Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[crypto]

/confirm

[crypto]

RVS question:
1. What Timezone do you live in? This will be important when we get into more important parts of the game and not everyone lives in the same time zone.

Eastern Time Zone.

2. How much experience do you have with Mafia?

Probably close to fifteen forum games, plus chat-based games.

3. How did you end up on Mafiascum?

Reading a forum Mafia game on another site.

4. Do you prefer RVS or RQS?

Indifferent.

5. Describe your play style (Optional)

Bitchy.

Vote: hiphop

—for great justice.

[crypto]

@

All

, do you generally prefer to lead or follow?

[crypto]

Also GTFO Spyre.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: AlmasterGM.

For greater justice.

[crypto]

Whatever floats your boat . . .

AlmasterGM, what's the connection between hiphop being obnoxious and hiphop being scummy?

Podium, why do you think hiphop is town?

SSBF, what do you think of the attacks on hiphop?

Also, I like my vote where it is. AlmasterGM is the correct wagon at this point.

[crypto]

Hiphop/Crypto, why, simply because almasta decided to call hiphop obnoxious, does that automatically mean that's what the vote is for?

He made an observation about hiphop and then voted hiphop. I assumed the two items were connected as opposed to bizarrely disconnected.

[crypto]

This game needs more voting.

[crypto]

This game needs more voting.

Unvote

[crypto]

Also,

I'ma be V/LA from June 18 to June 26

.

Mod Edit:Noted

[crypto]

Why Sando?

[crypto]

Llama, why SSBF for town?

[crypto]

And for the beautiful triple post: llama, why exactly is AlmasterGM scummy to you?

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan.

[crypto]

If that's a catchup post...try again.

I agree.

More later.

[crypto]

Also, i dont like how you have asked nearly everyone to expand on why they think someone is town or scum... yet you place a vote on SSBF and say absolutely nothing as to why you did.

You're implying hypocrisy. What about it is hypocritical?

[crypto]

Spyre, you're scum this game aren't you? It's getting to be that time of year again.

[crypto]

No. What about not giving a reason while asking for certain reasons is hypocritical?

[crypto]

I love semantics. People say they're a waste of time but I think I've caught scum with them or seen scum get caught with them more often than not.

And no, for now I prefer watching SSBF continue to awkwardly avoid acknowledging my vote.

[crypto]

It's not a very interesting reason anyway.

[crypto]

I might just not bother for a while.

[crypto]

I'm totally up for wagoning on Spyre but I don't want to lose the admittedly shallow and bland mystique of my vote on SSBF.

[crypto]

What the hell?

Unvote. Vote: nopointinactingup.

The SSBF vote was simply there because he was avoiding the thread while not avoiding other threads. It stayed when he failed to acknowledge it, which struck me as awkwardly indecisive, as though he didn't know how to react.

(I did say it wasn't interesting.)

SpyreX is scummy pretty much for the reasons Sando outlined. "Hrrrfff this start" followed by a lack of content that might counterbalance the "Hrrrfff"-inducing state of play is entirely uncool. Continuing in iso. 3, "SSBF: You are saying you have no 'scummy' reads on anyone? Really? Even baby steps is better than nothing" looks a bit lackluster to me, and so does the attached vote. He's done not much more in the rest of his posts.

And I was just gearing up for a vote hop when nopointinactingup blasted in with the uncalled-for miller claim. That makes me sad. I wish this site would be more strict in its game requirements for newbies.

[crypto]

I'm sorry, there were egregious quantities of moron in that post.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

[crypto]

That looks to me like a perfectly fine answer to hiphop's question.

[crypto]

Condescension and I go hand in hand.

[crypto]

And yeah, as I said much of that post of mine was moronic.

[crypto]

Yeah,

unvote; vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

. Spyre is still fairly scummy but not as much as before his blistering riposte. SSBF's early posts gave me an impression of a cautious player who doesn't quickly throw his votes around based on other players' cases, especially this soon, and his recent behavior's contradicted that. Whoop-dee-doo.

[crypto]

Actually, I just think I know what you're doing and where it will hopefully go and I want to see if it works.

Yo.

