NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Xite91]

It would help if you had given us a link.
That's me confirming.

QFT
/confirm

[Xite91]

1) Xite91

2) JDodge

3) a2rudeboy

4) Hiphop

5) Kise

6) Wickedestjr

7) Wraith

8) Mysterio

9) Singersigner

10) Shanba

11) Seth

12) Benmage

13) ConfidAnon

14) Flinter

15) Nhammen

16) Porochaz

17) danakillsu

18) Furcolow

19) Johnny Rotten

20) Orochi

21) Sebguer

22) Bunny Lover

23) Reck

24) UltimaAvalon

Wow, only 4 people I've played with before!
Nice to be playing with the 4 of you again!
And nice to meet the rest of you
Oh, btw

@Mod A2Rudeboy is currently experiencing difficulties with his computer and you probably won't get a confirm from him until late, if at all

[Xite91]

/confirm

and as agar and xite kindly informed:

perpetual state of v/la. massive computer issues. am around to post as often as i can get something off at work, so when i do i'll try and make it count. sorry, guys.

It was CA, not Agar (hint: Agar's not in this game)

/confirm
hi xite

Do I know you? o.o

[Xite91]

@Furcolow (can I call you fur?)
Sorry, didn't realize it was in response to that for some reason

[Xite91]

Your name is now Frank

I lol'd

This will be expressed in the votecounts as well.

And then a little harder.

[Xite91]

Vote: Mysterio

REVENGE!

[Xite91]

Vote: Frank

For questioning the mod's ability to count votes.

@Xite, I wonder if you'll fall for it again?

Maybe I can't this time
I still don't see what it was I did, but eh. (Partially because I forgot my alignment until about the time I was hammered lulz)

Vote: Mysterio

Vote: Frank

yea.... great BANDWAGON.

Want to try again?

lolwut?
Why? It's RVS!

[Xite91]

lolwut?
Why? It's RVS!

Perfect time to start.
Haven't you ever heard the phrase, "hit the ground running"(I think that is how it goes)?
Also why not?

Because I'm going to vote for
1st - My RVS vote
2nd (sometimes 3rd and 4th as well, but only sometimes) - Who I think I would get the most information from said vote
3rd (or 4th or 5th) and so on - Who I think is scum, usually my top candidate, and other times my second or third based on if I'll get more info/if I can get a better wagon on them

^And I'm not forcing you to play that way but that's how I think this game should be played.

But eh, if you want a wagon I can start one.

Unvote, Vote: HipHop

So, lets get these wheels rollin?

[Xite91]

@Hiphop - Iunno, I see this one going far ^__^

[Xite91]

But eh, if you want a wagon I can start one.

Unvote, Vote: HipHop

So, lets get these wheels rollin?

ok, then....I guess I need to explain something.

I wanted a bw, you seem to want to appease me. Therefore to give me what I want, you vote someone who i can vote for too. Therefore I get my bw,and you get to appease me. Right? Or am i wrong?

You can self-vote, kupo.

QFT.
Also, it was more for the irony, besides, you want a wagon for the info right? So why's it matter who's it on?

1) Joke... you know, voting hip-hop since it's a musical genre and all.
2) K.
3) You expect me to claim scum, really? Would you expect

anyone

to claim scum? That's about as useful as a mass-town claim.

3) Mysterio thinks I would

[Xite91]

Well it's funny to see the reactions I got from pretending I knew UA was scum. I have played with him before, I believe. At any rate, no one as experienced as me would really pretend that they knew someone was scum in the RVS. And the fact that it's tradition to start with a bandwagon on UA should make my actions even less remarkable. Anyway, I'm glad I make it worth it to you, UA.

unvote

Good to see some discussion starting.

You know, I saw this list of rules once that had something that relates directly to this, lemme see if I can find it

Oh, here it is

As an addendum to this list of rules, I'd like to walk you through a few things from that wonderful repository of knowledge, Cracked.com.




You are not some evil genius, criminal mastermind, or master debater.  That honor belongs to me.  Although, I'll let morgul have the title of Mas. Debater.  :blink:

You can check out the full list here

Whatever. Wagon me. Don't care. You'll probably realize it's pointless eventually, because I know the people here in general are smart enough to see through your lies. It's obvious Poro just wants me lynched, because all he's done is say my post is BS without saying why or how that makes me scum. I'm not going to stoop to the level of "no, it's not". The truth of that post is for me to know, and for you to guess. Poro is guessing.

AtE

@JDodge
It's nice to see your hypocrisy right off the bat. Your mindless bandwagoning is no better than Benmage's. You provided a little "reasoning" meant to make it look somewhat less mindless, but all it was was a statement with nothing to back it. You simply said that my postulation that no one as experienced as I am would do such a thing (which is obviously true) was "BS" without explaining why, which is EXACTLY what Poro said. So you both are doing the same thing, and pointing fingers at each other while doing it.

More AtE
Also, no explanation is really needed, but in case you needed it, go check out that quote from the other site I put up.

But I can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing from dana, so

FoS Jdodge and dana

Will be voting dana as soon as I see the votecount (don't want to get anywhere near L-1/hammer without a LOT more conversation)

[Xite91]

First, Frank is also scum
Dana could just be really bad town, but depending on other flips could be scum too.
Wraith is scum.
Jdodge is possible scum.

Keep reading for the inside scoop!

But I can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing from dana, so

Do you have anything tangible, or just a feeling?

Distancing... that IS the tangible part of it. The way you're acting towards him seems like distancing to me. It's a common scum tactic D1.
That being said, I'm willing to wait to see more from Jdodge.

OK.

If you thought that dana thought we were still random voting, how does him voting Shanba mean anything whatsoever?

People who say "there's no way I'm changing my vote" scare the hell out of me. There is no reason at any point to not want to be flexible to whom we lynch on any given day.

And now you're defending Dana? To frank? Could be scum coaching, but for some reason I don't see scum slipping up that much at once, so I'll wait to see more from Jdodge

Ohai, look how that wagon grew.
OMG! HI FRANK WANNA ATTACK DANA MOAR?>???!
That's right, he is bussing so frickin bad that I feel he should just admit it at this point.
seriously, how did no one else catch that?
By the way, I call it bussing because the case sucks and he's attacking so violently so that later he can go look at me guys, I caught scum, that means I'm town.
In case people can't think for themselves

@Dana - It was the point of you being like "It was my plan all along!"

Oh, no, I agree, we should def lynch Dana before those who might also be scum have a chance to post. Good call.

Show me where Dana said "I'm experienced, listen to me"

two spots. there you go dani.

You're voting me because I am pushing you AND your scumbuddy.

First, just want to point out that Frank's an idiot.
I would have said something similar to the first quote had I had the chance.
The second point was him trying to say that hyperbole is bad for this game.
So... then every time someone tells you that you're wrong and need to learn2play (and actually even try to show you how) you're going to call them scum and pair them with the rest of your "scumgroup"? Noted

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes.

Vote: danakillsu

Mod, votecount please.

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

Oh, by the way, Wraith is also scum.
There are so many textbook tells in just that post. Just sayin.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes.

Vote: danakillsu

Really bad voting fail.

QFT

It's an obvious OMGUS. I'm sitting here attacking you. You say "i'm gonna scumhunt uz gaiz", you go away for like 2 minutes, then OMGUS me.

You had no fucking time to read everyone in iso or read the thread. You just tried to nitpick so it didn't look like that. Oh my god, you suck.


EBWOPreview:
@UA: I didn't expect myself to be willing to change my vote. That was before I read through. Imagine this scenario:

There are two wolves in the forest, who have been terrorizing our sheep. Would you rather kill the bigger wolf? I know I would. That is why I would change my vote to you, because you are much more dangerous as scum than Danakillsu, and I believe both of you are scum.

First, he has a HUGE wagon on him, so OMGUS doesn't so much count for him. Also, you were pushing a pretty bad case against him, I would vote you if I were him too.
Next, maybe he was keeping up with the game before that? Just maybe.
Last, leave the metaphors to the pros, kid. Also, I would kill em both.

Because it's not what I know, it's what I can convince everyone else

. What I know is my role. What I don't know is anyone else's roles. I hate to have to be teaching Mafia 101 to you, but I guess that's where we're at.

The town are not going to allow my lynching of UAscum. They, for some reason, do not as a collective suspect him yet. When you flip scum, though, they'll begin to see that I was right. Actually, maybe not, because UA will kill me in the night.

Point yourself out, then dana. You are obvscum, as is reflected by the votecount.

Everyone, quick follow my lead!
*Facepalm*
Now that that's over, bolded is an obvscumslip, Frank, maybe you should go take that class before you try to teach it
That second line is a steaming pile of AtE and should be treated as no more than that.
Votecount rarely has anything to do with it until a couple flips.

I'm not saying every wagon is good, either. I'm simply saying one on you or one on UA would be good. You may quit responding to me, we have reached an impasse.

If you respond, I'm simply going to ignore it, as you shouldn't be in this game when sane townies come online

Teehee. This tickled me a bit inside.
Why have we not lynched this scum yet?

Or, you could just take 2 Alieve to stop pain all day

I lol'd

@dana: I voted for you because:

1. You voted UA because "something's not right with his self-vote" then suddenly backtrack when called out on it by saying "I was reaction fishing." BS excuse.
2. Xite made an excellent WoT pointing out all your AtE. You are flailing and despite believing your death is inevitable are making no attempt to help the town to your dying breath.
3. The OMGUS

The OMGUS was an obvious RV. Don't piggy back on my case, make your own. I don't remember when 1 happened.

Of course I was (at least kind of) joking. I had no real reason to say what I said seriously.

That's why I turned to my experience. After 10 games completed, I definitely know the basics of scumtells. And self-voting is not one of them. And yeah, I was pretty much lying in the first post (joking is more accurate). But calling everything in the second post BS is what Poro did, and what I thought you were doing.

Huh? You were kind of joking, which meant there was seriousness involved, but you had no reason to say what you said seriously?

Yeah, I come from a very different background than most of you, I bet, so my posts would naturally stick out. That's what I've always thought, anyway. Trust me, though, I've been town in at least 5 games where the overwhelming majority of the other players were completely sure I was scum. Not that I expect that to really help me in this game. I wouldn't know about Furcolow, but I'm pretty sure he isn't usually posting this way (I have played one game with him in it).

Ooh, wanna hear about my background with no dad, growing up in the ghetto being raised on video games? Yeah, everyone has a different story, but that doesn't mean that that excuses you from being scummy. Just sayin.

Well, I was just getting settled in. I should take the spotlight less, but if it benefits us as a town by nabbing two scum, I will keep doing it. If there is but 1 mislynch, I offer myself up to be lynched if you guys want.

Or we could just skip the mislynch and lynch you now?

Unvote, Vote Frank

Too many people all attacking each other for some reason that probably shouldn't be attacking :<.
You all gave me a headache reading these pages <_<.
I haven't gotten any reads on who could be positive scummy, so my vote can wait.

Hello. No opinion at all after 7 pages of pretty much content. Might not be major to you but you should be mentioning the minor things instead of giving yourself an excuse to hide in the shadows.

Wasn't giving myself an excuse, I simply have nothing to add at this point, but when I do I will post, like now.
I have a different way of thinking which could mean that my thought process of this could be totally off, but it seems like you want me to vote for one of the several people that are gaining the attention (Dana, UA, JDodge, etc.) of most of the group, or you want me to find some minor detail that will allow others to exploit which could mean nothing at all. There is no point in me mention minor detail unless someone wants a specific person dead or will is trying to lead some down a wrong path and stray from mafia.
Like I said I have a different way of viewing things, which could mean my entire post is wrong.

Everyone views things differently, refer back to coming from different backgrounds.
Stop active lurking plox.
There is no excuse for doing so.

Well. nhamn's post does not seem at all patronizing or oversimplifying, does it? Not to mention the fact that he pretty much dismisses at least half of this thread as useless.

You're right, it's more like 3/4 or something.

Wow bunny.... didn't I just read that exact same thing from you? Play or replace out.

@nhammen: Would you care to explain yourself on your acting like dana actually made a case on me previous to me making mine on him? What do you hope to gain from this? Were you testing to see if I was actually reading? Would you like me to lump you in on a scum team with him, because that's what you're making me do. Explain why you purposefully did that, or explain why you didn't actually even read the topic past page 2.

Did I call it or what? Lemme guess, I'll be the next person that's scum, right frank?

Hello. No opinion at all after 7 pages of pretty much content. Might not be major to you but you should be mentioning the minor things instead of giving yourself an excuse to hide in the shadows.

No opinion after 8 pages. As far as I care I just want a bw.

vote danakillsu

This is my 2nd large normal. Even though I was scum in the last one, day 1 is the same to me. As far as I am concerned the only thing useful day one after day 1 is the bws. Hitting scum day 1 in a large normal is luck, so let's just lynch someone and get it over with.

Yes, but the wagon is only useful with the info that comes with it.

Okay, so my scum list

Frank
Wraith
Bunny

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana
Jdodge
Hiphop

So, yeah

[Xite91]

@Nhammen/Xite's WoT: QFT.

At this point, there's not a whole lot of new information/questions I can bring to the table, but I agree with hiphop (/Xite's response) about the bandwagons. With this many people, chances are a mislynch (unless obvscumslip) will occur, so the best way to extort more reactions is by finishing a bandwagon D1, and seeing where that leads us in the next day.

From what I can tell, Dana's case on Frank is weak, and if they're a scum-pair, it's only to distance himself later, saying, "no hey, look what I did. why would I vote for my scum-buddy??" Unless Dana can provide a better defense of himself, or a better case on someone else, I'm going to VOTE: danakillsu, putting him at L-2 by my votecount.

@Xite...I find myself inclined to agree with your case on Frank, but for now I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens.


And damn you people, you couldn't have spread your responses a little thinner while I was at band camp all day?? That was a lot to catch up on! lol.

...

Oh, lemme add one more to that not so sure, but possibly scummy thing
singersigner

Are you going to bring in any new ideas of your own after being gone?

[Xite91]

Xite, kid? you're fucking 19.

Lulz... and that makes a difference... how?

and if i'm your top suspect, we are obviously not reading the same game

Considering you just tried to use my age do discredit me? Nope, pretty sure we're reading the same game. Have a real defense?

I think that both Danakillsu and Furcolow are both town. Furcolow in particular, because I get the impression that he's trying to impress the town which is a strong town tell imo. The two main things that give me this impression are his bad metaphors + his confidence in his reads. Danakillsu also looks like town, because of his reaction to the attack from Furcolow. I agree that their posts are illogical, but I disagree that they are scum.

Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it

without voting anyone

makes me think you're looking for a reaction

Flinter, stop trying to apologize for "insulting" people, it's embarrassing. If you're going to say something, be strong about what you say, timid people in this game annoy me.

1) Xite, please, when you are making a point, do it complete and correct. Show how the appeal to emotion is in anyway scummy, as we are human beings and emotions are good. I like emotions, as they can tell you who is town or scum.

2) "can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing" is a horrible argument. You have no reason to believe this (or you would have given it), but still you act on it. And I don't know what your experience is, but discussions like these are most often between two townies or one towny and one scum. I would gladly hear your reason why this case is between two scum, and if you don't have one, I would like you to pick which side of this argument (JDodge's or Dana's) you like best.

3) @ the rest. From this post, my doubts about this bandwagon get confirmed. It just is too easy. Dana OMGUS-votes twice, "lies" in one of his first posts, votes people for "contradictions" and argues with anybody who attacks him. If he is scum, he would be a maniac (sorry if you are actually scum), as in the first newby game everybody is told not to OMGUS-vote, and scum is more concious of such rules.

1) When I use AtE I mean it as in it's AtE in a scummy way. Hell, my saying hi to everyone could have been considered AtE, but it wasn't suspicious, it was that added with his other posts, which was why his other posts were there. I felt that didn't need explanation.
2) Lessee...

he calls Dana out for points, but doesn't vote right away

, also he uses terms like dim-witted against him and such and such, then when there's three other votes on dana he votes, then for the most part ignores him then... comes to his rescue that would be my point on why they're distancing.
You can ignore anything after the italicized, that was what you were looking for when you asked (I think). The rest is my reasoning why I still kept that feeling
3) I fuckin hate cases like this, did you ever assume that maybe just maybe things can be that easy? Are you a pessimist?

1) you just named all the notable posters and excluded Shanba because he posts as if he is your best friend?

2) The case sucks. So that must mean both the accused and the accuser are scum, right? Oh, and why would they bus? I see no motivations. Then, might there be a scenario where one of them is town, or where both of them are town? And would such a scenario be more likely then the scenario you proposed?

I think so. I'm sorry xite, but I think you are scum that just loves to apply pressure to both sides, while there isn't a good reason to do so.

3) The nonchalance is fake. Why did you do it? I guess to make your point (correct me if I'm wrong). You say there are tells in that post, but you don't point them out. I believe you didn't point them out because they weren't there and trying to brew tells out of that post would make your point seem weak.
4) First, you should love emotions, not hate them.

5) Second, the bolded part shows how you were searching the thread. If you were scumhunting, you could have seen that part as made by town and by scum, and it wouldn't have caught your eye. But if you were looking to make a case on Furcolow, in stead of hunting scum, that bolded part can easily be twisted into a scumslip.

6)

FoS Xite

1) He hasn't done anything notable yet, IMO. If he does, I'll let you know.
2) Really? Frank started at him like a rabid dog AFTER he had a ton of votes on him. That's why it seems like bussing. Of course, this could be him trying to get a townie lynched, but surely he would know that if Dana flipped town that he'd be the next lynch with the way he's attacking, right?
3) What do you mean, nonchalance? That was just me being me. And if you really need help understanding the textbook tells in that, fine I'll point them out.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes.

Vote: danakillsu

Mod, votecount please.

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

First line, I applaud you good people! second sentence - I'll make a comment unrelated to the point I get at at the end of my sentence, then use an obvious Joke vote as what made me positive he's scum. Third sentence - Here's where towncreds happen, here's where I make it easy to change my perspective right before dana gets lynched, and now a vote.

Then he asks for a votecount. This may just be me, but in my experience when a person's first serious post asks for a votecount, they are usually scum.

And then guessing another gamer, not really anything to do with his tells, it's just interesting.

4) I don't hate emotions, I hate when they're used to manipulate people

5) Oh, was I really searching the thread? It couldn't have been that maybe while I was reading through I noticed scummy things? No not at all

6) Wait, didn't you just vote me in that same post somewhere? (Iunno where, I deleted it to save space)

Ohai, look how that wagon grew.
OMG! HI FRANK WANNA ATTACK DANA MOAR?>???!
That's right, he is bussing so frickin bad that I feel he should just admit it at this point.
seriously, how did no one else catch that?
By the way, I call it bussing because the case sucks and he's attacking so violently so that later he can go look at me guys, I caught scum, that means I'm town.
In case people can't think for themselves

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana

You do realize that in order for quote one to be true, dana has to be scum. Yet for some odd reason you believe that dana is less likely to be scum then Frank. Why do you jump over dana?

Because, as I said, Frank could be just working

really

hard to get a townie lynched, as I only see newbscum doing this, I'm not sure if that's the case, but Frank does seem pretty newbish

@Wraith's last post;
1) Your plan to fool the town is not working, at least with me.
2) If dana is at L-2, maybe it's time for a claim?

[Xite91]

5) Oh, was I really searching the thread? It couldn't have been that maybe while I was reading through I noticed scummy things? No not at all

I wonder, did you ever hear about sarcasm being a standard scumtell? (esspecially when you are accused of something scummy?)

6) Wait, didn't you just vote me in that same post somewhere?

yes I did at the beginning. I forgot to delete it as a I read wicked's post and decided I liked a mysterio vote better.

WARNING: L-2

I strongly suggest we take a look at the people defending or buddying dana before we lynch. If we do in fact mislynch I'm not confident there's enough material here to find scum Day 2.

Wraith, would you be so kind to start the investigation on a few other players, so that we will have enough "material"?

Because this was just an empty post.

5) Try and use it as a scumtell against me. I dare you.
6) Alright, not scummy ATM but it is at least noted.

Also, read post 242

[Xite91]

@Mysterio - Okay. Makes sense.

Unvote.

1: Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
2: I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it without voting anyone makes me think you're looking for a reaction

1: Umm...what?
2: First of all, I have voted. I voted Mysterio. Second of all, is there a problem with me looking for reactions? What is the point of this statement?

Xite, do you think flinter's attack against you is suspicious?

It's not as suspicious as other things, but something to keep noted for sure.

@"Xite": Because, as I said, Frank could be just working really hard to get a townie lynched, as I only see newbscum doing this, I'm not sure if that's the case, but Frank does seem pretty newbish

You joined this site when? June? You're 19? I'm not the best player in the world yet, but I am both older than you and more experienced than you when it comes to mafia. I have played in about 20+ games so far on and off site, and I have a very good win ratio if you factor in TL.

I lol'd.
Probably too hard.
I have been playing for at least a year and a half and have played over 40 or so IRL games (It's big where I was at)
Also, I have been watching online games way too much more than I should and I have even completed a few of my own. Most of my games on this site are ongoing, but hey, that doesn't mean I'm inexperienced.
Also, don't ever rule out the idea of an alt (not that I am one)

Prozac, you're frickin hilarious and it's an honor to play with you.

I'm a cop. Breadcrumb in iso 23 "Could Of Played". Will post more at around 9:30 CST.

Shit.

Unvote

.
A bit flimsy but the breadcrumb helps.

Not seeing how the "breadcrumb" says anything. But still, I'm not so apt to believe him.

[Xite91]

Oh shit I forgot one of my points.
@Frank, you said that you can give me your meta on another site, that you then went to say that you're playing differently on this site than that one altogether? So what would that prove?

[Xite91]

Wow, I just realized I'm an idiot, so now I caught the breadcrumb, but that's too easy for ANYONE to do.

[Xite91]

None of that exposition was necessary, nor does it even help your case. The fact is we have to unvote simply because we can't know either way. Thing is, if you're not a cop, you'll be outed soon enough. So, no harm in letting you live for now.

Unvote

Actually no. I'm more then sure in this large game number their will be a mafia roleblocker, who could possible stop him from invistgating. I would suggest if we have a tracker to track him to see if he visits anyone, or if he is visit by someone, I think it works both way right?

I think this is a good idea, only problem is that it outs at least 2 PRs
Also, a doc will probably try to protect a cop, so the tracker says he targeted some (if he's IS a cop), and was targeted by XXXX and XXXX (a blocker and a doc or a goon and a doc or etc etc) or even more than that.
With this there are two outed PR's for sure (cop and tracker), then out a doc OR get a doc lynched all in exchange for 1 out of probably between 5 and 7 scum depending on how they're set up.

Also you have to keep in mind that most of the time trackers get who they visited and watchers get who visited them, but there are cases with trackers doing both

[Xite91]

The doctor doesn't have to protect, that his/her choice. Reason been is because the mafia would assume that the doctor would protect the cop, which would mean they wouldn't try and kill him/her, they would just roleblock the doctor, making us kill him since he didn't get to invisitgate anyone, and them getting the ability to still night lynch. Which means the mafia now has a 50/50 chance of hitting the cop, it all depends if they want to risk thinking that the doctor didn't protect him.
Also, I probably doubt their is only one cop role in this game, since its 24 people probably their more invisitgating people

Please re-explain this, I think that you mixed up some words.

[Xite91]

"people were saying if he doesn't find anything, we shall lynch him."

Who said that?

[Xite91]

xite, do you believe the claim or not? It wasn't entirely clear to me from your post where you mentioned it.

No, but I will wait to push a lynch until I see a few more flips.

wow, you all realize believed that fakeclaim and breadcrumb? *facepalm*

Haven't we all been saying that it's not necessarily a belief in the claim, but more so a disbelief in lynching a claimed cop D1? Most of it's been skepticism, with Bunnylover basically laying out why it would be unwise to lynch him D1, anyway. I don't know why you would think otherwise...

Stop acting like you

know

you've got scum; both his and your cases on each other were weak. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you two are playing some wacked up scum-team game with each other, crucifying one to make the other look that much more innocent.

Polly wanna cracker???

If this claim is indeed fake, and there is a cop around, I would ask him not to counterclaim. It wouldn't make sense as dana wouldn't be the most valuable scum, and the cop could do some major damage to the scumteam in a large game (he stays alive for longer, and might save up a few results).

Does anybody know if the mod is known for using cops?

First bit: I'm debating coming after you based on some meta-type ideas I recently saw.

This is a dumb question. It doesn't matter if he is or not because he could or could not be here.

It's a hard bargain, but I think I'll believe the claim, for now.

Unvote

Sorry, meant to post more ISOs but got wrapped up in another game, then had a thing last night. Getting on a couple right now. Hiphop and Furcolow.

I lol'd a little when I saw you saying you're gonna ISO two of the biggest suspects in the game so far

9: attacks Xite for voting dana despite suspecting Furcolow more

(hypocrisy, he votes for wagons for the sake of them being wagons)

Hiphop is either blatant scum trying to slip under the radar or really dumb town who won't contribute until Day 2. His single-minded crusade for a bandwagon of some kind is unsettling.

9: I never voted dana. Also, it was based on something he thought was a contradiction, which I totally understand his thought process for.
blatant scum trying to slip under the radar? How does that even work?

As for your next ISO
Don't ISO people unless you're going to point out what in the ISO you don't like. That was just a waste of space IMHO

Guess I got ahead of myself, but more then likely the cop would get lynch after claiming, then coming up empty handed, right?
Could I have sworn at least two people had stated it :<

Do you really wanna start WIFOM? There are a lot of things that could happen. Which I'm going to show in my next post.

1) He's asking why the AtE was scummy. You can't just say, it's scummy because I think it was scummy. Well... you kinda did, but still!
2) Yeah, it kinda looks like distancing... but, talking about distancing before even seeing a flip is called confirmation bias.
3) Agree. Too scummy to be scum is not a good argument.

1) I said it was the combined posts. ISO me. I can't explain it, you have to read it.
2) What if I get NK'd? Then you won't have my opinion on people. That is not pro-town at all. Plus, if I'm scum it's info for the town as well. You telling me not to say it is just you saying you don't want information in every scenario imaginable.
3)

unvote vote: hiphop

He's not just a lurker, he's a scummy one, too. And I'm not getting anywhere by voting for Frankscum. Would be willing to vote for Wraith if a decent wagon got started, or obviously for Frank.

"Don't mind me, I'm just trying to make sure attention stays on someone else"

9.Wrong. I attacked xite because he claimed that frank was bussing dana. I don't care, who you are, the only way it can be a bus is if both dana and frank are scum. Yet Frank is in the list not so sure scum. Why? His response was this

Because, as I said, Frank could be just working

really

hard to get a townie lynched, as I only see newbscum doing this,

I'm not sure if that's the case

, but Frank does seem pretty newbish

Look what I bolded. His rebuttal basically comes back says my origninal point. Frank is bussing. Then again, why use someting in a case that he is not sure of?
Either way your analysis of iso 9 is bs.

Because I'm sure of frank, just not dana yet. I have to wait to see some flips first.

I've only caught up to wraiths post, and he said he wants to see my reaction to the cop claim, so here it is:

I'll be giving my whole mafia theory based on this post after the post you're reading now.

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

you are also close-minded if you think that it is impossible to lynch someone for a fakeclaim, which is obviously a fakeclaim, due to a shitty ass breadcrumb

you make me sick

Oh yeah, because you're sooo protown /sarcasm

I'd like moderator clarification on scum's ability to talk

Really? Idiot.

Frank needs to shut up and die, wraith is a definite scumbuddy
Myst: He suspected me and a few others that voted him earlier too

Stay tuned for mafia theory 101!

[Xite91]

Okay!
Time for some mafia theory/other stuff.

