quote stripes make my eyes bleed and it has been a gargantuan effort not to bitch you out for them.

@easjo2: Oh, I get it. Your logic is utterly stupid ^-^. That explains a whole lot. So, you are proposing that the mafia would...somehow KNOW a given power was used? Despite the fact that there are VERY few powers that make themselves known to the target? You still are not making sense.

To be clear, your logic fail is that the mafia somehow know a supposed power was used. Also that we aren't night sleeping anymore except POSSIBLY forcing the scummiest player who wants to sleep to do it.

@easjo3: It's earlier in this post. Please address it.

@easjo4: Already proved your logic to be stupid there.

@easjo5: And...you still haven't demonstrated it's anti town whatsoever, but thanks for FINALLY explaining that.

@easjo6: Ok, fine, just Vesu sucks .

@easjo7: You pointing out that he agreed to a plan where half the town sleeps and that wasn't what I said.

@easjo8: Which is still a terrible wagon because the logic you are using is demonstrably wrong.

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@Vasu: No, I'm voting you because your plans are demonstrably anti town, your logic is scummy, and your attacks on me are pure piggybacking and the ONLY "scumhunting" you've done.

I'd like to add "attempting to discredit your attackers" to the list but I've kinda done similar just with the pure amount of times I've called you stupid. Ah, fuck it, I'll add it anyway. You're doing it in a way that is trying to appeal to the town. I just called you stupid repeatedly because I thought as such.

In fact, yeah, at this point you've solidly reached the scummy side of discrediting attackers. You are using blatantly incorrect information and attempts to appeal to the majority to try to shake off the case on you without answering it.

As a bonus, you also are making excuses for your lack of scumhunting when most other players HAVE been scumhunting.

@Kenman: You have most of it. I've explained it in more detail at the top of this post. It's not EVERYONE sleeping, just the minority I guess (since it's everyone not in the majority)

@farside: Then just HOW are we going to verify that the "scummiest people" actually slept? And what does that accomplish anyone except nerfing our townie players who eventually need sleep? I don't see how your plan works EXCEPT as possibly in conjuction with mine.

Finally caught up, easjo and Vasu are still scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@easjo1:


Just...do you even bother with any mafia theory? Do you at all understand how power roles work? Please, please, spend a good hour in the wiki and come back with a list of roles that prove themselves as power roles to the target.

@easjo2: Strawman. At this point I've said that the mafia can't easily be divined by sleep cycle play.
Secondly, I HAVE REFUTED WHAT YOU'VE SAID! You OBVIOUSLY aren't reading my fucking posts at this point. I TOLD YOU WHY YOUR LOGIC SUCKED. And you are choosing not to listen.

And that, is, YOU personally being stupid.

READ THE FUCKING WORDS I TYPE BEFORE YOU ACCUSE ME OF SUPPOSEDLY NOT PROVIDING REASONING!

@easjo2: Oh, I get it. Your logic is utterly stupid ^-^. That explains a whole lot. So, you are proposing that the mafia would...somehow KNOW a given power was used? Despite the fact that there are VERY few powers that make themselves known to the target? You still are not making sense.

To be clear, your logic fail is that the mafia somehow know a supposed power was used. Also that we aren't night sleeping anymore except POSSIBLY forcing the scummiest player who wants to sleep to do it.

Did you just COMPLETELY FUCKING IGNORE THAT?

No, I tried to start this post nice. But that last part just PISSED ME THE FUCK OFF.

It's one thing to be stupid but at least be reading the other persons points. IT'S COMPLETELY ANOTHER TO HAVE THE FUCKING CHUTZPAH ACCUSE THEM OF NOT PROVIDING REASONING FOR WHY YOU'RE POINTS ARE STUPID WHEN IT'S RIGHT IN FUCKING FRONT OF YOU!

I'm sure people will bitch me out for how insulting this post is, but you know what? I DON'T FUCKING GIVE A DAMN AT THIS POINT.

Until people START FUCKING READING, I see NO need to play nice.

[UncertainKitten]

Nikanor brings up a good point. Items will be another problem and I'm not sure how we want to handle those. I'm a bit afraid of the "designated townie" logic, since there is really absolutely no reason to trust me or anyone else. I don't know what else to do though.

Also, for some reason my link broke, gimme a sec.



That was to easjo.

