Mini 1030 - White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Jack]

I believe I have an excellent strategy for this game which I will reveal on page 14. Until then happy posting.

vote:robbnva

Last 2 games I've been in that zor's hosted he asked the mafia to confirm in the qt, not pm. robbn thinking he had to confirm in thread indicates that he didn't get a townie pm telling him to confirm by pm.

[Jack]

Often mafia are paying more attention to their qt at the start of the game than the thread.

[Jack]

I always confirm by both to be safe

hmmL?

[Jack]

My heart is content.

[Jack]

[Jack]

Scott brosius pm confirm but no post? Why not?

[Jack]

Congrats on revealing your scumbuddy.

[Jack]

fos:friend

Congrats on revealing your scumbuddy.

you don't know if anyone has revealed anything.

You just confessed to being mafia.

##Vote:Robbnva

[Jack]

Figuratively speaking of course.

[Jack]

Who can spot the scum-thinking in post 31?

[Jack]

@Jack: Deflection, hesitance in the RVS, not acknowledging your argument, etc
.

Hmm, I wasn't thinking of any of that.

[Jack]

Oh friend you are your harsh words, you know i am pro scum hunting, im just anti scum

vote robbnva please

[Jack]

Nevermind, don't vote him.

[Jack]

@ jack, why is he scummy?

Because he got a scum role pm and is thus playing like scum instead of like town. Why else would someone be scummy

[Jack]

On second thought, don't pick me. That was my guess.

Ok, I pick yabbaguy instead.



data has confirmed without posting as well, scum points++

[Jack]

How would you describe your meta? It doesn't matter what I tell you my meta is. Meta is something that others have to build for themselves.
Is there an alignment you prefer to play as? Yes.
Do you have previous experience with any of the players here? Yes.

lol

[Jack]

drmyshotty is in 10 games at the moment?

[Jack]

I have oppinion on rob, but the thing about the first one is, that everyone should have gotten the same ending to their pm just a dif beggining

You believe the scum pm says "confirm by pm" in it?

[Jack]

why wouldnt it?

Do you believe it does?

[Jack]

It's not clear why drmyshotty is confidant that the scum pm included "confirm by pm"...especially when I clearly stated that zoraster has not included such in multiple previous games.

[Jack]

HMMMMMMMMMM

[Jack]

also

fos:scott brosius

for something I'll check back on later.

[Jack]

sorry jack i read that wrong, all of what you saif now makes sense

I don't beliiiiieeeeve you

[Jack]

@freind: I'll dig em up

shottyzik is clear scum though. Even more than robbn

##vote:drmyshottyizsik

We might as well quicklynch before any more scum come in and try and get town cred by bussing

3 more votes

[Jack]

he is saying that rob confirmed in thread because mafia's pm's dont say to confirm by pm, and it makes sense

You also confirmed in thread

[Jack]

2 more votes

[Jack]

ON THE FIRST DAY OF CHRISTMAS MY TRUE LOVE GAVE TO ME
A MAFIOSO CAUGHT ON PAGE THREE

[Jack]

Day 1 Vote Count

RedCoyote ( 0 )
yabbaguy ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
Data ( 0 )
Haschel Cedricson ( 1 ) data
Friend ( 0 )
caelum ( 0 )
Robbnva ( 0 )
cateraction ( 0 )
drmyshottyizsik ( 4 ) scott brosius jack friend haschel cedricson
Scott Brosius ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 6 ) RedCoyote yabbaguy caelum robbnva cateraction drmyshottyizsik
Total Votes ( 11 )
Deadline: September 7th at 23:00 EDT
With 11 total votes, 6 needed to lynch.

doesn't rhyme.

[Jack]

[Jack]

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE FIVE
IF DRSHOTTYSZIK IS STILL ALIVE
IF THE MAFIA HAS STILL SURVIVED THEY MAY FIND

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SIX
THE SCUM IS STIL DRMYSHOTTYSZIK
IN THE WHOLE GAME HIS PLAY IS SO BAD
THE TOWN SHOULD JUST QUICKLYNCH THE LAD

IN THE GAME WHITE FLAG MAFIA PAGE SEVEN
Right, I'm done with this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNM2K8cmU8

##unvote

While I was searching through my picture library it appears that drmyshotty arrived at L-1. I do not believe a quicklynch is advisable at this time.