If you find something to be off, please correct me on it, this is just based off of my experience (and mostly based off of RL game theory)

This game has 24 players

That means in order for there to be balance there should be somewhere between 5 and 7 scum. (I'm

assuming

hoping that there's not SK's or third parties and that this game is balanced)

If there were 5 scum I could guess that there are either 2 teams, one with 2 and one with 3 scum or 1 team with all 5.
If there is a group of 2 and 3 I would assume that they both have kills (in order to progress the game a bit faster/ give the scum a bit more of a chance) Also, the group of 3 would have a roleblocker.
Out of the 19 players, there would probably only be between 5 and 8 PR's, because of the theory that less can often be more because town can oftentimes cause themselves problems by multiple PRs targeting the same target.
In a basic setup I could see 2 cops, 2 doc, and 1 vig. If there are more, I can see a group of 3 masons (confirmed or unconfirmed, but more than likely all town) and/or 1 town RBer

If they are all 5 scum together, then I can see 2 NK abilities, one RBer and possibly (if there are masons) 1 scum in a mason group

If there was a group of 6, it would be 3 and 3 and the only difference to 2 and 3 I would see is if there were masons, then one would be scum and he would be in the group without the RBer

If there is a group of 7, they are probably 1 full group with 2 NK abilities, 1-2 RBers, and possible ready-given fake claims (as a group of 7 would be easier to catch because they all know of each other)
With this as the case, I see almost no chance of masons, and instead and extra cop, and at least 1 town RBer

So, in any of these scenarios, there should be no more than 3 NK's per night.

Note: I doubt that there are masons, but the possibility is there.
I also doubt two teams of 2 and 3 because scum CAN cross-kill, making it highly unbalanced, at least for the team of 2.

Okay, so now that that is all said, cops should not counter claim because there are probably as few as 2 and as great as 3 cops in this game.
There is almost definitely at least 2 protective roles, but I feel that Dana should not be protected tonight as for a WIFOM case stated here:
If dana is scum, it will become more apparent
If he is not, scum will either
A leave him and try to get us to lynch him
B NK him
If he is left alone (either because he's scum or town) we should wait to lynch him until about D3 or 4 when we can be positive he is scum, or a cop can investigate him and breadcrumb but not claim his read on him until at least D3 or 4. If you get lynched/NK'd then we can look back and find your crumbs as we will know then that you are a cop.
If he is NK'd then scum helped themselves a bit, but not by much because as I said, there are probably 2 cops.

Frank and Wraith are almost definitely scum together, but I will have to wait and see if there are 1 or 2 scumgroups (After a 3rd or 4th scum flip, or until I see where the NK's go, and how many there are.) but I am willing to bet that it is a single scumgroup of 7.

Okay, now I shouldn't be posting much more theory in this game until at least D2, but probably until D4, depending on the chain of events.
Now back to the game.

[Xite91]

xite, stop the ad hom right now

vote: xite

Still too lazy to check what ad hom means...

*confusing self with thought*

I need to take a break. I'm obviously doing things too fast (ie my ISOs, which are definitely not as good as some in my previous games).

@Xite: If I was scum with Furcolow, I would not be doing this much defending. I just think he's a bad D1 lynch. Personally I think he should vigkilled during a later night because he draws so much damn fire from everyone. It'll be very easy for the scum to manipulate the town into lynching him. I'm assuming Furcolow is town because he's too easy to lynch. If he was scum he wouldn't attract this much attention to himself. Therefore, I believe at least one or two scum are part of the "lynch Furcolow" mob.

I'm pretty sure I said something about hating "it's too easy" cases.

[Xite91]

Thanks UA!
But still, it was because I was too lazy to look at the wiki even
But yeah, Frank, I have more than just "you're and idiot" To go off of, and have even pointed these out, so yeah.

[Xite91]

@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.

Considering this is a normal game, I expected very basic roles, also 6 or 7 is mathematically sound according to statistical analysis (Again, this is based on discussions IRL, and RL games so I guess it could be different online?)

That'd be easier if this game wasn't going 10000 miles an hour.

The game just started, it will slow down soon, but for now just try your best to keep up. And if you want a case on Frank, then just give him a look in ISO

[Xite91]

EBWOP
Holy shit, singer gave some new ideas

[Xite91]

@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.

Considering this is a normal game, I expected very basic roles, also 6 or 7 is mathematically sound according to statistical analysis (Again, this is based on discussions IRL, and RL games so I guess it could be different online?)

You will notice that those are proposed roles for normal games. From my knowledge of BBM, he'll more than likely be fairly adventurous, and doc/cop can be a broken mechanic. I wouldn't base your thoughts on the game from experiences IRL, apparently not very similar. Reck went to a scummers meet, recently, he could probably agree/disagree with me on that issue. In any case as I said before, whilst I do enjoy getting a bit into this, its almost always a mistake too. Anything about the setup we guess would only be just that, and its not a good road to go down.

I pointed it out because of Franks post on his mafia theory, I was giving him mine in rebuttal, but I do agree that we should drop it for now, at least until we a few flips

I have to think a bit. If I can get some attacks and defenses going off around me, I might be able to make a good D1 lynch, so you can get some reads when I flip. Stay tuned, I'm gonna do some scumhunting tomorrow when I get home in the evening.

Way to give yourself an excuse for later.

Okay, so I think that we should either decide on a frank or a wraith lynch

[Xite91]

There are already attacks going off around you, whilst I appreciate the effort of actually playing the game, which is actually turning into a novelty...

Wait, are you about to do the lynch me now gambit I've seen you do before? Because it's a really sucky move, it would only be your opinions only and your interactions, and if your town you are distracting us from a scum lynch. Put it this way, if we were rolling a d24 dice, and lynched the corresponding number that would be between 4/5% of catching scum. If you are town and you are looking for us to lynch you, that drops 4/5%.

What I don't want is a Frank lynch, because his flip will give us nothing. However, because I don't want a Frank lynch, people are accusing me of scumbuddying with Frank. Therefore, if someone is going to be the sacrificial lamb, I'm the better lynch.

His flip will give us plenty, especially when he flips scum.
Also, what info will your lynch get us?

[Xite91]

What you make of it. Better than Frank. For Frank, you'll get "He was sooooooooooooo scummy," which is true. With me you can at least analyze my wagon for people who gave good reasons (town), people who gave bad reasons (wild), people who gave no reasons (scum), and people who say "he said to vote for him" (scum)

You can do the same with frank, I mean, there was you, singer, and a few others that I definitely want to take a look at, but Frank is definitely my choice for a lynch today

[Xite91]

Ugh, then other people need to stop attacking me for supposed "buddying" before I jump on the grenade, if that's how it actually works.

Don't LYNCH Frank. VIGKILL him. That's pretty much the gist of what I'm trying to say. Frank's scumminess is just as much a distraction as my nexus strategy.

nexus strategy?

[Xite91]

as much as I hate to admit it, i don't think furccolow is mafia either, but again my radar could be wrong.

he seems too much in the forefront to be mafia, mafia would typically lay low, not make them look to obvious on day 1

I would also expect to see a couple of bus votes and quick unvoting between mafia scum, that is usually the norm where I play

course I have learned playing here, I definitely aint in kansas anymore toto

First part, I don't think so, but I could be wrong, so don't criticize me
Second, It's TOO GODDAMN EASY
Third, that's the kind of thing we make sure to look at after the flip
Fourth, making sure you have a chance to change your opinions if it calls for it.

What is that, three scum caught at least?

[Xite91]

@Prozac/Xite: Stupid me, I was thinking Lightning Rod only during the day, not Nexus. Anyways, you're right, you're right, I'm being an idiot in desperation.

The problem with Frank is that his normal play is so scummy that it makes him ridiculously hard to read. Personally I think he acts like that for precisely that reason. I can't shake the gut feeling that he's savvier than people give him credit for.

Or... you're his partner?

[Xite91]

I don't like seeing that. Lynching me, however, is better than lynching someone who is better for the town than I am. A no lynch would be better than lynching me for the town, though, and I know that. I'm sorry you all don't feel the same way. I realize people are going to be like AtE, but I'm not going to erase anything that I've typed so far. I am going to use 2 things to make this post. The player list, and my brain.

a2rudeboy - replaced out
Benmage - Seemed like scum to me, because JDodge is convincing, but JDodge/Benmage argument may have had one blue and one townie. Possibly red, though, when you think someone is a detective, right? Anyone pro-town have thoughts on this? Please don't overanalyze what I'm doing here either, I am really wanting people to believe I'm town, and I don't know what to do other than force myself to make a large post. I saw someone in a game say something like people who are town need to contribute en masse and not let scum slip by under the radar. I agree to that philosophy, but people don't seem to like voting for the people who don't contribute necessarily. I like the people who are out in the open, because I'm out in the open. Sorry to go off on a tangent
Bunnylover - Don't really like to read what they have to say in general, so I'm not going to comment much on this one. I saw people were interested in lynching them, and I would be ok with that, as I have no idea as to anyone's alignment but my own, but it wouldn't really give me personally a lot of information. If they flipped red, you'd bet your ass off I'd analyze the wagon and reference all reactions they had with them in iso.
ConfidAnon - Isn't this the person I asked to contribute by asking the mod to prod them at 25 hours? If it is, it's funny, because I don't remember them really posting anything.
Danakillsu - I'd like to see if he'd actually flip Detective. I doubt he would.
Flameaxe- Thanks for hosting
Flinter - Started posting late or got a new icon. Seemed town in terms of contribution.
Furcolow - pro-town, though I am admittedly scummy
HipHop - I thought he felt like town. I am not the best at reading people.
JDodge - I liked his reaction with dana as being town on scum, but if dana really is a detective, he should check Jdodge.
Kise - Who? lol
Mysterio - I like this player. He is voting me, but I really don't care. I have a strong town read on him, but maybe that means he's mafia because I'm so backwards in my reads sometimes.
nhammen - I would be ok with his lynch.
Orochi - confirmed!
Porochaz - seems like a confused townie, slinging words and not helping the town
Robnnva - Seems like scum to me.
Sebguer - Null read, would be ok with a lynch.
Seth - confirmed!
Shanba - feels like a town player, probably a townie

First, please don't start a D1 no-lynch argument, check out some of my games to see how well that works out. (AKA a lot of noise, and a No-lynch is NEVER good on D1, especially without an open setup)

Next, People I'm going to look at when Frank flips scum;
Flinter
Jdodge
HipHop
Rob
Wraith

***Disclaimer! This is based on gut, do what you will with it***

singersigner - VI
UA - scum
wickedestjr - scum with nhammen and bunnylover possibly

wraith - townie read
xite - vig hit please

xreckonerx - I don't have a scum read on him

I lol'd at bolded
Wraith for obvreasons
Me because, why would a vig hit me?

as much as I hate to admit it, i don't think furccolow is mafia either, but again my radar could be wrong.

he seems too much in the forefront to be mafia, mafia would typically lay low, not make them look to obvious on day 1

I would also expect to see a couple of bus votes and quick unvoting between mafia scum, that is usually the norm where I play

course I have learned playing here, I definitely aint in kansas anymore toto

First part, I don't think so, but I could be wrong, so don't criticize me
Second, It's TOO GODDAMN EASY
Third, that's the kind of thing we make sure to look at after the flip
Fourth, making sure you have a chance to change your opinions if it calls for it.

What is that, three scum caught at least?

the first part, after reading back some more I may even retract my own statement, frank isn't looking too good

This right here felt like Xite trying to steer the town in the wrong direction as mafia. Robnnva feels like a townie to me, but he hasn't posted like a townie should.

WHAAAAAA????????
I feel like I'm steering the town in the wrong direction how? Because I'm not tunneling? At least I'm not throwing spaghetti, as you are.
Wait, Rob's a townie that hasn't posted as he should? Are we giving scum a free pass now?

[Xite91]

a vig would hit you because you're either dumb town or scum
i would not be flipping scum, i would be flipping town
quit stating lies

Oh, I'm dumb town for pointing out the most obvscum player in the game?
Yeah, it's just too easy, right? /sarcasm
I'm not too sure about that second line.
No u.

I think posting a list of who you think is aligned where is seriously one of the worst moves you could possibly do on this site. Seriously, are you just coaching your scum buddies for if/when you get lynched today, so they know who you'd like to focus on after you're gone? Or are you that dumb of a townie that you're giving scum everything to make their strategy with?

You know what, the coaching thing I can see.
Instead of "vig Xite" he means, "scum, kill xite"

Showing your opinions on people is not that bad a thing IMHO, if helps town read the people giving the information, and if they're scum, it gives town a good amount of information, as well. The way he's going about it though, I can definitely see it as terribad scum coaching

[Xite91]

Everything you're doing? It's scummy. There's your advice

[Xite91]

Also he has been taking part in all the popular bandwagons.

While I agree that he could be seen as more than just null, I do not agree with the above quote. Do you mean all the two popular wagons? Both with many legitimate reasons for a vote? And the second one starting after the first claimed cop?
How about some other reasons?

[Xite91]

Dammit EBWOP

Scummy =/= Scum
I felt like I had a good case on dana

Felt? Why the past tense if you're still saying you think he's scum?
multiple scummy things usually = scum

[Xite91]

If there are more, I can see a group of 3 masons (confirmed or unconfirmed, but more than likely all town) and/or 1 town RBer

It is likely that if there is a mason group in this game, it only has two people in it. I don't think I've ever seen a larger mason group before and my last 24 player game I was a mason and had only one partner.

You've never seen a 3 mason group before? O.O
Anyways, more setup spec later in the game.

Sorry xite, could you explain what meta-type ideas you are talking about? As far as I know, we haven't played together.

I didn't think the question was dumb. If the mod hates the cop, and won't use it in his setup (I'm certain I read about someone who wouldn't), we would have one caught scum. If not, nothing would be lost.

It's not exactly meta on you, it's just something that was used against me recently and it was more a joke than anything, since one of those people are playing.

That's not necessarily true. I hate jesters, but I have no problem adding them in a setup. And lets talk about godfathers, eh?

Okay, so I think that we should either decide on a frank or a wraith lynch

Out of the two, wraith is superior.

Why is Furc so scummy except the blatant AtE and insistence that danakillsu is scum and the lynch for today? Because I think AtE is a nulltell and insistence is a towntell to be honest.

(That's directed at anyone, not just Xite.)

Full case on him coming soon to those that won't read the thread

Can someone explain to me why the fuck Wicked & xite are speculating on mason teams?

Did you miss my whole post on mafia theory? And my reasoning for posting said mafia theory? Are you reading the thread????

[Xite91]

EBWOP
By the way, townies should not have to worry about blending into the town because they are town, therefore saying you did things to look more town is always something that sets off sirens in my head.

[Xite91]

Okay, Useful ISO time!!!
All post numbers are ISO numbers

8) Is the 6th person to jump on the wagon, perty terrible reasoning IMO
9) Just read this post and you'll understand
10-15) Attacking Dana hardcore, because the rest of the town has been pushing him, he does too so he blends in, only problem is that he went too far with it
16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...
19) Another good read
21) Already pointed out why this one was scummy... someone even called it "searching the thread" But when it's just staring you in the eye, it's not searching the thread, it's seeing scummy things and calling them out
23) This is like the bajillionth time I've seen him just throw a mafia term out there, usually a scumtrait. (This has a lot to do with how psychics work, they use certain buzzwords, and then people find a way it relates, and then go, OMG you're so amazing, there must be something there)
24) I lol'd so hard. Oh, you're making points against me? Well too bad, lalalalalalala not listening!!!!!
Not even touching 25-33
34) LOL. my case means nothing because of my age. That's a good one. I'm pretty sure a 4 year old would hear what you were saying and say you were the "bad guy" Age has nothing to do with it.
35)

and if i'm your top suspect, we are obviously not reading the same game

That's his next response. I make a case and he doesn't try to dispute it, instead he tries to discredit it, another scum trait
36) Another good read
Again, not even touching 37-40
41) More AtE
Here, I'l even show you

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

you are also close-minded if you think that it is impossible to lynch someone for a fakeclaim, which is obviously a fakeclaim, due to a shitty ass breadcrumb

you make me sick

Oh yeah and there's also that one term, Ad hom was it?
Yeah, that's in there too, which according to him is a great reason to vote, proof later down.
42) I love you Mod
44) MOOOOOOORE AtE. Whatever guys, lynch me, my life is a black abyss.
47) I love how all of his suspects are the ones that attacked him
50)

xite, stop the ad hom right now

vote: xite

And there's your proof
51) Another good read!
52) I can't stop laughing when I see this.
54-57 too ^

[Xite91]

Let's put this another way, shall we? You are a human. You do some things to seem more human sometimes. You wouldn't want people calling you inhuman for your behavior. Just because you do things to seem more like a human like combing your hair or putting on deodorant doesn't mean you are not in fact human.

I don't care what people think about me, because whether or not I act it, I am human.
Also, I like to see people's reactions and find out what kind of people they are, so sometimes I do things against the norm.

How's that for a metaphor?

@Wickid, what does that make me? I FoS'd Dana, but didn't vote him, and I'm on the frank wagon.
There are many who were on both wagons IIRC

[Xite91]

I'm really not reading this thread, no.

Mod, if you want to look for a replacement for me, that'd be nice.

This game is moving too fast with too many walls of text for me to actually keep up.
And I really wanted to play with this playerlist so bad.

Then do it, just ISO who you think is scummy, tell us why and actually try to read, it's slowing down, and after D1 it will go much slower (Especially if we lynch Frank ) So just keep at it and try keeping up

[Xite91]

Let's put this another way, shall we? You are a human. You do some things to seem more human sometimes. You wouldn't want people calling you inhuman for your behavior. Just because you do things to seem more like a human like combing your hair or putting on deodorant doesn't mean you are not in fact human.

and if I was someone trying to blend in, I would tell them I used deodorant that morning (in stead of just talking about the weather like everybody else)

I lol'd. This is an awesome argument, actually

[Xite91]

Okay, Useful ISO time!!!
All post numbers are ISO numbers
...
16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...

Ok, apparently it's been so long that played Mafia that there are new ways of posting that I'm not quite grasping. ISO numbers? This clearly isnt post 16 of the game, nor does it make sense in context of my 16th post

As in, when you read him in ISO (look at the bottom of the page, you can read one person at a time) These are the numbers to his post.

[Xite91]

16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...

Here, have some context

Hun, that was sarcasm. I figured it didn't need sarcasm tags. I was saying you were making valid points, but because they were defending someone else, he was saying it was buddying. It was a whole post of bullshit, his ISO 16 was

[Xite91]

@ xite
So maybe YOU don't do stuff that way, but plenty of people do, and you don't say "that person is not human" just because they're trying to look like other humans. And sometimes it does take effort to look like what you really are, which is really my main point.

It is typically a scum trait to do things just because it looks townie, also it's very easy to breadcrumb before you're under scrutiny, for example, it's Very Tiresome to be arguing this with you (Using your style of BCing, which is terrible, in the first place). Also, it was after you were getting a bunch of votes, which is scummy in itself.

Happy Birthday Orochi!!!

[Xite91]

@ xite
That was not a smart play. You cannot possibly say that breadcrumbing is scummy. It just doesn't make sense. It's null at worst no matter when you do it.
On the topic of "looking townie", what you say destroys the basic rules of scumhunting. It's no wonder it seems like you've had a broken scumdar this whole time. If you think only scum try to look townie, then you think townies don't care how they look. If you think townies don't care how they look, then the townie ones are the scum and the scummy ones are the town. Are you kidding me?

Oh? How have i had a "broken scumdar?"
Are you saying you disagree with my reads? And which ones?
Unless this is just an attempt to discredit me.

When you do things to deliberately look like town, then you're usually scum. Town are usually not too worried about how they look if it means catching scum. AKA I don't mind playing VI if I can get scum caught. And I know of quite a few players that would agree on that. Thing is it's only really new players that do deliberate things to look town as town, and remember how much experience you had?

And breadcrumbing can be scummy and it can be townie and it can be null.
When it's scummy is when you're already getting a lot of attention/votes AND THEN start breadcrumbing, because it looks like a response to the attacks so that you can claim when you get to L-1 or L-2

[Xite91]

First, Frank is also scum
Dana could just be really bad town, but depending on other flips could be scum too.
Wraith is scum.
Jdodge is possible scum.

......

Okay, so my scum list

Frank
Wraith
Bunny

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana
Jdodge
Hiphop

So, yeah

Oh, lemme add one more to that not so sure, but possibly scummy thing
singersigner

Are you going to bring in any new ideas of your own after being gone?

What is that, three scum caught at least?

First, please don't start a D1 no-lynch argument, check out some of my games to see how well that works out. (AKA a lot of noise, and a No-lynch is NEVER good on D1, especially without an open setup)

Next, People I'm going to look at when Frank flips scum;
Flinter
Jdodge
HipHop
Rob
Wraith

***Disclaimer! This is based on gut, do what you will with it***

singersigner - VI
UA - scum
wickedestjr - scum with nhammen and bunnylover possibly

wraith - townie read
xite - vig hit please

xreckonerx - I don't have a scum read on him

I lol'd at bolded
Wraith for obvreasons

So how are they all over the place?

[Xite91]

@Dana: Proven how? Stating your opinion doesn't "prove" anything. The only real way to prove your argument is to cite examples from other games.

Secondly, There's a difference between acting town-like, and deliberately acting town-like. And it's not entirely accurate to say that simply because someone isn't trying to act town that they're automatically acting scummy. You'll find there's actually a large margin between the two

Hey UA? Can you be my ambassador/interpreter? You speak my thoughts so well when I can't find a way to say it

[Xite91]

I dont think you can afford my services

Oh come on it can't be too bad.

[Xite91]

EBWOP, this was supposed to be at the beginning of post 484 lulz

@xite
All you've done is restate your opinion, which I've already proven to be illogical. It's not only new players that do deliberate things to look town as town, because that wouldn't make sense. If you're not trying to look town as town, you're not helping your team, because they will not listen to scummy players when they give their scumreads. Your reads have been all over the place, and I have not agreed with them in general. I believe I can get at least a fair amount of agreement from the other players on the first point.

Considering you're dragging on the conversation and I'm being consistent? I'm trying to restate my opinion and general scumreads so that your feeble mind can understand them.
Second, here is a recap of my scumreads

[Xite91]

@UA
Proven by the fact that this game does have methods for catching scum. xite's ideas go against those methods. And I did not mean to say that in such a scenario the town players would play scummy, I only meant to say that they would always be scummiER than the actual scum, who are trying to look town. It makes any notion of townie and scummy useless.

Wrong, town are townie by nature, and by not being worried about looking town, they usually do a damn good job of looking town. Trying to look town is scummy, because that's what scum do.

I don't know why Frank isn't dead yet! I've been trying to get him lynched for forever...

This could have something to do with it

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

*Sigh* I think I'm in love... waaaaiiiit, I have a policy against self voters.......

[Xite91]

Bring what up??? lol Didn't see what the point of slopoke was in the first place, still don't get it now
And it was two posts after the pic was posted that you're "pointing it out"

[Xite91]

I dont think that's really a breadcrumb
also the pic was posted after he said he spotted one

[Xite91]

xite-It would probably be best if you didn't try to outguess the mod with setup speculation. What exactly are you trying to prove? Why do it day 1? Do you think it is helpful when truly there can be over 1000 different ways a mod can setup all we have is a claimed cop and the knowledge of our individual roles?

Already discussed, reasons already given, and this topic is done for nao plox

[Xite91]

@UA: THe breadccrumb I spotted was Xite's. I don't know why he's claiming at this point, but it's null-tell IMO. He could be scum trying to set up a future believable claim like Dana did, or he could be genuinely town. Either way, I don't think it should affect anyone's reads on him much.

Lulz really? You mean that thing I did to show dana that anyone could breadcrumb anything? At anytime? And the fact that it doesn't mean jack shit about if that's actually what it is? Oh, and the one I pointed out so that he would notice? Or at least made abundantly clear that that was an example, but eh, I guess you're just really slow.
Really not sure what else to say to you right now.

[Xite91]

Okay, catching up some more, I'm losing faith in my defense of Furcolow faster and faster, especially with the scumslip post Wicked pointed out. TBH however, I think it can be safe to believe there's a possibility that there are two scum groups, considering the size of the game, but I suppose the scumminess of that comment comes from the certainty. Also, lynching the claimed cop is STUPID no matter how you look at it. If we're trying to avoid lynching our power roles I think we're better off lynching you, because you've denied my wild speculation that you're a PR playing VI to avoid a nightkill. Even if we don't lynch, he draws a nightkill or at least a roleblock, if there is a scum roleblocker. Better for him to die at night and given a chance than struck down by the town after he's claimed. I'm also doubting myself over Furcolow because of his continued ultra-scummy play, specifically his jumping onto the most popular wagon whenever he sees it. I believe he's on the hiphop wagon now?

I think I was going to say something else but I forgot. Got too caught up in the WIFOM going on in my head about Frank.

Oh, now that he's got a lot of attention, and you're our next choice suspect, with the exception of maybe hip hop?

[Xite91]

However, I'll add that either way I think me voting Frank will end up as a lose-lose for me. I'll immediately get hit by a wall of bussing accusations, and if he flips scum I'll probably be the Day 2 lynch. If I vote for him and he flips town, I'll still probably get lynched Day 2 for suddenly flip-flopping on my stance and joining his very popular wagon. But whatever, I don't really care, because my lynch would save a PR from being mislynched. I still honestly think lynching Frank is a bad idea in the long run, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Vote: Frank

AtE too? Funfunfun
Oh, didn't you have a strategy where you WANT to get lynched?

Preview edit
How does that defend what you're doing AT ALL?

[Xite91]

I apologize for the recent second thread explosion. It is apparent that trying to prove my opinion is useless because I can't get anything out of UA or xite other than a stating of their opinions. Anybody know how long until the day ends? If it's close, don't vote for anyone other than Frank or hiphop, so we can at least lynch someone today. Also, anybody disagree with nhammen's suggestions for my investigation (Wraith, hiphop, and bunny)?

You can't "prove" your opinion. That's the first mistake with this, second, why should we change our opinions to yours? Third, I would agree with bunny, I'm pretty sure wraith is the lynch for tomorrow, so how about hiphop and Jdodge being your other two choices?

[Xite91]

This is where I count votes.

I lol'd

[Xite91]

This is where I count votes.

I lol'd

Don't misquote the mod. I do not approve.

Butbutbut.... you sir are truly evil

[Xite91]

I have been emotionally drained, and I can't catch up on mafia right now, because I've had a very taxing day in real life. I will have to catch up tomorrow.

I am just a townie this game, so better me than a power role, though we already have 1 claimed

You all, if town, should honestly not lynch me, but my play is pretty bad in terms of helping the town. If you don't lynch me, I'll try to change.

Here, have a tissue.
I'm still going to get you lynched today, I'm sorry.

If anyone has any doubt about frank, I suggest you go back and read Xite's posts, the way he breaks down mafia scum tells is amazing and if I had not already voted for frank, I would based on those reads

also, I'm not buying frank's last post, seems too "poor me"

[Xite91]

xite is fucking scum
are you all fucking crazy?
im a townie

amateurs

I lol'd
You know, I'd welcome you getting a wagon against me, because when I flip town, you'll be lynched for sure tomorrow. But then again, I could just get you lynched today, since you're scum and all and that way we don't just lose a day. Sides, if your buddies listen, I'll be gone by tomorrow anyways

@Wraith: I don't have to try anything. I'm not worried about getting lynched, as long as I get my ideas out there. Also, he's said he's a VT, hasn't he?
@Frank: You're adorable. If I wasn't already engaged onsite, I'd totally ask you to marry me

[Xite91]

Also, lets please not start a WIFOM battle, save it for the mafia discussion thread

[Xite91]

If I was scum, why the hell would I have posted walls of text accusing danakillsu? That is not how I play as scum.

I am not going to flip, because people will begin to realize that I am town. I wouldn't even be posting nearly as much as I am this game if I wasn't under such pressure. There are probably scum on my wagon, so we would have a better chance of lynching scum if we used an RNG to randomly pick someone off my wagon than lynching me, because I am not going to be flipping christmas colors

@ preview edit to xite:

I could say the same thing to you, pal. If you REALLY ARE TOWN, you should unvote me, as I REALLY AM TOWN.

First, Stop the self-meta PLOX. It's starting to hurt my head. I don't really use all that much player meta in the first place, and I'm not going to start now. I'm basing my opinions of you on you IN THIS GAME.
Now that that's settled, if you're town PROVE IT. Guess what you haven't done ALL GAME???

