Open 229 - Vengeful Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:14 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

/confirm
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Post Post #10 (isolation #1) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:46 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:Well what else would I claim?
Nothing, because there's no need for you to claim unless you're paranoid about people realising you're not a townie.
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Post Post #12 (isolation #2) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:42 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Sounds like somebody has a case of the 'maybe's.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:51 am

Post by Fenchurch »

It's not when it comes to your own alignment.
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Post Post #16 (isolation #4) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:15 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Oh no, I'm saying you're mafia.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #5) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:48 am

Post by Fenchurch »

VOTE: Robocopter87

Who's with me?
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Post Post #21 (isolation #6) » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:58 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis? smashbro? Your thoughts?
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Post Post #25 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:40 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Not always in Vengeful games. Last Vengeful I was in, godfather got pinned on page 1, we finished by page 4. The time in between was mostly me dithering that it was going too fast.

Reasons why Robo is scum.
1. Robo enters with joke-post about being town (weak tell)
2. Robo defends it by saying "maybe I'm scum, or maybe I'm town". (weak tell)
3. Robo tries to misrepresent what I'm saying to imply that I think he's town, when that clearly wasn't the case. (strong tell)

Remember we've only got 5 players, and 2 of them are scum. I appreciate that you don't want to make a mistake, but it's not that unlikely to hit scum straight away.

Robo, who's your partner?
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Post Post #28 (isolation #8) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:22 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:Instead of deciding who to vote myself I shall randomly pick one of the five players using a random number generator. I will most likely hit scum.
Nope, chances are you won't, and that definitely wasn't the method I was suggesting.
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Post Post #29 (isolation #9) » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:23 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:Instead of deciding who to vote myself I shall randomly pick one of the five players using a random number generator. I will most likely hit scum.
But I can understand why you wouldn't care about doing any *actual* scumhunting.

DIE SCUM DIE
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Post Post #33 (isolation #10) » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:24 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Erm is there any point in claiming in a game without power roles??
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Post Post #39 (isolation #11) » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:40 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Hmm. Well I guess a short game isn't always good.

Octupis, why did you ask Robo to claim when you voted him? Do you think Mindgamer is the remaining scum?

Mindgamer, I know I was saying that the game needn't drag, but I still wasn't prepared for that quickhammer. You'd made a total of one game posts before that. Why were you comfortable about ending the day then?
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Post Post #41 (isolation #12) » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:11 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Okay. Mindgamer?
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Post Post #44 (isolation #13) » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:06 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

No, as far as I know you've never been in this game. Playerlist is on the first page. Unless your replacing Mindgamer, who hasn't posted for a few days, but I would wait until a mod confirms that before assuming you're in the game.

If you're in a lot of games, you might want to use the list of subscribed topics or something, so you remember what you're playing in?
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Post Post #46 (isolation #14) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:58 am

Post by Fenchurch »

I know what you mean, it's frustrating for someone to flake out of a game like this, because it doesn't seem like it'd take much effort for them to stick around and finish it. Well, if you have to replace, at least the new player won't have much to read.

Octupis, if Mindgamer comes back, what will you want to know from him, what questions will you ask?

And what do you think of Robo's vengekill? How do you think he picked out smashbro?
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Post Post #48 (isolation #15) » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:34 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Hi EGL. What are your thoughts on the game then? Why do you think Mindgamer quickhammered?
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Post Post #50 (isolation #16) » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:42 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Mindgamer is missing from another game too, so I'm assuming it's real life, I'm not going to take it as an alignment tell.

I'm glad you're still reading, but in a 3-player game, you can't just wait for things to happen, it's up to you to ask questions, make comments, build cases as well. It's been a short game but we do still have some facts to go on. That said, your last post was good.

I'd like EGL to answer the question about the vengekill as well, then I'll say what I think.
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Post Post #53 (isolation #17) » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 am

Post by Fenchurch »

EGL wrote:
Fenchurch wrote:Octupis, why did you ask Robo to claim when you voted him? Do you think Mindgamer is the remaining scum?
This seems to assume that Octupis is town. And it seems like you're trying to paint me as the remaining scum.
Nope, I don't know that Octupis is town. At the end of Day 1 I was leaning towards Mindgamer as scum, but right now I'm not sure. I was trying to work out if Octupis is putting any thought towards working out who is scum, which could be a town-tell.
EGL wrote:I don't understand the point in speculating about the vengeful kill . . .
I'm not sure, but I figured one of the players here knew that smashbro was scum before he was killed, and I thought asking that question might help me work out who it was. And maybe it has.

