Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[Wickedestjr]

/confirm

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

[Wickedestjr]

First off, let's agree to these contracts (Do not have to say you agree to us):

1. We agree to be active and not get replaced out unless it is simply impossible. Basically means avoid prods and flaking out.
2. To never self-hammer as it is disrespectful to the players and the mod.

Secondly, I think we can balance do both RVS and RQS. You can choose to do both or one of them. I'll be doing both.

RVS question:
1. What Timezone do you live in? This will be important when we get into more important parts of the game and not everyone lives in the same time zone.
2. How much experience do you have with Mafia?
3. How did you end up on Mafiascum?
4. Do you prefer RVS or RQS?
5. Describe your play style (Optional)

I agree to the contract.


1. GMT
2. This is my 18th game of mafia. Three of my previous games were on another site. This is my 15th game on this site.
3. I played it on another website, but they played 2/3 games every few weeks, so I looked for other sites to play the game and found mafiascum.
4. RQS
5. As town I play by figuring out who's town by using gut and logic. (More often gut). My suspicions change frequently throughout the first day until I have good grip on the game. As scum I am a bit more lazy and bandwagony. I also tend to attack inexperienced players as scum more often. When I'm town I don't like it when inexperienced players get a large bandwagon for newbie mistakes and go after other players.


SSBF, what was the purpose of asking those questions? What kind of discussion were you hoping to start from those questions? Also, are you scum?

[Wickedestjr]

These questions IMO are easier to look back at evidence. With RVS, reactions is basically why it exist. With RQS, you're able to look at the play style and how they answered the question. For example, if I were to notice you bandwagon frequently and attack inexperienced players, I would use that as evidence against you. Now I wouldn't say you're scum because you were doing those thing, but it does raise the possibility of you being scum if that's the case. RQS is basically more of a long-term benefit then RVS.

What kind of helpful evidence do you think could be drawn from those questions? Aside from question 4, I don't think any of those questions help to find scum. (For example, your timezone has no relevance to your allignment in this game)

Another good thing about RVS is that you can point out flaws in it that bothers you, which can also help spark discussion. For example, with your answer to #4, you said you preferred RQS to RVS. However, then you called me out for the questions. What type of questions during RQS would you consider beneficial?

You have avoided my question. What kind of discussion were you hoping to start from those questions? In answer to your question, I would prefer any questions that would actually generate responses that could be used to get an idea of a person's allignment. Any questions that a player would answer differently or in a different way as scum.

Yeah, wicked. Is there some strategy to that question? Because it seems utterly pointless.

I was interested in seeing how he responded/reacted to the question.

@All, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

I prefer to lead. This is mostly because I don't like following, and that is because I usually have different suspicions then everybody else.


More later.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked? SSBF? Almaster? Do you agree with my policy vote?

It’s a good vote for RVS, but I’ve stopped supporting policy lynches.

He was scum, where everybody thought he was town, remember. If I was policy lynching someone who was good, my vote would be for Spyrex.

So, you’re vote for podium is for playing well in Mini 955, yet you say it isn’t a policy vote for a player you think is good. What?

Wicked, jumping over RVS questions pings my radar, they're a fairly common tool used, mainly to move the RVS along, why do you appear to dislike them?

I dislike them because only one of them would actually help to move us out of the RVS.

Now that I actually read all the posts, I think it's kind of strange why Wicked answered SSBF's questions, then questioned him on it. Looks like the old appease and then accuse.

There’s no reason to not answer them imo even if I don’t think they are good RQS type questions. Also, ftr, I don’t think appeasing and then accusing seems like a smart strategy. What exactly would be scum’s motivation for doing that?

[Wickedestjr]

I am getting a town read off of hiphop so far for reasons that podium mentioned.

I'm getting a bad feeling from each of the following:

llamaeatataco
Sando
Super Smash Bros. Fan

[Wickedestjr]

Why Sando?

Post 44:

Sup, this game started just as I went to bed, then work, then bludging around at home, so post time!

I'm aussie btw, so GMT +10. This would make about a dozen games for me.

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Podium is most town by far so far.

Questions:

Wicked, jumping over RVS questions pings my radar, they're a fairly common tool used, mainly to move the RVS along, why do you appear to dislike them?

Hiphop/Crypto, why, simply because almasta decided to call hiphop obnoxious, does that automatically mean that's what the vote is for?

Hiphop, why does there being no connection between obnoxious and scummy mean you're not scummy?

It is mostly just a strange gut feeling, but I also found the above post to be a bit strange. First he says that he thinks hiphop was looking "very good" until his vote or almasterg. I don't see what exactly hiphop could've done to make him look very good this early in the game. I thought he looked townish for attracting so much attention to himself, but Sando even says that he feels hiphop's play was a bit labored, so I don't think that's the reason for his town read.

Then there's an unusually strong town read on podium.

His third question also seems a bit odd to me. Looks like he is either trying to defend almasterg too much or is using a weak argument against hiphop.

What is it about SSBF that gives you a bad feeling?