[crypto]

crypto - iso of him screams active lurker. seems verrry eager for a lynch on anyone ("more voting" "im up for a wagon on spyre"), lots of vote changing. scummy.

I think that you, sir, need an education.

Asking for more voting is not asking for a lynch. I don't know how you could possibly arrive at that conclusion. Don't construe the two as synonymous when they clearly are not.

I was in fact up for a wagon on Spyre because I found Spyre suspicious. Has it occurred to you that townies have an obligation to pressure players they find scummy? I think it's rather obvious that that is the point of the game.

What about "lots of vote changing" is scummy to you? How does shifting my vote around help my top-secret sinister scum agenda?

[crypto]

This is extremely sexy.

[crypto]

Please let's just hold hands and lynch SSBF.

[crypto]

Hi, I'll be catching up ASAP.

[crypto]

Lurking in recent posts? Are you fucking blind? I've been V/La for ten days and I'm rereading and taking my sweet time about it because I can. Go away.

[crypto]

This sucks violently. I'm tempted to not even post my reads because the last few pages have

completely

screwed them up, but whatever. I'm pretty sure they're mega bad.

TOWN

charter
Sando
llamaeatataco
hiphop
Wickedestjr

SCUM

Super Smash Bros. Fan*
nopointinactingup
podium123456

NULL

AlmasterGM
podium123456
SpyreX

* Prior to cop claim.

AlmasterGM and SpyreX both induce headaches of vein-popping proportions. I keep wanting to call both of them scum but then they each come out with these posts that look genuinely town. They both have had some solid analytical posts and Spyre's rage train got to me—though I suspect I may just be getting soft.

I really don't see what all the rage about llamaeatataco is about. There are much better lynch options. His excitement about hearing opinions on his Sando case early on looked like eager town play, and his stuff at the top of page 8 also looked town.

Sando I had a town read early on but he's heading toward null. I feel like he's been gradually slipping out of site into the pool of text walls and such. I'll have to reread him in isolation though.

Podium I originally had as a town read, but then I decided I was being way too lenient and bumped him down to null. There have been points where his uncertainty ("I can't meta these people, ergo I have poor grasp of the game, ergo I can't scum-hunt as effectively as we'd all like me to, ergo durr hurr") has really made me itch, but other than that I've got nothing on him. I think he could become a lot more transparent as the game goes on.

Right up until his cop claim I wanted to day-vig SSBF up the butt and around the corner, he was so scummy. At this point lynching a claimed cop is too dicey for my liking regardless of the likelihood of a cop and gunsmith being in the same game. I'm not as confident as I'd like to be about any other scum read at this point (goddamn this game) except for nopointinactingup.

This guy.

Persistently his posts have been lacking in proactive scum hunting and devoted primarily or solely to defending himself. A death miller in a mini normal makes me want to cut. And now he's accused me of lurking in recent posts, as though I wasn't V/LA for over a week, and I struggle to imagine how he could legitimately see it that way if he was really paying attention to the thread: There's a stark difference between crypto lurking in recent posts and crypto not even having any posts for page after page after page.

We're at an impasse with the cop versus gunsmith claims, and while I'm inclined to believe charter and write off SSBF as scum, I'm not comfortable with lynching a cop claim on day one. Therefore, let's get the guy who claims death miller in a mini normal and is scummy outside his role claim. If he's town he's a distracting wreckage of WTF. If he's scum he's a distracting wreckage of WTF and also scum. Either way, I don't want him alive later on.

Unvote. Vote: nopointinactingup.

---

Sparking a bw, anticipating a popular lynch candidate, etc.

Nix.

Sparking a bandwagon? Damn straight. Anticipating a popular lynch target? I don't need to fling my vote around to do that. Etc.? Hurr.

Would SSBF put in this much effort as scum about to be lynched?

I'm not just a miller, I'm a death miller ( guilty even in death ), thus my role can be manipulative even without the cop.

This rubs me way, way, way wrong.

[crypto]

To clarify those lists, podium is a null read, not a scum read.

[crypto]

To clarify those lists, podium is a null read, not a scum read.

[crypto]

And double posts make me squeal.