For what it's worth then, my thoughts on the venge-kill:
1. I was surprised when Robo flipped town.
2. I thought Mindgamer was the obvious choice for kill, because he dropped the quickhammer.
3. I was surprised again he picked smashbro, hadn't bothered considering him at that point, and my first reaction was that maybe Robo did just choose at random. Don't know yet whether he did, and maybe you're right about the one-on-one-off the wagon thing, although I've also seen a vengeful game where both scum were on.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #18) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:11 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis: have you heard of the one-on, one-off the wagon scum strategy for vengefuls before now?

EGL: do you think Mindgamer made a pro-town move casting the hammer vote?
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Post Post #59 (isolation #19) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:59 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis wrote:
Fenchurch wrote:Octupis: have you heard of the one-on, one-off the wagon scum strategy for vengefuls before now?
Not really. My experiance of mafia is limited, as this is my first Vengeful game so I can't really help out there.
Have you read through any Vengeful games other than this one?
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Post Post #63 (isolation #20) » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:31 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Well, I re-read today. There's not a lot, but then, it is only a small game. Key interactions I noticed.

#22 - smashbro says he'll wait for Octupis to respond before he votes.
#25 - Octupis responds with "Yes, I had an interview/induction day yesterday and then a party on the evening. Sorry about that." What was he saying "Yes" to? I can't see any question/speculation about his absence. Secret posts in scum-topic? Or just me leaping at shadows. :?
#27 - Robo random-votes Octupis
#32 - Octupis puts Robo at L-1, because his actions "don't make any sense", asks for a claim. Could also have been OMGUS to Robo's vote.
#34 - Mindgamer hammers Robo, because "it's as if he wants to be lynched" and "every single post he made is scummy".

Octupis thinks the venge-kill was made at random, this was my initial thought (town-tell?), but then it was also smashbro's.
EGL can see reasons for why Robo might have worked out smashbro was scum. Because EGL is scum too, and would have noticed these same things?
EGL (Mindgamer) cast the hammer knowing it would end the day and limit the posts in D1 (and the chance for town to lynch the godfather.) Scum generally benefit from a short game, so this could be a scum-tell.
Octupis keeps emphasising that he doesn't think it's time to lynch, that we shouldn't vote early, and that it we're not going to be able to identify scum reliably with so little information (I disagree, I don't think this game is more difficult than any other game). Doesn't seem that bothered about asking questions or finding out useful information though, which could be a scum-tell.

I can see a case for each of you, although I think I'm leaning one way a little more than the other. I don't like the game dragging, so I may be ready to vote soon.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #21) » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:34 am

Post by Fenchurch »

24h later and NO replies?? This game makes me sad... :(
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Post Post #67 (isolation #22) » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:41 am

Post by Fenchurch »

EGL wrote:I said before I don't see the point in speculating about what Robo thought with his Vengekill.
The point wasn't about finding out what Robo thought. The point was seeing what you two answered. Scum are often better at seeing their own mistakes than townies are.. You gave more reasons for smashbro to be scum, so that could be a scum-tell.

It's certainly not a rock-solid case on it's own; the biggest tell for you is Mindgamer casting the hammer vote. I've certainly seen vengefuls where scum deliberately plan to end the day as early as possible, to limit information for the town. You ask why we didn't question smashbro on D1? Because at that point, we didn't know Robo was town, and also because Mindgamer chose to end the day.

I'm happy to hold off voting for now, but with Octupis posting once every 2 days, I am not optimistic about getting much more information before deadline.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #23) » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:46 am

Post by Fenchurch »

EGL wrote:I think the bit about the secret scum communication with Octupi is a stretch, especially with you highlighting the word "Yes" and smash still not hammering.
I think you misunderstood what I was thinking with this. Octupis seemed to be responding to the question "Are you busy at the moment?" or something like that, but nobody asked that in thread. I was wondering if his scum buddy might have asked it in the quicktopic. I do think it's a unlikely, but occasionally these kind of slips happen, so I pointed it out.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #24) » Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:49 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Also, you say I'm playing divide and conquer, but actually I'm just being honest about the game as I see it: obviously for me, it's between you and Octupis.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #25) » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:23 pm