His play seems different from Mini 955. I don't really know why. His play just seems off. I also didn't think his questions were actually helpful for getting us out of the RVS.


@podium - Why do you only FoS crypto? At the time of your FoS your vote was from the RVS.


Post 64 Sando is defending almasterg even more. Now it is beginning to get bad. First he questions hiphop for thinking that almasterg found him obnoxious but not suspicious, then he questions crypto for thinking almasterg found hiphop suspicious. That looks very contradictory. Vote: Sando

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP:

Unvote. Vote: Sando

[Wickedestjr]

So I ask you again, why am I scummy?

I've merely said that I'm suspicious of you for your current play. I haven't voted you, I haven't said you're scum, I haven't FOS'd you.

This is scummy. He completely avoids answering hiphop's question while at the same time he feels the need to point out that he hasn't voted, fos'd, or called hiphop scum.

What do you guys think about the points I have brought up against Sando in my last few posts?

[Wickedestjr]

Ftr, I am of the opinion that in the RVS you can certainly start a bandwagon on a player even if they haven't done anything scummy.

Not too impressed by nopoint's post 85. First he gives a bad response to crypto's question, then even though his response to charter is justified, he doesn't deny the accusation. The last sentence is terrible also. All his reads are copies of other player's reads and he gives himself room to backpedal by saying that they are just gut reads. The fact that he doesn't have any reasons to suspect anybody seems suspicious.

This is correct. The reason why it's different is because I absolutely hated my play in that game, going as far to call it my 2nd worst game of Mafia I've ever played (1st was Smash Bros. Mafia in Smash World Forums). I tend to play slightly better then in that game.

What exactly did you do to change your playstyle?

Not sure what to think of nopoint's claim. I don't have a problem with early claims, but I don't see why he didn't just claim in his very first post instead of waiting until now.

More later tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

Sando, please stop ignoring my points against you.

[Wickedestjr]

Spyrex is lurking.

What's your point? Lurking =/= scum

all the time, but we could pressure vote him or something.

IMO lurkers are fine d1 lynches actually

...

So is it a pressure vote or is it a vote to lynch him? Also, the two bolded portions are very contradictory. Way to take two different stances twice.

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

Seriously SpyreX? Have you completely forgotten Mafia 96: Murder in Emerald City? Ya'know, the game where Kublai Khan, Mafia, claimed miller in his first post and survived to the end and won. I find it very hard to believe that you would forget that game. It was only a year ago.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX

Seriously? He's asking me why I find him scummy, when

I have never said that I find him scummy

.

That is a big fat lie:

I've merely said that I'm suspicious of you for your current play

. I haven't voted you, I haven't said you're scum, I haven't FOS'd you.

[Wickedestjr]

@llama and SSBF (who are both online) - What do you think about my points against Sando and SpyreX?

[Wickedestjr]

damn you wicked, I was going to do pretty much that exact same thing, but Italicizing that portion instead of bolding it. D:<

So is it a pressure vote or is it a vote to lynch him? Also, the two bolded portions are very contradictory. Way to take two different stances twice.

I was sort of thinking out loud... It's actually both. It's a pressure vote that is going to become a lynch vote if he doesn't do some stuff. Also, I'm not taking two different stances. They aren't contradictory if you think about it... Lurking isn't a 100% guaranteed scumtell, but it IS anti-town. Lurkers are good d1 lynches because they are anti-town, not necessarily scummy. Or, rather, not pro-town. And what do you mean by twice? If you're alluding to Sando's attempt to make my complex thoughts seem contradictory, I'm just going to ignore you about that particular issue.

Alright, that makes sense. When I said 'twice' I was referring to you saying it was a pressure vote but a vote that could lead to a lynch and for saying it is not scummy, but lynchworthy.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while. I spent a lot of my time starting a large normal that I am modding. I will try to make a post ASAP.

[Wickedestjr]

SpyreX: Agree with the case surrounding him (As a matter of fact, Vote: SpyreX). However, unless the case that's being thrown around has been influencing you, I'm not sure how meta reasons warrants a vote. Do you have anything else you don't like about him that no one else has pointed out?

What points do you agree with? In answer to your question, SpyreX's meta seems a bit off to me and he hasn't done anything townish so far in the game.

Alright, since many players don't like my point against SpyreX, I will explain it in a bit more detail. The miller claim was the main topic of discussion in that game for the first 20 pages I'd say (from memory). It's not something that we forgot about. The fact that SpyreX doesn't seem to be at all cautious when hearing nopoint's claim seems very strange to me. For reference here is what SpyreX said:

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

Check out this quote from Mafia in Emerald City (the one where Kublai Khan claimed miller):

....

Yea. Xyl town MVP, KK prescient scum MVP.

Wow. Just wow.

He was so impressed by KK (Kublai Khan) that he called him the scum MVP. The fact that he quickly assumes another player in this game is town for claiming miller is absurd.