[crypto]

Hiphop, sometimes you make me go

[crypto]

In an am-I-sure-about-this-town-read way, even though I usually can't quite put a finger on why.

[crypto]

@Cryto: The moment someone call your name you wag your tail and come out huh? And I didn't say you were lurking the entire game but I'm most uneasy with your bluff and contentless posts. Right now I don't have an obvious scum candidate like many of our "professional" scum hunters do, so I'm actually not willing to lynch anyone. But your over-defensive posts is noted.

You are just phenomenally blind. I WAS OUT WASHING DENTAL INSTRUMENTS IN HONDURAS FOR TEN DAYS. I DID NOT HAVE COMPUTER ACCESS. THAT MEANS I WAS V/LA. I WAS NOT LURKING. I DID NOT COME OUT WHEN YOU CALLED MY NAME. I CAME OUT WHEN I RETURNED FROM THE FANTASTIC LAND OF V/LA.

[crypto]

Okey, lynch.

[crypto]

If charter investigates nopointinactingup then he'll flip guilty, so it's a waste of time.

[crypto]

HURRF. I misread. That's actually a good idea.

Unvote.

[crypto]

Vote: AlmasterGM.

I'm going to stick my head in a toilet.

[crypto]

This is stupid. SSBF continues to be hella scummy and he'd better be on a helluva short leash tomorrow. Am I the only one who finds AlmasterGM (vaguely) suspicious?

[crypto]

That was very town of you, podium. Nicely done.

[crypto]

Wanna wagon him real quick?

[crypto]

SSBF is flat out scummy-->No way a miller can be in this game without a cop---> Believe there is only 2 scum--->SSBF is scum, so is nopo

This is exactly what I thought.

[crypto]

Hm. I disagree with just about all of charter's post. Let's get Almasta instead. Or Spyre.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: Wickedestjr.

Good call by podium, though I liked Wicked better in the town column. Let's just lynch this guy and lynch SSBF tomorrow when he doesn't come up big. Wahoo.

[crypto]

Podium is right. Everybody attacking him is wrong. I'm not entirely satisfied with the prospect of lynching Almaster, but podium's case is the best thing out there at this point.

[crypto]

FOS: SpyreX.

Podium is bleeding town and everybody knows it. The last two pages have been completely ridiculous. We have podium having to put up with total bullshit attacks from only two players, hiphop and SpyreX, while Almaster snipes from the sidelines and

everybody else

lurks. What does that tell you?

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

Thanks bunches for the extension, Mod.

[crypto]

Look i get it... you think that because i have mentioned suspicion of everyone except llama, that we are scum partners. One, it's not just llama. Two, you are free to assume whatever you want... so... like.. whatever man.

The sad thing is that for the most part I thought llama was violently town. Ex.:

Someone please read my last post please... And comment on it, even if you're just telling me I'm retarded.

[crypto]

My "homey" said he was

looking at Spyre and Almaster

. He then decided against choosing either as a lynch target. No lie there. Sorry. Not only that, but saying he was looking at you two and then taking the hard way out by finding something on Wickedestjr and posting a solid case is taking the hard way out. It shows he was really was poking around hunting scum, and the extra effort and transparently honest nature of finding a third person instead of sticking comfortably with his initial suspects is a violent town tell.

Podium is a fucking horrible lynch and the wagon on him is blatantly scum driven. Almaster is even scummier now with his latest post, which contains both a lot of vigor and a lot of piggybacking and smells phony in general. Seeing as Spyre is apparently too revered for anyone here to even consider as scum,

unvote; vote: AlmasterGM

.

[crypto]

Actually.

Unvote. Vote: Wickedestjr.

That's safer. Wagon plox.

[crypto]

SSBF is also scum. I'll lynch him too if people are up for it. I know I was reluctant to earlier.

[crypto]

Will you lynch Wickedestjr?

[crypto]

Oh, that quote. No, that still looks like a huge stretch. I don't see what's so scummy about it in any case.

And now I'm antsy about an SSBF lynch because of the people saying they could get behind it. I

could

see Spyre-scum defending Wicked-scum by attacking podium here. But it's a hell of a lot better than a podium lynch so whatever.

