Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[LlamaFluff]

Looking at queue reveals who ??? probably is

What if I told you this was a completely irrelevant statement?

vote SaintKerrigan

[LlamaFluff]

Vote skyedoc

Invalid vote. There is no "skyedoc".

Obvscum. Knows the mafier and won't tell us, etc.

Im pretty sure the mod is not a player in this game

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what makes you say that syke is not a player?

I just dont think he is.

The rules explicitly state we can lynch him, Llama.

Unvote, vote: Sociopath

I know. I still dont think he is a player, if anything I think that ??? is able to talk through him and a lynch if him lynches ???.

anyways

unvote
vote sociopath

obligary bandwagon vote

[LlamaFluff]

Im a bit too curious to see what this does in a VC

Vote ???
FoS Nikanor

Someone didn't listen.

Invalid vote, you may not vote for that player at this time. Llamafluff recieves a point for rule violation.

Points aren't a good thing. Seriously.

We seem to be making some attempts to leave RVS and he is trying to keep it moving.

[LlamaFluff]

Secret stuff is secret!

@Mod - how many votes to lynch? May I vote for players who may not be in the game?

[LlamaFluff]

With 12 players it takes 7 to lynch. Go forth and vote before I KILL you.

LlamaFluff receives a point for stupidity and lack of reading ability.

Can you put votes required to lynch in future vote counts?
Can you include a "Not Voting" section?

I'm going to add that to the last vote count

@Nik - At least one player seems to have made a completely serious vote on you. You are making joke/random votes on the mod.

[LlamaFluff]

Are you talking about SP's vote? I could ask him to explain it... but he won't. I don't see how I could build off the post in which he votes for me, which means his post does nothing to derail us from the RVS.
How would you have responded to SP's vote in my position, Llama? Keep in mind that as me, you know that SocioPath wouldn't expand on his vote.

You answered your own question here. You say that he is refusing to explain the vote, so I would for one be putting a whole lot of pressure on the fact that he is not expanding on the vote. Trying to see if its serious, if it is for what reasons, etc. Randomly voting a new player (massive pet peeve of mine to start) is the last thing I would consider doing.

[LlamaFluff]

You say that he is refusing to explain the vote, so I would for one be putting a whole lot of pressure on the fact that he is not expanding on the vote. Trying to see if its serious, if it is for what reasons, etc. Randomly voting a new player (massive pet peeve of mine to start) is the last thing I would consider doing.

Oooor Nik knew exactly what he was doing when he posted his post.
And knew that by picking up on it, that I was actually being useful, hence the dumb comment about me being town.
Maybe that is why he doesn't need my vote on him explained: as he already knew why I voted.

Am I missing an inside joke between you two? I still dont see why you made that vote.

[LlamaFluff]

Reading is tech.
Conprehension is the future.

I really dont get it.

Was the vote on Nik random or not?

Anyway, MO and Spy picking up early town points

[LlamaFluff]

Was the vote on Nik random or not?

No.

I dont get it then. You must also remember subtlety is lost on me

And MO and Spy are always like that.

And they are still my town reads.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok... one more guess

You voted Nik on a small reason. He asked you why you were voting him, but said you were at least doing something productive so were slightly town. This in turn made you overturn what you had on him?

If thats wrong can you at least tell me what happened? I feel my reads are better when I actually know more about the thought process of players and Im not sure I have whats happening here right.

[LlamaFluff]

So Nik supports a V/LA vote while at the same time voting me for doing the same thing.

Ray wasnt V/LA. He just hadnt posted yet. Those are two different things.

Response: 5
Any Comment: Im guessing super swingy however

[LlamaFluff]

I would've made you "God on Sunday," the "resting" god, aka a vanilla townie.

heh

If thats wrong can you at least tell me what happened? I feel my reads are better when I actually know more about the thought process of players and Im not sure I have whats happening here right.

This smells like BS.

Unvote. Vote: LlamaFluff.

So you are saying im lying about how I scumhunt?

True, when there are more scums to find.

Do you think there are multiple groups in this game?

[LlamaFluff]

I have no reason to believe that, Llama. What SP said is true though given past games is what I meant.

Was wondering if it was a meta discussion or something that you thought was going on now. That answers it.

[LlamaFluff]

Actually, I'm saying that I don't like when people talk about their feeeeeelings. I find it scummy for no particular reason.

Ok... that doesnt change that knowing how people think helps my reads.

Want to see a response to my last post by SP before I decide what I do next.

[LlamaFluff]

Im pretty sure the mod is not a player in this game

Why don't you think that?

I just dont think mod is going to be a player in the game, the "12 votes in play" backs that up. I think there may be a decent chance that our player 12 is a voice of the mod player, but will get to that later if we have to.

Either way, I think that lynching the mod is a bad idea, as it will at very best slightly damage the town.

[LlamaFluff]

I just dont think mod is going to be a player in the game, the "12 votes in play" backs that up. I think there may be a decent chance that our player 12 is a voice of the mod player, but will get to that later if we have to.

Who says the mod wouldn't have a vote? This is a bastard game, after all.

That should make it 13 to lynch. Either way, mod text has said one thing that makes me think it could easily be a "voice of mod". Thats all on that for now though.

Its however many I damn well please to lynch .

[LlamaFluff]

Want to see a response to my last post by SP before I decide what I do next.

Wat.

I already pointed out that your reasoning for the vote on nik was based on a false assumption (RF was not on V/LA), apparently your reason for voting me was something along the lines of pressuring nik for NOT pressuring your vote. So me putting pressure on a vote based on incorrect information became a scumtell apparently.

As far as I can tell, you made a false assumption, at this point have been called on it, and are calling me scum for now pointing it out.

[LlamaFluff]

I already pointed out that your reasoning for the vote on nik was based on a false assumption (RF was not on V/LA), apparently your reason for voting me was something along the lines of pressuring nik for NOT pressuring your vote. So me putting pressure on a vote based on incorrect information became a scumtell apparently.

Is this true? I just kind of took SP's word for it.

I never saw anything about RF being V/LA, we saw the mod post something saying SK was but that was it.

[LlamaFluff]

SPS voted SK, not Ray. SP was saying that Nikanor's support of SPS' SK vote was suspicious, but Nikanor argues that he was referring to something completely different. Now that I've read Nikanor's post again in a new context, I see what he was getting at.

From what I have...

SPS voted SK (on V/LA)
SP votes RF (not on V/LA, but haddnt posted)
Nik commented on this fact while voting SP for the RF vote
SP votes Nik (revealed later for 'pressuring his RF (V/LA) vote while being fine with the SK (V/LA) vote)
Nik calls SP town for this
I ask why Nik didnt pressure the vote from SP
SP says im scum for asking this

[LlamaFluff]

I never saw anything about RF being V/LA

RF is a flaky flake.

Its not that he isn't V/LA. Its that he likely isn't in the game at all.
And I have done the same votes against him before.
And he did end up getting replaced.

And Nik was in that game.
So that might be what Nik is trying to get at.
Especially since the replacement caused Nik to lose.

So you compared flaky to V/LA? You also already said that it wasnt an in-joke between you and Nik, which at this point it apparently was.