The only reason I would even would start to consider you as town is because I recently saw a flip that follows this game pretty well, in which case we were both town, thing is, even if you ARE town (which I HIGHLY doubt you are), there are two amazing reasons to lynch you anyways

1) You would shut the hell up. Sorry if this is insulting, but I'm getting tired of trying to sort through the useless shit in this game and a lot of it is coming from you.
2) The many people that have interacted with you and the people on your wagon WILL be an indicator of their faction. I promise, if you're town, you will not die in vain, but you will die. (2 also works for scum, except the promise part)

Granted, I would hate a lynch on any townie, but it's going to happen eventually, and I don't see it being D1 if we lynch you, Frank

what the fuck do you want me to do to prove to you that i'm not fucking mafia and that i want to win this game through analysis and scumhunting? That's what I want to do. I'm not going to do fucking work, though, if I'm not going to get paid for it.

I really don't think you want me to answer this post, because I'm doing everything I can NOT to be an asshole

[Xite91]

What does WIFOM mean :<.
Also

Unvote, vote Furcolow

Your desperate.
Your starting to use defense like if I die the town loses, I am so townie, Xite is so mafia.
With your lynch Furcolow, if you flip townie, those on your wagon or those who pushed your wagon may have something to worry about.
But by your play style, I highly doubt that.

WIFOM means Wine in Front of me, it's that thing like in the princess bride, where he has the two glasses, and one of them is supposed to have poison in it, which starts the whole, well you're too cowardly to put it in front of you, so it must be in my glass, but then again you knew I would think that, so it could be in front of you, and so on and so forth

[Xite91]

@Rob, totally off topic, but it's Xite, pronounced Zite, it's a peeve of mine to have it any other way
Anyways, at this point I'm just waiting for the ====[ ]
Because hunting will not get any further until that happens

[Xite91]

oops my bad good sir, i'll try and not do that anymore.

Can I just call you X?

Haha, go for it. Hey, who are you voting by the way? I'm making dinner and don't have enough time to go back and check ATM.

[Xite91]

my vote is on frank right now, he is by far the safest vote after outing a PR, since he is only a townie with no powers.

how are you sure he's a townie? And if he is, why are you voting for him?

[Xite91]

Not sure if any of you guys know who Papa Zito is, but he was one of the ones who taught me this strategy and he is a pretty decent mafia player, so i trust what i know and I trust the people who taught me.

Would I rather nail scum, of course but at what cost? run somebody else up to be lynched and pray he is not the doctor? no thanks.

Yes, I know who he is, I played (for a little bit) a game with him in it, I will give him that he seems to know what he's doing, but I can't really say much more than that.

Also

and I am not sure he is a townie, I am not sure any of you guys are townies but that is how you play the game.

tbh, I am not even sure if the cop is actually a cop, but you NEVER lynch a cop claim on day 1.

Uhm.....

my vote is on frank right now, he is by far the safest vote after outing a PR,

since he is only a townie with no powers

.

Seems to me you're pretty sure he's a townie

[Xite91]

@X - that was just worded wrong, I meant he has claimed nilla. I think he is scum or a really horrible mafia player

fair enough

[Xite91]

Not every one, just the majority, which we could have if we got some cooperation

[Xite91]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

QFT

Honestly, first off, I think we should largely ignore Parker. Second, it can be possible to have multiple cops. Third, if Parker is scum, I can see singer being scum and a possible visa versa.

What???
In a game this large, two people being told by the mod that they are cops is by no means impossible. One of us could be insane, but that's not even NECESSARILY true. Horrible idea to claim at this juncture, just horrible.

Especially since it definitely won't make anyone pro-town try to lynch me.

And the most significant thing is that you only tell your "true" reasons for voting me when pressured, which does not add credibility to your claim.

I really liked that bolded part. Tempted to lynch you because of that.

[Xite91]

@Singer - Just the way you're playing. Sounds like, no Parker! you're digging yourself a deeper whole! Shut up! (AKA coaching)
Also, the fact that you gave him that route to fake-claim, and now people are less likely to suspect him for it

[Xite91]

xite I liked your posts up till this page, seems like your reaching

Sorry, just woke up.
No but seriously, I'm just trying to find connections for later in the game. TBQH I doubt that Parker is scum, so those are just empty words for now, but if he does turn up scum at any time, I would say that singer was also scum (which isn't too hard to believe in the first place anyways)

[Xite91]

Why are people less likely to suspect DP for fake-claiming? It's very clear in his meta that it's something he does,

regardless of his alignment.

I don't think the fact that he fake-claims makes him any less suspicious of being scum...it's just that much more frustrating to deal with him clouding our judgment in case he's town. I'm not opposed to a policy lynch of DP if he doesn't start playing more pro-town/contributing.

In any case, let me just put this out there...DavidParker's a bad player. I don't think he's been productive ONCE in the last couple games I've seen him play in. He false claimed at least twice (in both of them, not sure how many other games he's played).

But he was a VT in both of them.

And now he's willing to lynch a claimed cop on D1...ugh, DP, just ugh...

[Xite91]

What's even more interesting is how singersigner got caught

contradicting

misinterpreted.

I never claimed to

know

anything regardless of alignment. That comment was meant to show that "regardless of alignment," DP is detrimental to this town, and EVERYTHING he says needs to be taken with lbs. of salt.

Ugh, DP, I hate you SO MUCH (not really, but in that game sort of way).

Also, way to start contributing, Kise. Nice to know you're still around.

Wow.... read my last post to you, the one with the two quotes? You said he did it as town both times, how else were we supposed to interpret that? Thats not so much us interpreting wrong as it is you slipping. And this whole "I hate you" thing is just making it worse.

Wanting to lynch a claimed Cop is NOT scummy. It's anti-town, but not scummy. I can easily see a new player wanting to lynch a claimed Cop day 1 that they find suspicious. The AtE just reeks of frustration, and is a nulltell. Are there any other reasons for Frank that I'm not seeing? Because I don't see a case on him and do not comprehend why there is a wagon.

go back and read my ISO. I made a case

Agree that a singersigner case is still bunkum. The coaching thing...
...
...
really?
If DP was singersigner's buddy, don't you think he'd read that post and say "oh, wait, maybe I shouldn't claim right now"?

considering that she said he did it as town?

[Xite91]

^^lol
lol
lol
@ Xite
The point is that singer was saying DP was dumb for doing it and then he did it. Do you really think a scumbuddy would do that?

Do you really want to start a WIFOM battle? Cuz I'll do it.

[Xite91]

Not buying the claim, I say we lynch the lying scum.

I had quotes and everything ready, but it all boiled down to that line up there, so I decided not to waste the space.

[Xite91]

Right from the page 3 get-go, Hiphop's not looking that good. Vets, how many times has a townie who has been on for over a year said the phrase 'That does not help my win condition'? Especially regarding something as harmless as a self-vote in the RVS.

It was because he was told to self-vote, which doesn't really help anyone's wincon. I don't see this as a tell in this situation.

I feel completely justified in putting the penultimate vote on.

Vote: Frank

Oh finally thank god

[Xite91]

Well, at least someone hit scum for us.

Vote: Wraith

need to do a reread, but I'm pretty sure this is where my vote goes today

[Xite91]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

nhammen's flip worries the heck out of me, as I got strong town vibes from him, nor can I remember anyone being suspicious of him.

Lol. Now this is a wagon I think I could jump on. Well, who do you think is scum?

[Xite91]

Flinter... you're an idiot. I think dana is scummy, too, but I'm waiting to see what happens. Also there are ways to explain why dana targetted DP. Like maybe, he was being told to? Remember that? Also, it makes sense that scum would try to kill one of them, and dana was the more likely to get doc'd. Think a little guys

[Xite91]

Flinter... you're an idiot.

I think dana is scummy, too, but I'm waiting to see what happens.

Also there are ways to explain why dana targetted DP. Like maybe, he was being told to? Remember that? Also, it makes sense that scum would try to kill one of them, and dana was the more likely to get doc'd. Think a little guys

I voted Bunnylover, not dana, for the reasons given above.

Confirm insult: flinter

also,
bolded. My defense on bunnylover
the rest other than the insult? That was all to everyone, I was trying to point out that dana is STILL not the lynch.
Just letting everyone think on this one for a sec. In order to catch scum, you have to think like scum, so start thinking the way they would think, then you would realize why they did exactly what they did and you would understand that dana is not the lynch for today, tomorrow, maybe, but we have to wait and see what happens tonight

[Xite91]

Xite, what do you think of my attacks on bunny. They are distinct from flinters points, and I think I'm going a bit more in depth. Comments are appreciated.

Honestly, I can see all sorts of things.
Thing is, I think bunny is just newbtown and needs to stop going, hey I'm trying but I suck at this. Yes, the first step to overcoming a problem is admitting you have one, but for god's sake go on to the next step PLEASE.
Also, I can see you being town but a little self-righteous and probably one of those people that pretty much "know" you're right about everything.
I can also see bunny as newbscum, and needs to play the game.
But I can also see you being semi-experienced scum, hence a lot of the "classic tells" you're using.
I can also see you bussing.
In other words, I can see pretty much every scenario you could throw at me and I need more time to think on it.

the only thing I see about nham is he kept voting for hip hop, bunny, and wraith and he doesn't vote for frank once, but he wasn't online I think when the frank bandwgaon formed.

I think the first people we need to look at are the people who avoided the frank bandwagon, in my mind it is those people who have a better chance of being mafia.

I have come to the conclusion that I should for the most part ignore you.
You had a great basis of an argument, but then used it to meta another person? WTF???
Why not go after hip hop, bunny, or wraith? They would make the absolute MOST sense based on what you're saying.

Just want to say I knew DavidParker was lying. At least his gambit worked this time. Lynch me if you will, but if you are I'm not expending any effort to defend myself. I'm tired of getting lynched as town and want to move on.

I haven't liked ConfidAnon's play. So that's where my vote goes.

Vote: ConfidAnon

Weren't you the one that was trying to get lynched as a gambit? Wow, what a switch.
My vote stays

[Xite91]

@X

I don't think mafia would be dumb enough to bus all of their partners, so those names he throw out there are probably not his partners

Oh, but at least one of the could be, because remember? You said that he was avoiding the town wagon, so wouldn't that make at least one of the other two scum?

[Xite91]

On post 768. Had to deal with a break-in so I'm really scatter-brained right now. I'll be back to normal playing tomorrow hopefully.

a)Fence sitting

2)AtE

3)I agree, but I find others to be scummier at this moment

Also, the way you said "how about me" seemed like "oh luwk gaiz i iz scumhuntin"
That's probably part of the reason it was ignored.

I don't see how I was speculating on setup at all. I was leaving all the options completely open. I didn't say there was an SK or other mafia faction, just that if there was one of those, it would fit the facts almost as well as a vig. And I said "presumably" if you didn't notice. Your attacks of me are pretty weird, and I think you should take a pointer or two from singersigner (btw get her name right) who can see that I did exactly what a cop would do N1.

Why was this ignored?

I can respect that you don't want to go after me right now, and really that's not what I'd like you to do. If you want me to vote for wraith, which I am not opposed to, I have to read the case against him, and read him in isolation first, it would be helpful to know what about my case you disagree with, as I do think that bunnylover is fairly scummy.

I am not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you, I just want to know what parts of my arguments against bunnylover you find invalid, and either scrap the case if you are right, or convince you, if I think you're wrong. I think just focusing on one player on day 2 of a large is a pretty piss poor mindset.

Same for this first paragraph.

Also, to whoever keeps quoting without putting a name in the quote tags. Stop that. It's annoying trying to figure out who said it. Stop being so goddam lazy asshole.
K, night guys, I'll finish later

[Xite91]

Wraith sounds like a good lynch for today. His play has been everything other than pro-town, so he's most likely to be scum than anyone else at this point.

Vote: Wraith

@Shanba, do you mind actually making a case for your random vote? How was my reasoning strange? And how did I not contribute?

As for dana, his investigation choice makes perfect sense to me. Bunnylover's post was apparently based on a misunderstanding (he didn't know Parker claimed cop), so I'll give him a pass for now. Although I'm not sure how you managed to miss that.

Hey myst? What happened to that awesome scumhunting I saw before? Why are you staying so far under the radar this game?

So, any reason I still haven't received suggestions for tonight's investigation? And I don't want anyone to give just one suggestion, because scum would know who I was going to pick that way.

Flint gave you some, but honestly, I think you should give us a list (half pro-town to you, half anti-town to you don't say which are which) that you think you should investigate. Then we will nitpick at it

Wicked's deduction that there is a SK doesn't sit well with me.

Explain

To me it is the only thing that makes sense. Even i thought he was more likely town then scum, and i should have been the one that was bias being he was voting for me. An Sk is the only logical truth to that. So what is wrong with his deduction?

Curious to note, that shanba and poro have switched places. I don't understand how shanba could be so sure yesterday i was scum, yet today he switches without a word.

many cops I have seen ask for suggestions.

Then many cops you have seen are stupid. How does "suggestions" help the town in anyway whatsoever? I will let you take one guess how scum get helped by it. Look at yesterday, wasn't there someone that said doc protect dana instead of Dp? Guess which claimed cop scum are going to kill? Use your head.

I'm not sure which would be worse- the usually terrible plan of directing the cop, or trusting your reads.

I don't think wraith is the lynch today. i have someone in mind, but it is too late for me to gather all the info, so I will have this case tomorrow.

There doesn't HAVE to be an SK. There doesn't not have to either. End of discussion. Next topic. Kthnx
I had a good idea you're scum yesterday. I attacked you for it. I still feel you're scum, but not the lynch for today. What do you say about that?
The "suggestions" help plenty, they show a bit of everyone's thoughts. But I do feel it better that he do it the way I said, that way there's less dilution of the thread.
First, you'd better say who it is. Then you'd better give a case. Then you'd better tell us why it's too late.

Side note...what the heck does IGMEOY mean? I've seen it several times here, and it's not on the wiki, so I'm forced to play my naive hand once again...

I've got my eye on you. It's pretty much an FoS but "less accusatory" He pulled a little WIFOM trick based on his "gambit" vote on himself (while he was already getting votes). This is just another reason he's scummy.

Sorry to hear about a break in X, hope all is ok

@mod, can we get a vote count ?

@everyone else, this weekend and week have been crazy, haven't had much CPU time between school and kids sports

I promise I'll get caught up today or tomorrow

can someone just give me the reason so many people going after wraith? I feel I have missed something

Meh, I'll be fine. Nothing important stolen and no one hurt (we anticipated it, so we even caught the guy)

Isn't this like, the third time you've asked for a vote count?

Fair enough

Same as above

Wow, it's not hard, just ISO the guy.

I am a male and don't forget it. A gun as an avatar and "Male" under my gender should clear this up, but....
I definitely think more people should be voting for Wraith. I don't see how anyone could not see him as at least a little scummy. And
@mod
My only go-to guy for replacements is ReaperCharlie, who I heard is taking a hiatus.

Hey, don't even start with the whole "guns are masculine" thing. I should lynch you just for that
I don't like this second line. Fluff much?

[Xite91]

@Hip-hop - Post a case now? (I don't remember your suspect, but I'll go back and check later) Oh, by the way, your bussing techs are terrible and you're the next person I'm coming after
@Rob - Scratch what I said before, you are, then hip-hop
@Mysty- Fair enough
@CA - You're playing totally different than how I'm used to you playing. I have to meta another player in another game, but when I finish I'm checkin you out next

[Xite91]

@Robb - One look at your ISO should tell you why I suspect you

I don't think Wraith is scum. I don't agree that the shift on position on Frank is particularly scummy - if you read my posts you'll notice a similar thing happening with my read on dana (though in the opposite direction). More to the point, though, that kind of repositioning requires a degree of bravery, and hence is more likely to come through conviction of belief than desire to jump on a lynchwagon.

The rest of the Wraith case is not overly convincing.

Hiphop still needs to up his contribution. I am in horror of suddenly realising it's day 4 and we still have nothing we can use to determine his alignment. I also think he's still scummy, but

Vote: Porochaz

because I want to explore a different avenue instead.

That first paragraph - I did not notice it to the degree that Wraith did it. This was practically what he did
"Hey guys, Frank is town"
"Hey guys, shut up and listen to me, frank is town"
"Okay, lynch me instead of frank" (this is the one that made me suspect him most)
"Whatever, Vote: Frank"
"Frank is still town"

Do you even read my posts? Im pretty sure I had a good case on him

Wha? Day 4? Are you playing the same game as us?
You still think hip-hops scummy, but lets explore something else just cuz? WTF??

ConfidAnon

1) I don't like his 228. It's pretty much fence-sitting against dana and Furcolow and tunneling against me. He makes me out as scum based almost entirely on word choice.

2) Allow me to repeat that I was attacked my multiple people for "blatant bandwagoning" on dana and "parroting other peoples' cases." Let's look at ConfidAnon's 236:

3) The above was a response to an FoS by wickedestjr, who seems to be the only one calling out the scum in this game. I clearly stated my reasons, this is CA blatantly stating that he parroting. Yet, no objections from Porochaz or Xite? How "strange"...

4) I'll point out nhammen's 318. Through half that post he made a WoT case against me and agrees with ConfidAnon. Scumteam setting up a mislynch bandwagon.

5) In CA's 389 he first points out that he doesn't think Furc is scum, yet then outlines Furc's scummy actions, notably the AtE and Furc's constant pressure on a claimed cop. Smells of setting up bandwagon justification. The rest of his post is dedicated to attacking me, and he attacks me based on "fence-sitting." I was committing to my reads at first based on recklessness and lack of reading, but doing the ISOs gave me a better idea of those people. He attacks me for not believing the claim. Until someone is confirmed there is no reason NOT to doubt the claim. Dana's play was terrible before and after the claim and it made me doubt it. It's one of the flimsier claims I've seen in my time here. Lastly, he attacks me based on my opinion of Furcolow's meta. Furcolow is naturally an extremely scummy player and almost always turns out to be VI. So why should I think he's scum if I'm pretty confident he's a VI?

6) Also, I would like to pose a question to dana I don't has been asked or asnwered yet:

Dana, what was your investigation result last night?

7) During Day 2 he has stated that my "blatant OMGUS" because I don't like CA's play is for terrible reasons and makes me scum. Let's again mention CA's initial wagon vote on dana for "other people stated my reasons" reasons.

8) As for my vote on Frank, I stated my reasons, and I stated why that would probably get my lynch. That's what I get for trying to defend the idiot that digs his own grave. CA is just pushing a wagon on an easy target.

9) I'm going to look at Mysterio, Xite, and nhammen next, with Prozac added in if I'm not too tired.

1) How does one fence-sit and tunnel at the same time? Especially at a different player than the two he's fence-sitting on?
2) There's a difference between voting because you agree with a case and voting just cuz.
3) First, I'm going to take a look at wicked when you flip scum. Second, if you're going to attack someone, then attack them. I would love to see a case from you against two of the more (according to other players IIRC) "pro-town players" It would make my day
4) I love how you call it them setting up a mislynch, first considering that none of us know that... yet. Also, considering that you have been TRYING to get yourself lynched
5) I've seen much "flimsier" cases.
6) Thank you for confirming that you don't read the game except ISOs. That's a good one to know. Oh, and that's a typical scumtrait. Townies scrutinize everything.
7) Strawman much? How does point A connect to point Z there?
8) Lulz AtE
9) Waiting on and actual case on me and prozac

10) Scumbuddies in agreement. In the same post he starts setting up the mislynch wagon on me by accusing me of "overdefensiveness" for stating my opinion on Hiphop's random wagon. I was in no way defending myself against any accusations my hiphop, I was stating that I believed hiphop's wagon was random. Nhammen was fishing for reasons to mislynch me.

11) nhammen unvotes dana because he has "plenty of pressure." Yet here:

CA attacks me for doing the same minus the unvote of dana. Where's the same accusation against nhammen, CA? Oh wait, he's your scum partner, that's why.

12) In nhammen's post 5 he states that dana and I are his top two scumreads. The most he had posted against me was a single sentence about how I was "overdefensive" against a randomwagon I knew was random. Obviously stating this to support a future mislynch with CA and Mysterio.

13)

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

14) In the same post nhammen completely agrees with CA's attacks against me.

Also, I'd like to know the reason for nhammen's vote on me. To me it seems like a randomvote on page 12.

Ummm... when unvoted Bunny and went back to dana, I said that it was between dana and you. I gave my reasons earlier. Not random in the slightest.

10) Of course. They agree so they must be scumbuddies
11) Again, that whole point A to point Z thing. You did things DIFFERENTLY therefore, people act differently to what you do. It's the wording, it's the way of the attacks. Read a bit more into things plox
12) Way to point that out. When scum do that, there's usually at least 1 scum in their "reads" it's an early bussing tech, and it's also in case they die, it "clears" their buddy. So, when you flip scum, I'm more inclined to believe dana-town.
13) IIRC that's sheeping, not plain wagoning, AKA he had "reasons"
14) Whaaaaa??

Spoiler:

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????

Xite is very, very town at the moment, and the only scumpoints I can bring against him are his insistence that I am scum no matter what I do. He insisted I was scum when I defended Frank (who flipped town, mind you), insisted I was scum when I brought up the possibility of lynching myself, and insisted I was scum when I reluctantly voted Frank and told everyone he would probably flip town anyway (and I was right, mind you). Beyond that, the only reason I think the town should suspect him is if he lives to the endgame. A player that townie never lasts unless he is protected.

Okay, so I'm scum because I'm pointing out obvscum behavior?
I responded to the rest already

Confirm confirmed super-confirm vote: Wraith

Side note: Just got home from work, slightly silly so I apologize

[Xite91]

1) @Wraith...I'll agree with Shanba about really liking your latest posts. I'm inclined to believe you are pro-town for this, and think that you make a good point about CA and nhammen being a scum pair...but we'll see.

2) It's also interesting the point you make about CA getting on your case about parroting, when he very clearly did the same thing. Xite had also made a point to point out that I was parroting, too...then why would they "overlook" CA...

3) I don't agree with your assessment of Xite being "very, very town at the moment." Why don't you think he'll continue being pro-town? Also, I don't really think his "tunneling" or overly confident 'scum-hunting' his very pro-town. I've seen people use the excuse "well that's just how I play," and while it might be, it still doesn't do us any good to not look at others. It's honestly giving me a Fate vibe.

4) I think there is some sort of bus going on here, whether it's Wraith/Mysterio, or Xite/Wraith, Flinter/Mysterio, I don't know. But looking back, I think Mysterio's vote is opportunistic on Wraith, and now Wraith is fighting back in all his glory (I can't tell if that makes him scummy or not). Then he proclaims he's confident with his vote on Wraith...I'm thinking he proclaimed this thinking no one would go back and look at his reasoning, since everyone's posted more legitimate reasons than he did.

5) VOTE: Mysterio

1) Scum can do this too, and considering it came AFTER suspicion on him, I think he is VERRRRRY scummy for it
2) He wasn't parroting, he was sheeping. There is a difference, and if he kept doing it I would suspect him for it, but one or two times is a null-tell for what should be obvious reasoning. Parroting is taking someone else's case, rewording it, and then spitting it back out and calling it yours. That's scummy automatically.
3) Ooh, are you gonna make a case against me? PWEEEEEEAAAAASE?
4) Fluffyfluffyflufffluff, oh wait, PARROTING lulz
5) And what was that who said about opportunism?

[Xite91]

@Mod: Sawwie

1) Yes, but you said it made him look protown
2) It's when I go I agree, but don't make their own case, it's a null tell, because town are just as likely to do it with a convincing case.
3) Awww
4) But hey, that was an actual point against you
5) Nope, no screw up in grammar. That's exactly how I meant to say it. Also, the myst wagon is forming, and you jump on it just in time to slide by.

[Xite91]

@Robb - One look at your ISO should tell you why I suspect you

way to talk without actually saying anything.

I make a valid reason why I suspect wraith and than you fos me, sounds like a load of crap to me

*sigh*
Specifically ISO #'s 1, 2, 4&6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 19 (i love that "frank has even been scummy" part), 24, 25 (wtf??), 28, 30, 34, just want to make a quick point on 37 - one game =/= meta EVER, 38 (seeing a pattern to his wagoning), 41, 45, remember my point on 37? and, 46.

There ya go.

I don't play like everyone else, I don't go THIS PERSON HAS A SLIGHT SUSPICION OF BEEN SCUM SO MY VOTE GO ON HIM."
When I vote, its because I am more then sure that the person I am voting for is mafia, or someone who is harmful for the townie.

going back over reading some things and this stood out at me, than I went and looked at some of bunny's other games, and she/he sure does vote alot in the Super Smash Brothers games, and the reasons given for those votes don't match with this statement. And reading some her other posts it seems like she is trying to buddy up to the town a little bit

Has bunny flipped? (didn't check the game) and what did he flip?

I'm not asking you to investigate because you're all probably going to lynch. But if you by chance don't lynch me, then by all means, yes investigate me. I'm just saying that wicked is the only sane townie in the game right now and

you shouldn't go after him until you find my alignment

. Which is town.

If Wraith flips scum, wicked is probtown. This is too obvious buddying for them to be scum partners.
bolded. Huh?

Xite: Let me put it this way. Scum in that situation has nothing to gain from switching over to frank. Frank is the only viable wagon, and it he's almost certainly going to be lynched regardless of what you do. On the other hand, you have quite a lot to lose - for one, someone is likely to pick up on the reversal in your position and two you lose the kudos that you had been garnering for protecting a townie. It's far better to have Frank lynched without you being on the wagon if possible - and at that point in time it certainly was possible that Frank got lynched without wassisname being on the wagon.

And you haven't made a case against him xite: I even reread your posts just now to check. You make a lot of sarky comments, call him scum a lot, even say "X post has a lot of classic scumtells" quite early on. The only person I really feel has added anything of worth against Wraith is ConfidAnon (who on balance I don't think is scum).

Xite, you also need to work on your reading comprehension. I wasn't saying we were day 4. Please try reading that sentence again.

UA, who are your top suspects? Same question to hiphop when he gets back

Let me put it this way, scum do not follow a "set of rules" therefore, they could be anywhere on or off that wagon. Hell, they could be on the other side of the earth. There's this thing called WIFOM, and it will point that out clearly. Scum have nothing to lose switching to frank either.

Oh, have I not? Oh, i guess all I've done is throw points at him the whole time huh? Just never put them all together in one post as a "case"
Well if it's better for you I will do a consolidation post when I have time (probably not till tonight or tomorrow)

Haha, I have to work on my reading comp? Funny because the way you wrote it, it could easily have been taken that way. But now reading it again, I understand what you meant.

To go out into the realm of wild speculation, consider this:

ConfidAnon is town. Nhammen was buddying CA. Xite is scum and is buddying up to CA.

It's a stretch and not my top theory, but it's a possibility.

Hey guys, if you listen to me and lynch CA and he flips town, lynch Xite too, because he has to be obvscum at that point. Wha?

[Xite91]

Also, I'd like people to take my scumhunting seriously instead of saying "Oh his smart posts are instantly nullified because he's obvscum."

Wait, you had smart posts?
Also, I RESPONDED to your posts, and told you why they were wrong. I'm not too sure what yoj mean by just disregarding them.

[Xite91]

@Mod - is mod confirmed info in an ongoing game allowed to be mentioned?

[Xite91]

Wraith would never have shot DP. His read of DP is so accurate in 635, he is so convinced if there is a cop, that it is dana, that I don't see a scumteam with wraith in it killing DP. Bunny follows wraith. I think I'll leave Bunny on my "Neutral" list.

This totally gave me an odd idea. A Wraith/Dana scumteam. Dana claims cop, DP claims cop, the doc will probably target one of them. Wraith "urged" the doc to protect Dana so that, in case DP was actually a cop, they could hit DP no problem.
Just a thought

seen earlier and more recent posts, there is absolutely no way I'm going to support a wraith lynch. He plays like a newby town that gets wagonned.