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Octupis wrote:This seems a bit forthright for such an early stage. I was the one who was exercising restraint. You keep mentioning the fact that Mindgamer ended the day fairly early, but you were very persistent in your attack on Robocopter. I don't think this is hypocritical of me because I did vote for Robocopter but that was after he started using a random generator to pick his targets, I had grounds to vote for him, I think yours were weak and you rather shortened day one in your own way by not allowing Robocopter to speak much. You tunnelled him from the beginning of the game, until he started talking rubbish. I agree with EGL in this respect, I think you have been causing WIFOM since Smashbro's death with your discussion of Robocopter's motives in killing Smashbro. How did this help the town?
I've been
trying
to work out who the scum is, in the face of etreme apathy. It's not the same as night-kill speculation WIFOM: I've already said, the point of that question wasn't to work out Robo's motives, but to find out what the remaining players thought of smashbro's play, as the scum player might have viewed it differently.

I apologise for pushing so hard on the Robo lynch, I honestly thought I was on the right track. But all three of us voted Robocopter on Day 1, and two of us were town. Clearly it was possible to vote Robo with good intentions. But one of us was actually voting him because a mis-lynch would help them as scum. So I've been looking at Day 1 to try and find clues to work out whose vote seems most scummy. Or who seems like a partner to smashbro.

Given that both of you seem unconvinced by the points I raised, and one of you must be town, I'll accept that maybe they are rubbish. But I am doing my best here.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #26) » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:11 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis wrote:There is no need to apoligise. You say you honestly thought he was scum, but you came to that conclusion awfully quickly. That is all I am saying.
Well my initial attacks on Robo were to largely see how he reacted to the pressure - and his responses seemed more and more scummy. And I started arguing as to why town shouldn't be afraid to lynch him, because I was expecting that to be an uphill battle. I didn't others to come round so quickly.
Octupis wrote:EGL, any progress on your review? The game is rather stalling because of it (considering you asked us not to vote in the mean time).
Agreed here.
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Post Post #76 (isolation #27) » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:53 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Yes. It says so in the sample mafia role pms posted at the start of the game. I wouldn't normally expect daytalk, but it was the same in the last vengeful I was in, probably because the game is night-less.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #28) » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:30 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Well one of you does know.

But yeah, when I read the rules that was one thing I looked out for, because I reckon mafia might act differently depending whether they can daytalk or not, ie. be more co-ordinated.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #29) » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:55 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Is that all you've got or are you still re-reading?
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Post Post #80 (isolation #30) » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:01 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Sorry that came out as more blunt than I meant it to. I just get tired of waiting a day and there are barely any new posts, was wondering if you have more you're going to add.
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Post Post #83 (isolation #31) » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:45 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

EGL wrote:I'm not really re-reading at this point. I just want some more discussion. It's a bit difficult because I think we've discussed everything that happened from D1.
Sure. What more do you want to discuss about Day 1?
EGL wrote:You've said a couple times that it's between me and Octupis but I think that would also be true if you were scum. Wouldn't it? Scum wants to mislynch a townie to win so for scum the mislynch is between the two townies. The two of us who are town don't know who is the other town but we both want to lynch scum so we can win.
Well of course. So you say yourself, if I'm scum then I want to lynch one of two, and if I'm town then I want to lynch scum, ie. one of you two. There is nothing in this argument that makes me more likely to be scum.
EGL wrote:That being said, I feel Fen was aggressive toward the robo lynch and introduced this wave of WIFOM. I think she's misused her "for me it's between you two" statements to try to appear as town when in fact the same situation applies if she's scum and she seems to be trying to hurry this phase along. So far I'd feel safest with a lynch on Fen today.
I've said why my questions weren't WIFOM and you have ignored that. I don't see how limiting my focus to the two of you is misleading, it would be pointless for me to consider whether I might be scum. I am happy to answer to cases other people may have though.