That is a big fat lie:

How about you tell me in this, the actual comment I made about hiphop, where I said he was scummy:

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

How about you show me where, ever, I've said that I found hiphop scummy. Scummy, not 'suspicious'. I'll tell you when I find someone scummy.

I consider scummy to mean the same thing as suspicious. I think that if you find a player suspicious that means you find them scummy. You don't think so? What is the difference?

And don't use 96 as an excuse to either vote spyrex or lynch the claimed miller. That was exceedingly exceptional circumstances, given he was investigated N0.

Secondly, what does the fact that Kublai Khan was investigated have anything to do with it? Nobody knew about that until after the game ended.

Also, what do you expect a town-miller to do?

If nopoint is town, then he did the right thing. I'm not convinced he's town at the moment though. His millar claim honestly doesn't change anything.

Lastly, RESPOND TO MY POINTS/QUESTIONS!!!! I see no reason for you to ignore them if you are town. You have responded to 1 or 2 of them, but I am almost certain you have ignored several of them.

Not sure what to think of nopoint's claim. I don't have a problem with early claims, but I don't see why he didn't just claim in his very first post instead of waiting until now.

Why should we talk about it the entire day 1, when we can talk about what is really important like who is scum? Imo it might have been better for him to wait even longer than he did.

I'm not sure what the purpose of your question was. When did I say anything about talking about the claim the entire day 1? Also, nopoint can be scum, so it is important for me to think about his claim, so, I consider that talking about who is scum.

I disagree that he should've waited longer. Claiming at the beginning locked him into his claim. He can't change it for the rest of the game. If he waited until later in day 1, that would have given him time to consider different fake claims. For example, he might decide to claim miller day 1 because he fears he will be investigated night 1. He would've had no idea at the very beginning of day 1.

1:Why the vote? 2:You make a big deal about Sando ignoring your case, and yet you change your vote anyways. 3:I agree with Spyrex, am I scummy for that? 4:In fact, why is it scummy at all? 5:If it was scummy, wouldn't you vote for nopoint instead? 6:If you are saying Spyrex is scum for that, wouldn't that mean nopoint is scum too? 7:What does Spyrex have to gain by saying such a thing?

1: I found it suspicious how SpyreX carelessly assumed nopoint was town, considering he had been tricked before as town and I think that would've taught him a lesson. Keep in mind, SpyreX isn't even basing his read off of nopoint's behavior in the game. He is only basing it off the fact that he claimed miller.
2: So? I can not be forced to keep my vote on a player simply because they ignore my points. Can I?
3: By 'I' I'm assuming you mean 'him'. If that is what you meant to say, then the answer is yes.
4: See my response to 1.
5: Nope. What did nopoint do wrong?
6: No. I actually think that nopoint is town if SpyreX is scum.
7: I don't know. But that doesn't mean we should ignore it.


hiphop raises a very good point regarding SSBF and his following the town.

More later. I didn't want to make this post too huge.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, I just finished reading page 7.

I really dislike charter's suspicions. The four people he shows suspicion of in this post are all some of the most popular candidates. (Sando, Llama, SSBF, and Nopoint) Major scum points for that.

wicked do you still think spyrex should be lynched today?

I don't think I ever said I wanted SpyreX lynched yet. Ftr, I think the point is still valid, but his reaction to the pressure looks townish.

I didn't know what Miller was till this game, so I had to look up wiki and then ask the mod if it's okay for me to claim first day. And I didn't see anyone too suspicious of me? Only you had a vote on me .. and that was quite ironic . I've played enough to know that you'll be suspected at one period or another anyways whether you're town or scum, lurks or be active.

This begs the question: Why did you need to check the wiki if your role should've been explained in your role pm?

Is SSBF ignoring the votes on him?

@alamanatee: cool story bro. So are you saying I'm scummy for any real reason, or are you just doing it because all of the cool kids are?

I was one of the first people to suspect you (maybe even THE first), and I'm the first person on your wagon, so STFU n00b.

Nice response btw...oh wait, there wasn't one.

I dislike this post. If Almaster is reading the thread, he should have seen Llama's reaction to charter here, so I am thinking the bolded portion of this quoted post of Almaster is an attempt to get an even stronger reaction.

Nah, as experienced as spyrex appears to be, if you were scum you would be very interested in who spyrex thought was town. Scum is always wary of experienced players, and would be very interested in their scum/town picks.

This looks like an exaggeration.

I like how podium thinks Llama is town. Town points for podium.

Overall, I'm thinking llama, podium, and hiphop look townish, and I suspect SpyreX, SSBF, charter, however there are others who I am beginning to suspect more.

[Wickedestjr]

Also SSBF- Wicked is claiming that Sando is skipping questions. If Sando is, is Sando scummy for that? Oh...wait...Sando is the guys you are buddying with. My bad.

Really? He seems to show suspicion of Sando here. Are you sure about that?

1. I am basing my read that nopoint is indeed town at this moment because he claimed miller. Again am I scummy?
2. Those points were the reason as to why you voted for him. If he ignores them, what changed? Or are you saying you bs'd those reasons, so technically your vote on Sando was bs as well.
3. I would think that if KK was scum, then np is possible scum. Or you would at least look at him in a scummy light? Or are you agreeing with Spyrex that np's claim is townie?

