/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[farside22]

woot!!!

vote: Locke Lamora

I flipped a coin between zach and Locke and locke lost.

[farside22]

Don't rolefish.

Vote: Jack

First to accuse of rolefishing is scum.

And yes I'm serious, rolefishing is one of those accusations that is incredibly easy and safe to make as scum because it is seen as one of the most anti-town thing you can do and it is very easy to make a fairly innocuous statement look like rolefishing.

You obviously never played with Jack. I dubbed him the person to always do something scummy for reaction purposes. It's why I like playing with him. He gets the game going that way.

[farside22]

So far I have Jack and Imkingdavid as town. The jury is out on Porochaz but gut reaction is not favorable.
Sotty will you have me hitting my head on the table this game or do you really think Jack is scum?
Actually I really want to vote Porochaz. I don't like his reaction or reason's for voting for Jack. He's asking Jack if he is serious and then lays on an easy bw vote that looks crappy.

Unvote:
vote: Porochaz

[farside22]

You want to play with me, then you tell me my vote is crappy... You realise you have hurt me with your language... to portray you will be getting a sad face at the end of your username every time I need to post it until I forget to portray how I am hurting inside, farside:(

Hey I call a spade a spade. You should know that about me by now.
What did you think of imking and sotty in the exchange and what they had to say?

[farside22]

I'm interested to see the effect of increased pressure on Sando to see how he responds.

UNVOTE: Porochaz
VOTE: Sando

Do you know something about Sando and how he will react? What info will it give you. either way?

@Poro: I have seen Jack do some pretty well less then stellar moments for reaction. I don't see what he stated that deserved a vote. Usually I read you as a pretty intelligent person when analysis a player and their motives that's why I question your vote more on Jack then anyone right at this moment.

[farside22]

I don't think there is any role fishing so I think my vote is a good one. Do I think it is Jack being Jack, sure. Right now I don't have a better place for my vote.

You are one big wall of helpful there aren't you. (sarcasm)

@Charlie: I get your view there about the argument and taking sides but do you think Sando's wrong in his thoughts on what Jack was saying there?

[farside22]

I think so. I'm voting for the person I view as the scummiest player at this point. I have some what limit experience with Jack, but I can see him doing this kinda thing as scum or as town. Really what is the big deal with a little pressure on him?

Your limited experience. So have you been in a game where Jack flipped scum?

Zach your not thrilling me much right now. Can't say why, but it's mostly it's the wash, rinse and repeat of something I already stated this game.

[farside22]

Poro: post 68 hurts my head to read.
Jack post 71 gives me pause to reread sotty all over again.
Jack post 74 points 30 MOI 0

People who have not said much of anything exciting:
zajnet, sando, channel

Predict at least one in that group is scum.

Worst reasoning so far:

I haven't liked a thing sotty has said so far.

unvote vote sotty

It's not an RVS vote, why would you think that? I clearly asked you a serious question about being serious. You seriously replied and I seriously voted.

...Seriously.

my head hurts and cries all in one

If you want to point out exactly how IKD was rolefishing I'm willing to listen, but right now you are either:

A) Seriously making a mountain out of a molehill, which is scummy and earns my vote.

or

B) Playing some kind of early gambit to draw votes.

How is A scummy exactly? Why would scum try this and make themselves known?

My issue with Poro at the moment is how long it took for him to vote me. He mentions a couple of times that he doesn't like me but it takes awhile for him to shift his vote over. Almost as if he was testing the waters.

However, the reason I'm not voting for him right now is because his view of events is plausible, in that he could have genuinely not understood my reasoning surrounding my Jack Vote. He could have been confused.

Agreed


So far I still like my Porochaz vote rereading Sotty I get a few questions about reasoning. I think Sotty is either blinded by Jack or scum trying not to show their hand. I'm on the fence leaning blinded just because I don't like Poro's vote on Jack or Sotty or the reasoning he has for those votes.

[farside22]

Sotty's 'look over here, Zach's lurking' post feels off to me. It's not that she isn't right about Zach-scum (in my experience, anyway), it's the way she was almost apologetic about bringing it up this early. I think I'll leave my vote there.

I think Poro's view of Sotty's vote on Jack is fair. I see where he's coming from and I don't think it's scummy.

Anyone else reading this as a fluff post that was said at least 3 times in this game by others?

@Locke: Are you telling me post like this from Poro sounds like good reasoning?

Sotty doesn't have a good post thus far. Particularly the first 3, a vote with no explanation, a seriously gimmicky serious post and a stupid question.