My experience with RF is I think two games without him needing replacement, and me replacing him once by his request at that time he got pretty sick and had to replace out of all his games.

[LlamaFluff]

This line of thought is dumb and misleading. In-joke? Quit trying to lace posts with devenomizing words.

How is basing a (somewhat joking) vote on something that only Nik would know not an in-joke? I reacted to what looked like a baseless attack, and you responded as if I should have known of the event that I had no good way of knowing of.

Stop trying to fight Nik's non-existent battles, you aren't doing a very good job of it.
All it is doing is making you look worse.
And doesn't change my opinion of Nik.

Im not fighting his battles, or trying to change your opinion of Nik. I am trying to see what the basis of your vote right now is, since it appears to be soley based on things that there was no chance of me actually knowing.

Also again, how is V/LA (SK) the same thing as flaky (RF)?

[LlamaFluff]

This line of thought is dumb and misleading. In-joke? Quit trying to lace posts with devenomizing words.

How is basing a (somewhat joking) vote on something that only Nik would know not an in-joke? I reacted to what looked like a baseless attack, and you responded as if I should have known of the event that I had no good way of knowing of.

Its not a joke.
Flakers are annoying.
Stop undermining my actions by saying everything I do is a joke.

Ok fine, inside-information if you really insist upon it. What is not changing is that you were basing it on something that I did not, and could not have known, yet turning around and attacking me like I should have.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok fine, inside-information if you really insist upon it. What is not changing is that you were basing it on something that I did not, and could not have known, yet turning around and attacking me like I should have.

Nice misrep.
That is not what happened at all.

So what part of it is wrong? You keep saying "your wrong" and then refuse to explain anything clearly. I shouldnt have to spend four pages of the game guessing what convoluted reason you are voting me for.

[LlamaFluff]

I shouldnt have to spend four pages of the game guessing what convoluted reason you are voting me for.

Stop acting like its a requirement that should know such in the first place.

I dont have the problem with the vote that you initally hide reasoning for, but feel it eventually needs to be said. That said, im starting to think this is one of those situations where I let emotions (anger) get in the way of logic, and am going to reread and see if I cant come up with anything else.

[LlamaFluff]

Have midterms for final classes tomorrow and thursday. Little brother graduates HS this weekend. Wont have much time untill monday.

[LlamaFluff]

Quick skim of whats going on right now confuses me quite a bit, although UK being town you dont need an indepth read to figure out here. I think tomorrow night will be my best chance for getting caught up.

[LlamaFluff]

Well ok... why you guys manage to put up that many pages on the one day when I dont have the time to stay up with it I will never know but.


When the protect is revealed as fake is when stuff gets interesting. I do not at all understand the vote for the fake day protect from amish. Most fake actions are null tells to me, as was this one. The most they normally will accomplish is get a few small reactions, which we all know this one never got a chance to.

I can see the scum motivation for a fake day-doc, but also just as much, if not more town motivation, since its just ambiguous enough to get a pause out of scum when they have to make a kill, as well as instilling doubt about presence of a daykiller to scum. The action is not a scumtell in anyway to me.

Amish continues to ignore the fact that town at times will fake a day action (heck that one game he linked to had a fake day kill that caught scum) which I dont really get. I actually see more fake-actions from town then scum if memory serves, normally I will make slight breadcrumbs as VT if I want to draw the NK. While I DO agree that reactions from the protect probably woouldnt have been useful, it doesnt make it scummy if it makes scum think twice about who they target.

The "I give up" doesnt make sense to me. What happens next seems to at least be a queue as to why Amish is convinced beyond reason that SPS is scum. What Amish is missing is the following thought process for town

-I want to fake a day action
-I want to try faking a doctor so
--It would discourage any day vig from killing someone I think is town
--It may cause scum to have second thoughts about killing my target at night
--It may attract a NK to me and save a stronger role.
-Oh its been proven fake
-Lets go back to voting SP

That is what I thought SPSs thought process was.

few more pages to go

[LlamaFluff]

Was wondering if someone would point out the RC vote on SPS eventually. I actually prefer that wagon at first glance to Amished, the reasoning Amish gave for the vote just misses some points, but apart from that does make some sense. RC just seems to have had the fortune of not be active at the right time. Sort of a side point, but I do tend to agree that similar thought patterns come from shared alignments.

Broadcast: If the mod were to be lynched would that remove you from the game?

Anyone else notice that Broadcast aka Alpha managed to stop the stupid arguements though? Bonus points to him.

unvote
un-FoS
Vote RedCoyote
FoS RedCoyote

Also im 99% sure that I figured out the red-blue text thing, but actually think its better to not say what it is at this point. Oddest part is the only thing im certain is a lie that has been said in that text is something blue has said.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

for being unsure what he's trying to accomplish by with his "day protect" remark. I think Llama is doing a good enough job for himself, and I don't know why SPS felt the need to jump in and attach himself to him like that.

So this is bad. SPS is scum for randomly faking a daykill? Even if he has no good reason for faking a day kill I cant really come up with concrete reason why its anything but a subjective scumtell. Seems more like you are calling him scum for saying that I am town with *style* or something like that.

Like I said when I voted, I don't really get what value he's bringing to the game with it. Maybe it was just tongue-in-cheek, but why Llama? It just seemed kind of out of the blue.

So its scummy for being a random move and targeting me? I just really cant see why its in any way a scum tell to make a fake day action. What is the scum motivation over town motivation for it?

Lastly, I surrendered my position on the back of Llama pointing out the tangled web of V/LAs and absences that kind of plauged SP's quick draw position. I still don't really get a scummy vibe off of SP, but I've changed my mind in regards to how he arrived at Nikanorscum.

For clarities sake, this is you saying Nik is neutral read?

I've been racking my brain trying to figure out an angle to really back up any wagon on SPS, but there's really nothing there to vote on.

So SPS is town? What the heck changed there (apart from the berating of Amish for saying he was scum)? AtE also is a weak scumtell, I consider it more of a nulltell, or at best something to tack on to a case due to how some people like it.

Its been mentioned at this point "one of Amish-SK is scum" I would more say "one of Amish-RC-SK". It would be hard for more than one of them to be scum together, but I dont see all three town at this point.

What was your thought process on the whole SPS thing? It seems like you thought he was scum but changed that opinion at some wierd time, and are saying that the ones who say you wanted him lynched are lying about that. I didnt read that vote of yours (and two subsequent comments on reasoning) as pressure, so where did this change of heart occur?

[LlamaFluff]

@ LlamaFluff: You stated that you agreed with the SPS wagon more than the Amished wagon, and say RC just happened to not be active at the right time, but then you voted for RC in the same post, without any reasoning I could see. You did later post some questions for RC, but why did you vote for him in that earlier post?

Use of 'he' was refering to RC and not SPS there. Also why does it matter that I voted RC a full 15 minutes before I made my case? I had decided on who I was voting at that point, I just had to make my case and wanted it to be obvious where my vote was going if something happened to tie up my time.

[LlamaFluff]

What was your thought process on the whole SPS thing? It seems like you thought he was scum but changed that opinion at some wierd time, and are saying that the ones who say you wanted him lynched are lying about that. I didnt read that vote of yours (and two subsequent comments on reasoning) as pressure, so where did this change of heart occur?

