Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[podium123456]

/confirm

Present

I also confirm that AlmasterGM and Super Smash Bros. Fan are in this game, and understand (so they say) their roles (or should I say their jobs).

That's kind of an odd joke... assuming it's a joke.



*insert generic and witty RVS comment*

[podium123456]

VOTE: llamaeatataco

...because i recognize that name from epicmafia chat

[podium123456]

Also, are you scum?

No I am not. BTW, I remember this question from Mini 955: Classic Mafia where you asked Seacore this question.

Yeah, wicked. Is there some strategy to that question? Because it seems utterly pointless.

[podium123456]

SSBF?...Do you agree with my policy vote?

I actually do. This is a solid way to gain reactions from him and put pressure on him. It also reminds him that we are not going to underestimate him again.

my reaction --> meh

Why does podium need pressure, he's already proven he's pro by completely pwning you both.

Hence the term Policy vote.

Hiphop, please dont give the scum an easy target by acting like a buffoon right out of the gate.

[podium123456]

Podium, why do you think hiphop is town?

One would assume that scum would want to lay low and not do anything odd to stand out from the crowd, especially at the start of a game.

He's done the opposite of that.

That view is subject to change, of course.

[podium123456]

I'm getting a bad feeling from each of the following:

llamaeatataco
Sando
Super Smash Bros. Fan

What is it about SSBF that gives you a bad feeling?

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Crypto - You said alamaster was the correct wagon, and have removed your vote from him without any commentary. Was post 40 really enough to change your mind? Why?

Also, i dont like how you have asked nearly everyone to expand on why they think someone is town or scum... yet you place a vote on SSBF and say absolutely nothing as to why you did.

FOS: Crypto

[podium123456]

Logic 101. Just because there is a reason doesn't mean it implies you are scummy unless I make that connection. An RVS vote saying, "Vote hiphop because I hate spiderman" has a reason. A textbook policy vote against anti-town players has a reason. Neither of these indicate scum. My vote was just saying "I'm voting for you because you are being annoying and I have nowhere else I'd rather have my vote right now.

Your attempt to turn this molehill into a mountain is noted.

IMO, most of the reason this has turned into a mountain is because you included 'wagon tiem' with your vote on hiphop. If you had said 'vote: hiphop because he is being annoying', and left it at that, it would look like a normal RVS vote.

Most people dont say 'its time for a wagon' when placing a random vote... which makes me wonder if you initially meant it as a random vote, or are trying to twist it into one one now that it blew up.


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Doing my best to keep up with the sando/llama/hiphop/almaster discussion.

Upon first read through of it all, i like sandro's arguments the least. Feels like he's trying to use the confusing nature of almasters actions to back llama into a corner.

I dont like SSBF's vote on llama... both for supporting sandros case, and for what i feel are weak reasons of his own.

Right now, i dont like the case against llama, nor the people voting for him.

[podium123456]

OMGUS is a wildly over-used term btw, and it's unlikely it will come out of my mouth as an accusation.

I agree. Although i dont mind saying someone is omgus'ing... its the part of equating omgus'ing to being scum that i dont like. kinda feel the same way about lurking.

I'll add that i do think that llama played a little poorly in spots... both with being afraid of saying what he wants because of what others will say, and for the trying to turn it back around on you thing... i just read those as legit poor plays, instead of indicative of scum, right now.

[podium123456]

Pretty sure you're still voting him from RVS

hahahahahah i forgot!

awesome catch!!

UNVOTE

[podium123456]

Also, i dont like how you have asked nearly everyone to expand on why they think someone is town or scum... yet you place a vote on SSBF and say absolutely nothing as to why you did.

You're implying hypocrisy. What about it is hypocritical?

Ummm... isn't the answer to your question in the portion you quoted from me?

???

[podium123456]

No. What about not giving a reason while asking for certain reasons is hypocritical?

Wow. I think this is the start to a really dumb semantics argument, that would clutter the thread up. Here... i wasn't implying hypocrisy.

I have an idea... why dont you tell us your reason for voting SSBF, instead of continuing to avoid the question.

[podium123456]

This game is bananas.

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random off topic question: how do you do those awesome quotes? There's probably a wiki page, but I can't find it.

Press the quote button at the top right of the individual post. If doing multiple people, copy/paste them all into one reply.

[podium123456]

OK, i read the last 4 or so pages and got caught up.

wicked - nothing standing out so far. the spyrex vote makes him look better to me, upon first impression. null leaning town

Hiphop - Dont know if scum would be that obnoxious out of the gate. Null read.

charter - was early on the hiphop vote. Calls out (and votes) noactingup for lurking... while he lurks. Null leaning scum.

spyrex - seemed like active lurking until he got called out. bored townie? null leaning town.

noactingup - tricky. very tricky. i would have rather had seen the claim near the end of the day, after we had a chance to draw an opinion on your discussions/arguments. you will forever be a big question mark now. im not sure that i would be opposed to lynching him now... just to get rid of the question.

llama - meh. plays new at times, sloppy at others. null with a slight town lean.

ssbf - as someone pointed out, seems eager to follow town. havent seen anything that stands out too bad yet (besides my earlier criticism). null.

almaster - need to examine him closer. not sure that i believe his hiphop vote was pure random. gut feeling against him right now. scummy.

crypto - iso of him screams active lurker. seems verrry eager for a lynch on anyone ("more voting" "im up for a wagon on spyre"), lots of vote changing. scummy.

sando - dont like how he was pressuring llama earlier. REALLY like what wicked brought up here:

First he says that he thinks hiphop was looking "very good" until his vote or almasterg.

I don't see what exactly hiphop could've done to make him look very good this early in the game.

I thought he looked townish for attracting so much attention to himself, but

Sando even says that he feels hiphop's play was a bit labored

, so I don't think that's the reason for his town read.

Then there's an unusually strong town read on podium.

Sando what gave you a strong town read on me at that time?

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Right now, i feel like i would be comfortable lynching crypto, sandro, or possibly noactingup.

VOTE: Sando

[podium123456]

Darn, we cant iso.

I dont really like the votes on spyrex... am i missing something, or is the only case against him wickeds meta thing, and lurking?

wicked do you still think spyrex should be lynched today?

[podium123456]

What about "lots of vote changing" is scummy to you? How does shifting my vote around help my top-secret sinister scum agenda?

Sparking a bw, anticipating a popular lynch candidate, etc.

[podium123456]

im not sure that i would be opposed to lynching him now... just to get rid of the question.

^ dislike this. In fact that is scummy It looks like a null read yet he still wants to lynch him. Looks more like he is thinking what is best for scum, by getting a mislynch. First of all, you will not get rid of the question. It will always be a question, until end game. Therefore the question will still be there. It does not help. So lynching him because he claimed miller is just bad. 2nd thing, why can't you still "draw an opinion on (his)discussions/arguments?" Or is this some alien concept to be utterly ridiculous in drawing any opinion on a person playing mafia?

You want to be potentially stuck in endgame with him? Would be less damaging to lynch early in the game.

Only thing that sways me is that he talks about having to look up in the wiki what the miller role was, and PM the moderator questions about it. I dont think maf faking miller would be clever enough to make up that story.

Darn, we cant iso.

Yes, you can.

now

we can.

Also answer this post Don't start skipping.

I'd rather you let the person that asked the question make that request. Let's me know how serious they were about knowing the answer, or if they were just throwing out questions to look like they are scum hunting.

[podium123456]

You see, if I was scum I wouldn't give a damn about who spyrex thought was town because I have seen no evidence showing that a) he knows what he's doing and b) people agree with him. So, obvious stretching is obvious.

Nah, as experienced as spyrex appears to be, if you were scum you would be very interested in who spyrex thought was town. Scum is always wary of experienced players, and would be very interested in their scum/town picks.

Now... are you

really

not aware of that, or are you playing dumb?

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See, i just feel like llama is playing new/dumb/naive... something like that... and mafia is taking advantage of that to make substantive arguments against.

caveat: Some of llama's play reminds me of how i played last game... and if you havent gotten the hint from hiphops drops, i was mafia playing dumb/new/clueless townie and avoided all suspicion. (admittedly a lot of my play really was new/dumb/clueless). still... im aware of the fact he could be doing the same.

I haven't been as interested in this game as i would like to be, but i am trying to stay relevant. Right now most of my direction is by gut, and my gut says he is town. I could be completely wrong.

Honestly, there aren't many people i would be against lynching right now, as it's too hard to tell who's lying or not. I'm putting my hopes in getting good info from the night.

[podium123456]

He was so impressed by KK (Kublai Khan) that he called him the scum MVP. The fact that he quickly assumes another player in this game is town for claiming miller is absurd.

Why was his play so inspired that game? Yeaaaa that whole reason why THAT was so inspired has a direct correlation here. And not in the OMG META F-- way you're aiming for.

Claiming not only miller but death miller at that juncture is a town move. Period. Now, if other evidence presents itself that isn't somehow OHH SNAP MILLER than sure. As it sits, town. That action is the most town thing to happen in this cluster.

It may not be extremely influential, but imo he has a small point. I dont understand why, since you were obviously aware that scum could use that tactic to win, you didnt seem to show any hesitation in assuming that (

this

time) the miller is telling the truth.

edit: at this point i went back and took a gander at that game... you were in endgame with the mafia miller... seems like it would definitely be a concern to you. do you understand why it looks odd?

since being a 'balls out' mafia play doesnt mean that that isnt what's happening, what makes you say that you 'arent buying it' as a mafia play here?

I'd rather you let the person that asked the question make that request. Let's me know how serious they were about knowing the answer, or if they were just throwing out questions to look like they are scum hunting.