I am not trying to hurry, but this game moves, in my opinion, painfully slowly. Whole vengefuls have started and finished since we began. I don't want to lynch prematurely, but if people posted more often then we could achieve both information and speed. I check the game several times a day and have re-read in full twice. So when there are just one or two new posts a day, one line each, that is frustrating to me.
EGL wrote:Fen, who would you lynch and why?
I would lynch you. I think through D2 you've done your best to look like you're contributing, but I don't think you've come up with anything valid. I still think Mindgamer's hammer was the scummiest vote on D1. And I think Octupis' post #70 is a bit of a town-tell:
Octupis wrote:The only criticism that I would have, and I realise that this applies to me to, is that you have not been scum hunting per say, rather just answering the questions of Fenchurch.
I don't think a scum player would ever want to draw attention to the fact that they haven't really been scumhunting.
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Post Post #84 (isolation #32) » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:49 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

I'd like to address this post again:
Octupis wrote:You keep mentioning the fact that Mindgamer ended the day fairly early, but you were very persistent in your attack on Robocopter. I don't think this is hypocritical of me because I did vote for Robocopter but that was after he started using a random generator to pick his targets, I had grounds to vote for him, I think yours were weak and you rather shortened day one in your own way by not allowing Robocopter to speak much. You tunnelled him from the beginning of the game, until he started talking rubbish.
I really don't think you can blame me for the Robo lynch. It took three votes, and if you didn't think it was a reasonable case at the time then you shouldn't have voted. The thing is, it did seem like a reasonable case at the time. I pushed hard because sometimes a scum player will drop tells when they're under pressure; if instead you say "I'm voting you but I don't think we should lynch you" then that relieves the pressure. I wasn't expecting a townie to react to pressure like Robo did, and it backfired because of that; but I think you agree that Robo's responses did seem scummy, and I was surprised at the flip. I accept that I was aggressive, and I've said why, but you can't hold me responsible for the actions of other players: for the other two votes, or for Robo's posts.
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Post Post #89 (isolation #33) » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:15 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Sorry I haven't posted lately, I've got a friend staying for the weekend so I'm busy at the mo, I'll check in again on Monday.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #34) » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:35 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Re-reading, rethinking.
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Post Post #96 (isolation #35) » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:31 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis wrote:I am not blaiming you for any of the things you mentioned at the end of your post, I just think you were fairly aggressive to be honest. Are you anxious about this, because you have answered it twice just to me already?
I didn't think I addressed it fully the first time, and in your original quote, it did seem like you were trying to hold me mainly responsible for the mislynch.
EGL wrote:
Octupis wrote:This is just wifom.
Whatever Fenchurch's alignment, she is only ever going to vote for me or you.
This is a baseless argument.
The bolded part is what I had just said. Reread Fenchurch. She made mention of it and I was questioning her as to why.
I didn't 'make mention of it'; I just posted the 'clues' that I picked up on for both of you. Then you said I was limiting the game to the two of you, and I said that from my point of view, of course it was.
Octupis wrote:
EGL wrote:What I'd like to know is how has Fenchurch promoted better discussion with WIFOM about: 1) Robo's vengekill, 2) scum quicktopics, 3) stating that it's between me and you for her. I wanted to know why she said it to begin with. You parroted what I said, called it WIFOM, and then tried to say that I've caused WIFOM while ignoring Fen's WIFOM. What WIFOM have I directly caused?
It is WIFOM because there are only three players in the game. Whatever Fenchurch's alignment, she isn't going to vote for herself, so it is always going to be between me and you. Just like it is only between you and Fenchurch for me. That much is true but you tried to confuse the matter with introducting the idea that this might change if Fencurch were scum. Which it wouldn't.
You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Seriously, both of you keep bandying WIFOM around, I don't think that any of these points can be dispelled by that magic word. I actually thought the EGL checking how I knew there was a quicktopic was a good thing to ask. And all the other questions I asked... there are times when scum will be more likely to do something than town, whether consciously or unconsciously; and even if scum don't slip, that doesn't mean it wasn't worth a try.

EGL, I have already given my reasons for all 3 of your points. What about my answers was unsatisfactory? If nothing, why do you keep holding onto them?
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Post Post #98 (isolation #36) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:02 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Posting to confirm I'm not hammering.