I didn't really "change my opinion at some weird time", there was just a substantial gap between one day and the next (as you noted earlier) which I feel between.

I never had any intention on lynching SPS

, I only thought it was odd why he chose you specifically to "dayprotect". When he decided to attach himself to you (having been largely a non-factor in the game at that point to me),

that's necessarily suspicious to me

.

Im thinking you forgot a 'not' but if this is right can you explain the difference between the two a little to me. At least at what level of suspicion SPS actually reached.

Someone explain to me this "FoS" nonsense, because I think the Mod has all y'all on a wild goose chase with this. Is someone supposed to get an investigation or something?

Its something worth seeing if it does anything

@Alpha - Yes, that was what I was refering to. Good to know. Would you be able to answer if there is the possibility of being lied to in my role?

I would be able to answer.

[LlamaFluff]

@Alpha - Yes, that was what I was refering to. Good to know. Would you be able to answer if there is the possibility of being lied to in my role?

I would be able to answer.

@Alpha - Was I lied to in my role PM?

Extremely Likely.

@mod - Votecount please?

Will try and have something up pretty soon, this is finals week for me though so near the end im going to get pretty busy.

[LlamaFluff]

@Nik - Why is SK scum?

[LlamaFluff]

I don't know! My brain feels all fuzzy lately and I can't think properly. I'm just going to follow SocioPath around because I think he's town and I know he's a good scumhunter. :?

So Amish is town then or what?

Since all this stuff all you have done is vote Spy for not scumhunting (irony) while saying you like the SK AND amish wagons, and will go wherever the votes go, and then you decided (for no reason untill a few minutes ago) to go with the SK wagon.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't know! My brain feels all fuzzy lately and I can't think properly. I'm just going to follow SocioPath around because I think he's town and I know he's a good scumhunter. :?

So Amish is town then or what?

OBVIOUSLY NOT AS I DO NOT THINK ED IS TOWN.

Asked him not you. He is just following what the masses are doing making zero attempt to take a stand before its become obvious what the concensus is leaning towards.

[LlamaFluff]

Asked him not you.

I'm just going to follow SocioPath

SocioPath wrote:

Contrary to popular belief, english is my first language.

I know that he said he is going to follow you, im seeing if he has any clue what he is even following at this point, as there isnt much evidence that he knows what he is going to be voting SK for.

[LlamaFluff]

He doesn't need a reason as much as SK needs votes.

SO ILL LET IT SLIDE.

Humor me and make him answer. I think he really doesnt know without research. That concerns me a whole lot.

[LlamaFluff]

Humor me and make him answer.

THERE
HE DID
HAPPY?

Yep. I was right in my suspicions too apparently

[LlamaFluff]

Why yes MO, SK -IS- way too self concerned with his own survival to be town.

There is actually one other reason, but in this case its not going to be unique to him in any way, pretty sure he just hasnt realized that yet.

SK isnt a bad lynch, but I would still rather explore the Nik situation a bit more first.

[LlamaFluff]

My only real problem with lynching SP is my role. My role already suggests that this game is ungodly swingy and/or there are a lot of crap powers out there. I think that most of what will come from SP will continue to fall into one of these, most likely the latter, category. First instinct says that I would rather not lynch someone who is town for this reason, while the death would probably be helpful, I do not think it is as helpful as SP thinks. When everyone has something going for them to start, and addition would either cause the game to break under its own weight, or would be the equilivant of each of this pinata contaning rasins and pennies.

[LlamaFluff]

Also, Llama. Did anything happen to you last night?

Nothing that I know of, I still am missing a pinata present even, this sucks. Want to read back between SK and Nik.

[LlamaFluff]

Can we stop all going "lol role info" already and get back to scumhunting? Will get recaught up tomorrow.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Nik

On top of the fact that he should apparently be dead outside of MO being RBed (which I doubt) and Nik being protected (which I doubt moreso), there are a few other things that make me happy about this vote.

Oh hi.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

Spy isn't scumhunting. That's unlike him. I also get bad gut vibes from him.
I support the Amished and SK wagons and might hop on the bigger one later.

FoS: RedCoyote.

Right here we are a bit into the game, and Nik lines himself up for voting four different people. Spy for gut, Amish and SK for whatever others have been saying and RC for who knows from this post. Later he says he is more interested in the SK vote.

To be completely honest, I'd like to see RedCoyote and Spy hang first, in that order.
Reasons are because I'm psychic.
I'll defer to SP's lynch though because a) I'm usually wrong and b) he seems to actually know the reasons for which he finds people scummy.

He is going about it again here. Says that he wants a RC and Spy lynch, but also is willing to take a lynch of whoever SP says to lynch. Again, he is setting himself up for quite a few wagons, at least on who SP is saying, giving himself an excuse if they are town. At this point reading through Niks posts, there is zero way to tell what he thinks is scummy about these players, just who he thinks is scummy.

Unvote. Vote: SaintKerrigan.

I think that's the fourth vote on him? We have about 5 days left until deadline so we should speed this up.

Here is that bandwagon vote. It is a little later but finally shows up, still with no reasoning.

[LlamaFluff]

Can we stop all going "lol role info" already and get back to scumhunting? Will get recaught up tomorrow.

This is actually pretty scummy. I'm surprised I'm the first one to bring this up.

Role information this game has the potential to be amazingly complicated and hard to piece together without what is almost a mass claim.

What I pointed out with something that suggests that you should be dead (again, maybe not as trustable as other stuff) is a good spot to start today.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, are you getting any solid scumreads this game? Because I'm not.

I am getting solid town reads. You are part of the group that I have never much if any town read on. Looking through posts, I see the reasons for that.

Also this game might not be that bastardly, this is game IS very swingy. My role basically screams that fact.

[LlamaFluff]

Well, chances I have no idea what your role name is, or probably what most names are. Consider this me asking who is beetlejuice and what does unleashing the role mean? Only thing I can think of as "being let unleashed" would be a pandoras box refrence.

Roles on the otherhand are a different matter to me, I almost want to massclaim given that the chances that I can catch someone lying are actually somewhat high. I would have to be last to claim though if we did that, people would need to trust me there. It also would probably clear up role stuff.

I can not confirm if Nik is lying or not about his role. Nothing happened to me last night that I was told about.

[LlamaFluff]

They're all one-shot.
I used Showtime! on Llama and Spy last night.

Hmm?

So you have seven one shot actions and used one twice last night?

[LlamaFluff]

There is still a decent chance that massclaiming will do us good here, there is a lot of confusion over who did what last night that it can iron out. A lot of things happened last night, and my role is specifically designed to be able to catch scum fakeclaiming.

I am going to look back at SK, see what is going on there.

[LlamaFluff]

If we do massclaim, anyone who has not claimed does need to claim before me, otherwise it defeats the purpose of my role entirely. I think this means that UK, Spy, SPS and Ythan should claim prior to me for sure. Idealy everyone would claim before I do, but it is not as necessary since I think any adaption of claims on the others will be noticeable.

I vote massclaim.

[LlamaFluff]

Wait, I just thought of something.