1. Why do you think he is town? I didn't realize you thought nopoint was town. I don't think SpyreX's stance on the miller claim makes hardly any sense, but I didn't know/remember what your stance was.
2. Yeah. I bs'd those reasons. But seriously, I found SpyreX more suspicious when I switched my vote.
3. All I've learned from the game in which I lost to a miller is that I need to be more wary of scum claiming miller. I don't look at him in a scummy light because he claimed miller nor do I think he looks like town for claiming miller. I am not going to judge nopoint based off of his claim, but based off of his behavior.

Why was his play so inspired that game? Yeaaaa that whole reason why THAT was so inspired has a direct correlation here. And not in the OMG META F-- way you're aiming for.

What made his play so inspired that game?

I'm 'suspicious' of anyone who I don't think of as town, do you disagree with this statement?
Suspicious is not obv-town
Scummy is...scummy.

I consider suspicious to equal scummy.

If you're going to get all indignant about missing questions, how about actually pointing out what I've missed instead of just making arbitrary statements.

First of all, I had to ask several times for you to respond to any of my questions, and I think one of my questions you didn't answer until another player asked you. But here is what I'd still like a response to:

Sup, this game started just as I went to bed, then work, then bludging around at home, so post time!

I'm aussie btw, so GMT +10. This would make about a dozen games for me.

Hiphop was looking very good till the vote on almaster. The whole 'I'm going to act like an idiot to catch opportunistic scum' was a bit labored, and I think hiphop isn't addressing why almaster actually voted for him.

Podium is most town by far so far.

Questions:

Wicked, jumping over RVS questions pings my radar, they're a fairly common tool used, mainly to move the RVS along, why do you appear to dislike them?

Hiphop/Crypto, why, simply because almasta decided to call hiphop obnoxious, does that automatically mean that's what the vote is for?

Hiphop, why does there being no connection between obnoxious and scummy mean you're not scummy?

His third question (the bolded) also seems a bit odd to me. Looks like he is either trying to defend almasterg too much or is using a weak argument against hiphop.

Post 64 Sando is defending almasterg even more. Now it is beginning to get bad. First he questions hiphop for thinking that almasterg found him obnoxious but not suspicious, then he questions crypto for thinking almasterg found hiphop suspicious. That looks very contradictory.

So I ask you again, why am I scummy?

I've merely said that I'm suspicious of you for your current play. I haven't voted you, I haven't said you're scum, I haven't FOS'd you.

This is scummy. He completely avoids answering hiphop's question while at the same time he feels the need to point out that he hasn't voted, fos'd, or called hiphop scum.

Claiming not only miller but death miller at that juncture is a town move. Period. Now, if other evidence presents itself that isn't somehow OHH SNAP MILLER than sure. As it sits, town. That action is the most town thing to happen in this cluster.

Not even regardless of but BECAUSE of previous experience its a balls-out move and going one step further and claiming death miller is a death warrant. Hence, not a scum move.

Before you said that it was a balls-out move as scum especially as a death miller, which implies that it is a balls-out move even if he had claimed normal miller, so don't try and change what you said:

Nopo's claim is balls-out as scum and I'm not seeing it. At all. Especially as a death miller. Its gonna take a lot more than ohh sigh lets lynch the claimed miller.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm a Town Cop. In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion, every Night, I have the ability to investigate a person of my choice.

I'm going to respond to anything that I'm missing. I also promise a full analysis of everyone before the Day ends.

WTF are you doing? Are you even at L-1? Are you even going to be lynched? This claim reeks of fake.

What makes the claim so unbelievable?

I haven't finished catching up yet, but I am not yet sure what to think about charter and SSBF. I need to think it through.

[Wickedestjr]

However, I think from the wording of charters post that he sees the miller/cop combo as well, since he was 'suspicious of nopos claim', making the lack of vote even further worrying. I'm not sure why a gunsmith would cc a cop, but not a miller? Having a miller with a gunsmith seems just as unlikely as having a cop with a gunsmith? Why wait till now?

This is a good point. Regardless of how charter responds to this, I am still suspicious of the gunsmith claim. If the death miller is telling the truth, then the purpose of them being in the game is to make it impossible for town to figure out their allignment. There doesn't seem to be anything preventing the gunsmith from figuring out nopoint's allignment.

podium123456:

First thing that helped distinguish him is that he manage to make a decent point against crypto, basically saying he asked almost everyone to explained there town/scum list yet place a vote on me without explaination. His analysis on June 14, 2010 is good, I will admit, but it also felt force, since it was basicall a respond to hiphop, who told him to take a stance on someone.

I will say that he is one of the better players in the game, thought. His scum hunting technique is somewhat unique and works.

He has also commited almost no scum tells in the game so far. Overall, I'm giving him a considerable town read.

Can you elaborate on the bolded portion?