I haven't liked a thing sotty has said so far.

unvote vote sotty

I'm trying not to reread that post that hurt my head but this was his original reasoning which is lacking wouldn't you say?

[farside22]

Farside, do you feel on page 3, I should have extensive reasoning to my votes?

Did you read locke's comment about your vote? He stated he liked your reason my point is more on what he stated.
As for your vote and reasoning. Yeah I expect a bit more when you switching from RVS to Jack to Sotty with ease by the time we were on page 3.
I expect more reasoning then hey I don't like what you said here is a vote.

Ummm, what? I'm accusing him of doing the EXACT OPPOSITE. You say he does things that look scummy, I'm saying he's doing things in a deliberate attempt to look town.

I would say based on the few votes from others that some don't agree with your view on that.

[farside22]

So you're saying that accusing someone of rolefishing really early in the game is in fact normally seen as scummy, and therefore fits within Jacks meta?

For the reason's that Jack stated I would say it was rediculous. The votes on him and reasoning was by far more scummy and a stretch hence my questions and comments towards others that voted for Jack.

[farside22]

Wait, you're saying that people had to 'stretch' to accuse someone of scumminess when you yourself say his reasoning was 'rediculous'...

Uh huh.

Ridiculous = scummy? Did I say that or are you putting words in my mouth?

[farside22]

Sando: I think your misunderstanding me. First my reference to you was to locke and porochaz in general and Jack's meta.
Yes I found Jack be ridiculous and I have in other games where he says something outlandish or down right dumb. But their is a motive to it I realized one day. My view on Jack is based on playing with him in multiple games. Call it meta but he does it and gets votes cast on him for said comments.
When I see people switching for RVS to a serious vote on Jack.
So why are you being so defensive on a comment I made towards others and me calling them out on their vote on Jack?

[farside22]

Why am I responding to comments directed at others?

For the reason's that Jack stated I would say it was rediculous. The votes on him and reasoning was by far more scummy and a stretch hence my questions and comments towards others that voted for Jack.

I'm voting Jack and have provided reasoning. I assumed I was included in your very general comment.

You had a valid view and discussion. There is a difference between someone who is pushing and prodding and a person who lays down a vote with very little said. Next time my you will state who I mean next time.

[farside22]

There was rolefishing. But I'd appreciate it if it that subject was dropped--we seem to have escaped without too much being revealed and I'd like to stay that way. That means you sando ok?

unvote, vote:Locke Lamora

I would like an explanation on this vote chance.

[farside22]

Farside: I never said Poro's reasoning was good (the way he stated it was quite convoluted, really). I said I saw where he was coming from, in that Sotty admitted this is Jack being Jack and Poro therefore interpreted it as Sotty voting Jack for a null tell. .

Where exactly is Poro coming from? What are you views on others so far at this point?

Any reason you felt the need to not bother to join in the Random voting? Indecisive as to whether to bus your partners in RVS?

Why the need to join RVS isn't it better to get discussion and have the game actually moving then jokes and stalling?

Yes it does lack a Shotty vote since he isn’t playing this game. It also lacks a Sotty vote. I’m not one to vote-hop like a pinball machine. Thus my vote on zajnet is going to sit there until I have a firm suspicion I want to apply pressure to.

I think there is a point we are at that keeping to a random vote and not apply pressure to someone you actually feels scummy is off. Did I miss something or aren't votes meant for pressure? Why the concern for voting here?
Who are you top scum suspects right now?

Scummy people thus far:
Porochaz
Charlie
MOI
Locke

Those that are defending too much for my taste
zach

The unknown:
zajent
channelbird

[farside22]

Farside, does Jack get better later at least? Or do we have to put up with this the whole time?

I have seen Jack do crazy things 10 pages in and sometimes I see him do crazy things at the end of the game.
I would say based on the last game I saw him in that I modded he played well without being crazy and pegged scum.

[farside22]

Someone else asked what the effect of said pressure would be. You never answered. Are you satisfied with Sando’s statements since this post?

What was actually stated was this:

Do you know something about Sando and how he will react? What info will it give you. either way?

No, it is an argument between Jack and Sando. I'm taking one side and seeing how it goes and nothing else.

So first your wrong about charlie not answering

Locke and Charlie seem by far the weakest votes reasons for voting Sotty. I don’t feel Sotty is scum at this point so they both bear scrutiny. Both also aren’t setting the world on fire with post volume. As evidenced above Charlie I feel is a stronger current scum read than Locke.

You do realize that Locke's original vote on Sotty was RVS

No-one said they couldn’t. Nice straw-man. That being said the players with the worst reasoning on the most prominent target have a much higher chance of being opportunistic scum than those with solid reasoning.