Do the words Uu~ Uu~ mean anything to you?

Nope. Who my character is should be fairly easily guessable even though flavor is questionable.

Popcorn would be a good idea.

As long as I go last, or at least behind anyone who hasnt claimed, I am ok with it.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok. It's just at this point it should be obvious I'm looking for someone. No idea what happens if I find them. Honestly, I should probably know who it is but I don't know who else here is a Seacatz fan.

You might've been lied to, just like Llama probably was?

I am not entirely sure that i was lied to in my role. I am pretty sure I was not despite a little bit of vauge answers to a question. I did see at least one lie from the mod though in the thread that was in blue IIRC.

I think someone just needs to start a massclaim. I vote RC does.

While we wait...

unvote

[LlamaFluff]

Lying mods make for a fun game right?

If he lied in my role I am going to be depressed, since there is really only one point to having me in the game. I have a hard time getting over flavor though. Almost reads like he wanted my role to be in the game and tried to force my character to fit it. I will go into quiet mode untill we finish massclaim now, then I will bust anyone who is lying.

[LlamaFluff]

I kinda put my thing on hold until we get this sorted out. But this thread is lagging.

We are just waiting for RC to claim at this point, with role and flavor, and then start popcorning. For the record my role did not get corrupted in transition.

[LlamaFluff]

Ten days to deadline, we need to pick it up here.

[LlamaFluff]

I would prefer not to give my top two until massclaim ends given how my role can catch scum in claims. No accidental hints to someone having already proven themselves mafia or not.

[LlamaFluff]

unFoS
FoS SaintKerrigan

lazes

[LlamaFluff]

EBWOP: In fact, you'd know that if you were actually paying attention.

Why are you lying?

Actually, SPS asked for Nik to claim if anything happened to him. Spy should claim though.

We need orginization for claim method.

Spy
UK
Ythan
Amish
SC
Myself

Nik needs to claim if anything has happened to him in his next post. Lets go.

[LlamaFluff]

UK does not need to immediately claim at this point, but may as well since the chance of any remaining player being caught by my role is low if I picked up thier soft-claims correctly.

[LlamaFluff]

Everyone who has not claimed needs to ASAP, we are almost at a point where I can claim safely since most remaining non-claimed people have breadcrumbed roles such that I don't think I can counter them.

Deadline fast approaches.

[LlamaFluff]

For my full-claim: I'm Yosarian (from Catch-22); since people are out to get me and my friends, I try my best (and did a damn good job of it N1 I think) to prevent kills.

I also had Guy Montag on my list, but he was my 2nd choice (yos was 3rd). Beetlejuice and anything that relates to japan were not on my list.

So you are a doc?

[LlamaFluff]

That leaves Ythan and then me. I am sure enough that my role will not catch Ythan that I will claim before him if he has not by tomorrow afternoon.

[LlamaFluff]

I will round out claims in the meantime, and as Ythan guessed, I am my avatar, Kovu, Emo Lion.

Paraphrasing flavor, being that I am emo I spend all my time being depressed so have not learned to be useful. I do know that everyone else is useful in at least one way. I am called "loner vanilla" but have heard it refered to as cursed vanilla in the past.

Basically it means that no one is a Vanilla Townie, im the closest there is. I was hoping that at least one scum would either have gotten a questionable role, or just taken the easy way out and claimed vanilla allowing me to catch them.

Can point to crumbs later if people want me to.

[LlamaFluff]

Do you know role names or just that everyone has powers?

I know that everyone has some ability, either active or passive.

Will post crumbs tomorrow, I am going to sleep now. They arent going anywhere.

[LlamaFluff]

I did not hint at my role name. Saw no point to since flavor appeared as forced as it was.

Response: 5
Any Comment: Im guessing super swingy however

In response to "How balanced is the game?". I knew there were a lot of roles, so I guessed moderately balanced. Also knowing that everyone has something going for them is why I said the game would be swingy. Ideal actions from town could likely have won it fast, and horrible actions result in shooting ourselves in the foot.

I would've made you "God on Sunday," the "resting" god, aka a vanilla townie.

heh

I took the time to laugh at this since I know it was a lie. I mentioned that blue text has lied to a player at least once later.

Oddest part is the only thing im certain is a lie that has been said in that text is something blue has said.

Can we stop all going "lol role info" already and get back to scumhunting? Will get recaught up tomorrow.

Me getting frustrated with all the claims of role information, since there are a whole lot of them I was afraid that some information may be bad and only be realized as such post massclaim.

Role information this game has the potential to be amazingly complicated and hard to piece together without what is almost a mass claim.

Again.

Also this game might not be that bastardly, this is game IS very swingy. My role basically screams that fact.

Another hint that there are a lot of roles in this game making it swingy.

I think my thoughts around massclaim are self-explanitory.

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote

(if needed)

Vote: Nikanor

I refer you back to my original post on him. Plus he is lurking pretty hard right now, Nik says that lurking is a scum tell for him, and he is doing it now.

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote

(if needed)

Vote: Nikanor

I refer you back to my original post on him. Plus he is lurking pretty hard right now, Nik says that lurking is a scum tell for him, and he is doing it now.

I should clarify that by lurking I mean "has basically only been talking about roles". He is posting, just not contributing much.

Why is UK best lynch?
Why is Spy second best?

[LlamaFluff]

Actually, let me go ahead and

unvote

. I'll

vote: SaintKerrigan

because this "weakened" thing might mean it takes less people to lynch him. If the deadline is ~30 hours away then we need all the help we can get.

This also may work

FoS Nik

I would vote SK to ensure a lynch, although they are not my prefered vote.

[LlamaFluff]

Let's go over why I should win this election for something.

First, look at me, im so cute and borderline emo. How can you say no to a face like that? I know its a big picture, but it magnifies my physical qualifications for the job.



Second, have I mentioned how adorably emo I am?

Third, either RC or SK would be dying if it was my choice as to who dies. May be jumping to conclusion but this sounds kingmakerish.

Fourth, Lambda loves me. I do smell of justice, and of cuteness. People tell me they smell similar.

@mod

- Can you self-vote for electing?

Yes

[LlamaFluff]

Elect: LlamaFluff

Ythan is an acceptable nomination, Amished a little less so, but decent. Thats all I am happy with getting elected.

Kovu-Batman 2010.

[LlamaFluff]

Winning Smile Time



Checking to see if I can claim govenor powers now.

[LlamaFluff]

I can help you guys out a bit here. Newfound powers are fun.

Execute: SK

[LlamaFluff]

Oh also it is not day ending. I just had to use it at closest five days to deadline.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok so apparently I get my to know my two powers at E-1 or something, not sure why but ok. Need one more vote. Will put up stuff though in the meantime.

[LlamaFluff]

@SK - Some of the points that Ythan has raised against you are decent point, other points of his are more or less, crap. On a whole though, you do read as scummy, and moreso then Ythan does. The race between you and RC is very tight, if my kill was not day ending, it would be a whole lot tighter then it really appears to be from a standpoint that is not mine. I will not daykill without outlining a case first. That much I will promise you.

I'm Beatrice, the Golden Witch (for real this time :O!)
I am a town time warper.
I'm able to delay the action of a player by one night!