I'm not done catching up yet. I had much less time than I expected. I will try my best to finish catching up tomorrow. My current thoughts after reading up to this post are the following:

*Llama looks like town. Probably one of my strongest town reads in the game. I would prefer if we didn't lynch him.
*It is unlikely that SSBF and charter are both scum.
*SSBF's summary of his claim seems odd:

I'm a Town Cop. In addition to being able to vote and voice my opinion, every Night, I have the ability to investigate a person of my choice.

The word 'opinion' seems like a strange word to use in this role pm. Mine doesn't use that word. Charter, how about your role pm?


*Having both a death miller and gunsmith in the game seems like an odd combination. I doubt both are in the game.
*Having both a cop and a gunsmith in the game isn't extremely unusual. I wouldn't be surprised if a mini game had two investigative roles.
*If charter and nopoint are telling the truth, then SSBF's claim seems a bit odd. With rare roles like death miller and gunsmith in the game, cop doesn't seem to fit well.
*Charter's role is probably the only way to figure out if nopoint is town or not. Therefore, I think charter should investigate nopoint, and I also think a protective role should protect charter. That way we will most likely learn if nopoint is on our side or not. I think this was said by a few other players already, but I also think that it will probably be a good idea for SSBF to investigate charter.

[Wickedestjr]

Ok... Where's the question there? Can you at least see why I might be confused, you're quoting statements, not questions. Questions end with question marks (?), to get it you hold shift, then press the / key...

Just because some of my points don't have question marks beside them doesn't mean you should just ignore them. ???

In answer the the statement about trying to defend almaster or attacking hiphop, I was trying to point out a problem why Hiphops reasoning was illogical, and trying to generate discussion.

Okay, well it seemed like a pretty pointless question.

In answer to your second statement about questioning hiphop about not being suspicious, where did I ever say that I didn't think almaster found hiphop suspicious.

You didn't actually say that, but you questioned crypto for thinking otherwise here:

He made an observation about hiphop and then voted hiphop. I assumed the two items were connected as opposed to bizarrely disconnected.

Why would it be a bizarre disconnect? Not everything scum do is scummy, not everything town do is townie. Why does finding someone obnoxious mean that you find them scummy? Do you normally find obnoxious people are scummy in your games?

???

Really? Really?

A cop so not-subtly says he's got a guilty. KK pre-empts the guilty by claiming miller - which is then, essentially, confirmed by the cop.

Now, if KK isn't the guilty he had that scum gets lynched AND there's room to lynch the miller claim. Net result being 2 dead scum. It was ballsy, but it paid off.

I still don't get it. Are you saying the difference between this game and that game is that he was investigated in that game? How does that make his play so inspired.


@nopoint, do you know if you would be seen as having a gun if the gunsmith investigated you? Can you ask the mod?

[Wickedestjr]

If Spyrex has the same view that as you, yet you find that view to be still scummy, does not that make you scummy too? So are you saying you are scum?

I don't see where SpyreX shares my view of the miller claim in the link you provided. If that is the view he claims to have then that only makes my vote for him better, because immediately jumping to the conclusion that he is town shows no cautiousness.

Also Wicked there is a difference between that game's miller and our game's miller. The biggest difference is that in that game the claimed miller waited until after the cop investigated and got a guilty before claiming. In our game the cop has not investigated nopo, and better not, we now have a saved investigation, which can be used somewhere else. Hence pro-town. And that alone is big.

This isn't true. The claimed miller claimed in I think the second post of the game. The cop posted after him.

It was a gamble. A huge gamble that paid off because he was the one who got investigated and did it in such a way that the investigation helped strengthen his claim.

I'm still confused. How did this investigation strengthen his claim? I don't see how the investigation has anything to do with it, because nobody even noticed it and he claimed before the person who investigated breadcrumbed it.

am i right? or am i confused? we wont be able to trust either investigation unless one of them is lynched and flips scum. although... wait a minute... maf will HAVE to kill one or both of them eventually. after they flip town, all their previous investigations will be useful. so let them both ride until maf kills them, perhaps? we will have some leverage over the night kills that way... it forces maf to kill a cop, or they can risk an investigation occurring.

You are forgetting the possibility of charter or SSBF being scum.

Does "Let's do this" shown here insinuate that he is undecided on who to lynch, or pretty rock solid that he is indeed lynching the cop?
ANSWER IT.

I interprated it that he wanted to lynch one of the cop claims. I agree with you that it is odd that he didn't make the first move however. I can see how it looks like he is waiting for us to decide what to do.

Unvote. Vote: Nopointinactingup.

I would prefer lynching him instead of SSBF or Llama right now.

[Wickedestjr]

I apologize for not posting today. I have fallen behind and not being able to get on a computer today only makes things worse. After skimming the thread I see I have gotten a few votes. I will try to address those in the 21 hours we have left.

Mod

thank you for the deadline extension!

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Sando.

I think that's the hammer.

[Wickedestjr]

Mod: I'm going to be V/LA from Monday until Sunday.