I wanted it answered too.

Legitimate. Although i would have preferred to let the original person make a post before you asked again. Small potatoes... im sure i do the same at times. Just giving some insight as to why i skipped it.

[podium123456]

@alamanatee: cool story bro. So are you saying I'm scummy for any real reason, or are you just doing it because all of the cool kids are?

I was one of the first people to suspect you (maybe even THE first), and I'm the first person on your wagon, so STFU n00b.

Why did you say this almaster? You clearly weren't the first person on llama's wagon.

Ohhh hells no I'm not answering that at this juncture. Its not ALLIANCE time and that doesn't help anything.

What are you referring to here?

[podium123456]

I'm not going to slobber over meta because thats about as useless as you can get.

I would consider this 'strategy' rather than 'meta'.

I'm not gonna beat a dead horse forever, so ill drop this. But i'll just say that you've given me no plausible reason as to why you didn't give any hesitation in thinking the miller claim here was a townie... and its odd imo, especially considering your previous encounter with this situation. Doesn't necessarily mean i think it's a scum move at the moment... it's just that i find it odd.

[podium123456]

Hence, not a scum move.

Except for when it is.

[podium123456]

I'm a Town Cop. In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion, every Night, I have the ability to investigate a person of my choice.

I'm going to respond to anything that I'm missing. I also promise a full analysis of everyone before the Day ends.

*facepalm*

Last game you get lynched and never claim cop, this game you claim early. By my count you were only at L-2.

[podium123456]

What are you referring to here?

I think you knew exactly what he was referring too.

No, his post begins with "oh no im not answering that"... i wanted to know what the question was that he wasn't answering, and who asked it.

Just giving some insight as to why i skipped it.

So you skipped it on purpose. 1. Why? 2. Did you happen to notice that Crypto would not be available to question you further till day 2?

1. already answered:

I'd rather you let the person that asked the question make that request. Let's me know how serious they were about knowing the answer, or if they were just throwing out questions to look like they are scum hunting.

2. nope

Grr...Podium you are making me mad. Can't you be obv one way or the other?

Dont try and flatter me, SCUM.

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Ok, well IMO we aren't lynching the only cop claim today. ...but it's ssbf...

Was a poor move to claim early ssbf... yeah you might have went to L-1, but might not have. if you're telling the truth, i would have preferred llama claim vanilla and get lynched as vanilla than to expose (probably) our only shot at some night info on d1... sheesh. lets hope for a protective role, and no mafia roleblcker. SHEESH DUDE

Need to read over things some more, but still prefer sando or maybe crypto at the moment. looks like llama wagon has a lot of momentum... still not feeling it.

[podium123456]

I believe podium123456 said it best when he said:

This game is bananas.

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death miller, cop, gunsmith claims on d1.

well... we lynch a cop cc here, right? maybe a bad day just turned into a good one for town. lets do this.

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ssbf - why did you claim early?

charter - why would the fact that you (assuming) are a gunsmith make you suspicious of noactings claim?

[podium123456]

And you never answer my question, did you know crypto is v/la?

I answered that.

lets do this.

ahh...another scumtell from Podium. No vote? That is scummy coming from you. What are you waiting for? For you to follow the town again.

Fail.

1. "lets do this" as in lets figure out which one we are lynching... hence the question to each cc.
2. 'follow the town

again

' - i assume you are referring to meta from the last game, as i havent followed the town this game.
3. if i wanted to follow the town, i have had plenty of opportunities so far... and haven't.

[podium123456]

and for a triple post

Charter if your claim is legit, don't investigate ssbf. We know he has a gun either way. You might consider investigating nopo. Think about it.

actually... yeah, he probably should investigate nopo... that would clear up the question.

assuming they aren't working together, of course.

[podium123456]

The chances of a gunsmith AND a cop both being in the game are low. I'd say nill but for the miller claim as well; that could be a red herring.

yes, its an odd (tee hee) scenario. it doesnt make sense to have a gunsmith and miller only because an investigation of the miller would never occur, and thats a huge part of that role. town cop and miller only makes sense. town cop and gunsmith seems unlikely, but possible i suppose. same with all 3 existing... unlikely, but possible.

so, yes, if ssbf is lying i would say nopoint is as well. but that seems outlandish for 2 scum to fake claim on d1. is charter lying? i thought his reaction was genuine. do we have all 3?

spyrex what were you thinking? that we have all 3? or that one (or more) are lying?

[podium123456]

And you never answer my question, did you know crypto is v/la?

I answered that.

No you didn't. Show me. Stop evading and just answer it.

I already answered one question from you twice, without a problem. Having to answer another question for you twice makes me think you aren't really reading my posts, even though you have stated that you consider me a huge worry.

Thats fishy.

1. "lets do this" as in lets figure out which one we are lynching... hence the question to each cc.

Oh, please. This is such bs and you know it.
Here is the original quote,

well... we lynch a cop cc here, right? maybe a bad day just turned into a good one for town. lets do this.

You go from asking the town on what to do, (which pretty much makes number 3 fail. Because truly you are asking the town what to do. Hence follow the town. ) to saying you pretty much agree that we should lynch the cop. And finally, "let's do this", which pretty much leads to everybody lynch the cop. Yet Podium does not make the first move. Oh.. wait... he is wanting the town to make the first move. Question for everybody but Podium- Does "Let's do this" insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop? Can somebody else explain this to me, because for once Podium is not making any sense at all?

Sigh. I dont even feel like explaining this cause its such a weaksauce case.

1. My first impulse was that we lynch a cc, but i asked "right?" to make sure. I'm not familiar with the proper move in this situation... and i didnt get the memo where we arent supposed to ask other players opinions about how to proceed.

2. EVEN IF i was 100% determined to lynch a cc, then what dont you understand about me saying 'lets do this' and then trying to determine which one to lynch without placing a vote? If i am unsure of which one i want to lynch (which i am), then whats wrong with me scumhunting before i place a vote?

Oh for number 2, yea it refers to the other game. Part of your scum meta.

Ok, so when i was scum i followed the town. This game i haven't. Snore.

[podium123456]

1. My first impulse was that we lynch a cc, but i asked "right?" to make sure. I'm not familiar with the proper move in this situation... and i didnt get the memo where we arent supposed to ask other players opinions about how to proceed.

1. Funny, who were you asking? Certaintly didn't listen to me. Must have aimed the question at people who ...SURPRISE... want to lynch the cop.

Misrepresentation... you are implying that i should have taken your advice on what to do with a gunsmith and cop claiming, when you had only given thoughts regarding a cop claiming.

edit: I think this issue stems from what i explain below.

Therefore he only had one goal- lynching the claimed cop. Anyone else see this? Yet, still no vote.

Question for everybody but Podium- Does "Let's do this" insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop? Can somebody else explain this to me, because for once Podium is not making any sense at all? And I kind of want an answer. Why did everyone ignore this?

1.fact- "let's do this" Aiming to lynch the cop.

1. Aiming to lynch

a

cop

CC

.

After reading the bold and wondering why you would say that, i think i see what the problem is. When i said 'we lynch a cop cc here, right'... i was calling the gunsmith a cop as well... cause its a flavor cop. I think you took it to mean 'we lynch the town cop here, right... lets do this', and then i asked each of them questions... which wouldnt make sense if that's how you interpreted it.

Does that clear it up?

[podium123456]

ok well, by my count llama has 4 votes, and ssbf has 3... and we have 3 days to deadline.

i have no idea what the best thing to do is. ive become more open to the possibility of 2 investigating roles in the same game. it doesnt make sense to have gunsmith and death miller in same game. charters claim/tone sounds believable... ssbf and nopoints seem shaky. with only 11 people would we have death miller, gunsmith, cop, and (assuming) a protective role? along with all the scum? thats lots of prs.

if

ssbf and charter are telling the truth, then one will die tonight. if we tell the protective role to protect charter, and have charter investigate nopoint... then maf will kill SSBF.

...bah you know what, i could sit here all night and try to figure this out and still not come up with a solid move... it seems that no matter what we do, we are always going to have certain roles with a big question mark on them for the rest of the game... we're basically not going to be able to trust any info we get 100% unless we lynch cop/gunsmith and one of them flips scum. which sucks.

am i right? or am i confused? we wont be able to trust

either

investigation unless one of them is lynched and flips scum. although... wait a minute... maf will HAVE to kill one or both of them eventually. after they flip town, all their previous investigations will be useful. so let them both ride until maf kills them, perhaps? we will have some leverage over the night kills that way... it forces maf to kill a cop, or they can risk an investigation occurring.

gah this is tough. lets say they are both telling truth... worst case scenario is we protect charter tonight, ssbf dies, and we find out if nopoint is real tomorrow. if ssbf is telling truth, and charter isnt, ssbf dies tonight and charter fakes on nopoint tomorrow. if charter is telling truth, and ssbf isnt, neither die tonight and we get questionable info on nopoint tomorrow.

..see... all this effort and still no solid direction.

sigh.

ok.

no, not ok. each time i start to suggest a plan of action i have second thoughts. like this: if ssbf is lying, then nopoint probably is too... and based on ssbf's play last game i could see him faking town cop even after his partner faked death miller, so lets lynch ssbf. BUT would a gunsmith be the ONLY investigating role included in this game? doesnt seem likely that with only 11 people we only have a gunsmith to help us.

ok, im not going to keep writing trying to figure this out. maybe something in this flow of consciousness will help someone else find a solid way to progress. maybe not... i know it hasnt really helped me. (and yes i have deleted some text out of 'walloftext' courtesy)

if someone were to make me decide what to do right now, i would suggest we let all 3 prs live and lynch a scum suspect, and take it from there. i suggest sando, but would also support a crypto lynch.

that's my brain.

my gut says lynch ssbf.