[UncertainKitten]

Quite eloquent I think. Well, I'm just trying to see if the diplomacy that my DnD character specialized in actually works. It's great, she bitches people out, rolls relatively high, and then everything works out :V.

[UncertainKitten]

@Nikanor: Not sure. at the moment I don't think you're scum, but I don't necessarily feel you exude pro town. It's just that others exude more scumminess.

@easjo: And no, I'm playing a cat. I'm using the hengeyoukai template, but really, she started as a cat. She is a Wild Mage though, which is fun. Since no one ELSE in our party seems to want to actually talk or do anything, she ends up handling the diplomacy in ways that should be terrible but work out somehow. I seriously TRY to encourage someone else to take it, then no one talks for five minutes and I'm just like "FINE".

[UncertainKitten]

Oh no, they love me. But then again, I generally don't have to yell at them for being stupid. Or call them out on logic fails .

I love how you concluded something I completely didn't say, as well. You do this often, or only when you're scum?

[UncertainKitten]

See, there's that strawman again. I'm not saying you are stupid because you disagree. It's because the substance of your disagreement is TERRIBLE LOGIC. And even then, I only think your logic is stupid. No, I think you, personally, are stupid, when you ignore every VALID refutation I have for your logic. You don't even try to answer it. You just say "Wellp, I don't see any refutation now stop calling me stupid it makes me cry"

That's not going to fly. So, please, excuse me if I correctly called you out for doing something stupid, and then correctly called you stupid for ignoring the points against you and acting like they aren't there.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vasu: Haha, nice word twist. No, half assed case means "absolutely fucking useless and not scumhunting at all".

And that's nice. Too bad most other players disagree. That's probably because, you see, you aren't making sense.

No, it's worse, actually. You make perfect sense...

as scum.

[UncertainKitten]

I've stated it at least three fucking times, jo. I've quoted it at least twice. My patience IS NOT ETERNAL. In fact, it is quite short. THE INFORMATION IS THERE. I've pointed it out several times. If you can't be assed to look at it, then you deserve to be lynched on that alone.

[UncertainKitten]

Ok, I'm breaking my earlier promise and I apologize. Every time I encounter something so stupid I don't have anything nice to say, I'll step back for 5 minutes. I expect a lot of my posts will be delayed in the future.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vasu: Except...it's not a matter of opinion. IT'S DEMONSTRABLE FACT! Your argument is somehow this is outing power roles to the scum, yet, let me state it once again:

YOU HAVE NO LOGICAL WAY OF SHOWING HOW ORGANIZED SLEEP OUTS POWER ROLES. YOUR ARGUMENT FAILS BECAUSE IT MISSES THE POINT THAT MOST POWER ROLES DON'T REVEAL THEMSELVES AS POWER ROLES WITH THEIR ACTION!

Please note at this point I actually get reasonably polite and don't ad hom you every other word. It is THAT IMPORTANT TO ME that this is read:

As for you easjo: Let me tell you, once again, since clearly you aren't understanding, why synchronizing sleep is better:

A) Organizes town
B) While not guaranteed to catch scum, has a far better chance of doing so than not synchronizing would (granted, that chance is still small. But better than 0, as your lack of plan would be)
C) Planned sleep cycles prevent town from derping up and causing scum to wake up with a majority, though this is more relevant in later game.
D) There is a fourth reason. I'm not sure if I should say it at this time since it invalidates itself if said. Suffice it to say it has good use for catching scum not directly related to the mechanic. But there is a strong fourth reason I haven't stated before and am not stating yet for organized sleep that extrapolates from the idea of organized town.


Since we're all repeating ourselves, how about you, once again, state how NOT organizing sleep is at ALL a good idea?

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Sorry, Vasu had the weird yay and boo argument that was really biased and completely irrelevant crap logic. And that was less opinion and more, once again, crap logic, hence why I feel that it was stupid.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vasu: Oh, that's nice. So, day sleep solves this, now doesn't it? Unless you are seriously going to argue that scum won't kill someone day sleeping the next phase? Please, do so, I need a good laugh.

Point 1: Organizing in one area makes organizing in other areas easier. The fact that you seem to be completely ignoring this complimentary approach utterly astounds me.
Point 2: Not guaranteed != no info at all. Your counterpoint makes no sense. I've come to expect that from you though. The fact that it gives us a better chance of catching scum than UNorganized sleep does, on it's own, makes synchronized sleep BETTER.
Point 3: Oh, glad we agree.