Why isn't poro on your scum list then?

MOI is winning some serious scum points for voting shenanigans.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

How so?

@Locke: Just an fyi every game I ever played with you I think you are scum. Post 119 actually gives me pause on you a bit in a good way.

.Thus my vote on zajnet is going to sit there until I have a firm suspicion I want to apply pressure to.

And yet I question you about your lack of vote on Sotty and suddenly you find a voice and vote charlie for (1) reason's that are false and (2) weak reason for his vote.

unvote:
vote: MOI

[farside22]

So first I'm scummy for not transitioning to a serious vote very early in the Day. Then I'm scummy for voting someone I find suspicious. Seems like a 'Damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma you are creating here.

It's voting someone when a person ask you about your lack of vote I take issue with.
As for Locke leaving his vote I did state myself it was what others stated already when he was more serious about his vote.
Charlie, charlie, charlie. I have seen him lynched as town once that I recall. He has foot in mouth and I have seen him say things that make you shake your head.
This time is no different. For me I'm waiting to see how he responds and how long it takes for said response before I decide on my vote for him.
You on the other hand MOI I get the taking the easy way out and following others approach reading your post. Others have already stated things you brought up except for one point.
I would like Charlie to come in and go over the case on him.

Zajent: you need to expend more on what your stating above. I don't get it.

[farside22]

coping and pasting my points on someone doesn't really win in my view.

[farside22]

Do I have my foot in my mouth now?

There's 3 votes on you. What's your view on the case against you?

[farside22]

I feel like charlie just missed out on some points to stall because he has no answer.
I also dislike his vote on MOI. Putting someone at L-1 with barely a case. Not really thinking he is scum. I sense more scum trying to get a claim at this point.

unvote:
vote: Charlie

[farside22]

Currently running late this morning. Will read what I missed and post when I get home tonight.

[farside22]

I'm "stalling" because I'm lazy. We have lots of time and an active playerlist (with some V/LAs, but that does not pose a problem).
I accept responsibility for putting him at L-1. I've been meaning to step up attacks in more games to try a different playstyle.

I don't buy this for a second

Farside, what has Charlie missed?

My view is as follows:

What isn't convincing about my defense? What don't you like in particular about it? What points needed elaboration in your mind?

Could you elaborate more on this particular point:

Stalling here. It's easy to go back and see what Sotty was asking here and in regards to what.

Someone else asked what the effect of said pressure would be. You never answered. Are you satisfied with Sando’s statements since this post?

Odd. I did answer in #48, but you don't seem to find it adequate or you missed it completely. Here it is:

MOI clarifiedwhat he was looking for and what he felt charlie did not answer adequately but charlie ignores that point and question.

IMKD: Who else do you find scummy and why?

[farside22]

I have caught up whilst I have some town reads but no scum reads as of yet, I need to read when its not early morning, however I think an

unvote

would be appropriate at the moment.

Seriously this guy is scum.
Nothing I have read has changed my scum list in the least.

[farside22]

@charlie: I miss that picture right about now and it's looking more at you.

[farside22]

After catching up I'm still happy with my Magna vote.

I'd also be happy with a Zajnet or Porochaz lynch today. Porochaz's play has bothered me for reasons I've already pointed out (and has since faded out of the spotlight) and Zajnet seems to be posting just enough to stick around but hasn't really been doing all that much. Magna's reactions to him and the way he attacks him but never actually pressures him is something that's bothering to me...

After reading Charlie's play, he's done some strange things... but I can't really classify him as likely to be scum. His actions just seem too blatant to me, actions that draw a lot of attention, which is something scum generally don't want.

He's not scum hunting in my view and admits to it. Then says there is still time and we are told there is 4 days left before deadline. I would say he's floating by offering nothing as scum.
I agree completely about Porochaz. Not sure about Zajnet.
MOI seems really quiet now that pressure is off of him I'm tempted to switch back to Magna

[farside22]

Apologies, I made a mistake and read sotty's post wrong. Ive read through the thread and got some stronger opinions, it might sound like OMGUS and Im wary of voting her but farside is not playing to her meta at all. It's been a while and whilst I know it's not the case I get the feeling that she might be out to get me after PYP, but joking aside her posts leave me uneasy.

Explain the difference you see with the meta you know, beside my lack of spamming the thread like I used to which most people at this point know my internet access is no longer available at work.

[farside22]

I'm reading iso by player right now. I'm going to take a break but want to get my notes on paper where I'm at.