[Jack]

I've listened to that song like 5 times now.

[Jack]

quick lynching is pro town

[Jack]

quick lynching is pro town

WTF I SAY WE LYNCH THIS GUY!!!!!!

Like, right now?

[Jack]

In this game a quicklynch would have told us more than a day of talking will.

that isn't true actually, the more people talk day one, the more we have to read over later in the game once we finally catch mafia. Once the first mafia is exposed, it is sometimes quite easy to spot the relationships between the mafia members (not always of course but most of the time I have been able to)

Quantity is not quality. I'd rather see people's posts

in the context of someone being quicklynched

than otherwise. For example you drop a comment about mafia strategy, but ignore the wagon!!!!

[Jack]

EBWOP: More later.

buuuuulll comment now

[Jack]

I think the doc genuinely misunderstood Jack's observation originally, and then, upon clarification, changed his opinion.

I find 79 and 82 to be completely unbelievable. Read it in the context of drshotty-scum thinking he's been caught having inside knowledge of the mafia role pm and backtracking to save himself. He votes robbn for confirming in thread even though he did the same thing...it's not like he made a genuine mistake.

[Jack]

There's such a thing as garbage information. Also, shorter days help the town by keeping everyone interested, keeping the game fresh, and not providing a bunch of clutter that's impossible to reread.

Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!) 1 ... 79, 80, 81
Teleportation Mafia Universe TWO (TOWN WINS) 1 ... 28, 29, 30

[Jack]

I've posted it twice before. Both were overly lengthy, overly wordy games. Scum won both.

[Jack]

Great you fucking hammered me, great job lynching town everybody!
/blah go town

Ahh, this game just keeps on giving.

[Jack]

##unvote, vote: RedCoyote

[Jack]

here was the last vote count, so like it was said already, I did not. also d1 lynch a nilla townie and not outing a power role is actually not THAT horrible.

Do you think we d1 lynched a nilla townie???

[Jack]

It wasn't the hammer. DMSIS is

not

smart enough to pretend to be hammered and say "welp I'm town" as scum.

That's exactly what he did though...I was laughing about it.

[Jack]

I seriously doubt that, tbh. I've played with DMSIS.

But why do you doubt it? I don't find it the least bit out of line with his play so far.

@drmyshotty: mind giving us a rundown of what you think of all the players so far?

Scott is posting in other games.

[Jack]

I doubt it because of his IQ. That gambit takes thought.

PEDIT: See above.

Why do you think it takes thought? That doesn't jive with my experience...it's a fairly basic tactic.

drmyshotty, have you ever seen scum pull a gambit where they acted like they had been lynched even though they hadn't?

[Jack]

Have you seen a VI pull that gambit?

I have seen VI's do all kinds of things. Soft claiming watcher day 1 as scum watcher...trying a "I just replaced in, should I roleclaim before I read I've found it makes people trust me" gambit...moreover, I was scumpartners with a VI seeming player, our qt ended up 500+ posts, he frequently suggested gambits.

This one was a bad gambit--because it was obvious.

[Jack]

I'll start by weighing in on the fascinating players at the moment.

@Friend: I'm going to say quite the opposite. I'm gonna say that dr isn't smart enough to realize that doing this sort of "bah I got hammered" gambit is blatantly obvious.

This exactly.

The thing is the way he said it didn't seem forced IMO.

This oppositeofexactly.

Also, he was on top of the votecount earlier "watch out guys I'm L-2" etc

[Jack]

lol. At least twice I saw that cloudocean had posted in one of the subforums and was like "why hasn't he posted in our game??" and then checked the list and realized he wasn't playing, oh those unmemorable c-names.

[Jack]

Scott is scummy

[Jack]

WTF is that and what is it supposed to mean?

I tell you once I get my internet connection back.

[Jack]

OHHHH... OHH... AWWWWW- GROSS!

*shields eyes*

...why?!?!?

The incongruity made my eyes explode.

In mafia games you have to shield your eyes by keeping them half closed.

[Jack]

@drmyshotty: mind giving us a rundown of what you think of all the players so far?

[Jack]

Actually dms, just pick one player at random and do a writeup on them with a few details and post numbers mentioned.

[Jack]

Wow, yet another game I am called dumb or vi, guess I need to change my play style

I like your play

[Jack]

replaaaaaacements, say something!