Too bad you once again try to discredit me in a completely hilariously wrong way. Once again! I am not attacking you because you disagree, I am attacking you BECAUSE YOU ARE ACTING IN AN ANTI TOWN AND SCUMMY MANNER.

All your posts OOZE scum. The terrible logic you use to discredit me, the false accusations of not scumhunting, the pure HYPOCRISY you exhibit in accusing me of not scumhunting, the pure HYPOCRISY of supposedly being against set up discussion but having spent just about EVERY post you've made thus far set up speculating, and without even trying to tack on scumhunting.

You are scum. It's non negotiable.

@Me=Weird: We'd prefer day sleeping since we can keep track of it easier, I believe? And, I'm not sure if you've been reading, but, we kinda HAVE been scumhunting during the supposed set up spec. Quite honestly, the two have been quite complementary. People have been taking stances that make their alignment pretty obvious.

[UncertainKitten]

Pitt has the right of it for the most part. I am, however, in disagreement about your point about arguing. While I have exploded several times at him, his arguments (and jo's) have also shown their (mistaken) view on the entire situation, and also opened them up to flailing to defend their bad logic.

I'm trying to calm down now, and I think I'm doing decently now that we got to point by point discourse, which, admittedly, I should have started in the first place.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vasu: So, you think scumhunting is something formulaic? It's not. Using "scumtells" is only going to screw you. I use intent. Your entire posting history in this thread reads as scum intent. You aren't intending to help the town, you are intending to screw up the town. And once again, you strawman me by saying I say you are scum for disagreeing. No, it's the WAY you are disagreeing. I've caught scum. You just are butthurt about it.

See, the hilarious part is, you still haven't scumhunted at ALL in your disagreements with my disagreement. So hypocrisy still stands.

Finally, as for ISO 12 or whatever, you do realize that was like, page two or three of the game, and it had barely started, right? Pitt pinged my scumdar. It was a serious vote. I've since been convinced that he has townie intent and it's a playstyle issue.

[UncertainKitten]

What information is being given away again Vasu? See, this is where your argument fails. You have not DEMONSTRATED that we leak any more information that would hurt town in any way. Whatsoever.

Breaking down? That's so ridiculously stupid I have no words.

Also, what's hilarious is...I did follow through on Pitt.

So, for those that like scumtells, we can add

Blatant misrepresentation

More misrep

And finally, MORE MISREP

Oh Golly Gee guy, are you done tearing up that bale of hay?

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: What sleeping during the day does for the town (well, townies sleeping during the day) is free up their power to be used at night, as well as prevents too much vote variation bullshit. Remember, I'm proposing we vote on the towniest to sleep during the day.

No idea what you are asking in your second post but apparently don't have care.

@Vasu: Except...town chooses who gets to daysleep? Or did you miss that?

I'm ignoring the rest since it's the same old tired bullshit rhetoric that...guess what, you'll NEVER LAND ON ME. Cause it's stupid, wrong, and you're scum .

Were it not for the lack of time we have left, I'd switch my vote to Vasu. He is so obviously more scum than even easjo.

[UncertainKitten]

Bitchy town, sure. But when vasu and easjo both flip scum, at least I'll be RIGHT bitchy town.

And you know I am. Hell, you agree with my suspects. Hell, I've even provided reasoning for why they are scum. I'd say that's scumhunting thar.

[UncertainKitten]

That's what I said, farside. That both plans work well in conjunction.

I don't think that telling people to sleep at night works on it's own though.

I thought that was clear?

At any rate, my main criticism is how do we make sure they sleep at night?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh yes, because with TWO DAYS LEFT I'm supposed to generate a wagon on scum, while derailing a wagon that is ALREADY on scum.

No thanks, guy.

Also, your main case is shit and I've already TOLD you why it's shit. I honestly can ignore your posts for most of this game and probably come out feeling a lot better because the stupidity is that much decreased.

At any rate, you see, farside is town. I have no reason to be bitchy to her. She's strongly town, actually. You, however, are obvscum.

In fact, please, elaborate on how not voting you, who I think is scum, and keeping my vote on easjo, who I also think is scum, with 2 days til deadline, benefits scum me in any way? Please, think about it, I delight in hilarious flailing to justify "scumtells" that really aren't.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm? I'm actually mildly curious about this Chrono. Far as I know this is only the second game you've been in with me.