Further, his bandwagon is too obviously a continuation of yesterday

. Scum will have talked about their possible mislynch targets, and without doubt Wraith was top of the list. Now they only have to finish it and make sure they aren't too scummy for joining the wagon (or staying off it)

Uhhh... really? OR he's just that goddamn scummy?

1) No, you don't get it......in a way, "bullied".

2) So how does this make his actions there a towntell? Well, something is a scumtell if mafia are more likely to do it than town - or to put it another way, if a player is more likely to perform that action when they're scum than when they're town. Looking at the motivations, I deduce that he's not likely to do that as scum, but is likely to do that as town - hence a towntell.

3) And you haven't made a case. Let's look at all you've posted wrt to Wraith (to keep this post which is turning into an epically long one short, I'm stripping them of context. You can find the context by searching out each phrase in xite's Iso and then clicking the little white post token at the beginning of each post, which will take you to the relevant place in the thread)

1) Okay, WIFOM time. Scum WOULD easily make a jump like that so that they could say, "why would I do that?" or so others would say it for them. Also, remember that Wraith is TRYING to get a wagon on him so he can go, "Everyone on my wagon is scum lynchlynchlynch" Which makes him more scummy to me.
2) Really? cuz according to his actions and "motivations", [rant]which I'm missing how you're finding out what his "motivations" are without knowing his alignment, or do you?[/rant] anyways, I see scummyscum on the road to lynchville.
3) already said I didn't, and I'm going to, but I don't have a huge amount of time right now and too many games (AAHHHH) So you'll have to wait till either later or tomorrow like I said earlier.

Also, I've made a lot of points against him, which were mostly those "snarky comments"
I don't really care enough to show you each and every one, but I have done it.

Not responding to the rest right now, partially for times sake and partially because most of your post is bullshit.

Add another to my "sane townspeople list." The count is at two.

Anyways, I've pointed out who I think is scum. Lynch me plaese before I make even more of a fool out of myself.

Or, hows about

Kill: Wraith

Got tired of waiting to lynch the obvscum

@Everyone, but mostly Shanba

Did no one else see 869? That's him practically spelling out that he's saying 'lynch me' so he won't be lynched. Seriously! I'm agog that no one else has commented on that.

Thought I pointed this post out, but eh maybe not. I agree completely.

@UA: Don't worry, I only add people when they tear apart the wagon against for precisely the right reasons. At the moment 883 is the smartest damn post in this game.

And no, dana, I'm not going to claim. The town can lynch if they want, but they'll have to do it without knowing what I am until it's too late.

Sokay, we're going to find out what you are soon enough, though I have an EXTREMELY good feeling that text will not be in green.

Okay, so when I come back, I need to make a case on robbie.

[Xite91]

Xite is a(likely town) idiot. If that was a daykill that ends the day, doubly so. You couldn't think of a better use for a day kill then right there?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't end the day.
Also, I feel like this wagon isn't going to get to much further underway, and I just want to see a scumflip, which I believe I'll see from wraith.

[Xite91]

Wraith would never have shot DP. His read of DP is so accurate in 635, he is so convinced if there is a cop, that it is dana, that I don't see a scumteam with wraith in it killing DP. Bunny follows wraith. I think I'll leave Bunny on my "Neutral" list.

This totally gave me an odd idea. A Wraith/Dana scumteam. Dana claims cop, DP claims cop, the doc will probably target one of them. Wraith "urged" the doc to protect Dana so that, in case DP was actually a cop, they could hit DP no problem.
Just a thought


Okay, so when I come back, I need to make a case on robbie.

1. the first part, your odd idea, was already posted by me, go check post 830 I believe it was. Glad you come up with an original idea after somebody else already said it

2. you will be wasting your time making a case on me, unless you really are scum.

1) Didn't see it (or more than likely forgot about it), can you link or quote it?
2) Oh will I? Trying to pull a wraith?

Daykill looks fake unless it happens at the end f the day with the lynch....which seems unlikely .... otherwise flame would've already put it threw.

Why's it unlikely?

Ugh, my reads on this game are weak because of my own lack of activity, but Wraith seems like a no brainer lynch at this point, which makes things a bit easier. Once I have more free time, I'll make a full case on some of my other scum reads.

More inclined to believe mystie is scum.

If its real it was a total waste. Wraith has done this before as town

Prozac too.

[Xite91]

Daykill looks fake unless it happens at the end f the day with the lynch....which seems unlikely .... otherwise flame would've already put it threw.

Why's it unlikely?

I don't think I've ever seen it work like that.

I have

[Xite91]

I believe, it would be a stupid thing to lie about...but now I'm intrigued...What game was this?

I don't remember the precise game (it was a verrrry long time ago ), but why does it matter? Especially if there's not point in lying about it. And, no the votecount would not change because it happens at the end of the day.

Ugh, my reads on this game are weak because of my own lack of activity, but Wraith seems like a no brainer lynch at this point, which makes things a bit easier. Once I have more free time, I'll make a full case on some of my other scum reads.

Why hasn't this post gotten any attention? This is scumtastic.

Go back and read my post 290

[Xite91]

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

It's one shot
I say Kill: XXXX
It doesn't happen until a lynch occurs, and then both of them die.
That's all it does.

Oh shit.
Just remembered that I should probably do this

Unvote, vote: robbie

won't be needing that vote on wraith anymore

[Xite91]

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Uhm.... everyone in the game "might be town" first off. This screams that you're trying to look townie as scum.

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

It's one shot
I say Kill: XXXX
It doesn't happen until a lynch occurs, and then both of them die.
That's all it does.

This doesn't fit your attitude/actions between the "kill" and the VC. Reading those 4 or 5 posts, it really looks as though you're still in the process of figuring out just how your daykill works. The fact that you waited until after the VC to unvote is particularly suspect.

I waited until after the VC because that was when I remembered that I hadn't switched my vote? But I'm done with the charade, if was actually faked. For the record, though, other than me having a DK I didn't lie about anything I said about DK's (I have seen things like that )
It was a simple gambit, in order to get a few things running.
1) I wanted more of a reaction from Wraith, but got almost no reaction. Trying to figure out what to make of that...
2) I was starting to realize how much focus Wraith was getting, but how a lot of other people were slipping under the radar, so I wanted to see some reactions from a few players. I'm going to go back and make a list of who I think are scum based on my "kill," but I can tell you that two of those people WILL be @.@ and Mystie.
3) I was hoping people would attack me for it, for more reactions, but there were few of these.

Thats the worst part though, is I can't wrap my head around what he's done if he's lying. After spending the entire day saying "obvscum, he needs to be lynched." He does something that makes Wraith practically unlynchable for today, either because he's telling the truth and lynching him is as wasteful as a No-Lynch, or he's lying and we won't know until Wraith doesn't die.

I don't think "He's Town faking a daykill" is a possibility. He's either telling the truth, or Scum. As Town, there's absolutely no reason for him to take all the pressure off of his top suspect. As Scum, there's a couple of reasons, but they all assume they're buddies together.

First, I was planning on telling everyone I lied after a good amount of posts, which would still make Wraith lynchable today.
Second, I wasn't trying to get all the pressure off my top suspect, I was trying to find more suspects.

If he was town faking a daykill, he would be doing it to try to keep Wraith alive. And if he wanted Wraith alive, he wouldn't have put his vote there for so long. So

unvote vote: Mysterio

I kind of like the case on him, and it's a good place to rest my vote while I try to figure out who besides Wraith is scummy.

Dana is looking more and more scummy every post, I still want to say that him and Wraith are scumbuddies, but I have to re-analyze wraith first.

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Agreed, wasting a day kill on day 2 based on a hunch is risky

if he flipps town, just going to be bad news for Xite.

unvote

Robbie is still scum too.

My vote stays.

[Xite91]

I am super sorry I misjudged you Xite, I was going through this game thinking you actually knew your shit and how to play, but clearly I was wrong, cause I am not scum this game so you need to just backup and find somebody else to run up the tree.

I have half the mind to return the favor but I don't OMGUS vote, even if the person deserves it, and this case you do deserve it.

Wow, and you say you're not scum? I lol'd
Anyways, I do know my shit and how to play, way to try to discredit me... all because I'm making a case on you you're going to resort to insulting me? Sad.

You aren't OMGUS voting, but there's still OMGUS all over that post.

@Xite

whats the game with the daykill like this you've seen before.

Read my last post and find out why it's not relevant. And like I said, it was a long time ago and I don't care to go find it.
And btw, if you HAVE read my post, comment on something a little more important plox.

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Uhm.... everyone in the game "might be town" first off. This screams that you're trying to look townie as scum.

Please learn2read, instead of attacking anyone without thinking. Clearly the point of my post is that you should have waited later than day 2. Day 2, your reads are not solid, you don't have a very good idea of who is town and who is scum. Something like an extra lynch is so valuable, and you threw it away on an early game read. Obviously everyone "might be town." Obviously that wasn't my point. Learn to not be dumb.

Have you read my last post? It's a good read, full of love and betrayal, war and hate ect.
Anyways, I tend to stick with my early game reads throughout the game.

Prozac - Read the rest of the thread?

[Xite91]

I am super sorry I misjudged you Xite, I was going through this game thinking you actually knew your shit and how to play, but clearly I was wrong, cause I am not scum this game so you need to just backup and find somebody else to run up the tree.

I have half the mind to return the favor but I don't OMGUS vote, even if the person deserves it, and this case you do deserve it.

Wow, and you say you're not scum? I lol'd
Anyways, I do know my shit and how to play, way to try to discredit me... all because I'm making a case on you you're going to resort to insulting me? Sad.

You aren't OMGUS voting, but there's still OMGUS all over that post.

1st you say I am scum when you don't even post anything of value to show I am scum.
2nd yeah i am allowed to defend myself, especially against somebody who clearly has a hard time determining who is and isn't scum(you were so sure frank was scum, clearly you were wrong) You are so sure Wraith is scum you use your day kill on him but you don't even know he is scum.

you are playing like a loose cannon and if you are town, you are not doing the rest of us any good. go back and scumhunt some more and find somebody who doesn't have Robb or NVA in their name cause like I said you are barking up the wrong fucking tree

1) I am working on it, but did you forget that I said that I had things to do and like 5 cases to make in all my different games? Also, I have been making points against you all along the way. I will rehash them when I make the case, but that will be LATER
2) But you're not defending yourself, you're going "Oh my god I hate you, but I won't vote you because that's OMGUS and OMGUS is scummy!!!"
Also, so I was sure frank was scum. Big deal? We move on, also, around half the players came to the same conclusion, or he wouldn't have been lynched.
Nothing in this game is ever certain until the mod say's it is. Remember that one, young padiwan. Wraith is probscum, first of all, so if I DID have a DK I would use it on him for sure

if no one was going to lynch him

. Again, do you read massposts? Or are they too much for your poor brain to comprehend? Also, do you know he's scum? Do you know he's not? Is he acting like scum? Yes? Then we lynch him. End of story.

I'm sorry, I'm what? Read your past posts, mister desperado.

Robb is an edit button coming up for you?

Have you modded games before? Sometimes that happens when you have editing powers for other games IIRC.

........Whats your take on lynch all liars, Xite?

I'm partial to that one. It depends greatly on the lie. Multiple times I've claimed vig or doc or cop as a bulletproof townie in order to get the NK on myself. I don't see how that is a bad lie unless it outs REAL docs, cops, or vigs (but usually they wait to CC anyways, so it's no big deal)

Xite, I'm curious. How am I scummy from my reaction to your charade? My reaction was exactly the opposite of what you said you were looking for. You said you expected to get attacked. I said that I didnt know what to think, said you were likely (stupid) town, said I like wraiths reactions, and moved on to different people. What there is scummy?

No, that was one of the things I was looking for, but I was looking for reactions in general, and yours seemed pretty scummy. But I will have a post up on my reads from this, my reads before, and my cases on my top suspects. (including you, robbie, don't get your panties in a bunch)

[Xite91]

EBWOP
[quote=ME!"]But I will have a post up on my reads from this, my reads before, and my cases on my top suspects sometime tonight or tomorrow[/quote]
k fixed.

[Xite91]

So one scum reaction was attacking you and the other was not attacking you? Are you even listening to what you're saying?

I await the full case with baited breath, bubsie.

No, I am reading posts, I was hoping to draw attacks on me so that I could see what the attacks consisted of and who the obvwagoners were. But I was also just trying to see reactions, of which yours did stick out to me as scummy.

My opinion on Xite:

His personality is one of an extremely paranoid townie who also has a gun. But a townie. (No I'm not speculating his role)

lolwraith.
how about some non-fluff?

1) Bravo, Xite. Well done indeed. While a funny play, you've managed to COMPLETELY derail the very wagon you've been pushing all day. This includes the fact that you yourself have unvoted said wagon and not revoted. Do you honestly believe Wraith's reaction is so bloody protown that it absolves him?

2) Porochaz, you claim Wraith's acted like this as town? Links or it didn't happen.

Wicked, I just wanted to argue the point. You seemed rather certain of something that should not be a definite.

Robbn's 945 grants major scumpoints.

3) All three of the wagons- Wraith, Robbn, and Mysterio- are decent ones. However, Wraith has done absolutely nothing protown other than MAYBE those two posts a few pages back all of the days, and has done significant work to detract from the town's effectiveness. Robbn is a poor player regardless of alignment, and that pings scumdars. Mysterio, though a follower, has at least ATTEMPTED to contribute to the town much more than Wraith.

1) You're right, wraith is still really scummy, but I also believe robbie is scum, too.
Wraith should still be the lynch of the day though, so

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

2) Lol
3) Refer to your point 2 for robbie, agree with wraith, and I've seen a pretty different playstyle from mystie, but eh.

[Xite91]

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

It was things like this, it was really only scummy because it seems like a cry for town points, but I'm gonna have to ISO you as well... damn, these cases are gonna take forever.

I don't like robbs last post, but I do like some pressure on mysterio.

unvote, vote mysterio

And this post... covering the bases to get on whichever wagon takes off?

[Xite91]

Don't you think townies should try to avoid being lynched? Shouldn't they actively try to be pro town? Can you please explain to me the difference between "crying out for townie points" and "playing in a manner that is pro-town."

Furthermore, I had an in depth analysis of your post, and you think I'm scum based off of a knee jerk "oh wow, why did you just do something that stupid" post I made? It's not like I ignored the substance of the game to make that post.

In a large game, is it not normal for me to have a couple targets I think might be scum, and be willing to pressure anyone else if they end up looking scummy?

What is your problem with that stance?

1) You weren't really under suspicion, and you weren't defending yourself, you were just pointing out something that, when you said it, looked pro-town for what seemed like nothing else but to look town.
2) That last part had nothing to do with it. Again, read 1
3) That's not a problem, I do it too. but you said you "weren't liking robbs posts" but then said that you felt you should pressure mystie (two people that are under suspicion right now) No reason, no analysis, just ohai guys, I'm gonna vote now, but make sure that I can change my vote it the other wagon is the one that takes off.
4) read 3

It was things like this, it was really only scummy because it seems like a cry for town points, but I'm gonna have to ISO you as well... damn, these cases are gonna take forever.

Are you really so stupid that you can't commit to one lynch for the day? Yes, there are more than one scum, but hello, we can't lynch them all at once. Why don't you concentrate on lynching one scum at a time, unless you're only pretending to care about grouping them all together.

All this speculation about scum teams is really making my head hurt. I wish people would stop posting as if everyone's reactions to everyone else is indicative to their alignment with one another. It rarely works that way because it all comes down to WIFOM. "Well if I were scum, why would I react this way to this person, etc."

@Xite...I would really just ask you to come up with a case that we can agree on today, or just stop pretending you can call out all the "scummy" actions of everyone else who even remotely disagrees with you. Also, I no longer think you know what you're doing as much as I did before.

That is all.
(fyi, my boyfriend edited this for me, sorry for drunk posting/reading through posts, I'll be in a much better mood tomorrow, just didn't want to forget how stupid that sounded, even though I'm not as sound of mind, and if he even thinks of counter-arguing my statement using my soundness against me...wudda bitch)

first, I said that, not wraith I think. Give credit where credit is due

I can commit to one lynch for the day, but that doesn't mean I can't put my cases out there. What if I get nk'd and I had a list of who I thought were scum and nailed it but never put it out there? Tunneling is not your friend, so please stop thinking it is.

It's not just people who disagree with me, in fact, the people that disagree with me and have a REASON for it actually look more townie to me. I'm looking at posts and reactions, that is all.

Also, no, I'm not going to attack your posts because you're not of sound mind, but I am going to advise you to not even read mafia when you're drunk, trust me, it does not turn out well (you forget all your perfect cases on people and the connections you made to them till the game is over )

@Xite. Your idea about the Dana-scum theory is nice. He would expect david to investigate him, etc. He would know he himself was fake, and that's why scum wouldn't target dana. Good one

About Xite. You just became more protown (although the role is possible as scum. However, in a game where only the kill on DP remotely makes sense as vig, I doubt it). Scum would never fake this.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but you really ought to work on thinking things out before you post, go ahead and read my posts again and maybe you'll understand better.

hey, you just became scummier. Townies read massposts almost every time, no matter how long they are.

First, I'm going to take a look at wicked when you (Wraith) flip scum.

If Wraith flips scum, wicked is probtown. This is too obvious buddying for them to be scum partners.

??? Explain this contradiction.

How far between were they? Did wraith post before that? Did you?
Probably what happened was that I saw the buddying wraith was doing and how you were defending and I thought you were a scumteam, but then I saw how much he was pushing his buddying with you, and I decided that he was just trying to get a mislynch for tomorrow.

Benmage, Mysterio, and hiphop were the only three players that were on all three bandwagons and none of them were the early votes on the bandwagons so they all look opportunistic. Gorrad, Robbnva, and singersigner also look a bit bad. Xite, danakillsu, and Porochaz look a bit better, and ConfidAnon looks much better: He was the second on the Wraith bandwagon and also had the guts to put danakillsu at L-2. I'm going to read Benmage, hiphop, Mysterio, Gorrad, singersigner, and Robbnva in isolation.

Hey singer, gonna attack wicked too?
I mean, he's making way more than one case.

Robbn is a poor player regardless of alignment, and that pings scumdars.

As much as I hate that you said this, sadly this is true about me

and @xite, you were right my post really wasn't about defending myself per-se cause you haven't provided anything of value against me.

I think it is funny that I use my own experiences in games and turn them into reasons why I think that person is scummy, yet that looks scummy. That doesn't make sense.

my reason for voting mysterio is a valid one. when mafia is pretending to be town, IN MY EXPERIENCES, they have used words like "seems" or "hope" and things like that. Never posting any actualy reasons as to why somebody is scummy, but my votes I post reasons why I think they are scummy and that is scummy?

You're right, I'm working on it, but I'm also working on moving, working, and doing other things IRL. I set aside tonight for just mafia, so I will have a case for you then.

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

So uh, dana. Read massposts. They're worth it.

So, uh, fill me in, because I can't find this anywhere. Why is Wraith not being daykilled instead of lynched? I thought we agreed we had to lynch someone else because of the daykill.

he claims it happens towards the end of the lynch, which makes no sense cause he has now started voting for wraith again, why lynch him if he is going to die anyway.

Robbie, I know this isn't the first time I directed you to read that post, because you keep insisting how true my dk was. You're selectively reading, which makes me believe that you're scum even more

Post 58: Robbnva decides Xite is no longer a good scumhunter because Xite suspects Robbnva. Not liking that response at all.

you misunderstand, not cause he suspects me but because he is so sure on his reads without anything to validate them. Accusing me without any reason and daykilling wraith(although now it looks fake) wraith with again no intel if he really is scum or not.

A smart player would not be so reckless.

And what would validate them other than a flip? Are you saying we should just nokill every day and watch the nk's every night? Cuz that would be real effective for catching scum

Was the daykill fake? I'm confused.

Wow wraith, you too?

Let's get this sorted.

Xite, were you lying about the daykill? If not, why are you still trying to lynch Wraith? If you are, why did you lie?

Read. The. Goddamn. Thread. I gave reasons for everything I explained everything and I won't again.

ATTN: Players!

I'm done with the charade, it was actually faked.
It was a simple gambit, in order to get a few things running.

Reading Comprehension is an amazing skill

I lol'd but you left out the reasoning

@Wicked about hiphop - Also, he never went anywhere with the wagons, so what info do we have from them?
Also him not stating WHO his case would be on added an awesome amount of ambiguity to his case.

I waited until after the VC because that was when I remembered that I hadn't switched my vote? But I'm done with the charade,

if was actually faked.

For the record, though, other than me having a DK I didn't lie about anything I said about DK's (I have seen things like that )

is this a typo? I am taking from the context that I guess

if

should be an

it

and pretty lame to fake a daykill

Yes, it was it, sorry?
also, did you read the reasoning? And did it get a lot of discussion and much better scumhunting?

[Xite91]

You got discussion but not sure the scum hunting is paying off for you like you hoped

Did I not? Did people start looking at people other than wraith?
Go back and read what happened. There were people looking in other places for sure because they realized they shouldn't be voting wraith anymore if he was going to die anyways. I saw some good points put out too.

1) Like, you're the most townie of townies that anyone who disagrees with your logic must be scum.

I can commit to one lynch for the day, but that doesn't mean I can't put my cases out there. What if I get nk'd and I had a list of who I thought were scum and nailed it but never put it out there? Tunneling is not your friend, so please stop thinking it is.[/quote
2) ]It's funny that you think I have any strong opinion about tunneling. One, because you very much tunneled D1 with Frank, and are/have been doing much of that with Wraith. Two, because I think whatever helps us catch scum is effective, so it's a shame that you're willing to just write-off a scum-hunting technique that when done correctly and in the right way, can really help town.

3) Basically, it doesn't seem like you're willing to allow a pattern of scummy play to form before completely ISOing someone. You make it seem like you've caught scum, but then "keep other people in your line of sights." In all honesty, with this many people, someone's bound to just make one scum-slip that you just have to catch and call them out for, not try to build a case on whatever you can find. To me,

that's

scummy.

1) [selfmetaignorablerant]Haha, no I wouldn't be surprised if I got lynched sometime during the day. People always find me scummy, but for the most part it is effective. And I don't call out everyone that disagrees with me. I call people out for the way they post and what they say. I tend to be a read between the lines player[/selfmetaignorablerant]
2 and 3 contradict each other, therefore I will not respond to them until you decide which one you're going to go with.

The problem I see is X wants wraith dead and he wants people to vote him off but anyone who votes for him gets accused of being opportunistic, band wagoner, or some other scum label

if I switch my vote back to wraith, I'm scum
if I leave it where it is I'm scum
if I vote someone else I'm scum

but in reality whatever I decide to do is based on my own thought process and I will deal with the comments as they come in

right now i'm on my phone so i'm in no hurry to do anything but once I get back to my pc, I'll read up and decide what I want to do.

Not true, I don't accuse anyone that votes him, just the ones that do it in a scummy way. Cry more.

@xite. I know it was slightly different from your theory, but this had the same information and the same conclusion. I thanked you for getting that idea. There was no sarcasm.

Oh, okay. Sorry you confused me a bit.

Lowell in for Orochi as soon as he posts.

Sup NK buddy?

unvote vote: Wraith

Yeah...that was really stupid Xite. It accomplished nothing good.

read through this post and lemme know if that's still your opinion.

[Xite91]

1) I got nothing from your post, was I supposed to? I know the only thing you have done from your fake day kill is to not trust your opinions anymore and to keep an eye on your posts more cause to me faking a day kill is scummy.

Just a couple of things

2) what do you consider voting in a scummy way? (btw I wrote that as if it was me but i guarantee you some people are probably thinking about this themselves.)
3) you really don't think that faking a day kill is scummy?
4) I would not make jokes about NK buddies, not funny and very suspicious
5) cop even agrees what you did was stupid and accomplished nothing.
I have no freaking clue what the hell flinter is even talking about, info out of context really doesn't come across very well

1) Riiiiiight. And how is it scummy? The rest is not really worth responding to.
2) Blatant OMGUS, Blatant wagoning, voting for pisspoor reasons (usually involved with the first two), voting out of stupidity, voting just cause, voting because it's a safe bet, voting for pretty much any other reason than "this person is scum, Vote:"
3) Not at all. It's a common gambit, which made me figure I wouldn't be able to fake it, but I got some good info out of it, so it's really no big deal.
4) In one game, he was nk'd one night for being a claimed doc, and I was the next for being the best townie ever It was a joke in that we were the nk's together. I'd link you the game, but it's not over just yet. Will probably be soon though.
5) Cop is an idiot. This has been established
Also, it would do something if you'd start to actually scumhunt. Oh wait, you cant because you ARE scum.

It is still my opinion, in fact. Robbnva kind of beat me to the punch. Why did we need to post our suspicions of other people when we already have a lynch candidate for the day. That would only give scum more information. So yeah, what you did was good...for scum.

Because that is called tunneling and a terrible thing for town to do. If he's town, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Hell, if he's scum, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Not much right? I was making a point that you should still be looking at other players, lest they slip under the radar.

yeah it basically derailed the lynch and now some people are not sure if they want to go back to it.

Anyone that was positive he was scum before should still be now. What changed? He made one

terrible

post during the gambit. Go back and READ

I can't understand how you all can still believe I'm scum after all the smart posts made in my defense by people like Wicked and Shanba. But if you all want to be gullible, be my guest.

Please tell me this isn't ACTUALLY an attempt to not get lynched. You know what I see this as?
Obvious buddying.

Sadly, though, I'm not too sure whether they would be your buddies or not, or if one is and whoever said "don't do that to me" is another... OHMYGODWIFOMOVERLOAD!!!!!

1) [selfmetaignorablerant]Haha, no I wouldn't be surprised if I got lynched sometime during the day. People always find me scummy, but for the most part it is effective. And I don't call out everyone that disagrees with me. I call people out for the way they post and what they say. I tend to be a read between the lines player[/selfmetaignorablerant]
2 and 3 contradict each other, therefore I will not respond to them until you decide which one you're going to go with.

1...reading between the lines is good, but be careful about misrepping people. That can have a very negative affect indeed.
2...I don't get it...how are you interpreting that as a contradiction?

1) Or a positive one. Just depends how you do it
2) You're tunneling, and you're suspecting everyone. (that would be the contradiction right there)

[Xite91]

@Xite: You say you got good info from the reactions to your stunt. Can you detail how this good info is useful, using names and reasons?

I'm sorry this is taking so long, but I have to work in less than an hour and will hopefully have it all up soon T_T

Because that is called tunneling and a terrible thing for town to do. If he's town, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Hell, if he's scum, what will you have to go on tomorrow? Not much right? I was making a point that you should still be looking at other players, lest they slip under the radar.

What are you talking about? We can look at other players tomorrow just as easily as we could today. All you did was make us look elsewhere for a lynch before we actually had to. That certainly isn't going to do wonders for the town.

It could, considering now we know where some other suspicions lie, in case they're NK'd. Also, looking at who else people go after is a REALLY good idea for catching scum. Think man!

Lol. Here's the case against me: "Bakaw! Wraith is obvscum! Wraith is obvscum! Bakaw! Bakaw!"

Prove me wrong: How about everyone on my wagon state their reasons for voting me.

Will do more of that when I get that big post up (but this game is next in line, so that should be really soon)

Robbie, I still have to read your 1039, but I'm interested to see your points against him.

[Xite91]

wraith.

27 - pointing out you found other people's breadcrumbs who aren't even on the chopping block serves no purpose, especially since nobody noticed it, I never saw it and I still havn't found his breadcrumb.(but I suck at spotting breadcrumbs, in another game someone posted "spoonful of sugar" and it didn't even register to me that was supposed to be the doc breadcumbing)
post 35 - still waiting for you to take a chunk of time to go over Xite, I guess that was just a lie?

Robbie, while I do see where all of your points come from, why are they scumtells? I found one or two, but that's all.
27) I was breadcrumbing Vanilla Townie, in the same way dana breadcrumbed Cop, it was me trying to say how easy it was to do and the fact that he did AFTER he started getting attention, wraith picked up on it, but obviously thought it was a true breadcrumb
35) He did post a little about me, but it really amounted to herp derp Xite's town.