[crypto]

Welp, I dont even know what to say if you can look at that and go OHH NO WAY HE WANTS YOU LYNCHED.

He was considering you as a potentially good lynch. That's an perceptible notch below wanting to lynch you.

[crypto]

If I say "Crypto is a good lynch" and then don't vote you because "Well that doesn't mean I ACTUALLY want to lynch Crypto" what in the hell is that?

Potentially good lynch, not good lynch.

I'm willing to vote SSBF, Wickedestjr, and AlmasterGM. I'm not willing to vote podium. I will very reluctantly vote llamaeatataco (town read) or nopointinactingup if we really must.

[crypto]

And SpyreX, are you accusing me and podium of being scum buddies just because I have a different read on him than you?

[crypto]

I don't see how it's semantics. One is considering you as a lynch option. One is proposing a lynch on you. There's a pretty stark difference the way I see it.

WAKE UP TOWN.

Generally the town has been dead asleep for the last four or six games I've played on this site.

[crypto]

Nopo's 'I'm going to vote myself, ahah! anyone that voted me is scummy' is pretty silly at this stage as well, well it's silly at any stage, but it's stupid to play around like that so close to deadline, puts Nopo well up in scum-stakes.

As stated, we need a lynch, Llama and Nopo are both at the same votes and I think Llama is the better of the two.

Could you explain why llama is/was a better lynch than nopo?

[crypto]

Spyre and SSBF and Wicked had better be drilled tomorrow.

[crypto]

Why don't you think Sando will flip scum AGM? Are you trying to build false town cred?

I approve of this post.

[crypto]

AlmasterGM, why did you not counterclaim SSBF yesterday?

[crypto]

Never mind.

[crypto]

The question I meant to ask is why you put no pressure whatsoever on SSBF after his claim.

[crypto]

Why would charter-scum fake-claim gunsmith at that interval, hiphop?

[crypto]

Given what we know the optimal move here would probably be to lynch llamaeatataco, which is a shame because I really think he's town.

If there are both a sane and insane cop then how does the (death) miller fit in? Maybe one of the cops is naive or paranoid.

[crypto]

Well Almasta, I don't think the pressure you put on SSBF was really decisive enough to refer back to it, but I'll play along.

Vote: llamaeatataco.

[crypto]

Spyrex

What?

[crypto]

Spyrex

What?

Are you saying Spyrex is scum? Spyrex voted Sando. right? Are you saying every scum candidate voted their godfather? Brillant move scum, outing your godfather pretty much confirming there is a cop. Admit it, SSBF is the correct lynch.

I don't see why you'd lynch the CC over the guilty at this point, especially since there's already a miller claim. And getting Spyre to vote Sando was like pulling teeth.

[crypto]

Mmhmm.

[crypto]

Llama:

Why would charter-scum fake-claim gunsmith at that interval, hiphop?

[crypto]

I don't think charter would fail that hard.

So?

[crypto]

He's a smart and competent player.

[crypto]

I'm not assuming he's scum. If he's really a gunsmith then counterclaiming SSBF was reasonable enough.

[crypto]

We're busy being indecisive. They're busy being lurker scum. I'm still puzzling over sacrificing you, a town read, to dig a little deeper into the cop deadlock.

[crypto]

Unvote.

[crypto]

Vote: Wickedestjr.

[crypto]

Shut up; I'm stalling. Also, I forgot about his V/LA note.

Unvote.

Charter's play smells funny but I still can't get over his claim.

[crypto]

Right now SSBF is a pretty tantalizing lynch, but I'm puzzled by his report on Almasta. Charter would appear to be the odd man out but ugh.

More tomorrow if I muster the motivation. I see your point, llama, but I don't think "He did it to look pro-town" is a very good argument. Sounds too much like the Too Townie fallacy.

[crypto]

Roleblocking charter would've been the best move for scum to make since if here were gunsmith he'd be crucial to determining nopo's alignment.

On the other hand, they could just kill him. Hmm.

[crypto]

Llama, with respect to the mod question thing, if there's a gunsmith and a death miller then I would think one solves the puzzle of the other.