I'm not saying it's necessarily untrue, it just seems like some really insightful analysis I want to hear more about.

[UncertainKitten]

Interesting analysis. I'm still wondering where you found a non town game besides Pledge from me . Well, one where I was actually against the town.

[UncertainKitten]

Interesting how no one has posted for 19 hours when we have less than 48 of them hours until deadline.

[UncertainKitten]

Did anyone else volunteer here?


Sleeping tomorrow maybe:
Nikanor
Kenman
ABR
Chronopie

Cause honestly, we need more volunteers so we can also get ideas of where people stand.

[UncertainKitten]

If you want, I'll sleep tomorrow. But wouldn't that mean there would need to be a lot less votes for a lynch?

For the start of the day, yes, which is why we are only letting four people sleep and taking volunteers, and then selecting four out of the volunteers to actually sleep tomorrow.

[UncertainKitten]

What justification did I give for being a bitch again? Outside of the one I normally give for people being stupid? (And at least I'm trying to cut doewn).

And, what's hilarious, Pitt, is despite the fact I apparently come off as naturally scummy, no one ever seems to try to lynch me. Hell, I just came out of a lylo getting dayvigged by scum instead of lynched .

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: we will have to agree to disagree on obv Vasu scum then.

Since easjo is obv today's lynch.

Anyway, vIQ declared incredibly convenient V/LA, didn't it?

Oh, yay, another sparring match:

@easjo:
A) Why? You have, once again, failed to explain how this is at ALL bad for town.

B) Point D is one way. Another way is if people who SHOULD be really tired for some reason aren't due to night sleeping when they haven't been permitted to.

C) How does this even counter the point? At all? And it's not a small chance. I could see town being all like "Derp, we're tired" D3 and then just sleeping en masse because no one thought to organize.

D) Uh huh, nice try scum. The reason will become apparent when it becomes apparent. I don't plan to hold it back forever, just it's more useful hidden at this juncture.

Now, to counter you. With NUMBARS!

1) What information? What can the mafia possibly use against us by knowing when we are sleeping, during the day?

2) Wait what? Like...what is that at all about? It doesn't make sense.

knowing that they don't need to worry about certain players because they're asleep thereby targeting the one they know to be awake because they are currently a bigger threat to them

This sentence just has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

3) The next sentence fails for the same reason as the previous.

4) Countered by the fact a limited number of people are asleep during the day. Meaning the mafia are almost guaranteed to suffer some ill effects unless they are sleeping at night. OH HEY, since there will be mafiates who SHOULD be tired and won't be, this works for catching scum.

5) Why is the mafia organizing themselves a good thing? I mean, I see your point (and didn't at first), but don't think it outweighs the scum catching points I've made at all. In fact, even what I thought I saw isn't a good argument since it still assumes that at some point we'll be telling people who's sleeping when, i.e. organization. If that's not the point then, once again, you are alluding to vague advantages that don't actually exist.

tl;dr: Easjo is using scare tactics and misinformation to further her (bad) points. And in fact reaffirming she is scum since only scum really have a use for these tactics.

Please notice that, while I have a component of "Scum will take over the town" scariness, I also have relatively solid good for us reasons which are lacking in your counterpoints. I also mention at least semi solid ways that the plan benefits town, whereas you stick to vague scum "advantages" .

This specious arguing of yours benefits scum far more than any organized sleep cycle ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

Ok, so, seriously, this list bugs me:


Sleeping tomorrow maybe:
Nikanor
Kenman
ABR
Chronopie

I'm pretty sure there's scum in it. I'm tempted to volunteer for sleep to kick one of them out, since I think there's only one scum. Only problem is, I don't know which one it is, and I'm not sure we'll end up with enough people voting on it to make it work.

In other news, easjo needs votes bad.

[UncertainKitten]

See, RC, my problem with your problems is...you just have rhetoric there. You don't have any logic to back up your view. I've produced logical points for why organized sleep is good. You'd just said it's bad without reasoning.

I'd appreciate it if you provided some ^-^.

ABR actually feels town. Then again, I'm used to playing with him.