# ChannelDelibird - hasn't offered too much in the game. 4 post total. I sense disinterest but it could be a rouse. Right now, not enough content.
# Charlie - post 101 follows bandwagon. Gives vague reasoning without it up when asked
post 136 doesn't answer the question asked and avoids more reasoning. Puts MOI to L-1 with no good reason.

The point was whoever hammered (although the chances were slim) would be under intense scrutiny the next Day. You're going to have to take my word for it that I was confident that this would not happen. I cannot explain it any other way unless I lie.

why?
scummy, scummy, scummy
# imkingdavid - the only pro thing I have to say about ikd is that he actually made a case on someone. I don't like that after being gone he doesn't comment on anyone else in the game. I admit to being single minded if I feel someone is scum so I will chalk this up to null tell.
Right now I need him to post more to determine anything more.
# Jack - God I'm torn between seeing Jack normal tells and laziness and knowing he could post more and indepth stuff to give his views.
I need to look up the game that Jack was scum to remind myself if he was like this as scum too. Basically I get a better understanding on why idk thinks jack could be scum. I don't believe he is but I can't say that with confidence I felt earlier

[farside22]

@farside Maybe its because it's been a while since Ive been in a game with you (- the PYP, which was unusual circumstances) however my read of you is your usually well reasoned, you explain your votes - or anything you do - well, you seem to be relying on your gut more, this may be because your not explaining your reasoning more, you also ask a lot more questions, which you did to a degree anyway but with a lot more volume now, you also are emphasising your votes more without really bringing anything new to the table, something that someone like Llama or tajo would do, and you are a lot more aggressive, it's like Mafia Mum has rebellious teenagers. You also didn't seem the type to do scum/town lists particularly as I thought you would prefer to keep them private due to the potential information that it gives. Oh and also letting CDB get away with what he is doing.

Meh the town/scum list started more because of DGB.
Gut is not a bad thing and if something reads false to me even if it's well reasoned I will listen to my gut and poke at things that bother me.
As for CDB I'm bond to missing lurking people. That is why I'm looking at people in iso to get a better feel of each person.

[farside22]

jasonT1981:
You Fos porochaz but he's not on your scum list. Any reason why?

Actually it's a good catch up post and yes I know I'm going off of my past experience with Jack. Rereading people in iso I'm less impressed and more uncertain.
If I had more then 10 minutes I would looking at MOI's examples.

[farside22]

Doing more iso's on people

# Locke Lamora - I think my biggest issue with Locke is a lack of push. I don't like his vote on Zack for no reason when he had a strong case on zajent that he's just falls off of.
Locke: What is your view on charlie's play? Why do you agree with sotty?
My flaw with Locke is he always seems scummy to me. I see some things I have liked from him but just that blahness I get reading his post. Idk I put him on the keep an eye on list for now.

# MagnaofIllusion - So orignally I felt and read things from MOI I disagreed with and didn't like his vote wait and then vote but damn he pushes cases and locks onto people with good and indepth reason.
Note to self look at the MOI wagon.
MOI: Who do you think is scum that was on your wagon? Is charlie the only person?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say I see MOI town at this point and eat crow for my vote from earlier now.

# Porochaz - I really don't like this comment:

Farside, do you feel on page 3, I should have extensive reasoning to my votes?

Tries to down play his reasoning.

I have caught up whilst I have some town reads but no scum reads as of yet, I need to read when its not early morning, however I think an

unvote

would be appropriate at the moment.

I always find that scum have hard times coming up with scum (since they know who is scum) and are trying to not buss their parnters.

In short Poro is on my scum list. He's been pretty quiet, nonagressive and doesn't really seem to try at all playing or scum hunting.

# Sando - on the fence. I found some good nuggets reading Sando but again another player not really pushing and prodding others. I get a lurkerish vibe without lurking but it's a vibe that I'm sure is just in my head.
I think my problem with Sando is our last game together he was scum and he could make mother teresa look like scum in my view. So chalk it up to lack of trust at this point.

[farside22]

vote: zajant

Any reason you didn't wait to get a claim before voting?

[farside22]

Based on meta ythan doesn't seem like his normal town self I would expect.

Jack any reason your voting MOI at this point?

[farside22]

Ythan, have you read the thread yet?

Eh not fully.

Based on meta ythan doesn't seem like his normal town self I would expect.

Weak. At least attempt to give some sort of description of what you're looking at. "Ythan doesn't look town because of magical inscrutable meta" is just dumb.