[Wickedestjr]

Almaster, in that case, why not vote somebody?

[Wickedestjr]

After Sando flipped scum I was 90% certain that llama was town. I think Almaster is insane if he is really a cop.

I am very anxious to here from the other cops.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, just a reminder, I'm going to be gone the next seven days and will have no computer access.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back and I plan to start catching up soon.

[Wickedestjr]

Still catching up. I have another game to catch up in, so if I seem slow that's why.

I just read pages 16 & 17 and I think crypto is looking better while charter is looking worse.

[Wickedestjr]

let's look at the potential candidate each person is willing to vote:
Podium: Wicked/Sando
Crypto: Wicked/Almaster
Nopoint: Wicked/Hiphop/Sando
Spyrex: Podium/ Llama
Charter: Llama/ Podium/ Nopoint/ SSBF
Almaster: Podium/ Llama/ SSBF
Hiphop: Nopoint/ Sando
Sando: Llama/ Nopoint
Wicked: Nopoint/ Llama/ SSBF
Llama: Sando
SSBF: Nopoint
Hayker: Everyone

Is this serious? I don’t suspect Llama AT ALL. In fact he is my strongest town read in the game. I’m pretty sure I made that clear. In addition, are you completely forgetting my suspicions of SpyreX and Sando? This tells me that you aren’t even paying attention. More scum points for you.

SIR YES SIR

Unvote, Vote: Sando

I'm on record, again, that there is a scum between charter and SSBF.

I'm also on record that today has been more retarded than most.

I'm additionally on record that if this is a town flip llama dies soon. And if that is a scum flip podium dies.

Why would podium be scum if Sando flipped scum? Podium was one of the strongest supporters of the Sando lynch.

Hiphop, why is that you vote charter because you don’t like there being both a Mafia Godfather and a gunsmith, yet didn’t find it voteworthy that there was a gunsmith and a death miller?

@SSBF - I think we should lynch llama before you. If he flips town, then I'm insane and you might be cop. If he flips scum, like I STRONGLY suspect, then you're 100% confirmed scum, no ifs ands or buts. Also consider the fact that you were insanely scummy yesterday, so there's no reason I should believe anything you say at all.

This makes no sense. You think it is likely that there are an insane and sane cop in the game if llama flips town, yet doubt that this is the case if llama is scum. Why is that?

Almaster story 2 is wifom. If anything I would rather lynch SSBF before Llama. Why? Because if he flips town, you are 100% town, even though you probably are. If scum then it is wifom.

Now you are making no sense. You are considering the possibility of Almaster being insane so why aren’t you considering the possibility of hiphop being insane?

[Wickedestjr]

I just read pages 19-21 and I think I’m going to

Vote: Charter

for reasons hiphop mentions here. In addition, day 1 his suspicions were all the most popular candidates and overall he hasn’t really contributed much of his own thoughts and ideas from memory.

I have no idea why you guys are voting Llama, but I am 99% positive that he is town. @Everybody on the Llama wagon – Do you actually think Llama makes sense as one of Sando’s scumbuddies?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm going on vacation for the next 2 weeks but I should have computer access for most of that time. Don't expect too much posting from me during that time (I also don't know if I'll be able to post every day during this time), but I'll try to get a post or two in each day.

[Wickedestjr]

I was starting to suspect SSBF after the day 2 ended, but charter's flip suggests that SSBF is town. I need to think about the game a little bit.

[Wickedestjr]

Something we need to know is who Llama protected. That person is confirmed town. I'll take a look at who Llama thought was town.

[Wickedestjr]

hiphop, what happened to your very strong town read here? I seem to have been taken off of your town list.

AlmasterGM is confirmed town. I don't know if this has been said yet, but think about it: There is most likely one scum left. It is very likely that SSBF is a sane cop. If he is town, then that means he is telling the truth about AlmasterGM being town. If SSBF is scum then he's the only scum left and therefore AlmasterGM is town. A setup in which there is a sane cop, insane cop, death miller, and a mafia godfather looks very likely so I'm currently thinking AlmasterGM, SSBF, and nopoint are all town. That leaves hiphop, SpyreX, and crypto. I'm not sure which one of those three I feel like voting right now, but I also need to read the last two pages.

[Wickedestjr]

Why would podium be scum if Sando flipped scum? Podium was one of the strongest supporters of the Sando lynch.

Uhh?

I say nothing about Poduim as scum if Sando is scum.

Yes you did:

SIR YES SIR

Unvote, Vote: Sando

I'm on record, again, that there is a scum between charter and SSBF.

I'm also on record that today has been more retarded than most.

I'm additionally on record that if this is a town flip llama dies soon.

And if that is a scum flip podium dies.

In the bolded portion of this post you say that if Sando flips scum that podium dies. I assume by "dies" you mean "gets lynched the next day" otherwise the underlined portion of this post makes no sense. If Sando flipping scum makes you want to lynch podium that implies you think Sando and podium could be scumbuddies. That makes no sense to me.