[UncertainKitten]

1. Where did I say we needed to sleep more than necessary? Realize that necessary can be argued to be "every two phases"

2. Except the fact they'd be OBVIOUSLY CAUGHT.

3. Do I care? You're just wrong, since we've already caught one scum .

4. Once again, do I care? To be fair, I am trying to be a little nicer. I sometimes forget how special some players are ^-^.

[UncertainKitten]

1. Yes, you are wrong. Effects start to show after two consecutive cycles. Or are you proposing that we end up clusterfucking D3 and giving scum a free lynch? Cause I really hope you aren't.

2. Because, you see, certain people will be forced into sleep deprivation mode. The scummiest people, you see. That's how the plan works. And if they AREN'T being put into sleep dep, then obviously they cheated and need to be instalynched.

3. If easjo flips town I'll be revisiting a couple ISOs since I have a couple other ideas of where scum might be based on easjo's flip.

4. Only an idiot would assume I'm merely OMGUSing. You aren't an idiot, are you RC?

[UncertainKitten]

1. The town. I've said, several times, that we should be VOTING ON WHO SLEEPS AND WHO DOESN'T.
2. Once again, you miss the point. Scum CANNOT SLEEP AT NIGHT if they are not permitted to sleep during the day.
Further, this plan is only catching scum as an AUXILLARY. It's more PREVENTING TOWN FROM DERPING THE FUCK UP. Well, let me rephrase that. Argument D from earlier has a chance of catching scum that's different from the rest of the arguments I'm making. I just don't want to reveal it yet.
3. ok
4. Well, you see, I don't trust any of you fuckers. Have no reason to. Well, that's a lie, I trust farside atm because she looks town. I sorta trust ABR but am not as sure since he's harder to read. I don't trust the rest of you.

As for your silly Star Wars quote, you have, once again, FAILED to demonstrably wreck my plan.

So, RC, what PRECISELY do you propose that would be better, and actually give us ANY advantage and NOT lead to a D3 trainwreck?

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: Um...no, your solution SUCKS. It COMPLETELY opens us to Power role fail, vote fail, and worst of all SCUM CONTROLLED MISLYNCHES. There's no ORDER to who's staying up when, and without that order, it will trainwreck.

Further, it doesn't cover Argument D, which is actually a really cool argument that you CLEARLY aren't considering. Think for two seconds LESS about how vehemently against any plan you are (likely fear of an organized town), and MORE about how a plan can be useful. Since you clearly aren't.


Actually, I hope you fail to see argument D since you would probably tell your scumbuddies.

Yes, I'm calling you scum at this point. Your arguments, much like my other suspects, do not make any logical pro town sense, and feel like bucking any organization because you are afraid of it, NOT because you fear it hurting the town.

If you did, you'd have LOGICAL REASONS why organized sleep hurts town.

[UncertainKitten]

Actually, let me be more specific.

What, precisely, about disorganized sleep hurts the scum, WHATSOEVER? What precisely do they need "precision" or "planning" on that involves sleep cycles?

[UncertainKitten]

nah, you know what? I'm getting stupid myself. I can't accept that the scum are CONVENIENTLY those that detract from my plan.

At least one, if not two of you have to be town. I AM convinced there is at least one scum detractor.

I'm also convinced there is at least one scum supporter, but I'm less sure about who it is.

In fact, RC, I'd say you are probably the least likely to be the scum detractor, which makes it all the more frustrating to have to argue with you because you have it so wrong!

[UncertainKitten]

The problem is, we can't afford to do that. Unless by agree to disagree means you'll comply with the town's wishes and just be really sour about it?

A valid argument against organization that I'm surprised no one brought up is people going against the town's organization by way or paranoia or other such things and therefore making themselves falsely read as scum.

Not sure how to get around that one at this time ^-^;.

Oh, hey, one hour left, why is easjo not dead yet?

[UncertainKitten]

That's nice. ABR would have to confirm it but yeah.

Viqles is the guy who was conveniently V/LA for the rest of D1, right? Can't say I'm happy about that really, to be honest.

Chrono isn't giving me any bad vibes. Someone else is that I haven't disclosed yet since I really would like to do one of those dreaded ISO's of them.

Either way, you should probably claim.

Also, designate someone to pick up your item. If you are town, it'd bear looking into, and if you are scum we can duly ignore you.

[UncertainKitten]

Wait. Belay that.