[podium123456]

Why does nobody give their opinions on this?

Maybe because they (unlike you) paid attention to what i wrote about it and realize it is a wording misunderstanding.

Misrepresentation... you are implying that i should have taken your advice on what to do with a gunsmith and cop claiming, when you had only given thoughts regarding a cop claiming.

Wrong again. I am implying that you should have taken my advice into consideration about the gunsmith and cop claim after I had given it. You asked a question, so you must have been unsure of yourself, yet you showed no indication that you read my advice until your most recent post.

Whoa whoa whoa. This borders on scummy arguing tactics... if there's one thing i really hate its people that jump all over the place and/or intertwine unrelated things when they are arguing. for now, ill assume that it was unintentional.

You criticized a statement i made BEFORE you gave an opinion on cop/gunsmith claiming. link Therefore, it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to take your advice into consideration before i asked it. That particular criticism you made was not valid, for the reason given.

After reading the bold and wondering why you would say that, i think i see what the problem is. When i said 'we lynch a cop cc here, right'... i was calling the gunsmith a cop as well... cause its a flavor cop. I think you took it to mean 'we lynch the town cop here, right... lets do this', and then i asked each of them questions... which wouldnt make sense if that's how you interpreted it.

Does that clear it up?

No, it doesn't. I don't care about the first sentence, and I don't care about the second, it is the "Let's do this." That is glaring from the page.

Let try this.

We are lynching THE cop cc here, right

? "Let's not do this." What does it mean? Doesn't it mean that I am saying that I disagree to lynching the cop cc? Take the negative out and what is it saying? Do you get the same feel that one sentence is linked to the first?

Fact-"Lets do this." pushing for the lynch of SSBF. Yet no vote. Looks to me that Podium is waiting for someone to bite, and then ride along.

I understand your heart is all a flutter because you have a personal vendetta against me, but you need to listen to what i say.

Once again, i consider gunsmith to be a cop because it is a flavor cop... i was referring to both. You need to consider the first sentence... especially when you keep MISQUOTING it. I said "we lynch

A

cop cc here, right" NOT "we lynch

THE

cop cc here, right". there is a big difference there. THE implies one... A implies more than one. Stop changing my words to fit your argument.

Furthermore, by your line of reasoning, IF i had meant the first part to only apply to the town cop (which i didnt), then why would i say "cc"? There is no "cc" to the town cop, that wouldnt make sense.

You need to get this straight. Dont just ignore what i am saying because you want to keep driving your initial (incorrect) assumption, because thats what it looks like you just did.

[podium123456]

cc- character claim
cop character claim. Makes sense to me.

mmm. i'm used to it standing for counter claim.

[podium123456]

not so sure about this lynching nopoint stuff. for one, he is pushing to not get lynched and be investigated... which is in his favor. if he was scum, and knew he was going to be investigated if he isnt lynched, the best move for him would be to get lynched... it would serve to confuse town.

if he's dirty, we will know tomorrow. why not let charter investigate? dont get me wrong, i am still susp. of nopoint and i really didnt like his vote on crypto... but why not just let charter investigate?

[podium123456]

Sigh. When this is, again, an issue tomorrow there's going to be a slew of I told you so's.

Further, when SSBF is, in fact, lying there is going to be even more I told you so's.

Unvote, Vote: Llama

you think the only investigative role in this game is a gunsmith?

[podium123456]

am i right? or am i confused? we wont be able to trust either investigation unless one of them is lynched and flips scum. although... wait a minute... maf will HAVE to kill one or both of them eventually. after they flip town, all their previous investigations will be useful. so let them both ride until maf kills them, perhaps? we will have some leverage over the night kills that way... it forces maf to kill a cop, or they can risk an investigation occurring.

You are forgetting the possibility of charter or SSBF being scum.

No i'm not forgetting it.

Unvote. Vote: Nopointinactingup.

I would prefer lynching him instead of SSBF or Llama right now.

Mafia wants nopoint lynched, regardless of if he's mafia or not. Why are you guys pushing this?

[podium123456]

yes, this

is

stupid imo. nopoint you should unvote.

Since I doubt you're a death miller, the only way to find out about your alignment now is to lynch you. If you're a miller, town still has a major advantage over scums.

this half way makes me want to lynch you right freaking now. if you think he isnt a death miller and is lying, and we lynch him... then we still wont know if he's telling the truth. we find out NOTHING about his alignment by lynching him. think.

i wish some of the people on this nopoint train would fill me in on why you are handing mafia what they want, instead of just having the gunsmith investigate overnight.

[podium123456]

DONT ACT LIKE YOU AREN'T PRESSING REFRESH EVERY 3 SECONDS, MAFIA. I CAN SMELL YOU.

[podium123456]

I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch.

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Of course, crypto looks good because he could have hammered nopoint and didnt. And lets not forgot he also removed a well-justified nopoint vote back at L-3. I like those plays. A lot.

Hiphop moves up my scum ladder here...

FOS: Hiphop

[podium123456]

Am I the only one who finds AlmasterGM (vaguely) suspicious?

No.

[podium123456]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

Fear of a RB is a weak reason to lynch nopoint, imo. The reward is worth the risk. We lynch nopoint and we will

never

know the truth behind a large majority of D1 actions. If charter gets rblocked, then the same would apply. However, if there is no rb, then we would obtain extremely valuable information.

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Llama is better if no one wants to man up and take care of business. Lynching the death miller is absolutely a waste and I'm disgusted by it.

Spyrex, if you think there is only one investigative role, and that it's charter... why aren't you voting for ssbf? You would probably have a good shot at getting enough votes.

[podium123456]

Hiphop, you didnt answer my question:

"I need to hear from wicked and hiphop reasons why mafia

wouldnt

want a nopoint lynch."

and/or How is a nopoint lynch not a win-win for mafia?

For the simple fact that he is mafia. Why would mafia drive up a wagon, when he is a mislynch any day? Why would mafia drive up a wagon on their scum buddy when llama can be mis-lynched instead?

My point really wasn't why would mafia push a nopoint lynch, its why would town push a lynch that pleases mafia? I guarantee they would rather see us lynch someone whose alignment is never revealed versus a VT. Lynching a VT would at least give us info we could use.

Also, the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch. or at least not as much as we might with a miller only claim. (or even a miller plus town cop claim)

Isn't a win-win, a win on both accounts? Not seeing a win when nopo flips scum.

If he's town, town never knows his alignment. If he's maf, town never knows his alignment.

And if there is a RB, we go on, and on, and on. Any night that scum can last is one more closer to winning. Isn't that right?

So you don't want to let nopoint live because you think there is a RB and they will block charter. Interesting that the possibility of a RB hasnt been discussed (to my knowledge) until a few ticks before nopoint almost gets lynched.

And he can be killed. And yes it has been discussed. Someone mentioned it between the claims and now. Also just because nobody discussed it does not mean it isn't there. Also a rb is up the air as much as a protective role. Or are you saying we have one of those?

Id say that betting on a protective role is a safer bet than on a maf roleblocker. Also, you're betting on there being only one investigative role here, which i consider a somewhat weak bet.

I understand you're probably not going to change your mind, but i feel i am making a decent case for others to read... and for me to help affirm my own opinion. Most of the faults you find in my reasoning can be flipped back at you, so either option appears close in terms of the proper move... a lot of it falls back on personal assumptions about what setup we are working with.

I am looking at two scum and only 2 scum in this setup. SSBF, and Nopo And am not in the mood to lynch a townie at the moment, when we can lynch scum.

That resembles mafia speak, imo.

You are still voting for Sando. Why? Do you think he will be the lynch? If so, why are you not pushing a case?

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate. I think maf is/was pushing llama. This recent activity is making some other lynches look increasingly attractive... like spyrex...

and you.

[podium123456]

Podium's recent defense of Nopoint is superbad. Mafia wouldn't want him to be lynched if he's scum, though now a bunch of you are going to assume he is town after he flips scum. You completely discount the possibility of Nopoint being scum.

I'd go for a Podium or Llama lynch if we're allowing the scumbags to live another day.

The only reason i am against it is because we can find out his true alignment. If something happens so that we dont lynch nopoint and we get no info on him tomorrow, then we lynch. I dont see the harm in trying to investigate him once, especially when this is D1.

[podium123456]

Ok, ive been doing a little iso'ing. We are in the final hours here, so have to pull something together quick. i dont think the support is here for a sando lynch, and at this point there are probably better candidates.

im looking at either almaster or spyrex right now, will have a decision momentarily.

[podium123456]

Actually, i think i found someone better. Wicked.

Cause i was thinking to myself... if you (me) say that mafia would have wanted that lynch, then why not pick someone that was on the nopoint wagon. I think i have been subconsciously giving hiphop and wicked a bit of a pass when it comes to scrutiny, because of just coming off a game where they were town. Anyway, when i iso'd wicked, this post jumped out at me:

link

In it, he first expresses doubt about the gunsmith claim (and he has given scum points to charter previously link.)... but at the end he writes a nice little summary of what should happen, which is the same as what i think... dont lynch nopo, protective role on charter, charter investigate nopo. A

little

odd, given that he has expressed lack of faith in charters claim.

But then all of a sudden, once the nopoint wagon formed unexpectedly, he abandons his former plan (which i believe a townie would make) and puts nopoint at L-2 without mention of his previous feelings. (it would have been at L-1 had crypto not removed his vote just before). link.

This looks

extremely

scummy to me. If he thought his plan was a good idea previously, there's no reason for him to completely abandon it just because a nopoint wagon started... i didnt.