Can you guess who I targetted last night? If you can't, it was Saint Kerrigan.

Just remembered this. Going to look into this, everyone else should too. Two kills showing up AFTER the SK died makes no sense.

If she targeted MO then it really doesn't matter, but if she went for scum it can explain why two kills happened.

Also I may be very busy this week. Not sure yet but it has a lot of potential to be.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok see now I feel stupid.

I read that as "It wasn't SK".

[LlamaFluff]

@ Llama: Could you detail more what makes you think I'm scummy?

And seriously, guys, would you

please

stop ignoring my case against Ythan and tell me why you don't like it? It's the least you can do before you kill me.

Exasperated sigh.

I will do all of this eventually. Seriously. My word on this is better then most peoples as I have the daykill and will not be able to just delay it forever. If my estimation of how busy I am is wrong, it might be as early as tomorrow. If not, thursday/friday/saturday is more likely.

[LlamaFluff]

Will try and start putting something up on SK now, even though I think enough of the case can be boiled down to "targeted N1 by UK".

How else does two kills happen when the SK is dead? I have been running it over in my mind, and even if someone is lying about their role, it would require MO to have been a delayed SK or something like that. Way too many convienent things would have needed to occur. Plus SKs claim is one of the easier ones to hide behind (albeit none are really proveable), can just target someone and if gets tracked could even fall back on "I guess action A was a kill".

[LlamaFluff]

Has anyone posting not cast an election vote?

Whats this? What do I have to do?

Vote me and I get to use my govenor powers starting today. Vote someone else and I am not allowed to use them untill tomorrow, assuming I am alive tomorrow.

[LlamaFluff]

@ Llama: One of my abilities could have been a kill, yes (redirected since none of the people I've targeted have died). It could also have been someone else's pinata gift. Staking my guilt based on incomplete role info speculation, in my opinion, is a mistake. Could you do me a favor and hold off on your kill until Amished announces who he redirected?

Of course I will, even though I am not sure what it changes since he claimed night one actions and did not direct away from you iirc.

Given my pinata gift, I doubt a kill would be one of them. I think my gift actually is useless, although proveable that it exists. May use it pretty soon just to be safe.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, do you know all of your abilities should you be elected? Also did you ever tell me if the execute was a day kill or a quick-lynch ability?

I have been told of two. After talking to the mod it sounds like that is all I will get.

Also I lied. I do not get a daykill. Hoped to get a reaction from SK pointing either way, or scum delcaring a win if he was town.

I get the power to bring someones point total to zero, and the ability to reset the votecount (it does have to be 5+ days to deadline though).

[LlamaFluff]

Lol what gay powers.

I know really. Was at least hoping for standard govenor.

SK/RC still is a somewhat annoying thing to me.

If the whole situation regarding the UK action really was not something to be considered at this point, I think I would be advocating a RC over SK lynch right now. There just is an uncanny ammount of role blocking power in this game. UK, RC and Spy? They are all different (delay, random target, jail), but three that effect the kill seems a bit too much.

I would lean to just RC or Spy and SK together at this point. RC has more specific partners, I think it would have to be ooba and ythan unless someone bussed RC at some point. That or there are two blocking powers on scum which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Spy-SK would probably have a last member of Amish at this point, although again bussing would have needed to occur.

Going to think about this, but given the powers that are out there I see zero way for SK to not be scum. Two kills today just feels wrong given only one initally. Actually wait.... im an idiot.

If SK was delayed N1, how did MO die?

Simple answer would be that someone else killed MO. Amish apparently had nothing to do with it.

Does this really mean there are three killing groups in this game?

Has to right?

Night two....

UK and SC claimed roles that could not kill

Amished did ???
Llama did nothing
Spy jailed SK
SK was blocked
Ythan did ???
RC blocked ???
SPS/ooba did nothing (?)

That does not help.

I think that we have to be dealing with two group though, as nothing else explains two kills.

The two that *may* have been able to kill would have been SK and Nik, Nik was dead, SK was blocked.

Damn this complicated things.

Crap crap crap.

This eliminates one of the things against SK, although he is a top couple either way. RC I am going to take another look at now though, since it looks like both could be scum here (and I wouldn't be suprised by it).

Oh this game is just a million hillarious things.

Anyone else see any way for last night without two anti-town groups alive?

Given my "lots of roleblockers" thing, I would say at least two of RC/Spy/SK are scum here, if not all three of them. Two have claimed RB varients, one that can never be responsable for a convienently town target, the other just a JK so not as bad, although it gives incentive to target town to protect them. SK still does not come out smelling like roses, but I need to do some reevaluating here I believe.

[LlamaFluff]

You two, ignore eachother for one second and pay attention to me.

Do you think what I said about the N2 kill thing makes sense?

Who did Spy blocked N1? I remember him saying SK N2 but I forget who was first night.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not seeing your post come together into a single point at any one place, it just looks like you were meandering about and posting thought to thought. Concision?

If UK delayed SK-scum submitting a kill, how did MO die? Killing himself?

If SK is scum and his partner killed MO, there would not be two kills last night (as no delayed SK kill existed). This means there has to be two killing roles remaining, and because no one could have actually made a kill (I think) we are dealing with two scum groups.

----on to thoughts----

First instinct says RC is scummiest role since "random RB" would let him do whatever he wanted as scum with no reprecussions. That and he reads funny to me, a lot like plege of alliegence where I called him as scum correctly.

---preview edit---

I think there are multiple groups. MO had to die somehow. Apparently SPS and SK could not have made the kill. Someone else did.

Going to go into ramble mode since I can't keep track of my own thoughts.

~Night one~
X killed MO
MO got blocked or killed SPS.

~Night two~
X killed ???
Y killed ???

For Y to be SK, there needs to be three killing groups, or a group that gets two kills a night.

SK is not scum due to the delay. It makes no sense.

FoS RC

Since he is my top pick for now, but I will take the time to reevaluate SK and Spy later on.

[LlamaFluff]

So SK thinks there are two scum teams. Maybe he's not lying about suspecting me if he thinks I'm on the one he's not!

I agree with him that there are two teams.

I see no way that there are not outside of MO somehow killing himself.

[LlamaFluff]

There just is an uncanny ammount of role blocking power in this game. UK, RC and Spy? They are all different (delay, random target, jail), but three that effect the kill seems a bit too much.

I agree with your sentiments, although I don't understand how Spyrex is somehow cleaner in your book. I'll put my value in this game up against his any day of the week.

Activity yes, you are beating him. I read you as slightly scummy, although this is the first time I have ever had a very hard time reading spy. While he is not hitting his big scumtells, he is missing most of his towntells, especially the big ones. I would be OK with a spy wagon, but yourself and SK are a little better of a pick to me.

For Y to be SK, there needs to be three killing groups, or a group that gets two kills a night.

SK is not scum due to the delay. It makes no sense.

Wait, explain to me how this isn't possible. UK only got to use her night action once, correct? That was during N1. This means that she delayed SK, and we only had one kill during that night. She died the next night, and there were now two kills during last night. What part of this doesn't make sense? Assuming SK is scum, his kill that was meant for N1 was just delayed to N2, right?[/quote]

If SK was the member of the scum making the kill N1, MO could not have died. Someone killed MO. It was not SK. It was not SPS.