I'm waiting for EGL to answer questions, my mind isn't 100% made up yet.
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Post Post #99 (isolation #37) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 am

Post by Fenchurch »

BTW we don't have another chance for vengeful townie kill, that is only on the first night.
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Post Post #102 (isolation #38) » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:14 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis, at the start of the day you posted this:
Octupis wrote:Although I am very adamant of the fact that no one should vote yet at all, the chances of finding scum are difficult because we don't have much to go on, so one misplaced vote would allow scum to quick hammer and it would be the end of the game.
So it seems like you did know that then, how come you didn't know it now?
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Post Post #105 (isolation #39) » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:17 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Oh no, I wasn't talking about your voting. I meant you saying "if I'm wrong then there will still be another chance with a vengeful kill", which isn't the case, and considering you didn't think that at the start of the day, it seems like maybe you were trying to be deliberately misleading.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #40) » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:56 am

Post by Fenchurch »

I'm still around. Sorry there was a problem with our power yesterday evening so I use my computer. But also, I'm kinda waiting for EGL to get back and respond to questions, before I make any decisions.

EGL, if you're still reading; do you think you will have the free time to be able to continue with this game again at some point, or are you going to need replacing?
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Post Post #111 (isolation #41) » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:38 am

Post by Fenchurch »

That's fine, and yes, that's the sort of thing I'm waiting for.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #42) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:40 am

Post by Fenchurch »

EGL? If you're not gonna be around then I can make a decision based on my own thoughts on the game, but I think it would help to have your perspective. Even a sentence or two?
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Post Post #116 (isolation #43) » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:28 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

I'm willing to wait for another replacement, although I'd much prefer to hear something from EGL.

Octupis, can you explain the reasoning behind your unvote?
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Post Post #118 (isolation #44) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:38 am

Post by Fenchurch »

If I was scum, why wouldn't I have voted for one of you two already? Hell, EGL still has a vote sitting on you. Why wouldn't I be hammering you right now and winning the game?
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Post Post #120 (isolation #45) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:12 am

Post by Fenchurch »

But that implies that you are still considering the possibility that I might be. Are you? And if so, why wouldn't I hammer earlier? Why does that not convince you?
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Post Post #122 (isolation #46) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:57 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis, in any other point of the game, I can understand you being concerned about my post. But now we're in endgame and votes have been cast, that changes things. There is a vote on you and I am not hammering. You have the information then, to be
logically certain
that I am not scum. That trumps any uncertainty based on my posts.

Why, then, be concerned about the game ending when the scum player is away? Is it just a question of sportsmanship, or are you still open to persuasion, and if so, why?
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Post Post #124 (isolation #47) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:46 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Ugh. But I've made up my mind. I believe you're town, especially after that last bit, I think your concern was genuine. EGL last posted on Monday morning saying that he wanted a day to make his case. It's now Friday. How long do I reasonably need to wait? And isn't it just as rude to insist on EGL spending more of his time on making a case, when I've already made up my mind. Even moreso if he doesn't come back, and someone else is forced to replace in to a basically hopeless situation.

VOTE: EGL

EGL, I'm sorry if you see this as unsportsmanly.

And Octupis... if you're scum and just played me for a fool these past few posts.. well done.
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Post Post #127 (isolation #48) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:03 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Thank god for that :)

Good game guys!

And EGL, you put up a good fight. I was torn 50:50 for a while in the middle there.

Octupis, do you still think I did the wrong thing by voting now?

Anyone else around for post-game discussion? Robo? Was EGL right in suggesting you wanted to use your vengekill?
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Post Post #128 (isolation #49) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:07 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Oh and thanks for modding, kunk. Was this your first game? Bet when you drew vengeful you didn't think it'd take this long! Any comments on the play?
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Post Post #131 (isolation #50) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:28 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:What the heck Fenchurch! Cmon Man, don't sit around and hesitate, going lay your cases and crap. Frikkin cases just cause more confusion. Just frikkin get guts and hammer man!
Wow wtf seriously, you're blaming me for dragging it out? Octupis was the one saying "wait for EGL to get back"! At what point do you think I should've hammered? Could you work out who the scum was before I did, and if so, how?
Robocopter87 wrote:yes I used a random number generator
LOL
Robocopter87 wrote:1 month, 5 pages. Jeez.
My sentiments entirely.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #51) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:41 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:EGL was the obv pick. I mean, no connection to Smash Day One. Mindgamer's play. EGL did a good job of holding it off but you should've hammered, not because of certainty, but to get it done. You were getting nowhere. Just constant bickering that wasn't improving discussion. Just bite the bullet and get it done. Don't be afraid to hammer. In 3 Man LyLo. It is better to go with gut than Logic.
Respectfully disagree. Plenty of times I've gone with the gut and had it be wrong. In fact the last C9 I played ended with a lylo mislynch, and in post-game one of the other townies suggested that if I'd waited a little longer before hammering, we might have figured it out correctly.
Throughout most of D2 I was confident about 60:40, then the last few posts pushed that to 95:5. I appreciate it was painful though, it was incredibly so for me.