Secondary to that main reason... his spyrex vote seemed out of character, and he has been active on the site without saying anything about this recent nopoint drama.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Wickedestjr

[podium123456]

You know what I hope happens. I hope that we run a legit power rule up before deadline, they claim, everyone unvotes, and we scramble and no lynch. That way, next game I'm in where someone claims a power role day one, I have yet another game to point to and say "See, this is why claiming a power role shouldn't save you". Even better would be if we lynch the power role we're about to run up.

Dont understand why you're so opposed to using your special ability... it would yield a huge piece of information.

If you feel that lynching death miller D1 when we have a gunsmith is the right move, then make a case for it... you've basically said nothing but meaningless one-liners your last 4 or 5 posts.

Besides that, do you not feel that what i pointed out about wicked is really scummy? Do you still think im scummy after i responded to your allegation?

[podium123456]

I LOL'd when I read this. Hard. Because it's true.

HAY GUYZ I'M PODIUM AND CRYPTO LETS "START" A WAGON ON EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME 24 HOURS BEFORE THE DEADLINE HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

You act as if my reasons were just out of the blue and irrational. This is a result of the unexpected wagon that took off on nopoint yesterday. YOU YOURSELF implied that lynching nopoint was a bad idea, here.

And NOW you want to ridicule those that are actually trying to do something about it. +big scum points.

also:

ANYWAY, there are multiple scummy people here, but the only one who doesn't have some sort of excuse is llama. My old and tired vote stays where it is.

Willing to go into N1 withholding valuable information, that may never be known. +scum points Give us your thoughts on the 'multiple scummy people' here.

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Besides all of that, i ask you the same thing i did charter... what do you think about wickeds actions? If a strong scumtell has been discovered, it wouldnt matter if it was 10 minutes to deadline... the proper move is to act. If you dont think it is a scummy move, then say why... TAKE PART.

...but, then again... you may have different motives than i do

[podium123456]

Unvote, Vote: Llama

As stated, we need a lynch, Llama and Nopo are both at the same votes and I think Llama is the better of the two.

HEY, THANKS FOR COMPLETELY IGNORING WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED ABOUT WICKED.

...and whether or not lynching the death miller is a good move.

Perhaps you are under the wrong impression, as shown by these quotes:

How exactly are you going to know if the investigation is true or not SSBF?

And barring any way to confirm any of these claims overnight with their 'investigates', which I can't see, I don't think leaving this till tomorrow is a great idea.

A gunsmith investigation will prove nopoints alignment.

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I really hope you arent going to ignore all of these issues, and dissapear with your llama vote, using the excuse of being V/LA. If you think that what i said about wicked is legitimate, then you can vote him... assume that nopoint will change, and then wicked has the same as nopoint/llama. So dont use the excuse (or incorrectly assume) that llama is the only other viable lynch right now.

Before your vote, llama and wicked are essentially (nopoint will change) tied.

Even if you remain on llama, you need to give thoughts on what is transpiring.

[podium123456]

Your Wicked case is ok, but it's certainly not enough for me to swap to less than 24 hours till deadline, he's in no way obv-scum.

ORLY?

Look what i found:

I'm of the opinion that Llama is floundering town, I don't think he's a good lynch. Will only vote Llama for a deadline lynch.

You would rather lynch one of your town reads, that you have said is a bad lynch... over someone who just made a very scummy play. You wont lynch wicked because he isnt 'OBVIOUS', but you will lynch one of your town reads. You just messed up, scum. Big time.

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I do like how you accuse others of ignoring the claims drama, yet have consistently avoided actually taking a side in all of it.

This is a lie. I have given my thoughts, a quick ISO would show that.

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Your attempt to derail both of the possible/likely wagons 24 hours before deadline is noted though.

I attempted to derail ONE wagon... nopoints, for justifiable reasons.

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I told you I wouldn't have time today, and I still don't, I just got into work and this will be my last post pre-deadline.

I bet you are wishing you hadnt said that, now that i have shown your blatant scumslip. And yes, i hope that will put more interest into lynching you TODAY -- because i would be all for it.

[podium123456]

Actually, I didn't say that at all, I said you keep trying to start wagons right before the deadline. I don't care if every single one of them is legit - it's still a bad idea because, like charter said, 1) you can end up exposing our legit PRs and then 2) scrambling to unvote and getting a no lynch when you could have just settled for the extremely scummy and already-on-the-table llama and SSBF.

Also the fact that I get "scum points just for disagreeing with you shows that your system of "scum points" is flawed and assigned based on you wanting to appear to win arguments and getting me to do what you want and not based on actual scumhunting.

wtf almaster... it's like you are just talking without thinking about what you are saying.

1. You ridiculed me for trying to resolve what you considered a bad move -- the lynching of nopoint. Hypocritical at best, scummy at worst.

2. HOW ELSE CAN I RESOLVE IT EXCEPT TO GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED?

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

Do you see the circular logic behind your excuse for being a hypocrite? Remember that wicked and llama have (essentially) the same number of votes at the time i started.

You are wrong. Your scum points remain for ridiculing me for trying to take care of a bad move, NOT because you disagree with me.

And saying the info will "never be known" is false - it will be known TOMORROW. After the KILL. When it helps TOWN, not SCUM.

Hey Einstein... it's because of the possibility of being killed. That is why i said "MAY" never be known. Dont change my words to fit your argument... it makes you look worse.

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Now. Would you like to help scumhunt? Or do you just want to keep arguing?

I asked you what you thought about what wicked did. I will now ask you how you feel about Sando's ridiculous last post.

[podium123456]

What the HELL is up with everyone tonight? I've never seen such animosity, backed up by such scummy sounding reasons/logic.

Sheesh.

Guess i have to fight the fight tonight... good thing i have time and like to argue.

Spyrex up next, i guess...

[podium123456]

Ok spyrex:

What's the count at?

count from the last votecount, on the previous page... not that hard.

wicked - 2(3)
nopoint - 4
hiphop - 1(0)
llama - 3
sando - 1

(that vote on hiphop is from nopoint, and i assume he would switch to wicked as he previously FOS'd him)

Additionally Podium: Nop, Charter, SSBF: Alignments, right now. Go.

I have already said, but since you seem to need things pointed out to you, i guess i can briefly summarize. Charter's claim/reaction looks townish. SSBF's claim/play seems fakish/scummy. Nopoint is a null, hence wanting the investigation.

This is ridiculous.

Sigh... another criticism for trying to resolve something that person previously criticized.

You said that you were disgusted by a death miller lynch. Well, so am i... and im trying to avoid it. Just what is so ridiculous? Do you SEE the information that has resulted from it? We have that scummy play from wicked and that

unbelievably

scummy move from sando... seriously that sando thing is huge. You dont think that stuff is useful?

Wicked and llama have the same number of votes. What is so ridiculous about what im doing?

Like i said... you can help, or you can argue. If you want to argue and criticize, fine... just come with something better than a hypocritical one liner.

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If you want to help:

What are your thoughts on what wicked did, and what sando did?

We agree that lynching the death miller is a bad lynch, but you are willing to vote llama to avoid a NL. Do you still feel that what llama has done is worse than, say, what sando is doing? or wicked? If you do, that's fine. I just want to get people on record.

[podium123456]

Actually I asked that for a valid reason:
So, the short list of your lynch choices throughout the latter half of today: SpyreX, SSBF, Wicked, Alamaster, Crypto, Hiphop and Nopoint.

Hey... Perry Mason... you aren't as clever as you think you are being. You can't call timeout, comb the entire thread for me discussing anyone i ever suspected, or anytime i discussed variations of possible setups/plans, and then compile them into a list out of context. That's disingenuous as hell, and it ticks me off.

First of all, I dont know about you, but i dont know the alignments of anyone except myself. So i am not going to apologize for suspecting anyone and everyone. So what if i said (which i didnt) i am prepared to lynch anyone today. Last time i checked that's not scummy.

Secondly... crypto is no longer a scum read, i said this. i never suggested you or alamaster for a lynch, i said i was looking at you... reading iso's. what i said to hiphop and ssbf was more hyperbole than anything else.

Right now, a LOT of people are making scummy moves. If you disagree with a case i have made, then challenge it. I'm not going to hold my tongue for fear of what mean 'ole spyrex thinks. Like i said, if you feel like you've got the oats to go up against me, then do it with substance... stop bringing these little petty, amateur criticisms.

You aren't going to trip me up.

If Llama flips a scum PR you might as well not post tomorrow because you are dead. Not a little dead. Super dead.

That makes sense. Because how dare i have a town read on someone you think is scum, right?

You continue to ignore the fact that my actions recently are because i am trying to resolve an issue that 'disgusted' you. Just like you continue to ignore the wicked/sando issues that i uncovered. Maybe because you dont want to admit you are being hypocritical. Maybe because i intimidate you, and you dont want to have to address the legitimate scumplays i have sniffed out. Maybe your cat unplugged your monitor. Maybe you're scum. Who knows.

OH... or mayyyyyybe... maybe

I'M

just completely off my rocker... yeah... maybe that's it... because when a person says they would rather lynch a townie (and vote to do so) instead of someone with a scum case, that's perfectly acceptable behavior. I'm foolish to discuss it... i'm sorry.

HORSESH**!!.

The hell is wrong with this town?

[podium123456]

Besides that, do you not feel that what i pointed out about wicked is really scummy? Do you still think im scummy after i responded to your allegation?

No. Since I'm willing to lynch Nopoint today, if I thought he was suspicious of doing the same thing it'd be pretty hypocritical. What I find scummy about you is how you keep defending Nopoint. You're doing it by trying to start up wagons on other people, like two days before deadline.

