Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Shanba (2) -- Jahudo, Albert B. Rampage
Espeonage (1) -- NickF227
NickF227 (4) -- Javert, curiouskarmadog, dybeck, Espeonage
dybeck (1) -- boberz
Jahudo (2) -- Shanba, farside22

Not voting: Nobody
10 alive, 6 to lynch.

Deadline: June 20th, 10 pm GMT.

[Shanba]

ABR gets immediate townpoints for not only being the guy who started the Sando wagon but for being the guy who did it with a decent looking case. dybeck, OTOH, loses immediate townpoints for straightaway trying to shut down the wagon. CKD gets more scumpoints, though: names three players of which one is scum, then votes for one of the guys who isn't scum. Pretty classic. Nick looks a bit like a counterwagon to Sando, except for the fact that the guy who was pushing it hard was you know, town. WTF is up with dybeck's change of heart? Interesting how the wagon stalled. That ought to have been a sign you were on the right track, though to be fair in the current meta the last few votes is always like pulling teeth. Hah, now Espeonage hammers?

Those were my stream of consciousness thoughts. Here's it in a more organised fashion:

I'll be quite surprised if ABR turns up scum now. I thought he looked town in my initial readthrough thanks to his claim and unclaim on the Sandowagon and held to that in spite of some wishy-washiness on the bv wagon. What's more he was also joint second highest vote getter that day, though to b fair there was never much of a counterwagon to the Sando wagon at all. What resistance there was came from ckd, which is odd considering ckd's position that Sando was also scummy. The reread of that Sando wagon just confirms how scummy CKD looks that day. Ckd is now number 2 on my list in spite of some oddness from dybeck who was there before; the whole "RAAAH DIE ABR oh ok I'll vote Sando" leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I can't get behind a Nick wagon today, it's just so... bleh. It's like eating porridge when you could be having stew. I don't really have a read on him and I have a number of weak to strong scumreads, so yeah.

[Espeonage]

If I could eat porridge I would take that over stew. OH YEAH.

Also ckd is town unless is a bad scum. Dybeck could be scum though.

[curiouskarmadog]

shanba either you are selectively reading the thread, are scum, or simply forgot how to play mafia...which is it?

I love how you leave out the parts where I was against the Richard wagon Day 1 when scum was pushing it like a bitch...where was my vote that day...oh yeah, on you. where was your vote?..oh yeah, on town with scum. You also seem to have over looked that I pushed heavily for the bv wagon helping it to push through over Richard. Again no help from you and your vote.

OK, sure that is WIFOM or bussing to get town creds....

But lets look at the next day....when Pom was so close to being lynch, I decided I believed the claim unvote and PUSHED for the Sando lynch over Pom (guess you overlooked that too, right?) What were you doing that day?..oh right, nothing.

it is true that Day 3 I wasnt on the Sando lynch....but that is because I didnt trust ABR....and you did? He has lied, fake claimed, and has done nothing to help. He pushed so hard for the Pom lynch, when it was obvious, he was town. I didnt want to just jump on the Sando lynch, because I felt it was a scum ploy, to pick up where I left off the day before. What I find is fucking hiliarous?...You point your finger at me for getting scum points not being on the Sando lynch..WHEN YOU ASS WASNT THERE EITHER!

Now I understand you are playing for Faraday, but you have to answer for his actions.

I am actually glad, you brought all this up...looking at the vote counts again, I am doubting (reminding why I dont think) Nick is scum. scum was pushing for his lynch..I had forgotten about this....but looking at your/faraday plays..I am reminded why I thought you were scum.

unvote, vote shanba

here, is your soapbox, now scream how OMGUS that vote is. but at the end of it?..you have done NOTHING that is protown in this game and pushing my obvious protown plays has scummy, is..indeed scummy. Should have kept my vote on you.

[curiouskarmadog]

acutally, just

unvote

..for now.

Jahudo and ABR are on the Shanba lynch?

dont like that company either(I dont really trust either of those too, either.)....reviewing those vote counts, reminds me I need to reread....

