Mini 237- Basic Mafia - Game over!

[Stewie]

vote: viqles

He knows what he did.

[Stewie]

It's not to brag, it's just to display. Good or bad.
Statistics don't just get better if you hide them.
And if you think my record here is so bad,
please continue to underestimate me
but maybe you should wait until after this game, when it will be 2/4 :b

I hope you mean 2/5

[Stewie]

Hm, ok...


He bought the complete first season of "Sex in the City."

[Stewie]

Isn't there anything better to talk about other than where we are from. Such as who is scummy. Granted, nobody said much yet, but we are not going to get anywhere by talking solely about where we are from.

Having said that, I don't mind a little conversation on the side. I'm in Canada right now.

...

[Stewie]

playing for real = stop playing?

Tip: don't change vote unless there's a reason to do so.

[Stewie]

Can we get a vote count please?

[Stewie]

I second the signature decrease (specially annoying in 600x800) and also request some input on what we've been doing so far.

[Stewie]

I'm here. I have not contributed much because I can't find something to say. Usually one can talk about the deaths, and from there try to speculate how many killing groups there are... someone screws up eventually. However, we do not have that advantage.

I will comment on the three quotations iba made. In the first one, I am suggesting we get back to the game because talking about where we are from will not get us anywhere if it's all we talk about. In the second one, I asked for a vote count because I intended to vote for Choco. Instead of saying "That's a very good point" or "I agree," I asked for the vote count to make sure I didn't provoke an accidental lynch. In the last one, I am stuck because I couldn't find anything substantial to say, and nobody else seemed to, so I asked the replacement to comment on the game. Replacements usually have something to add. The reason I did not add my vote at this point is because choco had already explained himself fully.

Furthermore, I had no idea you guys were looking for me. For some reasons, the past few days I've been looking at page 4, then telling myself "huh, no new posts" without checking the fifth page. I blame schooll, I've had two big tests on monday, plus a big english project due tomorrow. With all the work, this game slipped my mind.

Now that I'm here, I will

vote: commodore amazing

for the following:

Okay. I'll play for real.

Starting...

Now. unvote: viQLes

Unvoting without revoting stalls the game. There are situations in which I would find it acceptable, but that wasn't one of them.

Mr Stoofer, I think your case against Sineish is very weak. I do not think it's enough reason to vote for you, though.

Points out that Mr. Stoofer's reason to vote is weak when Mr. Stoofer himself had already pointed that out. That, plus the fact that he points it out but still doesn't vote for him strikes me as suspicious.

There's also what Seol mentioned. Since I mentioned how "playing for real = stop playing?" (I was in a hurry), CA did hold on to his vote tightly. At first he changed from one random vote to a baseless one, but after unvoting he took his time to vote again eventhough he voiced concern about the posts of two other players.

[Stewie]

unvote: viQLes, vote: Commodore Amazing

That's better.

[Stewie]

I'm just here to say I'm happy with my vote on Stewie. He apparently agrees with Seol's reasons against me. Seol didn't even call his vote logic; he called it a gut feeling. Stewie blames me for stalling the game, which I might have done, but that doesn't make me scum.

OK, let's start by the point you make about seol calling his own vote a gut feeling and me agreeing with him. Let's go back to what I said, shall we?

There's

also

what Seol mentioned.

(empasis just added)

What seol said was not the only reason for me to vote for you, but at least you tried to twist my words to make it seem like the only reason I was voting for you was thought as a weak one by even the person who came up with it. Secondly, I would say seol incorrectly labeled his vote as a gut feeling. Gut feeling is when you feel someone is scummy but you can't quite put your finger on it. Seol, on the other hand, explained his suspicion, which makes it a backed up argument, as weak as it may be (remember, it's not the only one I have).

As for stalling the game, of course it doesn't make you scum. Nothing does. But it certainly makes you a lot more likely to be scum, which makes this a pretty strong reason to vote for you. Think about it: the scum benefit from a stalled game in two ways. First, the lack of discussion makes the mod put a deadline. Two things can happen from here, either a townmember starts a lurker bandwagon, which would mean that the target is chosen practically at random, which would normally mean that it's more likely that they will pick another townmember, or the mafia can start the lurker bandwagon, which would mean that the target is defenetly a townmember. Secondly, the lack of discussion means lack of information. The more pages a game has, the easier it is for the town to win it.