Also, you and all the other Nopoint defenders are ignoring his scummy actions and instead strawmanning the case on him down to "death miller claim" which is a fairly minor reason why he should be lynched.

You are completely wrong about comparing what i was talking about with wicked, to yourself. You are completely wrong about me defending nopoint. You are wrong about straw manning nopoints case down to death miller.

I am getting sick of repeating myself and talking to people that aren't paying attention, dont care, or aren't understanding stuff. I would be glad to engage in discussion with you, if you are

truly

interested in what i have to say.

However, if you dont really care and are fine with continuing forward with your own assumptions -- be they faulty or true -- then just roll on with it, dude and i will save my breath.

Not voting Wicked or

Sando

.

You're right. Why would you ever want to vote for someone who said they would rather lynch town over scum. That would be dumb.

*screams into pillow*

[podium123456]

Current vote count:

Llamaeatataco 4 - (AlmasterGM, SpyreX, Sando, charter)

nopointinactingup 3 - (hiphop, Wickedestjr, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

Sando 1 - (llamaeatataco)

Wickedestjr 3 - (podium123456, crypto, nopointinactingup)

6 to lynch

[podium123456]

Sigh.

At this point, I seriously feel like saying F.U. town and voting nopoint out of frustration.

But, because i have way too much pride, i actually care about winning this game. So i will continue to fight the haters/liars/assumers, in the hopes that the best decisions are made.

I just hope that if/when i die, all of you that are criticizing me will respect what i am doing here... albeit in hindsight.


almaster up next.


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...go ahead hiphop. tell me how scummy this post is to you.

seriously, do it. i dont care.

[podium123456]

Podium I am sick of the place holders.

I'm in the middle of replying to almaster and i saw this in a preview.

What are you talking about?

[podium123456]

1. You ridiculed me for trying to resolve what you considered a bad move -- the lynching of nopoint. Hypocritical at best, scummy at worst.

Where did I do this. Quote me.

Dont play games. You made fun of me for trying to start a wagon on someone besides nopoint after you previously implied lynching nopoint was a bad idea.

Oh... i know. You're going to say it was ok to not vote nopoint, but not to choose from anyone else besides llama or ssbf. I've explained how that was illogical.

2. HOW ELSE CAN I RESOLVE IT EXCEPT TO GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED?

There is a difference between getting someone else lynched and SPEWING out suspects like your life depends on it.

Dont play games. I see

two

lynches i am strongly pushing. That's not spewing out suspects. You think the cases are weak? Argue them. You are adding nothing of substance.

For relevant analysis, see SpyreX's post, which I strongly approve of.

I hope you caught the reply post where i obliterated what he tried to do. Take issue with my reply? Discuss it with me.

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

From your perspective. Not mine. From my view, I see someone calling scum town.

You're talking in circles.

You said i should choose from the extremely scummy picks that were already on the table. I explained to you that they are extremely scummy to YOU and not me, therefore it's subjective, and you cant use that particular criticism.

You are now pointing out the subjectivity in my explanation, and saying how it doesnt apply to you.

No crap.

That's why you're initial criticism didn't apply to me.

Hey Einstein... it's because of the possibility of being killed. That is why i said "MAY" never be known. Dont change my words to fit your argument... it makes you look worse.

Not helping the scum pick a NK outweighs the possibility of someone not being able to give reads.

That has nothing to do with what you quoted... in which i was explaining how information might never be known, as well as correcting your misquote of me.


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Hey.

Here's a crazy idea.

Instead of continuing to argue me, mostly over semantics... why dont you discuss something useful.

Like sandos vote, and wickeds actions.

If you numbskulls would stop trying to fight me, you might see that there is (or at least,

was

) activity/support available for a lynch other than llama or nopoint.

[podium123456]

^^ that wasn't 2 hours.

you're reply is coming up.

[podium123456]

Oh there was support, just no real case.

Right.

Until i found them. See previous comment.

[podium123456]

My point really wasn't why would mafia push a nopoint lynch, its why would town push a lynch that pleases mafia? I guarantee they would rather see us lynch someone whose alignment is never revealed versus a VT. Lynching a VT would at least give us info we could use.

Also, the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch. or at least not as much as we might with a miller only claim. (or even a miller plus town cop claim)

If he's maf, town never knows his alignment.

I guarantee you they would rather have a VT lynched then someone who is mafia. Very scummy of you to say that you would rather lynch a VT, rather than someone who has a better chance of being scum.

Are you really this amateur hiphop? Your words are all mixed up, and this is twice you have misrepresented my words.

I guarantee you they would rather have a VT lynched then someone who is mafia. (trying to quote me)

Wrong. Try again.

Very scummy of you to say that you would rather lynch a VT, rather than someone who has a better chance of being scum.

I said

mafia

would rather lynch a VT than someone who's alignment would never be revealed. That's not scummy, that's common sense.

Hey charter, why don't you investigate llama instead of nopo?
Now Podium this is the time to say, "the fact that we have the ability (though not 100%) to reveal the alignment tomorrow, strengthens the case for town not to push the lynch." Refering to llama of course. Why is nopo special?

If he is mafia, town is one step closer to winning. Are you forgetting the chance of him being a scum pr?

Skipped for time, as it would just be a wifomy speculation discussion. You want it answered, then tell me to do it later.

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate.

You know what the funny thing about this whole situation. I have had a case on most everyone I have voted for today, including nopo, and have always pushed for their lynch. You have used your vote, as with most people here as a placeholder, if I hadn't looked at the VC, I would have thought you were not voting.

It wasn't a placeholder. I have stated previous to these last minute actions reasons why i felt sando was still my top scumpick. It's not my fault if i can't get people to agree.

Mod I would like an extension. The rules state

5. Deadlines will be as follows: 2 weeks automatically at the start of the day with an optional 1 week extension based on the activity level and replacement status of the players. Night actions must be received within 48 hours of a day's end.

We will only have 2 weeks and 6 days, because of the move. I know I might not get it but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Good suggestion. I second.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

the rest on the way, in case you are waiting up to read this.

[podium123456]

Where's that quote, podium?

Here you go, smartass.

HAY GUYZ I'M PODIUM AND CRYPTO LETS "START" A WAGON ON EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME 24 HOURS BEFORE THE DEADLINE HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I dare you to get into a semantics argument with me.

[podium123456]

How is that me ridiculing you for resolving the nopoint lynch? I wasn't talking about nopoint at all before, then, or now.

Wrong, but we have to follow the timeline... try to keep up.

I made a BIG fuss about how lynching nopoint was a very bad move, as that wagon was exploding.

You interjected here, and agreed that I had it right (although, you mistakenly said crypto)

about nopoint

.

I then proceeded to get a lynch other than nopoint. In doing so, i uncovered some serious scumtells that hadn't existed before the nopoint wagon. I acted on those scumtells.

Then you come in and ridicule me for trying to resolve the nopoint lynch.

Questions?

You're just inserting nopoint wagon into this out of fucking nowhere.

I bolded it, just in case you missed it.

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Feel free to respond to the rest of your accusations/mis-statements that i corrected!

Or... you know... to discuss more pertinent issues.

[podium123456]

THANKS MOD!

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1.) Its not a function of context - unless you're saying at the time you said those statements thats somehow not what you meant. If thats the case, go ahead and get lynched before your bro because thats fine.

Oh, i get it. You were making the point that i had mentioned suspicion of everyone except llama. Except you conveniently leave out that i haven't suspected charter of anything either.

Remind me again what the problem is with suspecting multiple people, at different periods in the game.

2.) You are NOT prepared to lynch anyone today.

No crap. Maybe you missed it when i specifically said i hadn't said that.

Llama is, was, and always will be absent from the paint brush of suspicion you've been throwing against the wall.

So has charter. Your point?

Look i get it... you think that because i have mentioned suspicion of everyone except llama, that we are scum partners. One, it's not just llama. Two, you are free to assume whatever you want... so... like.. whatever man.

3.)

i never suggested you or alamaster for a lynch

Really?

REALLY?

SCOOP SCOOP:

This recent activity is making some other

lynches

look increasingly attractive...

like spyrex...

i dont think the support is here for a sando

lynch

, and at this point there are probably better candidates.

im looking at either

almaster or spyrex

right now, will have a decision momentarily.

Yea no way I'm going to trip you up. Impossible, rite?

Unvote, Vote: Podium

Yes, it's impossible... at least with the weaksauce you have been serving.

1. I'll start with the semantics, since you want to paint it as lying and worthy of voting me off. I never suggested you for a lynch. I said your lynch was looking more attractive, and that i was examining it -- while close, i never suggested we should actually lynch you.

2. If you look back, you will see that after i made both of my statements about looking at and considering your lynch, I STILL HAD AN UNANSWERED QUESTION TO YOU concerning the recent activity. The subject of that question is why you were looking like a possible lynch candidate, and when you supplied the answer, i felt there were stronger lynches to be made.

POOP POOP

4.) On top of saying "trip you up" which is awesome and a totally town statement I promise I have delved into the "cases" on wicked and sando because, lo and behold, they happened at such an opportune time to advert this away from LLama

that I was all ready for calling teaparty

and then you decided to up the ante.

What does the bolded mean?

But, lets continue:

That makes sense. Because how dare i have a town read on someone you think is scum, right?

You are right you've been on record saying that llama is town wait a second:

llama - meh. plays new at times, sloppy at others. null with a slight town lean.

Dont see the point you are making.

Oh wait... you're going to make a big deal of me saying 'town' instead of 'townish'.

Snore.

Of course, you left out these quotes i made about llama:

i just read those as legit poor plays, instead of indicative of scum, right now.