[Shanba]

Selective reading. It was my reread of the Sando wagon.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Need to get my head right.

[Javert]

dybeck, I noticed you still have not explained your role. Please get to doing that.

Not right now thanks. I'd prefer to get to lynching scum.

Your post is, however, a beautiful effort to lurk in plain sight and to try and distract from the clear main issue of the moment, vis a vis that your scumbuddy is at L-2 and rising.

Why don't you tell us what you think about that instead?

1.)

Asking you to explain your partial role-claim is the exact opposite of a "distraction" -- it is the very definition of scumhunting. Games do not have to focus on one issue at a time. I have problems with your claim, and I see zero reasons to simply let you slide by on a partial claim.

2.)

Your post boils down to "why aren't you giving an opinion on NickF227>" I currently think he is the most likely player to be scum, and that is self-evident seeing as I am voting for him and have been calling him the most likely player to be scum for most of the game Day.

Now please get to explaining your claim. Accusing me of lurking, being a distraction, fishing, or whatever else you want to throw at me is not going to make me leave you alone.

[Shanba]

Actually, ckd, what the hell? I've been saying I'm going to analyse the Sando wagon for a while now, Jahudo had just asked me to get on with it, I do so and by your own admission you're scummy on that day, and you're surprised that I found you scummy in that part? Yeah, you're scummy, deal with it. To accuse me of not knowing how to play mafia ebcause I thought your actions around a scumwagon were scummy is just insane.

And yes, it is scummy. You said that Sando was scummy, but you weren't prepared to push him. That's not just scummy, that's classically scummy. Both you and Jahudo now have insinuated that because my predecessor did some scummy stuff (and he did) that I can't find you guys scummy; I'm still gonna fucking scumhunt and don't you dare try and bully me out of it.

[Jahudo]

Can people make up their minds soon? Deadline is in 2 days and this already has the feel like its going to be a rushed decision. Nick is a meh lynch. Espy is a bad lynch. dybeck is a bad lynch. Shanba's the only one I really like.

@Shanba: The problem I have is that it looks like your case (over day 1 voting patterns) can equally apply to me and Faraday. Obviously you know your role and I know mine, but that doesn't really help matters. I've already explained why Faraday's tells are stronger than mine. I haven't seen you try to argue the other way around.

On top of that there's the Sando wagon. I voted for Sando. Faraday ignored him. Someone other than me please analyze that.

[dybeck]

Mod: Any chance of a deadline extension?

In light of the fact that (a) it's the weekend, and (b) we've lost some time due to the migration.

[Patrick]

No. Activity this game day too poor for any kind of extension.

[Espeonage]

I'm lost.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's all vote Shanba seriously

[dybeck]

Shanba: do you have any kind of supporting evidence whatsoever to support your claim?

[Jahudo]

Limited Access today and tomorrow

If there's anything I can answer about my case or the case on me, I'll do it late tonight. Otherwise I'll just summarize everything I've already posted on the matter.

[dybeck]

unvote, vote: Shanba

. Nick is still scum.

[Shanba]

Ugh.

Unvote Vote: Nick

, better him than me.

[Javert]

I've been thinking about this for the past few days:

Unvote: NickF227, Vote: dybeck

1.)

dybeck’s claim literally does not make sense, and he has refused to answer questions to explain his role multiple times. The main problem with his claim is exactly the theme of the game:

What is the difference between his Weak and Strong mode?

I do not think there

can

be one. Using his Weak mode, dybeck should get a "Villager" result on a Villager. Using his Strong mode, dybeck should

still

get a "Villager" result on a Villager. And the same goes for every other role in the game. The entire

premise

of the game is that Weak and Strong modes are different.

On top of this, boberz has also called dybeck out for getting supposedly getting "Vanilla Villager" as a result, when there is no such role as a Vanilla Villager.