Our last 2 games where not only did you spam the thread to death you had an opinion about everything and everyone and were quiet rude.
This game you haven't done shit

[farside22]

I'm not having time to read like I used to folks. I'm currently at home today watching over the little one and my brain is mush. So my reads are based on gut, meta and overall impressions.
I'm going to look over zach today and sotty just because something sotty said catches my eye.
So far Volkan's reread is looking good.

[farside22]

I could care less about who I'm thrilling really.

Anyway, after looking back through the sequence of events, I think Porochaz is more likely scum than Sotty.

Unvote: Vote Porochaz

Like what?
Obviously not here to asked but there is no real reason or quotes or even much of a post behind this reason.

I don't think there exists a game outside of C9 where I post about everyone and everything. Also I have had active scum games, granted they are not common. I have also had less active town games, granted they are also not common.

Anyway you seem quite focused on me when it comes to lurking, but I should point out that you've pretty much ignored everyone else who didn't really post all that much yesterday.

Deflects attack from Sotty. Doesn't meantion players names on who he eles is lurking.

After catching up I'm still happy with my Magna vote.

I'd also be happy with a Zajnet or Porochaz lynch today. Porochaz's play has bothered me for reasons I've already pointed out (and has since faded out of the spotlight) and Zajnet seems to be posting just enough to stick around but hasn't really been doing all that much. Magna's reactions to him and the way he attacks him but never actually pressures him is something that's bothering to me...

After reading Charlie's play, he's done some strange things... but I can't really classify him as likely to be scum. His actions just seem too blatant to me, actions that draw a lot of attention, which is something scum generally don't want.

I don't like post that don't have quotes or examples. Where these reason's come from or why he believes things like this.
I usually think of lazy scum.

I really don't know why zach replaced. He's in other games and it bothers me when I see someone being pressured who replaces out of the blue

Jason/

Zachs 81 is correct... Sotty will usually go after Zach if she is town. (She goes after me when she is scum)

If this is fact can you link to the games she did this and why would you not vote her instead of charlie if this is fact?

Use my wiki dude.

But my point is that I use meta

all the time

. That makes it a null tell. How can you find me scummy for that?

because your case on Zach was solely based on your Meta of him... thats a Scum Sotty tatic, town sotty also uses game material to build a case.

mmmm so it's null then and should be noted as null not just scum

Well we get some examples later where I need to look into

The rest of today is one big yawn fest.

Zach reads scum to me.
Jason hasn't done much and instead of going back to who he thought was scum is going after Jack then backs down and has nothing to say after as far as scum

I'm going to say probable scum

*note: reading links to sotty that jason provided today

[farside22]

Okay so I read Sotty's game here and the one link to the MS to the game jason gave.
I see a few things I can say yeah I can see a bit of some of sotty's scum meta
This was the game for those wondering
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=25

1) going after an easy target.
2) not pushing much on anyone but Jack
3) meta case on Zach

However I notice Sotty's is more active in this game then the other game. She's not just making a case on Jack or meta. She's questioning and pushing things.
I think what I want from Sotty the most is a review of all the players saying who is scum and why with reasoning to get my fullest view on Sotty

As for Jason reading that game and this one I'm going from probable scum to definate scum

unvote:
vote: Jason

By the way this quote from the linked game that Jason gave should indicate why Jason is scum.

[farside22]

Jason is not null. I don't want to lynch anyone but him today.

We don't always get what we want. For example, moi is scum but I appear to be the only one voting him.

I would wagon ythan however. You would not wagon ythan?

I seriously don't see why or how MOI is scum. I did my reread of him in iso and he's been pretty good.
I agree with with Sotty on Jason as scum and I don't see how it is null at all.

[farside22]

Is the game still on going Jack? If not can I have a link?

[farside22]

So with vollkan being scummy (like imkingdavid) sotty is back on the town block.

I propose a sando-farside-jack-sotty "townie discussion group". Although maybe sando still thinks I'm mafia. But I think discussing the game with people you generally trust leads to more insight than arguing with mafia. Topics:

1) jason, guilty or scummy acting townie
2) ythan, lurkerscum?
3) vollkan, does his game summary show lack of real thought, or is it a byproduct of his playstyle? What about imkingdavid, what can we say about him?

1) Jason is guilty I looked at both zach and his play in regards to this
2) I vote yes
3) I don't know volkan's play style per say. I don't understand the final number and how porochaz is so low. I don't care about RL issues I have my own and I can still come on and scum hunt

[farside22]

I really don't know why zach replaced. He's in other games

and it bothers me when I see someone being pressured who replaces out of the blue

I caught this earlier, but didnt post as I wanted to check somethings out first before posting anything concrete.