[UncertainKitten]

I somehow simultaniously remembered and forgot the item mechanic. I actually would have to say that claiming your item might NOT be a good idea. If you flip scum, someone can pick it up and tell us what it did. If you flip town, it might be best to keep the power secret so it's still useful.

[UncertainKitten]

...that doesn't apply to lynches, does it?

Cause that could be really important...

In other news, why did you ask if town wanted you to claim and then after one opinion occurred you decided to claim after all?

[UncertainKitten]

Well, that was incredibly fucking retarded. Easjo, you better be scum. Cause if I die due to your lynch, I am not forgiving you for such terminal stupidity and anti townness. We might disagree, but there are FAR better targets to use your power to double lynch, and you and I BOTH DAMN WELL KNOW THIS.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: We might disagree on the sleep thing, but both of us know (suspects, etc.)

Anyway, this bolloxes up everything since we can only afford to have THREE people sleep if I or anyone else indeed dies due to easjo's lynch.

And we have negative 16 minutes to decide who.

Meaning...I have no idea how we'll make this work.

...wait, we just no lynched didn't we . You all suck >=[!

[UncertainKitten]

...hmm? Oh, nevermind. my time settings are off. Ok, we have 43 minutes.

And if both easjo and I die, then we need to figure out who of our volunteers is NOT sleeping tomorrow.

[UncertainKitten]

Also, farside needs to pick up my item if I die. Anyone else picking it up is probz scum.

[UncertainKitten]

Y'all are fuckshits >=[

That is my bah post.

[UncertainKitten]

Fucking called two out of three in the dead topic.

Also, told you that Vasu was scum.

That said, I was a raging bitch this game, and I really apologize to all those who's playing experience was diminished by my out of control behavior. I'm working on controlling my anger, so hopefully I'll be a little more pleasant in the future as I'm bagging scum.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the two I called were Nika and Vasu. This was by D2, btw. I fluctuated for awhile but ended up settling on them anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, dunno why I didn't catch Kenman. There was something at the beginning of D2 that had me 99% convinced you were scum, Nika, but I for the life of me can't remember. Vasu also made himself more obvious by proposing Me=Weird scum with the weird color flip, but that devolved to a null tell as people started believing it. I still think that the earlier people calling M=W scum probably were dropping a tell, but I can't tell you for sure since I haven't checked.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: Still not sure I'd have been a good rez. Odds are I'd have pushed ABR D2 as usual, unless I noticed once again whatever tipped me off to Nikanor. I might have kept pushing Vasu, but I can't be certain of that. While it's nice that I had 2 of the scum by the end of the game, that was from an ivory tower where I could coolly examine the game without being invested in it. You did have a solid point that I was antagonistic. I personally wish you had waited to rez the NK, but what's done is done .

[UncertainKitten]

Malth's A.R...

I was town in Malth's A.R., Pittbunny.

[UncertainKitten]

Just because I didn't know I was a toothless vig doesn't mean I don't know I was town!

I don't understand how a difference in play would lead you to believe I was town here.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I was functionally a doctor, but it was more the mechanic interested me and I KNEW we'd need to organize it. And of course, enough people got lazy so, guess what? Scum trampled us. Partially due to that disarray.

EDIT: In fact, I probably wasn't trying as hard in AR since I was a "vig", so I didn't have to convince anyone I was right.

[UncertainKitten]

Sleep cycle was a cool concept. It's hard to balance with longer deadlines though. Charging someone half the day to sleep is a good cost. Lengthening the day will greatly reduce their desire to play though, and probably default people to sleeping at night anyway.

Mildly surprised the mafia didn't have a counter to my sleep plan, though admittedly one would have difficulty verifying who stayed up, so that's probably why we refused it.

[UncertainKitten]

Tri-phase deep south could work, actually. It'd also probably make it easier for mafia to disguise their killing. You'd still need countermeasures but it wouldn't be as much of a stretch.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, claiming to have slept at night would imply you abandoned the sleep schedule. So that's probably the *ACTUAL* reason, but the post that worried me just gave me bad vibes, and I had to assign it to SOMETHING. I have a lot of trouble with that. When I DO actually catch scum my reasoning isn't exactly stellar because it's probably a collation of everything they'd done.

In fact, IIRC, I started out being relatively certain someone supporting my sleep plans was scum, and I was putting you on that list before D2, so you sleeping just confirmed it or something.