See, i just feel like llama is playing new/dumb/naive... something like that... and mafia is taking advantage of that to make substantive arguments against.

Oh, and then you left out the quote where i said he was a town read:

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

SNORE SNORE SNORE SNORE

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Make sure and continue to refuse answering what is ridiculous about trying to avoid the lynch that disgusted you, and uncovering scumtells in the process.

Also, continue to not discuss the actions of wicked and sando.

/sarcasm

[podium123456]

Additionally:

I promise I have delved into the "cases" on wicked and sando because, lo and behold, they happened at such an opportune time to advert this away from LLama

When would it not have been an opportune time?

You know... since i couldn't make them until they happened and all.

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Why dont you stop fighting me, and start helping figure out what our best move is.

Oh... that's right... you think the best move is to play with words, and lynch me.

snore

[podium123456]

podiumI agree with your first few points on Sando. The ones about him not wanting to lynch wicked, yet is willing to lynch llama. Major scumtell. If you had made a good case like this on him a few days ago, my vote would have been on him. However less than 24 hours is not a good time to get a wagon going on Sando.

Hiphop.

Do you know why i couldn't have made a case like that on him a few days ago?

...

I uncovered a major scumtell hours away from deadline, and people are criticizing me for it. Can you understand my frustration?

YES. I realize we are less than 24 hours away from deadline. Yes. So what? The nopoint wagon exploded yesterday, and the sando slip (hey i like the sound of that ) occured a few hours ago. Apparently people have a problem with me trying to get the best lynch, based on these late breaking developments. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. If it does, it does.

Of course this makes wicked scum by comparison,

How so?

but Wicked posted this which jumps him ahead of llama in the townie list(not lynching him either). I cannot elaborate because the mod will modkill me. He might do it anyways, but at least Wicked is town.

I think i know what you are talking about, and while wifomy, it's... an entertain-able thought. But i think it's heavily wifom.

Also your case against wicked stinks. It is mostly he supported a nopo investigation, than abandons it. If you had actually read my posts, you will find it was

MY

idea for Charter to investigate the miller, and it was

ME

who laid the first

real

case on nopo and it was

I

and my points that started the bw. So if anyone is scummy for that reason it should be

me

. Why did you choose Wicked over me?

Actually, crypto started the bw and made the first real case on nopo. You had stated from the beginning that you would follow his play and lynch him if he was scummy. You noted scummy play in your vote for him, so you were consistent. (note that i still considered your vote slightly scummy) Your vote was near the start of the bw. Also, you didn't assume there to be a protective role.

Wicked made a fairly specific plan very late in the game, which matched my plan. This included having the protective role protect charter. It was thought out, and solid. BW takes off. He completely abandons his previous plan, and piles on near the end of the BW with virtually no good reason.

Also, he disappeared after that. <-- but that doesnt necessarily implicate him... just noting it.

You know Podium, if you had actually done something during the day, instead of being half in and half out, we migh actually have a good bw that you like on a qualified person that you like.

I found little to work with until the last few days.

I actually did something, and I actually think nopo is a good day 1 lynch. Not the best, but good.

Really? So who is the best? That sounds contradictory. Dont skip this question.

Short list of who I do not want to lynch today.
Everybody besides Nopo, and now Sando because of Podium.

Good. Because I think there is enough support for a sando lynch, especially with the extension. Help me work on it.

Also please comment on my more detailed description of wickeds last action. Does your (what i consider) wifomy argument supporting wicked, make up for the scumminess of his move?

[podium123456]

Honestly, I'd lynch Podium as well, mostly just because I don't like him, though he is quit a bit anti town with all his wagons right before deadline. He doesn't discuss stuff. He just tries to bully you into thinking what he wants you to, which quite frankly, I don't want to have to listen to anymore.

Lol. Ok, pal. "He doesnt discuss stuff" Are you kidding me? Look at the last 4 pages. Show me where i have bullied someone into thinking something they dont want to. All i have done is stood up for myself against a torrent of accusations and untruths. If you notice, 90% of the accusations are dropped because the accusers cant back them up. Your last post was almost entirely incorrect. Do you want to discuss it? Or would you rather just bad mouth me?

I'm 'anti-town' with all TWO of my wagons. Puleease. Do you understand that there is someone who has stated they would rather vote a town read off than someone with a scumcase? Do you understand how bad that is? Do you not care?

As i said, your last 5 or 6 posts have been one liner garbage. Dont get mad at me because i am trying to actually do something. And for the hundredth time... the reason this all started 2 days before deadline is because that's when the nopoint wagon exploded unexpectedly.

[podium123456]

And I like how all i had to do was mention a few names, and it turned into me "SPEWING AND STARTING ALL MY WAGONS LIKE MY LIFE DEPENDED ON IT".

I have only started ONE wagon. ONE. I have discussed starting ONE other.

You guys understand that saying someone is suspicious, or that i am looking over a players text, is not actually starting a wagon... right?



I have started the same number of wagons as spyrex. ONE.

If you guys could unbunch your panties from that fact, perhaps you would accomplish something.

I wont hold my breath.

[podium123456]

Ok, maybe we can cut through some of the 'fight podium for trying to accomplish something' BS today? If not, i am always up for a healthy debate.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Here's the way i see it:

I dont think we should lynch the cop or the gunsmith. I think most people feel this way.

Then we have the issue of lynching the death miller. I would prefer we didn't, and let the gunsmith investigate. Several others feel the same way. If you dont, then you can keep your vote there, i guess.

I feel there are two people worthy of a lynch, wicked and sando. I personally feel wickeds move is a little more scummy... but most people wont discuss it... so i am not sure if that could happen. Sandos slip is blatantly bad, and i feel most people would have a problem with it (but most people still wont discuss it. ??). It may be possible to get that lynch.

On sando is llama... to that you could add myself, crypto, nopoint and hiphop. That's 5. Wicked is yet to weigh in, but im sure we could get the last vote from him or one of the remaning three. I say we push for a Sando lynch, but i would gladly hit wicked if the interest showed up.

UNVOTE
VOTE: SANDO

I would recommend those that are willing to lynch sando place a vote asap.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'll also ask for people to set aside whatever animosity you might have towards me, and focus on making this decision today. Discussion is welcome.

Spyrex, charter, and almaster... you guys are pretty active... i would like to hear your thoughts on sando and what i have written above.

SSBF/Wicked... where you guys at?

[podium123456]

Vote count

Llamaeatataco 3-(AlmasterGM, Sando, Charter)

podium123456 1-(SpyreX)

nopointinactingup 3-(hiphop, Wickedestjr, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

Sando 2-(llamaeatataco, podium123456)

Wickedestjr 1 - (nopointinactingup)

Spyrex - 1 (crypto)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[podium123456]

Today is gonna be retarded busy but real quick:

Crypto: Your homey there, when attacked, opted to lie about what he said and then argue that semantically not once but twice looking at me for a lynch does not mean he wanted to lynch me.

1. Show me where i lied.

2. I like how you completely ignore the fact that i explained i had a question open to you, that was at the heart of my suspicion towards you. You're basically voting me and sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'na na naa i cant hear you'.

3. Get back to me when someone besides your parrot agrees that you have a solid case worthy of a lynch.

As for the other half of the spaghetti he's been throwing missing charter as well as llama as some grandiose defense for it well.

1. This sentence doesn't make sense.

2. If you want to see an example of someone throwing spaghetti looking for something to stick, just examine your last few posts to me. You have lined up multiple accusations and assumptions against me, and when i rebut them you have no answer for ANY of them except this stretch of an argument. It's the only thing you could get to stick and it's only sticking because its a subjective interpretation.

...your desperation to get me lynched includes accusations that i picked an opportune time to attack sando/wicked so as to take heat off llama... when it was impossible for me to make the case at any other time. <--- that's the kind of garbage you have been throwing at me.

And all the while ignoring what i uncovered about sando and/or wicked.

The combination of timing and people make the Wicked lynch absolutely unattractive.

Again with the timing issue. Tell me how the timing could have been different. Remember that time travel backwards isn't possible.

Tell me.

...or just continue to ignore it like you have done 99% of every rebut or question i have put forth to you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I dont see what all the hype is about with you. If you are town, you are playing like absolute garbage. You are attacking someone who uncovered 2 substantial scumtells, without addressing the scumtells at all. I have written/argued VOLUMES over the last few pages, and the only flaw you can find is a subjective interpretation... which you are using as an excuse to get me lynched.

Step back and look at what you're doing.

[podium123456]

then proceeded to get a lynch other than nopoint. In doing so, i uncovered some serious scumtells that hadn't existed before the nopoint wagon. I acted on those scumtells.

Then you come in and ridicule me for trying to resolve the nopoint lynch.

Questions?

Yeah, explain the link between me ridiculing you over starting an excessive amount of wagons 24 hours before the deadline and me ridiculing you for NOT being on the nopoint wagon.

Oh ok... now we are to the part where you start making up stuff. Where did i say you ridiculed me for not being on the nopoint wagon?

I'll help you out: THERE IS NO LINK BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE SAME THING. AT ALL. You are creating this link out of thin air, which is obvious because you even DO IT IN YOUR POST - there's a nice big fat line of blank space inbetween each point.

Right. There is no link between you ridiculing me for starting bandwagons and ridiculing me for not being on the nopoint lynch, because it doesnt exist and i never said it did. It's just you shifting the argument around so you wont have to admit you are wrong.

There

IS

a link, however, between you ridiculing me for starting bandwagons, and the nopoint lynch. That was the original accusation, and I proved it in my timeline.