[Stewie]

I think ChocoCid's reason for FoSing Seol back there wasn't very strong, but it doesn't seem voteworthy to me. Stewie seems like a much more worthy bandwagon.

Also note how he thinks that I'm much more voteworthy than CC, when he did not give any reason for my vote I hadn't explained already.

[Stewie]

I don't really see any valid reason to vote for Mr. Stoofer, other than a gut feeling. I can't really put my finger so I'll wait until he says something I can describe. ChocoCid, on the other hand, FOSed seol for making too much sense, which makes no sense. It is a common scum tactic, but it's also a common town tactic. Ideally, in the game of mafia you want everyone else to agree with you. It seems silly to even mention the fact that seol is "making too mcuh sense" as if it were suspicious.

I'll

unvote: commodore amazing, vote: chococid

to save my butt. After all, I know I'm not scum, but chococid might be.

[Stewie]

I would say that if you have to remove it/extend it, do so when there's little time left, and on your own judgement. If you remove it now, or remove it because we tell you, then the game will go right back to stalling.

[Stewie]

Someone give me a votecount so I can decide what to do.

Vote: Stewie

155:

I would say that if you have to remove it/extend it, do so when there's little time left, and on your own judgement. If you remove it now, or remove it because we tell you, then the game will go right back to stalling.

The game's active now, and retracting a deadline will not cause it to stall.

I didn't say "don't retract the deadline," I said "If you are going to retract the deadline, do it because you think so, not because the players tell you, and do it when there's less time left (such as two days instead of four).

[Stewie]

unvote: chococid, vote: nightfall

mainly to save my butt. By my count that's three votes for him and three for me. However, I will ask for a

deadline extention

. I know I said he shouldn't listen to us, but in case he is, I think we deserve one.

[Stewie]

I know I am not scum (100% sure) but I'm not so sure about nightfall. With the deadline comming up, I like the odds of lynching scum by lynching nightfall a lot better than by lynching me (which would be 0%). If there was no deadline, I would think my vote more throughly, which is why I requested a deadline extension. Until then, from my point of view the town has a higher chance of lynching scum if I put my vote on the person with the most votes that's not me. Also, I never claimed "townie." I am a townsperson, but I never said that I do not have any powers. I am not claiming that I'm not townie, by the way, just that I never said I wasn't. I never claimed anything.

[Stewie]

Odd wise, it works. It's not very likely that he's an unkillable cop. Plus, he's more likely than me to be scum. Plus, you don't know if I am the unkillable cop (which I'm not, but you didn't know that).

[Stewie]

It'd be good to know you're not scum, but there's no way for us to know that. And there's no way for us to know that Nightfall isn't scum. To us, you're just as likely to be scum as Nightfall. Why don't you try to convince us that Nightfall deserves votes and you don't instead of just trying to play the odds.

Of course you don't know, but I do. I control my vote, so that's all the incentive I need. Of course I'm as likely to be scum as nightfall from your point of view, but people had already voted for nightfall before I did, so I don't feel the need to convince them.

I'm perfectly happy with my vote on Stewie - he keeps changing his vote to whoever has the most to save himself, and people who were voting for Choco have switched to Nightfall.

d8p puts up a good arguement, Stewie. Care to defend yourself?

That's a good argument? Perhaps (I personally don't think so), but it's the same one you had. The reason I'm switching votes to save my butt is because I know I'm not scum but I don't know if other people are scum. Again, I'm doing this because of the deadline. If the deadline is retracted, I'll remove my vote and think my vote throughly, but right now I need to worry about the odds. I don't understand the point about everyone voting choco switching to nightfall.

[Stewie]

d8p: instead of voting, FOS. We'll add one to the vote count ourselves, and if someone reaches a mayority you can go ahead and vote for them. This would be as if you didn't have a restriction at all, allowing you to change your mind more. However, if you plan on FOSing more than one person, make clear who it is who you are "voting" for.

[Stewie]

Hmm... Right now I don't think it would be a bad idea to switch to vIQleS. I didn't think he would be a good lynch before, but his reaction to the posts by Falcone and Seol seems overly paranoid to me.