Hmmm this is actually a lie designed to make the role I have replaced in, look even scummier. Zachrulez is not actually involved in any active games. the only games he is in... is a hydra account with Sotty herself. However, the Zachrulez account IS NOT currently playing any games. So this is a barefaced lie.

Major FOS: Farside

Looked at Zachrulez and he inned to IC on August 23rd. Read his post before you call out liars
Oh wait scum doesn't bother to check facts that make them look scummier

[farside22]

Looking at Zajnet in ISO, he really has not added much to the game.

Oh look were lurker hunting where's Porochaz in this post?

[farside22]

Oh and zach was in a game before August 21st so don't give me the he wasn't in another game liar comment again.

[farside22]

The case against Prozac as I see it is basically that he is being 'inactive'. He's raised valid RL issues. As somebody who has become inactive/passive in many games over his time because of RL committments, I have a firm position that somebody in a situation like Prozac's is NOT scummy. Farside, the fact that you can post despite having issues of your own is relevant for your meta, but entirely irrelevant to the question of whether Prozac is scum in this game. I don't like the way he is playing and I wish he would post more, but that doesn't make it scummy.

He's slacking off in this game. His "attacks" on others are highly questionable to downright lazy or at the very least not full of anything worthwhile.
At the end of day 1 he stated he reread the game and had no scum suspect.
Put the fact that RL issues is find and dandy I have had to replace do to RL issues but my main issue with Poro is his lack of scum hunting or offering anything of value which is why he is still on my scum list.
Those defending him while attacking others who state they are busy with RL issues (looks to Jason) gives me a connection I'm not backing off of.

[farside22]

Oh and zach was in a game before August 21st so don't give me the he wasn't in another game liar comment again.

but your post was 3 days after that... on the 24th August. I did do research. HHe was not active in any games at the time you made this comment. So yes, you have misrepped and lied to dirty the slot further.

I really don't know why zach replaced. He's in other games and it bothers me when I see someone being pressured who replaces out of the blue

He inned to another game on the 23rd. IE: he isn't that busy and I have seen scum do that before

[farside22]

The case against Prozac as I see it is basically that he is being 'inactive'. He's raised valid RL issues. As somebody who has become inactive/passive in many games over his time because of RL committments, I have a firm position that somebody in a situation like Prozac's is NOT scummy. Farside, the fact that you can post despite having issues of your own is relevant for your meta, but entirely irrelevant to the question of whether Prozac is scum in this game. I don't like the way he is playing and I wish he would post more, but that doesn't make it scummy.

He's slacking off in this game. His "attacks" on others are highly questionable to downright lazy or at the very least not full of anything worthwhile.
At the end of day 1 he stated he reread the game and had no scum suspect.
Put the fact that RL issues is find and dandy I have had to replace do to RL issues but my main issue with Poro is his lack of scum hunting or offering anything of value which is why he is still on my scum list.
Those defending him while attacking others who state they are busy with RL issues (looks to Jason) gives me a connection I'm not backing off of.

Where did Jason say he has RL issues?

Sorry it wasn't Jason that was having the RL issues. It was Zajent.

[farside22]

But and sorry to continue but it's early and I'm tired a bit.
I have issues with Jason who says this about Zajnet

Looking at Zajnet in ISO, he really has not added much to the game.

Hey the guy just said he was in school and had a lot going on. Poro nor CKD/Ythan have offered anything but when I see a player only point to one person "not adding much" I sense scum trying to flounder instead of scum hunting.

[farside22]

His post said he had "caught up", but he also said he didn't have scumreads. In a situation where you know as a matter of FACT that he is busy, it is ridiculous to think that he should therefore have proper suspicions formed. It's very easy to read a game, without having all the benefits that come from being an active player, and not be able to find anybody scummy, particularly where, as was clearly the case with Prozac, you are otherwse busy

FOS: Volkan

I don't like you giving Porzac a pass here and excusing his behavior in such a way.
No one I know is that RL busy that they do a reread and have no scum suspect that's just BS.

[farside22]

unvote, vote:Jason

Last page is pretty bad, someone hammer, don't wait for a claim.

Interesting you would not want a claim....

I am the doc, last night I protected Locke

Why would you "protect" Locke of all people?

[farside22]

Also stupid question incoming:
Does a weak doctor still protect a player? I assume yes but I'm not 100% on this.

[farside22]

Ok so I read back from page 10 and I said before its about as funny as scraping my eyeballs out with a rusty nail in that, I would have been voting Charlie by the end of day 1, and I would be voting Jason here. (I am going to let him answer farsides question though) My other read is on my biggest fan herself, farisde (!), as I stated before Im having trouble with her meta and whats more Im having trouble with the fact she is being a bit dickish towards my v/la, which is unusual for her, the mafia mum. However my case kinda boils down to her different attitude and I haven't played with her in a while but something is really really off. However I am finding myself unable to make a case which isnt meta and gut.