2.)

dybeck may have seemingly claimed while he was "not under pressure," but I think he was simply preempting the pressure that he knew was going to be coming his way. Shanba had just claimed and the wagon on Shanba was crumbling. Suddenly, there had to be a new wagon – and everybody had kinda been talking about dybeck. So dybeck claims and then touts the fact that he claimed "while not under pressure" in order to gain town cred.

3.)

dybeck has had four nights to investigate, and he has apparently not even investigated the very players I would most expect him to investigate: namely Faraday/Shanba and Albert B. Rampage, also known as the two players he has been talking about for practically the entire game. Of his results, only one of them could possibly have been contradicted – although he claimed to know Espeonage’s role, Espeonage has already claimed. The only risk would have been boberz.

Even so, I can definitely believe that dybeck actually has the role he claims to have. But I am starting to think it is just a straight scum ability, and hence does not have a Weak / Strong ability at all.

4.)

dybeck's reaction to people asking him to explain his role has been ridiculous. He first says he is "happy to answer questions," but once people actually start asking them he suddenly refuses to answer the questions that actually let us judge his claim -- he has even refused to claim what nights he received his information.

Accusing me of "fishing" from somebody who has

already claimed their role

is as ridiculous as accusations come. Accusing me of "distracting" by asking him to explain his role because

he

wants the game to focus on Shanba is similarly ridiculous. Finally, accusing me of "active lurking" because I made a single pointed post directed at him when I have been verbal the entire game is mind-boggling.

I would like people to read back on the timing of dybeck's claim, and his reaction once people start asking him to explain what the difference between his Weak and Strong mode are, and how his role is actually supposed to work.

5.)

I am seriously thinking this Shanba wagon is nothing but a compromise wagon in the face of a deadline, and I don’t like it.

[dybeck]

Javert: I've mentioned nothing whatsoever about my weak mode. I'd love to hear what you think it does.

[dybeck]

Also, I'd love to hear what I did on the two nights I haven't told you about. Please feel free to enlighten us all.

[Javert]

I am not going to speculate for a role that I think is a fake-claim. I do not think your role has a Strong Mode or a Weak Mode, and that is precisely why I am voting for you.

As for the "two nights you haven't told us about," that is your duty to explain, and not mine. But if you would like me to hazard a guess, perhaps you are responsible for the two nights we have had two kills. I have been having trouble seeing you as scum with Sando in particular, but being scum in your own right is certainly making a good deal of sense.

[Jahudo]

Faraday didn't vote for either BV-scum or Sando-scum. He ignored Sando and gave a meta reason for not voting BV. That's weak play on both accounts and connects him to both scum like no other player left in the game. His reason for wanting to lynch Richard wasn't very compelling either, since he was focusing on the AtE and some meta.

I didn't vote for BV-scum but did vote for Sando-scum. My reasons are here, and I'm pretty sure they weren't rehash from other cases. I'll try and find that out. My reason for not voting BV is more legitimate in my eyes than Faraday's reason. I thought posts like "i'm a magnet for vt roles" and others were posts he was not being clear about and could be open to interpretation, some of them scummy sounding. My reason for wanting to lynch Richard was also more legitimate in my eyes. I thought he was faking his gambit and I questioned/pressured him about it.

Its understandable that Shanba would want to lynch me based on my day 1 play, but if he had replaced anyone else he would apparently want to lynch Faraday. He hasn't yet said why he wouldn't, to my knowledge.

[dybeck]

I am not going to speculate for a role that I think is a fake-claim. I do not think your role has a Strong Mode or a Weak Mode, and that is precisely why I am voting for you.

As for the "two nights you haven't told us about," that is your duty to explain, and not mine. But if you would like me to hazard a guess, perhaps you are responsible for the two nights we have had two kills. I have been having trouble seeing you as scum with Sando in particular, but being scum in your own right is certainly making a good deal of sense.

Wow, I really must have put the cat among the pigeons in team scum if you're resorting to desperate measures like this. It doesn't even make sense! Firstly my claim is entirely fake - then I'm some kind of scum-half-rolecop-half-extra-killer. Pure genius.

[curiouskarmadog]

vote shanba.

no I think i am good with my vote.