[Jack]

We totally should have quicklynched.

[Jack]

what the hell. I was pumped for that lynch but that's not what I was thinking it would look like

[Jack]

hmm scum do have daytalk though

[Jack]

robb is prob scum.

red could be scum.

scott, cloud, and wisteria are in limbo.

[Jack]

basically robbs play yesterday is him knowing drmyshotty is innocent, but wanting the lynch to go through. You can see the conflict.

Red's play reminds me of something I pulled day 1 in greek

[Jack]

##vote:robb

[Jack]

Seriously, 2 more votes and lets make the mafia no-kill.

[Jack]

Even if the mafia do check in, they could help us narrow it down by killing.

[Jack]

but I won't throw down for Robb like I was doing for the doc.

THAT'S CAUSE HE WAS TOWN AND YOU DIDN'T WANT TO QUICKLYNCH TOWN, YOU DON'T MIND QUICK-BUSSING THOUGH

[Jack]

It took red like 20 minutes to write that post by the way. Ignore his excuses. We can deal with him tomorrow.

[Jack]

hammer hammer hammer!

[Jack]

I think that question is answered in the rules.

But zoraster lives in CA so it might not be an issue.

If there's no kill we say "thanks red" and lynch him.

[Jack]

There was scum trying to quicklynch the doc, no doubt in my mind.

How many and which people are the questions.

princess bride we pushed the SK wagon to a quicklynch, no scum on the wagon whatsoever. We caught another scum for dancing around the wagon like robb did. Scum aren't particularly drawn to quicklynch wagons.

[Jack]

##Vote:RedCoyote

3 MORE VOTES

[Jack]

so am I really in the minority here? lynching a nilla townie is not considered an acceptable loss on day 1?

No, what your saying is actually very logical. The way you say it, however, could probably use a little more nuance.

and although I'm only so-so on Robb, his pattern of voting yesterday was downright miserable.

[Jack]

Robb and Data are the first choices to come to mind, although Wisteria's missing that it was L-1 seems odd in light of the fact that Robb's vote was literally the post before hers and was made over an hour before her post so she shouldn't have missed it.

Wisteria, have you played with drmyshottyizsik before? Your use of the phrase "policy lynch" suggest you have but your post history suggests otherwise.

basically robbs play yesterday is him knowing drmyshotty is innocent, but wanting the lynch to go through. You can see the conflict.

My thoughts exactly.

##Vote: Robbvna

HMMMMMMMMMM

Upon further review, although Robbnva has handled himself poorly, Jack's initial case has a flawed premise. In Caught in the Crossfire, zoraster had the Mafia confirm in the thread. In http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ance Mafia, zoraster had the Mafia confirm via PM. I'm not finding any games where the Mafia had to confirm in a QT, but I know search on this site is a bit weird when you start delving into the archives, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

HMMMMMMMMMM

##vote:Haschel

[Jack]

EITHER ONE IS FINE WITH ME

[Jack]

I will have to go read that post

what is up with the damn interogation anyway

you don't like my view on lynching a vt being "safe" fine, but that is how I was taught to play.

hmm rereading I was going to give haschel town points for pushing robb on his shotty stance. But the line:

"what is up with the damn interogation anyway"

makes me wonder here

scum do have daytalk though. It seems like a bad move for haschel to push his scumbuddy on his weakest part

##unvote

I'll come back to this thread

[Jack]

Scott and cloudocean are big holes of nothing of course.

##vote:RedCoyote

Ignore the diversion above.

[Jack]

I believe I have an excellent strategy for this game which I will reveal on page 14. Until then happy posting.

IT IS NOW

I guess I'll cut out the caps since red was a mislynch.

My strategy was that on page 14 (which I was figuring would still be day 1 but no matter), we would drop everything and lynch a lurker. Because there is huge motivation for scum to lurk in this game, a game where they are harshly penalized for connections.

Therefore scott and cloudocean are scum.

##Vote:Scott Brosius

Scum can quickhammer if he's innocent, but I consider this game a test of quicklynching as a town strategy.

[Jack]

Scott was on earlier, he posted once. cloud really is scum too of course.

[Jack]

Also, in retrospect I wonder if RedCoyote's best friend was docmyshottyizsik. He really should have claimed if that were the case.