You have the sig thing turned off?
If so my sig has been stating this for about 5 months give or take

It's the bitch in me that enjoys seeing people get their comeuppance.

[farside22]

I need to look at the wagon's from day 1 and day 2.
Jack's play is starting to remind me of PYP2 where he was scum.
@Poro: Where are you in this game? What views do you have on those who voted for Jason

Zajant: input pronto!

[farside22]

Mod: I will be on V/LA Friday Sept 3rd and be back some time Monday Sept 6th.

[farside22]

Sotty: Why the vote on Ero? Is that from the other 2 flakers who barely said a word?
What about zajant or even Sando?

[farside22]

Well just looked at Ythan. I know he had internet problems around the 24th but Sotty is absolutely correct about his spamming around the site.
Times he posted here were 6 total with no real input and days he didn't post he was online elsewhere.

I have this deep gut feeling about Sando I can't shake his game play really reminds me of the game he was scum.
I need to do an analysis on him and Jack and Poro.
I won't be able to get to this all before my V/LA but I will have something before my trip for sure.

[farside22]

I just read Sando in this game and he is pretty much looking like lazy scum.
He attacked mostly Jack on day 1 with little comment towards anyone else and then votes for charlie.
Today he has gone back to day 2 more Jack is scum then votes for Volkan in what equates to an OMGUS vote
Today is now Porochaz who he said next to nothing about to what again equates to OMGUS vote.
He has done little to no scum hunting sticking with Jack and only attacking anyone who says things against him.

I looked into his past games of recent where boy all I found was him as scum and he comes off as rude, he scum hunts but attacks people pretty fiercely.

example:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 34&start=0

@Sando: Do you have an link to a game you were town that is not currently still ongoing?

I would also say compared to the link above Sando is close to actively lurking. I notice he's not in any other game and seems to be keeping a low profile here.

[farside22]

1 quick peak into Poro's recent posting on the site.
This alone makes me want to vote him as scum. He's posting fine in other games and active in comparison to this game.
I still want to go look at the analysis of him as scum vs town consider this an

FOS: Porochaz

[farside22]

I love how everyone is just like 'sando? ...yeah he's scum' once they look at him closely.

Based on some of my reads throughout this game I have a scum list, a town list and an inbetween not sure list.

Weren't you the one defending Jason all day yesterday.
Quick why is Zajant more scummier then Sando, Jack?

[farside22]

@sando this was the game we were in together where you were scum.

I'm not going to have more time to analysis tonight. I got a crap load of packing, organizing and family stuff to do before I leave tomorrow.

@Jack: Sorry for some reason I thought you were still voting Zajant
@Porochaz: your next in my analysis read
Still need to look at Zaj and Jack.
Locke where are you locke?

[farside22]

Just a reminder I'm leaving today to go out of town and won't be back till Monday.
Please don't lynch anyone till I finish my read. I would like to have a final analysis on my top 4 scum suspects before the day ends.

[farside22]

Hey all. I got back last night but have not had time to get to read what I missed with work and family stuff going on.
I should have time a bit tomorrow morning if not when I get home from work from work tomorrow night to catch up.
If I have any time tonight I will try and do a bit of catch up.

[farside22]

doing a quick read of what I missed and reading Ergo. I wanted to respond to this comment made.

farside22: Mentions a couple of times on day 1 that Zach is too defensive/not scumhunting, but is largely positive towards him, agreeing with his opinions of Poro and Zaj. He wasn't on her scumlist in 107, and in 237 she criticises Locke's vote on him. She also says in 235 that jason's catchup post was good, then doesn't mention him again until 340, where she says that she finds jason scummy based on Zach's play and puts the third vote on his wagon. This seems like a reversal of her opinion on day 1, though she never really called Zach town. After that it's gung ho until the lynch, based largely on Sotty's meta read on Zach and jason's poor play under pressure. I've done these kind of switches before when I've suddenly realised that someone I was only semi-paying attention to is scummy, so I could see farside as town. Her third vote and subsequent push were pivotal in getting jason from a small wagon to a lynch, and her tone is generally very convincing.

I will admit at the very least I'm having difficulty some days and having to go back and reread things over and over. It was 10 times easier to play mafia when you could read something every few hours and have the time to do the research then it is now. I'm sure in some people's mind (cough poro) I'm more stick to my guns and aggressive as town but with 20 things going on in my head these day's I forget where I was at.
As for Sando something Ergo stated about ignoring Jason. I've never known scum to blantantly forget mentioning their scum buddies or having something to say about them even small.