MOs kill was not delayed, so it was apparently blocked by either RC or Spy saved SPS.

Next night two die. There are no delayed kills as proven above, meaning there are two killing groups.

If SK was delayed N1 someone else killed MO. I am going to discount him committing suicide.

[LlamaFluff]

Spy is not reading. That is something I have never seen him doing.

Reading over RC, SK and Spy. I will be voting one of those three today.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not reading in depth for sure and I've been fairly clear about that?

What is the super secret thing I've missed though?

Fairly essential thing regarding govenor powers.

Also I lied. I do not get a daykill. Hoped to get a reaction from SK pointing either way, or scum delcaring a win if he was town.

I get the power to bring someones point total to zero, and the ability to reset the votecount (it does have to be 5+ days to deadline though).

I do not get a daykill, or any super awesome powers really.

[LlamaFluff]

Scum Read Strength	Does Not Work With	Works Ok with, leaning No	Works OK with, leaning Yes	Works Well With
RedCoyote	Amished	SaintKerrigan, Ythan	No One	ooba, SpyreX
SaintKerrigan	Ythan, ooba	RedCoyote, SpyreX	Amished	No One
SpyreX	No One	ooba, SaintKerrigan	Ythan, Amished	RedCoyote
ooba	SaintKerrigan	SpyreX	Amished, Ythan	RedCoyote
Ythan	SaintKerrigan	RedCoyote, Amished	SpyreX, ooba	No One
Amished	RedCoyote	Ythan	SaintKerrigan, ooba, SpyreX	No One

Crap that took a long time to code.

Some things I took away from this is that apart from the issue of both being roleblockers, RC and Spy both looks scummy and even able to work together. A pair of roleblocker varients does not seem like something that would be on one team.

SK looks a whole lot less appealing as a lynch as well, since the only one who I see sorta working with him is my best town read (albiet Ythan and Amish are close together). If SK is scum he has been getting bussed along the way.

If this is one three man team, I think it is: RedCoyote, SpyreX/SK and ooba.

If it is two teams: Team A - RedCoyote and ooba. Team B - SpyreX and Ythan/Amish

Currently given all this stuff, I lean to a RC lynch. Will back it up with facts later on.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote RedCoyote

I would vote spy at deadline as I think they are both probably scum, but this is more likely to net scum and give more information.

Dammit, Llama. I actually have to go back and work on this now.

SPS voted SK, not Ray. SP was saying that Nikanor's support of SPS' SK vote was suspicious, but Nikanor argues that he was referring to something completely different. Now that I've read Nikanor's post again in a new context, I see what he was getting at.

Early on this is about the whole confusion over a few players. RC notes that there is something going on, says that he will reevaluate the situation, and he never did. Instead he moved on to a wierd thing about SPS.

Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

for being unsure what he's trying to accomplish by with his "day protect" remark. I think Llama is doing a good enough job for himself, and I don't know why SPS felt the need to jump in and attach himself to him like that.

This rubs me wrong not only because it is harping on a weak point, but also because he is ignoring the aformentioned thing that he removed his inital vote for, without ever coming to any conclusion. The SPS day protect is eventually summarized as "out of the blue".

Next move for him is

Why aren't you scumhunting? Why are you going for "easy targets". That really aren't. You're not looking for actually scummy, you're looking for textbook scummy to see what shit you can get past us. Add that to knowing too much, and for the time being I'm pretty sure you're scum.

You know, I was trying to find a way to vote you, UK, but I think this is a pretty good observation. I'm changing my mind about you. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out an angle to really back up any wagon on SPS, but there's really nothing there to vote on.

But what seals the deal is your post 198.

Unvote; vote: Amished

<snip>

Here comes the AtE!

He agrees with UK that he is not really doing much but attempting to provide textbook tells which he seems to not like given his response, then he goes on to apply another "textbook tell" of AtE on Amish.

So at this point he has never made a concrete idea on the early point of SP-Nik, called SPS scum for faking a day kill then recended it, and now is voting for AtE. RC is not scumhunting here, he is just lobbing small tells up and moving on when someone shoots them down.

If we know Amish visited someone last night, according to SC, then why shouldn't we take a chance on him? Going with the odds that not everyone here has a night action each night, and with the odds that the scumteam probably have more night actions than just a kill, I'd say we have a fair shot with our friend Amish here. I think he's been pretty reluctant to tell us exactly what went on. I can sort of understand this, but when you've been outted as a power role, then you may as well give us the goods. Amish might be hesitant because he's kind of feeling out the town's reactions rather than trying to be forthcoming.

Starting the next day, we see RC starting to advocate a lynch of Amish because he used a night action, and did not want to claim what he did the previous night, which apparently made him scum. I see no way someone having a night action makes them scum, possibly this is more exaggerated from my standpoint of knowing at this point that everyone had a role, but it looks like a huge streach to either get a claim out of Amish, and/or get a lynch of a PR.

This gets dropped because

A Bus Driver/Redirector sounds like a role the Mod would use for a game like this, but then again, you could've been covering your ass in case SC snuck up on you with a "I saw you visit magnus".

I am not sure why that makes him town, I have used a scum driver in a game of mine before so know it is not out of the question. The oddest thing here is what RC adds on to this, which is that he "feels better" about Amish. If he felt better about him then in D1, the push on him for having a night action makes no sense, unless a driver claim made him obv-town or something to that extent.

All for now. Will try and finish this tonight.

[LlamaFluff]

In the absence of a Ythan lynch, I'd rather push Spyrex over RC. Spyrex has not been selling me on his RC push.

Dont completely ignore my push against him or anything.

Will get responses to responses and other points up tonight, maybe, I hope. Busy weekend.

[LlamaFluff]

ooba and Amish need to vote.

Also my modem died and given that I am moving in a few weeks to a place that already has one, I am not going to spend the money to replace it, and instead just bring my laptop to class and hang out leaching schools wireless daily. So limited access, and most likely no access weekends untill I fix the modem or move.

[LlamaFluff]

Anyone good at codes? I heard from a reliable source, a VERY reliable source that the code is important for us to figure out in order to not lose.

Actions from Amish? Anything from ooba?

[LlamaFluff]

Anyone good at codes? I heard from a reliable source, a VERY reliable source that the code is important for us to figure out in order to not lose.

Actions from Amish? Anything from ooba?

You want me to try and break the code???

That would be nice. Words and letters are not up my ally thinking wise, very bad with anything past exceedingly simple codes, according to the source this should be obvious as well

RedCoyote - 4 - SpyreX, LlamaFluff, Ythan, Amished

I'd wager one of LF or Amished is scum ..

Or yourself, given my iso 88 I lean Amish however, especially how he is an outside suspect at being partners with everyone at this point. Not going to vote now though, as I would be shocked if this is not some kind of lylo situation. Spys partner should claim if the hit L-1.

Does anyone have any points? It would be a way to prove one of my gov powers here.