[Wickedestjr]

@Almaster's vote against me -

1. I was right about Llama being town so why are you even using this point against me?
2. The bad feelings from Llama, Sando, and SSBF were from page 3. Were you seriously expecting my reads to stay as they were after reading three pages of the game? This is a terrible point.

Vote: crypto

This is mostly POE but if I have time I'll try to give a case.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm a Vanilla Townie. I would like crypto to claim next.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm starting to suspect hiphop a bit more. First he gets in an argument with Almaster despite him being confirmed town. In addition I don't like how he supports lynching SSBF by using WIFOM.

[Wickedestjr]

1. Did you, like, read my post? The whole point is that you were mysteriously right when you had no logically established chain of thought to feel so.
2. The inbetween is a massive black box. Obviously your feelings for Sando stayed the same.

1. I'm pretty sure I explained my strong town read.
2. I don't see what you are trying to say here. The point you were using against me was that my reads changed. What does that have to do with this?

1) my argument with Almaster was basically me arguing that you were town and saying Almaster's case was horrible (are you saying that it was a good case, that shouldn't be disputed?), and me arguing why Almaster has flipped on SSBF, when he is scummy.(Can't even argue about who is scummy anymore) I am for scum for that? HA. and 2) how is my case on SSBF wifom, when I hadn't presented it yet? Did you not read the last sentence in this quote, or are you assumung things? Scum for that? Go find a better case.

1)Why did you feel the need to show why Almaster's case was bad?
2)Your argument was that SSBF had to be scum because he hadn't been killed yet. That is WIFOM. Also, what made SSBF surviving any different from Almaster surviving?


@The comments regarding me -

1. My inactivity has been the exact same in my other game that just ended and the game I'm modding. It's not just this game.
2. Where are the parroting accusations coming from? I've come up with many of my own points against players.


crypto, why exactly do you suspect me?

[Wickedestjr]

Crypto, do you think the reasonless votes on you are suspicious?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm sorry for my inactivity. I didn't expect my V/LA to be this bad. I'll try to catch up and get a post in tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Well, I've read everything except for hiphop's last post but I'm pretty sure some of the questions/comments in my previous post have been ignored.

At the moment I will be very happy as long as crypto, SpyreX, or hiphop are lynched today. Preferably crypto or SpyreX, but hiphop has been giving me a bad feeling today and I haven't read his response to me yet. I admit I am a bit lost right now and desperately need to do a few isos.

I will be extremely annoyed if we lynch SSBF. I would like it if he survived at least another day or two.

[Wickedestjr]

Funny thing is, he is right. Though it is strange how he can be pretty sure of something that he hasn't read.

You weren't the only player who hadn't responded to everything in my post and I had read everything except your post.

Did not realize these comments were directed at me.
2.[A:here] and [B:here] are a couple of examples. Again your missing the point, it is was about the fact that you felt the need to repeat sometimes.

They weren't necessarily directed at you.
2. A was a post of podium's and B was a post in which I explained why AlmasterGM was confirmed town. I don't see how I am parroting.

Wicked if you are going to suspect me, at least have the decency to tell me why. Also, why do you feel it necessary to let SSBF live a couple of extra days?

My reasons for suspecting were mostly a strange gut feeling combined with the points I brought up today. I think SSBF should live because he is very likely town. Why would charter CC SSBF?

By the way the case I promised yesterday just went out the window. Everytime i iso wicked, I get straight up town. And i mean everytime. i thought maybe I could bypass the town part, but I can't, the guy is town.

Didn't you just say this:

It is not about the inactivity. It is about contributing to the game.

If you are hard to read, do not blame me.

It is your job, to be townie if you are townie, not my job to say you are townie, because your activity level is the same as other games. That is not the point. I believed I used the word non-entity, as in non-factor, and that is what I mean. It seems to me that you are not contributing to the game,almost floating by, and that is scummy.

? Also, what was the case?

Among other things:

*If charter and nopoint are telling the truth, then SSBF's claim seems a bit odd. With rare roles like death miller and gunsmith in the game, cop doesn't seem to fit well.

What is your point here?

I think I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

Now that hiphop has defended against my points I'm beginning to think he's town. I also think that crypto's response to the bandwagon looks townish. It seems like he has just given up which is an unusual thing to do as scum if he's the only one left. I'll try to build a case against him.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP:

Funny thing is, he is right. Though it is strange how he can be pretty sure of something that he hasn't read.

You weren't the only player who hadn't responded to everything in my post and I had read everything except your post.

Did not realize these comments were directed at me.
2.[A:here] and [B:here] are a couple of examples. Again your missing the point, it is was about the fact that you felt the need to repeat sometimes.

They weren't necessarily directed at you.
2. A was a post of podium's and B was a post in which I explained why AlmasterGM was confirmed town. I don't see how I am parroting.

Wicked if you are going to suspect me, at least have the decency to tell me why. Also, why do you feel it necessary to let SSBF live a couple of extra days?