It's GREAT that you weren't on the nopoint wagon, and if you had followed up on that by voting SSBF or Llama, it would have been fine. Hell, if you had JUST voted Wicked (or any ONE, non-nopoint person for that matter), it would have been fine too.

That's exactly what i did. Of course, you will never concede that, even though the evidence is there in black and white.

But no, you proceeded to launch a barrage against half the players in the game and then cherrypick one of the wagons.

Huge exaggeration. I briefly mentioned suspicion of TWO people, and said that i was reading about 1 other. And you are trying to say that that is a 'barrage' against half the players in the game.

Here:

I think sando is still a pretty solid candidate. I think maf is/was pushing llama. This recent activity is making some other lynches look increasingly attractive... like spyrex...and you.

im looking at either almaster or spyrex right now, will have a decision momentarily.

Is this the best you can do? Blatant exaggerating?

AND OH LOOKIE, you're not even voting for Wicked anymore, despite this super special awesome scumtell you've keep championing, you're voting SpyreX.

1. Everyone has ignored it. Not just said it isn't legitimate.... COMPLETELY IGNORED IT. Not my fault town is playing like trash.

2. I'm not voting for spyrex.

You are blatantly trying to get steam on ANY wagon that isn't the llama wagon, based on some outdated tell that he's "null leaning town."

1. Who says it's outdated?
2. So it looks like you are saying that if i see someone i think is town about to be lynched, i should not do anything and let it happen. Tell me how that isnt what you are saying.

SpyreX's you lying post is win, and your semantics defense of "lol I didn't actually say I WANTED to lynch him, I just said his lynch looked attractive" is megafail.

1. sqwak sqwaaak polly want a cracker

2. i

didn't

say i wanted to lynch him. sure, its close and open to interpretation... so you are free to interpret that way. ROCK SOLID SCUMHUNTING

3. dont forget he also tried to make me look like i was lying about calling llama town, which i proved was a lie. that spaghetti didnt stick.

AND OH LOOk, NOW THERE'S A SANDO WAGON?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOOOOOOL.

Yeah, i know... it's silly to vote for sando right? I mean what has he done wrong? LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL

No, the accusations are dropped because people don't feel like wading through pointless semantics with you when it's extremely clear that your goal isn't to scumhunt but is just to win arguments using any tactic possible.

Hah. This from the guy that has wasted dozens of paragraphs because he is fighting the semantics of me saying 'you ridiculed me for trying to fix the nopoint lynch'. YOU are the one that wanted to challenge the semantics of that (even though it was correct to say it), NOT ME.

HYPOCRITE

Which is why I stopped arguing about the other crap with you - you aren't going to discuss legit so it doesn't matter, and I've already gotten what I want from the debate out of you.

Show me where i haven't discussed legit. I can show you where you haven't... like at the start of this post where you make up something.

...or i like how you made an accusation against me and said my rebuttal was wrong. then when i explained my rebuttal, you pointed at something in the explanation as a means to discredit the explanation... which was the same reason that your original accusation was wrong.

Yeah... but I'M the one not discussing things 'legit'.

Also, for bullying, just read, like, all of pages 15 and 16. Every time someone engages in discussion with you, you say they get scum points, threaten semantics, or vote for them.

Wrong.

Go back and reread. EVERY single person i talked to attacked me or ridiculed me before my tone changed against them.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

But you know... dont let the facts get in the way of your accusations.

[podium123456]

Ok, People I would lynch (in order of preference):
Llama, Podium, Nopoint/SSBF
I'm not voting anyone else.

The fact that i have tried to fix what myself and others considered a bad lynch, and in doing so, uncovered a major scumtell from someone... resulted in me ending up near the top of multiple players lynch lists is why i say F THIS TOWN.

Seriously. F. THIS. TOWN. Do whatever the hell you guys want to.

I stand by what i have done. All of the accusations of trying to paint me as scum for this are baseless, as shown by the fact that no one making them can back them up. Anyone looking back on this thread from a neutral perspective, and after knowing everyones alignments, will be hard pressed to describe my actions as scummy.

[podium123456]

What question? Wicked or Sando?

Would I lynch them? Maybe.

Spyrex... comon man... you are being so dirty. And not dirty in the sense of scum... dirty in debating. Are you trolling me? My last post to you was filled with rebuttals regarding your multiple accusations, and questions. ...and you just completely ignore it and continue starting new posts attacking me.

This is separate from the questions i have asked you REPEATEDLY that you wont answer. And i specifically SAY that i have asked them repeatedly... and you come back with 'uhhhh what question'.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2345665

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2345669

[podium123456]

Podium123456, the posts since a few pages ago have been way overly defensive for my tolerance. I don't see the problem for defending yourself, but you are going way overboard with your defense lately, even to the point where you are calling people names.

I'll be the first to admit i have a sharp tongue when i am in a heated debate. HOWEVER, i strive to remain civil until i am slighted first, and then try to use a tone similar to what i am receiving. Sometimes i succeed, sometimes i fail.

Sure I find your defense mostly townie and is not willing to lynch you yet, but I'm really starting to feel that it's becoming an AtE defense instead of a normal defense.

I understand, but put yourself in my shoes. I have been caught completely off guard by the reaction i am getting over trying to fix a bad lynch. Especially when those criticizing me the loudest, are the same ones that previously agreed it was a bad lynch. All of a sudden i have had to defend myself against a torrent of accusations, of which most are weak or just flat out wrong. Add in the time constraint we are under, and it is a very stressfull situation.

Your case on Wickedestjr does bring up some good points, thought, and I will keep a closer eye on him for the remainder of the game. Not enough to vote him, but I will look further into him.

I appreciate your input.

Concerning sando. As you have seen, he expressed that he is willing to vote off one of his town reads versus someone with a scum case. Do you feel this deserves your vote? Why or why not.

HEY, THANKS FOR COMPLETELY IGNORING WHAT'S BEING DISCUSSED ABOUT WICKED.

You called out Sando for not ignoring discussion about Wicked, yet you left AlmasterGM and charter alone. What made Sando not posting discussion about Wickedestjr more important then AlmasterGM and charter ignoring it?

Not entirely accurate. If you look at my responses to charter and almaster, i asked them both to address the wicked issue and not ignore it.

I also looked back and you're ignoring a question:

How is a reaction test scummy, or silly?

I dont know who asked that, but i remember seeing the question, and im pretty sure it wasnt directed at me. If it was, tell me who asked it.

[podium123456]

There's a whole lot of questions in there so yea thats awesome much like the wasted vote and you'll be sorry mentality.

Dirty debating, and scummy. Dont want to go down on record before night? Need room to wiggle?

If i can answer this 'barrage' (

that's

proper use) of questions/attacks from multiple people, then there is no reason why you cant address one post. Please do.

But, lets try this:

24ish hours to deadline. A left-field wagon shows up. Said wagoner is avoiding one of the main wagons like the plague. Scummy?

True to your form, you conveniently leave out the fact that i consider that person to be a town read.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


This is how bananas this all is:

You are trying to use the fact that i didnt lynch a town read of mine, as a reason to suspect me.

Meanwhile, someone DID vote to lynch one of their town reads instead of a person with a scumcase, and you totally ignore it.

WAKE UP TOWN. ^^ DO THE MATH.

I dont know spyrex, but apparently several of you do. Is he normally this illogical? Because i have a hard time believing someone with experience would set forth stuff like this, if they were town.

[podium123456]

Its irritation that I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall and the semantic difference in this setting with "Ohh he's a potentially good lynch" and "Ohh I never said I wanted to lynch him" being BFF's just doesn't make sense.

Well, whatever you do, make sure to keep ignoring parts of my rebuttal that explain my actions.

As i said to almaster:

You wanted to lynch me because of lying. Included in that case was an accusation that i lied about thinking llama was a town read. That case was weak to start with, based on the difference between the words 'town' and 'townish'... but then i completely obliterated it by showing i had previously called him town. I showed that your accusations, was actually, a lie. Whoops!

Then you are left with the semantics disagreement. I didn't say i wanted you lynched. The words i used

were

general, so what i meant is open to valid subjective interpretation... so you are free to interpret it that way. ROCK SOLID SCUMHUNTING !! HOO RAH!

[podium123456]

No, you had a slight town read / null. If you're going to sit and argue semantics those are actually different things.

Show. Me. These. Awesome. Questions. I'm. Avoiding.

I'll gladly answer them.

Trolling me, eh?

I

JUST

provided you a link to a post that included all of the questions i have asked, as well as my obliteration of your accusation that i had only called llama null leaning town. Problems?

HERE THEY ARE AGAIN.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2345665

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2345669

"ill gladly answer them"

translation: ill refuse to answer them even after you repeat them multiple times. and if you ask me to please address them, and then post links to the questions, ill still refuse to answer.

[podium123456]

Haykers last vote count was wrong. I have corrected it, and updated it to current:



Vote count

Llamaeatataco 3 - (Sando, Charter, spyrex)

podium123456 1 - (AlmasterGM)

nopointinactingup 3 - ( Wickedestjr, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

Sando 4 - (llamaeatataco, podium123456, hiphop, nopointinactingup)

Wickedestjr 1 - (crypto)



With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Crypto, please change to sando ASAP if you are willing to lynch. If you arent willing to lynch, i want to hear your reason.

[podium123456]

Interesting, (Almaster comment on my interesting ) Podium never commented on my wall. Why am I special?

It's coming. I'm a very busy man right now. (no not with rl, with this game)

your vote count is wrong, only two people are voting for nopo.

ty

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

CORRECTED VOTE COUNT:

Vote count

Llamaeatataco 3 - (Sando, Charter, spyrex)

podium123456 1 - (AlmasterGM)

nopointinactingup 2 - ( Wickedestjr, Super Smash Bros. Fan)

Sando 4 - (llamaeatataco, podium123456, hiphop, nopointinactingup)

Wickedestjr 1 - (crypto)



With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch

[podium123456]

Don't really care for a wall. Just a summary of why I am town or scum is fine.