[LlamaFluff]

Actually as I think about it, I cant (technically) mislynch today it this was a wierd 7(+1):2:2:1 setup. Eli is confirmed town through Ythan. So that means Amish, SK and ooba are all scum. It just is a matter of lynching whoever isnt scum with Spy, which I will look into this weekend.

[LlamaFluff]

Actually as I think about it, I cant (technically) mislynch today it this was a wierd 7(+1):2:2:1 setup. Eli is confirmed town through Ythan. So that means Amish, SK and ooba are all scum. It just is a matter of lynching whoever isnt scum with Spy, which I will look into this weekend.

Any reason why you think its 2:2 apart from the "Red Mafia" flip?

Two kills, continues to back up what I thought yesterday. Unless you guessed vig, were right, and killed Spy last night if that is what you are hinting at here.

Also I lean to SK-Amish and Spy-ooba at this point, as SK-ooba is a very hard pair to make work, and SK-Spy is a bit of a streach.

[LlamaFluff]

and SK-Spy is a bit of a streach.

Why so?

Spy was slightly encouraging me to take a shot at SK when I claimed to have a kill ability. He also never realized when I said that I did not have a kill ability, I would think scum would pay enough attention to realize if someone has a daykill or not that is aimed at a partner.

Also there is the fact that SK started a counterwagon to RC on Spy.

Almost willing to vote SK simply for the fact that I see no way of him being the partner to Spy that could cost us the game today, and given what I see from the setup he would have to be scum.

What is the code pattern though? I really am not seeing it here.

[LlamaFluff]

Also I am interested to see if this will revive Nik or something...

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice

[LlamaFluff]

Why does the setup make me scum, Llama?

Right now I am town, and unless Ythan was lied to, as massive bastard modding is in place, Eli is town. That means that this was a 7+1:2:2:1 setup, and that it is now a 2:2:1 setup. That means that scum is SK, ooba and Amish. If we lynch non-Spy partner out of the three of those, game continues, if we lynch spy partner, we lost. It is just a matter of lynching who works with spy the least today.

Have not heard if my Nik chant did anything yet.

[LlamaFluff]

...unless Ythan was lied to, as massive bastard modding is in place, Eli is town.

My role PM does not explicitly say that their faction will be the same as mine but I assume so.

Unless Ythan later stated that the mod told him his replacement was town, I see no guarantee that Elli is the same alignment as Ythan. Also, I doubt that you're town at the moment.

I thought that Ythan said that his replacement was guarenteed town at some point, will have to look back through for that. Also I assumed as much from your posts earlier, and your posts yesterday about your read on me. Will just have to prove that wrong the old fashioned way here.

Amish vote for Ythan just means that he is not scum with you, since he would have gone for you if govenor was any type of a daykill, cop, vig etc power. Ythan was actually the safest place for scum to lay down a vote if they are not with you given how tunneled he was on you. Voting me would have been far riskier since I have been a little more scattered with my suspicions.

Actually, it could also theoretically be 2 Mafia, 1 SK, 2 Town today. The main reason I got behind the two-scumteam theory was to explain why Ythan and Spyrex could both be scum but working against each other. Now that Ythan isn't scum, it could just as easily be an SK kill as a mafia kill. Ooba's claimed ability set makes him a likely SK suspect. (Yes, I know the mod's Red Mafia reveal argues against this. But who's to say that isn't a red herring?)

I would not be shocked, but I would doubt that there is a second serial killer in this game. Unless I just revived Nik, I still say this is lylo. Even if I did, I think this is more likely 8:2:2:1. It fits with my reliable source basically guarnteing a town loss if scum figured out what the code ment first. Only way I see a 9:2:1:1 is if someone was a SK until Eli just joined their team, a massive streach.

[LlamaFluff]

Skimming mod isos there was like only one wagon everyday and led to the lynch, do i have that right?

Not really.

Day one there was a lot of talk going all over the place, and near the end of the day SP claimed and said that it was in the town best interest to lynch him, everyone gave up what they were doing and obliged.

Nik wagon yes, that is basically correct. I think that Nik would have been lynched day one if SP did not claim however.

Day three had Ythan and SK fighting between themselves for a long time, I eventually started a wagon not on either of them (RC) and after it became obvious that SK and Ythan were not getting lynched, some counter action showed on Spy, but RC was lynched.

You should claim too, we already massclaimed.

We have remaining...

SaintKerrigan - Has two actions, does not know what either do
Amished - Redirector
ooba - Has to guess role to be able to use it, has not figured it out last I heard
Me - Was told day one that no VTs existed, I have gov powers from election (reset votes + remove points from a player)
You - ?????? Born from Ythan

[LlamaFluff]

If I had to guess you would be Robin, just fits flavor.

[LlamaFluff]

Amish vote for Ythan just means that he is not scum with you, since he would have gone for you if govenor was any type of a daykill, cop, vig etc power. Ythan was actually the safest place for scum to lay down a vote if they are not with you given how tunneled he was on you. Voting me would have been far riskier since I have been a little more scattered with my suspicions.

Amished was one of the earliest, if not

the

earliest, people to elect-vote after the mod said elect-votes were permanent. With that in mind, it seems less likely to me that Amished would elect someone who wasn't his partner right away.

Sorta. If you are able to elect someone who is not your partner and will kill someone who is not your partner, it is even better though. You do not want your partner at the center of attention, especially in a game that appears to have multiple anti-town groups. It makes people scrutinize thier choice, and lables them as likely town, which may draw kills. I would prefer to elect a player that is not scum with me and will kill someone who is not scum with me then my partner in an instant as scum, I think everyone in this game is smart enough to do that as well.

I would be shocked if Amish was your partner since a Ythan vote could have gotten you killed while he gets no credit for the bus.

[LlamaFluff]

FoS ooba

My top pick for someone who is not Spys partner at this point. Have a hard time believing that Eli is anti-town without being third party at this point.

[LlamaFluff]

What put Ooba over me, Llama?

SPS was the first to bus the Spy not making sense targeting him claim. Also Spy said he targeted him N1, I do not think that they would RB their own partner N1 since SPS was not a NK threat.

He makes the least sense as a Spy partner out of everyone, outside of extreme bastardly play I think he almost has to be scum. I almost think the pairing here are ooba-SK and Amish-Spy, but ooba-SK does not make total sense. I think that ooba is best starting move though.

Also I will take off Eli's point as of this post in order to prevent any possible shenannigans stemming from him having points.

[LlamaFluff]

What are points and why can Llama take them off? >.>

Points are "bad". One of my govenor powers was to take all points of someone else. Also I have no points since my pinata gift was remove all of your own points.

You also point out why ooba-Spy are not partners. That is just more evidence for that. Also all the more reason ooba is part of scum B to me.

@SK - Who do you think is Spys partner? What do you think Elis alignment is? What do you think the setup right now is?

[LlamaFluff]

I figured he would be telling the truth due to the JK aspect of what he claimed allowing people to know they were RBed. I could see him lying though I guess, just do not think he is due to the JK ability possibly giving him away.

Do you agree that Spy-ooba makes zero sense though?

Also you are basically process of elimination. Ooba does not work at all, SK does not work all that well, which just leaves you and Eli, and I think that Eli is town for WIFOM reasons.