[Xite91]

K guys, I got the day off of work tomorrow partially for this game (feel loved) I plan to be spending at least 2 hours on the post(s) I will be giving you which will probably include
1) A case on robbie
2) A case on wraith
3) An analysis on my gambit
4) A case on those I find scummy enough based on said analysis
5) A possible VC analysis if I deem that there's enough change in votes to do so (but probably not because we haven't gotten enough flips)
6) A TL;DR type scum/town/neutral list and maybe even the key points of everything
7) And maybe even a full reread analysis if I feel up to it

I'm telling you this for 2 reasons.
1) If you want to see anything else from me with this/these masspost(s), let me know and I will include them
2) If I leave anything out (I tend to forget things ) then let me know after my huge post(s)

[Xite91]

Yes, it was it, sorry?
also, did you read the reasoning? And did it get a lot of discussion and much better scumhunting?

Not like we were in the rvs when this happened...We had plenty of discussion going. You derailed the wagon you were on and simply confused the game with clutter. Not a town move imo.

No... no it didn't. Not arguing this one again, people like you (OHMAIGODZWUTABADMUV) are the one's cluttering the thread because you won't leave it along. Working on huge post.... and it's seriously is that (Ginormous)

[Xite91]

God, my grammar is horrible. ._.

Fixed.

[Xite91]

Robbie! (Replaces a2rudeboy)

Rudeboy only posted a confirm post, so nothing to really go off of from there (except that he wasn't really paying attention... mixed up players)

0) Just an annoyance for me... please, when you replace in, just read the game... recaps are usually biased and you can't really believe them.
1) Just a few points, no attacks, and a bit of throwing spaghetti (I usually just go for lurkers... didn't really go on with this one IIRC, if he does, I will be sure to make a note of it in whichever post that is)
2)

while I agree with you on this, cause his pushes were for you, it just seems like an OMGUS accusation. if somebody else pointed it out it may have had more credibility

but yeah he needs to be kept an eye on but not sure he is scum, you have to remember scum wants to be under the radar as much as possible, and this isn't flying under the radar imo

First part, just discredit it completely. It's just as valid if he say's it, because there's reason behind it. OMGUS is usually without reason.

Second part, WIFOM
4) You do this thing a lot I've noticed where you go "this is probably how it is, but I could be wrong" this = A LOT of fence-sitting.
Frank could be town, but he might now be, but if he isn't there's a possibility that he's being bussed, but I could be wrong.
5) Doing it again...
6) Wow... I don't even want to talk about six. You guys can just read it for yourself. Here ya go
7) Your point #2.... I just don't like it. It's hard to explain why
This post is full of WIFOM! WHEEEEEEEE
8) sheepysheepysheepsheep
9) I actually like this post... except for one part. I get this weird feeling every time he say's "going back and rereading, I..." he has actually said this a few times
10) I'm not sure if this is buddying or what, but I don't like this post.
Also, there's too much wanting townie points in here and the fact that you wanted to lynch what you seemed to know was a vanilla townie just seemed off.
12) I'm not sure if this is an attack or what, but eh...
14) Again, how are you so positive? And if you are then why do you want a townie lynch?
15) You once again look like you're just trying to get town cred.
17) Backtracking
18) Again with that whole, it could be, but maybe not mentality...
21) Hmmm... lessee something... That post was made at 10:17 (my time) on August 26th
The post you linked was made at 10:00 (again, my time) on August 26th.... that is not good proof considering you could have posted it specifically because of this game. This is quite scummy indeed.
22) Dunno why, but I feel like this post should be pointed out...
23) More cries for towncreds...


Totally just thought of something... He keeps insisting that scum will stay under the radar, so what does he do? Gets in the limelight a bit... Interesting, not particularly scummy, just interesting.

TL;DR
-Throws a lot of spaghetti (to see what sticks)
- Discredits things that have no reason to be discredited
- Fence-sits on everything
- Sheeping other people's cases and ideas
- Speaking like someone is definitely town (nothing is ever certain unless you're scum)
- Backtracking
- Read 21... this is one of my big points.
- Seriously trying for towncreds

And this is all just based on his first 25 posts. I'm actually really busy right now (dinner, dishes, kids to nanny, packing, and a house to clean) so this is the extent on this case... Wraith's will come a little later, also, I decided that I'm going to do 1 post per each of my things I promised.... makes it easier on me, and I think you guys too

[Xite91]

Okay, so everything you used as a way to defend yourself was WIFOM, your opinions, and "no, you're wrong."
Ironically enough, this is a big scumtell as well.

And 21 was one of my big points as in what I said about 21. You were trying to use something you had posted DIRECTLY BEFORE you posted here as your way of defending yourself. That is scummy, no matter how you slice it.

Opinions =/= hey this could be it, but so could this, but I might be wrong, that's what we call sitting on the fence.
The throwing spaghetti part is more along the lines of, well on my site, we lynch lurkers, and things to that effect (because when no one comments on it, you drop it. If you were that apt to do so, you'd push for it.)
Speaking like SOMEONE is definitely town. Not you, but someone else, in this case Frank. Wow. Please learn to read.
I really like "yawn" as a response. That's the best defense ever.

Unvote, Vote: Robbie

You just completely surpassed wraith as scum IMHO

Preview edit: Dammit. And I just changed my vote too

[Xite91]

Xite, the person you've been pushing all day is at L-3 and you swap wagons? Gods above and below, if I didn't think you were town I'd see scum bailing from vote count analysis. Stop being an ADD fruitcake and finish off one scum before going to another.

I lol'd. Anyways, I feel that Robbie is more likely to be scum at this point.

Wraith would never have shot DP. His read of DP is so accurate in 635, he is so convinced if there is a cop, that it is dana, that I don't see a scumteam with wraith in it killing DP. Bunny follows wraith. I think I'll leave Bunny on my "Neutral" list.

This totally gave me an odd idea. A Wraith/Dana scumteam. Dana claims cop, DP claims cop, the doc will probably target one of them. Wraith "urged" the doc to protect Dana so that, in case DP was actually a cop, they could hit DP no problem.
Just a thought

You do realize that you are shrugging away fact with WiFOM. It isn't even WIFOM that you believe in, but away to avoid the fact. Couple that with his reaction from the fake DK

unvote

yeahwhat?

[Xite91]

0) Oh... just realized this. I feel less like you were buddying suddenly.
1) Made my case against this and I still believe in this part.
2) Pretty much adds up to the same as post 1
4) This post has a scummy vibe to it
5) Screaming for towncreds...
Don't really like his ISO's, but it honestly doesn't look like flailing scum .
11) I like this post. It's smart, something I wish I could see more of from almost everyone.
13) The second part of this one seems odd to me because you describe exactly what dana does as something scum would do to keep from getting lynched, but you still believe his claim? This doesn't make sense.
14) That is a completely wrong statistic. But honestly I believe it was a townie mistake, because scum would be much more aware of how many scum there are.
15) As good an idea that may seem to be, it's not likely AT ALL.
16) That last post is way too much WIFOM
17) Keeping this post in mind (here's where he says, oh lynch me!)
18) I WANT TOWNCREDS!!!!!
20) Directing the vig?
27) Read whole posts plox, not just sentences.
28) Why this post?
29) This is where you become super-scum. Just a vote and a post saying (oh, you will vote me for this, but I don't care)
31) AtE
34) This looks a lot like a prepared attack on me for later...
35) ... I just don't like this post...
36) WIFOM
37) Used by both, but just gets ridiculously confusing and annoying
40) Directs the Doc too?

Sorry, again, too lazy to finish... if you want to see the rest of this, just ask. The rest might wait till later, but I was given a second day off (and nothing of importance to get done YAY!), so I should get it done then. Sorry I keep making this promise... RL's a bitch.

[Xite91]

You're putting the FIRST vote on your first choice of scum, leaving a wagon of eight on your second choice of scum.

Does anyone else find this illogical? Is it just me? Because I don't follow.

Considering rereading Wraith's ISO I'm not as positive Wraith is scum?
Also, I'm completely convinced that Robbie is scum. Even more so rereading him.

[Xite91]

Protip: When writing an iso, write who the person in question is in the topic with the iso.

Fuck I though I did.

The ISO without a name I did is on Wraith

Considering rereading Wraith's ISO I'm not as positive Wraith is scum?

First I've heard of this. Explain.

Yeah, I just reread it. And I gave the ISO. And I gave Robbie's ISO. Therefore, that's enough explanation

Xite, the person you've been pushing all day is at L-3 and you swap wagons? Gods above and below, if I didn't think you were town I'd see scum bailing from vote count analysis. Stop being an ADD fruitcake and finish off one scum before going to another.

+1. Xite, what are you doing? You may think Robb is

scummier

, but do you still think Wraith is scummy at all? If so, you need to be voting a scummy player that actually has a chance of being lynched. I don't see anyone lynching Robb or anyone else for that matter while Wraith is still in the game.

I'm more apt to believe Wraith is town, based on his ISO, which is who that ISO was of.

Who's iso is this? Also, this isn't helpful at all. You can iso anyone in this game and pull something like this. You're just going through each post and proclaiming "AtE" or "WIFOM" etc, which doesn't help anyone figure out if that person is actually scummy.

That was just what I saw. The conclusion was that I'm not so positive that Wraith is scum.

[Xite91]

Also, I just realized I hadn't made this point yet, which is odd because I usually do in such a situation. All those posts where Wraith's only point is to try for townpoints? Hey, guess what- TOWN DOESN'T NEED TOWNPOINTS. Town needs other people's scumpoints. Scum need townpoints. A townie goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, let's find the scum'. A scum goes into a game of mafia saying 'Hey, I'm gonna try to not be lynched'.

To everyone: Of those two categories, can you REALLY see Wraith in the former more than the latter? If he were honestly town, if he sooooo didn't want to play the game he signed up for by scumhunting, which is what town do in a mafia game, he'd have left by now.

I can honestly see where you're coming from with Wraith, I really can, but please look at him in ISO and read him, first as if he were scum, then as if he were noobtown. Which one makes more sense?

Preview edit: Dammit. And I just changed my vote too

1. hardly any of my stuff is truly WIFOM
2. if my opinion can be discredited so can yours, almost everything you have posted being scummy about me is your opinion, so using your own logic it can be discredited, especially if you are mafia (which I am beginning to think you are)
3. I can easily say you are wrong when you say I am scum, cause YOU ARE WRONG. I am not scum,I am pro-town. This is not my opinion, this is FACT. only way to prove it though is at the end of the game, or when I am lynched, or if I am killed.
4. changing bandwagons this late in a game is scummy, especially since you have no proof or really no substantial evidence I am scum. All your accusations towards me are baseless and biased. You went back with the intent of finding me scum, so you take everything I say and twist it to make it seem like scum. If somebody went back and tried to prove I was town, they could easily take those same words and twist it to show I was town.

It seems like you are trying to our as many townies as you can and this is very suspicious and scummy.[/quote]

This is easier if you number what you quoted too. Makes more sense reading.
1) I pointed out what was WIFOM
2) Yes, everyone's opinion can be DISCREDITED, but not everyone's points can be DISPROVED. You're supposed to do the second, not the first.
3) Wow... okay, then lets prove it, huh? Because I'm almost positive you're scum. Are YOU going to start with the whole "town will lose without me" thing?
4) I just posted some proof, and that wasn't even getting into your truly scummy posts (to lazy to full ISO). Prove it, go back and give a town motivation for at least everything I gave a scum motivation for, if not more. And an actual town motivation, not just "oh, well what you say is wrong"

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

@ wicked no I am not sure he is 100% scum but you seem to know that he is 100% not scum and there is only a few ways you could know that.

@ Kise - so you got lucky in 1 game and you think you are the designated GF hunter? as charlie brown would say "Good Grief"

@ gorrad - when accused of being scum, yeah town needs to proclaim they are town. I did not proclaim I was town until Xite questioned me and said he was pretty sure I am scum. I am not changing my vote on Wraith until we have something more tangible, the reasons I am voting him is good enough for me at the moment. he is the person who I most think is scum right now.

your @ Wicked - But wasn't part of your defense against me that I don't %100 know you're scum? So why would you be going after wraith then? (correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I do distinctly remember something to that effect being posted by you)

your @ kise - Honestly, why don't you ask him how he got to that conclusion? I've seen things like this before and they can be oddly accurate.
So @Kise - how did you come to that conclusion?

your @ Gorrad - Town needs to defend themselves, not go "you're wrong I'm town" Get over yourself

Gorrad, have I got this straight? You're saying that proclaiming your pro-townness is scummy? It's really not. A lot of newer players who get frustrated when they have wagons on them will start just screaming that they're town because nothign else seems to be working. In my experience, proclaiming yourself town is a newbtell, not a scumtell.

Building a case on Prozac tomorrow. Also, hi guys, I'm back!

It's not unless you do it in certain ways, read the way robbie did it, then it should make sense

In my experience, Shanba, yeah. It's scummy. It's been my opinion since the first game I played that a town player's main focus should be on scumhunting. Defensive posts, posts proclaiming one's towniness, all those take a back seat to, I dunno, trying to win.

Again, it depends on how it's done

I'm about a pg behind....but

Robb

, please stop with the inquote blue response posting...it's killing me to read, and hard to comment on.

QFT

Wow, we have votes on 10 different people. Obvious scum derailment of Wraith wagon.

@Xite, you need to fully explain why you think Wraith is town. Your weird iso of him doesn't even remotely suggest that he could be town.

@Kise, would you be willing to die in a lake of fire if prozac flips town?

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Oh? It's just obvscum derailment? It couldn't possibly be that quite a few people actually think Wraith isn't the top dog in the list of possible scum? Now, everyone voting someone else is definitely scum. You're right. If I didn't have a policy against it, I'd self-vote right now [/hopefullyobvioussarcasm]

Your @ me - It's because rereading his ISO, he just seems like either newb or terrible town. I don't think he's the lynch for today or until we find some real connections with some other players that flip scum.

Also, that whole post looks a lot like you're just trying to get as much suspicion out there. Also, where are YOUR opinions? I'd like to see them.
Starting with your reason for voting wraith (I don't remember seeing a good one)

I'm liking a Mysterio wagon less and less.

What based on a terrible post?
Or is it because he agrees with you?
Explain plox

[Xite91]

You guys didn't know I'm the Godfather Hunter? Lynch Porochaz, see his flip, then be amazed.

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

Blah, wouldn't it be easier if you point out how you relate Porochaz to GodFather before we make a decision to follow you.

hey bunny, I have a question... do you read massposts?

[Xite91]

Okay, starting from my gambit (post # 896), here's how things go in Xite-vision
All numbers are post numbers, and sorry guys, but I'd suggest you just read along from here

897) Not sure how I feel about Gorrad at this point... he seems REALLY excited to have Wraith killed. Considering the way he's been pushing him though, he's probably(hopefully) just tunnel-visioned town
898) Mod threatens to ruin my gambit (again, you sir are truly evil)
899) I can see where this is just stating your opinions and trying to find our my reasons for "killing" wraith, but this post looks almost forced.
900) Woohoo! I posted 900.
901) No mention of gambit, I feel robbie isn't really reading any of my big posts unless I state they're about him... maybe I'll just state they're all about him from now on. Anyways, his point 1 is false and true at the same time, but I already stated that I think, his 2 is just terribly scummy
902) Anti-prod post, I've decided to call frequent anti-prod posters cows.
903) This post has absolutely nothing of value in it, except he obviously wants Wraith dead. Curious why, though.
904) Wraith, do me a favor? Try playing the game. That's what the big boys do
905) Another seeming anti-prod post and a small V/LA announcement. Expecting more from kise in 12 hours. this post is at 9:40 am on sept. 4th, I'll keep tat in mind.
906) Robbie just confirmed that he doesn't read massposts. Also, it wasn't that hard to miss. It was in bold letters for chrissake
907) Why don't you just do what you're supposed to do and READ THE THREAD? and by the thread I mean ALL OF IT. No wonder you need to do so many rereads all the time.
908) wrong through. you spelled it like he threw something Anyways, try to keep an open mind. Also, this looks scummy because it seems to have a hint of coaching to it.
909) Agreeing with it... damn you mod!
910) Seems legit, except CA needs to start actually saying things.
911) Why would you like that reaction? It really has nothing to do with the kill, unless it meant, now that they find out I'm town, you're the next to go? I'm not sure what you mean by this post, but I'd love an explanation
912) UA needs to scumhunt moar
913) semi-useless post, no tell here, just keeping through all of the posts.
914) Wow mystie, you look a lot like an active lurker ya know. You should probably play the game, because you're looking like a mighty fine lynch for tomorrow.
915) cow-post
916) Prozac seems to be just looking for people to love him here. I think that prozac would be scum if wraith is town.
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
918) grrr you. We aren't on speaking terms
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.
920) Post from me
921) ben needs to keep an open mind and focus on a little more than a menial point that helps pretty much no one unless he's coaching
922) Another me-post
923) This did not get to my main conclusion that if wraith is scum, dana is probably a partner
924) No real reason for this either, play the game ben
925) Another pretty much useless post by ben. If you believe something, act on it, that is all.
926) Reck needs to play or replace out
927) It had, also, for some reason I don't like this post... can't quite place why though
928) Votecount
929) Post by me, also I realized a mistake, that first quote was from ben, not robbie.
930) Not sure why he asked this, but I wish he'd stop active lurking, I feel he's probably a pretty good player when he plays
931) I post too much.
932) This is where @.@ looks like he's trying too hard to look like town. But I still feel he's at least null for now.
933) Prozac, wanna stop lurking?
934) Why does it matter? Why not comment on who I killed? Or anything like that? This seems like you're trying hard to stay neutral.
935) A lot of WIFOM. Not sure what to make of this post. Maybe you actually are scumhunting, in that case, who's scum?
936) Okaaaay? lynch me for it, then. Make an actual goddamn stance
937) what case on him dana? Wanna make one for me?
938) All you have is a hunch, sometime educated, but sometimes not, so what is your point here? Oh, you don't have one? You just want to look like you're saying something important? Makes sense.
939) Again, @.@ has this knack for making me not like his posts without being able to pinpoint why. Must just be gut.
940) Terrible reason to join the next new wagon.
941) I lol'd. But I would like actual playing from you
942) Okay, I don't like this post either, but I can say why, these are two of the people with pressure on them. This is classic fence-sitting because he can now jump from either wagon whenever he pleases and state that he already said he would. What I would LOVE is a case from him.
943) goddamn AtE. Robbie, please don't try to do the same thing Frank did. It didn't help him and it won't help you.
944) I claim it was a gambit
945) This post is obvious why I don't like it (and no it's not OMGUS on my side)
946) Ben, still WHY THE DUCK DOES IT MATTER? Seriously, play the goddamn game, stop tunneling on something that really doesn't matter.
947) I already argued this point
948) That you seriously need to read
949) post from me
950) Say you can't, but why not exactly?
951) okay? What?
952) This isn't really a big deal, just don't use it and it will be fine
953) I'm suddenly playing like a loose cannon? I though before you thought I knew what I was doing? How does this make sense?
954) Again, play the game, there's really not a point to this
955) What's your take on playing mafia, ben?
956) answer
957) Explained
958) Post from me
959) EBWOP from me
960) Again, it depends on how things were done, also, I decided you're not so much scum, just a REALLY hard read that appears scummy
961) This is SOOOOO useful. Wraith, try playing the game, minus the complainy AtE, k?
962) Don't like this post from Gorrad... not sure why

Conclusion - keep in mind that everyone starts off as scum to me (I know, an odd way of playing, but it seriously makes it easier IMO)
- Robbie is still scum
- Prozac is possible scum, but only if Wraith is town
- Wraith is probably town
- Gorrad is terribly hard to read, but I think he's town
- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum
- he also ruined my line of is's which makes him more scummy [/obvjoke]
- Ben is possible coaching scum that is looking for excuses not to scumhunt
- @.@ is a lot like Gorrad, just a much more towncred-seeking version of gorrad, he's probably also town based on the fact that I have no real evidence on him, but gut says otherwise
- UA needs to play the game. Null read at best on him (but I think that's his playstyle, so maybe he is playing? Iunno, hard to read)

I kept going for a bit to include some of the reactions to my saying it's a gambit

I'd like to apologize to everyone in this game, also. I realize I have not been playing up to my normal par, but RL really is gettin in the way all the time, but I have been to set aside time for this game in particular as much as I possibly can.

[Xite91]

This is so ironic. I'm really starting to see dana/robbie, and since I feel dana can't be scum without wraith, maybe he's back in that list too. But really Wraith needs to post more before I make that decision

Why is it ironic and why are you seeing this as a scumteam?
I think you're just mad because I pointed out your scumminess in derailing the Wraith wagon, voting for Wraith again, and unvoting him again. Wishy-washiness on the main wagon is extremely scummy.

First, the first time I got off of it was to keep my gambit alive-ish. Then I got back on because wraith was still my top suspect and lynch choice, then I read his ISO and decided he was just bad town, and honestly robbie is the perfect lynch for today.

It's ironic because this was your list

My opinion on walls of text.
Gorrad: town
Xite: scummy
Robbnva: neutral
Mysterio: town
hiphop: scummy
If the Wraith wagon actually does fall apart, I would definitely vote for hiphop or Xite, preferably hiphop, since Xite hasn't been too scummy before this whole thing.

gorrad: attacking wraith
me: no longer attacking wraith, I got scummy when I stopped attacking wraith
robbie: not really pushing or against the wraith wagon
myst: voting wraith without question
hiphop: under a lot of attention for his blatant wagoning "techniques" so safe to put him there
Then, if people stop attacking wraith, I would vote for hiphop, or xite, hiphop because he's the next likely candidate, and xite because she's on her way to being a likely candidate.

Honestly, like I said, if you were scum, then wraith is no doubt a scumbuddy, and vice versa, so I can see you really trying to bus him, but setting yourself up for something else in case the lynch doesn't go through
It was just an ironic post if you look at the motivation behind it.

[Xite91]

hey bunny, I have a question... do you read massposts?

Usually yes I do, but I would be lieing if I said I read every single masspost that a person makes.
Probably 70% or 80% i read them.

k, just saying I made that point. You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

[Xite91]

Doing research... this game is making me think wraith could be scum... looking for more completed games from him...

That was the only completed game where he was town that I could find

Games where he's scum
He doesn't get a lot of attention here (I didn't read EVERYTHING, but I did read 2-3 pages of his 4 page ISO), but when he does he does resort to a small bit of AtE... the rest of his posts though seem so much less like they do here, I don't know what to think
Another one where his mafia play does not match this one

So... his playstyle seems to be the pretty much the same in ALL of those games... I'm not sure why it's so different here

[Xite91]

965 was by far my best game because I managed to manipulate the town successfully. In all my town games (which I'm dead in) every time I opened my mouth I was immediately piled upon by the scum and town, which is why I've seemed pissed off this entire day, because this would be the third damn time in a row it's happened to me.

makes sense, but just play the game regardless.
Argue cases and make your own, who's scum? why?

[Xite91]

okay, so I've addressed pretty much everything I said I would in my "previes" (I lol'd), if you feel I've left anything out, let me know

[Xite91]

Quick question Xite...your point on 921/946 in relation to me don't seem to make sense with your conclusion...you think I'm coaching...you?

no, I meant you're coaching others (possibly scum) letting everyone know that it's probably not real, and you're not really adding anything of importance, just asking useless questions.

@UltimaAvalon, be more useless.

mmk

playstyle

Playstyle implies I'm playing. I haven't been. I've been reading the thread as it progresses and finding my opinions flip-flopping repeatedly. I've entertained thoughts of getting replaced, or simply doing something to get myself modkilled so as to not shoulder the burden onto another hapless soul.

There's a reason for this though

There seems to be a new method of playing Mafia on this site. Where once logic and reason ruled the boards, I instead find speed wagons and an entire town with tunnel-vision. Those without this tunnel vision are also marked as scum and thrown onto the "You're Next" list. This game is like a slower version of Epic Mafia, and it disturbs me. I cant even get a read on people because they sound like completly different people every 5 or so pages

I can see where you're coming from, but maybe if you played and suggested other ways of playing it would get better. But just maybe

And in epic, xite reminds me of the guy who takes charge from the start and makes it to the end and convinces town to hammer town and he wins as mafia

Then. Fucking. Vote. Me.
Stop trying to see if you'll get away with it, just do it.
If you have REAL reasons, I won't call it OMGUS, but right now it seems to be that way.

[Xite91]

@Xite

in your opinion the way I have played this game, have I tried to look town or have I not tried to look town?

(me declaring I am town is not the same as what I am asking)

You have tried to look town. Hence your question of how town should look, and some of the things I already pointed out that you said

[Xite91]

@CA - what is that link supposed to do for us?

[Xite91]

k makes sense, point those things out from now on

[Xite91]

@xite - I am not changing my vote, i still think wraith is scum and nobody is going to go with me to lynch you so wasted effort. I'll wait and see how whoever we lynch today flipps and what happens at night.

Okay, I just want to make sure everyone know that you're OMGUSing me, unless you have reasons that aren't I became a terrible player when I started voting you

[Xite91]

EBWOP- Voting should be Attacking

[Xite91]

@xite - I am not changing my vote, i still think wraith is scum and nobody is going to go with me to lynch you so wasted effort. I'll wait and see how whoever we lynch today flipps and what happens at night.

Okay, I just want to make sure everyone know that you're OMGUSing me, unless you have reasons that aren't I became a terrible player when I started voting you

i'm not omgusing you, unless defending myself is OMGUSing

Saying you think I'm scum or I could be scum = Attacking me, and the way you're doing it = OMGUS

[Xite91]

I asked to be hammered several times because I figured the cause was lost (especially since everything I said was being turned against me) and preferred not to spend any more attention on a lost cause. I wanted the town to quit focusing on a massive distraction, get the definitive info they needed, and start lynching the real scum.

but you started this when there was barely any attention on you

[Xite91]

@Xite - I still want to know why all of a sudden Wraith is town in your eyes cause I have not seen anything (unless I missed something)to make me change my mind on him and I'm not sure anyone else has or they would have unvoted.

I understand you think I'm scum, somehow I'll have to prove I'm not but for right now we have more than enough data to analyze after the wraith lynch to focus our search for scum

IMO best option is to keep this bw going OR find somebody else that we can all agree is scum.

Because I read his meta. I reread him in ISO and none of it makes sense. IIRC none of the games he played he was a power role in, and so I'm worried we're on the way to lynching an inexperienced pr, or he could be a serial killer, etc etc. Let him get NK'd instead for gods sake, and for the sake of this game moving on.

Oh and @ Xite

can you show me or tell me an example of me "trying" to act town

and than show me somebody who is town and not "trying"

I want to see what your idea of somebody trying and somebody actually being town

also, go look at the newbie game I was just lynched in a week or so ago (I think Xrec is modding it) and just look at my play there since I replaced in and tell me if it is any different than my play here.

I'll do this later when I have enough time and givadamn to do so.

Hang on, since when did "pushing your own mislynch" become a scumtell? Just because I said "screw it" and started acting like an asshole doesn't mean I'm evil scum.

it's not so much a scumtell as antitown, considering that if you're town, you're the only mod-confirmed townie you've got, which would be defeating the purpose if you were trying to catch scum.

Overreaction is scummy

"go ahead and lynch me" kind of posts as an attempt to look town.

I want you to explain this one, because it doesn't look like an attempt to look town at all. Also, overreaction is only scummy in certain cases, other time it's just an annoyed town tell. You have to read between the lines a bit when it comes to overreactions.

915) cow-post
917) Wait, you were three pages behind two posts ago, and now that you're doing a catch up post you're still three pages behind? Doesn't make sense, but not really a tell either.
Also, you seem to make a few good points mixed in with... I don't know what. I do agree a bit on what (whoever it was) is saying about you staying off of the main wagons for town creds, but I won't believe you're scum until you do something else (that I won't mention until you do it so you don't avoid it) That will have to wait, though.
919) Not sure how to take this post, if I was looking for the scummiest way, I'd say you're doing that for AtE purposes so he won't attack you anymore, but if I was looking for the towniest way, I'd say you're making a point you truly believe is valid (and partially is). But it's probably somewhere in between.