Finally on to Jack. I have an issue I need to rectify and I need to research before I spill what I think as scum/town. I have this vague recall about him as scum as a game and I need to reread a game to see if I"m right first before point out any issue.
If I'm wrong about my thought process then it won't matter and I will get an insight into Jack as scum rereading a past game.

[farside22]

Okay so I looked into PYP2 because Jack was scum in that game and I recalled playing with him.
I had thought that he didn't buss his scum buddies but I was wrong. He actually interacted with them on many levels in the game and worked one as scum and the other town attacking another player to be part of the WIFOM.
Then back off of it.
This is completely different in this game where Jason has some accusations from others and he called it null then backed off.
My biggest issue is that Jack's main attack has been on Zaj. He stated he finds Sando scum but hasn't voted for him today like he stated he did and his attack feel off pretty quickly.
I could see in this case a Sando/Jack scum team based on this weak attack and back off with the continuing attack on lurker Zaj (who should just asked to be replaced if he can't keep up)

I still want to look at a few more people on my scum list before I vote anyone.

[farside22]

If you don't believe me that I'm taking 16 hours of honors courses, I can send you my schedule. I have to budget the time that I do have. I posted in other games because I had more relevant stuff to say in them.

Your as bad as Poro if this is the case.
There is 3 days of stuff and you haven't said much of anything.

FOS: Zajnet

[farside22]

You have stated you have a scum read on Sando in 511. At the time you made this vote Sando had 3 votes and Jack only 1. If you think they are both members of the scum team why push on the member with less votes? Why are you afraid to put Sando at L-1?

This is something to remember if Jack does flip scum.
I know in the past I have seen scum bus in order to distance themselves for town cred.

I'm a bit beat but I will state in case people missed it that both Zaj and Poro are on my scum list. I have come across more scum that have "difficulty getting into the game" comments more and more then town.
Typically it's because of fear of being caught, not sure how to bus or fear of being caught saying something and just actively lurking.

[farside22]

I have no time tonight for this game. Going out with the family for dinner.
Locke: Why do you have gut town read from Poro? yes I know this is hard to explain but him posting elsewhere more frequently then here gives me scum gut read.

UGH I have more scum reads then town reads.
Poro
Jack
Sando
Zajent
Locke (seriously this is just always the case so it's difficult to believe)
I don't see MOI as scum, obviously Sotty

When is deadline?

[farside22]

Both Jack and Sando are at l-1.
I will have time to go over both people a little more thoroughly.

[farside22]

Sando-Zajnet. Do the right thing farside.

I know this thought came into my mind briefly but god help me I don't remember why.
Sorry I'm planning a b-day party for the hubby and I have too much in my mind.
I will have to get my head into this game and I need 30 minutes uninterrupted.
Be back with a comparison shortly.

[farside22]

Okay after a brief few minutes of looking and reminding myself about a few things I believe Sando is scum
I have this kick in the gut that maybe Jack/Sando are scum together but I'm not going to worry about that this moment is who is scummier and why.

Sando's play is a lot like another game that was mentioned where he tried to push a counter wagon when his scum parnter was targetted. He tried often to push on Jack and never said anything about Jason/Zach.
Sando has made little to no case on anyone but Jack and then only attacks others who have attacked him (poro/volk)
Also as much as Jack has been scummy in regards to Jason's wagon I know Jack has bussed his scum partners with no disregard for anything else but to look more townie. This alone leans me Jack town (but slightly)
If I'm correct about Sando as scum I would put money on Poro or Zaj as his scum partner based on some interesting lack of comments and in one case the weak attack that Sando did on Poro.

Vote: Sando

[farside22]

Lots to read and think about.
I'm behind I know it, we know it and I completely missed a lynch of scum.
I'm going to look into a couple of things that Sotty stated, CBD, Jason, Zach, Ythan and Ergo

[farside22]

Hey all. Sorry I have been really busy. I'm planning a big party for this Saturday and haven't had time to read or sit for more then 10 minutes at the computer.
I hope (cross fingers) to have time tomorrow to read and respond to this game.
Right consider me on Limited Access this week. I still have a few things I need to get done for this party and not enough time.

[farside22]

I'm sorry things are just too crazy for words for me. I realize that as much as I really wanted to play mafia I have no time for it.

Mod: I'm going to need to be replaced.

I'm very sorry.

Replaced by boberz. - Incog-mod