That's what I first thought, if it was that's pretty bad, considering we lynched doc and one of my main reasons for lynching red was that he staid off of doc but got on robb.

[Jack]

Sigh. Oh well, it was fun.

[Jack]

We lynched the wrong lurker, you were right haschel.

[Jack]

Well the thing is, even with the quicklynching, we got a chance to pick the mafioso out of 3 players, 2 of which were scum...

But yeah, probably should have gone slower the last two days, it was a nice experiment anyway.

[Jack]

Oh and by the way

*drumroll* ....................................... drmyshottyizsik was RedCoyote's known innocent.

Arrrg, really? That really did kill us. Mislynch of drms + mislynch of red since he acted so weird about it. He should have claimed it in his first post, lol.

Yeah, unfortunately I'm not sure this game really tested the mechanic that much. That said, I think it's pretty promising. I'm not sure I'd run another theme with it, but I think it'd certainly be up for use as a constituent mechanic to a theme game (i.e. only part of the theme) or even potentially an open game.

I think the mechanic was really great.

But you chose a terrible setting for the experiment.

Well our only problem was being a bit too eager the last two days.

I was thinking going into it that the town pushing for quick lynches would be a good strategy (I think it is in general). Yes you don't really want short days. What you do want is

live

wagons--wagons that could go all the way. That really tells you much more about the game.

[Jack]

Looking over my completed games, I see 5 or 6 that the town lost due to not pushing hard after some lynches...but the day one "quicklynch push" style of this game was much more productive than the next few days of pushing. Impatience bad.

[Jack]

But the point is that you'll get someone who has no chance but to passionately defend or die.

RedCoyote claiming post 0 wouldn't be a terrible idea- but isn't exactly confirmable since such a claim could be made by scum very, very easily.

If the scum were in the ardently active players, WIFOMing the lurkers by no-killing might've disoriented the game, too. That's why quicklynching can't really narrow the pool down as verifiably as you'd like it to.

I wasn't really trying to prevent the mafia kill so much...more like, if I start a wagon on red, and scott and cloud get on, then he's probably town...

[Jack]

I wasn't really trying to prevent the mafia kill so much...more like, if I start a wagon on red, and scott and cloud get on, then he's probably town...

Purely because scum can't buss in that situation--since the town has set up a standard of actually pushing the lynches through to the end. In slow games, scum can casually buss knowing it likely won't take off or if it does it can easily die over the next two weeks of low activity.

[Jack]

The main difficulty in trying to use connections this game was that 2 of the mafia never started and had to be replaced, and when they had their buddy had incriminated himself in a big way so they both came in calling him scum.

[Jack]

btw in my honest opinion, town listening to Jack is the reason why you lost, he was such a loose cannon in this game, he basically pushed every lynch. such a shame he was just a nilla townie and not a traitor, thanks for the win Jack

I'm like brett favre robbn, a gunslinger, you can't play mafia well unless you're just havin fun out there.

[Jack]

Although this is the fastest game I have ever played

if only I read my role pm closely, I would not have confirmed in the thread and would have been off jack's radar

I made up all the stuff about zoraster's scum pm's, as haschel and red spotted.

You dropped some big scum tells that page though.




Personally I absolutely love instantaneous night.

[Jack]

The goal was not quicklynch per se..except on the last day where I was horribly impatient due to (I'm guessing) having had to wait around for two hours in another game to quickhammer for a scum win.

The goal was "live lynches" so that scum absolutely can't buss--it very much as to do with the mechanic of the game.

I forgot about the dead town players who would be watching though, it must have been aggravating, I apologize for that.

[Jack]

Ideally on the day red was lynched, I would have voted, and haschel, and it would have looked like a full speed ahead quicklynch. Then if cloud or scott had willingly hopped on it would have been pretty revealing. cloud did end up revealing himself as scum that day anyway, unfortunately with it was with his awkward hammer vote. Really should have gone with him the last day.

[Jack]

Ideally on the day red was lynched, I would have voted, and haschel, and it would have looked like a full speed ahead quicklynch. Then if cloud or scott had willingly hopped on it would have been pretty revealing. cloud did end up revealing himself as scum that day anyway, unfortunately with it was with his awkward hammer vote. Really should have gone with him the last day.

I'm still not sure I see it. If scott had voted for Red, what would that have shown?

Why would scum put his buddy 1 vote from losing the game?