[Stewie]

The deadline in my timezone will be 2pm. I will be in school then, so here's what I'll do: I'll wait to see if viqles makes a defense (read: claim) before I go to sleep, and if he doesn't I'll vote. For now, I'll just

unvote: nightfall

so I don't have to write as much later at night when I have no energy.

[Stewie]

In that case I will apologize for my sucky playing now.

Go the town...

Well, if you are telling the truth, then you can always find confort in the fact that you've been away for most of the game, so it' kinda hard to think straight when you don't have the facts in. Anyways, since you claimed doctor, if you are tellingt he truth you are as good as dead. If you are not, then die, scum, die.

vote: viqles

[Stewie]

Ok, due to the doctor lynch, it's a bit safer to assume one killing group, although there are some scenarios in which two killing groups are still possible.

Right now it's nearly 2 am (technically nearly 1 am, since we have to change our clocks at 2 am, making it 1 am again) so I am really tired to think. However, I will look at other people who voted for the doctor. The fact that they were voting for him does not make them scummy (I voted for him too, after all) but there has to be scum there.

[Stewie]

I don't think reaction one is scummy at all. As town, I would have done one of the following:

A) ignore the accusation, since it was not explained.
B) ask why the accusation was given, without adding a vote
C) acknowledge the post, but say it's at least partly wrong.

These apply only in this situation, where Seol said who he thinks was scum

without

voting for them.

The only response that struck me as scummy is sineish's. However, I will wait for seol's full explanation, and a vote count, before adding my vote.

[Stewie]

Well, right now I'm waiting for a claim of some sort.

[Stewie]

I think we should lynch because of post 318. If sineish is scum we've found a strong link. If not, then we only lose a townie. Unless I'm missing something, I'll be voting tomorrow or the day after. If you think my logic is faulty in any way, please bring it to my attention, and the attention of others, so I can come up with something better. That's it for now.

[Stewie]

What seol said.

[Stewie]

I'm so lazy. Vote count please?

[Stewie]

Hm... Well, all things considered, I think I'll be wrapping this up. Feel free to cyber-beat me up tomorrow if you think I rushed the lynch, but I really don't think that there is much more to be discussed.

vote: sineish

[Stewie]

Hm... I gotta do some rereading... but not now, I just came from work and I'm really tired. Probably saturday/sunday, for sure by monday.

[Stewie]

Well, some of you might call me an idiot for doing this, but I am going to come out because I think it's the best for the town right now. I am a one-shot vigilante. The reason I am coming out is that with this new information, it is not the best idea to no lynch. There's also whether you trust me or not to consider, but the deal is that we are much better of getting two "lynches" (we decide who I should kill and then lynch someone else, and I kill at night) rather than going no lynch, letting the scum make a kill (probably d8p, which doesn't help us at all) and then being in this exact same situation the next day, but with one town less to decide correctly.

Before I elaborate on who to lynch, I'll remind you that it's late here and I wasn't even going to post in the first place, and let you ponder on this post (there's much to think about). I am hoping to be able to post suspicions by sunday.

[Stewie]

I was kinda hoping that we'd lynch, then I kill, because that way we decide two kills instead of just one, thus increasing the town's control over who is killed. However, if you find it necessary for me to kill in order to trust me, I don't have a problem with that either. It doesn't increase the number of kills the town has, but it clears me, and possibly narrows it down a bit more.

Now, we are in a really tricky situation because we haven't caught any scum yet, which makes a voting analysis close to useless. However, I think I can safely assume that there is at least one scum on every lynch, possibly even two. Now, if we compare both lynches and the people on them, excluding the dead and myself:

viQLes: Mr.Stoofer, Seol, Commodore Amazing
Sineish: Mr. Stoofer, Commodore Amazing, d8P, Seol

The only repeats are Commodore Amazing, Mr. Stoofer, and Seol. I don't think they are all scum, but it's very likely that at least one of them is.

CA random voted Mr. Stoofer, which is a common scum tactic. Later on (post 6 when you display CA's posts only) he says Mr. Stoofer's reasoning for his vote was weak, but didn't even FOS him. Also worth mentioning, CA's vote for Mr. Stoofer was the first, random vote. Then his next post he unvotes, and votes randomly again. Sounds like a weird thing to do, but it's somewhat undestandable if you were voting for your scum buddy.