Either way I am not at all interested in lynching Spys partner today. I would rather lynch the otherscum out there (which there has to be). Also I apparently my revive attempt on Nik did nothing.

[LlamaFluff]

The fact that Llama avoided the SP wagon when he said everyone would get new abilities (his reasoning was that most new abilities would be crap) and was on the other two wagons leads to think he is the SK.

You are trying to make me look like I was random wagoning here. I already said why the SP wagon was not going to be worth it (my role supported this guess, and appears to have been correct), but I was one of the biggest pushers of the Nik wagon, and started the entire RC wagon instead of lynching either SK or Ythan.

I'd like everyone to answer this: If you could lynch two players today, who would they be. (exactly two please). If it wasn't obvious, my answer would be SK, LLama.

ooba and I lean Amish, as if Eli is scum, I can see Amish work with ooba and Spy better then SK.

[LlamaFluff]

@ Llama: I thought you didn't think Elli was likely scum. Why is Elli scum a deciding factor for putting Amished as #2.

I do not think he is scum. In an ultra worse case scenario with him being scum, Amish is the best second pick which is why I said it.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, why don't you want to lynch Spy's partner >.> I'm missing the reason.
Oh wait nevermind i get it crosskills etc.

No one claiming vig means at least two anti-town killers alive, probably a second group + spys partner. If you are town that essentially made this a 8:2:2:1 game, which can be tweaked to balance. I think a lynch of spys partner would end the game for scum B.

I will probably vote ooba today. I will not vote Eli or SK, basically 100% sure that one of them is the last town.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote ooba

I think this is the correct move. Will back it up tomorrow after lecture but want to get something going early enough to use my power if at all possible.

[LlamaFluff]

TOO LATE IT'S GAME OVEEEEEEEEEER

Seriously?

Seriously???

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Eli

Depending on mod ruling, that lynch may not have happened due to the vote reset thing.

Assuming Amish is scum and Eli is third party, he can try and redirect a kill to Eli and kill him himself in attempt to for a town win in hopes that Eli only has one shot NK immunity.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

Lets see a VC. Damn your trap canceling out my trap Eli. I figured by throwing out a weak vote I could draw a scum quickhammer and hopefully figure out something.

[LlamaFluff]

To simplify what happened for everyone

1) I voted ooba to try and draw a quickhammer attempt if he was town
2) ooba selfvoted
3) I reset the votes
4) Eli voted ooba to fakehammer him

So ooba looks probably town from all of this. Eli still looks town from this.

I now sortof lean to Amish left as the partner to Spy, since SK doesnt make much sense, but that does not explain a distinct lack of kills that we have been having.

Still leaves the question of where the second kill is coming from though.

[LlamaFluff]

So lets see...

ooba cant be last member of a scumteam, or a SK at this point. That probably means that he is town at this point, although it makes the whole Eli thing even more confusing. Either way, we are not lynching ooba today, only way he is scum is if he is in a three man group, which I doubt exists.

Amish is probably scum with Spy at this point, still.

That leaves SK who is probably other scum, this holds true if other scum is an individual, or is other scum is a SK.

Eli remains a wildcard. One slight problem with his voteless claim is how hard it would be to test it in a lylo situation. He could have really tried to hammer ooba for the win if he had a vote, and the only way scum-Eli would ever get caught is if we forced him to hammer a partner. I have a very hard time making him scum logically, but PoE almost makes him have to be scum (lest ooba-SK team is self-destructing). Not sure, again though not voting him today.

Also still not voting Amish as I think that he is Spys partner, and it will likely end the game if the other kills are coming from another two member faction.

So consider this intent to vote SK.

[LlamaFluff]

I agree with above except I think SK is Spy's partner ...

I just do not see that because yesterday when I started a wagon on RC, SK responded with one on Spy, that had a good chance of actually going through.

[LlamaFluff]

ooba cant be last member of a scumteam, or a SK at this point. That probably means that he is town at this point, although it makes the whole Eli thing even more confusing. Either way, we are not lynching ooba today, only way he is scum is if he is in a three man group, which I doubt exists.

You're gonna have to explain this to me. What, specifically, gives you the idea that Ooba is town, and why? As mentioned to Ooba, I'm not seeing it at all. Just because he goes "bah, go town!" after a lynch does not make him town.

He selfvoted. If he was the last member of a scumteam that would mean that he loses. So he is not a member of a two man team with Spy, and he is not a SK. He probably is not a member of a three man including Spy, or a two man not including him either.

Also, why is Amished Spy's partner, again?

Will get on this, going to be busier soon though. My last summer class has a final this friday, I help my little brother move in for his freshman year in college saturday, and my next semester starts monday.

Look at the end of day votecounts yesterday. RCs wagon was me, ythan, spy and amish. You voted Spy, ooba declared intention to vote him (plus the thing Eli pointed out). I know im not spys partner, ythan well obv, ooba is not from what Eli said, you are not for starting a rival wagon to RC on Spy, Eli physically *could* be, but pointing out the ooba thing eliminates someone from the pool, which I do not see happening.

Process of Elimination is a bitch. Because of that though I am not voting Amish. I think it will lose us the game, despite lynching scum.

Consider this an "intent to vote SK" post.

[LlamaFluff]

Also SK - Who is partner(s) with Spy?

Who is the other anti-town force(s)?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what exactly does the governer thing that you won give you? One Vote counts cancel and deleting points or more stuff? And do you have a nugget in thread somewhere that makes it less likely to be Spy buddy. I Know if you're not that you know but...yeah.

Govenor gave me the vote resets and the deleting of others point thing. Thats it.

Nothing out there. Most of the early game I figured Spy was probably town. Yesterday I thought he could be scum, but figured RC was much more likely scum so went and started that wagon.

Sociopath wanted to die rite? Did anything come out of that. >.>

SP gave everyone a "gift". Most people say theres are not good. Mine was getting rid of all the points I had accumulated.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote: LlamaFluff

Going with my earlier read ...

So you are voting me because I am scum with Spy? You already claimed that I am not part of a bigger team.

Vote SK

[LlamaFluff]

So as last member of a scum team/third party I used an action that pulled you off L-1?

[LlamaFluff]

So would this be a good time to say that I reset the votes when three people got votes at the same time?

[LlamaFluff]

Nothing, but with three different people having a vote, me included, I knew it could result in a quickhammer if there was a multi-player group left.

What do you think SK is?

[LlamaFluff]

Just want to know what Amish thinks SK is. If SK is part of a multi-scum team, Spys partner, SK (lol).

I wiped the votes because votes were all over the place, and a mislynch with a two-man team costs us the game.

[LlamaFluff]

grrrrrr

Despite losing I am happy with my play this game.

Came up with a fakeclaim D2 that started a massclaim very early into the game. Got a few of the most dangerous to scum roles lynched while keeping spy alive. Actually figured out that MO was still alive (tried to kill him night I died). I still did just about everything in this game but won.

[LlamaFluff]

Still have no idea what I gave everyone.

Still ignored after my death.

You gave me the ability to clear all points off myself.

Also I was glad you were ignored, you were close enough to the point to be a threat. The "lynch me now" was just bad though, you have to assume that if everyone is getting a gift they are likely all weak gifts.