...

- Wicked is neutral leaning on scum

915) I don't know what that means.
917) When I said I was three pages behind in post 915, that was because I saw that the thread was up to 37 pages and I was at page 34 so I just immediately thought I was three pages behind. I guess I should have said I was four pages behind in post 915... but I don't see how it matters.
919) Huh? Where are you getting AtE from in my post? I don't believe I did that.

...

So... I'm neutral leaning scum for saying I'm three pages behind, saying something else which you admit isn't really a tell, and saying something which you are undecided on? Interesting.

You'd probably be a better scumhunter if you read ALL massposts. I've seen a lot more slips in those than small posts in my experiences.

Dang it! I guess I'm not a good scumhunter either.

915) It's obvious you didn't read the whole post.
917) Like I said, it isn't a tell, just something I noticed. I made a point of talking about EVERY post.
919) It was very close to what robbie was doing (that I think you even called out, but it could have been gorrad) where he was saying that no matter what he does he's scum, your's was just on a much smaller scale, that's why I said it could go either way.

And null to scummy =/= scum
It means that I don't have a read on you. I think I even said to keep in mind that I start every game with a scum read on EVERYONE.

I didn't say a bad scumhunter didn't, I said that you'd be BETTER if you did.

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

No, there's a difference between the two. Townies rarely care about appearances because their main goal is to lynch scum, and nothing SHOULD get in the way of that, scums main goal is to look like town, so they pretend to scumhunt and try to gain town creds wherever they feel safe to do so.

@flinter, explain why you're voting for me and not bussing your buddy Wraith. You'll get a lot more town points that way.

Earlier you said my vote had no chance,

yet now you are saying that you also suspect flinter

, so why do you have a problem with my vote?

@wickedest,

I am NOT voting for flinter

.

She is probably scum just from her play, but Wraith is by far the scummiest player I have ever seen in a game.

No one claiming he is town has given any reasons for it except "gut". Well guess what? I don't give a crap about your gut reads. What is the pro-town result of keeping Wraith alive if indeed you somehow believe he's town? He is a scummy distraction with nothing useful to add. Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

Traditional scumplay. Defending by "subtily" changing the accusation. Classic strawman, I bolded it for you. Then the fact that he wants a wraith lynch even if he is town seals it for me.

confirm vote Mysterio

You should probably read that next part, I even underlined it for you.

Gorrad and Robbvna have been using more and more circuitous logic in their case against me, culminating in:

going off what gorrad said, trying to get town points would be the same as trying to look town, which is scummy

According to this, everyone is scum, because scumhunting can be classified as "trying to look town." As well as "trying to get lynched." For all you know I'm a Jester. "As well as defending oneself" because apparently town don't do that.

So you see Xite's flawed logic too

Ironically, first, gorrad brought it up, and second it's not flawed logic, I've talked to plenty of mafia-players about this one (trying to look like town) and it's a common scumtell to do so. If you'd shut up and think for a while, you might actually see what we're talking about.

[Xite91]

@flinter - But you didn't bring that up, you bolded what seemed like an inconsistency, and I was point out why it wasn't. As for his answer, read the rest of that quote. He has a problem with it BECAUSE it's not on Wraith.

[Xite91]

I'll shut up if you stop posting a novel every other post

I'll stop posting novels if this game doesn't go up two pages every night while I'm sleeping. Those are catch up posts, believe it or not.
And I don't mind you posting, I just wish you would think before you do so.

[Xite91]

I have add and no impulse control, I post what's on my mind

not sure what you are hinting at with mr thinking before I post but the logic behind my posts make sense to me

but you don't stop to think about the logic behind other people's post. And that's a big part of the game.
[lifetimerant]I know it's hard, I have ADD as well. I had to overcome the same things I'm sure you're working on, but this game has actually helped quite a bit with my ADD, because I force myself to focus on it. Trust me, you can do it.[/lifetimerant]

[Xite91]

Isn't it possible that we interpret people's logic differently?

Like the wraith comment about the mislych train and all of those posts TO ME seems like he is doing it hoping to get people to change their mind, you think all of a sudden is a power role or something

I tend to be skeptical cause I've been burned before. 1 game on another site I had info I was sure he was maf, he convinced everyone but me that he was doc. He won the game and he was GF

But not every game is the same, and if he keeps it up, we can lynch him before MyLo or LyLo, if he's still alive by then. I seriously don't think he's scum, and seeing he has no experience with PR's I can see him being one and not knowing how to play it. (My first time as a vig -my first PR- I got lynched D1 because I played terribly compared to other times I'd played because I was looking at everyone like "well, if they don't lynch him, I can just vig him tonight." so I wasn't putting as much effort into scumhunting as I normally do, and it made me look scummy the way I was talking/playing.)
I'm just saying, his meta does not add up, and honestly rereading his ISO I don't think he's mafia just yet. The one thing me and Gorrad and now you already discussed to all hell and back is the only thing that would convince me otherwise, and it's really not enough to convince me at this point, epecially considering how scummy you are in my eyes, especially because of how much you suddenly started to push this wagon.
(IIRC you didn't REALLY start pushing it until I started saying how scummy you were, before then you just said he was a good lynch and sheeping others on it... but I'll have to go back and check tonight for that, although even if it was before or after that I do remember it being sudden.)

[Xite91]

Will get a post up tomorrow.

good, why don't you add your case on your mystery player and what you got from the wagon yesterday to it?

[Xite91]

LOOK AT THE WAY YOU TRY TO DESCRIBE YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PART! ARE YOU SERIOUS?
I don't care where the heck your vote is right now. If all it took was a reading of Wraith's iso to make you flip-flop on him AGAIN, then there's something wrong with you. I find it much more likely that you are just his scumbuddy.
And I laughed at you trying to make everything revolve around wraith in the second part. You couldn't relate hiphop to it, so you just had to say, "oh, he's playing it safe". And strangely enough, Robbnva is VOTING for Wraith right now, so I'm pretty sure he's pushing his wagon, aren't you?

Uhm...yeah? why is that scummy?
read it, then you will see. I already said this. Alright, get enough people to lynch him and when he flips town (as he probably will) try to come after me with that logic.
Uhm, that's what it looked like to me, you asked why it was ironic, I said why. That is all. Uhm, ok? And he's really not, he's just sitting on the most likely wagon. Wagon someone else, watch the magic.

I'm voting for wraith cause I have not seen any reason not to. I voted cause I thought his actions and words were scummy and have not seen any proof that he isn't scum or a convincing argument from anyone

I'm not pushing a wagon cause I'm not telling people or strong arming people to vote wraith

Do you not see this??? This post is him saying, it's the largest wagon, but I won't push it because I don't believe in it.

I think all of this is scummy but I am going to sleep on it, I may be changing my vote in the morning.

I don't like how people broadcast that they may or may nor be as confident in their vote as they want us to think they are. Vote when you feel necessary, stick with it, and stop giving us this bullshit crap about how you "may or may not" feel the same way in the future. No shit, Shirlock. We all "may or may not" change our votes depending on reactions, future scummy/town behavior, etc. Oy vey...

It's a way for him to change his vote if someone else gets wagoned.

As for the posting fluff, a little here and there isn't bad. Look at my interactions with the mod. Holy shit, we posted fluff back and forth! But too much fluff or fluff at an inappropriate time is scummy, although I don't feel that that was. Although this;

Posting fluff
posting fluff



I don't need mommy telling me how to play or what I should or should not post.

was a bit much.

We really need a deadline. This game has become stagnant.

You mean because the lead wagon keeps getting derailed, by the lead promoter.

Sorry if I decided my scumdar was off? I got it working again though. now, add to the game or gtfo

Also, are you people all so stuck in your mindsets, so tunneled on your one or two top suspects,t hat you're not even prepared to listen to alternative cases? I remember a similar reaction when I first made my case on hiphop yesterday and evryone totally ignored it until I jumped up and down and demanded response, and now I'm getting the same thing with my prozac case. Even if you disagree, that kind of info is better than ignoring it totally.

I agree, just look at why anyone is saying I'm scummy.
Also, I saw your case on prozac, and I'd like to see some more posts from him.

That's what I got from two pages of Robb's ISO. I'm not even done yet. But right now I'm tired, especially since I had to do this damn thing twice, so I'll finish later.

Exactly. I had the same problem,

it's just too obvious that he (robbie) is scum if people would just read him in ISO

Anyways, I'll read your mysterio case later cuz I still have a lot to do.

dana: I seem to recall that you are already workign on the assumption that Wraith is scum. Does that mean that you think Xite is bussing?

WAS
Xite was bussing Wraith, imo. He's (she's?) not voting him anymore. It's not 100%, but it's more likely not, and as likely as anything can be at this point.

Again, if Wraith is so obvscum, get him lynched, and then if he flips scum, get me lynched.

I ignore your WOTs cause I don't care what you have to say about me.

I do have 1 question, what is wrong with a pro-town person thinking that a person is scummy if they try to make a huge case to show everyone that he is scum, when he actually isn't

I know what i am and if somebody tries to convince everyone I am something I am not, of course that person gets top of my FOS list.

Holy fucking shit how do people not know you're scum yet?

I don't like commenting on a WoT attack on a specific player until they make a counterpost.

Do you read the thread? Try reading robbie's last post.

[Xite91]

EBWOP by robbie's last post I meant the one I quoted of him.

[Xite91]

@Wraith - I like your case on mystie, except for a few flaws. In a game this large, scum will not be that easily connected to each of their scum partners.
Another thing is that certain players, if scum is not apparent, should always be the lynch because of the MyLo/LyLo factor. They become a distraction and usually end up the mislynch that causes the loss. Honestly, him saying that was probably one of the towniest things I've seen from him this game.
There were a few small things as well, but I forgot what they were and I'm too tired to do a reread cuz it will all blend together, but for the most part I do still like the case just not enough for me to be positive he's scum just yet. Also, seriously, robbie's the lynch today.

[Xite91]

Also, I saw your case on prozac, and I'd like to see some more posts from him.

read.

[Xite91]

@xite - I am not pushing a wagon cause pushing wagons are scummy.

Nuff said.

I already said earlier I thought mysterio could be scum, I even voted him when Xite ran his scummy gambit, but the fact that you are pushing Mysterio now makes want to look into Mysterio some more cause if you are scummy which I think you are, you pushing mysterio now could be just an attempt to get the bandwagon off of you.

The fact that you even admitted you played up the overexageration to people voting you so they will actually unvote me is really the iciing on the cake, it was a gambit you ran and has not worked like you thought it would. (and than the cherry on top was telling the cop to investigate you, I have done this all the time when I was scum, especially when I was the GF. It is an attempt to make the cop think you really are innocent and than they won't investigate you. I know this cause every time I have used that the cop never investigated me the next night so I am not buying this either.)

as for your WOT on me, I am not even going to waste my time responding to yet another one on me. I have responded to 2 and anything you have to say about me is discredited because like Xite said, we are allowed to discredit people's opinions so I discredit the opinions of scum.

K. If robbie is scum, mystie is scum.

Right now my list of Scum are Wraith and Xite. I still think Mysterio is scum but the fact that Wraith is trying to attack him it could mean they are possibly different scum groups

Yup. Setting up lynches with a side of scum distancing.

1) Anyways, back to business. Xite, considering this is a large game I'm thinking there's a 4-man mafia at least. One is dead, of course, and because of that I'm fairly positive there's an SK. I'm discounting the possibility of a second mafia because nhammen's flip was simply "mafia goon" and not "red mafia goon" or something. At the moment, my belief on the scumteam is this:

2) nhammen/Mysterio/Robbnva/Prozac

3) For now, though, we need to lynch Mysterio. Mysterio's very likely scumflip will give us a lot of needed info and probably change the tune of some buddied townies, which I'm more inclined to believe Gorrad is.

Mod, vote count and deadline please.

1) Lets wait until we have 1-2 more mafia flips before we really start speculating that.
2) Keep this list in mind. I believe you have something there with robbie and mystie, but hold the phone on prozac.
3) We need a robbie flip, and then all will be clear.

Lol at me keeping to the backround. I've posted more than half the people playing

and a wraith lynch right now will give us more info. You keep saying you are a mislynch but your overactions support that it isn't

He means you're not scumhunting, which you're not. You're slipping through the cracks because you play like a VI.
And you posting more has nothing to do with you alignment, not to mention the vast amount of triple posts you do.
It's like you're looking for people to notice that you're there.

Ok shanba, kise, and Lowell all voted for Poro and none of them gave a good reason

shanba - to explore another avenue
kise - voted cause poro said "did you do any research"
Lowell - to find a wagon that sticks

None of these votes make any sense and none have a real reason for their vote

If they don't agree with the wraith or mysterio wagons they need to do some scum hunting or something cause those votes are lame

And here is why prozac is town. He starts getting defended by robbie (flailing scum) after someone says that they're a scumgroup, a failed attempt at buddying.

[Xite91]

1) lol I am not quickly approaching that and I am not self destructing.

Question for everyone playing this game I am going to give you 2 scenarios and you tell me which is scummier

2) Scenario 1 - Player A posts reason for his vote on player B and never changes his vote

3) Scenario 2 - Player A pushes hard to lynch Player B and once there are a bunch of votes leaves the bandwagon because all of a sudden for no reason whatso ever, that person is not scummy anymore


4) Also @UA - in this game all anyone has is their word and the only way somebody can defend themselves is to say Nuh Uh, if I had some other way to prove I am pro town I gladly would but I can't.

5) also Xite is a gril? that explains a lot

1) You really are. Point out a few posts that aren't and I might believe you.
2) Depends on the situation. Lets say he posts reasons for player b, but then changes his mind and thinks player b isn't scum, but leaves his vote on said player. In that scenario (and a few others, but you can just read up on mafia theory, something I really feel you should do anyways) it is ridiculously scummy.
3) All of a sudden for no reason whatsoever huh? Funny, I'm pretty sure it was because I found someone better to lynch. And a few other reasons. How about you READ THE THREAD. Fuck, what has mafia come to? This is like my third game at once that people were being just plain stupid because they hadn't read the whole thread.
4) No, what people can do to defend themselves is to dispute the claims against them, saying why they aren't true, simply saying "nuh-uh" is something that townies should never do.
5) No, I am not a gril. Sorry to disappoint.

[Xite91]

so somebody who has found reasons to think that person is scum and wants them lynched and will not change because he still finds that person scummy, is scummy to you? oh jesus use your brain man. so you think flip flopping is not scummy? And don't change my words, the words you added in to scenario 2 is not accurate

A townie that finds someone scummy enough to warrant a lynch will push a case against them. Guess what you said you weren't doing. That means you don't find them scummy enough to warrant a lynch, therefore you are trying simply to slide by. That is scummy.
The words you said are not accurate either. I do have reasons to believe he's town, but not the reasons UA stated. Go back and read.

[Xite91]

Wow. Just...Wow.

Xite, I agree with you. Robb is pretty bleedin' scummy, and I would not hesitate to lynch him. However, I feel the same way about Wraith. I honestly have seen no compelling reason, from you or anyone else, to swap wagons. If you can convince me of your reasoning behind Xite being town without saying 'Read his Iso and see how it feels' for I have and it feels like obvious scum, I'm willing to swap.

K, will do tomorrow.
But it does have to do with the meta of his past town (all vanilla IIRC) and scum games both looking nothing like this.
I seriously feel he's just a pr and doesn't know how to play it, but eh. that's just speculation

Speaking of which, what does everyone feel Wraith claiming at this point would do for them?
Because depending on said claim, I might believe he's scummier or townier

Oh ya, almost forgot

Dana, don't investigate based on suggestion, or we'll wind up with a repeat of Night 1

or worse

kthx

QFT

[Xite91]

Just noticed Robbie made an ISO of me (Stupid faulty internet )

1-10) Nope, there's definitely stuff in there. Read again.
11) You might want to reread that post. I think you messed up a bit there
12) She wasn't adding anything of her own, just restating other's opinions.
13) Obviously, you don't know what the term "throwing spaghetti" means. Maybe you should ask before making assumptions.
15) Whoa wait. Where did I say that?
17) Hahahaha. Would you like me to quote where you were so apt to follow me? What does that make you?
18) Ok?
21) Read it again.
22) Uhm.... what? Where in that entire thread does that look like I have a god-complex. Besides, since when are god-complexes scummy. And if they are, I can give you a good long list of policy lynches for you to keep with you whenever you are playing
23) I figured it out
24) I think you might want to reevaluate your numbering system...
27) K. And that's scummy because?
28) Read my response to 27
29) And he was in my mind until I reread him.
31) You were already pinging my scumdar, but not as much. And it was you going, "well it's like this, but it could be like that or even that" which is pretty much setting yourself up for every avenue out there
32) K, so I made one mistake, lynch me. Give me a few days, I can prove to you how great a scumhunter I am after one of my games end.
33) That was a gut read based on what Frank was saying about each of you. Yes, since he flipped town that all goes out the window, but there's plenty more that makes you scummy so, no, it doesn't clear you. Also, I had reasons, so no it wasn't throwing spaghetti. Throwing spaghetti is where you throw out a bunch of suspicion, see what everyone else attacks, and then tunnel that person until they're lynched.
36) Because, even though the wagon had valid REASONS, I was more suspicious of the players jumping on. Also, the time where I would have voted I wasn't on. Remember how fast this thread explodes. Remember also that those explosions are USUALLY when I'm asleep.
40) You mean I was OMGUSing his OMGUS vote? Holy shit, way to take things out of context. Seriously, you left out a whole case and then used one out of context point of it against me. You're so scum.
41) Again, there's this thing called context. Try using it sometime. That was my RL attitude and I was using it as an example to what he was saying. Also, it really depends on how the person does it. Quote me the time I said it was scummy and I'll tell you the exact differences that made his scummy.
81) Again, ok? Why is that scummy?

sigh, it's getting late. kind of hard to weed through Xite's ISOs cause she posts a bunch of words that really don't amount to much, yet she accuses others of the same thing. I will try and do more later, but people need to step back and make sure they want Xite leading them cause her reads haven't panned out yet and not sure they ever will.

Dana, you wanted a suggestion on who to investigate? Xite would be the first person I would investigate if I was a cop. She is doing a damn good job of making herself look town, would not suprise me if she was actually mafia. She says people are scum because of things they do and she goes and does the same things.

First, point out where these "words that don't amount to much" are. I'd really like to see them.

Again, I do not go and do the same things. The only times you pointed out that I did were out of context and wrong, and a blatant lie. Hmmm...

[Xite91]

Nobody has figured out my claim yet? I've implied like fifty times that I'm just a VT.

Okay, because of this post right here (and the fact that it throws out quite a bit of my theory on him) this is me expressing my intent to hammer if I cannot get a lynch on robbie.

Xite91, do you think we'll manage to get somebody other than Wraith lynched today?

Sadly, probably not, but because of his claim, I figure he's got at least a 50% chance of flipping scum at this point. And if he's not, we got rid of a VI, which isn't always a bad thing.

915) You're right. I didn't.
917) This is why I didn't read the whole thing.
919) That wasn't AtE. I was simply pointing out why Robbnva's point against me was a bad one. My response was completely justified: If Wraith was scum I would've gotten lots of attention for defending him. If Wraith was town I was already getting attention for defending him for "trying to get town credit". This pretty much means that I have to attack Wraith.

915) k, it wasn't anything bad so don't worry much about it
917) Fair enough, though I would still prefer you did (I would give you the same courtesy if you took the time to post something like that)
919) Which was why I added the portion saying that it could be either or, because it wasn't as blatantly obvious as robie's post, but it was still there.

[Xite91]

okay I was able to get a short internet connection, after the vanilla townie claim(which I am still not so sure of) I decided to look at the other people who had votes on them, specifically Mysterio and Porochaz., I noticed every single vote by Poro had no valid reason for it, even looking at his posts I still did not see anything of value as to why he found people scummy.

Another clue for me was when he was accused of being the Godfather, he did not deny it, he danced around it and asked if he did any research. In my experiences whenever somebody is accused of something, failure to deny first is usually a red flag.

example

Mom: I saw you steal the cookie
kid: are you sure you saw me and not somebody else - a better response is to just DENY it first. "No mom I did not steak the cookie"
Mom: yes it was you

to use it here

Kise: You are Godfather
Poro: did you do research or you talking out your ass - (this is not a denial, this is trying to dig into seeing of Kise actyally has any info that proves he is bad, and this to me is scummy)

so i will let the VT live a litte longer(if that is indeed what he is, and the fact that Xite has now opened up his mind to Hammer wraith if need be should be a red flag to some of you out there)

I don't care what anyone says and if I get lynched or killed because of it I will take it to my grave this comment

Nobody has figured out my claim yet? I've implied like fifty times that I'm just a VT.

Okay, because of this post right here (and the fact that it throws out quite a bit of my theory on him) this is me expressing my intent to hammer if I cannot get a lynch on robbie.

is SCUMMY AS ALL FUCKING HELL.

off to work now.

Vote porochaz

dancing around an accusation instead of denying is classic scummy behavior

First, Poro is probably still town if you flip scum, but nice try.
Second, Really? You're going to say that him not denying a rather silly claim means that he's actually guilty of said claim? Wow.
Third, me expressing my intent to hammer based on the fact that I probably won't get my desired lynch today and him claiming VT ruined part of my reason for clearing him is not scummy as all fucking hell.
Fourth, if you think I'm scum, get me lynched, that's how the game goes, but instead you go after poro (someone that's getting a good amount of attention, no less) ignore mystie (the other person getting attention) and don't vote the person you think is scum. That, sir, is scummy as all hell.
Fifth, just want to clarify that I feel I'll be the NK tonight, especially if everyone's saying "investigate xite, make sure we're not following scum." If you think I'm scum, vote me, make a case on me, and maybe we'll have a good argument going, but don't direct the cop to investigate me so that you know whether or not I'm town, that's just opening you up for bad things. Also, lets try not to do this, k?

[Xite91]

EBWOP

No directing the Gorram cop! D X

I love you for this

[Xite91]

Personally, I'd rather lynch Robbie than Wraith. If Wraith is still the wagon-leader come late Thursday, then that's where I'll put my vote.

QFT. Moar votes on robbie plox

OMG gorrad's a vig. Hey gorrad, kill poro. Dana, investigate the vig.

Wait, lowell, weren't you the doc? protect the cop

[Xite91]

@Xite - you really should not be so focused on one person, I understand you think I am scummy but that doesn't mean you should give up on finding others and you have. and the way you are pushing a lynch on people you shoudl actually have more than just your hunches because those have been proved wrong with Frank

@ everyone you guys need to be open minded and go back and re-read the thread, take notes, and come up with REAL evidence as to why somebody is possibly scum.

Spaghetti throwing and WIFOM are not scum traits.

Oh, I'm plenty focused on others, and I definitely know who I'm going to go after come tomorrow, and probably the next day, but today it's you. Also, I have made some points against my other suspects, but I have done so with a little less... showiness? For some experienced players, I hope you understand why I have done this.

I have PLENTY of real evidence as to why you're scum, and I didn't even get into the meaty part of your posts. And by meaty, I mean posts RIDDEN with scumtells

WIFOM not so much, unless done in excess or practically any time anyone has said "if I was scum, why would I do this"
Spaghetti throwing is RARELY done by a townie because they are confident in their cases, scum do it so that they can become "confident" in their cases by being backed up by the town

I'm still here, not flaking. Not much else to say except flinter's buddying of Wraith is becoming a bit too obvious for no one else to have mentioned it. Wickedest may have been on to something with his vote.

I haven't ISO'd anyone else nor do I intend to until I have more free time. Skimming the last page, Robb is under attack for playing like a VI. Gotta love how this game seems to be chalk full of VI's.

Will fully respond to whatever needs responding to tomorrow.

Hey mystie, I've got a question.
How would you play if you weren't scum?

Hey everyone,

55 pages!

I will read and comment on what sticks out to me (if anyone wants my opinion of something specific, you're going to have to ask).

-AH

Welcome to the game! Don't be offended if I treat you a little... poorly

[Xite91]

A) so when I eventually die and flip town, I hope people will come back to this post and realize you should not be trusted for you reads on scum. If you go and look at other games I have finished on this site (or games I have been lynched from) when I have been town, you will see I basically do the same things I am doing here. What you call "scum tells" is sadly the way I play. My strategy is to I guess as you say it "throw spaghetti" to get people engaged into the game and talk more. People who lurk and don't post much ruin the game, especially when it is late in the game and they have a power role and have not been paying attention.

I HATE lurkers more than anything so yeah,

I throw a little spaghetti their way to get them talking.

B) look I mentioned Mysterio in my post earlier and look who showed up posting, and shockingly he mentions me in his post. The one who has not yet shown up is Poorchaz who I honestly think is the lynch for today.

C) ad if you were really looking at other people why not go back and look at the comments I made about him and see if they make sense to you?

D) and @UA - first off the use of WIFOM is such a lame argument because basically people try and defend themselves and they are automatically accused of WIFOM

and spaghetti throwing, I just explained it earlier in the post, this is my style of play. I go after the people I think are suspiciou, I post things they say and call them out on it, in the beginning everyone is basically "spaghetti throwing" When a townie is lynched day one, all the comments made about that person being scum IMO was spaghetti thrown on the wall and it stuck enough to get them lynched.

now I may not know Xite's definition of spaghetti throwing but to me

it is making accusations towards people with no real evidence OR pointing out things people say and calling them scum tells.

Xite has done this with frank, wraith, and myself. Frank was town so his spaghetti throwing sucks there, Wraith claims nilla townie which we won't know till he eventually dies, I am making a full 100% declaration that I am town(because I am) so the stuff Xite is throwing my way is spaghetti

so if you think Spaghetti throwing is scum, there are people in this game throwing more than me.

now I am not going after Xite cause right now I don't think he is the play. I think Wraith may be scum but he claimed VT, this is not Day 1 so I am less likely to lynch a VT if there are better candidates available and I believe we have 2 right now (Mysterio and Poorchaz)

I have done plenty of scum hunting this game, my reasoning of why I think people are scum may not be agreed upon by some of you, I have done more to try and scum hunt than some of these other players. if scum hunting and trying to get people to talk more is scummy, again I apologize but that is how I play.

A) Self-meta is rarely useful (and a lot of times ignored). Try a new strategy
Okay, so all the striked-out words are where you're just plain wrong and need to read.

Definition of Spaghetti Throwing: Where a player will throw out points about what people did but not say if or why it is scummy or townie. Most of the time, these people will do so to a great number of players, if not all of them.

This is scummy because it's an easy way to sit on the fence about anything. When someone gets attacked based off of those things that the spaghetti-thrower threw out there, the spaghetti-thrower will ride off of that attack, saying that they pointed out the same thing. If he gets attacked for attacking a townie that has flipped, then he will be able to say that, no he did not attack that townie, and will ask people to point out where he did, and they will not be able to.

Get it? I even bolded it and made it different colors to make sure that you could see it.

B) Or he was just finally able to get to this game? IIRC he WAS V/LA. Also, maybe he mentioned you because you're in the spotlight? Yeah, that could be something.

C) If you were really reading the thread, you might see that I did comment on your godfather idea (which I think I said was REALLY stupid)

D) Do... do you

know

what WIFOM is?

Okay, how many games have you played? And please be honest. This is actually an important question.

1. Faulty logic is faulty - the "if you are this than he is this" has failed many times in almost every game, also I won't flip scum so even more faulty
2. I have seen it time and time again, mafia is accused and they don't deny, they try and discredit the info or deflect away from it. So I'm sticking my MY experiences
3. You should be making new cases or commenting on other bandwagons already formed and not broadcase "oh I'll hammer him if I have to" seems scummy to me
4. This close to deadline it isn't worth starting yet another bandwagon, I think you play scummy but would not suprise me if you are just a VI this game or your reads are just wrong. Also I already voted mysterio after your gambit(scummy) so going to him is no biggie for me either, I feel with that question asking if Kise did any reamsearch (code for do you have proof?) that makes him more suspicious to me
5. So if you are NK can we assume you are scum? (btw I have seen more mafia make that statement than I have seen town)
6. It was not me who told the cop who to investigate, it was singer, I just agreed with her. I don't care who the cop investigates

1) Uhm... no? If you look at the way you did things, I have my reasons for thinking those things, and even if you were town, a flip from you would actually help me greatly at this point. not to mention, it has worked a great number of times from when I've seen it
2) And I've seen town react the SAME EXACT WAY to such a ridiculous claim. Hell, I would chuckle a bit and say the same thing.
3) So, I should be looking anywhere but at you? Lol
4) Anything's possible if you try... but wait, you have to convince other people, and scumhunting is just so hard for scum to do isn't it?
5) From your next post, you say you mean aren't, and no, but I was saying not to direct the cop. Also, I was saying that if he wants, then fine, investigate me, but don't make it public, because then bad things will happen.
6) I was saying that to the whole playerset.