On the other hand, Mr. Stoofer hasn't voted or FOS'ed CA, and the closest he's been from saying "you are suspicious" is his last post, where he asks CA to outline the reasons for his vote.

That's all I could gather up. In conclusion, I think that CA and Mr. Stoofer are in cahoots, but I don't know which one to vote for. Further, the day is young, so I'll have plenty of time to change my mind, so I don't want to put a vote on, let the mafia somehow pile on the votes, and regret it later.

[Stewie]

Given the situation, I would say that the other mason should come out... if we lynch wrong there'll be 3 non-scum players other than myself, one of which is d8P. I still have a 40% chance of messing up if I don't read the game right. If the mason comes out, then we have a greater chance. The mafia has plenty of targets as it is (d8P and myself) so one more wont make a difference, I think. Am I overlooking something, or should the mason come out? In fact, I think we should also discuss the merits of a mass claim. Giving info to the scum should not be a problem right now, we need to lynch right.

[Stewie]

Yeah, I want an explanation from Nightfall too. I also want to see how d8P hid the mason name. Basically useless now, but amusing nontheless.

[Stewie]

This is a pretty sticky situation. We know that either mike or nightfall is lying (or even both). I doubt it's both, because if that was the case mike would have probably corrected himself, but at least we narrowed it down to two, which is what we wanted to do. Now we have a bit of a dilema... nightfall seemed scummier throughout the game, but if mike is scum it is really important that we get rid of him.

[Stewie]

My thoughts:
Any other thoughts, questions? Was the game sufficiently balanced, or not?

Suggestion: If you are going to include a mafia mason, do not say anything to the effect of "you know each other to be pro-town." I was actually thinking about killing d8p, but decided against it because ChocoID said that his pm said that they could talk at night but where otherwise townies. That's my only complaint, and IMO what might have tipped the scales in favour of the scum. Even if we had gotten rid of Nightfall, we would not kill d8p. Information given in the role pm should always be 100% accurate.

Also, I guess I better explain why I didn't follow the plan (which was pretty useless given the circumstances anyways, but I'll go ahead and explain):

I kinda trusted Nightfall. My kill was split between d8p, mr. stoofer, and CA. d8p I didn't kill because, as mentioned above, was cleared by choco's death. As a result, my options were stoofer and CA. I decided to kill stoofer because I figured that if nightfall was cop as I believed, then it would pretty much win the game by confirming his sanity. Killing stoofer would do that. Nightfall could not possibly check falcone or d8p if he was town (waste of an investigation) therefore he would check either seol or commodore. By killing stoofer, he would know what his new result means. This was only helpful if stoofer was scum, if not killing ca or seol was pretty much the same.

[Stewie]

And killing d8P would have made no difference since seol protected him. That's why saying:

You are masons with ChocoCid and d8p. You can converse with them at night but are otherwise ordinary townies. You win with the town. Do not communicate tonight but simply confirm by PM since we begin in day.

is too much of an advantage. By the way, I just read your explanation, and I disagree. Saying that they are otherwise ordinary townies means that they are pro-town. If you are an ordinary townie you can't be anti-town.

[Stewie]

I thought about saying nothing at all about the other masons, but that would've tipped the scales too far into the town's favor, IMO, because they would have known by implication NOT to trust the fellow masons, which would have hurt scum big-time. So I went for the middle route. And it is possible for the town to find scum lurking within the masons- I've seen it happen.

Middle route?

[Stewie]

You can converse with them at night but are otherwise ordinary townies

The grammar in this sentence is incorrect, so my first thought would be to ask the mod for clarification. ~shrug~

Clarification for a grammar mistake? The only thing that's missing is a "they" in front of the "are otherwise..." but it is implied by the "them." And even if it was worded in such a way that it's "fair," it's still confusing enough to make it too much of an advantage for the town. I didn't vigi you because of it, and I'm pretty sure seol protected you because of it. I'm not really mad though, because I think we would have lost anyways (nightfall played extremely well) but it would have gotten us a bit closer to the win.

[Stewie]

A cop never lies about cop sanities. The mod says "each night you can investigate someone and get an innocent or guilty result." it is up to the cop to figure out if the result it accurate or not.

[Stewie]

I'm not fond of sk's in mini games... unless I'm it.