My reasons for suspecting were mostly a strange gut feeling combined with the points I brought up today. I think SSBF should live because he is very likely town. Why would charter CC SSBF?

By the way the case I promised yesterday just went out the window. Everytime i iso wicked, I get straight up town. And i mean everytime. i thought maybe I could bypass the town part, but I can't, the guy is town.

Didn't you just say this:

It is not about the inactivity. It is about contributing to the game.

If you are hard to read, do not blame me.

It is your job, to be townie if you are townie, not my job to say you are townie, because your activity level is the same as other games. That is not the point. I believed I used the word non-entity, as in non-factor, and that is what I mean. It seems to me that you are not contributing to the game,almost floating by, and that is scummy.

? Also, what was the case?

Among other things:

*If charter and nopoint are telling the truth, then SSBF's claim seems a bit odd. With rare roles like death miller and gunsmith in the game, cop doesn't seem to fit well.

What is your point here?

I think I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

Now that hiphop has defended against my points I'm beginning to think he's town. It looks like SpyreX is trying to fly under the radar right now or isn't really trying and he's beginning to look worse than crypto. I'll try to see if there's anything else I can find.

[Wickedestjr]

hiphop, this is the main reason why I didn't want to lynch SSBF. I hope you now understand why I couldn't have said that yesterday.

How'd the kill go through?

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry that was a relative's account. That was actually me.

The fact that we had absolutely no replacements is an amazing achievement for a Mafia game, as we would usually expect two to four replacements in a game. I'm in an ongoing game that already had four replacements and on Day 2, yet this game got none, that's something to brag about.

QFT. After playing 16 games on this site, I think this is the 2nd or 3rd time a game I've played in has required no replacements.

I am very satisfied with my performance this game. I highly suspected all of the scums, roleblocked two, suspected one from page 3, and helped expose SpyreX as the final scum.

I was a Town Roleblocker. As soon as I got my role pm I knew I could use my role as a means of investigation. If I roleblocked a player and there was no kill, that would indicate that the player I had roleblocked was scum and had submitted the kill. Night 1 I roleblocked charter, because I highly suspected him. Night 2 I roleblocked nopoint because I knew it couldn't hurt if he was telling the truth about his role. Night 3 I roleblocked SpyreX which allowed SSBF to get his result in. What I don't understand is how the kill also still got through. Hayker, can you explain how Almaster still ended up dying despite me roleblocking his killer?

The reason why I didn't claim day 3 was because I remembered what happened to Seacore in Classic Mafia. (He was a Town Roleblocker and was lynched because nobody believed his role) Secondly, I knew if I survived I could use my ability to catch the last scum. It was a foolproof plan as long as I roleblocked the right person (which I did), because if there was no kill, then I would know I picked the scum... and even if nobody believed me I would still be able to use the cop having successful investigations as proof that I had roleblocked scum. hiphop, this is one of the big reasons why I didn't want to lynch the SSBF.

Hayker, thank you for modding this game! I really enjoyed it.

Scum quicktopic?

SpyreX, was the meta point I brought up against you accurate?

[Wickedestjr]

I found the lurking suspicicious, but it seemed to help you fly under the radar. Why did you claim gunsmith? And who did you think your scumbuddies were?

[Wickedestjr]

Night Actions Night 1
AlmasterGM(Insane cop)-Llamaeatataco
Llamaeatataco(EBG)-SSBF(wicked if he was lynched, night action sent in early I thinks because of a V/la)
SSBS(Sane Cop)-AlmasterGM
Wickedestjr(RB)-charter

Mafia Kill-charter

Mafia RB(SpyreX)-Crypto

?

You are the Godfather of the mafia. You appear innocent to cop investigations. You are teamed with your

Roleblocker Wickedestjr

, and your Vanilla mafia charter. Together each night you decide on a town member to be killed, and which one of you three does the killing.

This is probably why Sando ignored my accusations directed at him for most of day 1. He must not've taken me seriously.


Regarding the setup, I think it was balanced slightly more towards the town. I think adding another power role to the scum such as a Mafia Role Cop would have made the setup more balanced. Aside from the errors, having two cops hurt the scum a lot.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP:

Night Actions Night 1
AlmasterGM(Insane cop)-Llamaeatataco
Llamaeatataco(EBG)-SSBF(wicked if he was lynched, night action sent in early I thinks because of a V/la)
SSBS(Sane Cop)-AlmasterGM
Wickedestjr(RB)-charter

Mafia Kill-charter

Mafia RB(SpyreX)-Crypto

?

You are the Godfather of the mafia. You appear innocent to cop investigations. You are teamed with your

Roleblocker Wickedestjr

, and your Vanilla mafia charter. Together each night you decide on a town member to be killed, and which one of you three does the killing.

This is probably why Sando ignored my accusations directed at him for most of day 1. He must not've taken me seriously.


Regarding the setup, I think it was balanced slightly more towards the town. I think adding another power role to the scum such as a Mafia Role Cop would have made the setup more balanced. Aside from the errors, having two cops hurt the scum a lot.[/quote]