Nopo, I don't think your push on Sando clears you whatsoever, since it could have been a bus, and you are still a huge question mark. Charter investigating you would still be huge - he'd be a high priority for town protective roles and consequently a risk to try to kill. Keeping you, charter, and SSBF all alive while roleblocking charter keeps both your alignment and the SSBF/charter tangle in the dark.

Also, you're talking very much from your POV and nobody else's, so I dunno.

OH YEAH BY THE WAY, I don't think I've put enough emphasis on my scum read on Spyspy.

Vote: SpyreX.

Woohoo.

[crypto]

Llama, I know what the Too Townie fallacy is. I also know they're not the same thing. I think your case is garbage in a similar way. Do I need to be any more clear?

[crypto]

Almaster, who's scum with llama?

SSBF, why didn't you investigate charter?

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan.

I still want to dangle Spy at some point in the near future.

[crypto]

Fine.

Unvote. Vote: llamaeatataco.

Let's see how this flies. In case it wasn't obvious, I admit my interest/inspiration has hit a huge roadblock. So if Spy is town then he's probably doing it right and I'm doing it wrong. I still have gut reservations about him but objectively I agree that llama is the play here. Spy keeps making these brilliant posts anyway which make me want to open my veins because I like him in the scum column and that's making it really hard and yeah.

[crypto]

Also WTF is going on? Yeah guys podium was a death godfather so what the fack no shut up lunacy misunderstandings.

[crypto]

AGM and SSBF are town.

Vote: SpyreX.

[crypto]

Oh, and llama, go the fuck home.

[crypto]

AGM and SSBF are town.

Unless of course AGM faked to get llama lynched.

[crypto]

I also didn't want to lynch charter or Sando (although I admit I warmed up a little to Sando toward the end of day one). I also was inclined to believe charter's claim, possibly at the expense of believing yours. What's the difference between me and Spy?

[crypto]

Hi. I lost Internet three days ago in a storm. I've read/skimmed the last three pages and I'm furious right now. Catchup post coming later today.

[crypto]

ok, not Wicked.

Nice case.

I could maybe swing behind a crypto lynch but, sans votes, wicked has been a non-entity.

Lol.

And I iso'd Crypto. At one point he had charter and Sando as town. Never once attacking either.

So did many people. Yourself included, if my memory's right. But then I was also the one who violently defended both podium and llama, and I caved on the latter only because it seemed to be the best way to solve the PR puzzle. If you are going to use my reads to gauge my alignment then you'd best be less selective.

Yeah ... My bad, Crypto's play is kinda cryptic. And an iso on him proves that there is an even clearer connection between him and the confirmed scums. In addition, he didn't hammer Sando and voted Llama for almost no reason.

For no reason? You're funny. You're also not paying attention. I'm too lazy to review your own reads this game, but there's a strong scent of hypocrisy in the air.

Ok. I would be happy with a spyrex or crypto lynch. Preferably crypto, because I believe he has been more scummy than spyrex, but either one works. Also answer my question

Do you have a case or am I a gut read? What has Spy done all game that's put him a notch above me on the town ladder?

Moving on . . . Wicked makes me sad. That's okay though since he's made me sad most of the game.

That's right, do an ISO on crypto to see for yourself that he's scum. Spyrex also had a bit of a connection with Sando/Charter, but his post looks way more town.

You reek of unearned ego. Somebody should please drop a hammer on me to put you in your place.

The thing that gives me the most pause about crypto is the "why aren't you voting ME" callout at this juncture.

Yes, fishing to see if he was buddying up or feigning scum hunting was truly a scummy move of me.

SSBF is scummy

again

. I was really hoping to just knock him and AGM off the list but two things are troubling me: (1) his continually shifty play and (2) his roleblock claim. I'm not convinced he would have been the optimal roleblock target because, at least the way I see it, he's a hell of a lot less credible than AGM. But that's a bit of an unfair point for me to make, and he's still behind Spy and probably Wicked on my scum list.

[crypto]

Actually I retract that second point against SSBF altogether.

[crypto]

Spy, you said you were willing to get behind a crypto lynch and then you said what was giving pause about me. I took giving pause about me to mean giving pause about ME, not about LYNCHING me.

[crypto]

Can we lynch you anyway?