Xite, do you have any completed scum games? Can I have a link if so?

Newbie game FTW
Emotional Breakdown
As you can see, I'm a very angry scum player

[Xite91]

Wraith, if deadline approaches, will you self-hammer (or vote, if you don't have enough votes to be at L-1) if no one else does?

Might as well.

Strangely enough, this makes me less inclined to believe that Wraith is scum. All the more reason to get moar votes on Robbie plox

[Xite91]

A) Uhm, okay? I don't care, and probably no one else does either. That is why self-meta fails. Try another strategy. Wait didn't I already say that?
In regards to spaghetti throwing - How is that wrong? You didn't say how and you honestly look like you're just trying to discredit anything that shows that you're scum. And by discredit, I do not mean disprove, I mean honestly say it's wrong and hope people leave it at that. That is a scum-tactic. Also, that whole scum like to do this thing you've got going on? That's WIFOM. I will have a full definition of that one at the bottom of this post for your viewing pleasure. Why aren't my points valid scumpoints? Go ahead and prove them wrong (instead of just saying, oh you're wrong) and I'll back off.
B)Okay, what does that have to do with anything? Not everyone is you. I don't have internet on my phone, and probably neither does mystie, not everyone is you. Keep that in mind.
C) I gave my reasons for why it was stupid. You need to go back and read instead of being lazy and noisy, it's annoying and diluting the thread and kind of pissing me off, if you weren't so scummy, I'd just ask to policy lynch you at this point.
D) Do you even know what it stands for? Because honestly, you're REALLY not getting it.
In regards to how many games you've played - Okay, 45? Then you should know how to play and you have no excuse for your bad play/use of terms and so on. Which means you are playing the VI more than actually being VI... hmmm
1) Or, how about I see for myself because I don't believe that's the case?
2) Please don't start this with me. It's faillogic and should be cut off at the base.
3) First, considering more than just I have mentioned wanting to lynch you? Honestly, those people should get their votes on you at least until it gets close to deadline, and you can see just how much support we have. Your point 1. Learn WIFOM, point 2. Learn to read, without bias and with complete open-mindedness. You'll go places.
4) Do you even look at what you're responding to before you respond? Make a full case against me plox, not just little things that I can't fight against a) because they're all packed together and it's hard to discern one from the next and b) because this is full of gut more than anything else. Also, what about faking a daykill is scummy? I've seen it done so many times, by scum AND by town. Again, it's what we call null.
5) When I'm cop I always target my biggest town reads. Those are the ones you need to look out for.
6) Lol, did you read the link? Did you even click it? It had nothing to do with someone being scummy.
This is the last thing I am going to direct your way and than I will go about playing the game and stop beating a dead horse which both of us seem to be doing.

1. Do you realize that by faking the day kill on wraith, It looked like you were actually trying to get people off his bandwagon? Also when that didn't work you just unvoted him saying you did not think he was scummy anymore, you don't think that was scummy? You than go after me, a vocal player that some would call me a VI, because I am easier to attack and make look like scum even when they are not(sort of like what you did to frank) ALSO the comment you made about "you will hammer wraith" first what makes you so special you get to be the one to hammer him IF he even gets lynched and second that sounds SO much like mafia giving up on his partner and wants to make sure he gets in a vote to lynch him if he is indeed getting lynched. (this is how I interpreted the whole situation so I would like your explanation based on how I see your actions and no tap dancing around it)

2. I would like you to post 3 TRUE examples of my WIFOM, 3 TRUE examples of me spaghetti throwing, and also I want you to post 3 posts to me of 100% classic scum slips that you think I have made.

3. I would like you to focus on the 3 current bandwagons since we are so close to the deadline, if the next day you want to start a bandwagon on me, that is your prerogative but today the goal is to get a lynch before the deadline and there are 3 people with wagons and 2 solid cases for both of them (more solid than the case you are trying to make on me)

1) Uhm, I don't care? I did what I felt was necessary. What exactly do you want me to say? I've been as transparent as possible if you can't tell. Try to read the game before posting.
2) I might get around to this, but I'm too lazy to care right now considering I made A WHOLE FRICKIN CASE AGAINST YOU.
3) Haha, no. I said who I would vote come deadline, but right now I will be focusing on you, but nice try

[Xite91]

I just found this info about Gambit according to the wiki

A Gambit is any action made to further a player's agenda.

While it's most often

used by the Mafia in hopes that the Town won't call their bluff, it's also used by Doctors and SKs to stay alive or further their purpose in the game

just thought everyone shoudl know that gambits according to wiki are more often a scum tactic. this supports my statement about Xite's gambit most likely being scum tactic since it did not help the town at all.

That bolded is where you should look at, first off. Second, please add links of these things from now on. Kthnx.
Next, I have seen it by both, and honestly, CLAIMING using a gambit out of nowhere is often a scumtactic, because then it gives them that "winning by losing" thing again.
Thing is, it's obvious that my gambit was going to be claimed a gambit before I even started with it, wouldn't you agree?

[Xite91]

Oh yeah, WIFOM.
(WINE IN FRONT OF ME)
Lets start with this, have you ever seen the princess bride?
Well in that movie there's a part where two of the guys are sitting at a table with two wine glasses
One guy has poisoned one of the glasses, and the other must discern which one it was and take the other, then they both drink.
Here's where the WIFOM comes into play.
The guy that poisoned the glass could be a coward, so of course he put the poison in the cup farthest from him right?
But wait, he could have thought I would think that and put it in front of me...
But what if he thought I would think that?... etc etc etc
In this particular movie, though, the guy who poisoned the drink had poisoned BOTH of them, and had built up an immunity beforehand, which symbolically, is what the scum in games do.

How this ties into mafia;
Scum will do something, lets say NK someone
Then the town starts to guess who the scum are based on that.
Lets say the nk'd had voiced a lot of opinions against players A, B, and C
So at least 1 of those 3 have to be scum right?
But they might have thought we would think that, so maybe it's none of them
etc etc etc

Do you understand now?

[Xite91]

@Robbie

When did I say that was scummy? (lynching a claimed VT). I would like either a link or a quote plox. Also, my wanting to lynch a claimed VT was for a reason. My speculation on him being town depended partially on him being a PR, so him claiming VT shuts down my theory.
89) Did I vote? Nope
93) Quote of when I said that plox, also, really I didn't say ANYTHING on why you're scummy?

*sigh*
Specifically ISO #'s 1, 2, 4&6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 19 (i love that "frank has even been scummy" part), 24, 25 (wtf??), 28, 30, 34, just want to make a quick point on 37 - one game =/= meta EVER, 38 (seeing a pattern to his wagoning), 41, 45, remember my point on 37? and, 46.

100) Oh my god, I may have lied about something that really doesn't matter to this game, and honestly, have you seen how many sites play maifa? Wanna know how many games I read up on? I can not believe you're saying it could be a lie because I can't find said game.
101) Already gave reasons
102) See 101
103)

I am super sorry I misjudged you Xite, I was going through this game thinking you actually knew your shit and how to play, but clearly I was wrong, cause I am not scum this game so you need to just backup and find somebody else to run up the tree.

I have half the mind to return the favor but I don't OMGUS vote, even if the person deserves it, and this case you do deserve it.

Wow, and you say you're not scum? I lol'd
Anyways, I do know my shit and how to play, way to try to discredit me... all because I'm making a case on you you're going to resort to insulting me? Sad.

You aren't OMGUS voting, but there's still OMGUS all over that post.

Again, reading is your thread. Or is it the understanding that's got you confused?
104) Do I really have to quote everything I say because you twist them funny?
108) Yeah, the post where I said my daykill was fake, considering that you did not know that my kill was fake YET it means you weren't reading EVERYTHING, and everywhere else I've played or read games, not reading all the posts in their entireties = scum. I don't know how true it is for newer games because you crazy kids keep saying that you aren't reading.
110-113) I didn't have enough time, new job+moving+baby on the way+cleaning+cooking+breaking a lease+etc= not a lot of time for mafia
114) Uhm.... I think you've mixed up your posts... In fact, what the fuck are you talking about?
117) I didn't add quotes and stuff because it's annoying as fuck to respond directly to the color inside a case thing. It pisses me and multiple other people off, please learn to respond in different ways
122) I didn't say you implied it, I asked if you were going to start it, again, way to twist my words
124) Wow fucking read. There was no ISO in there at all. The numbers should be enough for you to figure that out.
131) Except it wasn't a self-ISO
134) OMGUS =/= voting in most cases.
136) Okay, so what are your reasons for thinking I'm scum then? And you can't use anything having to do with I'm voting you (because that's OMGUS)
138) Hmmm.... Cuz I didn't just post links to his other games right here So what was that about you reading the game?
144) People who believe in the wagon they're on will fight for their lynch AKA push it. Your reason was that you don't see any reason not to and because he's done some scummy things (that you didn't point out... weren't you just saying something about me with that whole thing?)
148) You need to learn to write too. I didn't understand that first part AT ALL. Where are those reasons? And please don't use that godfather shit, because that's exactly what it is. Please, give me these links? Also, I had reasons why you were scummy, I just thought posting your posts and saying they were scummy was enough because they were obvious, also I MADE A CASE AGAINST YOU, so that point is now null, and I gave reasons for getting off the Wraith reasons AS I DID IT. Wow, again, READ PLOX

Wait, what happened to focusing on the top three wagons? Weird that you want me to hold to that, but won't do so yourself.

every thing you said in the beginning you just responded back with your own opinions, you say things are wrong but don't post VALID explanations why they are wrong, other than "cause I say they are" and you don't post examples of it basically nullifying any argument you may have had

1) Uhm, I don't care? I did what I felt was necessary. What exactly do you want me to say? I've been as transparent as possible if you can't tell. Try to read the game before posting.
2) I might get around to this, but I'm too lazy to care right now considering I made A WHOLE FRICKIN CASE AGAINST YOU.
3) Haha, no. I said who I would vote come deadline, but right now I will be focusing on you, but nice try

1. I read the game, your gambit failed, tbh I am suprised people did not decide to lynch you cause of it. you caused this day to drag on longer than it should, we were close to lynching wraith and now we are approaching deadline
2. such an easy way to say, I don't really want to try and fabricate information, I would rather just make up lies
3. this close to deadline, focusing on my is pointless and is not helping the town, I hope people realize this

Uhm... ok? I don't recall just giving my opinion, unless the point was opinion-based in the first place.
1) And still close to lynching Wraith. Why is it so imperative that we lynch wraith anyways? And if it is, why did you just take your vote off him? Also, look at all the new info coming in, that's something town likes, remember?
2) nope, just don't really care enough at the moment to go back and reread your ISO AGAIN in order to find things I already pointed out.
3) this close to deadline, focusing on my is pointless and is not helping the town, I hope people realize this

[Xite91]

Someone, please summarize the thread. I have lost faith in my reading skills after my last post. And it will help Antihero and myself.

After reading Day 1 and having slept on it, I still want to lynch Xite and porochaz.

Is there a case on Wraith made on day 2? One that is not by ConfidAnon (iirc). Or is it still because of his Day 1 behavior in relation to Frank? And what did Mysterio do? Even a link would be very much appreciated.

Just ISO the two of them, and I think I made a case against Wraith, but at that point I was starting to lean town on him, so I'm not sure what it accomplished (because I was trying to remember why I was attacking wraith in the first place)
Mystie is an active lurker and what he says when he shows up is why he's scummy.
Why prozac?
Why me?

[Xite91]

It's on the previous page.

But then again, I had a few things wrong in that post, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine that you would skip it. However the impressions of you and chaz remain the same.

No I didn't skip it, just wondering if there were more reasons now.
Also, the mod is evil, just warning you now

[Xite91]

I know the mod all too well. He was the IC in my first game here.

And no, there aren't any additional reasons since I stopped reading after that post number fiasco with robb. Doing a mysterio iso now.

Oh god. I feel for ya, man.

Fair enough, but if it's not too much to ask when you finish up on catching up I'd like a case against me, prozac probably would too.

[Xite91]

First

Vote: Deadline extension

Even though I feel lynching and moving on is a better idea, some players still need to catch up.

@ Xite

1) you declaring me scum for no reason is just as scummy as voting for no reason.
2) the post where you said I am scummy because and than listed like 30 of my posts is not valid cause you can't just list posts and say they are scummy but don't explain why each post is scummy
3) the part about lying about something that doesn't matter, if you lie about something that doesn't matter you are most likely to lie about something that does
101 -

Full description on how your daykill works, Xite, if you don't mind.

It's one shot
I say Kill: XXXX
It doesn't happen until a lynch occurs, and then both of them die.
That's all it does.

Oh shit.
Just remembered that I should probably do this

Unvote, vote: robbie

won't be needing that vote on wraith anymore

I don't see a reason so again you just lied saying you gave one and you didn't

and 102 -

.

Are you serious? It's an extra lynch, basically, and you just wasted it on day 2 on a person that might be town? ::uberfacepalm::

Agreed, wasting a day kill on day 2 based on a hunch is risky

if he flipps town, just going to be bad news for Xite.

unvote

Robbie is still scum too.

My vote stays.

- again no reason so again you just lied

110-113 - excuses are excuses no way to validate them as being true
114 - I meant 116

4) and everything else I don't care what you say anymore. just the you voting and declaring me scummy with no reason is enough and than throw in the self ISO, fake gambit, and failure to scum hunt on anyone by myself and that scumhunt is casting your opinion to shut down my opinion so not really a serious effort to scum hunt.
5) i am not changing my vote on you cause I am now 100% confident you are scum and I have pointed out valid reasons
6)

I am also not going to respond to anything else you say to me so don't even waste your time typing. you are not going to change my mind, you are scum for the reasons I posted in my post earlier today and nothing you said in your rebuttle was enough to change my views.

1) Then say that, but don't put words in my mouth, because that is scummy. Also, I gave the posts, already went over this.
2) I did add some explanation in it, just not as much as you would have liked, I guess. Reread it and you might see.
3) That's really WIFOMy you know. Also, it's not true, AND I truly had seen a game where that happened, but again, I can't be bothered to go back through the like 200 games I've read (yeah I have no life ) to find it.
101) I had given some reasons before that, also you were my next choice after Wraith
102) Already gave my reasons means I gave them before that post, so no, I didn't lie, but good try.
113) Would you like a picture of the pregnancy test? How about a copy of the papers to break the lease? How about a picture of my newly cleaned and packed apartment? Will that prove it to you? Or maybe my paycheck stubs? Are you REALLY disputing real life issues? Are you that dumb?
114) I know, wanted to give you a hard time, considering you really didn't address any points in there anyways.
4) Lol, is it that you don't read, or only see what you want to believe? Cuz i'm really not sure which one at this point. Either way, you're scum. Also that last point is useless AtE and go ahead and ignore me, just means I'm right
5) Oh right, those "valid reasons" that I disproved and you're no longer talking to me for.
6) Lul

Alrighty, well it's time for everyone to be voting for Wraith or Mysterio, no ifs ands or buts. Only thing that could change this is a good old deadline extension, but I don't expect to be given one, considering how much time we've had. Just in case I die tonight, I want to say that Xite is probably scum.

Okay, first, read the thread.
Second, Why am I scum?
Third, Why am I scum if you die tonight?
Fourth, why only Wraith or Mystie?

Conclusion: somewhat scummy. But saying

"

Mystie is an active lurker and what he says when he shows up is why he's scummy.

" ~ Xite on the previous page

You asked why he was scummy, I gave my views on why he's scummy. Honestly, this is why I tell people that ask for a description when they first replace in to just go back and read, everyone interprets things differently.

Alrighty, well it's time for everyone to be voting for Wraith or Mysterio, no ifs ands or buts. Only thing that could change this is a good old deadline extension, but I don't expect to be given one, considering how much time we've had. Just in case I die tonight, I want to say that Xite is probably scum.

If and but

we got an extension

did you miss it? Xite thinks HE is gonna die tonight

I may change my vote but if I do it will be porochaz, IMO out of the 3 he is most scummy

We did not get an extension. Nice fail there

I seem to recall it having something to do with IF everyone directs the cop at me I will die tonight, but eh.

Wait, what happened to;

i am not changing my vote on you cause I am now 100% confident you are scum and I have pointed out valid reasons

Alrighty, well it's time for everyone to be voting for Wraith or Mysterio, no ifs ands or buts. Only thing that could change this is a good old deadline extension, but I don't expect to be given one, considering how much time we've had. Just in case I die tonight, I want to say that Xite is probably scum.

1) Uh, you're not dieing tonight.

2) @Shanba, Wraith hasn't acted scummy? Either you are retarded town or his scum buddy.

3) Xite continuing to clutter this thread with possibly the dumbest argument I have ever seen with Robb also makes him/her/it suspicious. Flinter buddying Wraith is obvious at this point as well.

4) Anyone voting for me right now is deliberately trying to derail an obvscum wagon, cause another townie to claim, and possibly miss the deadline ending up in a no lynch. The latter two points hurts town no matter what. If another wagon on one of the players I mentioned (notably flinter and Xite) were guaranteed, I would have no problems switching from one scum wagon to another. But as it stands that seems unlikely, thus voting for anyone else right now will most likely result in a no lynch. If you're pro-town, vote Wraith now.

1) How do you know? Scumslip much?
2) He hasn't been as scummy as some people
3) How is it the dumbest argument? That doesn't make sense to me since a lot of what I say is valid. Also, how is it so obvious? Lul (Just to let you know, robbie, this is classic spaghetti throwing)
4) Oh, the old "everyone voting me is scum" trick. I love this one.

1) And I know i'm in the minority but I'd much rather NL than mislynch, let the cop(s) investigate more

2) worse case lynching another claimed VT in wraith would be okay just cause of the deadline(we don't know if wraith is telling the truth about being VT anyway)

3) the fact Xite tried to kill his bandwagon makes me curious as to why.

1) Do not even hint at NL until later on in the game.
2) There's a quote I want to find of you to attack you for this, but considering you've decided you're gonna ignore me, I guess I won't.
3) Maybe I didn't try to kill it? Maybe I was trying to see reactions? Also, maybe just maybe when I decided to attack you it was because you are FAR MORE SCUMMY than Wraith?

[Xite91]

@Robb, the votes on me are due mostly because of inactivity. A terribly stupid excuse to derail the wagon on Wraith. As a result, we have gotten some fairly scummy reads on the likes of Xite and flinter, and to a lesser extent Shanba. As for UA and bunnylover, the self-voting uselessness of UA and the wishy-washy non-committal play of bunnylover makes them questionable at best.

So, as a result, you're sheeping what you like of what everyone else has said about other players. I'll remember that.

1) until you vote someone else besides yourself. Keep your opinions of me typing inside the quotes to yourself

2) it is easier for ME to respond that way, you can't read it or have trouble responding to it, not MY problem

1) I and at least one other has said the same thing, and we're not voting ourselves, so yeah, hows about those opinions?
2) I give you the goddamn numbers, just go through and delete my stuff, and use the same number to write in your stuff. God, even I'm not that lazy

This post alone is better than anything wraith has said to defend himself so for now I'll give you the benefit if doubt. My vote on Xite won't go anywhere so

vote wraith

no vote for deadline extension

we have enough info to lynch somebody by Friday

Xite is trying to de-rail wraith's wagon for sone reason and the reason he gave of his ISO and meta and afraid of outing an inexperienced PR is just not convincing enough to me.

First, it's only better because you like that he's agreeing with you
Second, if you read the thread in its entirety, you might actually be convinced of things a little easier. Instead of just picking and choosing what to read

[Xite91]

Sorry, like I said, that obviously isn't as true a tell anymore because people got lazy, and when I say things in just a few words, they get twisted or misunderstood, and so on, so I explain everything to its fullest. Especially for robbie, who seems to have a hard time understanding any of what's said to him. And It's even more of a tell that someone is scum when they make a case against someone but don't read the whole rebuttal to that case, because that means they don't believe in that case as much as they should if they were town

[Xite91]

I don't agree with extending the deadline. Two players who got replaced aren't going to make the difference in finding scum at this point. All they would do if either confirm what everyone else has been saying all along, or bring in someone different, completely derailing the wagons we have now. While I admit that could be a good thing, I'd rather wait til after this lynch, so the replacements don't interrupt too much of the information we can gain from the lynch at this point. They can use the night phase to catch up. The only reason they would have to worry about not being able to catch up during that time is if they're scum who need time to strategize after having caught up using/wasting our time.

But we can get information on if they're scum based on their reactions to the wagons when someone flips.

[Xite91]

I don't agree with extending the deadline. Two players who got replaced aren't going to make the difference in finding scum at this point. All they would do if either confirm what everyone else has been saying all along, or bring in someone different, completely derailing the wagons we have now. While I admit that could be a good thing, I'd rather wait til after this lynch, so the replacements don't interrupt too much of the information we can gain from the lynch at this point. They can use the night phase to catch up. The only reason they would have to worry about not being able to catch up during that time is if they're scum who need time to strategize after having caught up using/wasting our time.

+1

the new guys can just run a quick iso on ther people who have wagons and vote that way, ISO only takes 30 minutes maybe and hour to really go through per person

I only have one thing to say to this...

?

[Xite91]

It took me roughly 90 mins to 2 hours to go through page 30 onwards and even then, I was eventually missing out Xites posts.

your not missing much, he speaks without saying anything of value

he claims he makes valid arguments but in the end he just combats opinions with opinions and if you don't agree with his than you are scum.

Of course I do do you read anything I write?

Seriously, anything? I mean, I've made points based on TELLS you gave. Wow. I'm seriously about done with this game

[Xite91]

I already said I am done responding to you, clearly your reading comprehension fails also. I even put it in pretty blue wording so it would stand out.

Which is scummy in itself, fair enough, I'll just start doing what you're doing, not listening to you but throwing every bit of bad info I can to the rest of the town about you.

Okay, first, read the thread.
Second, Why am I scum?
Third, Why am I scum if you die tonight?
Fourth, why only Wraith or Mystie?

I lol'd. Tomorrow, I will answer your second question. As in, D3. The third question does not apply, because I never said that, and the fact that you don't know the answer to the fourth question shows that your first sentence was hypocritical. Oops.

Why tomorrow? Why not right now? If this is you breadcrumbing that you're going to investigate me, I swear to god they'd better lynch you tomorrow when I get nk'd, because that'd make it so frickin obvious that you're scum.
No, you didn't say that, but it was heavily implied, and if you die tonight, then how the hell will you answer my question?
Nope, just not going to go back and see what you said about them, because IIRC, you didn't say much today except some really bad points and some "I agree with so-and-so"'s. I want YOUR reasons as to why only those two, not everyone else's

You either assume the doc will protect you, or you're scum. Huh...

You're forgetting that it's not likely for scum to hit a claimed doc unless people are actually following him for more than a few days, right? Because people start to wonder why they aren't the NK, and then they lynch them based on WIFOM. It's really a common thing.

[Xite91]

EPICFLAIL

*sigh*
Specifically ISO #'s 1, 2, 4&6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 19 (

i love that "frank has even been scummy" part

), 24, 25 (wtf??), 28, 30, 34, just want to make a quick point on 37 - one game =/= meta EVER, 38 (

seeing a pattern to his wagoning

), 41, 45, remember my point on 37? and, 46.

There ya go.

where are ANY valid reasons in here? in fact where is a single reason? just saying post 1 is scummy is not a reason. you need to say WHY and point to a specific scum tell as to why it is scummy which you fail to do. don't waste your time now cause backtracking isn't gonna help anyone now.

First off, specific reasons bolded, second, read my WHOLE CASE on you, it shows why these things are scummy.

1. Flip flopped on frank less than 10 minutes apart
2. Providing my own opinions/theories on how I see things and how I think mafia tends to act
3. Wanting to lynch VT on day 1
4. Saying wicked must be scum if wraith is scum

1) Right
2) Wrong
3) Right&Wrong
4) Wrong

Again, it might save you time to just go back and read my case on you, here I'll even give you a link
Case on you

Tomorrow and not right now because I do not want to make a fullblown case on you from scratch today when I would already be fine with lynching the two main wagons. It might divert attention from Wraith, which you already tried to do.
I didn't even impy that, I just said that I wanted to tell people that you are scum because I might not get a chance to do that tomorrow (I might be dead).
You misunderstood completely. The reason that I am saying to vote for one of them is found in the exact same part of the thread you told me to read: the votecount.

If you die, no one will see your reasons for why I am scummy, and honestly I don't feel it will derail anything at this point, just post it and point out that you don't want it too heavily looked at until tomorrow, unless you don't ACTUALLY have anything on me.
Okay, fair enough
But do you feel either of them are scum? And there IS attention on other players, which is another reason I asked

WHY would he start a wagon, abandon it and try to start a new wagon against somebody new.

Okay, WIFOM time because this is getting ridiculous. I told you I'd use it. And it probably will get ugly.

Way I see it, here's the different scenarios to the me/wraith situation,
1) We are both scum
2) I am scum and he is town
3) I am town and he is scum
4) We are both town

1) We are both scum and I decide to bus my partner for town creds.
-Why would I randomly stop bussing him to attack another player if my town creds are assured?
--Possible reasons
The wagon was going south (But was it? nope)
There was a more likely lynch of a townie (nope)

Keep in mind that there was only mild suspicion on him in the first place, so it would be stupid to try bussing him that early anyways.

2) This would be the only likely me-scum scenario. There was mild suspicion on him, and I saw a good vantage point to get him lynched, but the same question arises
-Why would I randomly stop bussing him to attack another player if my town creds are assured?
--Possible reasons
The wagon was going south (But was it? nope)
There was a more likely lynch in general (nope)

Again, pulling that gambit would have just cause a lot of unnecessary attention and I would not have done it if the lynch was assured, which it was. Thing is, I would have gotten WAY more attention if Wraith DID flip town and I suddenly flip-flopped on him, so as scum I would have just coasted along, no?

3) We have to see his flip to really know this one (duh)
-Why would I stop attacking him?
--Possible reasons
I didn't think he was scum anymore (check)
I found a much more likely scum candidate (check)

4) This is the scenario I believe is going on, but again, we need a flip.
-Why would I stop attacking him?
--Possible reasons
I didn't think he was scum anymore (check)
I found a much more likely scum candidate (check)

Can you think of anything different?

So one of your scum buddies gonna take me out? Cause I won't be lynched

I really like this sentence. It's so overconfident, like that smile the wolf gets right before he eats little red riding hood.

If I die it will be because mafia or sk kills me. Vig would be stupid to shoot me and I won't be lynched

Wait! I called it. This looks a lot like "town will lose without me" IF there is a vig, it would be hilarious if you hit robbie (no this is NOT me directing you, it is me being highly amused)

The Mysterio bandwagon only needs four more people. @Kise, UltimaAvalon, Xite91, & My Milked Eek - Can you guys join the Mysterio bandwagon?

Considering it, because I feel that he's way more likely scum than wriath

[Xite91]

@xite. That is not a town will lose without me

vig killing a pro town player is stupid

but nothing about you is pro-town at this point

[Xite91]

Once again Xite your reasons are not valid and purely opinion based

I thought you were done responding to me?
Also, they're not opinion based, they're tell based, some based off of opinions, yes, but others off of pure information. Get you facts straight, then accuse me of things

[Xite91]

Once again Xite your reasons are not valid and purely opinion based

I thought you were done responding to me?
Also, they're not opinion based, they're tell based, some based off of opinions, yes, but others off of pure information. Get you facts straight, then accuse me of things

My facts on you are not opinion , they are true scum traits

2 times you say I'm scummy for no reason-

null

fake day kill -

null

jump off your own wagon when it gets too big-

gave you reasons why town is more likely to do this

going after who I think is scum instead of who I think is the likely lynch

-

town trait

Do you even read what I write? I mean, did I ask you any of that? And did you even respond to what I said?
Anyways, lets retry that. Bolded is what should have been said.