And much as I might have liked to lay down the first vote, I simply could not tell which way Octupis was leaning, and after being criticised for my D1 aggression, I felt that pushing a lynch on D2 would just end with me in the noose.
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Post Post #135 (isolation #52) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:51 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Robocopter87 wrote:I understand. I just thought EGL was obvscum. I did keep the game going with my Venge Kill. I almost wanted to get lynch in order to Venge Kill someone Lolz.
But not obvscum enough to vengekill him? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy you picked smashbro, and I think it's hilarious that you used a RNG to do it :D I just think EGL is much more obv after the flip ;)

Octupis, I was pretty flummoxed when you pulled your vote off to give EGL a chance. If I was a townie who was now 100% certain of scum, I would be doing everything I could to ensure they were lynched, yet when I suggested that I was gonna hammer then you suddenly backed off, how come?

kunkstar, no problems with your modding it was pro, and I am happy with 48 hour prods I would consider that standard.
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Post Post #137 (isolation #53) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:03 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Probably not quite "on the spot", but you could be right there; Octupis and Mindgamer could have come off as buddies piling on. Hard to say for sure though, best not to go there, specially if you're gonna assume that I'd make the wrong choice :wink:
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Post Post #138 (isolation #54) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:18 am

Post by Fenchurch »

Fenchurch wrote:Octupis: have you heard of the one-on, one-off the wagon scum strategy for vengefuls before now?
Btw, I can see why some of you thought my questions on D2 were obtuse or pointless, eg. this one. But I wasn't actually looking for Octupis' opinion on the whether EGL was making up the theory, I'd already heard of the theory, I just wanted Octupis to answer so I could try and judge whether
he'd
heard of it before - specifically, whether he was a part of it in this game, if he was scum. I just didn't want to phrase it too accusatory because I figured that'd make him automatically defensive in his answer, which is less useful.

Bad strategy? Perhaps.
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Post Post #140 (isolation #55) » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:13 pm

Post by Fenchurch »

Octupis wrote:I paniced because I thought that you were going to lynch me (especially during that huge gap when we were waiting for EGL to present his case on me). I had to do something to make sure that I didn't get lynched, for the town's sake, all I could think off was to unvote because I had set up the first lynch, and had now been quite rash in setting up the second. In the interest's of the town I unvoted so I didn't seem as aggressive, in the hope that I could pull it off, allow EGL to come back, whereupon I would demolish his case and would vote for him again, and we would win. I then paniced again when you said that I was unvoting the person I knew was scum, so I revoted. I'm an idiot but I was worried about being lynched, and knew that I, or rather, we would lose, so I just did something.
Oh haha, I totally didn't figure that. I honestly thought you were having some kinda crazy second thoughts and were thinking of switching to me, so I was panicking too. You didn't really need to worry, if I'd have hammered at that point it would have been EGL; I'd have been more worried if he'd come back and presented a case. When he started building a case on me that was the point at which I was least convinced he was scum, because his points did seem believable.

It's pretty funny that we were both worried we were gonna lynch each other for no reason :)
Octupis wrote:I didn't see it for what it was though. I didn't know of the theory, and was telling the truth when I admitted that. Did it help you?
Well, your answer didn't stand out as scummy, so maybe it moved me a couple of percentage points. If you'd have been scum it might have helped more, but I don't know since you weren't.
Octupis wrote:What was it about my last few posts that pushed the balance?
Erm, it was largely your insistence on waiting for EGL. I just couldn't see a scum player
wanting
to give their opponent a chance to defend themselves. This could be WIFOM, and considering you weren't doing it for the reasons I thought (townie confused and thinking of changing their vote) then perhaps it's blind luck that I interpreted that way. Although more generally, your posts at that point were frequent and quite lengthy, and still seemed open and honest and un-faked, which comes across to me as townie.
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