[crypto]

( )

[crypto]

You have no case. Well, you do, actually; you're saying I'm scum because I didn't have scum reads on charter and Sando, which I think could be said about a good deal of people in this game. You are using my reads as a point of determining my alignment but you are only sharing half the story, the other half of which includes strong town reads on podium and llama and reluctantly "lynching" llama only because that seemed to be the best way to cut through the game. You'll also recall that there were several times on day one when I could have pushed for a lynch on either SSBF or yourself, but chose not to—much to podium's approval, hurr—because while you were both scummy at the time it just wasn't the optimal move for the town.

[crypto]

Oh, VT.

[crypto]

Wicked: See the case on you podium made.

[crypto]

Hey Almasta do you actually have a reason for suspecting me or are you just hoping to spew righteous vitriol until I'm lynched?

[crypto]

Wicked, in case there's still any confusion you are some distance behind Spy in terms of scumminess. I find both you and SSBF to be increasingly town; what's troubling me is that (a) I'm very aware my reads on you three could be utter crap since I've evidently been unable to get a hold on this game thus far and (b) I'm not sure if cop/cop/bodyguard vs. godfather/roleblocker/goon with a miller is a balanced and therefore plausible setup. I guess there'd be sufficient confusion in a closed setup to throw off the town but it still looks town sided at face value. I dunno. I could be wrong. I'm not a setup guy.

[crypto]

No.

[crypto]

/lazy

[crypto]

SpyreX, Wickedestjr. Closely followed by SSBF.

I still don't get why I'm on the hot seat. I can see lazy play being it and I couldn't really blame you if that's the reason but that doesn't seem to be what people are getting at.

[crypto]

Okay, guys, methinks SSBF is not scum. SpyreX and Wicked, in that order, with a significant gulf between the two.

[crypto]

Hiphop, it boils down to a gut meta read. There are some particulars that look bad but I was just looking through them in iso. and there're also what look to me like town tells.

So I went to look through Wicked's iso.

Unvote. Vote: Wickedestjr.

Among other things:

*If charter and nopoint are telling the truth, then SSBF's claim seems a bit odd. With rare roles like death miller and gunsmith in the game, cop doesn't seem to fit well.

[crypto]

Oh yeah and remember podium's town flip, guys? I was thinking it was Spy axing the obv. townie, but Wicked axing the guy who pegged both himself and his teammate (Sando) also fits the bill.

[crypto]

Actually. Wicked also

fuck

Unvote.

I hate this goddamn game.

[crypto]

Any last word/ last contribution if you are town?

Naw, I'm dead weight this game. It's embarrassing actually. Just don't be surprised when your fallacious scum tells, by virtue of being fallacious, do not lead you to a scum lynch.

[crypto]

Although the laziness bit I admit is fair game. And I just quintuple-posted, and that's great.

[crypto]

Hiphop you're such a grinch.

Vote: SpyreX.

[crypto]

Hey that's technically the second time I've done that this game.

I'm never playing on this account when this is over.

[crypto]

I would but then I'd be lying.

[crypto]

This is just an embarrassingly fail game on my part. I'm such a hypocrite.

[crypto]

Cool! Let's lynch Spyre now.

[crypto]

That's funny, I'd actually gone back and miscounted. I thought it was legit.

[crypto]

Well this game was nearly auto win and now it is not. Jesus Christ guys.

1. Why does SSBF have a result?
2. The only way SSBF could be lying is if he's scum and there's another scum bucket out there. Otherwise we still have another mislynch and he'd get screwed tomorrow.

So the correct move here is axing SSBF, am I right?

[crypto]

Having said that,

vote: SpyreX

.

[crypto]

@%#$@%@#@%$#@, I came dangerously close to having 100% wrong scum reads this game. And I really am sorry. I completely lost all inspiration and self-discipline a few pages in.

[crypto]

It was just gut. I've played a game with Spy-scum and three or four games with Spy-town, and he felt less like Spy-town and more like Spy-scum. Also, there were several points in the game where I strayed toward SSBF and Wicked, and each time I did they looked less scummy than they before. So there was a widening gulf of suspicion between Spy and everyone else, which throws a little process of elimination into the mix.