Huh?

In the past you have criticized me for not answering questions. In your last wall, you repeated a question i had asked to set aside for now, in addition to asking a multitude of new questions.

Now you tell me to just summarize why you are town or scum.



Explain.

[podium123456]

What am I being lynched on? A supposed 'slip' that Podium is simply making up.

Podium seems to be claiming that me saying 'I'll only vote Llama to avoid a NL' and then voting Llama, who at the time was equal top wagon, within 24 hours of deadline is somehow me lying. I said I'd only vote Llama to avoid a NL, and did exactly that.

Am I missing anything? Or is this BS seriously all that there is?

Oh you are missing something. The part where you called llama a town read, and said he was a bad lynch... and then, when presented with a scum case that you agreed was 'ok', you continue with your town lynch because the other person wasn't 'OBVIOUS' scum.

It's all right here.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2344924

[podium123456]

You're also completely ignoring this post. Way to misrepresent me, I specifically stated that I would vote Llama despite my read in order to try and ensure that there was not a NL.

You're missing the point. Why vote off a town read, if a scummy move has been committed and there is support/time for the lynch.

The problem now (for you) is that YOU committed a scummier action by doing that, than the scummy action in question. That is compounded by the previous cases against you.

[podium123456]

Spyrex you are being such a dick. Ill repeat the questions i have previously asked multiple times, just for the sake of getting you on record. If you disagree that i have asked you these questions multiple times, then say so, and i will provide proof.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Show me "I think llama is town" that you said.

OK:

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Opportune is shifting a wagon with this much time left. I'm pretty clear about that.

Yes, but when else could i have made these cases on sando and wicked? My goal was to get the lynch off of NOPOINT, not llama. Common sense tells you i would try for someone i dont have a town read on.

My point wasn't that you're throwing out at everyone. Just a wide net that happened to over and over again truly miss Llama.

And charter. And i did criticize llama's play throughout, i just didnt think he was scum for it.


What are your thoughts on what wicked did, and what sando did?

What was ridiculous about me trying to avoid the lynch that disgusted you, and uncovering scumtells in the process?

[podium123456]

Wicked was certainly was not a viable candidate for lynch at that stage, and I did not have time to do much. Mind justifying to me how Wicked is or was a reasonable chance of being lynched?

He was just as likely/unlikely to by lynched as you were at that point. You're probably going to be lynched. Therefore saying he (or you) weren't viable candidates (as several did) wasn't true.

You claim to have offered opinions on the claims business, then do literally everything to try and get someone, anyone, else lynched. At least people like Spyrex have actually said their feelings and made their position well known.

I claimed to, because i did. And then when spyrex said i hadn't, i gave them again.

Yes, but when else could i have made these cases on sando and wicked? My goal was to get the lynch off of NOPOINT, not llama. Common sense tells you i would try for someone i dont have a town read on.

And yet you attack me specifically for voting Llama, I'm calling BS.

Not following you here...

[podium123456]

You claim to not be trying to derail a Llama wagon, yet attack me for joining the wagon. It's a pretty obvious lie.

Your twisting up a couple of events, to make this argument.

First, I was trying to derail nopoints wagon.

Second, i attacked you for voting a town read over a scum read. It just so happened that your town read was llama.

[podium123456]

THIS IS A LONG HIPHOP REBUTTAL, OTHERS CAN SKIP IF YOU WANT, I GUESS.

(although i think there is good discussion regarding why he is/isnt suspect of wicked)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Are you really this amateur hiphop? Your words are all mixed up, and this is twice you have misrepresented my words.

I am sure you can answer that question yourself. Though the answer to me is yes.

Meh, i guess I'm no hot shot either.

I guarantee you they would rather have a VT lynched then someone who is mafia. (trying to quote me)

Wrong. Try again.

If I am such an amateur, how am I wrong?

Oh wait... i was wrong... i thought you were quoting me.

Well, no crap that they would rather see VT lynched over a scum. The absurdness of that statement made me think you had quoted me incorrectly.

I said

mafia

would rather lynch a VT than someone who's alignment would never be revealed. That's not scummy, that's common sense.

Oh really? Let's say you had a scum buddy. He fake-claimed miller. Would you lynch him? Let's say a VT and him were at L-1. Common sense says you lynch your buddy? Brillant. NOT!!

I left out the word 'us'. I said

mafia

would rather US lynch a vt than a no reveal. It was stated correctly in the original text.

And yes you did say you would rather lynch a Vt than mafia.

Lynching a VT would at least give us info

we

could use.

See. you would reather lynch a vt rather than mafia.

I'm not even going to justify this with an answer. This really

is

some disingenuous, amateur level, word twisting, trying to trap me.

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Shall I ask again? Why is Nopo special? Tell me who is more scummy, nopo or llama. If charter is town, and he investigate anybody, wouldn't that person be confirmed when charter dies? Why is Nopo special?

Because llama wouldnt show up scum if he was town.

It wasn't a placeholder. I have stated previous to these last minute actions reasons why i felt sando was still my top scumpick. It's not my fault if i can't get people to agree.

Apparently, nobody felt they were scummy enough reasons.

And? I was rebutting your accusation that i hadn't tried to work for a sando lynch.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I do not consider "this guys is a miller", as a case.

Nor do I. I do, however, consider this a case... which was made prior to yours.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2342057

Did others use Crypto's so-called case, or mine, when they latched on? My point exactly.

Hell,

you

piggy backed on cryptos case when you made

your

case! Lol

I am with Crypto on this one. unvote vote Nopointinactingup <--This guy has been doing nothing but nothing.

Knock knock knock.... helloooooooooo?

Besides that,

no one

used your case when they latched on to the wagon. Charter used his own case, as well as nopoints self vote.

You have quite the wrong impression about your involvement in how things went down. In other words, you think you were much more important than you really were. I have proven this. Perhaps consider that, and then reconsider the wicked situation, as you were basing that conclusion off of faulty thinking.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Just because Wicked added on to

MY

plan does not make it his. I suggested it here and a couple of posts later you agreed with me not Wicked. Wicked doesn't come till three days later and posts this Tell me who's plan was it that said Charter should investigate Nopo?

Oh comon... you are giving waaaaay too much weight to you typing 'the gunsmith can investigate the miller'. Do you REALLY think that no one would have realized that (or didnt already know it) until you said so?

So why was not I wagoned?

For the reasons i stated the first time you asked.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I actually did something, and I actually think nopo is a good day 1 lynch. Not the best, but good.

Really? So who is the best? That sounds contradictory. Dont skip this question.

In general, compared to other games I have played. Why is it contradictory?

You are saying that nopo isn't the best day1 lynch, but that he is good. Who did you think was the best, at the time you said this?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Also please comment on my more detailed description of wickeds last action. Does your (what i consider) wifomy argument supporting wicked, make up for the scumminess of his move?

I did comment on it. I said it stinks. Your case is exactly what I did. Wicked followed. I know my alignment, so by comparison he should be the same. Yes, his town tell makes up for his

unscummy

move. I will not support a wicked lynch. i would rather have a no lynch that a wicked lynch. That is how strongly I believe the guy is town.

Are you still of that strong belief? Even though it was based off incorrect data?

[podium123456]

3. You say i should have chosen from llama (a town read of mine), or SSBF who we BOTH have said should live today. Both illogical for me to do, if there is similar support for another lynch.

Thats all well and good AFTER I BRING IT UP.

Where was llama "a town read" before I posted.

*facepalm*

It

WAS

said before you brought it up.

Its not simply a function of avoiding the worst lynch - its the alternative(s) presented.

What was ridiculous about the alternatives?

Also @ Spyrex:

Are you talking to me Spyrex? I'm confused

Do you know why he's confused spyrex? It's because when you dont quote stuff using the game tags it makes it very difficult for people to understand and follow. You have made a habit of doing it. Please start using quote tags, instead of just copying text into your reply window.

[podium123456]

Can we make a death post here? Dont see anything for/against in rules... i guess you'll delete if we cant.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'd like to send out a big F.U. to my haters.

Hopefully u guys can sort out the rest of this for a win.

....oh and hiphop... you got your wish.

[podium123456]

Thanks hayker.

Perhaps those more experienced than me have different ideas, or perhaps everyone was fine with what hayker proposed. just sound off.

some off the top of my head:

- kill a mafia (too much?)
- prevent any night kills
- give llama his night action, but ensure that he protects town and not mafia (mod would tell him to choose again if he picked mafia)
- turn a mafia pr into a goon

Ideas??

[podium123456]

llama got lynched with only 4 votes

[podium123456]

well perhaps the mod can confer with a group of experienced players outside of this thread to determine what would be fair. it could then be presented to us, and we could vote to either accept the compromise, or scrap the game.

[podium123456]

oh for cripes sake llama... how bout comment on the situation at hand?

[podium123456]

im not cool with the original suggestion, which is why i spoke up. if it ends up that i'm the only one that feels that way, then i'll drop it.

people need to say what they want to do. do you want to proceed with the original suggestion, or not?

[podium123456]

Awesome job guys... glad the insanity i went through on D1 paid off in the end. I regretted not saying how susp. of charter i was before i died, but luckily he got killed. charter and spyrex were my choices for scum after i died. im glad you were scum spyrex, it makes up for the arguing... lol.

[podium123456]

lol yeah. but i meant it makes up for the stuff he was saying that didnt make sense to me.