[Xite91]

]
my facts on Xite are legit facts, you of course side with him no surprise there.

I don't need to defend anything cause

I have done nothing

wrong

except call Xite out as scum.

Bolded + Underlined.

Anyways, I have pointed out what you have done wrong, and now you are flailing like crazy, you are so obvscum it hurts that people don't see it.

[Xite91]

Wickedestjr - Mason - Killed Night Two

The second death was not as much wicked as it was...magical.

Benmage - Mafia Roleblocker - Killed Night Two

I say we just no kill every day and let mafia/other prs kill themselves off /joking

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

Because there's obviously more than one pr and mafia would attack someone more likely to cause a problem? I mean, they're counting on people to do exactly what you're doing so that they can have town get rid of the cop. I'm still not too sure that dana is a cop, because if there' only one scumgroup then he would definitely know that he would get an inno on me. That being said I think I know who's killing scum, don't worry I won't tell

You've been tunneling on Porochaz for ages, with what I see as a sequence of poor cases. Today's kill is going to be Wraith, and I'll tell you why. Because, IF Wraith is town, no mafia in their right mind would NK him. He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

So... you're trying to get wraith killed because.... he won't die any other way? How does that say he's scum?

Major FoS: Gorrad

Also,

Vote; Robbie

It

was

obvious I was going to do that right?

[Xite91]

@Shanba, I have to read 1538 later, but the only real scum feeling I get from him is a gut one based on how he talks... I really can't vote him for that just yet

[Xite91]

@Xite: I think you misunderstood him. I believe he was saying, people are going to constantly be voting against Wraith, which will allow scum to have a bigger chance of lynching someone else they want gone. If we continue to allow Wraith to live, he is going to continue be a thorn in our side, until someone find out his role.

So then should we lynch you next?

vote poro

. I was so hoping to be still alive and able to do this. I don't like the coasting at all yesterday.

But I though you

invented

that?

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

If I was a mafia role-blocker, I wouldn't block dana, because people already don't believe him. This needs to stop being discussed and left for another day, because it's diluting the thread and pointless. Dana really aught not be the kill today, honestly if people are so worried about him, then maybe the SK/vig should just take him out. If he flips scum, then I will gladly take my lynch if that's how you feel things should happen (of course, by you I mean the town, not you robbie, cuz you're scum.)
But right now, the right lynch is definitely robbie.

I actually like this logic,

however because it is coming from you I am reluctant to do this

but since I was the one who originally pointed out the role-blocking I am comfortable doing this

Vote dana

Bolded. Not the first time you've done this. Nice way to discredit him
Underlined. And then you go and try to show us how townie you are?
Wow. Color added so everyone gets this part.

The problem with that is that the claimed cop refuses to investigate me when he has the chance and then wants to lynch me. I think it's pretty clear what the scum setup probably is: Goon, Roleblocker, Godfather. Maybe a second goon or dana being ScumCop. First, votecount analysis:

First, your VCA is terrible, just want to point that out. That being said, I did notice the robbie second to last thing on the last one, which IIRC he was not so for that lynch, so I will see what changed his mind...

Second, again NO SANE MAFIA PLAYER WOULD BLOCK THE TERRIBLY SCUMMY CLAIMED COP FOR THE VERY WIFOM REASONS YOU GUYS ARE USING TO THINK HE'S SCUM. EVERYONE VOTING FOR DANA RIGHT NOW IS PLAYING RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS

Responding to the next few posts in another post so it's easier on the eyes and maybe people will actually read them...

[Xite91]

Why are you so sure that scum has a Roleblocker? I don't know why anyone would assume this and then vote me because if it. As I mentioned above, there could easily be a busdriver instead.

Yanno, reading the thread does some wonders...

The WIFOM content of the debate about dana not getting blocked or killed is reaching toxic levels.

QFFUCKINGT

I am sure dana is on his mafia qt right now saying FUCK I didn't know the roleblocker died, what do we do now guys.

Except I'm curious how you know that scum has daytalk...

When I am a roleblocker for the bad guys, I make damn sure the first claimed power role is blocked until somebody better comes along and THIS is why I am voting you.

now I have to wonder about your inno on Xite, is that a ploy to earn town cred with him or is he your scum buddy. nobody will know for sure until the real cop comes forward, which I am sure they won't cause there is no doctor. <insert facepalm here>

Well, you're not exactly the uh... best of players according to what I've seen, so I would totally expect you to play like that. But you're playing with the big boys, the ones that really think out what the town would say to each kill/block/etc and therefore do the one that will get the most attention on townies as possible, especially PR townies.

I'm not even going to respond to that last bit, as it's full of throwing spaghetti, WIFOM, and a bit of guilt tripping all in one.

He begins putting out seeds of doubt on Wickedest, the most obvtown player in the game, solely for defending me.

Not really in the mood to respond to the rest of this as it's full of faillogic and a bunch of WIFOM, but I did feel the need to point something out real quick.
JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE SAID SOMEONE WAS TOWN DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE THE MOST OBVTOWN PLAYER IN THE GAME. I HAD A LOT OF SUSPICION OF WICKED, SO HE WASN'T OBVTOWN TO ME, AND APPARENTLY NOT TO A FEW OTHERS EITHER. Sorry, just had to point out to wraith that his opinion is not truth and law.

Almost nobody doubted the cop claim Day 1.

I think you need to reread D1

Also, again, they leave him be so that this will happen, but kill DP to make us do this more. It's called WIFOM, please stop using it. I'm getting tired of sorting through it and having to add to it. Thank you.

In short, the smart N1/D2 action by the scumteam would have been:

Kill Wicked or Xite

Roleblock Dana

Mislynch DP

DP would have been an easy target to mislynch Day 2. I'm confident he would have died before page 40. Xite and Wicked were the most obvtown players Day 1. Dana was the more believable claimed cop. Summary: Scumteam isn't too bright, dana is obvscum. If he was really pro-town, he wouldn't be alive right now.

So much bad in this post.
Wicked was not obvtown.
I was DEFINITELY not obvtown. I honestly expected to be lynched after the whole frank fiasco.
And DP would not have been the lynch of the day, because he would have gone along about the same way bunny is doing right now.

Again, moving on to another post to make it easy on the eyes

[Xite91]

NOW if I recall, Xite never voted for dana on day 1 to me is yet another red flag.

Then vote and attack me, stop trying to see if there's still enough people suspicious of me to get a wagon on me. This is spaghetti throwing. And you've already done it twice just today, with just me.
Also, I never voted him because I found other people to be scummier.

OHMYGODROBBI'MGOINGTOFUCKINGKILLYOU

1)

Not funny

Because there's obviously more than one pr and mafia would attack someone more likely to cause a problem?

I mean, they're counting on people to do exactly what you're doing so that they can have town get rid of the cop

. I'm still not too sure that dana is a cop, because if there' only one scumgroup then he would definitely know that he would get an inno on me. That being said I think I know who's killing scum, don't worry I won't tell

2)

your rationale makes no damn sense and just makes me think more and more that you are scum. there is NO WAY the mafia roleblocker is not going to block the cop, they don't want to take the chance of him actually hitting one of them and outing a mafia. I am sorry this just adds more scum points on your side.

3)

yes I think gorrad has a point, why would mafia ever NK wraith when he is always going to be suspect number 1 for the town. Now I am willing to bet if dana really is a mafia member, than I would expect wraith to be NKd because he is not useful to the mafia anymore. If (and I am saying IF) the situation plays out and dana is scum, most likely Xite would be scum too and THAT is the reason he tried to stop the lynch on him. Keep him alive to look like the VI and divert attention onto other people who are also playing like VI.

yeah it was obvious you line up your lynches which is another tell of scum. I'm sorry I don't believe dana is cop anymore and his clearing you is out the window in my opinion.

if it turns out you actually are town Xite, you are playing far worse than what you have accused me of playing. You are doing nobody any good right now.

1) Uhm... to damn bad?
2) Bolded to show you why you're a dumbass when it comes to this game.
3) Just one word; Whatthefuck?

@Mod; Sorry if that was a bit too much, will tone it down from now on if necessary

Scum died N1. Therefore, scum know they're not the only kill. Therefore, they'd read the gorram opening post.

I think the fact that Dana's still alive is a huge load of WIFOM. I'm not going to fall for it.

This whole post was full of o-my-god-thank-you-someone-finally-gets-it's but these two lines were the biggest parts of it.

[Xite91]

I can almost guarantee I was investigated for these reasons.
1) I'm loud, and people actually respond to my reasoning, most of the time in a "I agree" kind of way, which is great if I'm town, but if I'm scum, it'd be better to get an investigation on me because otherwise town are just going to be blindly following scum.
2) Apparently, faking a daykill is incredibly scummy.
3) If I am scum, wraith is probably scum as well, so investigating him is not really necessary if I turn up scum.
4) I am the kind of cop that I investigate my strongest town reads instead of my strongest scumreads, this could be another reason if he does the same thing (if he thinks I'm obvtown)
5) If he thinks I'm scummy, that's another viable reason to investigate me.
6) It is very unlikely for me to have been NK'd tonight (partially because I said I thought I'd be the NK and partially because I have drawn some suspicion on myself), and very unlikely for me to be bussed or anything to that effect, so it's not likely for anything to mess with his investigation of me.

Honestly, I would have picked me or gorrad in his situation. But that's just me.

[Xite91]

But I can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing from dana, so

Do you have anything tangible, or just a feeling?

Distancing... that IS the tangible part of it. The way you're acting towards him seems like distancing to me. It's a common scum tactic D1.

1) He meant he wants you to explain how it is distancing. Obviously, distancing is a scumtell, but if you just FEEL like it's distancing, it means absolutely nothing.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes. Vote: danakillsu

Mod, votecount please.

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

Oh, by the way, Wraith is also scum.
There are so many textbook tells in just that post. Just sayin.

2) I disagree. This relies entirely on the fact that your reads are correct, which they could easily be not.

Okay, so my scum list

Frank
Wraith
Bunny

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana
Jdodge
Hiphop

3) Frank was obviously wrong, Wraith is just bad at this game, Bunny seems like crappy town or a mandatory policy lynch, Dana is obvscum, I'm obvtown, and no read on Hip-Hop.

Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it without voting anyone makes me think you're looking for a reaction

4) I love this guy.

1) There's no way to explain it? The way they were reacting looked like scum distancing. That was all I could make of it.
2) How does him having given plenty of textbook tells have anything to do with my other reads? Just wonderin
3) Lulz yeah, he was just bad... I feel wraith is probably the same, bunny is a really awful kind of null, dana is a different kind of awful kind of null, you say that cuz it's you but right now I have no real evidence otherwise because that was a gut read, hip-hop is also null at this point... so yeah, all of those reads are iffy right now, and I'm working more on seeing how robbie flips while I keep my eye on a few others, this list included
4) Not sure how to take this...

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

Then vote me. I have said "when you flip scum" to at least 2 players. Go back and see for yourself. That was seriously an awful vote

[Xite91]

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

I lol'd. I was just making a point that he's not the only one that has done that (I think robbie has too, and a few other people, it's a common phrase, especially on this site)

I just got engaged...that is all for now.

Awww congrats!

[Xite91]

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Xite's iso: Roughly 3,000 words.

War and Peace: Roughly 560,000 words.

I'm helpful : )

Damn, only 3000? I'm seriously slacking...
I will try to step it up, though

[Xite91]

If D2 isn't nearly as shit, I may be willing to do ^that for it. But since we lynched a doctor, I'm guessing it's equally shit.

4) yeah basically d2 is shit, quick unbiased summary

Xite starts bandwagon on wraith
wraith overreacts
Xite fake daykills wraith
Xite leaves wraith's bandwagon citing meta as primary reason
Xite starts coming after me
5) I return the favor (the part in here is where I will put in my own opinion that I think my case on him is better than his case on me)
people are unsure which bandwagon to get on, the one for Wraith is solid but slowly people jump over to mysterio
citing deadline reasons (when people are actually requesting a deadline) Bunny decides to hammer without letting mysterio claim.

end unbiased summary

6) I will say that my vote probably looks sketchy on mysterio but because I had originally voted him and made a case for him after the fake day kill I feel my vote was justified, I shoudl have been more aware of what the vote count was cause I put him at L-1 letting Bunny hammer.

ok here are a few thoughts

1. with people requesting the deadline bunny's vote looks VERY bad. we had people requesting an extension and mysterio on L-1, why would he not let him claim
2. earlier in the game bunny mentions what if there is a mafia roleblocker, for some reason this comment strikes me as off especially since we know there is one now.

FOS Bunnylover

4) Only because you almost got caught right?
5) Lies. Yours was full of mostly AtE a bit of spaghetti throwing, and even some WIFOM. Mine was full of facts and classic scumtells. Clearly, if we were opposing lawyers, I would have got the guy put in prison.

Also, you missed A LOT in there. You really need to start reading the whole game instead of just some of what relates to you.

@Replacee (I forgot who replaced... sawwie) I would suggest to just play today off of today while slowly catching up on D2 while you can. Maybe even wait until another night phase if you have to. I would say to ISO me, robbie, gorrad, poro and shanba if you have time, because IIRC we're the ones that added a lot of content to the game (most of what everyone else did was comment here and there on the stuff we were adding) Wraith would be another good one, considering he came under a lot of suspicion.

6) I'm going to go back and do an analysis on your posts/votes later on today sometime if I have the time (I should, but we know how that goes)

Your last parts
1. you do mean deadline extension right? The one everyone was deciding to give up on. Bunny's vote DOES look bad, and I WILL be looking at it, but you really can't say it's because people were asking for an extension, because just as many people (if not more) were saying the day needed to end.
2. In a large game especially, mafia roleblockers are very common. Hell, I had one in a newbie 12(IIRC - if not less) player game.

[Xite91]

sonofa-
Anyways, this was supposed to be on the top of that other post, but I hit submit before thought came through, so here's the other part of that post...

but yet they are both equally as boring and uninteresting to read.

@Xite I don't know if they have day talk abilities but I have been mafia 2 times on this site and both time I had day talk abilities and on the other site I play as mafia I have ALWAYS had day talk abilities, so assuming they have day talk abilities in this game isn't that far of a reach. That is one of the advantages mafia has, the ability to communicate with each other and set up their plan.

I have also learned to basically ignore all of your responses because none of them actually make any sense, and why would I vote you when I am pretty sure dana is scum, but if others would rather lynch you first I am more than happy to start that bandwagon.

The problem is lynching you doesn't prove if dana is good or bad, lynching dana and finding out he is scum will give us a better idea of things.

Clearly, you've never read the book

What were the games? I have never seen a game with day talk, so I would appreciate seeing this. Also, this is something I could definitely seeing the mod confirming end-game

My responses don't make sense? Hold on, I have a quote for that, I'll point it out later.

So... you'll uh... attack and lynch the claimed cop suddenly when everyone else is doing it, because it will get you what information exactly?

1. Well since I originally thought he was scum, it isn't an attempt to discredit him but more of a "I can't believe he is saying this" kind of vibe
2. WOW you are reaching to the point of not making sense. how is that trying to look town? do you not get that I thought Wraith is scum so I am making that statement to clarify that my vote on dana isn't because of Wraith's vote, it is because I was actually contemplating doing it when I first pointed out the roleblocker.
3. your logic on the roleblocker is totally wrong,

don't you think dana would look more suspicious if he came back each day claiming to be role-blocked

? personally I would.

If cop is coming back

with innocents I would not lynch him

, but now cop is coming back

with results after it is confirmed there is a mafia role blocker makes me suspect dana of lying.

I have seen a game where dana lied about being a power role early on a game and makes it to about day 7 before getting lynched, he pulls this stuff and he is quite convincing so I am not falling for it.

1) Considering you HAVE DONE THIS BEFORE, I'm reluctant to believe that's true. It looks a lot more like you trying to distance yourself from someone while still agreeing with him. I dunno, maybe when you do flip scum I'll see about a wraith lynch...
2) No, the fact that you're doing the EXACT definition of spaghetti throwing is what's getting me. And you're trying real hard to look protown while doing it.
3) bolded. Nope
Italicized and underlined. Didn't I tell you I'd have a quote for that? Where in any place EVER does that make sense? It's honestly just a whole lot of words with a whole lot of nothing in between.

[Xite91]

@x go look at the 2 games I was mafia, beleive one was a newbie game, we could talk via PM and white flag mafia we had a qt and were allowed to day talk.

The rest I can't respond to on my phone But no I never read war and peace just like I don't read most of your posts. They eventually got to the point where it became faulty logic and baseless accusations.

You may have quoted them before, but I really don't want to go back and find them, can I have links? It's very odd that you would talk via PM instead of via QT, I would definitely like to see this. Your other site doesn't count here because you haven't given any proof of it even existing.

How do you know what they end up being if you never read them? That's a very interesting comment.

1) No mention of benmage-scum. Just a simple continuation of what he has said yesterday. Plus that the argument he uses is a bad one. As long as there were two wagons the previous day, one could always use this argument to make a continuation of the previous idea. Nothing says that one of the wagons had to be on scum.

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

2) This, although Robbnva is certainly not high on my townlist, is a good post. If dana is scum, Robbnva certainly isn't.

From a scum point of view, yes it is smart to kill the person who has a history of fake-claiming.
Why? Look how things are playing out.
Do I get why Dana is been allowed to invistigate? A little. In my eyes its more suspicious for a claimed cop to be allowed to investigate then to have him obviously roleblocked.
How would his counter claim be called out in D2 if no one believed DP claimed?

3) And here we have bunnylover explaining (his) scumkills.

FoS bunny

1) Please tell me this is an attack. I'd really like a good laugh.
2) How is it a good post exactly? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Although I do see that if Robbie's scum, dana probably isn't, I can't so much figure the other way around. How are you so sure?
3) Uhm what? No, what that was was bunny playing the WIFOM game. Which we ALL have (and kind of need to stop)

This is a very poor reason for a vote, and smells like scum panicking to me.

IGMEOY DH

@Xite: Your WIFOM is giving the scumteam waaaay too much credit IMO. The fact that they killed DP instead of someone less easy to mislynch really lowered my expectations of their capabilities.

I kind of saw something similar

I don't think I'm giving them too much credit, I think they're a bit smarter than you want to believe.

1. This makes no sense to me at all, how is me speculating what Dana is doing seem like him and I are buddy buddy?

2. This is an obvious following Xite instead of making your own case

3. Your entire vote history has lacked merit, not once do you make a case on anyone you vote for

1) Why is it that nothing makes sense to you?
2) No it's not, he added his own content, my case on you is based on your play throughout all of day2 and today.
3) I agree with this one here
Your whole set of points here looks a lot like bussing to me...

Anyone who is voting dana just because he's not dead/hasn't been blocked is doing so for a really bad reason. There's too much WIFOM!

PS - I'm with Robb in that it's a little weird that Bunny is "more than sure" of a mafia RB. Yes, it is a fairly standard role, but the degree of certainty is a tad high.

First part; QFT

PS - I am not. Mafia RBers are EVERYWHERE.

I'm not. Roleblockers are so common that they're in newbies and minis. There's, like, a 3% chance there wouldn't be one in a large normal.

QFT

[Xite91]

I checked the completed large normals. The first one (working backwards) with a roleblocker is mafia 107. 108 through 114 had no mafia roleblockers, and neither did 117. Mafia roleblocker is a lot less common than you guys seem to think.

Oh, weird. Every game I've been in (large, small, whatever) had a mafia RBer. Maybe I just pick the wrong games

[Xite91]

game with PM - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=600

game with QT - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54&t=15042

Your first link;

site where I play normally on a 3 different mafia private forums - http://goallineblitz.com/game/home.pl

You are a

Mafia Goon

, and are a member of the Mafia with X, a [Mafia Goon/Mafia Roleblocker]. You can talk to X at Night and also kill someone each Night. Aside from that, all you have is your word and your vote.

You win when all Pro-Town players have been eliminated (or nothing can prevent this) and at least one Pro-Mafia player is still alive.

The Game Thread is here. Please confirm in thread.

You are a

Mafia Roleblocker

, and are a member of the Mafia with Y, a Mafia Goon. You can talk to Y at Night, kill someone each Night, and also prevent someone from using a Night action at Night (i.e., roleblock them). Aside from that, all you have is your word and your vote.

You win when all Pro-Town players have been eliminated (or nothing can prevent this) and at least one Pro-Mafia player is still alive.

I could not find anything in the roles or the sample pms that said that you could day talk through PM

Your second link;

White Flag Mafia Rules

Please note three

fairly unique

rules:

1. This game uses instant night, so all action choices must be given before the thread is locked for night.

2. All votes and unvotes must be proceeded by ##. For example, ##vote: Zoraster
3. There is a posting restriction of 1000 words per post in this game.

Instant Night

1. Instant night means that all actions must be turned into the mod before the night begins. These actions may be submitted during the day or during twilight (the period between the “hammer” or majority vote and when the thread is locked for the night).
2. Twilight will end when I get to the game, so you should not count on being able to submit your action at this point.
3. You may change your night action as many times as you want during the day or twilight with no penalty.
4. If you do not submit an action before night falls, you will not perform the action. Thus, it is in your best interest to always submit an action and then change it as the day progresses.

5. Finally, please note that the mafia team has day talk abilities.

It should be obvious here that the reason you have daytalk abilities is because of the unique ruleset (it would be really hard to win as mafia if you can't talk to each other and coordinate things at all, and with instant night, well you get the picture)
Honestly, do you lack all kinds of common sense, or just most of them?

[Xite91]

1) I assume you are talking about the first part of the post. Not everything is an attack. I just hope some people would play more protown.
2) it is fresh, and he started the "why wasn't dana blocked" discussion. It is a protown post. Did you disagree?
3) You are misunderstanding me. When you start arguing why a DP kill makes sense, you are crossing the line of WIFOM. He justifies the scums kill. He even calls it smart. This has nothing to do with WIFOM. WIFOM is about: "what would scum do". Bunnylover is talking about what scum did.

and do you disagree with everything I say? Because you just ridiculed every single point of my post.

1) Yeah, I meant the first two sentences or so. Sorry, thought I deleted the rest. Okay, just had to clear that up.
2) No, it's not. WIFOM is never pro-town, especially when it's obvious something was done solely for WIFOM purposed. Him starting that discussion makes me feel like he's not so great of a scum player (AKA his scumbuddies said, "lets do this so they'll do this" and he saw that we were avoiding doing what they wanted, so he's start it up.)
3) Did scum not kill DP? What other purpose but to get us thinking "why?" would it serve? Honestly. I don't see that as a bunny scum-slip. I just feel like, if you're going to attack someone, do it for the reasons that are OBVIOUSLY scummy, instead of the ones you have to stretch. You can add those in, but you really don't have ANY other evidence as to why bunny is scum? None at all?

[Xite91]

@robbie - as for your link to the other site, I could not find forums and will not go as far as signing up for an account to find something that may or may not be true.
Papa Zito then comes into mind because IIRC, you said he was also on that site, so I will see...

@mod - is it against the rules to ask someone to confirm that robbie plays on the other site if it's game related, or is it okay to do so as long as the game itself isn't mentioned? If necessary, I well send you a sample of the pm in order to get it approved

[Xite91]

2) Cops aren't the strongest town powerrole, in fact, letting the cop live and do his thing (aka not roleblocking him) means that we open WIFOM on ourselves AND we start to "follow the cop" which means that when he DOES die, we don't know that to do next. I can guarantee scum is trying to get us to do one or the other, probably the first in this scenario. And I'm trying hard to avoid it because it does NOTHING FOR US. At best, it dilutes the thread like crazy and we lynch one scum, but have very little info to go off of tomorrow because everyone's tunneling the claimed cop. At worst, same exact thing, except he IS the town cop. Until I see a counterclaim, I have no reason to NOT believe Dana, and therefore I will. Also, think of it this way, if we keep the "cop" around a bit longer and he tells us his reads, we can get something from it when he does die whether he flips town OR scum. Oftentimes, if scum claims a cop and stays alive, he will inno a townie or two, then one of his scumbuddies, and then call guilty on a scumbuddy. A stronger form of bussing. Yes, this is VERY WIFOMY, but I'm just saying, it is more beneficial for us to keep him around right now.
3) I don't know, maybe because that was the discussion of the time? Honestly, I too believe it was a smart move on mafia's part, and have said so. Same with what they did last night. Either way, we probably don't have to worry about another scum RBer, so lets just wait and watch with dana, and move on to other players.

@EVERYONE - I would like to point out that, thought this post is huge, I would suggest reading it. It really has some controversial views that might at least get you thinking.

It's really sad that I have to take measures to make sure people actually read... just want to say that.

[Xite91]

lol. And I dare you to give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. Otherwise it is better just to take the more likely approach where Dana is just a fakeclaimed cop who stayed a life because he is mafia and the SK/VIG doesn't want to kill him and forgot to claim that he... was... roleblocked.

wait, why would dana forget such a thing if he was scum?

unvote

So... uh, you... I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Do you now believe what Dana's saying?

[Xite91]

Your post still doesn't make sense. For once, try to take this game as a game of possibilities. It makes your scumhunting more accurate.

about dana: It makes no sense whatever way you put it.

If dana was a scumbuddy of benmage, he was aware there was a mafia roleblocker, and would have claimed blocked in stead of an innocent result on David. (unless he was scared that someone else would counterclaim being blocked)
If dana is town, scum wouldn't be so stupid not to accurately block a cop. A cop which gives inno's that they'll have to kill if they don't want to make their lynchpool smaller, or who might investigate one of them.

I am taking it as a game of possibilities I'm giving you ALL the possibilities as you're only looking at the few.
Here, I'll do it this way.

Dana
-Is town
--Is a Cop
---Scum kill dana, he's a confirmed cop, they use a NK
---Scum block dana, he says he was blocked, everyone believes him and we move on
---Scum let dana do his thing, we open a huge can of WIFOM.
--Is Vanilla or another role (I have sadly seen something similar to this happen)
---Do I really need scenarios for this one?
-Is scum
--He will probably eventually give us one guilty of at least one of his scumbuddies.

What were yours again?

[Xite91]

Lol. You have 3 more possibilities:

dana gets blocked (didn't happen), dana gets killed (didn't happen), dana is vanilla (you don't actually go in to this)

. So seriously, stop acting superior. You are making a fool of yourself.


Xite, on a certain moment Dana dies. "Opens a can of wifom" means that the answers come more slowly. If dana dies on any moment now, you become confirmed town. If dana on a certain moment has more innocent results alive then townies still alive, the game is won if he is town. This means that scum can't let a cop live indefinately, as for a town the amount of information is enough on a certain moment.


and Xite, give me one game where a fakeclaimed cop claimed a guilty on his buddy. It's ridiculous.

I gave those three points... and I gave a few other points. I'm not sure what you're saying here. Also, I'm not acting superior, I was just pointing out that I AM looking at all the possibilities and the reason we were in the argument in the first place was that I was trying to show you the other possibilities. Not sure how I'm making a fool of myself.

Not really, considering that it's very little information and quite a bit of speculation. That only really dilutes the thread. But scum will readily let a cop live and get their reads so that town will do exactly what you're doing, which is why I'm saying that Dana speculation needs to stop altogether in order to get more out of today.

I will, but again, remember how many games I've read. I will give you links when I sort through them.

[Xite91]

I'm going to have a hard time answering all the questions and attacks directed at me

tonight

, but for now, just remember that me not being roleblocked is just as much WIFOM as me not dying and that the two could easily go hand in hand.

Now this IS interesting, but I'm not sure whether to call it a scumslip because that would mean that at least a few people asking him questions would also be scum with him... Eh, I'll just take it as tonight IRL for now.